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View Full Version : Stink on ESPN:"Broncos front seven is garbage."


24champ
08-01-2009, 09:55 AM
I guess this morning on Sportscenter they are recapping all the divisions and they came up on the AFC West. Stink said the Chargers "stock" is up because they are getting Roidboy back and then the Broncos come up... The Broncos stock is "down" and here is what Stink said about why the stock is down, "You have a disgruntled Brandon Marshall and let me tell ya...their front seven is garbage. They are going to have a tough time this season. "

John Clayton also thinks our D is going to suck since we are moving to a 3-4 and that we don't have the personnel for it.

Bigdawg26
08-01-2009, 09:57 AM
Well tell me how you really feel about Denver's front 7 lol???

Rulon Velvet Jones
08-01-2009, 09:59 AM
If these guys are "garbage", then what was that mess they threw out last season? Garbage is an upgrade.

DenverBrit
08-01-2009, 09:59 AM
I guess this morning on Sportscenter they are recapping all the divisions and they came up on the AFC West. Stink said the Chargers "stock" is up because they are getting Roidboy back and then the Broncos come up... The Broncos stock is "down" and here is what Stink said about why the stock is down, "You have a disgruntled Brandon Marshall and let me tell ya...their front seven is garbage. They are going to have a tough time this season. "

John Clayton also thinks our D is going to suck since we are moving to a 3-4 and that we don't have the personnel for it.

Nice motivational speech, Stink. Ha!

DenverBrit
08-01-2009, 09:59 AM
If these guys are "garbage", then what was that mess they threw out last season? Garbage is an upgrade.

Sewage comes to mind. :D

BroncoSojia
08-01-2009, 09:59 AM
meh, nothing we didn't know already...

broncofan2438
08-01-2009, 10:00 AM
Until we actually see our boys in action, how can we disagree with him? Front 7 may be garbage until proven otherwise

fido
08-01-2009, 10:01 AM
that may well be, but with the reporting of oskie, apa and co. I am buying in with them on the new look and the profusion of new blood in camp....cannot hurt to get rid of the club med that had been going on for a few years now. kudos to the new staff for bringing in a change that was definately needed.

Hogan11
08-01-2009, 10:08 AM
If these guys are "garbage", then what was that mess they threw out last season? Garbage is an upgrade.

Agreed, they may be garbage this season, but at least they'll be well coached garbage.....trash was too elevated a description of what was on the field last year.

Los Broncos
08-01-2009, 10:14 AM
Tell us something we don't know or give it a chance first.

McDman
08-01-2009, 10:18 AM
that may well be, but with the reporting of oskie, apa and co. I am buying in with them on the new look and the profusion of new blood in camp....cannot hurt to get rid of the club med that had been going on for a few years now. kudos to the new staff for bringing in a change that was definately needed.

As much as I enjoy the camp reports, I think they're probably a little homeristic. Everyone was super excited last year at this time as well.

Hogan11
08-01-2009, 10:19 AM
Tell us something we don't know or give it a chance first.

Really, I didn't hear from any of our guys that he was roaming around Dove Valley yesterday....

(Jae)
08-01-2009, 10:19 AM
So what's the problem?

Los Broncos
08-01-2009, 10:20 AM
As much as I enjoy the camp reports, I think they're probably a little homeristic. Everyone was super excited last year at this time as well.

Its the same every year, things will settle in after the first pre season game.

Los Broncos
08-01-2009, 10:21 AM
Really, I didn't hear from any of our guys that he was roaming around Dove Valley yesterday....

Huh?

yerner
08-01-2009, 10:21 AM
Sounds spot on. I mean anybody looking from the outside seeing the likes of Ron Fields, Kenny Peterson and Professor Mcbean starting would have to say that.

Broncoman13
08-01-2009, 10:21 AM
McBean (garbage)
Fields (serviceable, nothing special)
Peterson (serviceable, perhaps slightly above average)
Dumervil (out of position but high potential)
Andra Davis (slow but smart. Average)
DJ Williams (New position lots of potential, time will tell)
Darrell Reid (New position, potential, time will tell)
Tim Crowder (New position, lots of potential, time will tell)
Robert Ayers (New position, tons of potential, time will tell)
Jarvis Moss (new position, below average)

Yeah, kind of hard to argue with Stink's analysis. We knew this going in to the season.

We are going to have to hope for some dynamic coaching and game plans/play calling. And hope that we get some better than expected production from guys like Crowder, Reid, Marcus Thomas, Chris Baker, and Ayers. Anybody expecting this unit to turn into a top 10 unit has unrealistic expectations. I think we can improve to the 18-23 range in terms of total defense... anything above that will be b/c of excellent coaching and a player or two exceeding expectations.

Broncoman13
08-01-2009, 10:24 AM
Really, I didn't hear from any of our guys that he was roaming around Dove Valley yesterday....

He wasn't. I'm wondering if either Casserly or Armstrong gave him this news. The defense has a bunch of players that are unknown right now so I would expect people to have tempered expectations.

TonyR
08-01-2009, 10:26 AM
Yeah, kind of hard to argue with Stink's analysis. We knew this going in to the season.

We are going to have to hope for some dynamic coaching and game plans/play calling. And hope that we get some better than expected production from guys like Crowder, Reid, Marcus Thomas, Chris Baker, and Ayers.

We can also hope and pray we pick up some front 7 guys after the last round of cuts. I'm thinking there will be some scraps that for this team will be upgrades, or at least depth if nothing else.

Hogan11
08-01-2009, 10:27 AM
Huh?

Just saying his analysis is off the cuff is all. No big deal.

Paladin
08-01-2009, 10:29 AM
Hey Stink: Fug you very much.......

Los Broncos
08-01-2009, 10:33 AM
Just saying his analysis is off the cuff is all. No big deal.

It isn't that far off, but give it chance at least, who really knows.

CEH
08-01-2009, 10:41 AM
If by some act of God Chris Baker or Powell show up and become players for us then this D will be ahead of schedule 10 fold

Baker sure looks the part of a stout NT.

fido
08-01-2009, 10:44 AM
As much as I enjoy the camp reports, I think they're probably a little homeristic. Everyone was super excited last year at this time as well.

a change was needed, and I don't mind the 'homeristic', am happy that they somewhat are. It is great to see something positive after last years disaster. And it's not all homerism either....see the jarvis moss comments.

rovolution
08-01-2009, 10:48 AM
If these guys are "garbage", then what was that mess they threw out last season? Garbage is an upgrade.

exactly. anytime you loose a player of John Engelburger's caliber, you cannot call that a downgrade.

Popps
08-01-2009, 10:54 AM
I love Stinky, but considering we don't have one our of best prospects in camp yet... and we haven't named a single starter, I'm not sure how he knows we're "garbage."

I'd say we're a work in progress. Maybe we'll struggle, but I'll guarantee you we improve on last year's numbers. I can't find anyone who wants to take the other side of that bet.

kent156
08-01-2009, 10:54 AM
As much as I enjoy the camp reports, I think they're probably a little homeristic. Everyone was super excited last year at this time as well.

I think two years ago when we had bates and Johnson here and moss was looking like an early beast against lepsis, until we found out lepsis wasn't the player he once was because of injury was more drinking the kool aid. Last year i was hopeful that Robertson was going to be good along with Thomas, but that didn't work out.

BroncoMan4ever
08-01-2009, 11:03 AM
If these guys are "garbage", then what was that mess they threw out last season? Garbage is an upgrade.

i think last season could be classified as vomit chunks and dirty diapers

azbroncfan
08-01-2009, 11:03 AM
I like it Stink. Calling a spade a spade.

tsiguy96
08-01-2009, 11:06 AM
i love how our stock is down because the defense is going to suck. the offense averaged 21 ppg after week 3 last year and still managed to win 5 more games, while the defense was AWFUL. you realy expect any of us to believe the defense will be WORSE this year? doubt it.

~Crash~
08-01-2009, 11:06 AM
If by some act of God Chris Baker or Powell show up and become players for us then this D will be ahead of schedule 10 fold

Baker sure looks the part of a stout NT.

Chris Baker might be a monster I agree give the kid a chance befoe you call him garbage

~Crash~
08-01-2009, 11:09 AM
I like it Stink. Calling a spade a spade.

you know he is out of line . the are some kids that might surprise

~Crash~
08-01-2009, 11:09 AM
Thomas in one gap will be unblockable

Tombstone RJ
08-01-2009, 11:13 AM
McBean (garbage)
Fields (serviceable, nothing special)
Peterson (serviceable, perhaps slightly above average)
Dumervil (out of position but high potential)
Andra Davis (slow but smart. Average)
DJ Williams (New position lots of potential, time will tell)
Darrell Reid (New position, potential, time will tell)
Tim Crowder (New position, lots of potential, time will tell)
Robert Ayers (New position, tons of potential, time will tell)
Jarvis Moss (new position, below average)

Yeah, kind of hard to argue with Stink's analysis. We knew this going in to the season.

We are going to have to hope for some dynamic coaching and game plans/play calling. And hope that we get some better than expected production from guys like Crowder, Reid, Marcus Thomas, Chris Baker, and Ayers. Anybody expecting this unit to turn into a top 10 unit has unrealistic expectations. I think we can improve to the 18-23 range in terms of total defense... anything above that will be b/c of excellent coaching and a player or two exceeding expectations.

With all due respect to stink, fact is the front seven is not set. Guys like Powell can make an immediate impact on the line. Right now it's a guessing game as to who will line up come the first game.

I'm not saying stink is way off base, just that his throwing out a big judgement call without having all the facts.

prunch
08-01-2009, 11:14 AM
I dunno .... any change (within reason) is going to be an upgrade from last season. I think If we can actually stop some people, we will be massively improved from last year.

Remember last year where we literally, and I mean literally, could not stop anyone, anytime.

We don't need the "steel curtain" .... we just need a defense that can keep an opponent to 17-24 points a game.

With McD's emphasis on tough training and Nolan's pedigree .... I can't see how we cannot get to those numbers. I don't think any one of these players is "the fix" but if we get some young guys in there that can keep their fundamentals in, we can't but improve a little ... a little improvement would do a lot.

Even with Babygate gone, I think our young talented offense will still put up very good numbers.

colonelbeef
08-01-2009, 11:16 AM
If the defensive line has not improved and the offense takes a step backward, this offseason was a total failure of epic proportions.

Los Broncos
08-01-2009, 11:17 AM
I dunno .... any change (within reason) is going to be an upgrade from last season. I think If we can actually stop some people, we will be massively improved from last year.

Remember last year where we literally, and I mean literally, could not stop anyone, anytime.

We don't need the "steel curtain" .... we just need a defense that can keep an opponent to 17-24 points a game.

With McD's emphasis on tough training and Nolan's pedigree .... I can't see how we cannot get to those numbers. I don't think any one of these players is "the fix" but if we get some young guys in there that can keep their fundamentals in, we can't but improve a little ... a little improvement would do a lot.

Even with Babygate gone, I think our young talented offense will still put up very good numbers.

We need more 3rd down stops.

Cito Pelon
08-01-2009, 11:18 AM
McBean (garbage)
Fields (serviceable, nothing special)
Peterson (serviceable, perhaps slightly above average)
Dumervil (out of position but high potential)
Andra Davis (slow but smart. Average)
DJ Williams (New position lots of potential, time will tell)
Darrell Reid (New position, potential, time will tell)
Tim Crowder (New position, lots of potential, time will tell)
Robert Ayers (New position, tons of potential, time will tell)
Jarvis Moss (new position, below average)

Yeah, kind of hard to argue with Stink's analysis. We knew this going in to the season.

We are going to have to hope for some dynamic coaching and game plans/play calling. And hope that we get some better than expected production from guys like Crowder, Reid, Marcus Thomas, Chris Baker, and Ayers. Anybody expecting this unit to turn into a top 10 unit has unrealistic expectations. I think we can improve to the 18-23 range in terms of total defense... anything above that will be b/c of excellent coaching and a player or two exceeding expectations.

WTF would you know at this point? Nothing is what you know. You just run your mouth.

rugbythug
08-01-2009, 11:35 AM
Well he needs to say something. He has 08 Data and is applying that to an 09 team. Is no more significant than me saying they will be amazing.

lookin' glass
08-01-2009, 11:46 AM
I think the coaching and game planning will make them respectable. Any semblance to an NFL defense makes them less than garbage. I really think the question is is can they hold their own in half the games. If they can do that I believe the offense can carry them 8 games and make up the difference in one or two more. The idea of the players defining their roles is great. Those with the desire to up their game will succeed. The others will identified and replaced.

A guy on the radio was talking about Jim Johnson and used Jeremiah Trotter as an example. Under Johnson, Trotter was an All-Pro. Trotter signed a big contract with the Redskins and promptly disappeared. He went back to the Eagles and became an All-Pro again. I question the pick of Nolan as DC because I've never gotten the impression he
can coach guys to find their roles. I think (and hope) McDaniels will help with this because of his NE experience.

If this defense ends the year middle of the pack, I'll take it. Anything more would be great.

Harvitz81
08-01-2009, 11:53 AM
Let the media think what they want. I still remember before the 2005 season how much flack Shanny got for bringing in all the Browns defensive lineman. We were going to be garbage according to ESPn and what did that line do....anchor a defense that took us within 1 game of the superbowl. They still don't acknowledge that it worked for that season and still make brownco jokes. Let's actually see what these guys do in the season before passing any judgement. I'm actually glad the media is dogging on us and counting us out because I think we will surprise some people this year.

RMT
08-01-2009, 11:55 AM
As much as I enjoy the camp reports, I think they're probably a little homeristic. Everyone was super excited last year at this time as well.

true, however, for those of us who attended camp last year AND this year, there IS a noticeable difference in how camp is being done. it's very structured, heavy on fundamentals, and the players seem more focused.

it's a step in the right direction.

Jason in LA
08-01-2009, 11:56 AM
It's hard to argue with him on that point. Until they prove otherwise, they are garbage.

