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lex
07-30-2009, 06:48 AM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12942252



McD: Early depth charts are "fluid"
The Denver Post
Posted: 07/30/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT
Updated: 07/30/2009 01:08:00 AM MDT


This is one year when Broncos fans might find greater difficulty getting to training camp than figuring out who has the early lead on starting positions.

Dove Valley has been a construction zone this summer, and while progress has been made in recent days, fans may need patience getting in and out of the free parking lots come Friday, when camp opens to the public.

Once fans arrive and pass through the no-admission ropes, they merely have to see who's playing with Kyle Orton on offense and who's playing with Champ Bailey on defense to figure out the Broncos' current starters.

Former coach Mike Shanahan used to wait until after the first week of training camp before revealing his first depth chart. New coach Josh McDaniels may

be more definitive Friday — so long as people understand competition for jobs almost always leads to depth-chart changes.
"You've got to put somebody first, and you've got to put somebody second," McDaniels said. "The one thing about the depth chart I'd say early is that it's very fluid. There's probably multiple spots where we'll say, 'All right, you're going to start the morning practice, and then the afternoon practice it's going to be somebody else.' "

The starters based on first units used in the team's final minicamp in mid-June:

Defense: (Front three) Kenny Peterson, Ron Fields, Ryan McBean; (linebackers) D.J. Williams, Andra Davis, Robert Ayers and Elvis Dumervil/Tim Crowder/Darrell Reid; (secondary) Bailey, Andre Goodman, Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill.

Offense: (Quarterback) Orton; (line) Ryan Clady, Ben Hamilton, Casey Wiegmann, Chris Kuper, Ryan Harris; (tight end) Daniel Graham; (tailback) Correll Buckhalter/LaMont Jordan/Knowshon Moreno; (receivers) Eddie Royal, Jabar Gaffney/Brandon Marshall and Brandon Stokley.

Still waiting on Moreno, Ayers.

Wednesday marked the final day of the mostly rookies practices. Veterans are scheduled to report this morning, weigh in, complete the conditioning test and start meetings. The team will hold a full-squad walkthrough practice in the afternoon.

Still, the most anticipated arrivals will be first-round draft picks Knowshon Moreno and Robert Ayers, both of whom remain unsigned.

"I don't know how to measure progress at this point. To me, progress is going to be they're going to be here," McDaniels said. "We're not going to stop talking to their representatives, and again, (we're) looking forward to Robert and Know- shon being here as soon as possible."

As of Wednesday, only six first- round draft picks had signed contracts, stalling the process around the league.

"I don't necessarily think this is uncommon, yet, for this to be going on," McDaniels said. "We're

Blog: All Things Broncos

The Denver Post's NFL reporters post analysis, notes and minutiae on this blog devoted to the Denver Broncos.
just waiting for the dominos to fall in place, and that's about how the first round goes."
Moreno was still in Athens, Ga., on Wednesday, working out with his former teammates at the University of Georgia.

No Marshall or Williams.

Wide receiver Marshall and linebacker Williams, two of the four injured veterans who reported to camp early, were held out of Wednesday's hour-long practice for precautionary reasons.

Marshall was spotted at the facility late Wednesday morning, walking through the parking lot that separates the weight room from the main building wearing his workout clothes.

Both players had surgery in the offseason, Marshall on his hip and Williams on his shoulder.

McDaniels said all injured players have been participating in meetings with the rest of their teammates.

"They'll get all the teaching and coaching that everyone else gets in the meeting room," McDaniels said. "They won't get any less coaching."

Footnote.

The team waived injured rookie wide receiver Lucas Taylor. Taylor, who reported on Monday, had not participated in the first three days of practice, but McDaniels would not discuss the nature of his injury.

Mike Klis and Lindsay H. Jones, The Denver Post

kent156
07-30-2009, 06:53 AM
Change Kenny peterson with Marcus thomas and Ryan mcbean with Carlton powell and we are set.

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 07:53 AM
I still don't understand why everyone hates Peterson so much. All he did was produce when he was given a chance. He had 3 sacks from the DT position on a team where the team leader had 4 from DE.

lex
07-30-2009, 07:54 AM
I still don't understand why everyone hates Peterson so much. All he did was produce when he was given a chance. He had 3 sacks from the DT position on a team where the team leader had 4 from DE.


Look at where he went to high school.

Rabb
07-30-2009, 07:58 AM
I still don't understand why everyone hates Peterson so much. All he did was produce when he was given a chance. He had 3 sacks from the DT position on a team where the team leader had 4 from DE.

I was wondering this also

I thought he was one of the bright spots

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 08:04 AM
Look at where he went to high school.

