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Traveler
08-04-2009, 09:34 AM
What if the controversy between McDaniels and Cutler never happened and we kept the 12th selection in the 1st round. If you had to choose between Moreno or Ayers, who would be your choice?

Knowing our need for defense, Ayers would be the logical choice. But I 'd still probably choose Moreno. Agree or disagree?

Rabb
08-04-2009, 09:37 AM
Moreno, no way Ayers is a #12 pick

MileHighMagic
08-04-2009, 09:37 AM
Shoot the hostage.

outdoor_miner
08-04-2009, 09:40 AM
Moreno, no way Ayers is a #12 pick

Not so sure about this... Check out Mike Klis's mailbag from today:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12985221

The Broncos walked into draft day prepared to take either nose tackle B.J. Raji, defensive end Tyson Jackson or Ayers with their No. 12 pick, and were hoping for Moreno with their No. 18 pick. But when Raji and Jackson went off the board, the Broncos made a strategic decision. They received enough information to believe Ayers had a better chance of lasting until No. 18 than Moreno. So they took Moreno at No. 12, and Ayers was still there at No. 18.

Now, I know this is just a mailbag, but Klis speaks like he is pretty sure of what he is saying...

SonOfLe-loLang
08-04-2009, 09:41 AM
This is actually an interesting discussion lost in the cutler argument. I personally dont think Moreno is the choice if Cutler is still on the team. So the deal isnt as simple as Cutler for Ayers/Smith/Quinn (partially) and Orton...you have to include the moreno element too

TheReverend
08-04-2009, 09:45 AM
This is actually an interesting discussion lost in the cutler argument. I personally dont think Moreno is the choice if Cutler is still on the team. So the deal isnt as simple as Cutler for Ayers/Smith/Quinn (partially) and Orton...you have to include the moreno element too

This.

Moreno isn't as valuable/necessary if Cutler is still under center.

dbfan21
08-04-2009, 09:47 AM
What if the controversy between McDaniels and Cutler never happened and we kept the 12th selection in the 1st round. If you had to choose between Moreno or Ayers, who would be your choice?

Knowing our need for defense, Ayers would be the logical choice. But I 'd still probably choose Moreno. Agree or disagree?

I'd take Ayers. Moreno is a special talent, but if we had Cutler on the team, we'd be A-okay with our RB's as it stands now. We really needed help on D (we still do, in fact). Ayers brings us a step closer to fixing what truly ailed us in recent years.

misturanderson
08-04-2009, 09:47 AM
I agree that the pick would almost certainly have to be defense if Cutler was still on the team and we didn't have any extra first round picks. Maybe we would have tried to trade down, Orakpo was still on the board and someone probably would have wanted to jump Washington, then take Ayers.

Gcver2ver3
08-04-2009, 09:47 AM
Moreno or Ayers, who would be your choice?



VERY good question...

if i had to choose one i'd say Moreno...

help take pressure off of Orton and an added playmaker on O...

our D looks better already even without Ayers due to better coaching...

i say Moreno...

Inkana7
08-04-2009, 09:47 AM
This.

Moreno isn't as valuable/necessary if Cutler is still under center.

What about all the arguments basically saying that all of Cutler's shortcomings were the result of not having a reliable running game?

SoCalBronco
08-04-2009, 09:47 AM
This.

Moreno isn't as valuable/necessary if Cutler is still under center.

Agreed

Traveler
08-04-2009, 09:48 AM
This.

Moreno isn't as valuable/necessary if Cutler is still under center.

Maybe true, but he would be the missing piece from an offense that lacked a feature back. Cutler, Marshall, and Moreno.

s0phr0syne
08-04-2009, 09:51 AM
Eh, I think that Moreno would have been just as valuable a pick if Cutler had stayed.

In this hypothetical, the way I approach it is by thinking about what we knew back then: buckhalter, torain, and hillis were all unknowns in one way or the other--the former two because of their injuries and, I don't feel like the new staff knew what they had in Hillis.

One week into camp, it's easy to forget our dire RB situation towards the end of the year, but even if Cutler hadn't missed-call'd his way out of town, I think it was still a primary goal to get some healthy talent into the backfield.

At the same time, it's obvious we needed pass rush help too. So, if not Moreno in the first, maybe another RB in the 2nd.

TheReverend
08-04-2009, 09:52 AM
What about all the arguments basically saying that all of Cutler's shortcomings were the result of not having a reliable running game?

What about them?

My argument about his "short-comings" has been long-fields (and backed up with league wide stats) and a sheer lack of confidence in the defense which he learned in week 2 when told to go for the 2 pt instead of over-time.

I'd rather have Hillis running the ball than Moreno in any case, at the moment.

Baba Booey
08-04-2009, 09:54 AM
Shoot the hostage.

this is my choice as well

Lolad
08-04-2009, 09:56 AM
It would have been a defensive player. We would've probably have picked up an rb in the 3rd round

Kaylore
08-04-2009, 09:58 AM
It depends on if McDaniels is still the coach. If he is then it would have been Moreno because of McDaniels had concerns about our redzone offense and Moreno was their number one rated offensive player. Keeping Cutler wouldn't have changed that.

If it was Shanahan then we probably would draft Rey-Rey and seen him out of football in two years.

SoDak Bronco
08-04-2009, 10:00 AM
Good question. I would have to go with Defense. It is funny, the question in today's mailbag was spot on with what I had hoped. I didn't know we were going after Moreno, but I wanted Ayers at 12 if Raji and Tyson Jackson were gone. So for us to get him at 18 huge. I was sold on Ayers after Mayock fell in love with him, and his dominating performace in the Senior Bowl.

CEH
08-04-2009, 10:00 AM
I think I read in the Denver post mail bag that Denver had Ayers, BJ and Jackson slotted at #12 and Moreno at #18 and then when BJ and Jackson came off the board they have intel that Ayers would probaly last until #18 so they flip flopped and were ecsatic about how the draft fell in the 1st.

With one pick and that background I would say Ayers at #12

Beantown Bronco
08-04-2009, 10:04 AM
I think I read in the Denver post mail bag that Denver had Ayers, BJ and Jackson slotted at #12 and Moreno at #18 and then when BJ and Jackson came off the board they have intel that Ayers would probaly last until #18 so they flip flopped and were ecsatic about how the draft fell in the 1st.

With one pick and that background I would say Ayers at #12

You have outdoor miner on ignore? See the fourth post up above.

s0phr0syne
08-04-2009, 10:06 AM
You have outdoor miner on ignore? See the fourth post up above.


lol, you know that the majority of people who post here don't read beyond the OP and just post some BS without really engaging the discussion.

Broncoman13
08-04-2009, 10:25 AM
This.

Moreno isn't as valuable/necessary if Cutler is still under center.

Robery Ayers would have been the pick, I agree.

Br0nc0Buster
08-04-2009, 10:45 AM
Ayers
Nothing against Knoshown, but with the additions of Jordan and Buckhalter along with Hillis already I thought he was a bit of a luxury pick.

As already stated, I dont think the FO valued Moreno over Ayers, just thought he would be easier to get later on, which they were apperently right.

Had Shanahan still been here though there is no doubt in my mind the pick would of been Rey Rey or Brian Orakpo

Chris
08-04-2009, 11:45 AM
Not so sure about this... Check out Mike Klis's mailbag from today:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12985221



Now, I know this is just a mailbag, but Klis speaks like he is pretty sure of what he is saying...

We f'ed the chargers by taking Moreno at 12. Simple as that.

Los Broncos
08-04-2009, 12:34 PM
Ayers

cmhargrove
08-04-2009, 02:10 PM
Didn't we get both of the players we "wanted?"

Does it matter?

I just want two hard working starters that will help win games, I really don't care about the draft order. But, if you are asking, I say Moreno was picked correctly at 12. I think he would have been gone by 18.

I hope Ayers works out, but I didn't really even have him pegged at #18. I was hoping he would fall to us in round 2 (with only one solid collegiate year under his belt). The coaches see something in him, and I have no reason to doubt that, but I was personally hoping for Larry English at 18.

I'm crossing my fingers and hoping Ayers turns out to be a stud. He shows some great highlights, hopefully that translates to a new position.

boltaneer
08-04-2009, 02:22 PM
We f'ed the chargers by taking Moreno at 12. Simple as that.

I don't know where you get that from.

Their biggest need last year was a pass rush. English or any other OLB was the smart pick for the Chargers, even if Moreno was still there.

We'll never know if the Chargers actually wanted Moreno or not but defense or offensive line were the picks that were being talked about.

And if McDaniels drafted a player to just as an attempt to screw another team, you guys are in worse shape than people already think.

CoopDawg
08-04-2009, 02:24 PM
Orakpo is the pick if we still have Cutler.

footstepsfrom#27
08-04-2009, 02:26 PM
Brian Orakpo

400HZ
08-04-2009, 02:42 PM
We f'ed the chargers by taking Moreno at 12. Simple as that.

I don't feel f'ed over. :notworthy

There was absolutely no way that San Diego was going to carry three big-money running backs this year. Some of the local media pawns couldn't see past that and got people hyped up for guys like Wells and Knowshon, but I was confident all along that running back was a position on the back burner for AJ Smith. I was stoked when he spent our first four picks on trench nasties. He has been screwing around and not adding to those positions for too long.

Broncojef
08-04-2009, 02:43 PM
Moreno became a convienient luxury with the draft picks we had. Ayers is what we needed. Moreno would have been a Charger if we didn't take him, after this season I think we'll see what a huge bullet we dodged.

Dark Helmet
08-04-2009, 03:00 PM
Ayers for sure. RBs have a short life span in the NFL and we have a solid line to assist with the running game regardless of who's back there. The first thing that popped into my mind was the Texans 1st pick the other year when they picked up Super Mario instead of Harry Bush.

Punisher
08-04-2009, 03:04 PM
What if the controversy between McDaniels and Cutler never happened and we kept the 12th selection in the 1st round. If you had to choose between Moreno or Ayers, who would be your choice?

Knowing our need for defense, Ayers would be the logical choice. But I 'd still probably choose Moreno. Agree or disagree?

What if Jake Plummer was a rookie this year and he was there at the 12th pick and Cutler was on our team as a LB/DE :wiggle:

BroncoMan4ever
08-04-2009, 03:16 PM
This is actually an interesting discussion lost in the cutler argument. I personally dont think Moreno is the choice if Cutler is still on the team. So the deal isnt as simple as Cutler for Ayers/Smith/Quinn (partially) and Orton...you have to include the moreno element too

i actually agree. i think we would have taken Ayers or maybe Orakpo at 12, and looked at someone like Rashard Jennings in the middle rounds to be our franchise RB.

elsid13
08-04-2009, 03:17 PM
If Cutler was still here, I do think that Moreno would have been the pick. Moreno seems to fit what McDaniels wants in back and based upon his statements earlier in the off season, he was looking for offense help early. The domino effect would have been A Smith would been selected with our second and would be looking at Michael Johnson in the 3rd for outside help.