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SoDak Bronco
08-04-2009, 11:06 AM
http://tinyurl.com/ks4y2m

FOXBOROUGH -- Longtime Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan was a guest at this morning's training camp practice.

After the Patriots stretched, Bill Belichick called the players together and introduced Shanahan.

"He said that he wasn't here as a media guy or a coach, he's just here out of mutual respect, because they had a lot of good battles," relayed rookie quarterback Brian Hoyer, when asked about the message.

Hoyer said he couldn't hear Shanahan -- "I was kind of in the back because I'm a rookie" -- but he thought he heard Shanahan thank the players for the opportunity.

Shanahan, who last week attended Pittsburgh Steelers training camp practices, spent time speaking with Patriots senior football adviser Floyd Reese and owner Robert Kraft at the practice.

SoDak Bronco
08-04-2009, 11:06 AM
-Mike Shanahan a guest at today's practice. He addressed the Pats briefly after stretching drills.

-Belichick told the players there have been some great battles against Shanahan.

SoDak Bronco
08-04-2009, 11:08 AM
Funny reading the comments on this article. Pats fans saying they should bring in Shanny for Rb's coach, or Offensive Coordinator. haha. Kinda weird seeing our coach/ex coach mingle with the enemy. Now we have come full circle.

s0phr0syne
08-04-2009, 11:08 AM
awesome, thanks for sharing!

I love shanny making the rounds and retooling for his comeback. He's putting the rest of the league on notice. Can't wait to have him back coaching some team. He's going to be reinvigorated and have some sweet new ideas...I'm sure of it!

SoDak Bronco
08-04-2009, 11:12 AM
awesome, thanks for sharing!

I love shanny making the rounds and retooling for his comeback. He's putting the rest of the league on notice. Can't wait to have him back coaching some team. He's going to be reinvigorated and have some sweet new ideas...I'm sure of it!

I hope he goes the the NFC. I see the Bears/Vikes as possible landing spots depending on how their seasons go.

Traveler
08-04-2009, 11:13 AM
awesome, thanks for sharing!

I love shanny making the rounds and retooling for his comeback. He's putting the rest of the league on notice. Can't wait to have him back coaching some team. He's going to be reinvigorated and have some sweet new ideas...I'm sure of it!

Seems to be visiting only the latest SB winners to incorporate whatever he can for his next HC gig. If he visits the Giants, it'd be a smart move IMO.

Beantown Bronco
08-04-2009, 11:14 AM
my favorite comment:

haha, Hoyer couldn't ever hear Shanahan... if there was such thing as a book titled 'How You Know You Are Going to be Cut from an NFL Team', within the top 5 list would have to be: "If a legendary soon-to-be Hall of Fame coach visits your camp and talks to the team, but you are too far away to even hear what he says... you are going to be cut"

Borks147
08-04-2009, 11:15 AM
he better ****ing go to the NFC, I want to root for him.

Irish Stout
08-04-2009, 11:16 AM
its obvious he's missing the foosball.

Peoples Champ
08-04-2009, 11:16 AM
he better ****ing go to the NFC, I want to root for him.

He better stay retired for a few years and get paid to do nothing.

Bronco Rob
08-04-2009, 11:19 AM
Shanny @ Pats practice...

I guess he is getting some fliming tips from the master...



:D

rovolution
08-04-2009, 11:32 AM
Cowboys are going to be a heck of a ball club with Shanny as the HC. i really like this Camp tour shanny is going on.

Next on his schedule is the Texans camp, then Cards, and then finally Gators camp, where he will get to learn the tennats of the spread from Urban Meyer.


If i were jerry jones id be ready to fire wade within the first 5 weeks of the season, make garret an interim coach, fire him at the end, and make Shanny the next HC.

misturanderson
08-04-2009, 11:39 AM
Now he just needs to visit the bucs, titans, giants, eagles, ravens and bears(?). Maybe after all of that he will realize that he needs to drop Slowick like a bad case of herpes and let someone competent run the defense all on their own without his interference.

misturanderson
08-04-2009, 11:40 AM
Next on his schedule is the Texans camp, then Cards, and then finally Gators camp, where he will get to learn the tennats of the spread from Urban Meyer.


Is this true?

TheReverend
08-04-2009, 11:40 AM
As long as he's not a Charger this time next year, it's all good

Man-Goblin
08-04-2009, 11:43 AM
As long as he's not a Charger this time next year, it's all good

It would suck beyond the suckiness levels of all sucky things that have sucked.

misturanderson
08-04-2009, 11:50 AM
It would suck beyond the suckiness levels of all sucky things that have sucked.

If he brought Slowick with him though, would it really suck that bad?

rovolution
08-04-2009, 11:53 AM
Is this true?

https://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter/status/3106693128

"Mike Shanahan's busy. Pittsburgh today, New England tomorrow, then on to Texans and Cardinals camps, before studying Florida w/ Urban Meyer."

Popps
08-04-2009, 11:54 AM
Shanahan should have done the Pittsburgh/NE tour a few years ago to see how they were putting their franchises together.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 11:57 AM
I don't care what the haters say. I love and will always love Shanahan. We were two years away from Superbowl contention.

But oh well...

You go Coach.

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2009, 12:04 PM
Shanahan should have done the Pittsburgh/NE tour a few years ago to see how they were putting their franchises together.

Exactly.

HEAV
08-04-2009, 12:08 PM
But I thought he was the Mastermind? Why does a "Mastermind" need to go and see how others run their teams?

Face it Shanny now see's that his ways had gotten stale and he's looking to see what makes other teams better. He's a good coach that was just in one place too long.

dbfan21
08-04-2009, 12:10 PM
Shanahan should have done the Pittsburgh/NE tour a few years ago to see how they were putting their franchises together.

It seemed like Mike was too entrenched with operations at Dove Valley. Being responsible for things other than X's & O's prevented him from staying ahead of the curve when it came to schemes and gameplans.

I think Mike is smart for doing what he's doing. I hope he lands in the NFC with his next head coaching gig. I know one thing for sure: he's not gonna be coaching in Oakland! :rofl:

The Joker
08-04-2009, 12:14 PM
I don't care what the haters say. I love and will always love Shanahan. We were two years away from Superbowl contention.

But oh well...

You go Coach.

3 years, at the absolute minimum.

Assuming he'd

a) Hire a DC who has a clue what he's doing.

b) Not abandon said DC's scheme after 5 games.

If you genuinely think we were going anywhere but backwards with Bob Slowik in possession of a headset on Sunday's then I'm really not sure what to tell you.

Truth is that we'd have certainly been as bad, if not worse, this year than we were last year with Shanahan in charge again. We'd have stumbled through another season of mediocre, embarrassing football and then maybe fired Slowik.

At that point, we'd have still been at least 2 years from achieving anything.