So he went to high school with McDaniels and that changes the fact that he was a good player when the tards running the D last year finally put him in over the rejects they started? He and Ekuban were our most consistant linemen the last 2 years on D. Every time he was out there I remember him flying all over making plays.

I'm sure it also doesn't hurt his 3-4 prospects that he was a DE coming out of college and that he has the body type of a 3-4 DE.

lex
07-30-2009, 08:06 AM
So he went to high school with McDaniels and that changes the fact that he was a good player when the tards running the D last year finally put him in over the rejects they started? He and Ekuban were our most consistant linemen the last 2 years on D. Every time he was out there I remember him flying all over making plays.

Its the HS thing plus, also, people, I think, want improvement on the DL and Peterson represents more of the same from the old regime. And given that he does kind of represent more of the same from the old regime, it also makes it seem like he wouldnt be there if not for the HS connection.

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 08:08 AM
Its the HS thing plus, also, people, I think, want improvement on the DL and Peterson represents more of the same from the old regime.

Fair enough, but it seems to me that those people must not have watched him play the last 2 years and are basing their opinions on a dislike for McD.

McDman
07-30-2009, 08:09 AM
Sucks about Taylor, doesn't seem he got a shot. That must be tough.

lex
07-30-2009, 08:14 AM
Fair enough, but it seems to me that those people must not have watched him play the last 2 years and are basing their opinions on a dislike for McD.

Possibly but what youre saying is kind of a leap. I mean, its possible that people dislike McDaniels because the DL wasnt suitably addressed. There are some who soured on him after the draft. You have to be careful how you attribute points of view to people.

Yeah, there are some who disliked him before and this provides the opportunity to pile on. Another aspect to this is that McDaniels put his brother on the staff. So there is an undercurrent of nepotism in play also.

Gcver2ver3
07-30-2009, 08:25 AM
Change Kenny peterson with Marcus thomas and Ryan mcbean with Carlton powell and we are set.

maybe...

i wanna see how it plays out in camp...i don't care who the names are, i just want the best qualified at each spot to start, and we won't know til after camp...

kent156
07-30-2009, 08:27 AM
I still don't understand why everyone hates Peterson so much. All he did was produce when he was given a chance. He had 3 sacks from the DT position on a team where the team leader had 4 from DE.

sacks are worthless if they are garbage sacks, i like peterson just not as a starter. I just think others have a bigger upset with better coaching.

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 08:27 AM
Possibly but what youre saying is kind of a leap. I mean, its possible that people dislike McDaniels because the DL wasnt suitably addressed. There are some who soured on him after the draft. You have to be careful how you attribute points of view to people.

Yeah, there are some who disliked him before and this provides the opportunity to pile on. Another aspect to this is that McDaniels put his brother on the staff. So there is an undercurrent of nepotism in play also.

That's true, in a few cases, not that his brother got an important job by any means. The Paxton signing also comes to mind . Shanahan did the same things, so it isn't exclusive to McD.

I just don't see what's wrong with Peterson. Especially when Powell is given as one of the better players, who NOBODY has seen play against NFL competition. I want to believe that Powell will excell given his NCAA stats, but to say that he should be replacing anyone, especially while coming off an achilles tear is a bit much.

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 08:30 AM
sacks are worthless if they are garbage sacks, i like peterson just not as a starter. I just think others have a bigger upset with better coaching.

Were all of his sacks garbage sacks? I have no idea, but I remember him playing well every time he was in the game. I was forced to notice him because of how active he was. He was running plays down from behind as a DT. I really don't know why he wasn't played as the DE opposite Ekuban on non-passing downs so we didn't get run over while tiring out Dumervil.

tsiguy96
07-30-2009, 08:31 AM
Sucks about Taylor, doesn't seem he got a shot. That must be tough.

thats why i dont sit here and hate on people, calling them "camp fodder" and ****. they work ridiculously hard trying to make a team, you think they like being called a player who is being signed just to get cut in 3 weeks?

SonOfLe-loLang
07-30-2009, 08:39 AM
Possibly but what youre saying is kind of a leap. I mean, its possible that people dislike McDaniels because the DL wasnt suitably addressed. There are some who soured on him after the draft. You have to be careful how you attribute points of view to people.

Yeah, there are some who disliked him before and this provides the opportunity to pile on. Another aspect to this is that McDaniels put his brother on the staff. So there is an undercurrent of nepotism in play also.

Dude, your retardation knows no bounds. First off, McDaniels' brother is not our D-coordinator, he's not a position coach, he's basically that guy that holds the headset cord (if they hadn't gone wireless). And, gosh, i dunno, maybe he knows a thing or two about football too! You act like next year he's going to let his mother call the plays.

