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View Full Version : OT: Journalists released from NK prison...who cares???


Pontius Pirate
08-05-2009, 02:46 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_nkorea_journalists_held

Personally, I had zero empathy for these two. From all accounts, they attempted to enter North Korea illegally to do some journalism for a not-so-official news outlet.

Hello?! We have relatively hostile relations with NK. What do you think was going to happen?

It's the same thing with those 3 "hikers" from Berkeley who just got arrested trying to enter Iran through Pakistan. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?!?

Popps
08-05-2009, 02:53 PM
Yea, ummm.... 12 years in a labor camp for crossing the border illegally?

Give me a ****ing break. **** NK. I'm glad these women are home safe and sound. We don't know the full story, but even if they were attempting to report on a corrupt regime, they're still Americans and shouldn't have been used as political pawns.

Maybe we should worry more about NK starving their own people to death.

~Crash~
08-05-2009, 02:55 PM
I bet MR Clinton is still washing his hands.

thumpc
08-05-2009, 02:56 PM
N Korea put a scare in 'em for a few months. Then Bubba and Kim Jong be Illin' shared a few hoes and Henessey...

Garcia Bronco
08-05-2009, 02:57 PM
Yea, ummm.... 12 years in a labor camp for crossing the border illegally?

Give me a ****ing break. **** NK. I'm glad these women are home safe and sound. We don't know the full story, but even if they were attempting to report on a corrupt regime, they're still Americans and shouldn't have been used as political pawns.

Maybe we should worry more about NK starving their own people to death.

+1

Check out the difference between NK and SK in the dark. It's amusing and sad all at the same time.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/dprk/dprk-dark.htm

SouthStndJunkie
08-05-2009, 02:58 PM
Billy probably worked this out to his betterment in the form of a threesome on the plane ride back.

Killericon
08-05-2009, 02:58 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_nkorea_journalists_held

Personally, I had zero empathy for these two. From all accounts, they attempted to enter North Korea illegally to do some journalism for a not-so-official news outlet.

Hello?! We have relatively hostile relations with NK. What do you think was going to happen?

It's the same thing with those 3 "hikers" from Berkeley who just got arrested trying to enter Iran through Pakistan. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?!?

First things first; A "not-so-official news outlet"? What the hell is an "official news outlet"?!?

Second, they were doing a story on human trafficking. There's a reason our relations with North Korea are hostile. That story is going to lead Journalists into dangerous places. Either the story is ignored andr Journalists don't try to go into dangerous places, or they do. I think I know what I want Journalists to do.

Pontius Pirate
08-05-2009, 03:00 PM
Yea, ummm.... 12 years in a labor camp for crossing the border illegally?

Give me a ****ing break. **** NK. I'm glad these women are home safe and sound. We don't know the full story, but even if they were attempting to report on a corrupt regime, they're still Americans and shouldn't have been used as political pawns.

Maybe we should worry more about NK starving their own people to death.

Exactly - **** NK. Meaning, leave them the **** alone and let them implode internally like we did with the USSR. The last thing we need is to have U.S. citizens trying to infiltrate their country. It emboldens their stance that the U.S. is trying to meddle with their affairs, thus helping the crazy NK leaders to present us as corrupters...and then present us as puppies with tails between legs asking for these idiots release.

If some reporters tried to get into Sudan illegally, or any other country that openly hates us, I'd say the same thing.

Now, if they had legit reporter credentials and permission from the NK - and they were doing nothing wrong - then I'd soften my view.

Otherwise, let them do the time as per local custom. The price you pay for being an idiot in a foreign land

Popps
08-05-2009, 03:08 PM
Otherwise, let them do the time as per local custom. The price you pay for being an idiot in a foreign land

Yea, and the price they would have paid for detaining these women any longer forced them to come to their senses.

I don't disagree with you in principle, but saying we should stay out of their yard is almost validating their existence. Those people live in poverty and terror. Props to any journalists brave enough to try to uncover the details for the world to consume.

CoopDawg
08-05-2009, 03:12 PM
Thank God they are safe. They are American citizens and I for one am proud that our country managed to release them.

Pontius Pirate
08-05-2009, 03:17 PM
First things first; A "not-so-official news outlet"? What the hell is an "official news outlet"?!?

