Physicians speak out on health care bill

[broncofan7]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6563705.html

Physicians jammed a town hall meeting in The Woodlands on Thursday, expressing fears about the cost and effectiveness of a health care reform bill that could come up for a vote in Congress as early as September.

U.S. Rep. Kevin Brady, R-The Woodlands, hosted the meeting attended by about 90 physicians at Memorial Hermann Hospital-The Woodlands.

“The bottom line is that doctors don't want socialized medicine — another flawed health care system like Medicare. They don't believe it will lower the costs or improve quality,” Brady said. “Medicare is already going bankrupt and not quality care. It also shifts medical costs onto other paying customers. It needs to be fixed first.”

The bill is designed to insure 94 percent of all Americans (excluding those covered by Medicare, which kicks in at age 65) and would cost an estimated $1.5 trillion over 10 years. The revenue to pay for it would come from $544 billion over the next decade in income taxes on single people making more than $280,000 annually and couples making more than $350,000 annually; $37 billion in business taxes; $500 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid; and sizable penalties paid by individuals and employers who don't obtain coverage.

“I am very concerned about what this will cost us in terms of dollars,” said Dr. William Parker, the chief medical officer where the meeting was held. “Before this week, they did not tell us any details of the plan. We've had too little time to read, digest and discuss something that will be such a major overhaul of the health care system.”

U.S. Rep. Gene Green, a Democrat who represents a blue-collar area from Baytown to Denver Harbor east of Houston, has held four meetings on the health care plan and received mixed reviews.

“There seems to be an organized Republican effort to have people come to a Democrat's town meeting and dominate the discussions,” Green said. “Some have admitted they don't live in my area. This has never happened to me before.”

He plans to hold more meetings and only admit those who live in his district. Green said many citizens seem to have misconceptions about the plan. He said it will be a boost for his lower-income district, which has many more uninsured residents than The Woodlands.

“This plan will provide health care for 223,000 of the 243,000 who have no health care plans in my district,” he said,

cindy.horswell@chron.com
Comments

[Rohirrim]

Not surprising. The AMA has been the lead organization killing health care reform in this country since Truman.

[Broncojef]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6563705.html

Physicians jammed a town hall meeting in The Woodlands on Thursday, expressing fears about the cost and effectiveness of a health care reform bill that could come up for a vote in Congress as early as September.

U.S. Rep. Kevin Brady, R-The Woodlands, hosted the meeting attended by about 90 physicians at Memorial Hermann Hospital-The Woodlands.

“The bottom line is that doctors don't want socialized medicine — another flawed health care system like Medicare. They don't believe it will lower the costs or improve quality,” Brady said. “Medicare is already going bankrupt and not quality care. It also shifts medical costs onto other paying customers. It needs to be fixed first.”

The bill is designed to insure 94 percent of all Americans (excluding those covered by Medicare, which kicks in at age 65) and would cost an estimated $1.5 trillion over 10 years. The revenue to pay for it would come from $544 billion over the next decade in income taxes on single people making more than $280,000 annually and couples making more than $350,000 annually; $37 billion in business taxes; $500 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid; and sizable penalties paid by individuals and employers who don't obtain coverage.

“I am very concerned about what this will cost us in terms of dollars,” said Dr. William Parker, the chief medical officer where the meeting was held. “Before this week, they did not tell us any details of the plan. We've had too little time to read, digest and discuss something that will be such a major overhaul of the health care system.”

U.S. Rep. Gene Green, a Democrat who represents a blue-collar area from Baytown to Denver Harbor east of Houston, has held four meetings on the health care plan and received mixed reviews.

“There seems to be an organized Republican effort to have people come to a Democrat's town meeting and dominate the discussions,” Green said. “Some have admitted they don't live in my area. This has never happened to me before.”

He plans to hold more meetings and only admit those who live in his district. Green said many citizens seem to have misconceptions about the plan. He said it will be a boost for his lower-income district, which has many more uninsured residents than The Woodlands.

“This plan will provide health care for 223,000 of the 243,000 who have no health care plans in my district,” he said,

cindy.horswell@chron.com
Comments

Why would anyone want to spend 8-12 years of their life to become physician and have the government and lefties call them evil for wanting to make money. 80% of Americans are happy with their health care system and the quality of care we are afforded currently. Destroying the entire system in place because a minority group wants coverage makes no sense. if any one of you got cancer tomorrow would you rather get treatment here in America or go to a country with socialized medicine.