And to not want Peterson because he's symbolic of the old regime is stupid. He's not dick cheney, he was probably the one bright spot on our line last season. Also, for the people who demand Carlton Powell start, what the hell is this based on? Perhaps he might be a good player, but he's never played even a down of preseason NFL football in his life.

lex
07-30-2009, 08:44 AM
Dude, your retardation knows no bounds. First off, McDaniels' brother is not our D-coordinator, he's not a position coach, he's basically that guy that holds the headset cord (if they hadn't gone wireless). And, gosh, i dunno, maybe he knows a thing or two about football too! You act like next year he's going to let his mother call the plays.

And to not want Peterson because he's symbolic of the old regime is stupid. He's not dick cheney, he was probably the one bright spot on our line last season. Also, for the people who demand Carlton Powell start, what the hell is this based on? Perhaps he might be a good player, but he's never played even a down of preseason NFL football in his life.


Hold on there ****head. Im not acting like anything. The guy asked a question tied into why people are sour on Peterson/McDaniels and I spoke of some of the various reasons out there.

Anyone with a 5th grade reading comprehension can see that. Given that, you're not in the position to call anyone retarded. Youre too limited by your own stupidity for your insults to mean anything.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-30-2009, 08:47 AM
Hold on there ****head. Im not acting like anything. The guy asked a question tied into why people are sour on Peterson/McDaniels and I spoke of some of the various reasons out there.

Anyone with a 5th grade reading comprehension can see that. Given that, you're not in the position to call anyone retarded. Youre too limited by your own stupidity for your insults to mean anything.

I love when you get flustered and just say things like "im stupid? no you're stupid." Your reasons are completely unjustified and you're blinded by your hate for McDaniels.

lex
07-30-2009, 08:50 AM
I love when you get flustered and just say things like "im stupid? no you're stupid." Your reasons are completely unjustified and you're blinded by your hate for McDaniels.


I guess you feel that because you called me stupid first, calling you stupid is off limits even though you've clearly demonstrated a defiency in reading comprehension.

"I better call him stupid before he calls me stupid." Its time to get out of grade school, dude.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-30-2009, 08:59 AM
I guess you feel that because you called me stupid first, calling you stupid is off limits even though you've clearly demonstrated a defiency in reading comprehension.

"I better call him stupid before he calls me stupid." Its time to get out of grade school, dude.

Whatever, dude. You keep forgetting that regardless of the context, i just flat out disagree with your reasoning, which i know you concur with. But yes, i shouldnt have called you retarded. The dude at the breakfast counter burned my eggs this morning, so im hungry and punchy

lex
07-30-2009, 09:05 AM
Whatever, dude. You keep forgetting that regardless of the context, i just flat out disagree with your reasoning, which i know you concur with. But yes, i shouldnt have called you retarded. The dude at the breakfast counter burned my eggs this morning, so im hungry and punchy


I dont care if you disagree with me. Just know that if you respond to something I say specifically with something that doesnt fit with what I said, your reading comprehension is going to be called into question. I have minimal tolerance for recycled emotional diatribe.

Traveler
07-30-2009, 09:07 AM
Boys, boys! Back on topic please!

SonOfLe-loLang
07-30-2009, 09:13 AM
I dont care if you disagree with me. Just know that if you respond to something I say specifically with something that doesnt fit with what I said, your reading comprehension is going to be called into question. I have minimal tolerance for recycled emotional diatribe.

Dude, you weren't quoting from fact, you were offering your opinion which is based on your McDaniels hatred. And since you're such a fan of reading comprehension, you'll notice the statement i picked on was your asinine one about McDaniels brother which was YOUR opinion, not the regergatation of someone else's. So go retake the SAT or something, ****head

lex
07-30-2009, 09:15 AM
Dude, you weren't quoting from fact, you were offering your opinion which is based on your McDaniels hatred. And since you're such a fan of reading comprehension, you'll notice the statement i picked on was your asinine one about McDaniels brother which was YOUR opinion, not the regergatation of someone else's. So go retake the SAT or something, ****head

More emotional diatribe. Youre still swinging and missing.

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 09:18 AM
Its the HS thing plus, also, people, I think, want improvement on the DL and Peterson represents more of the same from the old regime. And given that he does kind of represent more of the same from the old regime, it also makes it seem like he wouldnt be there if not for the HS connection.


Did Marcus Thomas and Elvis go to high school with McDaniels too?

SonOfLe-loLang
07-30-2009, 09:23 AM
More emotional diatribe. Youre still swinging and missing.