Second, they were doing a story on human trafficking. There's a reason our relations with North Korea are hostile. That story is going to lead Journalists into dangerous places. Either the story is ignored andr Journalists don't try to go into dangerous places, or they do. I think I know what I want Journalists to do.

I would say if they had credentials and their outfit (Current TV) is an accredited news source, then it's "official"

But if you're just some blogger who wants to enter a country illegally, you are pretty much forfeiting all protections afforded to you by your host country (IMHO).

Also, by all accounts, both of them were warned numerous times by NK authorities to not enter the country (i.e. they had been warned before actually being arrested).

gunns
08-05-2009, 03:27 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_nkorea_journalists_held

Personally, I had zero empathy for these two. From all accounts, they attempted to enter North Korea illegally to do some journalism for a not-so-official news outlet.

Hello?! We have relatively hostile relations with NK. What do you think was going to happen?

It's the same thing with those 3 "hikers" from Berkeley who just got arrested trying to enter Iran through Pakistan. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?!?

As a mother, I cared.

lizzard123
08-05-2009, 03:29 PM
+1 for caring unconditionally about fellow Americans.

manchambo
08-05-2009, 05:08 PM
First, I don't really understand not caring when American citizens are mistreated by a brutal dictatorship. And while they certainly should have known that what they were doing was dangerous, they deserve some admiration for having the guts to try to change the world by letting people know what goes on there. And, in any case, I don't see how anyone could have foreseen that an illegal border crossing would lead to 12 years hard labor.

Second, and slightly OT, was anyone else as blown away by me at the weirdness of the photo of Clinton and Kim Jong Il? He is such a strange looking little man he almost looks like an alien. And then you have that weird raging sea backdrop. Honestly the picture looks like it should be captioned "Bill Clinton meets with Martian visitors."

Every so often I am reminded of the vastness in the divide between our culture and most basic ways of thinking and those of people in some other parts of the world. I found the picture (in the context of the whole situation) to illustrate that pretty sharply. And it makes me wonder whether you can ever come to some understanding with that regime.

Rock Chalk
08-05-2009, 05:10 PM
I get what Pontius is saying and, to some extent agree.

Look, if you leave America and you break the laws of the country you are visiting, you should suffer those penalties, period. Whether they are just or not. Thats the risk you take when you leave America.

You dont like it, dont leave America. I wont. I dont trust any other country out there including western european countries.

On the flip side, I am certainly glad they made it home safe.

elsid13
08-05-2009, 05:15 PM
I get what Pontius is saying and, to some extent agree.

Look, if you leave America and you break the laws of the country you are visiting, you should suffer those penalties, period. Whether they are just or not. Thats the risk you take when you leave America.

You dont like it, dont leave America. I wont. I dont trust any other country out there including western european countries.

On the flip side, I am certainly glad they made it home safe.

The story was they were in China and NK border guards actually crossed the border to arrest them. They were reporting on sex slave traffic out of NK. Besides who cares if they broke any of that little bastard's laws. ****er should be string up and anal prob with a broken glass covered spike.

Hogan11
08-05-2009, 05:15 PM
Thank God they are safe. They are American citizens and I for one am proud that our country managed to release them.

Agreed....It's not the act that some are up in arms about, it's because it was Bill Clinton who got them out and that makes it unacceptable. Clinton could save the Earth from mass destruction and still some would biatch about it. That's just the way of the west.

cutthemdown
08-05-2009, 05:18 PM
First, I don't really understand not caring when American citizens are mistreated by a brutal dictatorship. And while they certainly should have known that what they were doing was dangerous, they deserve some admiration for having the guts to try to change the world by letting people know what goes on there. And, in any case, I don't see how anyone could have foreseen that an illegal border crossing would lead to 12 years hard labor.

Second, and slightly OT, was anyone else as blown away by me at the weirdness of the photo of Clinton and Kim Jong Il? He is such a strange looking little man he almost looks like an alien. And then you have that weird raging sea backdrop. Honestly the picture looks like it should be captioned "Bill Clinton meets with Martian visitors."

Every so often I am reminded of the vastness in the divide between our culture and most basic ways of thinking and those of people in some other parts of the world. I found the picture (in the context of the whole situation) to illustrate that pretty sharply. And it makes me wonder whether you can ever come to some understanding with that regime.

Considering they teach kids that Kim Jong doesn't defecate I'd say no, we will never understand them as long as the communist dictatorship survives.