Jason in LA
08-01-2009, 11:59 AM
true, however, for those of us who attended camp last year AND this year, there IS a noticeable difference in how camp is being done. it's very structured, heavy on fundamentals, and the players seem more focused.

it's a step in the right direction.

I read that and didn't put much stock into it. I think people notice little difference and will report it as being better. Shanny coached for a long time, and coached for many Super Bowl teams. The guy knows how to run a training camp.

cutthemdown
08-01-2009, 12:46 PM
As much as I enjoy the camp reports, I think they're probably a little homeristic. Everyone was super excited last year at this time as well.

ding, ding, ding. That and it takes expert coaches to really evaluate practices and tape etc. As smart as Kaylore and company are about football, and they are smart, they still are at a disadvantage when it comes to evaluating a pro practice. For one you can't see everything, watch everything, all at same time. You end up with bits an pieces of a much bigger puzzle.

I like the reports because as they go on we get a good sense of at least what Broncos will be trying. Whether any of it will work we won't know until the real games start.

azbroncfan
08-01-2009, 12:48 PM
you know he is out of line . the are some kids that might surprise

What have they proved to not be called that? They are a lot closer to garbage than solid occasional all pros so he is right they are garbage until proven otherwise.

cutthemdown
08-01-2009, 12:49 PM
I read that and didn't put much stock into it. I think people notice little difference and will report it as being better. Shanny coached for a long time, and coached for many Super Bowl teams. The guy knows how to run a training camp.

I think Shanny just got a little to comfortable in Denver. He felt he would never be fired and I think he lost his edge.

theAPAOps5
08-01-2009, 01:21 PM
They are definitely not imposing up front on the DL. But I wouldn't call all the LB's garbage. But polarizing talk like that is what gets people engaged and ratings.

Hamrob
08-01-2009, 01:27 PM
Stink won 2 Superbowls with who? Look, our front 7 are garbage until proven otherwise.

Personally, I think it's hard to make a call until you see them on the field in game situations.

I think that they'll be improved against the run...but I don't see where the pressure is going to come from and I'm a little worried about teams exploited our outside...where we have converted DE's playing OLB positions.

TheDave
08-01-2009, 01:42 PM
I'm a lot more worried about the Dline than the linebackers...

Lolad
08-01-2009, 02:02 PM
when we play the 1st 2 preseason games it'll give us a peak into what will happen this year. I thought the defense was exposed in preseason and said so, because they still couldn't stop the run

Jason in LA
08-01-2009, 02:32 PM
I think Shanny just got a little to comfortable in Denver. He felt he would never be fired and I think he lost his edge.

Simply stretching as a group, which was reported in one of those threads, isn't really a difference maker. Yeah, the little things count, but some things are so little that they aren't significant. Doing drills more as a group isn't going to turn Orton into a good QB. A lot of the stuff I hear reported is just fluff. Like when there is a new coordinator, every player on that unit will swear up and down how it's better than the way it was before. They all love the new system and coach. Then the coach goes out and sucks and gets fired, and then they're all in love with the new coach and system.

I won't be excited about anything until I actually see it work on a consistent basis in the regular season.

lex
08-01-2009, 02:33 PM
Simply stretching as a group, which was reported in one of those threads, isn't really a difference maker. Yeah, the little things count, but some things are so little that they aren't significant. Doing drills more as a group isn't going to turn Orton into a good QB. A lot of the stuff I hear reported is just fluff. Like when there is a new coordinator, every player on that unit will swear up and down how it's better than the way it was before. They all love the new system and coach. Then the coach goes out and sucks and gets fired, and then they're all in love with the new coach and system.




The End

snowspot66
08-01-2009, 02:48 PM
So our soft finesse team that constantly pulled, strained, or tore muscles, and couldn't perform fundamental football tasks such as properly tackling the ball carrier won't in anyway benefit from actually being coached in all of those things instead of an hour long walkthrough discussing theoretically where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to do but not actually doing it in practice.

That's what you're saying?

BroncoSojia
08-01-2009, 03:05 PM
*sigh* Will the D ever look like this again?




<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vBXfwAuzF7g&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vBXfwAuzF7g&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

rastaman
08-01-2009, 03:05 PM
i love how our stock is down because the defense is going to suck. the offense averaged 21 ppg after week 3 last year and still managed to win 5 more games, while the defense was AWFUL. you realy expect any of us to believe the defense will be WORSE this year? doubt it.

What if this year the offense takes a slide backwards and only averages 16-18 points in 2009! And the defense continues to give up 25-30 points a game in 2009, simply put the 09 season could be an absolute disaster. We could be talking 3 to 6 wins in 2009.

rastaman
08-01-2009, 03:15 PM
*sigh* Will the D ever look like this again?




<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vBXfwAuzF7g&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vBXfwAuzF7g&hl=en&fs=1&color1=0x5d1719&color2=0xcd311b" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Boy imagine what the 07 and 08 Cutler led offense could have done playing along side the Broncos 2005 Defense!!!

Paladin
08-01-2009, 03:25 PM
So our soft finesse team that constantly pulled, strained, or tore muscles, and couldn't perform fundamental football tasks such as properly tackling the ball carrier won't in anyway benefit from actually being coached in all of those things instead of an hour long walkthrough discussing theoretically where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to do but not actually doing it in practice.

That's what you're saying?

Well, not in so many words....

lex
08-01-2009, 03:28 PM
So our soft finesse team that constantly pulled, strained, or tore muscles, and couldn't perform fundamental football tasks such as properly tackling the ball carrier won't in anyway benefit from actually being coached in all of those things instead of an hour long walkthrough discussing theoretically where they are supposed to be and what they are supposed to do but not actually doing it in practice.

That's what you're saying?

That is one long sentence.

BroncoSojia
08-01-2009, 03:44 PM
Here's video of the segment


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colonelbeef
08-01-2009, 03:49 PM
Simply stretching as a group, which was reported in one of those threads, isn't really a difference maker. Yeah, the little things count, but some things are so little that they aren't significant. Doing drills more as a group isn't going to turn Orton into a good QB. A lot of the stuff I hear reported is just fluff. Like when there is a new coordinator, every player on that unit will swear up and down how it's better than the way it was before. They all love the new system and coach. Then the coach goes out and sucks and gets fired, and then they're all in love with the new coach and system.

I won't be excited about anything until I actually see it work on a consistent basis in the regular season.

cosign. The fluff is out of control

Tombstone RJ
08-01-2009, 03:59 PM
Listen, as fans we have a right to be excited about our team. Some see the team in nothing but a negative light, that's your choice, fine. Some of us see the team in a positive light and that is our choice.

My suggestion, avoid the threads that you don't agee with. If you don't want to be excited about the team than go hang out with like minded posters and have a cry fest.

You don't like, please go away.

2KBack
08-01-2009, 04:04 PM
Listen, as fans we have a right to be excited about our team. Some see the team in nothing but a negative light, that's your choice, fine. Some of us see the team in a positive light and that is our choice.

My suggestion, avoid the threads that you don't agee with. If you don't want to be excited about the team than go hang out with like minded posters and have a cry fest.

You don't like, please go away.

cosign

Bob's your Information Minister
08-01-2009, 04:06 PM
http://i28.tinypic.com/2yl30u8.gif

maher_tyler
08-01-2009, 04:18 PM
If the defensive line has not improved and the offense takes a step backward, this offseason was a total failure of epic proportions.

Unless we have an injury plagued year, i just can't see us being any worse on D than we have the past 2 years. We forced what, 10 turnovers last year?? That won't happen again this year and with a more conservative QB and better RB's...the only way i see us with a worse record than last year is because of the hard schedule we'll be playing!!

Archer81
08-01-2009, 04:22 PM
Honestly we cant say either way how our front 7 will do. We wont even have the same starters as a year ago. All we can do is wait and see.

:Broncos:

Premier-Ace55
08-01-2009, 05:37 PM
LOL i just listened to that segment and all I can say is if you play in the front 7 and that doesn't motivate you nothing will. Everybody should be working hard to be better. If Stink hasn't even been to training camp and is saying this. He has absolutely no respect for the names of the current 1st 2nd or 3rd string players. If i was one of those players and I heard that i would try to squeeze all available talent out of my body.

lex
08-01-2009, 05:40 PM
LOL i just listened to that segment and all I can say is if you play in the front 7 and that doesn't motivate you nothing will. Everybody should be working hard to be better. If Stink hasn't even been to training camp and is saying this. He has absolutely no respect for the names of the current 1st 2nd or 3rd string players. If i was one of those players and I heard that i would try to squeeze all available talent out of my body.

You might want to take care of that whitehead then.


zing

Premier-Ace55
08-01-2009, 05:42 PM
lol your right and unfortunately i can't think of a come back :strong: i'll have to practice lex

Tombstone RJ
08-01-2009, 06:29 PM
You might want to take care of that whitehead then.


zing

This coming from a poster who knows a thing or two about being a zit. Congrats on your expertise shining through again lex. Your a real legend in these parts...


















































tool

CEH
08-01-2009, 06:36 PM
Simply stretching as a group, which was reported in one of those threads, isn't really a difference maker. Yeah, the little things count, but some things are so little that they aren't significant. Doing drills more as a group isn't going to turn Orton into a good QB. A lot of the stuff I hear reported is just fluff. Like when there is a new coordinator, every player on that unit will swear up and down how it's better than the way it was before. They all love the new system and coach. Then the coach goes out and sucks and gets fired, and then they're all in love with the new coach and system.