I love how somehow this is an "emotional diatribe." I don't know why I ever engage in conversation with you, i should know better than to do it. You remind me of some of those ignorant politicians that just never get it, but state your lousy opinion as fact anyway.

lex
07-30-2009, 09:24 AM
Did Marcus Thomas and Elvis go to high school with McDaniels too?


Its interesting that you would ask this given our recent discussion of the concept of relevance.

How is Peterson the same as Thomas and Dumervil? Thomas was highly rated and may have been our best DLinemen last year. Dumervil has averaged over 10 sacks a season in the 2 seasons previous to last year. Peterson represents some guy that was brought in to fill out the roster, kind of like Amon Gordon. Guys like Amon Gordon kind of typified the last regime to many. Peterson is probably more that than Dumervil or Thomas to many.

Nice try though.

lex
07-30-2009, 09:26 AM
I love how somehow this is an "emotional diatribe." I don't know why I ever engage in conversation with you, i should know better than to do it. You remind me of some of those ignorant politicians that just never get it, but state your lousy opinion as fact anyway.

I dont know why you dont respond with something thats actually relevant to what you were quoting instead of emotional diatribe.

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 09:31 AM
How is Peterson the same as Thomas and Dumervil?

Well, let's see.
You said:
Peterson represents more of the same from the old regime. And given that he does kind of represent more of the same from the old regime, it also makes it seem like he wouldnt be there if not for the HS connection.



You're making sweeping statements.

Nothing in your post mentions talent or ability, merely that he was "more of the same from the old regime"

In fact you said it twice.

Based on that criteria, my question was on the money.....and relevant!

Nice try though.

Requiem
07-30-2009, 09:32 AM
DenverBrit takin' Lex out for a spankin', WOOOWEEEEE!

lex
07-30-2009, 09:37 AM
You're making sweeping statements.

Nothing in your post mentions talent or ability, merely that he was "more of the same from the old regime"

In fact you said it twice.

Based on that criteria, my question was on the money.....and relevant!

Nice try though.

Indeed they were sweeping statements. That was dictated by the question. The guy I was responding to didnt seem to struggle with my response the way you are. In fact, to a large measure he agreed with me. Again, my response was tailored to the question that was being asked.

Youre the one who grabbed on with both hands to one item I mentioned and made your own false comparisons as though my response should have been tailored to your random opinions.

Nice try.

Requiem
07-30-2009, 09:43 AM
Lex fires back Dragon Ball Z style!

Kaylore
07-30-2009, 09:50 AM
I have lex on ignore. Can someone post the link?

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 09:51 AM
Indeed they were sweeping statements. That was dictated by the question.

Youre the one who grabbed on with both hands to one item I mentioned and made your own false comparisons

Really?? This was the question:

So he went to high school with McDaniels and that changes the fact that he was a good player when the tards running the D last year finally put him in over the rejects they started? He and Ekuban were our most consistant linemen the last 2 years on D. Every time he was out there I remember him flying all over making plays.


The question you responded to discussed his talent, you ignored that and decided he was on the roster because he went to HS with McDaniels.

Actually, you made the HS assertion earlier to explain why Peterson was on the roster.

It was the ONLY reason you gave.

Again, nice try.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-30-2009, 09:52 AM
I dont know why you dont respond with something thats actually relevant to what you were quoting instead of emotional diatribe.

Holy ****, i did and you blatantly chose to ignore it cause you're an ignorant ahole

lex
07-30-2009, 09:54 AM
I still don't understand why everyone hates Peterson so much. All he did was produce when he was given a chance. He had 3 sacks from the DT position on a team where the team leader had 4 from DE.

It started with this question.

Notice, he did not asked "everyone". There are a variety of reasons and I cited some of them.

lex
07-30-2009, 09:55 AM
Its the HS thing plus, also, people, I think, want improvement on the DL and Peterson represents more of the same from the old regime. And given that he does kind of represent more of the same from the old regime, it also makes it seem like he wouldnt be there if not for the HS connection.

And this was the more amplified response to the previous question.

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 09:57 AM
It started with this question.

Yes, and this was your response:

Look at where he went to high school.

You're making my point nicely.

Well done.

lex
07-30-2009, 10:00 AM
Possibly but what youre saying is kind of a leap. I mean, its possible that people dislike McDaniels because the DL wasnt suitably addressed. There are some who soured on him after the draft. You have to be careful how you attribute points of view to people.

Yeah, there are some who disliked him before and this provides the opportunity to pile on. Another aspect to this is that McDaniels put his brother on the staff. So there is an undercurrent of nepotism in play also.