Iran is one thing, but IMO they are normal enough to be left alone unless they build a nuke. But this guy, this country, they are friggin crazy. The worlds goal should be an overthrow of the N Korean regime. Whatever we have to do to get Russia and CHina to help we should IMO. Short of giving up our security etc etc.

But hell no we cant let that freak of a country get there hands on a nuke they can put on a long range missile. He has to be stopped.

Taco John
08-05-2009, 05:44 PM
I always have empathy for people taken hostage.

Paladin
08-05-2009, 05:49 PM
Well, bang on it all you want, but that regime has agreed to let the DoD teams search for more POW and MIA remains. I hope my dad is one of them they find in this next search.

Did you know that Kim listens to 60's R&R music? Did you know he studied American Culture? He had the hots for Elizabeth taylor, and he liked Rambo..... I am not suporting him in any way, but I do think there is a certain amount of logic behind some of his nutty behavior.

But it does seem to me that there are screws loose in some members of all cultures, and we see our share around here, some of whom are bedwetters..........

Rock Chalk
08-05-2009, 06:13 PM
The story was they were in China and NK border guards actually crossed the border to arrest them. They were reporting on sex slave traffic out of NK. Besides who cares if they broke any of that little bastard's laws. ****er should be string up and anal prob with a broken glass covered spike.

Well they were in China and NK crossed the Chinese boarder and arrested Americans and China allowed that?

Bull****.

And it really doesn't matter if we agree with the regime in power or not. Kim John Il is a crazy SOB that has no right to be in power but he is. And unless we intend on deposing him he sets the laws of that country and you better ****ing follow them.

So, what if some I dont know, French douchebag came over here and did things illegal, we shouldnt arrest him/her because they didnt agree with our regime?

ITs a retarded assertion.

Im glad the journalists got home safe, I really am, but I also have no sympathy for them for being arrested. They took a chance and got caught, tough break for them but they broke a law (again its not a just law by American standards) in another country and deserve to pay the penalty.

If we do not allow other countries to punish criminals from America on their soil (and they were criminals by the very definition of the word) how can we punish foreign criminals on our own soil?

elsid13
08-05-2009, 06:19 PM
Well they were in China and NK crossed the Chinese boarder and arrested Americans and China allowed that?

Bull****.

And it really doesn't matter if we agree with the regime in power or not. Kim John Il is a crazy SOB that has no right to be in power but he is. And unless we intend on deposing him he sets the laws of that country and you better ****ing follow them.

So, what if some I dont know, French douchebag came over here and did things illegal, we shouldnt arrest him/her because they didnt agree with our regime?

ITs a retarded assertion.

Im glad the journalists got home safe, I really am, but I also have no sympathy for them for being arrested. They took a chance and got caught, tough break for them but they broke a law (again its not a just law by American standards) in another country and deserve to pay the penalty.

If we do not allow other countries to punish criminals from America on their soil (and they were criminals by the very definition of the word) how can we punish foreign criminals on our own soil?

The Chinese officials did nothing because that is one of the most corrupt area in the world. How do you think those women and boys are transported in brothels?

And there major difference in our Western legal system and NK Stalin's dictatorship. It why we fought the cold war, and are chasing Al-Querida down. To say that their law and we need to respect it means you legitimatize that regime.

Spider
08-05-2009, 07:04 PM
Agreed....It's not the act that some are up in arms about, it's because it was Bill Clinton who got them out and that makes it unacceptable. Clinton could save the Earth from mass destruction and still some would biatch about it. That's just the way of the west.

Pretty much ......... Phony assed bed wetters

Spider
08-05-2009, 07:10 PM
Well they were in China and NK crossed the Chinese boarder and arrested Americans and China allowed that?

Bull****.



What in the hell are you babbling about **** like this goes on on our border with Mexico all the time , only they smuggle young girls in to be prostitutes here ...
Ponch's Hi/Lo outside of Edinburgh texas for example .....

Florida_Bronco
08-05-2009, 07:33 PM
Pretty much ......... Phony assed bed wetters

I was sitting with a hardcore Republican when the news broke. The very first thing he brought up was that Clinton did it for the glory. I reminded him that two fellow Americans were just saved from a rather horrible fate and asked him why he felt that the motives of the man largely responsible for it were really that important.

He never answered.