Agree with the second line of your post.

kupesdad
08-04-2009, 12:27 PM
I hope he goes the the NFC. I see the Bears/Vikes as possible landing spots depending on how their seasons go.

If Wade Phillips doesn't win SB Shanny will be in Dallas next year

worm
08-04-2009, 12:32 PM
As the Chargers coach he could stick it to the Broncos AND the Raiders twice a year.

That has to be tempting to a guy that can carry a grudge.

titan
08-04-2009, 12:35 PM
I heard on one of the morning talk shows that Shanahan is going to be on the road with Slowik visiting camps until August 18th. Also when he was visiting the Steelers camp James Harrison went up to Mike Tomlin and asked, "coach, why are you having the head coach of the Broncos at our camp??"

bowtown
08-04-2009, 12:37 PM
There's nothing to this story. Shanahan just bought a new slick handheld at Best Buy and is having a little trouble figuring out the zoom. Belichick offered to help him out.

Mountain Bronco
08-04-2009, 12:39 PM
Bottom line is without being fired in Denver, Sanny may never have gotten the opportunity to do this type of studying of the NFL. So in hindsight, this is a great opportunity for Shanny and will likely improve him as an NFL head coach, which is a scarry prospect because there we are one of only several teams that wouldn't hire him.

He was a great coach and leader, we were fortunate to have him for the amount of time we did, but it was time to move on for all sides.

Mountain Bronco
08-04-2009, 12:40 PM
As the Chargers coach he could stick it to the Broncos AND the Raiders twice a year.

That has to be tempting to a guy that can carry a grudge.

He doesn't have the same type of grudge against Denver and Bowlen as he does against the Raiders, but I am sure he would like to whoop the Broncos.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 12:50 PM
If you genuinely think we were going anywhere but backwards with Bob Slowik in possession of a headset on Sunday's then I'm really not sure what to tell you.


There's nothing that you can tell me because you don't know either. Slowick didn't have an opportunity to install his defense. Whether he had a good scheme or a bad one, we simply don't know.

I don't have praise or criticism for Slowick, because we didn't get to see what he could do. His job last year was to try and make do until this next season when resources were to be dedicated to defense.

55CrushEm
08-04-2009, 12:53 PM
Cowboys are going to be a heck of a ball club with Shanny as the HC. i really like this Camp tour shanny is going on.

Next on his schedule is the Texans camp, then Cards, and then finally Gators camp, where he will get to learn the tennats of the spread from Urban Meyer.


If i were jerry jones id be ready to fire wade within the first 5 weeks of the season, make garret an interim coach, fire him at the end, and make Shanny the next HC.

Poor Wade.....this will be the second time he's fired.....only to be replaced by Shanahan. LOL

Cito Pelon
08-04-2009, 12:57 PM
Shanny won't coach in the NFL again.

Beantown Bronco
08-04-2009, 12:59 PM
Shanny won't coach in the NFL again.

You really believe that?

colonelbeef
08-04-2009, 12:59 PM
3 years, at the absolute minimum.

Assuming he'd

a) Hire a DC who has a clue what he's doing.

b) Not abandon said DC's scheme after 5 games.

If you genuinely think we were going anywhere but backwards with Bob Slowik in possession of a headset on Sunday's then I'm really not sure what to tell you.

Truth is that we'd have certainly been as bad, if not worse, this year than we were last year with Shanahan in charge again. We'd have stumbled through another season of mediocre, embarrassing football and then maybe fired Slowik.

At that point, we'd have still been at least 2 years from achieving anything.

Agree with the second line of your post.

100% false.

Health at RB would have meant another win last year alone.

Draft picks and FA money galore- he would have spent them on defense and ST, offense was set.

Brandon Marshall fully back from his injury. Hillis back from injury. DJ fully back from injury. Champ back from injury. OL with a year under their belt, now the best line in the league with kickass bookend tackles both under the age of 26.

Defense would have improved drastically, Slowick or not, simply as resources would have been spent until the talent was improved exponentially.

That was a super young team riddled with injury at HB and across the board on D, and they still managed to win 8 games. This was a multi-run championship team in the making, and I would say that now we are much further away from a super Bowl appearance than we were 7 months ago. Just ask anybody who knows anything about football, or Vegas.

I forget, how many NFL championship teams has McDaniels been a coordinator for? Oh yeah, zero. Sweet.

colonelbeef
08-04-2009, 01:03 PM
As the Chargers coach he could stick it to the Broncos AND the Raiders twice a year.

That has to be tempting to a guy that can carry a grudge.

Single worst fear.

Here's to hoping that hidden somewhere in his contract was a lifetime ban from coaching another AFC West team.

Boss Man
08-04-2009, 01:05 PM
But I thought he was the Mastermind? Why does a "Mastermind" need to go and see how others run their teams?

Face it Shanny now see's that his ways had gotten stale and he's looking to see what makes other teams better. He's a good coach that was just in one place too long.

thats what makes a coach great or a mastermind a mastermind.

always looking for ways to improve...

~Crash~
08-04-2009, 01:21 PM
It seemed like Mike was too entrenched with operations at Dove Valley. Being responsible for things other than X's & O's prevented him from staying ahead of the curve when it came to schemes and gameplans.

I think Mike is smart for doing what he's doing. I hope he lands in the NFC with his next head coaching gig. I know one thing for sure: he's not gonna be coaching in Oakland! :rofl:

you say that but al will die some day...

Beantown Bronco
08-04-2009, 01:22 PM
you say that but al will die some day...

That's a bet I might be willing to take.

summerdenver
08-04-2009, 01:30 PM
The irony in this to me is that Shanahan and Broncos were the first to beat Brady/Belichek in the playoffs and they have not won a superbowl since then.

If you look at the history of the game, Football has always been cyclical and I truly believe that Patriots way of doing things has run its course. Till Brady is around they will be a contender and will go deep in the playoffs a couple of times but Broncos have ended their SB run.

summerdenver
08-04-2009, 01:31 PM
If Wade Phillips doesn't win SB Shanny will be in Dallas next year

Rumor is that Holmgreen is the favorite for Dallas job.

misturanderson
08-04-2009, 01:32 PM
100% false.

Health at RB would have meant another win last year alone.

Draft picks and FA money galore- he would have spent them on defense and ST, offense was set.

Brandon Marshall fully back from his injury. Hillis back from injury. DJ fully back from injury. Champ back from injury. OL with a year under their belt, now the best line in the league with kickass bookend tackles both under the age of 26.

Defense would have improved drastically, Slowick or not, simply as resources would have been spent until the talent was improved exponentially.

That was a super young team riddled with injury at HB and across the board on D, and they still managed to win 8 games. This was a multi-run championship team in the making, and I would say that now we are much further away from a super Bowl appearance than we were 7 months ago. Just ask anybody who knows anything about football, or Vegas.

