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LetsGoBroncos
08-06-2009, 08:45 AM
Anyone else getting as frustrated with this as I am? It is known that his guaranteed money is going to be right at $12 million, so I don't believe it can be that difficult to structure the rest of the deal. Meanwhile he is losing VERY valuable time at camp right now, and I fear that by the time he really gets in a groove we will already be into week 5 or 6. Remember Darrell Scott at CU last year? Showed up a little late and out of shape and he never got on track.

Inkana7
08-06-2009, 08:49 AM
Lets all make a thread about our feelings.

Dagmar
08-06-2009, 08:50 AM
Crabtree contract continues to paralyze multiple picks

Posted by Mike Florio on August 6, 2009 8:24 AM ET
As the 49ers and receiver Michael Crabtree, the tenth overall pick in the 2009 draft, continue to basically stare at each other and say nothing, other teams and players are suffering the consequences.

Picks eight, nine, eleven, and twelve continue to be unsigned, due in large part to the absence of a deal between Crabtree and the 49ers.

And some big-name agents are among the waiting: Tom Condon and Ben Dogra at CAA, Dave Dunn and friends and Athletes First, and Joe Segal.

Condon and Dogra have Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno (No. 12). Dunn has Packers defensive lineman B.J. Raji (No. 9). And Segal has Bills defensive end Aaron Maybin (No. 11).

Given the possibility that Crabtree's agent, Eugene Parker, eventually will get the Niners to cave, it arguably makes sense to hold out the players drafted in the vicinity of Crabtree. As we've recently mentioned in connection with Jaguars tackle Eugene Monroe, the big-money windfall deals currently stretch to the seventh pick. If Crabtree and Parker can drag the large dollars all the way to No. 10, the guys picked just in front of him will benefit -- and the guys taken just after him might, too.

Meanwhile, there's no indication that Crabtree and the 49ers are any closer to a deal. There's a theory making the rounds that Parker might have promised Crabtree that he'd be a top-five pick, and that Parker's last-ditch effort to make good on that guarantee might be to get Crabtree paid as if he had been picked in that range.

Regardless of what happens next (and, frankly, given Crabtree's boast that he can run a 4.4 on crutches, we're not ruling out a decision to re-enter the draft in 2010), it's a huge mess. And while it could all end at any moment, there's no reason to think that that moment is coming any time soon.

misturanderson
08-06-2009, 08:50 AM
This is what happens when agents get involved, money overrides everything. It would be nice to see a player just say, "hey, I'm going to be rich anyway, just get the deal done. We know what people got last year and this year, no need to wait for the jackoff 2 picks higher than me to finally give in to the fact that he wasn't picked in the top 3."

cutthemdown
08-06-2009, 08:51 AM
just part of the game nowdays. Moreno a rb, they don't last long, its smart for him to get the best deal he can. With all the mini camps he knows whats going on with the offense. IMO it won't be that big of a deal but it keeps him from being named the starter that is for sure.

SoDak Bronco
08-06-2009, 08:53 AM
fingers crossed it ends today...

Mr. Elway
08-06-2009, 08:56 AM
Lets all make a thread about our feelings.

lol

Rulon Velvet Jones
08-06-2009, 08:56 AM
Why would his agent tell him he's a top-5 pick? I know he was wanting to reach for the stars, but that's just a ridiculous promise. And now, he's holding everything up. That asshole agent needs to cough up some of his own money to make up the difference from his ill-informed promise to his client.

Smiling Assassin27
08-06-2009, 08:58 AM
i'm feeling ambivalently flaccid about the whole thing...

get in soon, kno-kno...

UberBroncoMan
08-06-2009, 09:00 AM
I realize the NFL is a business, but if I was in Moreno's shoes I'd realize part of my livelihood is making an impact in training camp. I'd tell my agency they have till the end of the day to get me signed, and be on my way to Denver.

Tombstone RJ
08-06-2009, 09:01 AM
Crabtree contract continues to paralyze multiple picks

Posted by Mike Florio on August 6, 2009 8:24 AM ET
As the 49ers and receiver Michael Crabtree, the tenth overall pick in the 2009 draft, continue to basically stare at each other and say nothing, other teams and players are suffering the consequences.

Picks eight, nine, eleven, and twelve continue to be unsigned, due in large part to the absence of a deal between Crabtree and the 49ers.

And some big-name agents are among the waiting: Tom Condon and Ben Dogra at CAA, Dave Dunn and friends and Athletes First, and Joe Segal.

Condon and Dogra have Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno (No. 12). Dunn has Packers defensive lineman B.J. Raji (No. 9). And Segal has Bills defensive end Aaron Maybin (No. 11).

Given the possibility that Crabtree's agent, Eugene Parker, eventually will get the Niners to cave, it arguably makes sense to hold out the players drafted in the vicinity of Crabtree. As we've recently mentioned in connection with Jaguars tackle Eugene Monroe, the big-money windfall deals currently stretch to the seventh pick. If Crabtree and Parker can drag the large dollars all the way to No. 10, the guys picked just in front of him will benefit -- and the guys taken just after him might, too.

Meanwhile, there's no indication that Crabtree and the 49ers are any closer to a deal. There's a theory making the rounds that Parker might have promised Crabtree that he'd be a top-five pick, and that Parker's last-ditch effort to make good on that guarantee might be to get Crabtree paid as if he had been picked in that range.

Regardless of what happens next (and, frankly, given Crabtree's boast that he can run a 4.4 on crutches, we're not ruling out a decision to re-enter the draft in 2010), it's a huge mess. And while it could all end at any moment, there's no reason to think that that moment is coming any time soon.

If I was the 49ers I'd would not budge. Crabtree would sit out the whole season for all I care...

Beantown Bronco
08-06-2009, 09:03 AM
Why would his agent tell him he's a top-5 pick?

There was probably some team picking in the Top 5 that promised his agent that they would select him if he fell. Then they renegged on that promise.

Happens all the time.

Tombstone RJ
08-06-2009, 09:05 AM
Its really not all that complicated. All Moreno and his agent have to do is ad like 10% to whatever the 12th pick got last year and be done with it.

While I can understand the bottle neck effect that Crabtree is causing, if Moreno wanted to be in camp, he could be.

Chris
08-06-2009, 09:05 AM
From the sounds of it we'll be fine without Moreno since Buckhalter and Hillis (i know he's at FB) look good. Fine, not great.

cutthemdown
08-06-2009, 09:08 AM
If I was the 49ers I'd would not budge. Crabtree would sit out the whole season for all I care...

yeah but then they lose the pick and he goes back into draft. Would you want that if he was a Broncos player? I mean people mad about trading away a first for a really high 2nd rounder, imagine the furor over a lost top 10 pick for nothing.

Lolad
08-06-2009, 09:11 AM
just part of the game nowdays. Moreno a rb, they don't last long, its smart for him to get the best deal he can. With all the mini camps he knows whats going on with the offense. IMO it won't be that big of a deal but it keeps him from being named the starter that is for sure.

No he doesn't know whats going on with the offense. Haven't you read the camp reports about how lost Ayers is? He needs to get in immediately, or he will not start until week 8

55CrushEm
08-06-2009, 09:12 AM
Its really not all that complicated. All Moreno and his agent have to do is ad like 10% to whatever the 12th pick got last year and be done with it.

While I can understand the bottle neck effect that Crabtree is causing, if Moreno wanted to be in camp, he could be.

EXACTLY. Alot of these idiot college kids (not saying Moreno is one), don't seem to realize that THE AGENT WORKS FOR THEM.....not the other way around. Rather than sitting idly by, and allowing their agent to "run the show" and squeeze every nickel out of the team.....the player can (and should) say, "Listen, get me what is fair and reasonable. Don't let the team screw me.....and get the deal done in time for me to be in camp on time."

If I were Moreno, I'd say just that....."Get me 8-10% above last year's #12 pick.....as that is what is normal......and let's call it a day."

lostknight
08-06-2009, 09:14 AM
Anyone else getting as frustrated with this as I am? It is known that his guaranteed money is going to be right at $12 million, so I don't believe it can be that difficult to structure the rest of the deal. Meanwhile he is losing VERY valuable time at camp right now, and I fear that by the time he really gets in a groove we will already be into week 5 or 6. Remember Darrell Scott at CU last year? Showed up a little late and out of shape and he never got on track.


All I can say is that Hillis must be praying for Moreno to be out a bit longer, while he puts on all the flashy plays at camp.

broncofan2438
08-06-2009, 09:19 AM
Schefter thought it would end today. It would be nice to see him out at Invesco and he can showcase his stuff in front of a bunch of fans

cmhargrove
08-06-2009, 09:20 AM
No he doesn't know whats going on with the offense. Haven't you read the camp reports about how lost Ayers is? He needs to get in immediately, or he will not start until week 8

I honestly don't think this is the case at all.

The coaches already commented in the spring how well Moreno picked up the playbook, and his part in the offense. He was already right in the mix for the starting spot. Don't look for that to change.

If we get him next week, he will start down the depth chart, but has plenty of time to establish himself by week one. The preseason games will show what he's got.

Grumps
08-06-2009, 09:21 AM
Not really. I like Hillis getting a chance to show what he can do.

Mr. Elway
08-06-2009, 09:22 AM
From the sound of the camp reports we don't need him right away, with Buckhalter and Hillis both running very strong. It would be awesome if he came in and made a huge impact right away but the reality is, even if he signed before camp started he would probably be fighting for reps. We can afford to wait and I have no problem with it. Plus, I agree that if Moreno's agent really wanted him in, they could settle it today. This is about getting more money for the player, not about the front office trying to be cheap.

Broncosfreak_56
08-06-2009, 09:22 AM
Schefter thought it would end today. It would be nice to see him out at Invesco and he can showcase his stuff in front of a bunch of fans

I sure hope so. It would be cool to see his first practice.

Gcver2ver3
08-06-2009, 09:25 AM
i am frustrated actually...

i spend a lot of time checking sites hoping to read that he's finally signed, and i keep coming up empty...

our 1st preseason game is a week away...i'd like to see him in it and as others have mentioned, he's missing a lot of valuable practice time...

he could potentially be our best player on offense...i don't want to see this drag on any longer...we need to see this guy on the field...

crowebomber
08-06-2009, 09:27 AM
No he doesn't know whats going on with the offense. Haven't you read the camp reports about how lost Ayers is? He needs to get in immediately, or he will not start until week 8

The RB position might have the shortest learning curve (except for kickers and punters) because it relies so heavily on the player's natural talent. He'll be fine. Tatum came straight from the mall and played the same weekend.

Kaylore
08-06-2009, 09:30 AM
The RB position might have the shortest learning curve (except for kickers and punters) because it relies so heavily on the player's natural talent. He'll be fine. Tatum came straight from the mall and played the same weekend.

That's the good news. Ayers is in and he needed the extra practices more than any of the other rookies. Moreno won't need as many, but time is running out and he'll need to get in soon if he wants to be untilized much this season.

gyldenlove
08-06-2009, 09:33 AM
This strategy has been tried before, I believe the first case I heard of was Aaron Rodgers, the agent argued that he was in contention to be the 1st overall pick and should be paid more than his draft spot at 24 or however much it was would normaly require. The same thing repeated with Brady Quinn and Reggie Bush's people tried to argue that he should be paid as a number 1 overall since he had more talent than Mario Williams.

In the end I think all 3 cases ended up not leading to much.

Darrelle Revis had some success with breaking the scale, and now DHB in Oakland cracked it too, but those seem to be exceptions who take advantage of front offices that are not known for being among the best.

I don't think Crabtree will have much success, in the end I figure they will try to accomodate him by giving him some significant escalator clauses to make the numbers look bigger than they are.

I do understand that you don't want to give up on a bigger paycheck, but at some point you are just hurting yourself more. I think it is fair to say that by not being in camp for the first week Moreno may have lost a fairly significant number of carries this year which will impact his ability to reach performance bonuses. Hillis and Buckhalter have both been consistent and Torain has shown glimpses.

crowebomber
08-06-2009, 09:36 AM
That's the good news. Ayers is in and he needed the extra practices more than any of the other rookies. Moreno won't need as many, but time is running out and he'll need to get in soon if he wants to be untilized much this season.

Agreed and it's not like our stable of RBs have had a bad showing in training camp. At this point I think a lot of people would be just fine to have some combination of Hillis and Buckhalter along with Torian getting some carries. It's just like when someone goes out injured and someone else takes their job. He's not going to be lost out there at that position, but he's losing ground to other guys who are having a good camp.

s0phr0syne
08-06-2009, 09:38 AM
Its really not all that complicated. All Moreno and his agent have to do is ad like 10% to whatever the 12th pick got last year and be done with it.

While I can understand the bottle neck effect that Crabtree is causing, if Moreno wanted to be in camp, he could be.


Well, I'm not sure it's all being caused by Crabtree as much as the media would like us to buy into that. A big part of the problem is the Raiders contract with DHB--it guarantees so much more many than previous years at the same position that the picks thereafter now have a legitimate gripe and are trying to use that contract to help slot themselves. Obviously, the FO's are trying to avoid that as much as possible.




If I were Moreno, I'd say just that....."Get me 8-10% above last year's #12 pick.....as that is what is normal......and let's call it a day."



Mediator posted an article the other day that outlines the process pretty well from the position of the agent and his player. While it seems like it would be simple to slot and add percentages over previous years, the article brought up the important point that the "negotiations" aren't necessarily so--the team has exclusive rights and we don't know exactly how much the FO is offering versus how much the player is demanding.

Without transparency of the process, it's really hard to know whether an FO is low balling a player or if the player is demanding too much. Not enough is really guaranteed for any of these players, so I don't blame them one bit to make sure that they get as much as possible up front.

SoCalBronco
08-06-2009, 09:42 AM
This is what happens when agents get involved, money overrides everything.

Good. That's how it should be. They aren't here just to please us. They are here to maximize their income. For us to criticize them is completely hypocritical, because that's our goal in each of our respective professions as well. Knowshon should get every penny he can. That should be his ONLY goal in this. If he gets in to camp early, thats great. If not, its not a big deal. He's gotta be comfortable with what he signs. This is a business, nothing more and nothing less.

no-pseudo-fan
08-06-2009, 09:42 AM
I understand both sides. Moreno wants to play and he wants to get paid. Agents are slick, and Moreno may want to be here and tell his agent to get it done, but the agent might be telling him that the team is not giving you what you are worth etc etc.

As long as he knows the play book, he will be ok. I heard Ayers got a 16% increase over last years #18.

Karenin
08-06-2009, 09:43 AM
EXACTLY. Alot of these idiot college kids (not saying Moreno is one), don't seem to realize that THE AGENT WORKS FOR THEM.....not the other way around. Rather than sitting idly by, and allowing their agent to "run the show" and squeeze every nickel out of the team.....the player can (and should) say, "Listen, get me what is fair and reasonable. Don't let the team screw me.....and get the deal done in time for me to be in camp on time."

If I were Moreno, I'd say just that....."Get me 8-10% above last year's #12 pick.....as that is what is normal......and let's call it a day."

yea, i'm sure you'd leave $2 million+ on the table just because you wanted to start doing drills earlier. give me a ****ing break.

meangene
08-06-2009, 09:45 AM
There were issues raised about Crabtree's attitude and demeanor before the draft. Sounds like he is a real ass and is pissed he did not go in the top 5. His ego, fed by his agent, is causing him to hold out to get paid like he was drafted higher. I don't see the Niners budging on that so this could go on a while. At some point, the other draft picks need to decide if it is more important to take the normal increase over last year's picks in the same slots or, continue to hold out hoping he gets a bit of a windfall because some teams overpay for picks ahead of him. I'm getting frustrated with Moreno because I think it is time he got into camp. I could understand maybe a week to see what happens with the Crabtree situation, but enough is enough. Hell, Orapko signed. If he wants to be a feature back on this team this year, he needs to get in now.

s0phr0syne
08-06-2009, 09:48 AM
From the perspective of the player, one impetus to get signed and in camp would be to learn in TC more thoroughly, especially for a player like Moreno who has potential to start and/or contribute heavily this season.

More important than the signing bonus for him might be the escalator clauses in his contract--his chances of hitting those escalators are much higher if he reports to camp and learns and can move up the depth chart than if he ends up coming in later. He might get the larger signing bonus (which is the only part that's really guaranteed), but he sacrifices the potential to maximize earnings within that contract.

Of course, that's just a fan's perspective, and the agent and player have to consider the possibility that he might suffer a career ending injury on his first touch.

Chris
08-06-2009, 09:49 AM
Knowshon! Sign the ****ing papers!

Hercules Rockefeller
08-06-2009, 09:57 AM
Schefter thought it would end today. It would be nice to see him out at Invesco and he can showcase his stuff in front of a bunch of fans

According to the Post, KM was still in Georgia last night. Until he's in town, they're not close. Even if he signs today, the same Post article said he would not practice tonight.

DBroncos4life
08-06-2009, 09:58 AM
so should he just sign a deal to get into camp so he can hold out a year later when he out plays it so you guys can bitch that he's not honoring his contract?

Hercules Rockefeller
08-06-2009, 10:09 AM
so should he just sign a deal to get into camp so he can hold out a year later when he out plays it so you guys can b**** that he's not honoring his contract?

Naaah, gotta play 2 years on your rookie deal before it can be re-negotiated.

Paladin
08-06-2009, 10:10 AM
Why should I be frustrated - or "flaccid", I think he said he was- over something I cannot control? Why shouldnt we just enjoy the camp reports as we get them, and let the FO worry about signing players, and let the coaches coach. Your job is to buy tickets, attend games, applaud when appropriate, groan when appropriate, and watch. You should also breathe when appropriate.

Soem people need to get a life, I think. Why don't you take up fishing. There's not a lot of shouting over on the Fishing Boards, and the blood pressures are much lower.

DBroncos4life
08-06-2009, 10:11 AM
Naaah, gotta play 2 years on your rookie deal before it can be re-negotiated.

my bad :)

misturanderson
08-06-2009, 10:12 AM
Good. That's how it should be. They aren't here just to please us. They are here to maximize their income. For us to criticize them is completely hypocritical, because that's our goal in each of our respective professions as well. Knowshon should get every penny he can. That should be his ONLY goal in this. If he gets in to camp early, thats great. If not, its not a big deal. He's gotta be comfortable with what he signs. This is a business, nothing more and nothing less.

But at what point do prolonged negotiations hurt him more than help him? As was said before, he's probably already given up a dozen carries through the year due to his holdout. What if he gets within a few yards of a performance bonus and he loses that because he wasn't in camp competing?

I still can't figure out why it is so necessary in so many peoples minds to get an extra $500,000 when you're already going to be making $13 million. That extra money is almost certainly more important to the agent than the player. If they're going to blow $13 mill, they're going to blow $13.5 mill. If they're going to do a good job of saving their money, they'll be rich either way. If they seriously have trouble living off of that money for even 10 years, then they are idiots.

I can honestly say that I would get a contract done just to go do my job even if it meant missing out on an extra couple hundred thousand dollars, IF my contract was going to be worth over $10 million regardless.

DeuceOfClub
08-06-2009, 10:15 AM
I wouldn't be shock to learn that Crabtree already spent $5-$10,000,000.

Regardless, even if he doesn't play one game this year I think he will have more impact than DHB.

Gcver2ver3
08-06-2009, 10:19 AM
crabtree and his agent are threatening to re-enter next year's draft now...

those two deserve each other...

atomicbloke
08-06-2009, 10:24 AM
Sometimes holding out of TC in your rookie year can cost you later on.

Ask Phillip Rivers.

If Moreno holds out a few more weeks, he loses ground to Hillis, Torain and Buckhalter.

And if they grab this opportunity by the horns (like they seem to be doing), they may start the games and get more carries in the regular season.

As a result Moreno gets few carries and doesn't hit his escalator bonuses. And this can have an effect when he becomes a free agent a few years later. He may potentially lose more money then than he stands to gain now.

Now if he holds out for just a week or so, then the above might not happen. But if his holdout continues for a long time, then it becomes a possibility.

Hercules Rockefeller
08-06-2009, 10:30 AM
crabtree and his agent are threatening to re-enter next year's draft now...

those two deserve each other...

That's awesome. No chance he goes at #10 again (or higher) after not playing for a year and the current ****show. At some point, he might want to sack up and take the #10 money because he's not getting anywhere near that next year.

He might want to look at return entries in the MLB and NHL drafts, they're never drafted close to where they were the first time around.

Traveler
08-06-2009, 10:32 AM
crabtree and his agent are threatening to re-enter next year's draft now...

those two deserve each other...

I never wish injury on anyone. That said, I've seen several instances where a rookie holds out similar to Crabtree and once he finally signs a contract, he has some type of major injury.

It'll be interesting to see if this happens to Crabtree.

Anaximines
08-06-2009, 10:34 AM
Well, I'm not sure it's all being caused by Crabtree as much as the media would like us to buy into that. A big part of the problem is the Raiders contract with DHB--it guarantees so much more many than previous years at the same position that the picks thereafter now have a legitimate gripe and are trying to use that contract to help slot themselves. Obviously, the FO's are trying to avoid that as much as possible.

Yes, it's a great point and I blame Oakland also for taking DHB instead of Crabtree, causing him to slide to 10. All this talk about him wanting top 5 money indicates to me that he wants to get paid what he thinks he deserves in spite of Al Davis' insanity - he doesn't want people looking at DHB as the premier receiver in this draft. If Oakland had taken him there instead of DHB he'd be getting his top 5 money and everything would be fine.

Gcver2ver3
08-06-2009, 10:34 AM
That's awesome. No chance he goes at #10 again (or higher) after not playing for a year and the current ****show. At some point, he might want to sack up and take the #10 money because he's not getting anywhere near that last year.

He might want to look at return entries in the MLB and NHL drafts, they're never drafted close to where they were the first time around.

exactly...

i don't know what crabtree and his agent are thinking...

if the reports are true, crabtree's agent is asking for top 5 $$ even though crabtree was picked #10...what kind of sense does that make?...

crabtree and his agents are publicly making themselves look terrible...do they actually think this behavior will be rewarded by being picked higher than 10th next season?...

Gcver2ver3
08-06-2009, 10:41 AM
I never wish injury on anyone. That said, I've seen several instances where a rookie holds out similar to Crabtree and once he finally signs a contract, he has some type of major injury.

It'll be interesting to see if this happens to Crabtree.

i don't wish injury on anyone either, but i do hope this situation turns out bad for him and his agent...

in a fantasy world i would like to see crabtree relegated to playng for $35k in the new upstart league and his agent blackballed from the industry...

but thats just fantasy world thinkin there...

s0phr0syne
08-06-2009, 10:48 AM
lolz, he might actually have to run a 40 next year, gasp!

seriously a pretty dumbass threat, from a slow, 6ft receiver coming from the spread

bowtown
08-06-2009, 10:50 AM
Sometimes holding out of TC in your rookie year can cost you later on.

Ask Phillip Rivers.



Sorry, what does Phillip Rivers have to do with anything?

Mediator12
08-06-2009, 10:51 AM
Here is a real good Article on the business of the contracts in the NFL:

What I can say is the same thing I’ve written many times, that there is much more to these contracts than simply filling in numbers. Certainly, the amount of all the different type of bonuses – option, signing, roster, reporting, performance, etc. – are all obvious subjects of negotiation but only part of what is being negotiated. The other parts of the negotiation – structure, payout, upside, downside, backside, cash flow, etc. – are just as important and try to address the sticky subject of risk and who assumes it: downside risk to the team if the player turns out to be below expectations or even a “bust,” or upside risk to the player if he turns out to be a superstar.

No one can predict the future (if we could, we wouldn’t have Las Vegas). Thus, negotiating a contract is trying to best approximate what might happen with a player and a team with a changing marketplace and a variety of potential outcomes. The hard money in the contract is a function of the marketplace; in the case of the draft, it’s a fairly well defined marketplace.

Often, negotiations bog down not because of money but because of other things. When I negotiated the contract of Aaron Rodgers – the 25th pick in the 2005 NFL Draft – the discussion about the amount of money in the deal took less than an hour. The discussion about the escalator in the fifth year of the contract – a year that was never reached because the contract was renegotiated last year – took over 50 hours.

Rodgers’ agent and I vigorously debated the amount and timing of escalator money in the contract based on Rodgers’ performance. The wild card in the negotiation, of course, was trying to determine when Brett Favre would retire, something we’ve been trying to determine for years (and perhaps still are).

With the Maclin deal, there were a lot of moving parts on the money and the structure issues of the contract, with deals around us that were not consistent in all areas, making the “fitting in” aspect of the negotiation not as easy as it sounds. Once we were able to figure out premiums, discounts, approximate values of different escalators, structures, payouts, etc., we moved forward with a deal -- with some twists and turns thrown in along the way (for a while, I wondered if I were negotiating a football contract or the Mideast Peace Treaty).

I’ll have more on Maclin at the appropriate time. Know that every time I see him make a catch, I’ll think of these past two weeks and the slow march toward execution (of the contract, that is).



http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Wednesday-whys-Contract-complications.html

The money is rarely the issue, its usually who has the risk on players like Crabtree who comes in @ 10 due to multiple injuries.

Gcver2ver3
08-06-2009, 10:54 AM
Sorry, what does Phillip Rivers have to do with anything?

Rivers was drafted because Brees wasn't living up to expectations...

Rivers decides to hold out as a rookie and because of that, doesn't get a real chance to compete to take the starting job from Brees in camp...

Brees suddenly has a career year and shows he is a Pro Bowl talent...

the chargers still eventually decided to keep Rivers and let Brees walk, but Rivers holdout forced him to sit for a season longer than he was probably going to have to...

MVP-06
08-06-2009, 11:13 AM
Crabtree has nothing to do with the signings of the guys around him. They go off of last years #s for the most part. The whole bottom half of the draft is signed without everyone in front of them having contracts. Picks 8-12 need to stop screwing around and get the deal done.

uplink
08-06-2009, 11:29 AM
If there is a positive side to the hold out, he will be fresh later in the year when he will be needed to play more.
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Baba Booey
08-06-2009, 11:31 AM
It's that dickhead from the bay area.

zdoor
08-06-2009, 12:09 PM
Good. That's how it should be. They aren't here just to please us. They are here to maximize their income. For us to criticize them is completely hypocritical, because that's our goal in each of our respective professions as well. Knowshon should get every penny he can. That should be his ONLY goal in this. If he gets in to camp early, thats great. If not, its not a big deal. He's gotta be comfortable with what he signs. This is a business, nothing more and nothing less.

Agree with your point but there will be a point of dimminsihing return and potentially halting growth which could affect his ability to renegotiate early and delay from endorsement contracts because of not being able to show much in year 1...

Garcia Bronco
08-06-2009, 12:13 PM
I just don't care whether Moreno plays or not. If he does great, if he doesn't great. They'll find someone else.

Inkana7
08-06-2009, 12:15 PM
I just don't care whether Moreno plays or not. If he does great, if he doesn't great. They'll find someone else.

You should. He's a special running back.

Hulamau
08-06-2009, 12:26 PM
just part of the game nowdays. Moreno a rb, they don't last long, its smart for him to get the best deal he can. With all the mini camps he knows whats going on with the offense. IMO it won't be that big of a deal but it keeps him from being named the starter that is for sure.

The difference they are talking about now is no more than $500,000 +/- and its idiotic to continue holding out any longer and risk not getting a starting spot on the team. Yes he'll play but if he held out another week or two longer he could easily miss the boat fro this year as far as becoming a marquee name this year and in the running for rookie of the year honors perhaps.

He'd more than make that difference up in advertising fees if he is a star rather than a part time bench warmer this season. Its stupid and Knowshon is caught between his agents and a hard place. They want the extra money and to slot their other guys as high as possible and could care less about Knowshon's long term.

Beantown Bronco
08-06-2009, 12:28 PM
The difference they are talking about now is no more than $500,000 +/-

Rumor and hearsay.

elsid13
08-06-2009, 12:34 PM
You should. He's a special running back.

Maybe, maybe not. He just as likely to be a bust at this level as HOFre. Being drafted in 1st doesn't mean your special, it means longer time to reach your potential.

Rabb
08-06-2009, 12:43 PM
I care that he plays, we used our #12 pick on him instead of defense.

boltaneer
08-06-2009, 12:49 PM
Rivers was drafted because Brees wasn't living up to expectations...

Rivers decides to hold out as a rookie and because of that, doesn't get a real chance to compete to take the starting job from Brees in camp...

Brees suddenly has a career year and shows he is a Pro Bowl talent...

the chargers still eventually decided to keep Rivers and let Brees walk, but Rivers holdout forced him to sit for a season longer than he was probably going to have to...

Quarterback and Running Back are completely different animals though. A QB needs the entire came to even stand a chance at competing for the job.

LT was a holdout for almost all of training camp and it didn't hinder him much at all. While it can hurt running backs in some areas, like blitz pickup, they'll still get a good amount of playing time. QBs can't afford to miss training camp unless they're willing to hold a clipboard for the year.

Also, holdouts almost never get what they want but yet, it continues to happen every year. Sure, the team is hurt because the player they drafted will not be able to contribute as much or at all but the team still has all the leverage in these situations. Players can threaten to sit out the year and re-enter next year's draft but how many times has this happened? Holding out hurts the player infinitely more than it does the team.

55CrushEm
08-06-2009, 12:54 PM
yea, i'm sure you'd leave $2 million+ on the table just because you wanted to start doing drills earlier. give me a ****ing break.

STFU, you moron......we're not talking about millions of dollars of DIFFERENCE with what is normal, reasonable, 8-10% above last year's slot, etc......and what his agent is trying to get.

Karenin
08-06-2009, 01:01 PM
STFU, you moron......we're not talking about millions of dollars of DIFFERENCE with what is normal, reasonable, 8-10% above last year's slot, etc......and what his agent is trying to get.

how do you know? and don't respond with more barely intelligible gibberish, post a link from a reputable source that the amount he is trying to get is less than a million dollars more than what is being offered. I'll be waiting with bated breath ::)

bowtown
08-06-2009, 01:24 PM
Rivers was drafted because Brees wasn't living up to expectations...

Rivers decides to hold out as a rookie and because of that, doesn't get a real chance to compete to take the starting job from Brees in camp...

Brees suddenly has a career year and shows he is a Pro Bowl talent...

the chargers still eventually decided to keep Rivers and let Brees walk, but Rivers holdout forced him to sit for a season longer than he was probably going to have to...

Rivers was probably going to sit for his first year anyway or at least the first half, so things wouldn't have been any different at all. Plus, sitting an extra year or two was probably good for Rivers as a QB, and it certainly didn't hurt San Diego. Add to that that Rivers is going to get paid like a top 3 QB at the end of this season, right on schedule... seems like it worked out pretty well for everyone. No real lessons to be learned there at all.

I just don't think that the comparison is a very good one. They don't really have anything to do with each other.

underrated29
08-06-2009, 01:31 PM
wow you guys are vicious here.


Anyways, Moreno is a very special talent. Of course any player can bust. With him, from all the film i have seen on him, and they type of system we are running i would say his chance of busting is about as good as tyler polumbus beating out Clady for the starting LT spot.


Its just not going to happen.

KevinJames
08-06-2009, 03:15 PM
People shouldn't get so worked up about this

its part of the business, and hes a RB so it won't take him long to come in and make a impact. His position is probably going to the easiest adjustment out of any offensive position.

and stop bashing the guy cause hes not signed, put yourself in Moreno's shoes and I doubt a lot of you guys would be signed right now.

Paladin
08-06-2009, 03:28 PM
People shouldn't get so worked up about this

its part of the business, and hes a RB so it won't take him long to come in and make a impact. His position is probably going to the easiest adjustment out of any offensive position.

and stop bashing the guy cause hes not signed, put yourself in Moreno's shoes and I doubt a lot of you guys would be signed right now.

i think there are several or more of the guys around here who would sign for half of the reputed 12 million.

Garcia Bronco
08-06-2009, 03:28 PM
I really don't care if he signs, doesn't play, or goes back in the draft. Somebody else can take his place.

underrated29
08-06-2009, 03:32 PM
I really don't care if he signs, doesn't play, or goes back in the draft. Somebody else can take his place.



True, same if clady doesnt play or doesnt show. Or kyle doesnt play. Someone can take their place. But they wont be nearly as good as our original.

Garcia Bronco
08-06-2009, 03:32 PM
You should. He's a special running back.

Running back has an average career of something like 4 years. HE could have a 20 year career, but the odds aren't in his favor.

rastaman
08-06-2009, 03:33 PM
Anyone else getting as frustrated with this as I am? It is known that his guaranteed money is going to be right at $12 million, so I don't believe it can be that difficult to structure the rest of the deal. Meanwhile he is losing VERY valuable time at camp right now, and I fear that by the time he really gets in a groove we will already be into week 5 or 6. Remember Darrell Scott at CU last year? Showed up a little late and out of shape and he never got on track.

Hillis and Torain are well equiped to take up the slack for Moreno. What you don't is Moreno sitting out the entire season and re-entering into the draft in 2010!!!!!!:thumbs:

Bowlen may want to just see if there is a compromise for both sides......he can't sit back on this should it get ugly the way he sat back and did nothing (until it was too late) like what happened btwn McDaniels and Cuttler.

Attention Mr. Bowlen......lets get Moreno into camp before he decides to sit out the entire season----and you find your No.1 pick re-entering the NFL draft in 2010.

Garcia Bronco
08-06-2009, 03:34 PM
True, same if clady doesnt play or doesnt show. Or kyle doesnt play. Someone can take their place. But they wont be nearly as good as our original.

LT and the QB position aren't the same as the RB position. I root for the laundry anymore, I don't care who's wearing it because they, the players, don't really care either. It's just a job.

footstepsfrom#27
08-06-2009, 03:36 PM
This is what happens when agents get involved, money overrides everything. It would be nice to see a player just say, "hey, I'm going to be rich anyway, just get the deal done. We know what people got last year and this year, no need to wait for the jackoff 2 picks higher than me to finally give in to the fact that he wasn't picked in the top 3."
You must be living in some kind of dream world if you think a guy who probably knows very little about financial transactions is going to rely on his own ability to negotiate with NFL teams when he has an attorney to do this for him. I work with financial transactions and I wouldn't do this for myself with the money involved in this. It's not the agents fault or the players fault...it's a business, and this is how business gets done. The days of players doing what you suggest ended with the era of big money sports contracts.

oubronco
08-06-2009, 03:40 PM
If I was the 49ers I'd would not budge. Crabtree would sit out the whole season for all I care...

:thumbs:

rastaman
08-06-2009, 03:46 PM
You should. He's a special running back.

Any player lucky enough to make it to the NFL.....is special in their own right, especially if you look at the odds of making it to the NFL.

bowtown
08-06-2009, 04:00 PM
Any player lucky enough to make it to the NFL.....is special in their own right, especially if you look at the odds of making it to the NFL.

Especially Raiders and Chiefs players... they are special in a different way though, just like their fans.

Garcia Bronco
08-06-2009, 04:06 PM
Any player lucky enough to make it to the NFL.....is special in their own right, especially if you look at the odds of making it to the NFL.

It's less than a tenth of a percent.