Paladin
08-05-2009, 08:24 PM
Pretty much ......... Phony assed bed wetters

Good call.....

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
08-05-2009, 09:21 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_nkorea_journalists_held

Personally, I had zero empathy for these two. From all accounts, they attempted to enter North Korea illegally to do some journalism for a not-so-official news outlet.

Hello?! We have relatively hostile relations with NK. What do you think was going to happen?

It's the same thing with those 3 "hikers" from Berkeley who just got arrested trying to enter Iran through Pakistan. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?!?

care a lot. you don't what we gave up for them. at the very lease obama gave that a*hole a lot of legitimacy.

NUB
08-05-2009, 09:23 PM
Legitimacy with who?

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
08-06-2009, 12:45 AM
Legitimacy with who?

really :notthissh

Dark Helmet
08-06-2009, 01:08 AM
The probably would have been released earlier if Hillary could use common sense when commenting on foreign affairs...Tensions greatly increased after her comment saying that North Korea had no friends and was acting like an unruly. Though she might have been right on, common sense would tell you not to poke a stick at a psycho path with Nuclear ambitions.
I did not feel the least bit sorry for the two stupid a** journalists who were caught snooping on the border of a country we are still technically at war with.

rastaman
08-06-2009, 06:00 AM
Billy probably worked this out to his betterment in the form of a threesome on the plane ride back.

I understand the Party Animal Bush Twins were also on the flight. So I guess there was a fivesome!!!:thumbsup:

rastaman
08-06-2009, 06:02 AM
care a lot. you don't what we gave up for them. at the very lease obama gave that a*hole a lot of legitimacy.

Oh boy.....gotta have a life long enemy. Gotta keep those "Axis of Evil" propaganda going....don't we!

rastaman
08-06-2009, 06:04 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_nkorea_journalists_held

Personally, I had zero empathy for these two. From all accounts, they attempted to enter North Korea illegally to do some journalism for a not-so-official news outlet.

Hello?! We have relatively hostile relations with NK. What do you think was going to happen?

It's the same thing with those 3 "hikers" from Berkeley who just got arrested trying to enter Iran through Pakistan. WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN?!?

Oh calm down why don'tcha......lets just let "Bolton" handle all this----at leastthe warmongers can see how well our Tacticle Nukes work.

rastaman
08-06-2009, 06:06 AM
N Korea put a scare in 'em for a few months. Then Bubba and Kim Jong be Illin' shared a few hoes and Henessey...

Dam....how come we couldnt just continue to use The Bush Cowboy Gunboat diplomacy. It works so well after all.

rastaman
08-06-2009, 06:15 AM
Well they were in China and NK crossed the Chinese boarder and arrested Americans and China allowed that?

Bull****.

And it really doesn't matter if we agree with the regime in power or not. Kim John Il is a crazy SOB that has no right to be in power but he is. And unless we intend on deposing him he sets the laws of that country and you better ****ing follow them.

So, what if some I dont know, French douchebag came over here and did things illegal, we shouldnt arrest him/her because they didnt agree with our regime?

ITs a retarded assertion.

Im glad the journalists got home safe, I really am, but I also have no sympathy for them for being arrested. They took a chance and got caught, tough break for them but they broke a law (again its not a just law by American standards) in another country and deserve to pay the penalty.

If we do not allow other countries to punish criminals from America on their soil (and they were criminals by the very definition of the word) how can we punish foreign criminals on our own soil?

Rock do you have a passport? How often have you traveled overseas? The way you post on this topic it seems as though you haven't done so very much if not at all.

Mr. Elway
08-06-2009, 06:55 AM
Say what you want about Clinton, or about the foolishness that got these young women into this situation. This was an incredible success for the administration, and an excellent strategic diplomatic maneuver. NK is a hostile and dangerous nation with whom we had broken all dialogue. Furthermore Obama has every reason to deny Clinton the glory of succeeding at this task, but he knew he was the best man for the job and the results back that decision up.

This move is not about rescuing journalists, it's about nuclear proliferation. A big win for the U.S. in my opinion.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
08-06-2009, 09:56 AM
Oh boy.....gotta have a life long enemy. Gotta keep those "Axis of Evil" propaganda going....don't we!