[broncofan7]

Why would anyone want to spend 8-12 years of their life to become physician and have the government and lefties call them evil for wanting to make money. 80% of Americans are happy with their health care system and the quality of care we are afforded currently. Destroying the entire system in place because a minority group wants coverage makes no sense. if any one of you got cancer tomorrow would you rather get treatment here in America or go to a country with socialized medicine.

The sheep will not see it that way until it affects them or someone they love--and by then it will be TOO late. All they have to do is look at mortality rates for cancer patients in Europe Vs the US

[Rohirrim]

Destroying the entire system? Pleeze. Get off the Limbaugh tit.

I wonder why Obama keeps saying over and over and over, "If you like the coverage you have now, keep it. Nothing is going to change. Nobody is going to take that away from you."

I guess he's lying.

[Garcia Bronco]

Not surprising. The AMA has been the lead organization killing health care reform in this country since Truman.

I noticed you didn't disagree with what was quoted in bold.

[Garcia Bronco]

I wonder why Obama keeps saying over and over and over, "If you like the coverage you have now, keep it. Nothing is going to change. Nobody is going to take that away from you."

I guess he's lying.

He is lying in the sense that if you lose your existing coverage then you have to use the government healthcare plan.

[Rohirrim]

The sheep will not see it that way until it affects them or someone they love--and by then it will be TOO late. All they have to do is look at mortality rates for cancer patients in Europe Vs the US

I think there's a pretty big argument to me made regarding just who the "sheep" are. I like the old lady that stands up screaming about "socialism" and then shouts, "Nobody better touch my Medicare." :rofl:

Talk about sheep.

[TailgateNut]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6563705.html

Physicians jammed a town hall meeting in The Woodlands on Thursday, expressing fears about the cost and effectiveness of a health care reform bill that could come up for a vote in Congress as early as September.

U.S. Rep. Kevin Brady, R-The Woodlands, hosted the meeting attended by about 90 physicians at Memorial Hermann Hospital-The Woodlands.

“The bottom line is that doctors don't want socialized medicine — another flawed health care system like Medicare. They don't believe it will lower the costs or improve quality,” Brady said. “Medicare is already going bankrupt and not quality care. It also shifts medical costs onto other paying customers. It needs to be fixed first.”

The bill is designed to insure 94 percent of all Americans (excluding those covered by Medicare, which kicks in at age 65) and would cost an estimated $1.5 trillion over 10 years. The revenue to pay for it would come from $544 billion over the next decade in income taxes on single people making more than $280,000 annually and couples making more than $350,000 annually; $37 billion in business taxes; $500 billion in cuts to Medicare and Medicaid; and sizable penalties paid by individuals and employers who don't obtain coverage.

“I am very concerned about what this will cost us in terms of dollars,” said Dr. William Parker, the chief medical officer where the meeting was held. “Before this week, they did not tell us any details of the plan. We've had too little time to read, digest and discuss something that will be such a major overhaul of the health care system.”

U.S. Rep. Gene Green, a Democrat who represents a blue-collar area from Baytown to Denver Harbor east of Houston, has held four meetings on the health care plan and received mixed reviews.

“There seems to be an organized Republican effort to have people come to a Democrat's town meeting and dominate the discussions,” Green said. “Some have admitted they don't live in my area. This has never happened to me before.”

He plans to hold more meetings and only admit those who live in his district. Green said many citizens seem to have misconceptions about the plan. He said it will be a boost for his lower-income district, which has many more uninsured residents than The Woodlands.

“This plan will provide health care for 223,000 of the 243,000 who have no health care plans in my district,” he said,

cindy.horswell@chron.com
Comments


For those of you old enough: Gomer would say "SERPRIISE, SERPRIISE, SERPRIISE".

[Rohirrim]

He is lying in the sense that if you lose your existing coverage then you have to use the government healthcare plan.

Rather than have nothing and go to the ER? Good. Just that alone would lower overall costs dramatically. Do you know what happens to somebody who loses their job and their coverage now? They are offered COBRA. You know how much COBRA costs? You're not going to buy in on UI, I'll tell you that. So what do people do? They throw the dice and carry no coverage. Food and shelter come before insurance, obviously. There are millions of Americans in that boat right now. If one of them gets sick, you and I are going to pay for their trip to the ER, and anything else that comes after that. I think it would be cheaper to get them insurance.

[TailgateNut]

Why would anyone want to spend 8-12 years of their life to become physician and have the government and lefties call them evil for wanting to make money. 80% of Americans are happy with their health care system and the quality of care we are afforded currently. Destroying the entire system in place because a minority group wants coverage makes no sense. if any one of you got cancer tomorrow would you rather get treatment here in America or go to a country with socialized medicine.


"A minority group wants coverage"??? You got this bit o' disinfo where???

I currently have great insurance coverage, but I am not stupid enough to think that my premiums do not assist in paying for those who use the system without coverage. It will only divy up the funding across the board.

I'm not one bit SEPRISED that Physicians would speak out against a bill which might lower their giant salaries. They do deserve to be rewarded for their studies and professionalism, but a line needs to be drawn for them, for Pharmaceuticals and for the real culprits, the Insurance giants.

[TailgateNut]

Rather than have nothing and go to the ER? Good. Just that alone would lower overall costs dramatically. Do you know what happens to somebody who loses their job and their coverage now? They are offered COBRA. You know how much COBRA costs? You're not going to buy in on UI, I'll tell you that. So what do people do? They throw the dice and carry no coverage. Food and shelter come before insurance, obviously. There are millions of Americans in that boat right now. If one of them gets sick, you and I are going to pay for their trip to the ER, and anything else that comes after that. I think it would be cheaper to get them insurance.

Some of these dillwads feel the same about those without insurance as the victims of Katrina. **** 'em, it's not my problem, until becomes their problem/ hits home.

[broncofan7]

Destroying the entire system? Pleeze. Get off the Limbaugh tit.

I wonder why Obama keeps saying over and over and over, "If you like the coverage you have now, keep it. Nothing is going to change. Nobody is going to take that away from you."

I guess he's lying.

HE IS---WAKE UP. Good grief......

Here it IS IN HIS OWN WORDS

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WAKE UP!!!!!!!

[broncofan7]

I think there's a pretty big argument to me made regarding just who the "sheep" are. I like the old lady that stands up screaming about "socialism" and then shouts, "Nobody better touch my Medicare." :rofl:

Talk about sheep.

there is no argument

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[Rohirrim]

I noticed you didn't disagree with what was quoted in bold.

What, this bit?:
“The bottom line is that doctors don't want socialized medicine — another flawed health care system like Medicare. They don't believe it will lower the costs or improve quality,” Brady said. “Medicare is already going bankrupt and not quality care. It also shifts medical costs onto other paying customers. It needs to be fixed first.”

If Medicare is so lousy, why are all these old folks standing up at town hall meetings shouting, "Don't you touch my Medicare!"

Anyway, here's why the insurance industry and the AMA are really opposed to Obama's plan: He's putting in cost controls that attack the fraud that is rampant in the system and also reducing waste. Doctors, hospitals and insurance companies make a whole lot of money overcharging on the Medicare system. It is rife with fraud. Obama's plan attacks their ability to do that in the future. Of course they squeal.

What really bankrupted Medicare was Bush's ridiculous prescription plan. THAT needs to be overhauled.

[broncofan7]

What, this bit?:
“The bottom line is that doctors don't want socialized medicine — another flawed health care system like Medicare. They don't believe it will lower the costs or improve quality,” Brady said. “Medicare is already going bankrupt and not quality care. It also shifts medical costs onto other paying customers. It needs to be fixed first.”

If Medicare is so lousy, why are all these old folks standing up at town hall meetings shouting, "Don't you touch my Medicare!"

Anyway, here's why the insurance industry and the AMA are really opposed to Obama's plan: He's putting in cost controls that attack the fraud that is rampant in the sytem and reducing waste. Doctors, hospitals and insurance companies make a whole lot of money overcharging on the Medicare system. It is rife with fraud. Obama's plan attacks their ability to do that in the future. Of course they squeal.

Please --there are practitioners ALL ACROSS this country who are refusing to see additional or even ANY Medicare patient's because the re-imbursement is so low...........Is there fraud? YES--but the majority of the fraud is being committed by medical entities/corporations and NOT individual physicians

[Broncojef]

Destroying the entire system? Pleeze. Get off the Limbaugh tit.

I wonder why Obama keeps saying over and over and over, "If you like the coverage you have now, keep it. Nothing is going to change. Nobody is going to take that away from you."

I guess he's lying.

Yeah all the health care providers have to do is compete with the guys making the rules in the halls of government right? If we played poker right now and I made all the rules how long would you continue to throw money at me until you quit? This is a power grab and a bad bill lomgterm for America. Believe whatever you want from Barry I don't trust him and don't want to put all of Americas healthcare underneath him. These guys wanting to run health care currently controlled the rules for the housing market Freddie and Fanny too guess that turned out well didn't it?

[Garcia Bronco]

Rather than have nothing and go to the ER? Good. Just that alone would lower overall costs dramatically. Do you know what happens to somebody who loses their job and their coverage now? They are offered COBRA. You know how much COBRA costs? You're not going to buy in on UI, I'll tell you that. So what do people do? They throw the dice and carry no coverage. Food and shelter come before insurance, obviously. There are millions of Americans in that boat right now. If one of them gets sick, you and I are going to pay for their trip to the ER, and anything else that comes after that. I think it would be cheaper to get them insurance.

You are missing the point. You cannot choose a private plan after leaving your existing one. You are forced to sign on with the government in the house version of the bill.

[Broncojef]

What, this bit?:
“The bottom line is that doctors don't want socialized medicine — another flawed health care system like Medicare. They don't believe it will lower the costs or improve quality,” Brady said. “Medicare is already going bankrupt and not quality care. It also shifts medical costs onto other paying customers. It needs to be fixed first.”

If Medicare is so lousy, why are all these old folks standing up at town hall meetings shouting, "Don't you touch my Medicare!"

Anyway, here's why the insurance industry and the AMA are really opposed to Obama's plan: He's putting in cost controls that attack the fraud that is rampant in the system and also reducing waste. Doctors, hospitals and insurance companies make a whole lot of money overcharging on the Medicare system. It is rife with fraud. Obama's plan attacks their ability to do that in the future. Of course they squeal.

What really bankrupted Medicare was Bush's ridiculous prescription plan. THAT needs to be overhauled.

I have no issue with change to healthcare if its done right. Why does such an important thing have to be crammed down our throat and signed before anyone reads their 1000+ page proposal. barry didn't even know how half of it worked and its his fricken bill. The folks screaming against this bill and for medicare have one thing in common they know what they'll get if these current idiots run things.

[Garcia Bronco]

What, this bit?:
“The bottom line is that doctors don't want socialized medicine — another flawed health care system like Medicare. They don't believe it will lower the costs or improve quality,” Brady said. “Medicare is already going bankrupt and not quality care. It also shifts medical costs onto other paying customers. It needs to be fixed first.”

If Medicare is so lousy, why are all these old folks standing up at town hall meetings shouting, "Don't you touch my Medicare!"

Anyway, here's why the insurance industry and the AMA are really opposed to Obama's plan: He's putting in cost controls that attack the fraud that is rampant in the system and also reducing waste. Doctors, hospitals and insurance companies make a whole lot of money overcharging on the Medicare system. It is rife with fraud. Obama's plan attacks their ability to do that in the future. Of course they squeal.

What really bankrupted Medicare was Bush's ridiculous prescription plan. THAT needs to be overhauled.


You still didn't refute that which was stated in bold in the OP.

[TailgateNut]

Is there fraud? YES--but the majority of the fraud is being committed by medical entities/corporations and NOT individual physicians

LOL Yep, those doctors aren't fleecing the system one iota.ROFL!

[Rohirrim]

Please --there are practitioners ALL ACROSS this country who are refusing to see additional or even ANY Medicare patient's because the re-imbursement is so low...........Is there fraud? YES--but the majority of the fraud is being committed by medical entities/corporations and NOT individual physicians

Then, they are cutting their own noses off to spite their faces. Every patient they refuse to see goes to the ER and costs continue to spiral upward. Think of this: Let's say tomorrow we cancel Medicaid and Medicare clear across the country? Boom. Gone. Everybody go find your own way. What would happen? There would a wildfire of failing hospitals sweeping across the country.

The paradigm shift this country needs to come to is the realization that you can't base a health care system on a "for-profit" model. It is self-defeating. A for-profit model leads you to care for the healthy and toss out the sick. There's no other way for it to successfully operate. And all those sick people you toss out go to the hospital anyway. So, your society has limited choices: Either place guards at the ER doors to kick out uninsured patients, or let the hospitals collapse, or find some way to fund treatment for the uninsured through taxation in order to keep hospitals operating. Take your pick.