Notice how the whole discussion was in general terms and not tied to anyone specifically. In fact, I pointed yout that you have to be careful to not attribute a point of view too broadly to everyone based on the impression you have of one (or some).

cutthemdown
07-30-2009, 10:00 AM
I still don't understand why everyone hates Peterson so much. All he did was produce when he was given a chance. He had 3 sacks from the DT position on a team where the team leader had 4 from DE.

I agree Peterson a little under rated.

I could never figure out why we didn't play him more and instead kept Englecrapper out there.

lex
07-30-2009, 10:02 AM
Yes, and this was your response:



You're making my point nicely.

Well done.

Yeah, thats for starters. As you can see, I listed more reasons and acknowledged other layers. But the HS thing is undeniably a reason for people to not be so high on Peterson. Plus I mentioned that he kind of represents more of the same from the previous regime. When you look at the responses on draft day to not using a high pick on a DL, thats not really going out on a limb at all.

But its interesting that you focus in on one item yet again like you did previously.

Again, the person I was replying to didnt really struggle with what was said the way you are. Why is that?

Rabb
07-30-2009, 10:04 AM
Lex fires back Dragon Ball Z style!

ROFL!

this is why he is on ignore, I wish I could ignore him being quoted also

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 10:10 AM
Yeah, thats for starters. As you can see, I listed more reasons and acknowledged other layers. But the HS thing is undeniably a reason for people to not be so high on Peterson. Plus I mentioned that he kind of represents more of the same from the previous regime. When you look at the responses on draft day to not using a high pick on a DL, thats not really going out on a limb at all.

But its interesting that you focus in on one item yet again like you did previously.

Again, the person I was replying to didnt really struggle with what was said the way you are. Why is that?

Everyone's opinion is different.

And it's fun watching you back-peddle as fast as you can from your own posts. ;D

lex
07-30-2009, 10:11 AM
Everyone's opinion is different.

And it's fun watching you back-peddle as fast as you can from your own posts. ;D

How am I backpeddling? Quite the opposite. Your random opinions havent really even been on the mark.

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 10:13 AM
How am I backpeddling?

Very quickly and with good form. Ha!

lex
07-30-2009, 10:18 AM
Very quickly and with good form. Ha!

For that to happen, youd actually have to say something relevant. So far all youve done is chime in with random opinions that have nothing to do with what was said. And now youre making stuff up.

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 10:47 AM
Possibly but what youre saying is kind of a leap. I mean, its possible that people dislike McDaniels because the DL wasnt suitably addressed. There are some who soured on him after the draft. You have to be careful how you attribute points of view to people.

I would reply to this sentiment that McD HAS addressed the D-line by:

1.) Hiring a competent D-coordinator (no more read and react while playing DBs 10 yards off the WRs on 3rd and 5)

2.) Hiring a competent D-line coach (no more Moss in 4-point stance bull rushing every play)

3.) Allowing some of our underdeveloped and underutilized players, that were riding the bench because of some sort of anti-talent decision that had been made the last few years(as evidenced by the rookie LBs being immediately relegated to backup roles despite out-performing the vets when given a chance, Engelberger starting, trading Warren and starting Amon Gordon, playing 4 different safeties before finally promoting Barrett from the practice squad, I could go on, but it should be pretty obvious that the former staff not only couldn't coach defense, but they couldn't even see what defensive talent they had on their own team), to actually prove themselves.

4.) Finally, and probably least importantly, we picked up at least 3 front-7 players, that could have been drafted in the 5th-7th rounds without being considered reaches, as UDFAs. It would have seemed better had we drafted them, but it's actually better that we got them for practically nothing.

lex
07-30-2009, 10:52 AM
I would reply to this sentiment that McD HAS addressed the D-line by:

1.) Hiring a competent D-coordinator (no more read and react while playing DBs 10 yards off the WRs on 3rd and 5)

2.) Hiring a competent D-line coach (no more Moss in 4-point stance bull rushing every play)

3.) Allowing some of our underdeveloped and underutilized players, that were riding the bench because of some sort of anti-talent decision that had been made the last few years(as evidenced by the rookie LBs being immediately relegated to backup roles despite out-performing the vets when given a chance, Engelberger starting, trading Warren and starting Amon Gordon, playing 5 different safeties before finally promoting Barrett from the practice squad, I could go on, but it should be pretty obvious that the former staff not only couldn't coach defense, but they couldn't even see what defensive talent they had on their own team), to actually prove themselves.

4.) Finally, and probably least importantly, we picked up at least 3 front-7 players, that could have been drafted in the 5th-7th rounds without being considered reaches, as UDFAs. It would have seemed better had we drafted them, but it's actually better that we got them for practically nothing.