If that's the case. Then its Billy and Barry extending the "propaganda" ain't they. Dummy. :oyvey:

Pontius Pirate
08-06-2009, 12:01 PM
Say what you want about Clinton, or about the foolishness that got these young women into this situation. This was an incredible success for the administration, and an excellent strategic diplomatic maneuver. NK is a hostile and dangerous nation with whom we had broken all dialogue. Furthermore Obama has every reason to deny Clinton the glory of succeeding at this task, but he knew he was the best man for the job and the results back that decision up.

This move is not about rescuing journalists, it's about nuclear proliferation. A big win for the U.S. in my opinion.

Can you expand on how this is a "win" for the administration? As for the nuclear proliferation, we previously have told NK that we would talk about nukes with them only at multi-party talks and now with this move we apparently are open to bi-laterally talking to them.

I.e. bending to a rogue state who caught us in the act and used leverage to make it seem like Kim Jong Il is the good guy in this situation.

Mr. Elway
08-06-2009, 02:10 PM
Can you expand on how this is a "win" for the administration? As for the nuclear proliferation, we previously have told NK that we would talk about nukes with them only at multi-party talks and now with this move we apparently are open to bi-laterally talking to them.

I.e. bending to a rogue state who caught us in the act and used leverage to make it seem like Kim Jong Il is the good guy in this situation.

I see it as a way to engage diplomatically without the burden of exactly the sort of complications you describe. A way to come to terms on how to solve a problem, while conveniently avoiding THE problem. Consider these facets that lie beyond the headlines:

1. Productive dialog was established.
2. NK proves willing to play ball and make concessions.
3. Sending a past president bridges the gap between administrations and shows that despite the sea change from 2000-2008, the Democrats now in power are unified and committed in their desire for diplomacy.
4. We got our way, even if NK "looks good". It proves we are willing and able to arrive at a win-win.
5. It was QUICK! There was not much pushback from NK. Makes me suspect that the very reason for the arrest may have been NK bait for just such an engagement (that could be a stretch though).

If you don't believe in the power of diplomacy to win this standoff long-term, you probably won't agree with me on much of this. If you do think diplomacy is worth a try, I offer that a small success like this can set the stage for addressing the big problems.

Paladin
08-06-2009, 02:14 PM
Say what you want about Clinton, or about the foolishness that got these young women into this situation. This was an incredible success for the administration, and an excellent strategic diplomatic maneuver. NK is a hostile and dangerous nation with whom we had broken all dialogue. Furthermore Obama has every reason to deny Clinton the glory of succeeding at this task, but he knew he was the best man for the job and the results back that decision up.

This move is not about rescuing journalists, it's about nuclear proliferation. A big win for the U.S. in my opinion.

Right on!!!

Problem is, the numbskull neocons wont understand a word you wrote. They simply don't understand whem adults work on issues like diplomacy. Sad, really.....

rastaman
08-06-2009, 02:20 PM
If that's the case. Then its Billy and Barry extending the "propaganda" ain't they. Dummy. :oyvey:

No it isn't....idiot! :wiggle:

Tombstone RJ
08-06-2009, 02:25 PM
Both arrived at the airport with Clinton aboard a Boeing jet owned by Steve Bing, a multimillion-dollar film producer, friend of Clinton's and contributor to Democratic causes.

So, I guess a movie is gonna be made about this whole mess? I bet this Bing guy sees $$ at the end of this rainbow.

rastaman
08-06-2009, 02:27 PM
Right on!!!

Problem is, the numbskull neocons wont understand a word you wrote. They simply don't understand whem adults work on issues like diplomacy. Sad, really.....

Exactly!!!

Had a Republican been in the WH during the Cuban Missile Crisis......none of us would be posting on the Orangemane today!

It took a Democrat President to show diplomacy for cooler heads to all prevail. Simply put.....REPUBLICANS-PRESIDENTS SUCK at diplomacy.

The GOP would rather go to war or have a nuclear exchange or use tactical nukes on 3rd world countries to save face or to show their dominance rather than seek peace or show diplomatic diplomacy.

Pontius Pirate
08-06-2009, 02:27 PM
I see it as a way to engage diplomatically without the burden of exactly the sort of complications you describe. A way to come to terms on how to solve a problem, while conveniently avoiding THE problem. Consider these facets that lie beyond the headlines:

1. Productive dialog was established.
2. NK proves willing to play ball and make concessions.
3. Sending a past president bridges the gap between administrations and shows that despite the sea change from 2000-2008, the Democrats now in power are unified and committed in their desire for diplomacy.
4. We got our way, even if NK "looks good". It proves we are willing and able to arrive at a win-win.
5. It was QUICK! There was not much pushback from NK. Makes me suspect that the very reason for the arrest may have been NK bait for just such an engagement (that could be a stretch though).