[broncofan7]

Then, they are cutting their own noses off to spite their faces. Every patient they refuse to see goes to the ER and costs continue to spiral upward. Think of this: Let's say tomorrow we cancel Medicaid and Medicare clear across the country? Boom. Gone. Everybody go find your own way. What would happen? There would a wildfire of failing hospitals sweeping across the country.

The paradigm shift this country needs to come to is the realization that you can't base a health care system on a "for-profit" model. It is self-defeating. A for-profit model leads you to care for the healthy and toss out the sick. There's no other way for it to successfully operate. And all those sick people you toss out go to the hospital anyway. So, your society has limited choices: Either place guards at the ER doors to kick out uninsured patients, or let the hospitals collapse, or find some way to fund treatment for the uninsured through taxation in order to keep hospitals operating. Take your pick.

So 1st your position is : "guys, what are you so worked up about? Barry said that you can keep your own health insurance--you won't notice a difference--quit listening to those right-tard talking heads"

Now--after you heard BARRY IN HIS OWN WORDS

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...your position is : "Well, our system is failing anyway--WE NEED A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM THAT doesn't generate profit anyway......."

[Odysseus]

There are massive dollars being spent on misinformation. $40 million on one campaign alone. This is another case of where the liar with the most money makes the rules.

The healtcare system needs to be changed but it won't happen until something drastic happens and the liars are exposed. There isn't enough money out there to actually expose the corruption and bad politics involved in medicine.

That was a garbage even sponsored by a Republican on friendly territory. When are we going to see results from an event on neutral ground? Obama met with the AMA and spoke to doctors directly. Why isn't the results from that posted?

[Rohirrim]

So 1st your position is : "guys, what are you so worked up about? Barry said that you can keep your own health insurance--you won't notice a difference--quit listening to those right-tard talking heads"

Now--after you heard BARRY IN HIS OWN WORDS

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...your position is : "Well, our system is failing anyway--WE NEED A SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM THAT doesn't generate profit anyway......."

Sorry. Can't see vids at work. I'll check it out when I get home. Anyway, that's my position, not Obama's.

[broncofan7]

There are massive dollars being spent on misinformation. $40 million on one campaign alone. This is another case of where the liar with the most money makes the rules.

The healtcare system needs to be changed but it won't happen until something drastic happens and the liars are exposed. There isn't enough money out there to actually expose the corruption and bad politics involved in medicine.

That was a garbage even sponsored by a Republican on friendly territory. When are we going to see results from an event on neutral ground? Obama met with the AMA and spoke to doctors directly. Why isn't the results from that posted?

Since I know you won't take my word for it:

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/457214

Harold Pollack and Rahul Rajkumar: AMA doesn't speak for all doctors on health reform

Harold Pollack and Rahul Rajkumar — 7/05/2009 7:12 am

When President Barack Obama visited Chicago recently to discuss health care reform with the American Medical Association, his reception was polite but not entirely friendly. After weeks of behind-the-scenes courting by the White House, the AMA had just come out against a public health insurance plan -- something the administration hopes will be included in health care reform.
It's easy to understand why elected officials court the AMA. For decades, the powerful group has opposed, and sometimes helped to kill, important health care reform efforts. Although less powerful than it used to be, it remains America's largest and best-known physician organization. If you're trying to win over doctors and want to be seen by voters as genuinely reaching out, the AMA's convention remains a required visit.

But lawmakers should take note: The AMA does not speak for all physicians. In the battle for the soul of American medicine, the AMA is often on the wrong side. At least, it's not clearly on the right side of key contested issues in this year's health care reform debate. If lawmakers really want to reach out to the medical profession, if the media really want to understand what doctors believe, we have some advice: Stop treating the AMA as if it's the only game in town.

At last count, the AMA claimed about 245,000 members, a number that has declined in recent years. Of these, 195,000 are practicing physicians. That's only about 20 percent of all practicing physicians in the U.S. The same day that Obama spoke to the AMA, seven national organizations representing physicians, medical students, residents and interns held a news conference to support a public health insurance plan. Membership in these organizations totals 215,000, a significant number even though the groups probably have some overlapping membership. As AMA membership declines, these growing organizations arguably represent the future of the medical profession. Their views are more in touch with the American public, which, polls indicate, overwhelmingly supports providing citizens with the option to purchase public coverage.

