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Bronco Rob
07-31-2009, 07:12 AM
1. Will Brandon Marshall stay or go?

People who say the Broncos should trade Marshall are also saying: Because that way the Broncos won't have much chance this season. There are many reasons the Broncos shouldn't trade Marshall, none bigger than this: He's too good to dump.


2. Was owner Pat Bowlen correct in firing Mike Shanahan and hiring Josh McDaniels?

Whether Bowlen was right or wrong remains unknown, but this is certain: The change has brought a tremendous amount of new energy to Dove Valley. Shanahan wasn't necessarily good or bad as much as he was status quo. To be around McDaniels is tounderstand why he got the job. To become familiar with his background, the way he thinks, how he conducts business, is to realize he has a chance. That doesn't mean he will become a successful head coach. It just means it's easy to see why he's getting the opportunity.


3. How many rushing yards will the Broncos get from rookie tailback Knowshon Moreno?

A fair expectation would be about 800 with another 300 yards receiving. Almost every NFL coach and executive thought Moreno was the best running back available in the 2009 NFL draft. The Broncos also thought he was the most versatile. Versatility is key in playing within McDaniels' offensive system. The Broncos will line up primarily out of the shotgun and with one tailback. And with veterans Correll Buckhalter, Peyton Hillis and LaMont Jordan also expected to get time at tailback, Moreno isn't likely to carry the ball 25 times a game. But he will be the type of playmaker who can jump-start a drive.


4. Can Kyle Orton be better than functional at quarterback?

In a three-game stretch before he suffered a debilitating ankle injury while playing with the Chicago Bears last season, Orton completed 71 of 109 (65.1 percent) passes for 923 yards

QB Kyle Orton (John Leyba, The Denver Post)(307.7 yards per game) and five touchdowns with no interceptions. And that was for the conservative-minded, receiver-challenged Bears. Think what he can do while operating out of the New England-style system with Eddie Royal, Marshall, Moreno and Tony Scheffler as weapons.


5. Did the Broncos do enough to upgrade their defensive front?

Deep-thinking football fans might consider this question No. 1. The Broncos' defense ranked 30th against the run in 2007 and gave up 3 1/2 more rushing yards per game last year. The Broncos' front three (Kenny Peterson, Ron Fields, Ryan McBean, as they lined up in the final minicamp) may be relatively unknown but will be bigger compared to previous front lines and will have more physical players behind them at linebacker (Andra Davis) and the secondary (Brian Dawkins).


6. What should be expected from kicker Matt Prater?

Prater went from arguably the league's top kicking weapon through the first five games last season to one who couldn't be counted on to make an extra point in a playoff-or-bust game by season's end. The Broncos see way too much talent to not give Prater another shot. Eventually, they will see whether he can make the late-game field goal with the outcome in the balance.


7. Who are some sleepers to make the 53-man roster?

Among the undrafted rookies, 329-pound nose tackle Chris Baker should have a great chance. Rulon Davis, a 26-year-old rookie defensive end, and inside linebacker Lee Robinson also could benefit from the switch to the 3-4 defense. Among veterans, receiver Chad Jackson could benefit from spending the 2006-07 seasons with McDaniels in New England.



8. Can Robert Ayers and Elvis Dumervil stand up at outside linebacker?

Though both are considered pass-rushing defensive ends, Ayers may have an easier adjustment because he was drafted into the position. Dumervil is a terrific three-point-stance rusher, and he will play on third down. Backpedaling into coverage will be his camp challenge.


9. Isn't the schedule stacked against the Broncos?

Even in this league of parity, where going from last to first and vice versa is not uncommon, there are so many good 2008 teams on the 2009 schedule Pittsburgh, New England, Indianapolis, Baltimore, the entire NFC East they can't all be down. These Broncos, though, will be bigger and more physical than past versions, especially on defense. They should be better built to handle such a rugged schedule.


10. So how many games will the Broncos win?

Most of the sports books in Las Vegas listed the Broncos' over-under win total at 7 1/2. But because they were 8-8 last year, despite having the AFC's worst turnover margin, expectations should be at least 9-7 this year. The key may be posting a 4-2 mark within the AFC West a split with San Diego and a combined 3-1 against Oakland and Kansas City.








:egbgb:

lex
07-31-2009, 07:17 AM
This has Klis written all over it.

A "fair expectation" for Moreno? 800 yards!!! Are you kidding me? Sorry, but considering where he was taken and considering how RB friendly Denver is (Dennison and Turner are still there plus going from Cutler to Orton), 800 yards just doesnt work.


Whenever I read Klis pieces I always get the sense that he is speaking on behalf of the organization so to temper expectations.

TonyR
07-31-2009, 07:22 AM
A "fair expectation" for Moreno? 800 yards!!! Are you kidding me? Sorry, but considering where he was taken and considering how RB friendly Denver is (Dennison and Turner are still there plus going from Cutler to Orton), 800 yards just doesnt work.


Not if some combination of Buckhalter, Hillis, Jordan, and Torain also get substantial carries which they most likely will. Rookie RB's often hit the wall at some point in the second half of their first year so I'd be okay with this approach. Plus if Moreno is late to camp he very well won't begin the season as the starter. TTT.

lex
07-31-2009, 07:27 AM
Not if some combination of Buckhalter, Hillis, Jordan, and Torain also get substantial carries which they most likely will. Rookie RB's often hit the wall at some point in the second half of their first year so I'd be okay with this approach. Plus if Moreno is late to camp he very well won't begin the season as the starter. TTT.

No. Youve got it wrong. Usually, they are slowly phased into the lineup and often arend integrated as the full time starter until around week 5 to 7, at which point they go onto produce. The wall isnt as much of an issue because they werent fully integrated until partway through the season.

TonyR
07-31-2009, 07:45 AM
No. Youve got it wrong.

No, nothing I said was wrong. Every team/RB situation is different but those rookie RB's who begin the season as the starter typically hit the rookie wall. Adrian Peterson is a perfect example. In his rookie 2007 campaign he started from week 1 and averaged just under 100 yards per game through 12 games. In the final 4 games of the season he averaged 36. They're not used to 16 game seasons.

Now if "phased in" as you suggested I agree the "rookie wall" won't be as much of an issue. But you destroy your point here as well because if Moreno is "phased in" this will also reduce his output for the year. So I'm right either way.

lex
07-31-2009, 07:50 AM
No, nothing I said was wrong. Every team/RB situation is different but those rookie RB's who begin the season as the starter typically hit the rookie wall. Adrian Peterson is a perfect example. In his rookie 2007 campaign he started from week 1 and averaged just under 100 yards per game through 12 games. In the final 4 games of the season he averaged 36. They're not used to 16 game seasons.

Now if "phased in" as you suggested I agree the "rookie wall" won't be as much of an issue. But you destroy your point here as well because if Moreno is "phased in" this will also reduce his output for the year. So I'm right either way.


No, both of what you said is wrong. Most RBs dont log the carries Peterson did as early as he did. I clearly made that point. You have no point.

Also, a 1st Rd running back getting a pass by hiding behind the production of other RBs, just isnt going to work. Try selling that nonsense to someone who wanted to use that pick on defense.

Youve had both legs of you argument chopped in half.

OABB
07-31-2009, 07:56 AM
lex sucks. really.

TonyR
07-31-2009, 08:03 AM
You have no point.


I do have a point, you're just to stupid to understand it.

Two major factors could reduce Moreno's output:
1) Missing camp time and not beginning the season as the starter
2) Sharing the load with the team's other RB's

Both of these factors are not only probably but likely. Again, TTT before you post. This isn't that difficult.

lex
07-31-2009, 08:05 AM
I do have a point, you're just to stupid to understand it.

Two major factors could reduce Moreno's output:
1) Missing camp time and not beginning the season as the starter
2) Sharing the load with the team's other RB's
Both of these factors are not only probably but likely. Again, TTT before you post. This isn't that difficult.

Neither of those are going to work. Again, try to sell that to someone who wanted to draft defense. Arent you tired of making excuses in advance for the current regime? Your whole existence here is defined by making excuses for McDaniels. And Im guessing youre doing it for free. LOL.

TonyR
07-31-2009, 08:08 AM
Neither of those are going to work.

Go look up the output of each of last year's 4 first round RB's and post it here for everybody to see. I'll wait. You're on the clock.

lex
07-31-2009, 08:13 AM
Go look up the output of each of last year's 4 first round RB's and post it here for everybody to see. I'll wait. You're on the clock.


I dont care about other teams dude. Youre trying to justify a first round pick sharing time with 2 career backups. And they didnt play in Denver, which is a RB friendly system. In Denver, theres no reason that a 1st round pick shouldnt be able to put up better numbers than 800 yards and theres also no reason that a 1st round pick should be sharing time with two career backups to the degree youre saying.

Mendenhall and McFadden had their seasons truncated by injuries. Chris Johnson had over 1000 while splitting time with another high draft pick, LenDale White.

Your comparisons dont even have merit if you ignore the fact that Moreno plays in Denver.

Ill just give you a thumbnail of what some solid/great RBs have done in Denver during their rookie years.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviTe00.htm

Terrell Davis-rookie- 1,117- 14 games- 14 games started

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GaryOl00.htm

Olandis Gary-rookie- 1,159, 12 games-12 games started

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeMi00.htm

Mike Anderson-rookie- 1,487 - 16 gamse - 12 games started

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PortCl00.htm

Clinton Portis-rookie- 1,508 yards - 16 games - 12 games started

In game 16 of Portis' year, Portis had over 200 yards rushing. Some wall.

TonyR
07-31-2009, 08:31 AM
I dont care about other teams dude. Youre trying to justify a first round pick sharing time with 2 career backups. And they didnt play in Denver, which is a RB friendly system. In Denver, theres no reason that a 1st round pick shouldnt be able to put up better numbers than 800 yards and theres also no reason that a 1st round pick should be sharing time with two career backups to the degree youre saying.

Mendenhall and McFadden had their seasons truncated by injuries. Chris Johnson had over 1000 while splitting time with another high draft pick, LenDale White.

Your comparisons dont even have merit if you ignore the fact that Moreno plays in Denver.

You're such an idiot on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.

First, you've been arguing on here for a long time that offenses should focus on the run but now you're going to complain about an RB being drafted high?

Second, you're going to comment on Denver's "career backups" while at the same time implying we shouldn't have upgraded the position in the draft? Can you have it both ways?

Third, you keep talking about this "RB friendly system" but we're not running Shanny's offense any more. The NE offense spreads the ball around. Moreno will touch the ball a lot but he won't be a 20 carry guy every week.

Fourth, if Moreno goes 800 and 300 as the article suggests as being realistic he would outperform 4 of the 5 first round RB's from last year, and only underperform the top guy (Chris Johnson).

Fifth, of course we all hope for bigger numbers from Moreno. And we might get them. But we also might not and I think 1,100 total yards is certainly a reasonable expectation.

Sixth, the league has largely moved away from the feature, workhorse RB. There are exceptions of course but I'm not sure why you'd expect Moreno to be a 1,500 yard guy his rookie year. Could happen, but probably won't in this offense. But if your concern is Moreno being underutilized I'd let McD worry about that.

Seventh, any chance you'd consider going back on hiatus?

lex
07-31-2009, 08:43 AM
You're such an idiot on so many levels I don't even know where to begin.

First, you've been arguing on here for a long time that offenses should focus on the run but now you're going to complain about an RB being drafted high?

Weak. Thats not at all true.

Second, you're going to comment on Denver's "career backups" while at the same time implying we shouldn't have upgraded the position in the draft? Can you have it both ways?

See above.

Third, you keep talking about this "RB friendly system" but we're not running Shanny's offense any more. The NE offense spreads the ball around. Moreno will touch the ball a lot but he won't be a 20 carry guy every week.

McDaniels kept Dennison and Turner. Why is that? He has gutted everything else up to and including a pro bowl QB, yet he keeps two of the primary figures in the past running game. He drafts a RB in the first and reached on a run blocking TE. If anything, Moreno should be set up for success more than any RB we've had in recent past.

Fourth, if Moreno goes 800 and 300 as the article suggests as being realistic he would outperform 4 of the 5 first round RB's from last year, and only underperform the top guy (Chris Johnson).

Again, who cares? Of the 4 RBs last year, 2 had season ending injuries. So that leaves Stewart and Johnson. And as soon as Buchhalter or Jordan have a season like the one D. Williams had last year, you might have a point. But, again, theyve been career backups. So there are really no excuses for Moreno not to do better than 800 yards.

Fifth, of course we all hope for bigger numbers from Moreno. And we might get them. But we also might not and I think 1,100 total yards is certainly a reasonable expectation.

Nice to see you coming around.


Sixth, the league has largely moved away from the feature, workhorse RB. There are exceptions of course but I'm not sure why you'd expect Moreno to be a 1,500 yard guy his rookie year. Could happen, but probably won't in this offense. But if your concern is Moreno being underutilized I'd let McD worry about that.

True. But its not like Im saying we should expect 2000 yards or even 1500 yards. But 800 is a joke. Thats 50 yards a game. For a first round rb in Denver thats sad.

Seventh, any chance you'd consider going back on hiatus?

Id rather you go on hiatus.





See bolded.

Beantown Bronco
07-31-2009, 08:50 AM
This has Klis written all over it.

A "fair expectation" for Moreno? 800 yards!!! Are you kidding me? Sorry, but considering where he was taken and considering how RB friendly Denver is (Dennison and Turner are still there plus going from Cutler to Orton), 800 yards just doesnt work.


Whenever I read Klis pieces I always get the sense that he is speaking on behalf of the organization so to temper expectations.

If this were true, then why would he go out of his way to say this:

expectations should be at least 9-7 this year

That's two more wins than Vegas has them earning.

lex
07-31-2009, 08:59 AM
If this were true, then why would he go out of his way to say this:

expectations should be at least 9-7 this year

That's two more wins than Vegas has them earning.

Though it doesnt change my impression of Klis, thats a fair point. Ill just say he does what Im saying often enough where I still have that impression.

BTW, was this Klis? I said it has Klis written all over it without checking to see. There was no link.

TonyR
07-31-2009, 09:04 AM
Weak. Thats not at all true.

How is it not true? You've criticized McD's offense in NE as being pass happy. Isn't drafting an RB high a good sign?

See above.

Are you happy with Buckhalter and Jordan as your starters or not?

McDaniels kept Dennison and Turner. Why is that? He has gutted everything else up to and including a pro bowl QB, yet he keeps two of the primary figures in the past running game. He drafts a RB in the first and reached on a run blocking TE. If anything, Moreno should be set up for success more than any RB we've had in recent past.

He is. But he may not be a 20 carry a game player this season.

Again, who cares? Of the 4 RBs last year, 2 had season ending injuries. So that leaves Stewart and Johnson. And as soon as Buchhalter or Jordan have a season like the one D. Williams had last year, you might have a point. But, again, theyve been career backups. So there are really no excuses for Moreno not to do better than 800 yards.

Sure there are. If he doesn't get enough carries for multiple possible reasons. You have to realize that some combo of Buckhalter, Jordan, Hillis, and Torain are going to get a decent amount of touches.

Nice to see you coming around.

800 + 300 = 1,100. Rushing and receiving. Take a look at the OP.

True. But its not like Im saying we should expect 2000 yards or even 1500 yards. But 800 is a joke. Thats 50 yards a game. For a first round rb in Denver thats sad.

If Moreno + Buckhalter + Hillis + Jordan + Torain = 125+ a game you shouldn't concern yourself with Moreno's share.


The truth is bolded.

TonyR
07-31-2009, 09:09 AM
There was no link.

Bronco Rob isn't too good with links.

lex
07-31-2009, 09:10 AM
Weak. Thats not at all true.

How is it not true? You've criticized McD's offense in NE as being pass happy. Isn't drafting an RB high a good sign?

See above.

Are you happy with Buckhalter and Jordan as your starters or not?

McDaniels kept Dennison and Turner. Why is that? He has gutted everything else up to and including a pro bowl QB, yet he keeps two of the primary figures in the past running game. He drafts a RB in the first and reached on a run blocking TE. If anything, Moreno should be set up for success more than any RB we've had in recent past.

He is. But he may not be a 20 carry a game player this season.

Again, who cares? Of the 4 RBs last year, 2 had season ending injuries. So that leaves Stewart and Johnson. And as soon as Buchhalter or Jordan have a season like the one D. Williams had last year, you might have a point. But, again, theyve been career backups. So there are really no excuses for Moreno not to do better than 800 yards.

Sure there are. If he doesn't get enough carries for multiple reasons. You have to realize that some combo of Buckhalter, Jordan, Hillis, and Torain are going to get a decent amount of touches.

Nice to see you coming around.

800 + 300 = 1,100. Rushing and receiving. Take a look at the OP.

True. But its not like Im saying we should expect 2000 yards or even 1500 yards. But 800 is a joke. Thats 50 yards a game. For a first round rb in Denver thats sad.

If Moreno + Buckhalter + Hillis + Jordan + Torain = 125+ a game you shouldn't concern yourself with Moreno's share.

If the tandem averages 125 yards a game and 75 of that is coming from people other than Moreno, its fair to question the draft pick. And thats the truth.

Archer81
07-31-2009, 09:32 AM
No, both of what you said is wrong. Most RBs dont log the carries Peterson did as early as he did. I clearly made that point. You have no point.

Also, a 1st Rd running back getting a pass by hiding behind the production of other RBs, just isnt going to work. Try selling that nonsense to someone who wanted to use that pick on defense.

Youve had both legs of you argument chopped in half.


TD, LT, Portis, Slaton, Forte, Chris Johnson, Lynch, Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson...lots of rookie runners who started because they won the job in camp outright or had to play because of injury and produced from then on.

:Broncos:

TexanBob
07-31-2009, 04:38 PM
expectations should be at least 9-7 this year.

OHHH! I'd like some action on that line. I'll be shocked if they do better than 6-10.

Bronco Rob
07-31-2009, 05:29 PM
Bronco Rob isn't too good with links.



http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_12954946?source=commented-


:thumbs:

mhgaffney
07-31-2009, 06:07 PM
Moreno's job is to help Denver win games.

Forget the stats.

DarkHorse30
07-31-2009, 08:01 PM
just a side note in this contest of wills: (that happens to be completely off the subject, also)

KFFL says that Karl Paymah is practicing with the 3rd string CBs (vikings)

Broncos_OTM
08-01-2009, 02:02 AM
I dont care about other teams dude. Youre trying to justify a first round pick sharing time with 2 career backups. And they didnt play in Denver, which is a RB friendly system. In Denver, theres no reason that a 1st round pick shouldnt be able to put up better numbers than 800 yards and theres also no reason that a 1st round pick should be sharing time with two career backups to the degree youre saying.

Mendenhall and McFadden had their seasons truncated by injuries. Chris Johnson had over 1000 while splitting time with another high draft pick, LenDale White.

Your comparisons dont even have merit if you ignore the fact that Moreno plays in Denver.

Ill just give you a thumbnail of what some solid/great RBs have done in Denver during their rookie years.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DaviTe00.htm

Terrell Davis-rookie- 1,117- 14 games- 14 games started

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GaryOl00.htm

Olandis Gary-rookie- 1,159, 12 games-12 games started

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeMi00.htm

Mike Anderson-rookie- 1,487 - 16 gamse - 12 games started

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PortCl00.htm

Clinton Portis-rookie- 1,508 yards - 16 games - 12 games started

In game 16 of Portis' year, Portis had over 200 yards rushing. Some wall.dude thisnot mikes team anylonger, come to the here and now look to new england to see what kind of production to expect from our rookie rb ,i.e maroney . so your areguement fails if you try argue that.

watermock
08-01-2009, 02:09 AM
just a side note in this contest of wills: (that happens to be completely off the subject, also)

KFFL says that Karl Paymah is practicing with the 3rd string CBs (vikings)

Paymah was a classic shanny bust.

It's still a shame Beavis managed a coup on the Goodmans.

16slayer24
08-01-2009, 02:39 AM
we arent NEW england still BRONCOS it josh s offense to run no one called us the niners when shanny came here let JOSH be JOSH

lex
08-01-2009, 05:20 AM
dude thisnot mikes team anylonger, come to the here and now look to new england to see what kind of production to expect from our rookie rb ,i.e maroney . so your areguement fails if you try argue that.


You can tapdance and posture all you want. 50 yards a game for a 1st round RB in Denver isnt very good. At some point, the Josh Heads must get tired of making excuses in advance for their guy.

The Joker
08-01-2009, 06:00 AM
It's all relative.

If we have a quality running game with lots of backs getting touches, then Moreno getting 800 yards on maybe 150-200 carries is perfectly acceptable.

If the running game isn't very good and Moreno can't take up the baton and establish himself as feature back and get over 1,000 yards, then it'll be a disappointment after spending #12 on him.

Ideally he'll see about 12 carries a game on average, and go close to 1,00 yards, while sharing the workload with Hillis, Buckhalter and one of Torain/Jordan. Start out with Hillis/Buckhalter/Torain running it in the first half, with Knowshon coming in on 3rd downs. Then let him lose in the second half when the defense is tiring and his elusiveness in the open field will pay off.

Best we don't burn him out with too many carries, too soon. He's only just turned 22.

Broncos_OTM
08-01-2009, 06:28 AM
You can tapdance and posture all you want. 50 yards a game for a 1st round RB in Denver isnt very good. At some point, the Josh Heads must get tired of making excuses in advance for their guy.the only dancer i see is you. i am going to give the coach a chance. so far i like what he has done. i see both sides of this thing lex. so i do see the good and the bad.

Besides WTF did i say that is not true, Mike is no longer the coach. The new coach is bringing in a new system. so all the **** you say about the OLD system is not true. A s long as moreno is productive and does what he is asked how is that not succesfull. Last time i checked this was a team game . alot of good marshall's 102 catches won us alot of games or cutler 4500 yds.

grow up lex you and the others calling mcdaniels names makes you guys look like 4th graders.serioulsly mcpoopyhead pa****ingthetic.

lex
08-01-2009, 01:25 PM
the only dancer i see is you. i am going to give the coach a chance. so far i like what he has done. i see both sides of this thing lex. so i do see the good and the bad.

Besides WTF did i say that is not true, Mike is no longer the coach. The new coach is bringing in a new system. so all the **** you say about the OLD system is not true. A s long as moreno is productive and does what he is asked how is that not succesfull. Last time i checked this was a team game . alot of good marshall's 102 catches won us alot of games or cutler 4500 yds.

grow up lex you and the others calling mcdaniels names makes you guys look like 4th graders.serioulsly mcpoopyhead pa****ingthetic.

Look at post #2. I guess reading comprehension is why youre still in the third grade.

All the crap youre throwing out there trying to justify 50 yards a game falls flat. If he's only getting 50 yards a game, you have to question not using that pick on another position.

If youre not going to utilize a first round RB, its a waste. Its that simple. And RB is a position that can contribute in the first year.