If you don't believe in the power of diplomacy to win this standoff long-term, you probably won't agree with me on much of this. If you do think diplomacy is worth a try, I offer that a small success like this can set the stage for addressing the big problems.

Great! Now all we need Bill Clinton to do is go visit all the other rogue countries where we have political prisoners and that will solve everything, right?

I believe in diplomacy, but not "forced" diplomacy - i.e. we had to send over a former President to beg for the release of two idiots who crossed a border illegally (they said Al Gore was not acceptable). Meaning, we did it on the NK terms. That's hardly diplomacy. That's turning the tables.

Next thing you know, they will be saying "we only agree to bi-lateral talks if Obama shows up....and Elvis. We want Elvis.....and a pizza."

Tombstone RJ
08-06-2009, 02:33 PM
I see it as a way to engage diplomatically without the burden of exactly the sort of complications you describe. A way to come to terms on how to solve a problem, while conveniently avoiding THE problem. Consider these facets that lie beyond the headlines:

1. Productive dialog was established.
2. NK proves willing to play ball and make concessions.
3. Sending a past president bridges the gap between administrations and shows that despite the sea change from 2000-2008, the Democrats now in power are unified and committed in their desire for diplomacy.
4. We got our way, even if NK "looks good". It proves we are willing and able to arrive at a win-win.
5. It was QUICK! There was not much pushback from NK. Makes me suspect that the very reason for the arrest may have been NK bait for just such an engagement (that could be a stretch though).

If you don't believe in the power of diplomacy to win this standoff long-term, you probably won't agree with me on much of this. If you do think diplomacy is worth a try, I offer that a small success like this can set the stage for addressing the big problems.

Wow, that's a long post and nicely done.

Who's the freaking Secretary of State? Oh yah, HILLARY FREAKING CLINTON!!! Hilarious!

All Hillary did was tell Bill to get his ass on a plane and go get the idiot reporters. The Obama administration used a back door to get the reporters out.

Officially, Bill has no negotiating power at all with NK. This was purely a publicity stunt by EVERYONE involved, including the North Koreans.

fido
08-06-2009, 02:37 PM
I get what Pontius is saying and, to some extent agree.

Look, if you leave America and you break the laws of the country you are visiting, you should suffer those penalties, period. Whether they are just or not. Thats the risk you take when you leave America.

You dont like it, dont leave America. I wont. I dont trust any other country out there including western european countries.

On the flip side, I am certainly glad they made it home safe.

:thumbs:

well said

fido
08-06-2009, 02:40 PM
+1 for caring unconditionally about fellow Americans.

caring about them? yes....however they were not very bright in breaking a sovereign country's laws.

Mr. Elway
08-06-2009, 02:45 PM
I believe in diplomacy, but not "forced" diplomacy - i.e. we had to send over a former President to beg for the release of two idiots who crossed a border illegally (they said Al Gore was not acceptable). Meaning, we did it on the NK terms. That's hardly diplomacy. That's turning the tables.

I don't think it was forced, I think it was an opportunity and we took it. It's not like our nation had a lot to lose - plenty of Americans don't get rescued from foreign prisons. The imprisonment made NK look bad, but it hardly forced our hand.

fido
08-06-2009, 02:47 PM
Rock do you have a passport? How often have you traveled overseas? The way you post on this topic it seems as though you haven't done so very much if not at all.

I have to agree with Rock Chalk here.

fido
08-06-2009, 02:54 PM
Exactly!!!

Had a Republican been in the WH during the Cuban Missile Crisis......none of us would be posting on the Orangemane today!

It took a Democrat President to show diplomacy for cooler heads to all prevail. Simply put.....REPUBLICANS-PRESIDENTS SUCK at diplomacy.

The GOP would rather go to war or have a nuclear exchange or use tactical nukes on 3rd world countries to save face or to show their dominance rather than seek peace or show diplomatic diplomacy.

maybe, but it took the great jfk - DEMOCRAT - to go with Vietnam......:kiss: