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rastaman
08-05-2009, 09:10 AM
The reason the Windy City has been buzzing all spring and summer about football is simple: Jay Cutler. After decades of making do with quarterbacks who had fatal flaws and season after promising season going down the tubes because defenses didn't have to worry about a signal-caller who could single-handedly beating them, the Bears now have their man. Cutler finished third in the NFL in passing yards last year, second in pass attempts, 10th in yards per attempt and seventh in touchdown passes. He's got a cannon and can make any throw you need. And the big question entering training camp is: will the Bears unleash him?

Numerous stories out of Chicago this summer have quoted offensive coordinator Ron Turner as saying he won't try to change Cutler's aggressive nature, he won't stay an arch-conservative play caller and he won't be as predictable as he's been accused of being in the recent past. But can a leopard change his spots?

It's true that damning Turner in advance could be unfair: He's never been handed a quarterback with Cutler's ability. Still, with that ability comes a gunslinger's mentality that's often led to boneheaded plays. After all, Cutler was also second in the NFL in interceptions last year, behind only Mr. King Bonehead himself, Brett Favre. What'll happen when Turner and Lovie Smith see Cutler make one of his patented "force-in" throws that loses their team a game late? Will we see a return to a run/pass mix that saw the Matt Forte finish fourth in the league in carries as a rookie?

Sure, there'll be other questions in Chicago's training camp. Will a much-maligned receiving corps be able to step up and match Cutler? Can any of the newly acquired tackles do enough to protect Cutler's blind side? And will the defense stay healthy and/or effective enough to keep the Bears in games? But for the time being, the Cutler/Turner meshing is the big storyline to follow.

What to look for in camp

Key position battles: Is Devin Hester really a No. 1 wide receiver? I tend to think not. He's fast, yes, but he's yet to show the kind of polished route running all over the field that top quarterbacks want. I'd like him much better as a No. 2 speed threat, but this is the hand Cutler's been dealt. The real question is the receiving depth chart after Hester. Cutler's former college teammate, Earl Bennett, looks like the favorite for the second spot, but he had exactly zero catches (and a single punt return) in his rookie year. That's a big step up. Holdover Rashied Davis and rookies Juaquin Iglesias and Johnny Knox figure to get into the mix at least for third-receiver duties, but if Bennett falters, it won't be a shock to see someone else get a chance to start.

Chicago Bears

Will newly acquired quarterback Jay Cutler bend to the Bears' conservative ways, or will he change them?

Key Additions
QB Jay Cutler
OT Orlando Pace
WR Juaquin Iglesias
WR Johnny Knox
OT Frank Omiyale
OT Kevin Shaffer
Key Losses
QB Kyle Orton
QB Rex Grossman
WR Marty Booker
OT John St. Clair
OT John Tait
Probable Lineup
QB1 Jay Cutler
RB1 Matt Forte
RB2 Kevin Jones
WR1 Devin Hester
WR2 Earl Bennett
WR3 Rashied Davis
TE1 Greg Olsen
K Robbie Gould
Preseason Schedule
@ BUF Aug. 15, 7:00 p.m.
NYG Aug. 22, 8:00 p.m.
@ DEN Aug. 30, 8:00 p.m.
CLE Sept. 3, 8:00 p.m.
All times ET

At tight end, both Greg Olsen and Desmond Clark are back again, but as last season wore on, it became clearer that Olsen was by far the preferred receiving threat in the Chicago offense. He should be the more draftable fantasy commodity by far, with Clark (remember he was originally a converted offensive lineman) serving mainly as an annoying vulture. But fantasy owners considering taking Olsen early would do well to pay attention and make sure this situation doesn't get fuzzier in camp.

On defense, corner Nathan Vasher will have to prove he can stay healthy and hold off Corey Graham (who was significantly better than a hobbled Vasher in '08) in camp. With Mike Brown cut (and subsequently signing with the Chiefs), the Bears have a significant vacancy at free safety. Craig Steltz, Josh Bullocks, Danieal Manning and Glenn Earl all will get a look, but it's an experienced but relatively underwhelming group. If Chicago doesn't prove that it can get a better push with its mercurial defensive line, it could be exposed.

Fitting in: The obvious choice to analyze here is Cutler, a square peg who may have to fit into Smith's and Turner's round hole. Rex Grossman had a big arm but terrible accuracy issues, while Kyle Orton had fewer physical tools and better game-management skills, but forced enough bad plays to make his coaches gun-shy. The truth is, of course, that training camp won't really tell the story when it comes to Cutler. He's got the job, and the regular season's first month will show us the truth about the Bears' run/pass mix.

The rookie receivers present a more interesting training camp case. Iglesias was heralded (along with Browns draftee Brian Robiskie) as one of the more NFL-ready possession receivers in April's draft, but there have been conflicting reports out of Bears minicamp regarding his actual readiness. Some reporters who attended Chicago's OTAs this spring and summer believe that Iglesias' fellow rookie, Johnny Knox, was actually a more impressive player, and could see significant action sooner. Knox posted the fastest 40 time at the Draft Combine this winter, and thus could represent a slot threat Cutler couldn't out-throw. Where these guys fit into the receiving plans will almost certainly get clearer during camp.

On the line: With last year's left tackle John St. Clair gone and right tackle John Tait retired, the Bears have significant questions on the perimeter of their offensive line. Once the Rams cut future Hall of Famer Orlando Pace, Chicago pounced, and Pace will get first crack at guarding Cutler's blind side. But there are real questions about Pace's ability to stay healthy, and any objective observer would admit he's lost a step regardless. So the Bears brought in journeymen like Frank Omiyale and Kevin Shaffer, who, if they're forced into significant action, could be shaky. And this is to say nothing of second-year man Chris Williams, whose health issues pretty much made a bust of his rookie season. He'll try to nail down the right-tackle job in camp. Matt Forte's fantasy value -- and Jay Cutler's health -- could very well depend on how these guys acquit themselves in August.

The bottom line

Between Cutler, Forte and Olsen, the Bears have three of fantasy's highest-upside players entering 2009. But while Forte was an elite receiving back in '08, there is a tension between the fantasy values of a quarterback and rusher on the same team. Will Cutler's presence convince the Bears to lessen the running load on Forte? Will Forte's excellent rookie year curb the need to let Cutler fling it 40 times per game? Pay attention to stories coming out of Chicago's camp to try to read the tea leaves, because there's a potential for three extremely high fantasy draft picks on an offense that hasn't always been able to make that claim.

Christopher Harris is a fantasy analyst for ESPN.com. He is a six-time Fantasy Sports Writers Association award winner. You can e-mail him here.

Rock Chalk
08-05-2009, 09:12 AM
Go ask a bear fan.

Hotrod
08-05-2009, 09:13 AM
It really does not matter how they want to use him. He will lock on to one person and go deep repeatedly with the game on the line.

Spider
08-05-2009, 09:14 AM
Bears use Jay as a QB would be my guess

Dagmar
08-05-2009, 09:17 AM
Do I have to jack this thread like I did last night?

lex
08-05-2009, 09:18 AM
That was a good read. Thanks for posting that.

Los Broncos
08-05-2009, 09:19 AM
I heard he'll be returning kicks.

broncofan2438
08-05-2009, 09:24 AM
Hey, I heard this was a Broncos board.....Cutler aint a Bronco, get this crap outta here

521 1N5
08-05-2009, 09:29 AM
I am interested in this only to see how he does next year (for obvious reasons) other than that I could give a **** how they use him. Thanks for the post though. Good read.

cabronco
08-05-2009, 09:44 AM
Urlacher will use him like a pinata after forced throws into triple coverage and pick sixes.
Jay will isolate himself at end of bench, mopingly looking for father's support.

TailgateNut
08-05-2009, 09:52 AM
urlacher will use him like a pinata after forced throws into triple coverage and pick sixes.
Jay will isolate himself at end of bench, mopingly looking for father's support.

^5

80smith
08-05-2009, 09:53 AM
All I know is that the bears tight ends will be in the pro bowl this year. It's true. Just listen to WSCR 670 the score.

Inkana7
08-05-2009, 09:56 AM
Urlacher picked off Cutler yesterday. Awesome.

Kaylore
08-05-2009, 09:58 AM
I predict the Bears will ask Cutler to throw the ball to their eligible players in each game. I do think to kind of trick the defenses they will have Cutler give the ball to Matt Forte.

Popps
08-05-2009, 10:00 AM
Hey, I heard this was a Broncos board.....Cutler aint a Bronco, get this crap outta here

Rastagirl isn't a Broncos fan, so it all works out perfectly.