I forget, how many NFL championship teams has McDaniels been a coordinator for? Oh yeah, zero. Sweet.

We could have had the steelers' defensive personnel and it wouldn't have mattered with our defensive coaching staff.

We couldn't develop defensive players, those that we had that had already developed were either kept on the sidelines in favor of less-talented veterans or were put in a position they weren't suited for and would get worse with every year.

Our scheme was crap, simply crap. There is no excuse for having our CBs act as extra safeties on every play or play them off the receivers so far on 3rd down that a quick slant was a guaranteed first.

There is no amount of talent that we could have thrown at the previous defensive staff to make it into a decent defense. There is a reason that none of our high-round defensive draft picks worked out and there is a reason that all of our defensive free agant pick ups busted.

Don Flamenco
08-04-2009, 01:32 PM
But I thought he was the Mastermind? Why does a "Mastermind" need to go and see how others run their teams?

Face it Shanny now see's that his ways had gotten stale and he's looking to see what makes other teams better. He's a good coach that was just in one place too long.

YES! McDaniels RULEZ!

bronco militia
08-04-2009, 01:33 PM
http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/DREW010609.gif

Man-Goblin
08-04-2009, 01:35 PM
If he brought Slowick with him though, would it really suck that bad?

It would still suck, but you did just make me feel better! I will downgrade the suckiness level contingent on Mike bringing that human anvil with him.

You have to think Shanahan will be coaching somewhere again next year. I could easily see a bidding war ensue between Dallas and Washington that would wipe that final year of his contract off Bowlen's books. And, of course, if the Bears sucks its good news for the Broncos and Shanahan could end up there, for obvious reasons.

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2009, 01:40 PM
thats what makes a coach great or a mastermind a mastermind.

always looking for ways to improve...

I just wish he would have done that a few years ago.

Beantown Bronco
08-04-2009, 01:42 PM
Till Brady is around they will be a contender and will go deep in the playoffs a couple of times but Broncos have ended their SB run.

If anything, the Giants would have a claim on that before the Broncos....though it's still a little early to make such a claim IMO.

kupesdad
08-04-2009, 01:49 PM
Rumor is that Holmgreen is the favorite for Dallas job.

If I'm Jerry Jones and it's between Holmgren and Shanny it's no contest

~Crash~
08-04-2009, 01:50 PM
That's a bet I might be willing to take.

you you just might be right I wonder if you cut him if he bleeds yellow.....

gyldenlove
08-04-2009, 01:55 PM
What are the odds that he takes over in Houston if Kubiak gets fired for not getting them to the playoffs this year?

With Slaton, Andre Johnson and Schaub he could do some damage.

El Guapo
08-04-2009, 01:55 PM
If Wade Phillips doesn't win SB Shanny will be in Dallas next year

I would like to think so too, but I just don't think him and Jerry Jones will get along in the long run. Both individuals want the GM job and Jerry isn't about to give it up.

El Guapo
08-04-2009, 01:56 PM
The irony in this to me is that Shanahan and Broncos were the first to beat Brady/Belichek in the playoffs and they have not won a superbowl since then.

If you look at the history of the game, Football has always been cyclical and I truly believe that Patriots way of doing things has run its course. Till Brady is around they will be a contender and will go deep in the playoffs a couple of times but Broncos have ended their SB run.

Well that doesn't bode well for us, since McDaniels was born and raised in the Patriots system.

Beantown Bronco
08-04-2009, 01:57 PM
I would like to think so too, but I just don't think him and Jerry Jones will get along in the long run. Both individuals want the GM job and Jerry isn't about to give it up.

Why do folks keep saying this? Are we assuming that just because he held the GM title in Denver that he would never settle for anything less anywhere else? I've never seen a quote anywhere to this effect yet people keep bringing it up any time a team with an established GM is mentioned.

Broncomutt
08-04-2009, 02:04 PM
I don't care what the haters say. I love and will always love Shanahan. We were two years away from Superbowl contention.

But oh well...

You go Coach.

LOL, you can see 2 years into the future, huh?

Yet, you posted a thread the eve of his firing saying he was going to be the Denver Head Coach for awhile, taunting all the "haters".


Sorry dude, your crystal ball is a bit warped.

footstepsfrom#27
08-04-2009, 02:45 PM
Cowboys are going to be a heck of a ball club with Shanny as the HC. i really like this Camp tour shanny is going on.

Next on his schedule is the Texans camp, then Cards, and then finally Gators camp, where he will get to learn the tennats of the spread from Urban Meyer.


If i were jerry jones id be ready to fire wade within the first 5 weeks of the season, make garret an interim coach, fire him at the end, and make Shanny the next HC.
Why does this nonsense keep popping up in here? Shanahan would never coach for Jerry Jones, who next to Alzheimers Davis is the biggest control freak in the league.

It would not surprise me to see him in San Diego next year though.

Man-Goblin
08-04-2009, 02:49 PM
What are the odds that he takes over in Houston if Kubiak gets fired for not getting them to the playoffs this year?

With Slaton, Andre Johnson and Schaub he could do some damage.

It would be weird because Shanahan's first choice for offensive coordinator would probably be the guy he is replacing. Bates would probably be second, but I doubt he could lure him away from USC. Bates is probably going to be the hottest college coaching prospect in the country before too long.

summerdenver
08-04-2009, 02:54 PM
If anything, the Giants would have a claim on that before the Broncos....though it's still a little early to make such a claim IMO.

We will still be the first team to beat them in the playoffs though.

!Booya!

Taco John
08-04-2009, 02:54 PM
LOL, you can see 2 years into the future, huh?

Yet, you posted a thread the eve of his firing saying he was going to be the Denver Head Coach for awhile, taunting all the "haters".


Sorry dude, your crystal ball is a bit warped.


I didn't need a crytal ball for this. We took a poll here asking how far off the team was from Superbowl contention. The overwhelming response was within two years.

Ray Finkle
08-04-2009, 02:54 PM
If Wade Phillips doesn't win SB Shanny will be in Dallas next year

I have heard rumblings that he is Skins bound....

summerdenver
08-04-2009, 02:56 PM
Well that doesn't bode well for us, since McDaniels was born and raised in the Patriots system.

Thats one of the reasons why I am skeptical that Patriots way will work in KC or Denver.

rovolution
08-04-2009, 02:56 PM
Why does this nonsense keep popping up in here? Shanahan would never coach for Jerry Jones, who next to Alzheimers Davis is the biggest control freak in the league.

It would not surprise me to see him in San Diego next year though.

Your San Diego suggestion makes no sense. AJ Smith is fully entrenched there as the top dog in football operations and has shown he will never solicit a coaches input in personell decisions, as shown with his spat with Marty.

Jerry, on the other hand, hired Bill Parcells and surrendered some of his personell power to the Big Tuna during Parcell's time there. He has shown he is willing to give up personell power if he respects the coach enough. He learned his lesson after his spat with Jimmy Johnson in the 90s.

rovolution
08-04-2009, 02:57 PM
It would be weird because Shanahan's first choice for offensive coordinator would probably be the guy he is replacing. Bates would probably be second, but I doubt he could lure him away from USC. Bates is probably going to be the hottest college coaching prospect in the country before too long.

Actually, from what ive read on the interent rumor mill, his son Kyle Shanahan would be his choice for O-coordinator. Keep in mind Kyle's contract with the Texans expires after this season.

footstepsfrom#27
08-04-2009, 03:10 PM
Your San Diego suggestion makes no sense. AJ Smith is fully entrenched there as the top dog in football operations and has shown he will never solicit a coaches input in personell decisions, as shown with his spat with Marty.

Jerry, on the other hand, hired Bill Parcells and surrendered some of his personell power to the Big Tuna during Parcell's time there. He has shown he is willing to give up personell power if he respects the coach enough. He learned his lesson after his spat with Jimmy Johnson in the 90s.
Eh...no he didn't.

First of all, not only did he not learn his lesson, he repeated the same mistake with Parcels. Why do you think the Tuna is gone? Jones wasn't able to keep his fingers off things, a fact everyone down here suspected throughout his time here and was made clear by how he brought TO in here without asking Bill. Second, AJ Smith might have GM power, but he certainly doesn't have OWNER power, which is what Jones has. You think Shanny will work for a meglamaniac like Jones but not work with Smith? That make a whole lot less sense than what you said makes no sense. Smith hasn't done anything that great in the last couple of years and if the Chargers could dump Norv Turner for a HOF coach like Shanny...you don't think Shanny would relish playing against Denver for another 10 years? You know he would.

Jones BTW...hired another puppet in Wade so it's obvious he did not "learn his lesson".

_Oro_
08-04-2009, 03:14 PM
I heard on one of the morning talk shows that Shanahan is going to be on the road with Slowik visiting camps until August 18th. Also when he was visiting the Steelers camp James Harrison went up to Mike Tomlin and asked, "coach, why are you having the head coach of the Broncos at our camp??"

Seems like Harrison is missing a few marbles.

bronco militia
08-04-2009, 03:39 PM
I heard on one of the morning talk shows that Shanahan is going to be on the road with Slowik visiting camps until August 18th. Also when he was visiting the Steelers camp James Harrison went up to Mike Tomlin and asked, "coach, why are you having the head coach of the Broncos at our camp??"



http://img2.pict.com/f9/a2/ab/1342447/0/a4oihl.gif

Popps
08-04-2009, 03:40 PM
I don't care what the haters say. I love and will always love Shanahan.

I haven't seen many, if any haters around here.

Hating would be (for instance) if someone attacked him personally, or proffered theories about his personal life and pushed those theories on the board for weeks upon months.

Know what I mean?





Someone feeling that the club simply needed to move in another direction or that his great tenure had run its course isn't "hating," it's thought out, reasonable opinion.

TonyR
08-04-2009, 03:57 PM
I haven't seen many, if any haters around here.


Good point. There is lots of hating of the owner and current head coach, but very little hating of Shanahan.

TonyR
08-04-2009, 04:01 PM
Thats one of the reasons why I am skeptical that Patriots way will work in KC or Denver.

I don't think any of the former Patriots have left and done things exclusively "the Patriots way". Sure they copy some of the "best practices" they learned and observed under Belichick, but men this successful have egos of their own and want to do things their way. I bet you could find just as many differences as similarities in the ways Crennel, Weis, and Mangini have done things, and I'm sure Pioli and McDaniels will be no different. McD has already done a lot of things much different than Belichick probably would have. So stop with the "Patriot Way" nonsense. It's cliche.

rovolution
08-04-2009, 04:05 PM
Eh...no he didn't.

First of all, not only did he not learn his lesson, he repeated the same mistake with Parcels. Why do you think the Tuna is gone? Jones wasn't able to keep his fingers off things, a fact everyone down here suspected throughout his time here and was made clear by how he brought TO in here without asking Bill. Second, AJ Smith might have GM power, but he certainly doesn't have OWNER power, which is what Jones has. You think Shanny will work for a meglamaniac like Jones but not work with Smith? That make a whole lot less sense than what you said makes no sense. Smith hasn't done anything that great in the last couple of years and if the Chargers could dump Norv Turner for a HOF coach like Shanny...you don't think Shanny would relish playing against Denver for another 10 years? You know he would.

Jones BTW...hired another puppet in Wade so it's obvious he did not "learn his lesson".

Smith will never be fired from San Diego. His track record in the draft speaks for itself. Shanny will not be going there. A GM's job is to assemble talent, not coach that talent, so you cant accuse Smith of not doing his job well.

colonelbeef
08-04-2009, 04:07 PM
Good point. There is lots of hating of the owner and current head coach, but very little hating of Shanahan.

having the opinion that something Bowlen or McDaniels has done was stupid is not hating, it can also be considered a reasonable opinion. I do not hate either person, and really hope that they recover from moves I see as having been mistakes.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 04:09 PM
I haven't seen many, if any haters around here.

Hating would be (for instance) if someone attacked him personally, or proffered theories about his personal life and pushed those theories on the board for weeks upon months.

Know what I mean?





Someone feeling that the club simply needed to move in another direction or that his great tenure had run its course isn't "hating," it's thought out, reasonable opinion.

Bah. Reading some of you folks, you make it sound like Shanahan couldn't put his shoes on the right foot, let alone run a training camp. You, yourself, have been hating on Shanahan for months. Of course, you weren't brave enough to do it until after he was canned.

I would be interested in seeing you find evidence of me pushing anything around what you're saying "for weeks upon months." I haven't mentioned it since I first reacted to the firing of Shanahan. I regret my meltdown on the firing of Shanahan, though I still think that it was a poor decision. But I wouldn't have had cause to even think it if I weren't getting reports from trusted individuals who claimed to have seen first hand accounts. I was angry, and I lashed out. And then I never mentioned it again.

The Joker
08-04-2009, 04:09 PM
Slowick didn't have an opportunity to install his defense. Whether he had a good scheme or a bad one, we simply don't know.

I don't have praise or criticism for Slowick, because we didn't get to see what he could do. His job last year was to try and make do until this next season when resources were to be dedicated to defense.

So you're telling me you're of the opinion that Slowik may have come good and put together a quality defense, given time?

BroncoMan4ever
08-04-2009, 04:13 PM
I hope he goes the the NFC. I see the Bears/Vikes as possible landing spots depending on how their seasons go.

i would bet on Washington. Snyder will give Mike anything he wants to get him to coach there. it is the best situation for him, he would answer directly to Snyder only, anywhere else and he will not have the power he had here.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 04:14 PM
So you're telling me you're of the opinion that Slowik may have come good and put together a quality defense, given time?


No. What I'm telling you is that I don't know what Slowick may have done and neither do you. We gave him one season to implement a system, and no players to do it. I don't know what Slowick would or wouldn't have done. You don't either. Nobody does.

What I do know is that in a July report from last year, he commented that we didn't have the players to install his system. So take from that what you will. I think most people have made up their mind about Slowick based on circumstances that were unfair to him. I certainly haven't seen a single valid critique of his system - which is understandable because he wasn't able to install it.

I"m inclined to believe that I wouldn't like Slowick's system, because from what I've read about it, it sounded very similar to Greg Robinson's system, which I hated. But I'm not willing to make a judgement on way or the other since I haven't seen Slowick's system. None of us have.

elsid13
08-04-2009, 04:24 PM
So you're telling me you're of the opinion that Slowik may have come good and put together a quality defense, given time?

The thing is, Slowik must have shown something to Shanahan to make him (Shanahan) believe that whatever system/plan was going to be installed was good enough to work. If Shanahan felt that Slowik didn't give him a chance to win, then he would have booted his ass to curb, friend or not.

2KBack
08-04-2009, 04:25 PM
No. What I'm telling you is that I don't know what Slowick may have done and neither do you. We gave him one season to implement a system, and no players to do it. I don't know what Slowick would or wouldn't have done. You don't either. Nobody does.

What I do know is that in a July report from last year, he commented that we didn't have the players to install his system. So take from that what you will. I think most people have made up their mind about Slowick based on circumstances that were unfair to him. I certainly haven't seen a single valid critique of his system - which is understandable because he wasn't able to install it.

I"m inclined to believe that I wouldn't like Slowick's system, because from what I've read about it, it sounded very similar to Greg Robinson's system, which I hated. But I'm not willing to make a judgement on way or the other since I haven't seen Slowick's system. None of us have.


Well you can always use history as a pretty good indicator. The last 4 Defenses he has coordinated ranked 29th, 19th, 25th, and 31st. If I remember correctly KHan had a great breakdown of how he actually set records for defensive futility in Green bay, Fewest forced turnovers.

Cito Pelon
08-04-2009, 04:29 PM
No. What I'm telling you is that I don't know what Slowick may have done and neither do you. We gave him one season to implement a system, and no players to do it. I don't know what Slowick would or wouldn't have done. You don't either. Nobody does.

What I do know is that in a July report from last year, he commented that we didn't have the players to install his system. So take from that what you will. I think most people have made up their mind about Slowick based on circumstances that were unfair to him. I certainly haven't seen a single valid critique of his system - which is understandable because he wasn't able to install it.

I"m inclined to believe that I wouldn't like Slowick's system, because from what I've read about it, it sounded very similar to Greg Robinson's system, which I hated. But I'm not willing to make a judgement on way or the other since I haven't seen Slowick's system. None of us have.

Well, Shanny tried like crazy to build the D. I detailed the drafts Denver made from 1999 on, and IIRC Shanny drafted something like 60% of his first four draft picks from 1999-2005 for defense. I did the research at one time, you look back - http://www.pro-football-reference.com/draft/den.htm

The Joker
08-04-2009, 04:34 PM
No. What I'm telling you is that I don't know what Slowick may have done and neither do you. We gave him one season to implement a system, and no players to do it. I don't know what Slowick would or wouldn't have done. You don't either. Nobody does.

What I do know is that in a July report from last year, he commented that we didn't have the players to install his system. So take from that what you will. I think most people have made up their mind about Slowick based on circumstances that were unfair to him. I certainly haven't seen a single valid critique of his system - which is understandable because he wasn't able to install it.

I"m inclined to believe that I wouldn't like Slowick's system, because from what I've read about it, it sounded very similar to Greg Robinson's system, which I hated. But I'm not willing to make a judgement on way or the other since I haven't seen Slowick's system. None of us have.

Come on.

Sure he didn't have the players to put together a good defense, but there's never, ever any excuse for the sheer level of failure we saw from our D last year. Awful playcalling, the same ridiculous strategies week after week. The fact that the D didn't get any worse when we lost our two best players says enough about the guy.

He didn't have a ****ing clue how to do anything.

You've got an undersized D-Line, so what do you do? Bull-rush every play, no stunts, nothing.

Genius.

The strength of your team is the CB's, so what do you do? Play them 12 yards off the receiver every play, no blitzes that give your best players a chance to make the play.

Quality.

I could go on, but anyone who needs me to explain just how bad Slowik was can't possibly have seen much Bronco football last year.

I wasn't expecting a quality defense, the talent wasn't there.

But I expect our DC to be able to do more than lie on his stomach with his arse in the air for the whole game, allowing teams to have their wicked way with him time after time.

You can hide behind your 'nobody knows for sure' arguement if you like, but it's very weak and I suspect you know this.

The Joker
08-04-2009, 04:36 PM
The thing is, Slowik must have shown something to Shanahan to make him (Shanahan) believe that whatever system/plan was going to be installed was good enough to work. If Shanahan felt that Slowik didn't give him a chance to win, then he would have booted his ass to curb, friend or not.

Well then Shanahan had to go, frankly.

Slowik has proven many times that he doesn't have a clue what he's doing. Shanahan should have known this, friend or not.

footstepsfrom#27
08-04-2009, 04:37 PM
Smith will never be fired from San Diego. His track record in the draft speaks for itself. Shanny will not be going there. A GM's job is to assemble talent, not coach that talent, so you cant accuse Smith of not doing his job well.
Whether he goes there or not, it's a guess on my part, but one that's far more likely than Shanahan going to Dallas to be Jerry Jones lackey. As I said in the first post, "it wouldn't surprise me"...which is not the same as "it's gonne happen".

Either way...don't expect to see Shanny with the Cowboys.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 04:43 PM
Well you can always use history as a pretty good indicator. The last 4 Defenses he has coordinated ranked 29th, 19th, 25th, and 31st. If I remember correctly KHan had a great breakdown of how he actually set records for defensive futility in Green bay, Fewest forced turnovers.


That's interesting information. I wonder where the Pats would be today if they let history be their deciding indicator when the decision to hire Belichick was on the table.

I'm not trying to defend Slowick because there's nothing to defend. I just don't think that there's honestly much to attack either. The scaffolding on this team was still up, and at the moment, the defense was a wall of exposed studs, while the offense was prepped and putting on its first coat of paint.

I can't say whether Slowick would have been good or bad if we had spent our resources this offseason giving him the guys that he needed to install his system. I can say that he didn't have those guys. I can say that the players loved him. I can say that the head coach was behind him. And I can say that if he had stuck around and the Broncos had done just that, there would probably be a lot of optimism about what this team could accomplish this year right now. I certainly know that the fan base wouldn't be so divided.

That's not to take away what we can do this year, despite the upheaval. I think that we have good cause for optimism. I just don't believe at this point that the divorce was necessary from a "team on the field" perspective. I don't think that we needed to throw our HOF coach and the team he was building to the winds.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 04:53 PM
But whatever... We did.

Go Broncos.

elsid13
08-04-2009, 04:55 PM
But whatever... We did.

Go Broncos.

funny thing is, that I can see Bowlen turning back to Shanahan if things don't work out in couple of years.

tsiguy96
08-04-2009, 04:59 PM
That's interesting information. I wonder where the Pats would be today if they let history be their deciding indicator when the decision to hire Belichick was on the table.

I'm not trying to defend Slowick because there's nothing to defend. I just don't think that there's honestly much to attack either. The scaffolding on this team was still up, and at the moment, the defense was a wall of exposed studs, while the offense was prepped and putting on its first coat of paint.

I can't say whether Slowick would have been good or bad if we had spent our resources this offseason giving him the guys that he needed to install his system. I can say that he didn't have those guys. I can say that the players loved him. I can say that the head coach was behind him. And I can say that if he had stuck around and the Broncos had done just that, there would probably be a lot of optimism about what this team could accomplish this year right now. I certainly know that the fan base wouldn't be so divided.

That's not to take away what we can do this year, despite the upheaval. I think that we have good cause for optimism. I just don't believe at this point that the divorce was necessary from a "team on the field" perspective. I don't think that we needed to throw our HOF coach and the team he was building to the winds.

the job of the DC is to create schemes to cover the weaknesses of the D. he did not even attempt t change his scheme at any time last year.

footstepsfrom#27
08-04-2009, 05:05 PM
funny thing is, that I can see Bowlen turning back to Shanahan if things don't work out in couple of years.
I seriously doubt he'd return here even if asked, which he won't be.

JCMElway
08-04-2009, 05:13 PM
No way the Giants let him come in. The fact that he's visiting two AFC teams probably means he's going NFC. Hell, Pat and Shanny are such good friends he's probably going exclusively NFC because of that.

2KBack
08-04-2009, 05:15 PM
That's interesting information. I wonder where the Pats would be today if they let history be their deciding indicator when the decision to hire Belichick was on the table.

I'm not trying to defend Slowick because there's nothing to defend. I just don't think that there's honestly much to attack either. The scaffolding on this team was still up, and at the moment, the defense was a wall of exposed studs, while the offense was prepped and putting on its first coat of paint.

I can't say whether Slowick would have been good or bad if we had spent our resources this offseason giving him the guys that he needed to install his system. I can say that he didn't have those guys. I can say that the players loved him. I can say that the head coach was behind him. And I can say that if he had stuck around and the Broncos had done just that, there would probably be a lot of optimism about what this team could accomplish this year right now. I certainly know that the fan base wouldn't be so divided.

That's not to take away what we can do this year, despite the upheaval. I think that we have good cause for optimism. I just don't believe at this point that the divorce was necessary from a "team on the field" perspective. I don't think that we needed to throw our HOF coach and the team he was building to the winds.

I still cannot believe that you are trying defend the idea slowik would have succeeded given more talent. Comparing Belichicks run with the Browns (which despite it's gross mediocrity did win a playoff game during his tenure) to a decade of terrible defense. He had one good defense in 10 years as coordinator and it has been a steady downward trend since 93. There is a reason he always ALWAYS ends up back as a position coach. That reason is that he is a terrible coordinator. 4 teams have tried him, 4 teams had ****ty defenses. How many chances does a guy get?

The retention of Slowik was the best indicator that Denver was going nowhere with Shanahan. I didn't want to believe it at the time, but I've come to that conclusion. A head coach is only as good as his assistants, and Shanahan has been lost since Kubiak left, and knows dick about defense.

I know you will cling to "You never know for sure." You're right, I can't see the future. What I can do is recognize patterns, and it was not looking like a good one with the Shanny Slowik team.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 05:21 PM
the job of the DC is to create schemes to cover the weaknesses of the D. he did not even attempt t change his scheme at any time last year.



Says you. As far as I know, Slowick's job last year was to install as much of his defense as he could, especially where terminology and formations are concerned. As I understood it, Shanahan wanted to build continuity at that position since it lacked that over the last three years. I don't suppose you can build continuity in the defense if you're "creating schemes to cover the weaknesses of the D." It's understanding that Slowick was tasked to install what he could in order to get the defensive core familiar with the system so that those who would be around in the future could help out the newcomers.

I personally don't think that we had the makings of a Superbowl team last year, and agree with the approach that says "stay patient and install what you can, let's use this season to plant a seed in the heads of our defenders," is a much better approach to building a strong defense than, "Panic! Throw out the system we're trying to build and introduce some half-assed scheme to try and cover a fundamental weakness that is going to be exposed no matter what the scheme is, auuuugh!"

But that's just me. As we've seen, there's not a lot of people who share my argument when it comes to Slowick. I can live with that.

bpc
08-04-2009, 05:23 PM
The thing is, Slowik must have shown something to Shanahan to make him (Shanahan) believe that whatever system/plan was going to be installed was good enough to work. If Shanahan felt that Slowik didn't give him a chance to win, then he would have booted his ass to curb, friend or not.

.... and it wasn't like Denver was his first job. He had previous DC jobs in other places.

I didn't personally care for Slowik but TJ hit the nail on the head... he didn't have crap to work with and needed more talent. That could have come this offseason with the #12 overall selection, a deep class of 4-3 DT's in this draft, and 35 million to spend in cap money.

Greybeard
08-04-2009, 05:26 PM
Says you. As far as I know, Slowick's job last year was to install as much of his defense as he could, especially where terminology and formations are concerned. As I understood it, Shanahan wanted to build continuity at that position since it lacked that over the last three years. I don't suppose you can build continuity in the defense if you're "creating schemes to cover the weaknesses of the D." It's understanding that Slowick was tasked to install what he could in order to get the defensive core familiar with the system so that those who would be around in the future could help out the newcomers.

I personally don't think that we had the makings of a Superbowl team last year, and agree with the approach that says "stay patient and install what you can, let's use this season to plant a seed in the heads of our defenders," is a much better approach to building a strong defense than, "Panic! Throw out the system we're trying to build and introduce some half-assed scheme to try and cover a fundamental weakness that is going to be exposed no matter what the scheme is, auuuugh!"

But that's just me. As we've seen, there's not a lot of people who share my argument when it comes to Slowick. I can live with that.

I hated to see Shanny go when he left.

But I like where Slowick is now . . . gone!

-----

Taco John
08-04-2009, 05:27 PM
I still cannot believe that you are trying defend the idea slowik would have succeeded given more talent. Comparing Belichicks run with the Browns (which despite it's gross mediocrity did win a playoff game during his tenure) to a decade of terrible defense. He had one good defense in 10 years as coordinator and it has been a steady downward trend since 93. There is a reason he always ALWAYS ends up back as a position coach. That reason is that he is a terrible coordinator. 4 teams have tried him, 4 teams had ****ty defenses. How many chances does a guy get?

The retention of Slowik was the best indicator that Denver was going nowhere with Shanahan. I didn't want to believe it at the time, but I've come to that conclusion. A head coach is only as good as his assistants, and Shanahan has been lost since Kubiak left, and knows dick about defense.

I know you will cling to "You never know for sure." You're right, I can't see the future. What I can do is recognize patterns, and it was not looking like a good one with the Shanny Slowik team.


I can accept that you were OK with getting rid of Slowick before we gave him the tools to install his defense. I'm ok with that. I just personally believe in fresh starts. As I said, I don't think that I would have been a fan of his defense, had we gotten to see it. But we didn't actually get to see it, and that's all that I'm saying. I think the guy was unfairly maligned for the job that he did in Denver. If the criticism is based on what he did in other jobs, then the criticism seems very valid. But my comments pertain specifically to the job he did in Denver.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 05:31 PM
.... and it wasn't like Denver was his first job. He had previous DC jobs in other places.

I didn't personally care for Slowik but TJ hit the nail on the head... he didn't have crap to work with and needed more talent. That could have come this offseason with the #12 overall selection, a deep class of 4-3 DT's in this draft, and 35 million to spend in cap money.


I think our offense would have been a very serious draw to certain quality defensive free agents out there looking to attach themselves to something on its way up.

Popps
08-04-2009, 05:31 PM
Bah. Reading some of you folks, you make it sound like Shanahan couldn't put his shoes on the right foot, let alone run a training camp. You, yourself, have been hating on Shanahan for months.

Again, Taco.... I think you should be a little better informed on what is "hating" and what is fundamental football opinion/analysis.

Here, let me help you.

Hating: Calling our owner a Gutless Drunk, and then spending subsequent weeks and months encouraging hateful, slanderous, personal attacks on our owner. You took it way beyond football, and then fostered an atmosphere where extremely hateful rhetoric was tolerated, and no... it wasn't all joking.

So, hopefully you can understand the difference between hateful, ignorant behavior... and someone simply feeling the franchise was ready for a change.

See, I was here defending Shanahan for years when you bashed him for "not using Griese properly." I defended him through the very successful Plummer years, and even through his demise... while I may have been critical of him, I never attacked his person or demeaned what he did for us.

In fact, I preface almost every single post about him with the fact that I think he's the best coach we've ever had, and the best game-day coach in the league. (Coach, not GM.... coach.)

So, as usual, you just ended up on the wrong side of the trade. No surprise.

You spent the day before Shanahan was fired lecturing us all about how we were all idiots for thinking he might be let go, and how we needed to wise up and basically think more like you.

Turns out, Broncos brass agreed it was time for a change, and the proper change was made. Bowlen was tearful, Shanahan was tearful and both paid huge compliments to each other.

You on the other hand? You acted despicably, embarrassing yourself for months on your own message board. I guess that was just your way of not having to admit you were wrong.


So, maybe you should consider holding the "haters" rhetoric down, boss... as you've clearly been the biggest instigator of truly hateful behavior on your own message board.... not those of us fans that wanted to see the franchise make moves to improve itself.

mizzoutigers
08-04-2009, 05:33 PM
wonder when he'll be a guest at our camp :)

Cito Pelon
08-04-2009, 05:35 PM
You really believe that?

Absolutely.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 05:46 PM
See, I was here defending Shanahan for years when you bashed him for "not using Griese properly."

When you have to lie to make a point, it pretty much invalidates the point.

Seriously. "Didn't use Griese properly" in quotes? Hilarious!

My arguments about Griese were never about the way he was being used, but about the quality of protection he had (we moved a back up center to starting left tackle), and the problems that we had at WR after Eddie went down. But whatever. I'm not too concerned about your criticism, because everybody here has dealt with you before and knows how you make stuff up to support your arguments. Why go for a point by point rebuttal when everybody already knows half the points are blatant fabrications.

As far as the accusations of fostering an atmosphere of hate, I have never been in the business of demanding people think in one way or the other, and your longterm existence on this forum is a testament to that. As I mentioned earlier, I haven't perpetuated anything since I first made the fated post. I nearly immediately felt bad about it, but it was one of those things that I couldn't take back without a serious loss of credibility. So I lived with it. I guess I'm not an objective journalist. My heart is in this whole Broncos thing. I lashed out in anger before I could simmer down, and the thing that I lashed out with were based on some pretty ugly reports that I had been receiving from folks that I've known not to BS me. And once the cat was out of the bag, what was I going to do? I did the only thing that I could do - do my best not to fuel it anymore and let the thing run its course.

I wish that I would have simmered down before posting.

But I didn't.

Oh well.

Go Broncos.

Cito Pelon
08-04-2009, 05:54 PM
That's interesting information. I wonder where the Pats would be today if they let history be their deciding indicator when the decision to hire Belichick was on the table.

I'm not trying to defend Slowick because there's nothing to defend. I just don't think that there's honestly much to attack either. The scaffolding on this team was still up, and at the moment, the defense was a wall of exposed studs, while the offense was prepped and putting on its first coat of paint.

I can't say whether Slowick would have been good or bad if we had spent our resources this offseason giving him the guys that he needed to install his system. I can say that he didn't have those guys. I can say that the players loved him. I can say that the head coach was behind him. And I can say that if he had stuck around and the Broncos had done just that, there would probably be a lot of optimism about what this team could accomplish this year right now. I certainly know that the fan base wouldn't be so divided.

That's not to take away what we can do this year, despite the upheaval. I think that we have good cause for optimism. I just don't believe at this point that the divorce was necessary from a "team on the field" perspective. I don't think that we needed to throw our HOF coach and the team he was building to the winds.

Shanny kind of yawned his way through the last three seasons. He had a way of doing things, and if it didn't work out, yawn, no big deal, yawn, we'll try again next year, yawn. And if it doesn't work out, yawn, well there's always, yawn, next year. All we need is, yawn, a couple guys.

TheReverend
08-04-2009, 05:57 PM
I wish that I would have simmered down before posting.

But I didn't.

Oh well.

Go Broncos.

Ummmmm... what?

That's the most classic thread in OM history. In no way shape or form should that be wished away or regretted.