I won't be excited about anything until I actually see it work on a consistent basis in the regular season.

I want to see it work in Nov and Dec then we'll know we can compete in the playoffs. I think the goal this year is to have -5 to a + 5 or better point differtial which means the offense need to score about 10 points more and the D needs to give up 68 less. Not giving up 52 to SD and bringing that back down to 20- 23 would make life awhole lot easier

Premier-Ace55
08-01-2009, 07:40 PM
I haven't heard anything positive on the d-line really I'm very concerned regarding that. I mean we need to work on those 3 down linemen alot.

Rulon Velvet Jones
08-01-2009, 07:48 PM
I haven't heard anything positive on the d-line really I'm very concerned regarding that. I mean we need to work on those 3 down linemen alot.

You mean after 3 whole practices?

ton80
08-01-2009, 08:55 PM
If the defensive line has not improved and the offense takes a step backward, this offseason was a total failure of epic proportions.

Agreed, except I see this as the least likely scenario (hopefully). The offense will be slightly better based on the continuity of the offensive line play with an additional year of playing together. There is no effin way the defense will suck worse. Impossible. *uckin impossible.

ton80
08-01-2009, 09:00 PM
Stink won 2 Superbowls with who? Look, our front 7 are garbage until proven otherwise.

Personally, I think it's hard to make a call until you see them on the field in game situations.

I think that they'll be improved against the run...but I don't see where the pressure is going to come from and I'm a little worried about teams exploited our outside...where we have converted DE's playing OLB positions.

Stink won 3 superbowls, one with the redskins.

Premier-Ace55
08-01-2009, 09:56 PM
You mean after 3 whole practices?

Well yeah basically I mean it concerns me right now because I haven't heard anything about these guys except Kenny peterson. Who are these guys like Ryan McBean? I was pleasently surprised about the Kyle orton reports and I'm not giving up on the d-line or saying that there garbage but I am a little concerned because if we arent stout up front we are going to run into the same problems we did last year. That's all i'm saying. I would be extremely motivated to play if I was called garbage.

ghwk
08-01-2009, 10:36 PM
*sigh* Will the D ever look like this again?




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*sigh* No. And does that ever make me nostalgic for Al Wilson.

Broncoman13
08-01-2009, 10:40 PM
LOVE THE VIDEO... This team is going to get back to those tackling ways. Dawkins, Barrett, DJ, Woodyard, Reid, Ayers... Yeah. We are going to be a strong hitting team. LOVE IT.

epicSocialism4tw
08-01-2009, 10:58 PM
The front seven has been garbage for a long time.

Now that McD has essentially dismantled what was going to be a dominant passing attack with the trade of Cutler, this team will need to be even stronger on the defensive line to raise the level of play on that side of the ball to compensate for the discrepancy in production.

Until the BBT addresses the defensive line with anything more than scrubs and journeymen, the Denver Broncos will not be successful in the NFL.

BroncoBuff
08-01-2009, 11:12 PM
I guess this morning on Sportscenter they are recapping all the divisions and they came up on the AFC West. Stink said the Chargers "stock" is up because they are getting Roidboy back and then the Broncos come up... The Broncos stock is "down" and here is what Stink said about why the stock is down, "You have a disgruntled Brandon Marshall and let me tell ya...their front seven is garbage. They are going to have a tough time this season. "
John Clayton also thinks our D is going to suck since we are moving to a 3-4 and that we don't have the personnel for it.
They're both right of course, but Stink is a Shanahan guy, so the harsh-ness of his comments are agenda-driven.

The starting D-line definitely seems like "garbage" ... McBean, Fields and Peterson inspire very little confidence in realistic fans. But I TOTALLY disagree on the linebackers. We have a very talented group of linebackers. Sure, the jumbo OLBs scare me a little ... but Nolan must have a plan.

BroncoBuff
08-01-2009, 11:13 PM
LOVE THE VIDEO... This team is going to get back to those tackling ways. Dawkins, Barrett, DJ, Woodyard, Reid, Ayers... Yeah. We are going to be a strong hitting team. LOVE IT.

I notice you didn't list any d-linemen there ... hmmm...

McDman
08-01-2009, 11:15 PM
*sigh* Will the D ever look like this again?




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Man do I miss big Al. He was a beast!

I love how everyone ragged on the "Browncos" even though we had a pretty damn good defense with them manning our line.

spdirty
08-01-2009, 11:36 PM
Well its a good thing McDaniels picked a running back who will likely miss half of camp over Orakpo, whos already signed, as well as Alphonso Smith, and dickie Quinn. The brilliant offseason moves made by this regime shouldve shored up our front 7.

Bigdawg26
08-02-2009, 01:10 AM
I still can't believe Stink actually called the Broncos front 7 garbage on espn like that lol. I didn't know commentators use strong words like that. He must really be mad about Denver's defensive offseason moves!!

Captain 'Dre
08-02-2009, 07:45 AM
If these guys are "garbage", then what was that mess they threw out last season? Garbage is an upgrade.

Ha!

TheChamp24
08-02-2009, 07:50 AM
Man do I miss big Al. He was a beast!

I love how everyone ragged on the "Browncos" even though we had a pretty damn good defense with them manning our line.

We got lucky that year, thats what it was. In 2005, we had the 15th rated defense, although #2 against the run. However, we had a huge turnover ratio that was the real reason of our success that year. That made our defense look better than it was, which was just an all out blitz party and pray they get to the QB in time. See the Steelers playoff game and you'll see what happens when the QB doesn't get there on time. After that, it just got worse and worse.
And those Browncos were actually decent at holding the line and stopping the run, which is why we ranked so well against the run. They were awful generating a pass rush though.

HorseHead
08-02-2009, 08:57 AM
Stink has to lay off the "Just for Men"..

I liked him better when he was peeing his pants...

rastaman
08-02-2009, 09:12 AM
We got lucky that year, thats what it was. In 2005, we had the 15th rated defense, although #2 against the run. However, we had a huge turnover ratio that was the real reason of our success that year. That made our defense look better than it was, which was just an all out blitz party and pray they get to the QB in time. See the Steelers playoff game and you'll see what happens when the QB doesn't get there on time. After that, it just got worse and worse.
And those Browncos were actually decent at holding the line and stopping the run, which is why we ranked so well against the run. They were awful generating a pass rush though.

Actually the 2005 bilitzing turnover creating Defense would have been most effective playing alongside an Offense that could have scored 27 to 30 points a game. The Bronco 05 Defense would have allowed the 07 & 08 Denver Offenses do go deep into the playoffs if not SB appearances or wins. The 2005 Bronco offense just couldn't score with any consistency once turnovers rasied its ugly head during the AFC Championship game.

During the AFC Championship game against the Steelers, Pittsburgh Defense would have had to prepare and play differently against Cutler at QB vs Pummber at QB. Cutler would have stretched the entire field with his arm and put constant pressure on the Steelers defense whereas Plummer had a limited ability b/c there were certain throws he couldn't make.

Shanny should have kept the Def Coord (forgot his name) from 05, and built the defense within the image and scheme of bringing players who could bilitz and create turnovers. The 05 Def were holding teams to under 21 points a game and Cutler was 13-1 when Denver's Defense held teams to 21 or less points.

rastaman
08-02-2009, 09:16 AM
I still can't believe Stink actually called the Broncos front 7 garbage on espn like that lol. I didn't know commentators use strong words like that. He must really be mad about Denver's defensive offseason moves!!

Stink may still be alittle pissed b/c Bowlen fired Shanny and allowed Cutler to be traded. A lot of NFL color analyst all agree that those were bone headed decisions by Pat Bowlen. Oh well time will tell.:thumbs:

Rohirrim
08-02-2009, 09:21 AM
Keep in mind, Stink was a guard. He doesn't like Dlinemen in the first place. ;D

~Crash~
08-02-2009, 09:30 AM
Actually the 2005 bilitzing turnover creating Defense would have been most effective playing alongside an Offense that could have scored 27 to 30 points a game. The Bronco 05 Defense would have allowed the 07 & 08 Denver Offenses do go deep into the playoffs if not SB appearances or wins. The 2005 Bronco offense just couldn't score with any consistency once turnovers rasied its ugly head during the AFC Championship game.

During the AFC Championship game against the Steelers, Pittsburgh Defense would have had to prepare and play differently against Cutler at QB vs Pummber at QB. Cutler would have stretched the entire field with his arm and put constant pressure on the Steelers defense whereas Plummer had a limited ability b/c there were certain throws he couldn't make.

Shanny should have kept the Def Coord (forgot his name) from 05, and built the defense within the image and scheme of bringing players who could bilitz and create turnovers. The 05 Def were holding teams to under 21 points a game and Cutler was 13-1 when Denver's Defense held teams to 21 or less points.

Coyer

~Crash~
08-02-2009, 09:35 AM
Man do I miss big Al. He was a beast!

I love how everyone ragged on the "Browncos" even though we had a pretty damn good defense with them manning our line.

yes I miss him so much I took 56 off my name utile I find a new LB that is worthy. I like what I see of Ayers when he is traffic so I am think MLB'er for him and he looks solid as a tackler . so there is hope for 56 part of my name to come back...

rastaman
08-02-2009, 09:39 AM
Coyer

Thanks.

BroncoInferno
08-02-2009, 09:48 AM
I am not convinced that our front seven personnel was garbage and not the victims of poor coaching. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're the '85 Bears or anything, but I think the talent is better than what we saw last season.

Cito Pelon
08-02-2009, 09:51 AM
Simply stretching as a group, which was reported in one of those threads, isn't really a difference maker. Yeah, the little things count, but some things are so little that they aren't significant. Doing drills more as a group isn't going to turn Orton into a good QB. A lot of the stuff I hear reported is just fluff. Like when there is a new coordinator, every player on that unit will swear up and down how it's better than the way it was before. They all love the new system and coach. Then the coach goes out and sucks and gets fired, and then they're all in love with the new coach and system.

I won't be excited about anything until I actually see it work on a consistent basis in the regular season.

And there's no reason to say they'll be "garbage" for the same reason.

lex
08-02-2009, 09:52 AM
I am not convinced that our front seven personnel was garbage and not the victims of poor coaching. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're the '85 Bears or anything, but I think the talent is better than what we saw last season.


Yeah, when you look at players individually, its easy to say theyve drafted/acquired duds, but when you look at all of them, you have to question whether coaching has something to do with it.

oubronco
08-02-2009, 09:57 AM
*sigh* Will the D ever look like this again?




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Man I seen alot of #27 in there he sure was a scrappy guy..............R.I.P. Darrent

Cito Pelon
08-02-2009, 09:58 AM
Well yeah basically I mean it concerns me right now because I haven't heard anything about these guys except Kenny peterson. Who are these guys like Ryan McBean? I was pleasently surprised about the Kyle orton reports and I'm not giving up on the d-line or saying that there garbage but I am a little concerned because if we arent stout up front we are going to run into the same problems we did last year. That's all i'm saying. I would be extremely motivated to play if I was called garbage.

That is a fallacy. The back-7 on D had a lot to do with the poor overall play of the D in 2008. The back-7 was fixed up pretty well in FA and the draft (on paper, of course).

BroncoInferno
08-02-2009, 10:05 AM
Yeah, when you look at players individually, its easy to say theyve drafted/acquired duds, but when you look at all of them, you have to question whether coaching has something to do with it.

That's one thing you have to say for McD, he did put together a nice staff with proven credentials, so we will find out for sure how much was talent and how much coaching.

Cito Pelon
08-02-2009, 10:13 AM
Well its a good thing McDaniels picked a running back who will likely miss half of camp over Orakpo, whos already signed, as well as Alphonso Smith, and dickie Quinn. The brilliant offseason moves made by this regime shouldve shored up our front 7.

I guess they could have gone 4 of the first 4 draft picks for defense, but 3 of the first four draft picks went for defense. And really, the front 7 wasn't the only troubles the defense had in 2008. Denver gave up the most 20+ yd rushing plays in the NFL last year, IIRC. And I suspect gave up the most 30+, 40+, 50+. That's a back-7 problem right there, and the back-7 was addressed.

lex
08-02-2009, 10:15 AM
That's one thing you have to say for McD, he did put together a nice staff with proven credentials, so we will find out for sure how much was talent and how much coaching.

Indeed. Perhaps some guys simply still wont fit the scheme but overall, youre absolutely on point.

Cito Pelon
08-02-2009, 10:18 AM
We got lucky that year, thats what it was. In 2005, we had the 15th rated defense, although #2 against the run. However, we had a huge turnover ratio that was the real reason of our success that year. That made our defense look better than it was, which was just an all out blitz party and pray they get to the QB in time. See the Steelers playoff game and you'll see what happens when the QB doesn't get there on time. After that, it just got worse and worse.
And those Browncos were actually decent at holding the line and stopping the run, which is why we ranked so well against the run. They were awful generating a pass rush though.

Yup, absolutely correct.

Denver in 2005 was +24 in TO ratio, IIRC only the third time that a team has been +20 since 2000.

~Crash~
08-02-2009, 10:26 AM
I am not convinced that our front seven personnel was garbage and not the victims of poor coaching. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're the '85 Bears or anything, but I think the talent is better than what we saw last season.

hell Powell might be a total NFL monster I like that the guy is a run stopping monster in College .

~Crash~
08-02-2009, 10:30 AM
I have hated this off season that does not mean this team we got cannot win now .

Orton IMO was and is a QB that can win in the NFL . and he is key if we can put a middle of the pack D on the field .

~Crash~
08-02-2009, 10:32 AM
Fundamentals is key to a winning season not the players we got right now .

barryr
08-02-2009, 11:51 AM
Pretty hard to fix a unit such as the DL in one year when it's not been doing much for years. Easier and takes less time to fix something when you have something to build on. It's been a long time since they have drafted and developed a pro Bowl type DL. Probably a big reason why they have gone to a 3-4 since have better players at LB than DL.

tebowisdabomb
08-02-2009, 04:39 PM
http://i28.tinypic.com/2yl30u8.gif