In our view, the AMA is stuck in an old model of special-interest politics -- one that represents an increasingly narrow segment of the medical profession. The doctors we know express many worries. Sure, they care about their incomes, but they care about other things too that strongly affect the well-being of their patients.

The group with which we are affiliated, Doctors for America, along with others, is working to support health care reform that works. We support the need for reform that eliminates unnecessary testing and rewards high-quality care. Doctors for America and other organizations are trying to educate their thousands of physician-members and urge them to engage in the political debate.

Politicians in Washington have yet to recognize the growing power and the grass-roots legitimacy of these new voices in medical care. By and large, these organizations aren't given a seat at the table. They are just beginning to receive invitations to meetings in Washington. The media don't generally write about them.

We don't know precisely how many doctors support a public-plan option. Polls indicate broad support among doctors for universal coverage and for other progressive measures, and even the AMA has pulled back slightly from its outright rejection of a public plan. A sizable minority of physicians actually supports a single-payer plan.

From their vantage point on the front lines of American medical care, doctors see firsthand the need for reform. They see patients facing financial hardship because of medical bills. They see others who forgo needed treatments they can't afford. Doctors work within a fragmented system that makes it increasingly hard to provide the high-quality, attentive and compassionate care they were trained to give. They see their profession facing increasing public skepticism, fueled by accounts of wasteful practice patterns and by their profession's frequent and frank stance as a special-interest group.

Of course lawmakers should consult the AMA. But they should stop putting the group on a pedestal above other doctor organizations. Perhaps if politicians did so, the AMA might make greater efforts to move beyond its narrow stance as a special-interest group.

Doctors are right to worry about the economic impact that reform will have on their profession. They have every right to lobby lawmakers in the same spirit Archer Daniels Midland lobbies on ethanol. Some such lobbying is natural and justified. Over the years, though, the AMA has sometimes forgotten that other values matter too. As thousands of doctors are starting to realize, that's a poor long-term strategy for a great profession that so greatly benefits from the public's trust.

Rahul Rajkumar is a physician at Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston. Harold Pollack teaches social service administration at the University of Chicago, where he chairs the Center for Health Administration Studies. This column appeared first in the Los Angeles Times.

[Odysseus]

That was an interesting piece but there are three things that I was looking for.

1. What was the general reaction to the AMA's response?
2. What was the Administrations take on the AMA response?
3. Who is really for or against this and why?

These are simple questions but it gets sidelined by people who claim to be authority when they are in fact not.

Your biggest problem is your cut out the information that you want people to read and try to ignore the rest of it:

The group with which we are affiliated, Doctors for America, along with others, is working to support health care reform that works. We support the need for reform that eliminates unnecessary testing and rewards high-quality care. Doctors for America and other organizations are trying to educate their thousands of physician-members and urge them to engage in the political debate.

Politicians in Washington have yet to recognize the growing power and the grass-roots legitimacy of these new voices in medical care. By and large, these organizations aren't given a seat at the table. They are just beginning to receive invitations to meetings in Washington. The media don't generally write about them.

We don't know precisely how many doctors support a public-plan option. Polls indicate broad support among doctors for universal coverage and for other progressive measures, and even the AMA has pulled back slightly from its outright rejection of a public plan. A sizable minority of physicians actually supports a single-payer plan.

[kappys]

The AMA has certainly pissed away my support. The AMA is infested with high pay specialists. The completely unbalanced pay scales for doctors in the US with regards to primary care or thinking reimbursements versus procedural specialty reimbursements(i.e. cardiologists, gastroenterologists, ENT surgeons, orthopedics, etc.) is a result of the AMA consulting with medicare/medicaid services to help set payments. They've driven out their own base of physicians meaning any doctor that thinks for a living and are populated by overpaid procedure junkies. They are now reaping what they've sown as their support continues to slide away. Not surprisingly this organization that is dominated by the highest paid physicians is against a public plan that will actually help people. I for one am not shocked.

I have also seen some polls that state a majority of physicians favor some public option, too lazy to look for the links right now.

[Bob]

Not surprising. The AMA has been the lead organization killing health care reform in this country since Truman.

Yes, first black list them, then beat the hell out of them. You ever hear of the Brown Shirts?

How many are you going to put on the list, of the bad guys? Most of those those who understand healthcare are against it -- those opposing, are those who want more power over our lives...and are willing to take from those that earn, and give it to those they need for muscle.