~Crash~
08-05-2009, 10:25 AM
great read . Forte will still have a great year IMO and I think they will not change O that much . why the hate guys ? this is a FF piece so why would you get all huffy about FF ?

colonelbeef
08-05-2009, 10:28 AM
He will be the same player, just a year smarter. He was improved every year in the league so far, and will continue to do so. His receivers will look better than they are, as will the OL due to his pocket awareness. Forte will have a career year this year, bank on it

Dagmar
08-05-2009, 10:28 AM
http://www.gifnation.com/funny/image/595/dickinabox2.gif

_Oro_
08-05-2009, 10:36 AM
I predict total collapse in Bear land. With a gunslinger for a QB, their recently shaky defense finally collapses. This is great for Cutler as he can continue placing the blame on the D. But don't forget about possibly the League's worst offense on a paper. No offensive line, a number 3 or 4 WR as a their number one. A QB who won't hand it off to their best player Forte. I see a total collapse and a really high pick for us. Thank you Seattle.

Gcver2ver3
08-05-2009, 10:37 AM
Go ask a bear fan.

after the cutler trade, that became like a 3rd of the Mane's population...

Kaylore
08-05-2009, 10:38 AM
as will the OL due to his pocket awareness.
This is a pretty stupid comment. Jay doesn't have good pocket awareness. It's one of the reasons he'd panic and throw interceptions.

TonyR
08-05-2009, 10:40 AM
He will be the same player, just a year smarter. He was improved every year in the league so far, and will continue to do so. His receivers will look better than they are, as will the OL due to his pocket awareness. Forte will have a career year this year, bank on it

Did you see rainbows and butterflies while posting this?

~Crash~
08-05-2009, 10:44 AM
after the cutler trade, that became like a 3rd of the Mane's population...

I wish Cutler the very best . I belive he will win a SB way before the Broncos do . I don't hate him for saying the truth.

rastaman
08-05-2009, 10:48 AM
Rastagirl isn't a Broncos fan, so it all works out perfectly.

Spoken like a true "Knuckle Dragging" Neanderthal Narrow minded Bronco Fan!

Remember you can be a Bronco Fan and have favorite player(s) or coaches from other teams.

rastaman
08-05-2009, 10:53 AM
I predict total collapse in Bear land. With a gunslinger for a QB, their recently shaky defense finally collapses. This is great for Cutler as he can continue placing the blame on the D. But don't forget about possibly the League's worst offense on a paper. No offensive line, a number 3 or 4 WR as a their number one. A QB who won't hand it off to their best player Forte. I see a total collapse and a really high pick for us. Thank you Seattle.

So I guess this year will be Orton's break out year and stats wise he should make the Pro Bowl......RIGHT! After all, Orton has one of the best OL in the NFL, he has Royal and Marshall to throw to, he has great TE's to throw to, and he is playing for McD the offensive Master mind. There should be no excuses for the veteran Orton.

broncofan2438
08-05-2009, 10:56 AM
I predict total collapse in Bear land. With a gunslinger for a QB, their recently shaky defense finally collapses. This is great for Cutler as he can continue placing the blame on the D. But don't forget about possibly the League's worst offense on a paper. No offensive line, a number 3 or 4 WR as a their number one. A QB who won't hand it off to their best player Forte. I see a total collapse and a really high pick for us. Thank you Seattle.

Me to!

_Oro_
08-05-2009, 11:07 AM
So I guess this year will be Orton's break out year and stats wise he should make the Pro Bowl......RIGHT! After all, Orton has one of the best OL in the NFL, he has Royal and Marshall to throw to, he has great TE's to throw to, and he is playing for McD the offensive Master mind. There should be no excuses for the veteran Orton.

Why do you care so much about stats? I hope none of our players make the pro bowl and we go to the super bowl and win it. Or would you rather we had Cutler throw for 5k and we go 8-8 again?

_Oro_
08-05-2009, 11:08 AM
Me to!

Okay this doesn't bode well for my prediction.

~Crash~
08-05-2009, 11:09 AM
Spoken like a true "Knuckle Dragging" Neanderthal Narrow minded Bronco Fan!

Remember you can be a Bronco Fan and have favorite player(s) or coaches from other teams.

make sense to me .

~Crash~
08-05-2009, 11:10 AM
Why do you care so much about stats? I hope none of our players make the pro bowl and we go to the super bowl and win it. Or would you rather we had Cutler throw for 5k and we go 8-8 again?

oh my so you say it was cutler fault we went 8-8....hmmmmm

_Oro_
08-05-2009, 11:44 AM
oh my so you say it was cutler fault we went 8-8....hmmmmm

Did I say that?

ElwayMD
08-05-2009, 11:50 AM
Welcome to the Orange Mane, Americas premiere stop for Chicago Bears news.

azbroncfan
08-05-2009, 11:56 AM
They will allow Cutler to lock in to hester and force the ball with all his arm strength into double coverage.

NFLBRONCO
08-05-2009, 11:56 AM
I want to see what happens when Cutler gets PAID he already thinks he the greatest ever. It will be interesting to see how he deals with it and his work ethic after it.

misturanderson
08-05-2009, 12:00 PM
He will be the same player, just a year smarter. He was improved every year in the league so far, and will continue to do so. His receivers will look better than they are, as will the OL due to his pocket awareness. Forte will have a career year this year, bank on it

I would respond by saying that Cutler did nothing to improve his game last year. He still locked onto his primary target, he still threw into double coverage constantly, he still refused to check down to an open RB. All he did was have an improved cast of WRs(Bmarsh, Royal, Stokely>Younger Bmarsh, Stokely, injured/disgruntled Walker), RBs (Hillis, TBell, Pittman>Hall, Injured THenry, MBell) and O-line(Clady, Harris, Weigman>>>>>>>>>>>>>Lepsis, Pears, Meyers) around him. The other players and increased number of passes pretty much accounted for all of the increases in his stats.

jhns
08-05-2009, 12:09 PM
Lol, bronco fans are just funny now. You will all soon realize what team has the far superior qb. You will also all soon realize that cutler couldn't cut or trade himself. Him being gone is this teams fault, a lot of you seem to have this backwards.

I'm sure you all will love trying to talk crap about cutler in a couple years, after he makes this team the punchline of most nfl jokes. This was the worst move this team has ever made and one of the worst moves ever made by any team. I guess it is payback for us getting elway or something.

You all act like cutler was bad because he had a few flaws still in his second year playing. Not to mention he was playing with the broncos worst ever defense and pon a team that had a ton of injuries. 8-8 is a miracle with what he had to work with.

Go ahead and keep joking about him now though. You will look dumb doing it after this offseason is over. Cutler is easily going to have the last laugh in all of this.

Doggcow
08-05-2009, 12:15 PM
oh my so you say it was cutler fault we went 8-8....hmmmmm

I'd blame Cutler. He won like 5 games by himself despite our defense. (this is a compliment)

RonDaChamp24
08-05-2009, 12:17 PM
Bears use Jay as a QB would be my guess

I was going to say that.

ColoradoDarin
08-05-2009, 12:20 PM
I predict the Bears will have Cutler line up in the back of quarter position, receive the ball from the center and either hand off to the back of running or throw the ball to the receiver that is wide or the fat guys who think they are receivers.

Oh, it's a fantasy article and not about real football. In that case... whatever, let me know if those fantasy stats ever count in the w/l column.

RonDaChamp24
08-05-2009, 12:21 PM
Lol, bronco fans are just funny now. You will all soon realize what team has the far superior qb. You will also all soon realize that cutler couldn't cut or trade himself. Him being gone is this teams fault, a lot of you seem to have this backwards.

I'm sure you all will love trying to talk crap about cutler in a couple years, after he makes this team the punchline of most nfl jokes. This was the worst move this team has ever made and one of the worst moves ever made by any team. I guess it is payback for us getting elway or something.

You all act like cutler was bad because he had a few flaws still in his second year playing. Not to mention he was playing with the broncos worst ever defense and pon a team that had a ton of injuries. 8-8 is a miracle with what he had to work with.

Go ahead and keep joking about him now though. You will look dumb doing it after this offseason is over. Cutler is easily going to have the last laugh in all of this.


I agree with some of this. It's why I pretty much keep my mouth shut when it comes to Cutler. I think he's going to be very good (even for the Bears) and I'm sad to see him go. Although, I root for the team and not the player. I have no ill will towards Cutler. He's still a great talent and it's too bad he's not still on our team. A lot of people that point out mistakes that Cutler has made don't realize that some of them are fixable. Matter of fact, most of them are (like locking on to a receiver, or throwing deep with the game on the line). I'm sure he'll be just fine with the Bears, and the Broncos will be just fine with Orton, or whoever we draft or sign to replace Cutler in the future. The 2 things Cutler does need to work on is his apparently thin skin, and his body language.

misturanderson
08-05-2009, 12:31 PM
A lot of people that point out mistakes that Cutler has made don't realize that some of them are fixable. Matter of fact, most of them are (like locking on to a receiver, or throwing deep with the game on the line).

Problem is that he didn't show any improvement on these fronts between years 2 and 3 that couldn't be accounted for by better talent around him. His completion % went down, his YPA went down, his TDs only went up by 5 while his INTs went up by 4, all this while being sacked 16 fewer times. He did fumble less though.

TonyR
08-05-2009, 12:37 PM
A lot of people that point out mistakes that Cutler has made don't realize that some of them are fixable. Matter of fact, most of them are...

Maybe. But Brett Favre's weaknesses only became more pronounced as he aged and the talent around him declined. If I were to compare Cutler to any QB it would be Favre. Seeing how Jay does with an inferior supporting cast in Chi is going to be very interesting.

DBroncos4life
08-05-2009, 12:43 PM
Maybe. But Brett Favre's weaknesses only became more pronounced as he aged and the talent around him declined. If I were to compare Cutler to any QB it would be Favre. Seeing how Jay does with an inferior supporting cast in Chi is going to be very interesting.

I'm sure the Bears fans would be upset if Cutler went on to have a career like Brett Farve's. Uhh

misturanderson
08-05-2009, 12:58 PM
I'm sure the Bears fans would be upset if Cutler went on to have a career like Brett Farve's. Uhh

They might be if he doesn't have the best team in the league around him like Favre did when he played as an MVP/SB champ in his prime.

Dark Helmet
08-05-2009, 01:00 PM
Crappy line - Minus
Crappy WR - Minus
Prone to INTs - Minus
Prone to Fumble - Minus
Good TE - Plus
Weak Schedule - Plus
Good RB - Plus
Attitude - Minus
Crappy Offensive Coordinater - Minus

Cutler - 10 TDs, 8 INTs, 7 Fumbles, 2 concussions, 1 broken hand by way of D-Helmet. Out by week 7.

NFLBRONCO
08-05-2009, 01:05 PM
Crappy line - Minus
Crappy WR - Minus
Prone to INTs - Minus
Prone to Fumble - Minus
Good TE - Plus
Weak Schedule - Plus
Good RB - Plus
Attitude - Minus
Crappy Offensive Coordinater - Minus

Cutler - 10 TDs, 8 INTs, 7 Fumbles, 2 concussions, 1 broken hand by way of D-Helmet. Out by week 7.

Cutler is mobile I think he can survive a weak OL. Better QB ability strengthens WR corp some. I'd give slight minus to OL and WR.

footstepsfrom#27
08-05-2009, 01:16 PM
It doesn't matter what Cutler does from here on; even if he wins multiple Super Bowls in Chicago a good portion of the Denver fan base will insist he's not that good. I've heard Raven fans who felt jilted in 1983 to this day suggest that Elway was overrated. I think probably 50% of this board has an emotional need to protect themselves from reality by doing the same thing with Cutler. Chicago may not win immediately...I doubt they will care. They'll build around him the talent they need...Lovie Smith has proven he could get to the Super Bowl with an inferior QB. There's no reason he can't get there with a far superior one. And Cutler is a superior QB. He may have learning issues like all young QB's do, but he's a top 3 talent in the NFL at the position. I've come to grips with it and I hope McD is everything he's cracked up to be instead of just another Belichick understudy who fails. Hopefully the change in philosophy will be worth the hit we took on this. If we win like we used to everyone will be happy...if not this will go down as the worst trade in Bronco history. Either way...I'm tired of the topic.

_Oro_
08-05-2009, 01:24 PM
I'm sure the Bears fans would be upset if Cutler went on to have a career like Brett Farve's. Uhh

I've said this before, but I'd be completely okay with Cutler going on to have a career like Favre. Favre is perhaps the most overrated QB ever. Sure he squeaked a lot of crap teams into the playoffs but that was it. Other than one super bowl (and one appearance) what did he do that was so great? In all likelihood Cutler will turn out to be a crappy Favre. He's got the Favre cannon and crappy decision making, even some of the toughness. But he doesn't have the leadership and he does have Type 1. With all the excitement of training camp going on right now, I'm feeling better and better about losing Cutler and starting to think this trade may go down as one of the all time blunders for Chicago not the Broncos.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2009, 01:27 PM
Its a little early to compare Cutler to Favre. I think the comparison is being made by defualt, that is, who else are we gonna compare Cutler too? Cutler has a unique set of talents that IMHO are better than Favres (he's big, he's mobil, he's smart & he can make all the thows). Will his style/abilities translate to wins with the Bears? I think so.

In reality, the Bears don't have to change their offense in order to win with Cutler. They can do the power running game and win with a great defense. All Cutler has to do is NOT turn the ball over at crucial moments, convert on third downs and score TDs in the red zone. He doesn't have to sling the ball all over the place.

I'm pretty sure Jay is smart enough to know that IF he wants a long term deal with the Bears, it's going to come down to winning games, not just throwing for 300 yards per game.

The NFCN is an interesting division this year. Packers should be good, Vikings should be good and now the Bears should be good. The Bears with Cutler have a ligit shot to win the division.

_Oro_
08-05-2009, 01:30 PM
Its a little early to compare Cutler to Favre. I think the comparison is being made by defualt, that is, who else are we gonna compare Cutler too? Cutler has a unique set of talents that IMHO are better than Favres (he's big, he's mobil, he's smart & he can make all the thows). Will his style/abilities translate to wins with the Bears? I think so.

In reality, the Bears don't have to change their offense in order to win with Cutler. They can do the power running game and win with a great defense. All Cutler has to do is NOT turn the ball over at crucial moments, convert on third downs and score TDs in the red zone. He doesn't have to sling the ball all over the place.

I'm pretty sure Jay is smart enough to know that IF he wants a long term deal with the Bears, it's going to come down to winning games, not just throwing for 300 yards per game.

The NFCN is an interesting division this year. Packers should be good, Vikings should be good and now the Bears should be good. The Bears with Cutler have a ligit shot to win the division.

That's the point. Does the bolded above sound like Cutler?

DBroncos4life
08-05-2009, 01:37 PM
I've said this before, but I'd be completely okay with Cutler going on to have a career like Favre. Favre is perhaps the most overrated QB ever. Sure he squeaked a lot of crap teams into the playoffs but that was it. Other than one super bowl (and one appearance) what did he do that was so great? In all likelihood Cutler will turn out to be a crappy Favre. He's got the Favre cannon and crappy decision making, even some of the toughness. But he doesn't have the leadership and he does have Type 1. With all the excitement of training camp going on right now, I'm feeling better and better about losing Cutler and starting to think this trade may go down as one of the all time blunders for Chicago not the Broncos.

More wins then any QB, 50,000 plus yards, multiple pro bowls, more starts at QB then any other QB in history, other then that he was par with most avg QBs to take a snap in the NFL. Brett Farve had a NFL career that most would dream to have even if you think he is over rated.

TonyR
08-05-2009, 01:44 PM
...but he's a top 3 position in the NFL at the position.

He isn't one of the 3 best QB's in the NFL and I'll assume you're smart enough to know this. Perhaps you mean top 3 in the Mountain Time Zone? Or top 3 in the AFC West? Or did you really mean top 3 talent with the potential to maybe be a top 3 QB some day after Brady, Manning, Rivers, Brees, McNabb, etc. age and/or retire?

TailgateNut
08-05-2009, 01:45 PM
It doesn't matter what Cutler does from here on; even if he wins multiple Super Bowls in Chicago a good portion of the Denver fan base will insist he's not that good. I've heard Raven fans who felt jilted in 1983 to this day suggest that Elway was overrated. I think probably 50% of this board has an emotional need to protect themselves from reality by doing the same thing with Cutler. Chicago may not win immediately...I doubt they will care. They'll build around him the talent they need...Lovie Smith has proven he could get to the Super Bowl with an inferior QB. There's no reason he can't get there with a far superior one. And Cutler is a superior QB. He may have learning issues like all young QB's do, but he's a top 3 position in the NFL at the position. I've come to grips with it and I hope McD is everything he's cracked up to be instead of just another Belichick understudy who fails. Hopefully the change in philosophy will be worth the hit we took on this. If we win like we used to everyone will be happy...if not this will go down as the worst trade in Bronco history. Either way...I'm tired of the topic.


TOP 3 is where I stopped reading to cough up a bit o lunch.

underrated29
08-05-2009, 01:47 PM
They are all going to have big seasons. Forte especially. He will get tons of dump offs and he wont have to worry about safties stacking the box all that often.

The TE should have a huge year- chris olsen.

Jay will do well. Obviously, not as many yards, but i bet his tds are up and his picks are down.

All 3 should be great FF options. I know i am looking at Jay and Olsen in the later rounds. I am not going to reach for them, but they are on my target list of players.

Plus they have a really really really easy schedule, on paper.

Tombstone RJ
08-05-2009, 01:49 PM
That's the point. Does the bolded above sound like Cutler?

Slinging the ball around and turnovers generally go hand in hand. My point is that Cutler is a good enough QB to know that if he can work within the Bear's system and win games, he'll get the big fat contract.

I don't think the Bear's offensive scheme requires the QB to sling the ball around, but I could be wrong.

footstepsfrom#27
08-05-2009, 01:49 PM
TOP 3 is where I stopped reading to cough up a bit o lunch.
**Edit: what I meant is that he's a top 3 talent at the position. He obviously hasn't gotten to top 3 yet, but he's the complete package talent-wise. That's not a radical opinion.

rastaman
08-05-2009, 01:58 PM
That's the point. Does the bolded above sound like Cutler?

Here's one thing that should really help Cutler's game in Chicago: While the Bears don't have the 2006 version of their defense anymore, what Cutler got used to in Denver was a team that played virtually no D. In other words, Cutler shouldn't have to put 38 points per game up in order to win.

Cutler quote:

"It's great, because I'm not going to throw the ball 38 times a game either," he said. "We can get a more balanced attack and control the clock a little bit more. Let the defense and special teams work for us."

This doesn't sound like a Qb with a reckless "Gunslinger" mentality.....does it!

Devin Hester quote:

"If he has a long career here, he's going to be one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play in Chicago," he said.

rastaman
08-05-2009, 02:11 PM
They will allow Cutler to lock in to hester and force the ball with all his arm strength into double coverage.

As a few of Jay Cutlerís teammates have said, the new Bears quarterback has been as good as advertised to this point in training camp. Cutler's teammates have been very impressed with his arm strength and accuracy just as I was in watching him throughout offseason practices.

He makes throws they have never seen from a Bears quarterback and that includes Kyle Orton, but not every pass is a blazing fastball. He knows when to put some touch on his passes as well. Another thing that has also impressed fans and teammates about Cutler has been his willingness to check down to tight ends and running backs when receivers arenít open down the field. The one knock against him is that heíll try to force passes into coverage and I havenít seen that in the first few days of camp.

Bronx33
08-05-2009, 02:16 PM
The bears fans will use him as a whipping post after 7 games.

Popps
08-05-2009, 02:17 PM
Here's one thing that should really help Cutler's game in Chicago: While the Bears don't have the 2006 version of their defense anymore, what Cutler got used to in Denver was a team that played virtually no D. In other words, Cutler shouldn't have to put 38 points per game up in order to win.

Cutler quote:

"It's great, because I'm not going to throw the ball 38 times a game either," he said. "We can get a more balanced attack and control the clock a little bit more. Let the defense and special teams work for us."

This doesn't sound like a Qb with a reckless "Gunslinger" mentality.....does it!

Devin Hester quote:

"If he has a long career here, he's going to be one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play in Chicago," he said.



Do your knees ever get sore?

~Crash~
08-05-2009, 02:28 PM
As a few of Jay Cutlerís teammates have said, the new Bears quarterback has been as good as advertised to this point in training camp. Cutler's teammates have been very impressed with his arm strength and accuracy just as I was in watching him throughout offseason practices.

He makes throws they have never seen from a Bears quarterback and that includes Kyle Orton, but not every pass is a blazing fastball. He knows when to put some touch on his passes as well. Another thing that has also impressed fans and teammates about Cutler has been his willingness to check down to tight ends and running backs when receivers arenít open down the field. The one knock against him is that heíll try to force passes into coverage and I havenít seen that in the first few days of camp.

his forces had a lot to do with our D but you will not get that from the haters...

Bronx33
08-05-2009, 02:32 PM
Do your knees ever get sore?


They will when the bears OL gets cutler killed...........maybe

misturanderson
08-05-2009, 02:32 PM
his forces had a lot to do with our D but you will not get that from the haters...

That's because that isn't an excuse to throw a 30 yd. pass into triple coverage on 2nd and 5 when there is a TE running wide open 10 yards down field. He wasn't forcing those throws because he wanted to score every play, he was doing it because he didn't know how to survey the field and he THOUGHT he could throw the ball between those 3 defenders to his primary target.

Bronx33
08-05-2009, 02:33 PM
his forces had a lot to do with our D but you will not get that from the haters...


Hmmmmm throwing into triple coverage as the Ds fault?

DBroncos4life
08-05-2009, 02:40 PM
Hmmmmm throwing into triple coverage as the Ds fault?

6 forced turnovers on D and we have to question the play of the QB. Cutler even says now he won't be forced to pass as much and should have a more balanced attack.

Do you really believe Denver gave Cutler the best it could last year from the D? Do you really believe that Denver didn't force Cutler to try and make throws when he shouldn't because we were behind?

Plummer did the samething in AZ and played better when he got to a team that was better on D. I don't see any reason to think that Cutler isn't capable of doing the samething.

~Crash~
08-05-2009, 02:43 PM
Hmmmmm throwing into triple coverage as the Ds fault?

yep. when you are playing with the idea that you have to score every time you touch the ball yes you just might be willing to wing it . I never seen Shanahan get to upset with Jay so I would say he was telling him to fit the ball into tight spots and not sweat the small stuff you work on during the off season .

I believe Shanahan was aiming for year 4 for Cutler to get the little thing's that is the goal for QB's in the NFL.

Blueflame
08-05-2009, 03:10 PM
I've said this before, but I'd be completely okay with Cutler going on to have a career like Favre. Favre is perhaps the most overrated QB ever. Sure he squeaked a lot of crap teams into the playoffs but that was it. Other than one super bowl (and one appearance) what did he do that was so great? In all likelihood Cutler will turn out to be a crappy Favre. He's got the Favre cannon and crappy decision making, even some of the toughness. But he doesn't have the leadership and he does have Type 1. With all the excitement of training camp going on right now, I'm feeling better and better about losing Cutler and starting to think this trade may go down as one of the all time blunders for Chicago not the Broncos.

Oh, he didn't do much...just earned NFL MVP honors in 3 consecutive seasons. ::)

He'll be a first-ballot shoo-in for the Hall of Fame.

lex
08-05-2009, 03:12 PM
Oh, he didn't do much...just earned NFL MVP honors in 3 consecutive seasons. ::)

He'll be a first-ballot shoo-in for the Hall of Fame.


He only deserved one of them. But nonetheless, we all know he was a great player in those days.

Blueflame
08-05-2009, 03:19 PM
He only deserved one of them. But nonetheless, we all know he was a great player in those days.

Y'know... had Favre retired a few seasons ago when age first started to erode his performance instead of futilely trying to pretend he could still play like a 25-year-old, few football fans would even suggest using the term "overrated" to describe him. No, he's not going out on top (as SB MVP) like Elway did...but he's also not going out "benched for ineffectiveness in a 62-7 playoff blowout" like Marino did either. He will (deservedly) have his place in Canton...

Mr. Elway
08-05-2009, 03:26 PM
Cutler also is no longer going to have the benefit of Shanahan's coaching. Will he listen to the Bears' coaching staff if and when they tell him to play more conservative? How will he fare with less time to throw and less talented receivers? If he stares down Hester or Bennett the way he locked onto Marshall, how much more of a liability will that be?

I think there are a lot of question marks. As far as long term success goes we will have to see, no one knows yet. As far as FF goes this year he is a risk and a late rounder only IMO.

underrated29
08-05-2009, 03:35 PM
What amazes me is that fans take this so personally. And get their azzes chapped so fast.

How anyone could take what happenes in another persons life- a football players life, which has absolutely ZERO to do directly with any of us personally is completly crazy to me.

Jay got pissed and took it up the butt. So what. All you hater fans are doing the exact same thing. Yet none of you are/were involved. None of you know him directly yet i hear time and time again....

Jay will get killed. He will throw tons of pick 6's, he only forces the ball in triple coverage, he is jeff goerge nothing more. Always throws Ints, never makes a smart play.

Insanity!

How many pick 6's has jay thrown? 2? Dont his numbers look really similiar to tony romo and donovan mcnabb. They suck too right? They always throw into triple coverage and pick six. All they are is rocket armed qbs.

Yall need to quit taking it personally and look at it with an open mind.

Jay is a sick QB who is a stud. A whiny stud. But a stud nonetheless. But for those that will still take it personally, dont watch the bears this year as you are going to not enjoy football. (playoffs too).

underrated29
08-05-2009, 03:39 PM
Cutler also is no longer going to have the benefit of Shanahan's coaching. Will he listen to the Bears' coaching staff if and when they tell him to play more conservative? How will he fare with less time to throw and less talented receivers? If he stares down Hester or Bennett the way he locked onto Marshall, how much more of a liability will that be?

I think there are a lot of question marks. As far as long term success goes we will have to see, no one knows yet. As far as FF goes this year he is a risk and a late rounder only IMO.



All good points there. If the bears had better WR then i think he would be a safe bet within the the 4-6 range. For now i am targetting him around 8-10. I agree though his biggest mistake is staring down WR. As for the coaching and what not i do not think that will be an issue. Remember two years ago, we werent this high flying offense and did "dumb" down the calling a fair amount. Probably not to what the bears will do but he should be fine.

jhns
08-05-2009, 03:40 PM
Lol, this is exactly what I was saying. You guys sound like cutler stole your candy.

I forgot that crappy players who always throw into triple coverage and don't know how to play the game are able to get 27 tds and throw for over 4500 yards (like 18th all time single season passing yards).

What cutler does for a team is produce FAR more good than bad. That is exactly what he did for us. Just look at the record of any qb in history that had this bad of defense. Look at their records when the defense gives up more than 25 points. Cutler wins as much as any of the best ever in these circumstances.

You guys really think chicago is going to force cutler to carry the team and throw 35 times a game? The fact that he doesn't have to carry that team will allow him to not force things all the time because he won't be afraid of letting the defense on the field.

Also I would love for some of you to point out these times he threw into triple coverage with wide open guys 10 yards down field. I have all the games recorded so I can go see what you are talking about if you tell me where. The last time someone tried to point this stuff out they had no idea what they were talking about. They saw people open on tv after the ball was thrown and the defenders had broken away from coverage to chase the ball.

~Crash~
08-05-2009, 03:46 PM
Lol, this is exactly what I was saying. You guys sound like cutler stole your candy.

I forgot that crappy players who always throw into triple coverage and don't know how to play the game are able to get 27 tds and throw for over 4500 yards (like 18th all time single season passing yards).

What cutler does for a team is produce FAR more good than bad. That is exactly what he did for us. Just look at the record of any qb in history that had this bad of defense. Look at their records when the defense gives up more than 25 points. Cutler wins as much as any of the best ever in these circumstances.

You guys really think chicago is going to force cutler to carry the team and throw 35 times a game? The fact that he doesn't have to carry that team will allow him to not force things all the time because he won't be afraid of letting the defense on the field.

Also I would love for some of you to point out these times he threw into triple coverage with wide open guys 10 yards down field. I have all the games recorded so I can go see what you are talking about if you tell me where. The last time someone tried to point this stuff out they had no idea what they were talking about. They saw people open on tv after the ball was thrown and the defenders had broken away from coverage to chase the ball.

Sorry Jhns Cutler was really bad at not checking down this is just fact .

but this was something he was going to work on during the off season . thing is he is smart as hell and he would of gotten better each year .

the reason josh got rid of cutler was simple the patsie said his chin was weak .

Mr. Elway
08-05-2009, 03:47 PM
As for the coaching and what not i do not think that will be an issue. Remember two years ago, we werent this high flying offense and did "dumb" down the calling a fair amount. Probably not to what the bears will do but he should be fine.

That's true, but since then Jay has tasted of success and the Pro Bowl, and I suspect he likes that a lot. Without Shanahan there to mentor him, it could go either way: Maybe he matures and realizes he needs to adjust his game to the benefit of his team, or maybe he continues further down the path of risking it all for the big play, only without the advantages he had last year.

If he can be landed as a late rounder, he certainly has a high upside for 2009 though.

azbroncfan
08-05-2009, 04:13 PM
As a few of Jay Cutlerís teammates have said, the new Bears quarterback has been as good as advertised to this point in training camp. Cutler's teammates have been very impressed with his arm strength and accuracy just as I was in watching him throughout offseason practices.

He makes throws they have never seen from a Bears quarterback and that includes Kyle Orton, but not every pass is a blazing fastball. He knows when to put some touch on his passes as well. Another thing that has also impressed fans and teammates about Cutler has been his willingness to check down to tight ends and running backs when receivers arenít open down the field. The one knock against him is that heíll try to force passes into coverage and I havenít seen that in the first few days of camp.

Of course they did. What do you expect him to say about him? Cutler was terrible at checking down or throwing to the flat in Denver and would throw to double and triple coverage.

Atlas
08-05-2009, 05:27 PM
They might be if he doesn't have the best team in the league around him like Favre did when he played as an MVP/SB champ in his prime.

Farve won three NFL MVPs.

jhns
08-05-2009, 05:31 PM
Sorry Jhns Cutler was really bad at not checking down this is just fact .

but this was something he was going to work on during the off season . thing is he is smart as hell and he would of gotten better each year .

the reason josh got rid of cutler was simple the patsie said his chin was weak .

I know that he was bad at checking down. I am saying he wasn't throwing into triple coverage with wide open guys underneath. You guys are exagerating how much he threw into coverage. Most of the interceptions and near interceptions where just bad reads that didn't see underneath guys drop back. I'm pretty sure he never saw them and that wouldn't be triple coverage on the receivers.

He does throw it into tighter windows than most but that is because he can. When he throws into those tight windows that he is trying for, it ended really good for us a lot more than it ended bad. He also wont have to do that his entire career. He has only done it on teams with a ton of injuries and really bad defenses. He has only done it when he was asked to carry a team. I doubt the Bears coaches let him do that because if anything, they trust that the defense and special teams will be a factor.

KevinJames
08-05-2009, 05:37 PM
I don't know but I heard Urlacher got him a new jersey made.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4922/urlach.jpg

azbroncfan
08-05-2009, 05:50 PM
I know that he was bad at checking down. I am saying he wasn't throwing into triple coverage with wide open guys underneath. You guys are exagerating how much he threw into coverage. Most of the interceptions and near interceptions where just bad reads that didn't see underneath guys drop back. I'm pretty sure he never saw them and that wouldn't be triple coverage on the receivers.

He does throw it into tighter windows than most but that is because he can. When he throws into those tight windows that he is trying for, it ended really good for us a lot more than it ended bad. He also wont have to do that his entire career. He has only done it on teams with a ton of injuries and really bad defenses. He has only done it when he was asked to carry a team. I doubt the Bears coaches let him do that because if anything, they trust that the defense and special teams will be a factor.

Rewatch the first KC game from last year and you will see the perfect example of Cutler forcing into coverage. Watch the Bills game and he kept both teams in the game and lost it at the end trying to jam it into a double covered Marshall.

TheReverend
08-05-2009, 06:15 PM
They might be if he doesn't have the best team in the league around him like Favre did when he played as an MVP/SB champ in his prime.

Name his receivers? lol

I'll help:
Antonio Freeman - sucked
Mark Chmura - sucked (also, I knew the girl he jailbaited in the hot-tub)
Sterling Sharpe for a bit - decent

Reminds me of Jay's Chi-town targets.

DBroncos4life
08-05-2009, 08:16 PM
I don't know but I heard Urlacher got him a new jersey made.

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4922/urlach.jpg

Is that what his diapers say for his kids too?

NUB
08-05-2009, 08:31 PM
Name his receivers? lol

I'll help:
Antonio Freeman - sucked
Mark Chmura - sucked (also, I knew the girl he jailbaited in the hot-tub)
Sterling Sharpe for a bit - decent

Reminds me of Jay's Chi-town targets.

I'm very confident that everyone in their right mind would take Sterling Sharpe and Antonio Freeman over Chicago's crew by a pretty big margin.

Inkana7
08-05-2009, 08:34 PM
Name his receivers? lol

I'll help:
Antonio Freeman - sucked
Mark Chmura - sucked (also, I knew the girl he jailbaited in the hot-tub)
Sterling Sharpe for a bit - decent

Reminds me of Jay's Chi-town targets.

I don't know if you're being serious or not here..

Punisher
08-05-2009, 08:41 PM
♫ ♪"If there's a bustle in your hedgerow,don't be alarmed now,it's just another Cutler thread."♫ ♪

Punisher
08-05-2009, 08:44 PM
How will Bears use Cutler?
Maybe they'll run a train on him,that's what i hear Bear Players like to do to Pl_lssies

TheReverend
08-05-2009, 09:11 PM
I'm very confident that everyone in their right mind would take Sterling Sharpe and Antonio Freeman over Chicago's crew by a pretty big margin.

I don't know if you're being serious or not here..

Misleading statement by me because I wasn't accurate enough and you two clearly don't know any better by your responses.

Sharpe and Freeman were the two best receivers he had during his tenure in GB until Driver/Jennings recently. Sharpe and Freeman never played together. In fact, Sharpe had retired by the time Brett was a house hold name in the late 90s.

Antonio Freeman was a mediocre football player and only broke 1k three times (coincidentally, the 3 seasons Brett won the MVP award)

The parallel between the receivers Chicago has NOW and the ones during Favre's MVP seasons is EXTREMELY applicable.

Don't believe me? Check here:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/statistics?season=1998&team=GB&seasonType=

Freeman's best season ever and a great one at that with 1400+ yards... and no one else to catch the ball... next best receiver? Statutory rapist Chuey with 550, and the #2 receiver caught a whopping 31 catches for 450 yards.

Hester, Bennett and the rooks can collectively crush their receiving production and Olsen is vastly superior to Chuey... not to mention Forte is already better than Dorsey "the horse" Levens ever was in every phase of the game.

NUB
08-05-2009, 09:22 PM
Huh.

As of right now Cutler's #1 receiver has never hit 1,000k and is still an unknown as far as being a #1 for an actual season goes.

His #2 hasn't caught a pass.


You'd take that over Favre's receivers? Really?

azbroncfan
08-05-2009, 09:25 PM
Misleading statement by me because I wasn't accurate enough and you two clearly don't know any better by your responses.

Sharpe and Freeman were the two best receivers he had during his tenure in GB until Driver/Jennings recently. Sharpe and Freeman never played together. In fact, Sharpe had retired by the time Brett was a house hold name in the late 90s.

Antonio Freeman was a mediocre football player and only broke 1k three times (coincidentally, the 3 seasons Brett won the MVP award)

The parallel between the receivers Chicago has NOW and the ones during Favre's MVP seasons is EXTREMELY applicable.

Don't believe me? Check here:

http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/statistics?season=1998&team=GB&seasonType=

Freeman's best season ever and a great one at that with 1400+ yards... and no one else to catch the ball... next best receiver? Statutory rapist Chuey with 550, and the #2 receiver caught a whopping 31 catches for 450 yards.

Hester, Bennett and the rooks can collectively crush their receiving production and Olsen is vastly superior to Chuey... not to mention Forte is already better than Dorsey "the horse" Levens ever was in every phase of the game.

Freeman was pretty good for a couple years. Robert Brooks had a couple good seasons. Keith Jackson was a good TE, CHuey was a decent TE. Farve had a lot of decent weapons when they were the team to beat in the NFC.

TheReverend
08-05-2009, 09:46 PM
Huh.

As of right now Cutler's #1 receiver has never hit 1,000k and is still an unknown as far as being a #1 for an actual season goes.

His #2 hasn't caught a pass.


You'd take that over Favre's receivers? Really?

Not going to waste time responding because you clearly can't read.

Freeman was pretty good for a couple years. Robert Brooks had a couple good seasons. Keith Jackson was a good TE, CHuey was a decent TE. Farve had a lot of decent weapons when they were the team to beat in the NFC.

Already stated that Freeman had a good run during the MVP years and then nothing. A clear case of a QB making a receiver. Don't get me wrong, he did take advantage of the patented "I'll throw it up there, you come down with it" that Brett's famous/infamous for, but Freeman and his 1 pro-bowl will never be mistaken for the type of receiver that makes his QB better.

Brooks was below average for a starter... and was supplanted by a sprinter from UW LaCrosse.

Keith Jackson played the twilight of his career (last two seasons) for GB and was absolutely NOT good.

Chmura's also way over-rated. Everyone played off coverage, respecting the arm strength and Chuey was able to catch underneath passes... forgive me for not being all too impressed.

I'll say again, these guys are all VERY comparable to the talent Chicago has at receiver.

Am I saying Cutler is as good as Favre in his prime and will be able to capitalize on a lack of receiving talent in the same vein? Absolutely not. Someone else set the Cutler/Favre premise.

NUB
08-05-2009, 09:52 PM
You said,

Reminds me of Jay's Chi-town targets.


They don't. At all. The Packers receiving core is so superior it doesn't bear comparison in the first place.


Then,

Hester, Bennett and the rooks can collectively crush their receiving production and Olsen is vastly superior to Chuey...

Sounds like an endorsement to me.

TheReverend
08-05-2009, 10:03 PM
They don't. At all. The Packers receiving core is so superior it doesn't bear comparison in the first place.

LOL

"Doesn't [BARE] comparison in the first place" absolves you from actually discussing the merits of a post and the stats posted behind it?

Precisely the type of reaction I expected and why I didn't reply to your post to begin with.

Popps
08-05-2009, 10:04 PM
Name his receivers? lol

I'll help:
Antonio Freeman - sucked
Mark Chmura - sucked (also, I knew the girl he jailbaited in the hot-tub)
Sterling Sharpe for a bit - decent

Reminds me of Jay's Chi-town targets.

I think Freeman made a couple of Pro Bowls and had 5 900+ yard seasons, including a 1400 yarder. He was a top-flight receiver in that time-period.

That said, I'm not a believer that the QB makes the WR all the time, either. Favre would have likely been effective with other WRs and Freeman probably would have been a good WR in another city.

azbroncfan
08-05-2009, 10:06 PM
Not going to waste time responding because you clearly can't read.



Already stated that Freeman had a good run during the MVP years and then nothing. A clear case of a QB making a receiver. Don't get me wrong, he did take advantage of the patented "I'll throw it up there, you come down with it" that Brett's famous/infamous for, but Freeman and his 1 pro-bowl will never be mistaken for the type of receiver that makes his QB better.

Brooks was below average for a starter... and was supplanted by a sprinter from UW LaCrosse.

Keith Jackson played the twilight of his career (last two seasons) for GB and was absolutely NOT good.

Chmura's also way over-rated. Everyone played off coverage, respecting the arm strength and Chuey was able to catch underneath passes... forgive me for not being all too impressed.

I'll say again, these guys are all VERY comparable to the talent Chicago has at receiver.

Am I saying Cutler is as good as Favre in his prime and will be able to capitalize on a lack of receiving talent in the same vein? Absolutely not. Someone else set the Cutler/Favre premise.

Not saying they are HOF players but they are much better than what Chicago has on the roster. Since you are using stats and probowls to argue with post up an argument for why Chicago's players are better.

TheReverend
08-05-2009, 10:08 PM
I think Freeman made a couple of Pro Bowls and had 5 900+ yard seasons, including a 1400 yarder. He was a top-flight receiver in that time-period.

That said, I'm not a believer that the QB makes the WR all the time, either. Favre would have likely been effective with other WRs and Freeman probably would have been a good WR in another city.

Just one pro-bowl for his one great season in 1998. And FYI, Freeman was NOT a good WR in another city when he left.

And no, the QB definitely does NOT make the WR all the time. There are some great receivers out there like Moss, TO, Johnson, Fitz, Q, and even Brandon that make their QBs look better than they are. That's precisely the category you WON'T find any of Brett's receivers in and another reason why they're comparable to Chicago's lack of top flight talent.

TheReverend
08-05-2009, 10:16 PM
Not saying they are HOF players but they are much better than what Chicago has on the roster. Since you are using stats and probowls to argue with post up an argument for why Chicago's players are better.

Not saying they are. Saying it's a comparable situation. Still, I suppose you won't want to bothered with Olsen in only 7 starts putting up numbers that are comparable with Chuey's best seasons? Or Forte vastly out performing Levens or Jervey at their best? Or the fact that Desmond Clark is still playing at a high level as a reserve TE?

As for the purely wide receiving talent, in 8 starts, Hester had 665 yards and another 61 rushing in his first ever season at the wide receiver position. Pretty decent numbers, especially on a team quarterbacked to a 21st in the league passing team. As for Bennett and their new rookies, about every one of them is more talented than Schroeder or Brooks in nearly every measurable we can compare them with until they actually play some football.

Can Cutler make them look as good as Favre was able to? Probably not, but this group is far from "that bad"

lex
08-05-2009, 10:17 PM
Y'know... had Favre retired a few seasons ago when age first started to erode his performance instead of futilely trying to pretend he could still play like a 25-year-old, few football fans would even suggest using the term "overrated" to describe him. No, he's not going out on top (as SB MVP) like Elway did...but he's also not going out "benched for ineffectiveness in a 62-7 playoff blowout" like Marino did either. He will (deservedly) have his place in Canton...

I actually think the way it ended for Dan was more dignified than how it has been for Favre...and its not even close. The past 5 or 6 years, Brett has been coasting on rep. When I say he was great in the mid 90s, I mean in a way that he hasnt touched since. Still though, Emmitt Smith deserved the MVP in 95 and Sanders deserved it all alone in 97.

NUB
08-05-2009, 10:20 PM
LOL

"Doesn't [BARE] comparison in the first place" absolves you from actually discussing the merits of a post and the stats posted behind it?

Precisely the type of reaction I expected and why I didn't reply to your post to begin with.

Huh? You are the one who put forth the comparison. Jesus, it was like 15 posts ago tops.


Also: It's bear.

lex
08-05-2009, 10:24 PM
Name his receivers? lol

I'll help:
Antonio Freeman - sucked
Mark Chmura - sucked (also, I knew the girl he jailbaited in the hot-tub)
Sterling Sharpe for a bit - decent

Reminds me of Jay's Chi-town targets.

Youre way understating how good those WRs were for Green Bay.

TheReverend
08-05-2009, 10:34 PM
Huh? You are the one who put forth the comparison. Jesus, it was like 15 posts ago tops.


Also: It's bear.

Good god, your comprehension is beyond awful.

Also: No. It's not.

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/bare+comparison+with

Dagmar
08-05-2009, 10:44 PM
http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/9462/8923bc04.gif

underrated29
08-05-2009, 10:46 PM
Just one pro-bowl for his one great season in 1998. And FYI, Freeman was NOT a good WR in another city when he left.




My man thats like saying that eddie mac sucks because as a giant he blew ass. But as a bronco his good seasons dont count.

I have to side with the others on this one.

No one would ever take hester over freeman. Of bennett over sterline sharpe. It jsut wouldnt happen. They might be overrated or whatnot, but they certainly are proven and head and shoulders above the bears boys.

NUB
08-05-2009, 10:49 PM
Good god, your comprehension is beyond awful.

Explain. I pointed out just what you said but in no post have you actually responded to it. Just said "Oh no" and "Huh-uh" without actually saying why. If you think I'm misinterpreting you please explain how because it seems crystal clear to me.

For instance, again,

Hester, Bennett and the rooks can collectively crush their receiving production and Olsen is vastly superior to Chuey... not to mention Forte is already better than Dorsey "the horse" Levens ever was in every phase of the game.

Was this metaphorical? Seems like a pretty blunt endorsement of the Chicago crew over the Packers to me. If you wish to say I have horrible reading comprehension please explain how this isn't blatantly saying Chicago's receiving core > Packers' when you use a phrase like "crush [the Packers] receiving production".


Also: No. It's not.

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/bare+comparison+with

Really dude.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bear%5B2%5D



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bare%5B2%5D

TheReverend
08-05-2009, 11:02 PM
Explain. I pointed out just what you said but in no post have you actually responded to it. Just said "Oh no" and "Huh-uh" without actually saying why. If you think I'm misinterpreting you please explain how because it seems crystal clear to me.

For instance, again,



Was this metaphorical? Seems like a pretty blunt endorsement of the Chicago crew over the Packers to me. If you wish to say I have horrible reading comprehension please explain how this isn't blatantly saying Chicago's receiving core > Packers' when you use a phrase like "crush [the Packers] receiving production".



Really dude.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bear%5B2%5D



http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bare%5B2%5D

Already posted the numbers that they could "crush" here:


http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/statistics?season=1998&team=GB&seasonType=

You really think Hester, Bennett and the rookies can't collectively put that up with Olsen, Clark and Forte? Not going to be all that challenging consider Freeman is the only who actually put numbers up.

And, I already posted a direct link of the phrase in the English language...

NUB
08-05-2009, 11:07 PM
Already posted the numbers that they'd "crush" here:


http://www.nfl.com/teams/greenbaypackers/statistics?season=1998&team=GB&seasonType=

You really think Hester, Bennett and the rookies can't collectively put that up with Olsen, Clark and Forte? Not going to be all that challenging consider Freeman is the only who actually put numbers up.

And, I already posted a direct link of the phrase in the English language...

YES.

I mean goodness. Hester is entering his first year as a legitimate wide-receiver.

Bennett has not caught a single pass.

That's Cutler's #1/#2 at the moment. A converted, short DB and a guy who has yet to catch a pass; basically, two question marks. Currently speaking, I honestly don't get how that even begins to compare to what Favre had at all.

I'd say Olsen is obviously a superior tight end, but he alone doesn't overcome the deficiencies elsewhere.


As for the English language thing. Yeah, I'll defer to Merriam-Webster. They seem like they have it down pretty well.

TheReverend
08-05-2009, 11:21 PM
YES.

I mean goodness. Hester is entering his first year as a legitimate wide-receiver.

Bennett has not caught a single pass.

That's Cutler's #1/#2 at the moment. A converted, short DB and a guy who has yet to catch a pass; basically, two question marks. Currently speaking, I honestly don't get how that even begins to compare to what Favre had at all.

I'd say Olsen is obviously a superior tight end, but he alone doesn't overcome the deficiencies elsewhere.


As for the English language thing. Yeah, I'll defer to Merriam-Webster. They seem like they have it down pretty well.

And GBs receivers were garbage outside of a great year by Freeman... as shown. No one's calling these guys the 90s 9ers, or this decade's Colts.

NUB
08-05-2009, 11:25 PM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FreeAn00.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchrBi00.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrooRo00.htm

vs.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HestDe99.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BennEa00.htm

TheReverend
08-05-2009, 11:44 PM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/F/FreeAn00.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/SchrBi00.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BrooRo00.htm

vs.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HestDe99.htm

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BennEa00.htm

That's 2200 whole yards. And yes, Hester, Bennett and the rookies can reproduce 2200 whole yards. Finally, you're getting my point.

Popps
08-06-2009, 12:33 AM
And FYI, Freeman was NOT a good WR in another city when he left.


Wasn't that pretty late in his career?

I don't care that much. I just watched him average 1000 yards and a bunch of TDs a season over a decent chunk of time, including being pretty instrumental during their SB runs. I wouldn't put him in the chump category, personally.



And no, the QB definitely does NOT make the WR all the time. There are some great receivers out there like Moss, TO, Johnson, Fitz, Q, and even Brandon that make their QBs look better than they are. That's precisely the category you WON'T find any of Brett's receivers in and another reason why they're comparable to Chicago's lack of top flight talent.

Maybe. He never had a cast of all-stars, but he had a pretty solid team around him during their productive years. (Great line, quality running game and quality receivers.) It was also a balanced team with a solid defense.

Cutler has some weapons in Chicago, but from memory... I sure recall those Packers teams being more complete than what I see in Chicago right now.

Plus, Jay is a faggy, betus-drunk! ;D

azbroncfan
08-06-2009, 05:28 AM
Jay isn't as good of a player that Farve was if you compare their 4th years in the league.

Punisher
08-06-2009, 06:21 AM
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/d/5/3/d53142b12ed9d11279ce36362102c233.gif

rastaman
08-06-2009, 06:23 AM
Do your knees ever get sore?

Its amazing you have time to post here at all since you're a known sock puppet for Bowlen and McDaniels. I'd imagine your throat is sore as well. Do you still have your tonsils. :wiggle:

Punisher
08-06-2009, 06:26 AM
This Thread is boring time for a Rodman Mix!
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rastaman
08-06-2009, 06:30 AM
Of course they did. What do you expect him to say about him? Cutler was terrible at checking down or throwing to the flat in Denver and would throw to double and triple coverage.

You are absolutley right. However, that doesn't say he can't learn to check down at some point in his young career. Who knows in 2009 Cutler could turn the cornere in this regard, as a 3rd year as a full time starter.

rastaman
08-06-2009, 06:36 AM
They will when the bears OL gets cutler killed...........maybe

Orton can killed as well b/c the dude has cement shoes and no OL can protect forever. Sometimes a QB needs to escape out of trouble when the line breaks down.

rastaman
08-06-2009, 06:43 AM
Rewatch the first KC game from last year and you will see the perfect example of Cutler forcing into coverage. Watch the Bills game and he kept both teams in the game and lost it at the end trying to jam it into a double covered Marshall.

Qb's tend to force throws (Jam) when they don't have a consistent running attack. As was the situation Cutler found himself in. Especially the last 3 weeks of the season. Tatum Bell and Selvin Young are not the RB's you want when you need to win your last 3 games.

rastaman
08-06-2009, 06:51 AM
Problem is that he didn't show any improvement on these fronts between years 2 and 3 that couldn't be accounted for by better talent around him. His completion % went down, his YPA went down, his TDs only went up by 5 while his INTs went up by 4, all this while being sacked 16 fewer times. He did fumble less though.

Cuttler was Denver full time starter in 07 and 08! Every Qb goes thru a process to get better. 2009 will be his 3rd year as a full time starter it remains to be seen whether he make improvements. He's only 26 years old its not like we are talking about a 30 something year old QB that continues to make rookie-bonehead mistakes.

elsid13
08-06-2009, 07:04 AM
Problem is that he didn't show any improvement on these fronts between years 2 and 3 that couldn't be accounted for by better talent around him. His completion % went down, his YPA went down, his TDs only went up by 5 while his INTs went up by 4, all this while being sacked 16 fewer times. He did fumble less though.

Remember the defense coordinators had a full year worth of tape on him and an off season to prepare for what he can do and what he can not do. It doesn't mean that he has regressed as player, just that he now has to readjust his play as defense plans have been designed to slow him down. Cutler has shown that he smart enough player to make that adjust and evolve his game.

BTW his completion rate going down from 63.6 to 62.3 isn't that much of regression, that can be placed on receiver corp dropping some passes, which we all know happened. Anything over 60% is what you are looking for out our QB in the NFL. Which is a mark that Orton never has hit!

misturanderson
08-06-2009, 08:08 AM
Good god, your comprehension is beyond awful.

Also: No. It's not.

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/bare+comparison+with

Way to go there on the thesaurus, champ. Did you actually read what you looked up?


Main Entry: come up to
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: meet expectations
Synonyms: admit of comparison with, approach, arrive, bear comparison with, come near, compare with, equal, extend, get near, match, measure up to, rank with, reach, resemble, rival, stand comparison with

It just realized that you screwed up and corrected you.

misturanderson
08-06-2009, 08:14 AM
Remember the defense coordinators had a full year worth of tape on him and an off season to prepare for what he can do and what he can not do. It doesn't mean that he has regressed as player, just that he now has to readjust his play as defense plans have been designed to slow him down. Cutler has shown that he smart enough player to make that adjust and evolve his game.

BTW his completion rate going down from 63.6 to 62.3 isn't that much of regression, that can be placed on receiver corp dropping some passes, which we all know happened. Anything over 60% is what you are looking for out our QB in the NFL. Which is a mark that Orton never has hit!

If Cutler is as good as you guys think he is, the new weapons he had at his disposal (2 ROTY candidates, Clady should have won, and a better stable of running backs even with the injuries) should have made up for any gameplanning that opposing defenses were able to do with him. Like I said, he put up nearly identical stats and for every increase in a positive stat, he put up higher numbers in a negative stat (see TDs/Ints) while being sacked 16 fewer times in over 100 more pass attempts. That is not improving as a player.

TheChamp24
08-06-2009, 08:20 AM
I have Bear fans trying to tell me that their offense has a lot of weapons.
One said Hester is going to turn into a legitimate #1 and draw comparisons to Steve Smith. Earl Bennett is classified as a solid #2 when he has yet to catch a single pass in the NFL. Olson talked as if he is a top 5 TE in the league, which he has yet to show.

The MVPlaya
08-06-2009, 08:22 AM
He may have learning issues like all young QB's do, but he's a top 3 talent in the NFL at the position.

Ahh... so now your Cutlover posts make sense. You REALLY think he will make Hester/Bennett the next Harrison and Wayne.

Hilarious!

Dagmar
08-06-2009, 08:27 AM
http://4gifs.com/gallery/d/127500-1/Soccer_fans_bus.gif

The MVPlaya
08-06-2009, 08:27 AM
I have Bear fans trying to tell me that their offense has a lot of weapons.
One said Hester is going to turn into a legitimate #1 and draw comparisons to Steve Smith. Earl Bennett is classified as a solid #2 when he has yet to catch a single pass in the NFL. Olson talked as if he is a top 5 TE in the league, which he has yet to show.

Steve Smith? STEVE SMITH? Ha!

Hulamau
08-06-2009, 08:40 AM
Reported just now by Armstrong on his morning show .. Cutler talking smack about Denver Fans versus Chicago Fans ... He said ..... "Denver fans are about a 6 and Chicago fans are a 9 .. I mean the passion is much greater in Chicago".

Baby Jay loves all the 'Cutler drunks' in Chicago lets see how that plays out when they lose three in a row.:curtsey:

Punisher
08-06-2009, 09:39 AM
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p104/malix27/monkeyballgrab.gif

azbroncfan
08-06-2009, 01:12 PM
Cuttler was Denver full time starter in 07 and 08! Every Qb goes thru a process to get better. 2009 will be his 3rd year as a full time starter it remains to be seen whether he make improvements. He's only 26 years old its not like we are talking about a 30 something year old QB that continues to make rookie-bonehead mistakes.

Excuses, excuses. Jay has always locked on to his number 1 read and forced the ball instead of taking the easy completion for positive yards. Can he learn to do it? Yes but he hasn't yet and his arrogance makes me think he never will get it.

jhns
08-06-2009, 01:46 PM
Excuses, excuses. Jay has always locked on to his number 1 read and forced the ball instead of taking the easy completion for positive yards. Can he learn to do it? Yes but he hasn't yet and his arrogance makes me think he never will get it.

If he always locks on to his first read and always forces the ball and can still complete over 60 percent of his passes ehile throwing over 600 times, I would say you are just making the argument that he is one of the all time greats. I mean 4500 yards while never looking off defenders or making reads is probably one of the most impressive things I've seen in football.

Now just imagine what that is going to turn into now that he has experience and a team around him. You are all only making this trade sound even worse.

Also, while you all cry that he is a baby and arrogant, let me just remind you that he has about the same level of immaturity as a young elway. In fact, a ton of great players have had horrible attitudes. This stuff doesn't hold people back no matter how much you try convincing yourselves that it does. Do you really believe you would be good friends with all great football players? A lot have the same attitude problem jay does because they are all told how great they are from a young age. If anything, the Rod Smiths and Royals of the NFL are the rare attitudes while Cutlers is the more common.

Keep making stuff up to validate us giving away our very good young qb though. I understand you guys that need to find ways to cope.

ScottXray
08-06-2009, 02:55 PM
Unfortunately for us and our #1 pick from Chicago next year I think Jay will probably do fairly well this year.

However , the one thing that no one can predict is injury, and it is possible that he could go down sometime and put the Bears in the bad position of having to come up with a new QB. With the Bears O-line his scrambling ability may help them , but eventually that will catch up with him and he will get hurt at least somewhat.

IF Jay corrects his lock on mistakes and checks down in game conditions, he could have an outstanding future. Now that he has a new QB coach he may actually be coached to do so, something that shanny seemed to ignore.

Probably he will be able to do so as long as the Bears are in a winning position. When they get behind will be the time we'll see if he actually has progressed with some of his bad habits.
And if Mopey Jay shows up, all bets are off.

Anyway, all this talk of a Bear QB is irrelavant as far as the Broncos go, beyond the draft status next year. For our purposes, I hope he has a disastrous season this year! He can become a pro-bowler after that , as long as he doesn't win a super bowl against us.

TheChamp24
08-06-2009, 04:47 PM
Reported just now by Armstrong on his morning show .. Cutler talking smack about Denver Fans versus Chicago Fans ... He said ..... "Denver fans are about a 6 and Chicago fans are a 9 .. I mean the passion is much greater in Chicago".

Baby Jay loves all the 'Cutler drunks' in Chicago lets see how that plays out when they lose three in a row.:curtsey:

He sees that because Chicago thinks he is their savior and because of him, an automatic ticket to the NFC Championship/Super Bowl in Bears fans minds.

Bears fans are ridiculous, annoying fans who tout their team beyond belief and how they are so much better than they really are.

azbroncfan
08-06-2009, 09:26 PM
If he always locks on to his first read and always forces the ball and can still complete over 60 percent of his passes ehile throwing over 600 times, I would say you are just making the argument that he is one of the all time greats. I mean 4500 yards while never looking off defenders or making reads is probably one of the most impressive things I've seen in football.

Now just imagine what that is going to turn into now that he has experience and a team around him. You are all only making this trade sound even worse.

Also, while you all cry that he is a baby and arrogant, let me just remind you that he has about the same level of immaturity as a young elway. In fact, a ton of great players have had horrible attitudes. This stuff doesn't hold people back no matter how much you try convincing yourselves that it does. Do you really believe you would be good friends with all great football players? A lot have the same attitude problem jay does because they are all told how great they are from a young age. If anything, the Rod Smiths and Royals of the NFL are the rare attitudes while Cutlers is the more common.

Keep making stuff up to validate us giving away our very good young qb though. I understand you guys that need to find ways to cope.

You Cutler homers keep using stats to argue your points but forget Cutler has never been a winner. I hated getting rid of him but I am tired of the comparison to a young Elway. Elway could win, Cutler does a great job of padding the stats between the 20's and in garbage time of blowouts. Trade off between Orton and Cutler isn't as big as some make it out to be and it isn't because Orton is great more that Jay is mediocre when it comes down to the whole point of football and that's wins/losses.

jhns
08-07-2009, 09:42 AM
You Cutler homers keep using stats to argue your points but forget Cutler has never been a winner. I hated getting rid of him but I am tired of the comparison to a young Elway. Elway could win, Cutler does a great job of padding the stats between the 20's and in garbage time of blowouts. Trade off between Orton and Cutler isn't as big as some make it out to be and it isn't because Orton is great more that Jay is mediocre when it comes down to the whole point of football and that's wins/losses.

Say this after this season and I will think it is a valid point if it is still true. You can't use that to convince me he isn't good. There have been many great players that were on crappy teams and didn't win. I'm not even saying he is great, so that isn't a very good argument. He has started 2 seasons in the NFL on teams with tons of injuries and an offense of rookie-3rd year guys............

azbroncfan
08-07-2009, 10:01 AM
Say this after this season and I will think it is a valid point if it is still true. You can't use that to convince me he isn't good. There have been many great players that were on crappy teams and didn't win. I'm not even saying he is great, so that isn't a very good argument. He has started 2 seasons in the NFL on teams with tons of injuries and an offense of rookie-3rd year guys............

I agree there. I don't think he sucks at all and was pissed when Denver traded him. I don't think he is a HOF'er either like some people were thinking. Last year I started to get worried about his TO's he has a knack for in the redzone and inability to get the O into the redzone. Time will tell for sure and I would rather have him for sure than Orton.