I often said last year that Slowik was so bad that he made it hard to tell exactly what we needed. I also said that we may not know what we need until we have a more competent DC. With that in mind, Im kind of glad that we didnt throw a ton of resources at things that might have been attributable to having a lousy DC. Im not thrilled with everything that has happened but I am glad Slowik is gone.

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 11:00 AM
I often said last year that Slowik was so bad that he made it hard to tell exactly what we needed. I also said that we may not know what we need until we have a more competent DC. With that in mind, Im kind of glad that we didnt throw a ton of resources at things that might have been attributable to having a lousy DC. Im not thrilled with everything that has happened but I am glad Slowik is gone.

The defensive staff is exactly why I don't think that McD has been nearly as bad in the front office as some people think. Plus he kept the only two offensive coaches that I feel were completely unreplaceable.

He put together an incredible defensive staff, I'm not even sure how he managed to get so many good coaches. It will certainly be exciting to see if any of our D-line "busts" finally show something when they are taught how to play well and asked to attack instead of sit back and get run over.

broncosteven
07-30-2009, 11:05 AM
Defense: (Front three) Kenny Peterson, Ron Fields, Ryan McBean; (linebackers) D.J. Williams, Andra Davis, Robert Ayers and Elvis Dumervil/Tim Crowder/Darrell Reid; (secondary) Bailey, Andre Goodman, Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill.


The only thing pre-camp/PS that makes the 3-4 switch appealing is that we don't have to worry about finding another DT.

The LB's look avg until you get to "...and Elvis Dumervil/Tim Crowder/Darrell Reid"

I am guessing that the front 7 will dictate if this team has any chance to win any games at all this year.

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 11:12 AM
Defense: (Front three) Kenny Peterson, Ron Fields, Ryan McBean; (linebackers) D.J. Williams, Andra Davis, Robert Ayers and Elvis Dumervil/Tim Crowder/Darrell Reid; (secondary) Bailey, Andre Goodman, Brian Dawkins and Renaldo Hill.


The only thing pre-camp/PS that makes the 3-4 switch appealing is that we don't have to worry about finding another DT.

The LB's look avg until you get to "...and Elvis Dumervil/Tim Crowder/Darrell Reid"

I am guessing that the front 7 will dictate if this team has any chance to win any games at all this year.

If Ayers is 3/4 as good as he's supposed to be and DJ can return to his pre-injury form from last year, I would say that the LBs are the least of our worries.

broncosteven
07-30-2009, 11:33 AM
If Ayers is 3/4 as good as he's supposed to be and DJ can return to his pre-injury form from last year, I would say that the LBs are the least of our worries.

3/4's as good? Huh?

I dunno, 3-4 means that the front 3 have to engage blockers and the sacks are going to come from disguised blitzing lbs. We need a strong front 7 to help out our above avg secondary, at least on paper it is above avg...

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 11:39 AM
3/4's as good? Huh?

I dunno, 3-4 means that the front 3 have to engage blockers and the sacks are going to come from disguised blitzing lbs. We need a strong front 7 to help out our above avg secondary, at least on paper it is above avg...

Considering that he's been mentioned as potentially the defensive rookie of the year and best defensive player in the draft, I would say 3/4 of that would be good enough to improve our defense from the 3-4 OLB position (yes I am aware that that isn't really quantifiable).

I agree that the front 7 needs to step up, but the D-line is far more uncertain than the LBs and I would even venture to say that Dumervil/Crowder/Reid is one of the biggest question marks in our LB core. We have no idea how any of them will do as OLBs.

DJ was playing at a pro-bowl level before he got hurt. People forget that because of the chargers game where he was adjusting his glove in the middle of missing a play (who does that anyway?). He was playing exceptionally well earlier in the season though, totally deserving of his new contract. His role in this defense shouldn't be much different than his role in the 4-3 either.

Davis on the other hand has played in a 3-4 so we know what we're getting out of him. He won't be going to the pro-bowl, but he shouldn't be on the street next year looking for a job either.

broncosteven
07-30-2009, 11:52 AM
Considering that he's been mentioned as potentially the defensive rookie of the year and best defensive player in the draft, I would say 3/4 of that would be good enough to improve our defense from the 3-4 OLB position (yes I am aware that that isn't really quantifiable).

I agree that the front 7 needs to step up, but the D-line is far more uncertain than the LBs and I would even venture to say that Dumervil/Crowder/Reid is one of the biggest question marks in our LB core. We have no idea how any of them will do as OLBs.

DJ was playing at a pro-bowl level before he got hurt. People forget that because of the chargers game where he was adjusting his glove in the middle of missing a play (who does that anyway?). He was playing exceptionally well earlier in the season though, totally deserving of his new contract. His role in this defense shouldn't be much different than his role in the 4-3 either.