After folks in Acorn and SEIU beat up enough folks -- someone will fight back -- then the media will run with it...just watch the traitors to our heritage act -- very predictable.

Here is another poll -- that is a few days old, I bet we are even higher now:

53% Now Oppose Congressional Health Care Reform
Wednesday, July 22, 2009
The health care reform legislation working its way through Congress has lost support over the past month. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 44% of U.S. voters are at least somewhat in favor of the reform effort while 53% are at least somewhat opposed.
Today’s 44% level of support is down from 46% two weeks ago, and 50% in late June.
Opposition has grown from 45% in late June to 49% two weeks ago and 53% today.
As in earlier surveys, those with strong opinions are more likely to oppose the plan rather than support it. The current numbers: 24% strongly favor and 37% strongly oppose.

[Rohirrim]

Yes, first black list them, then beat the hell out of them. You ever hear of the Brown Shirts?

How many are you going to put on the list, of the bad guys? Most of those those who understand healthcare are against it -- those opposing, are those who want more power over our lives...and are willing to take from those that earn, and give it to those they need for muscle.

After folks in Acorn and SEIU beat up enough folks -- someone will fight back -- then the media will run with it...just watch the traitors to our heritage act -- very predictable.

Here is another poll -- that is a few days old, I bet we are even higher now:

53% Now Oppose Congressional Health Care Reform
Wednesday, July 22, 2009
The health care reform legislation working its way through Congress has lost support over the past month. The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 44% of U.S. voters are at least somewhat in favor of the reform effort while 53% are at least somewhat opposed.
Today’s 44% level of support is down from 46% two weeks ago, and 50% in late June.
Opposition has grown from 45% in late June to 49% two weeks ago and 53% today.
As in earlier surveys, those with strong opinions are more likely to oppose the plan rather than support it. The current numbers: 24% strongly favor and 37% strongly oppose.

Sometimes, when you post, I picture in my mind some middle aged, naked, bald guy punching himself out in a phone booth. It's a ****ing spectacle. That's how much sense you bring to the table. :rofl:

[gunns]

I have to wonder if these doctors concerns are more about what they will lose, rather than the costs overall. I have excellent insurance but over the years the quality of healthcare from doctors has drastically declined. I often know what's wrong while the Dr attempts to guess and runs up costs rather than listen to me. I am praying for this healthcare reform. I means the difference in years as far as me retiring. Medical is the only thing that has extended that date.

[Bob]

Sometimes, when you post, I picture in my mind some middle aged, naked, bald guy punching himself out in a phone booth. It's a ****ing spectacle. That's how much sense you bring to the table. :rofl:

I imagine that turns you on...

But to each their own, I wont attempt to regulate your thoughts, like some are inclined to do.

But again dismiss and deflect. Support is waning for another government power grab. In the poll above, it reflects waning support -- as folks listen to details, and teh words from those who might be calling the shots, we trust even less. IF both programs could exsist, I wonder how the dynamic would change -- but again Obama's own words tell me he only wants to eventually wreck the private option. In conservative states, we dont want more government getting involved -- and Blue Dogs are going to feel that wrath.

[Rohirrim]

I imagine that turns you on...

But to each their own, I wont attempt to regulate your thoughts, like some are inclined to do.

But again dismiss and deflect. Support is waning for another government power grab. In the poll above, it reflects waning support -- as folks listen to details, and teh words from those who might be calling the shots, we trust even less. IF both programs could exsist, I wonder how the dynamic would change -- but again Obama's own words tell me he only wants to eventually wreck the private option. In conservative states, we dont want more government getting involved -- and Blue Dogs are going to feel that wrath.

Do you ever wonder if Obama might be a Manchurian Candidate actually born in Kenya and then secretly schooled in some Indonesian madrassa to eventually pursue his path to the WH, turn this country socialist, and then surrender us over to the Muslims?

[TexanBob]

Destroying the entire system? Pleeze. Get off the Limbaugh tit.

I wonder why Obama keeps saying over and over and over, "If you like the coverage you have now, keep it. Nothing is going to change. Nobody is going to take that away from you."

I guess he's lying.

Yes, he's lying. Read the House bill. As soon as you make any change in coverage, you MUST take the government plan. Obama's own words before he became president reveal the plan. He *wants* single-payer (i.e. government monopoly) health care but he knows America doesn't want it so he has to sneak stealth language into the bill so that he can lie about it while knowing what the end result will be.