TheReverend
08-04-2009, 05:59 PM
Shanny kind of yawned his way through the last three seasons. He had a way of doing things, and if it didn't work out, yawn, no big deal, yawn, we'll try again next year, yawn. And if it doesn't work out, yawn, well there's always, yawn, next year. All we need is, yawn, a couple guys.

Hell of a revisionist history when a guy that worked 18 hours a day was just lacksidaisically "yawning" through his job.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 06:05 PM
Shanny kind of yawned his way through the last three seasons. He had a way of doing things, and if it didn't work out, yawn, no big deal, yawn, we'll try again next year, yawn. And if it doesn't work out, yawn, well there's always, yawn, next year. All we need is, yawn, a couple guys.


I disagree. I can see why you might think that, but I think the way he was building the team was legit. I think it's much more difficult to build a high powered offense than a top ten defense, and agree with the approach that gives the offense a head start in development before tagging a defense onto it. Shanahan dismanteled a team, and put together an offensive core that looked to be the start of something very special. We didn't have the runningback yet, but the core of Cutler, Clady, Marhsall, and Royal looked pretty special. And I personally believed that we'd have drafted Moreno in the first round given what happened at the position last year. I'd have been curious to see what we'd have done on defense. I can think of two players available this past offseason who would have been cause for some optimism - and I mean, "we're getting set to make a serious run at the Bowl," kind of optimism.

It is what it is.

misturanderson
08-04-2009, 06:12 PM
Taco,

How in the world is 1 1/2 years not enough time to "install a defense"? I mean you are acting like all he needed was an all-pro at every position on the D-line and then he'd be able to run a worthwhile defense. Well no ****, that would make everyone look good. I of course question whether our defensive staff could develop any draft picks into talented players, or hell even realize who the best defensive players were on their team. I mean we had to sit through the first half of the year with Webster as the MLB, then they put in Koutivides, then when they both finally get hurt, Larsen gets put in. He proceeds to outperform the other two for 5 games, and what happens as soon as Webster isn't hurt any more? Larsen gets pulled, followed shortly by Woodyard. And what happens? Our defense tanks for the last 3 weeks of the season after the defense was overachieving the previous 5 weeks with the rookies in. That alone should be enough to prove to you that they didn't know what they were doing.

ON TOP OF THAT, I haven't played football since middle school, but even I could tell that none of the formations we had out there would work. We would rush 4 every time with no stunts or other tricks on 3rd down. THEN we would start the CBs at least 3 yards past the first down marker. Everyone in the stadium knew that the other team would get the first down unless their receiver dropped it. And let's not forget about them trying to work in a 3-4 in the middle of the season (which failed miserably and was scrapped).

To add insult to injury, we also had the fewest blitz attempts in the league and fewest turnovers in the league (13: a record in a non-strike year and only 2 above the winless oilers team from 1982).

How you could even pretend to defend this is absolute nonsense. Bob Slowick may have been the worst judge of defensive talent that has ever coordinated a defense and his schemes did nothing but detract from the skills of his players.

As soon as Shanahan said that Slowick was being retained, I lost all hope that the Broncos would even have gotten to the playoffs this year.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 06:12 PM
Let me add another point of clarity to my statement before Mumford the Amazing Magician comes to transform it into something completely unrecognizable.

I think that it's important to build a Defense. But most great defenses are wasted on offenses that can't capitalize on how great they are. The Grossman Bears come to mind. I like the approach that gets the offense with momentum behind them, and then dumps resources in the defense. I think it's easy to say, "well just build a balanced team," until you're on the clock and have Clady sitting in front of you and you happen to need a stud left tackle to protect your franchise quarterback.

Hamrob
08-04-2009, 06:14 PM
I don't care what the haters say. I love and will always love Shanahan. We were two years away from Superbowl contention.

But oh well...

You go Coach.I agree 100%!

Taco John
08-04-2009, 06:14 PM
Taco,

How in the world is 1 1/2 years not enough time to "install a defense"?


You're counting the year that Bates system was installed as a half year. Slowick didn't install his defense in the half year. He only began installing it in 2008. Last season was all new terminology and etc. on defense.

misturanderson
08-04-2009, 06:33 PM
You're counting the year that Bates system was installed as a half year. Slowick didn't install his defense in the half year. He only began installing it in 2008. Last season was all new terminology and etc. on defense.

He was running the defense in 2008, I'm sure he started installing his terminology/retained terminology for 2009. That 1/2 year still counts. Even if it didn't, that doesn't excuse the other problems I pointed out.

Taco John
08-04-2009, 07:12 PM
He was running the defense in 2008, I'm sure he started installing his terminology/retained terminology for 2009. That 1/2 year still counts. Even if it didn't, that doesn't excuse the other problems I pointed out.


It was an all new system last year with all new terminology. This is a fact.

misturanderson
08-04-2009, 07:14 PM
It was an all new system last year with all new terminology. This is a fact.

Once again, that still doesn't excuse the scheme. Short of having an all-pro at every position there wouldn't be enough talent on the team to make the scheme look good. It was just a bad scheme that played to none of his players strengths and is essentially the opposite of every good defensive team's philosophy. Sit back and let the play come to you, rarely attack.

He also couldn't evaluate or develop talent to save his life.

I can't believe anyone actually thinks Slowick even could have been a good coach.

summerdenver
08-04-2009, 08:31 PM
I don't think any of the former Patriots have left and done things exclusively "the Patriots way". Sure they copy some of the "best practices" they learned and observed under Belichick, but men this successful have egos of their own and want to do things their way. I bet you could find just as many differences as similarities in the ways Crennel, Weis, and Mangini have done things, and I'm sure Pioli and McDaniels will be no different. McD has already done a lot of things much different than Belichick probably would have. So stop with the "Patriot Way" nonsense. It's cliche.

Are you saying - if we are successful it is because of McD and not necessarily because we blindly copied Pats system? If yes, I agree with this.

cutthemdown
08-04-2009, 09:15 PM
Seems to be visiting only the latest SB winners to incorporate whatever he can for his next HC gig. If he visits the Giants, it'd be a smart move IMO.

Cool so he will be visiting Denver soon.

Cito Pelon
08-04-2009, 09:50 PM
Let me add another point of clarity to my statement before Mumford the Amazing Magician comes to transform it into something completely unrecognizable.

I think that it's important to build a Defense. But most great defenses are wasted on offenses that can't capitalize on how great they are. The Grossman Bears come to mind. I like the approach that gets the offense with momentum behind them, and then dumps resources in the defense. I think it's easy to say, "well just build a balanced team," until you're on the clock and have Clady sitting in front of you and you happen to need a stud left tackle to protect your franchise quarterback.

Hoo boy. OK. I don't know what to say about all that, TJ.