Davis on the other hand has played in a 3-4 so we know what we're getting out of him. He won't be going to the pro-bowl, but he shouldn't be on the street next year looking for a job either.

Did you read my post at all? My point was that we have 3 avg to good LB's (if Ayers pans out at LB after never playing 3-4 at LB before to my knowledge) we still need one more weakside (i forget is DJ playing weak or strong this year) guy.

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 11:59 AM
Did you read my post at all? My point was that we have 3 avg to good LB's (if Ayers pans out at LB after never playing 3-4 at LB before to my knowledge) we still need one more weakside (i forget is DJ playing weak or strong this year) guy.

Got it, just thought you were saying average as in worse than the WOLB in your first post. My bad.

DJ is weak ILB.

Rock Chalk
07-30-2009, 12:04 PM
Damn how badly can lex get pwned in one thread.

Rabb
07-30-2009, 12:06 PM
Damn how badly can lex get pwned in one thread.

has anyone seen him and Ex-Broncos Fan in the same thread?

just saying...

lex
07-30-2009, 01:31 PM
Damn how badly can lex get pwned in one thread.


I guess it depends on you dumb YOU are. For anyone to have any traction, they need to at least say something relevant. Since that didnt exist, there was a lot of swinging and missing that you, apparently, were impressed with. Im not surprised though. You are from Kansas.

Its obvious they call Kansas the heartland because the brain isnt there.

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 02:30 PM
For that to happen, youd actually have to say something relevant. So far all youve done is chime in with random opinions that have nothing to do with what was said. And now youre making stuff up.

Nope, I nailed you making the same stupid statement.....not once, but three times.

You've been back peddling like a demon ever since, trying to distance yourself from your own comments.

Peterson's on the team because he went to HS with McDaniels. Hilarious!

As for "making stuff up" there's no need, you're comedy gold. :spit:

lex
07-30-2009, 02:36 PM
Nope, I nailed you making the same stupid statement.....not once, but three times.

You've been back peddling like a demon ever since, trying to distance yourself from your own comments.

Peterson's on the team because he went to HS with McDaniels. Hilarious!

As for "making stuff up" there's no need, you're comedy gold. :spit:

Youve done nothing of the sort. The guy asked about the sentiment that exists, which requires speaking in general terms. I suppose youre giving yourself credit for that?

You tried to make a point by saying an apple and and orange are the same thing because theyre both fruit even though that didnt really have anything to do with what was being discussed and I called YOU out on that one. But I suppose youre giving yourself credit for that one.

Youre all over the place and youre chestpounding over an imaginary victory. Its only been a bunch of swinging and missing.

Hulamau
07-30-2009, 02:46 PM
Its the HS thing plus, also, people, I think, want improvement on the DL and Peterson represents more of the same from the old regime. And given that he does kind of represent more of the same from the old regime, it also makes it seem like he wouldnt be there if not for the HS connection.

Nooo ... what makes sense is that KP was one of the brighter spots on an otherwise dismal line with some decent play here and there by Thomas too. The entire D, especially the D line, had TERRIBLE defensive coaching and even worse motivation last year, with a near total scheme change every few weeks it seemed! And it only take one of two goof balls on the 4-3 front to make everyone look like jerks.

KP does have a prototypical 3-4 DE body and style. Lets see where the chips fall in a few weeks but Ill be surprised if he wasn't in the mix, if not starting, at one DE spot.

That he went to HS with McD is just icing on the cake for him. I suspect that a guy like McD who had to live down the nepotism charges his whole playing time in HS plying under his father /coach isn't about to just hand the job to a guy who simply played on his same HS team unless he really earns it as well!

Besides Nunnelly and Nolan will have more to say on who starts there than McD, no doubt.

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 02:51 PM
Youve done nothing of the sort. The guy asked about the sentiment that exists, which requires speaking in general terms. I suppose youre giving yourself credit for that?

You tried to make a point by saying an apple and and orange are the same thing because theyre both fruit even though that didnt really have anything to do with what was being discussed and I called YOU out on that one. But I suppose youre giving yourself credit for that one.

Youre all over the place and youre chestpounding over an imaginary victory. Its only been a bunch of swinging and missing.

My responses follow a straight line....to the point, succinct and without deviation. Nothing but net.

Yours....well, a lot of back-peddling and squirming.......air balls.

lex
07-30-2009, 02:54 PM
Nooo ... what makes sense is that KP was one of the brighter spots on an otherwise dismal line with some decent play here and there by Thomas too. The entire D, especially the D line, had TERRIBLE defensive coaching and even worse motivation last year, with a near total scheme change every few weeks it seemed! And it only take one of two goof balls on the 4-3 front to make everyone look like jerks.

KP does have a prototypical 3-4 DE body and style. Lets see where the chips fall in a few weeks but Ill be surprised if he wasn't in the mix, if not starting, at one DE spot.

That he went to HS with McD is just icing on the cake for him. I suspect that a guy like McD who had to live down the nepotism charges his whole playing time in HS plying under his father /coach isn't about to just hand the job to a guy who simply played on his same HS team unless he really earns it as well!

Besides Nunnelly and Nolan will have more to say on who starts there than McD, no doubt.

Yeah, ok. I was addressing the sentiment that exists. Personally, I dont care what they do with Peterson since its not like he is breaking the bank. But he's also not so good that we cant upgrade there.

But I will also say that the approach of hoping to have a lot of comparable not so expensive guys fight it out, isnt exactly a new approach compared to what we've seen in the recent past. Just look at Mike last year. But its a fair point to make about having a more credible DC.

lex
07-30-2009, 02:59 PM
My responses follow a straight line....to the point, succinct and without deviation. Nothing but net.

Yours....well, a lot of back-peddling and squirming.......air balls.

Since youre into new wave, this is thoroughly appropriate:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/G64LgaaVrlQ&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G64LgaaVrlQ&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 03:03 PM
Since youre into new wave, this is thoroughly appropriate:

Another air ball. Ha!

tsiguy96
07-30-2009, 03:05 PM
no matter how many people tell lex hes a ****ing retard, he will never believe you and keep spouting the same dumb **** constantly. its better to just ignore him.

lex
07-30-2009, 03:08 PM
Another air ball. Ha!

Right. Youre not into it...you just claim to be an expert about it.

lex
07-30-2009, 03:09 PM
no matter how many people tell lex hes a ****ing retard, he will never believe you and keep spouting the same dumb **** constantly. its better to just ignore him.

Theres so much irony here and it all points to tsiguy not being able to see past his own stupidity.

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 03:12 PM
Right. Youre not into it...you just claim to be an expert about it.

Never liked the sex pistols.

I'm not sure why you're introducing the topic into this thread.

Desperation?? ;D

lex
07-30-2009, 03:27 PM
Never liked the sex pistols.

I'm not sure why you're introducing the topic into this thread.

Desperation?? ;D

Desperate would more accurately describe your responses to my reply to someone else.

BroncoMan4ever
07-30-2009, 04:20 PM
Change Kenny peterson with Marcus thomas and Ryan mcbean with Carlton powell and we are set.

hink Thomas and Powell are going to end up being looked at more at the NT position than they are as ends

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 06:05 PM
hink Thomas and Powell are going to end up being looked at more at the NT position than they are as ends

Which is unfortunate at least in regards to Thomas, he doesn't seem to fit the NT role as well as DE in a 3-4, but he's been utilized as a NT the last couple years, so who knows. It doesn't seem to play to his strengths.

Powell, with a few extra pounds, has a great skill set for NT. It's just a matter of seeing if he can hang with the NFL big boys.

Edit: it says on the roster that Powell is 312 at 6'2". That may be a good enough height to weight ratio to anchor the NT spot in a rotation. Not as tall as you'd want in a DE though.

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 06:27 PM
Desperate would more accurately describe your responses to my reply to someone else.


That's lame, even for you.

OABB
07-30-2009, 06:28 PM
24590

LongDongJohnson
07-30-2009, 07:19 PM
I still don't understand why everyone hates Peterson so much. All he did was produce when he was given a chance. He had 3 sacks from the DT position on a team where the team leader had 4 from DE.

you mean 5 you noob

lex
07-30-2009, 09:24 PM
That's lame, even for you.

If thats the best you can do, dont even bother saying anything.

misturanderson
07-30-2009, 10:05 PM
you mean 5 you noob

You're right. Ekuban had 5 sacks. Still, 2 less than the team leader isn't too bad.

DenverBrit
07-30-2009, 10:05 PM
If thats the best you can do, dont even bother saying anything.

:-X

http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i59/kody3am/butthurt.jpg

McDman
07-30-2009, 10:18 PM
thats why i dont sit here and hate on people, calling them "camp fodder" and ****. they work ridiculously hard trying to make a team, you think they like being called a player who is being signed just to get cut in 3 weeks?

Yeah I feel ya man. Most people don't do that because they don't know the guys personally so they have no emotional attachment to them.

I can't imagine how terrible of a feeling it is to get picked up by a team and get hurt and then get waived before training camp even starts.