The bill is chock-full of similar landmines that, when you put it all together, becomes a single-payer tax-us-all pro-abortion, pro-euthenasia bureaucratic nightmare of a system.

But dupes like you will keep parroting the lies. That's just what the Lying Left is best at.

[Rohirrim]

Yes, he's lying. Read the House bill. As soon as you make any change in coverage, you MUST take the government plan. Obama's own words before he became president reveal the plan. He *wants* single-payer (i.e. government monopoly) health care but he knows America doesn't want it so he has to sneak stealth language into the bill so that he can lie about it while knowing what the end result will be.

The bill is chock-full of similar landmines that, when you put it all together, becomes a single-payer tax-us-all pro-abortion, pro-euthenasia bureaucratic nightmare of a system.

But dupes like you will keep parroting the lies. That's just what the Lying Left is best at.

Your more full of **** than a Christmas goose. :welcome:

I just watched a vid of Ronny Raygun back in the 60s warning that if we allow Medicare to pass someday poor Ronnie will be telling his grandkids what it was like to be free in America, before we turned socialist. Yeah, Medicare turned us all into Cubans. Ha!

I guess you rightwads have been doing this fear mongering for quite a while.

[TexanBob]

Anyway, here's why the insurance industry and the AMA are really opposed to Obama's plan: He's putting in cost controls that attack the fraud that is rampant in the system and also reducing waste. Doctors, hospitals and insurance companies make a whole lot of money overcharging on the Medicare system. It is rife with fraud.

Oh, and we all know government is soooooo good at eliminating waste and fraud! Hilarious! :thumbsup:

If you want costs to go down, get the goddamn ambulance chasers out of the business. But the Democrats will never agree to that because the trial liars are among their biggest donors.

[TexanBob]

Yeah, Medicare turned us all into Cubans. Ha!



That's why Obama is here to finish the job. LOL

[Rohirrim]

Oh, and we all know government is soooooo good at eliminating waste and fraud! Hilarious! :thumbsup:

If you want costs to go down, get the goddamn ambulance chasers out of the business. But the Democrats will never agree to that because the trial liars are among their biggest donors.

Well, Clinton was pretty good at it (actually, Gore). Bush? Not so much.

I'm all for torte reform. Have been for a long time. But we have to separate out the lawyers who are gaming the system from those who represent patients who have been legitimately injured through negligence. You can't set up a system where doctors have carte blanche.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The AMA has certainly pissed away my support. The AMA is infested with high pay specialists. The completely unbalanced pay scales for doctors in the US with regards to primary care or thinking reimbursements versus procedural specialty reimbursements(i.e. cardiologists, gastroenterologists, ENT surgeons, orthopedics, etc.) is a result of the AMA consulting with medicare/medicaid services to help set payments. They've driven out their own base of physicians meaning any doctor that thinks for a living and are populated by overpaid procedure junkies. They are now reaping what they've sown as their support continues to slide away. Not surprisingly this organization that is dominated by the highest paid physicians is against a public plan that will actually help people. I for one am not shocked.

I have also seen some polls that state a majority of physicians favor some public option, too lazy to look for the links right now.


The AMA has turned into a group of lobbyists. Lobbyists keep afloat by taking care of the needs of their target politicians. I dont know a single physician that respects the AMA. Its a tool for some and a neiusance for others.

It is a cannibalistic beaureaucratic monster at this point.

As far as the procedure junkies...this is a big problem.

[kappys]

The AMA has turned into a group of lobbyists. Lobbyists keep afloat by taking care of the needs of their target politicians. I dont know a single physician that respects the AMA. Its a tool for some and a neiusance for others.

It is a cannibalistic beaureaucratic monster at this point.

As far as the procedure junkies...this is a big problem.

Well they have to lobby for someone, and they do. But as far as most physicians are concerned they pretty much lobby for procedure based specialists and against everyone else

[barryr]

It really is amazing to see the Bush whackers who were so upset the deficit was going up with Bush are now ok that Obama plans to do even worse about it and offer such stupid excuses for him. It really is all about which political party says or does something and it's ok or not ok depending on what party is responsible at the time.

According to this bill you will have to choose the government program if you don't have your own private insurance and I can see many companies dropping insurance coverage to save money and maybe hire more workers in the process, which would help the unemployment numbers at least.