Time to Call Out the Obama Government

[Rohirrim]

Before it's too late.


But the warning signs are all around us:

-- Unemployment has hit a level beyond the administration's worst projections, and last month reached record highs in Rhode Island (12.4 percent), South Carolina (12.1 percent), and Nevada (12 percent), while Michigan, at 15.2 percent, still has the highest jobless rate of any state. Meanwhile, over 650,000 workers will run out of unemployment benefits come September.

-- Credit card defaults have surpassed 10 percent, and in May hit a record high -- the sixth straight month that dubious achievement has been reached.

-- Foreclosure numbers continue to shatter records. There were more than 336,000 foreclosure filings in June, the fourth month in a row with over 300,000. That meant that, as of July 1, one in every 84 homes had been -- or was in danger of being -- lost. And more than 15 million homeowners now owe more on their homes than they are worth.

-- In the first six months of 2009, 675,351 individuals filed for bankruptcy. In June alone, there were 116,365 bankruptcy filings -- a 40 percent increase over June 2008.

-- Since the recession began, an estimated 2.4 million workers have lost their health care benefits.

And the biggest warning sign that the natural order of things has been disturbed is how many of the very people responsible for the economic collapse not only are still in power, but are still lining their pockets with outrageous windfalls -- courtesy of the American taxpayer.

According to last week's earnings reports, Goldman Sachs posted a $3.44 billion second-quarter profit, Citigroup earned $3 billion, and Bank of America earned $2.4 billion.

On top of this, Goldman Sachs just announced that it was setting aside $11.36 billion for employee compensation through the first half of the year.

And AIG -- which we bailed out to the tune of $150 billion -- is apparently doing so well they're ready to set aside $235 million in bonuses.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/why-visiting-pompeii-has_b_241603.html

And then there's this - Geithner is making sweetheart, backroom deals with Wall Street so that We The People don't get the profit they were promised on these warrants we bought to bail them out:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/20/house-dems-to-geithner-st_n_241622.html

We are being sheared like sheep.

[Meck77]

I called him out yesterday and you said it was too soon. I guess I was 24 hrs too early.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I'm getting to the point now where I just look at this place as comedic relief...we all know the truth...90% of the stuff posted in here is postulated by nothing but a bunch of partisan parrots enslaved to political ideology, who quite frankly are pretty much completely ignorant of what they're talking about.

I saw a clear example yesterday...when Med was confronted with the simple question; "what would you do?"...his response?

"Let's have a coup".

I doubt 1 in 100 in here actually reads more than the headlines or listens with an open mind to anything not in their favorites file of talking heads.

Cutler v. McD is more informative than this drivel.

[alkemical]

I got burnt out trying to show people how the slope got us to where we are....but nobody cared...and called me crazy, etc.

So, i just make my own plans - I'm sorry y'all. But if you can't be responsible and only want to point fingers, you are part of the problem.

[ak1971]

Before it's too late.


But the warning signs are all around us:

-- Unemployment has hit a level beyond the administration's worst projections, and last month reached record highs in Rhode Island (12.4 percent), South Carolina (12.1 percent), and Nevada (12 percent), while Michigan, at 15.2 percent, still has the highest jobless rate of any state. Meanwhile, over 650,000 workers will run out of unemployment benefits come September.

-- Credit card defaults have surpassed 10 percent, and in May hit a record high -- the sixth straight month that dubious achievement has been reached.

-- Foreclosure numbers continue to shatter records. There were more than 336,000 foreclosure filings in June, the fourth month in a row with over 300,000. That meant that, as of July 1, one in every 84 homes had been -- or was in danger of being -- lost. And more than 15 million homeowners now owe more on their homes than they are worth.

-- In the first six months of 2009, 675,351 individuals filed for bankruptcy. In June alone, there were 116,365 bankruptcy filings -- a 40 percent increase over June 2008.

-- Since the recession began, an estimated 2.4 million workers have lost their health care benefits.

And the biggest warning sign that the natural order of things has been disturbed is how many of the very people responsible for the economic collapse not only are still in power, but are still lining their pockets with outrageous windfalls -- courtesy of the American taxpayer.

According to last week's earnings reports, Goldman Sachs posted a $3.44 billion second-quarter profit, Citigroup earned $3 billion, and Bank of America earned $2.4 billion.

On top of this, Goldman Sachs just announced that it was setting aside $11.36 billion for employee compensation through the first half of the year.

And AIG -- which we bailed out to the tune of $150 billion -- is apparently doing so well they're ready to set aside $235 million in bonuses.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/why-visiting-pompeii-has_b_241603.html

And then there's this - Geithner is making sweetheart, backroom deals with Wall Street so that We The People don't get the profit they were promised on these warrants we bought to bail them out:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/20/house-dems-to-geithner-st_n_241622.html

We are being sheared like sheep.

Im pretty sure the Jews did it. Want to buy my book?

[TailgateNut]

300 million population x 12% unemployment = amount of illegal MF's in this country.

That fixes item #1

[broncofan7]

Vote Libertarian. The time has come.

[Meck77]

300 million population x 12% unemployment = amount of illegal MF's in this country.

That fixes item #1

What is Obama's plan to fix this problem?

[Rohirrim]

I'm getting to the point now where I just look at this place as comedic relief...we all know the truth...90% of the stuff posted in here is postulated by nothing but a bunch of partisan parrots enslaved to political ideology, who quite frankly are pretty much completely ignorant of what they're talking about.

I saw a clear example yesterday...when Med was confronted with the simple question; "what would you do?"...his response?

"Let's have a coup".

I doubt 1 in 100 in here actually reads more than the headlines or listens with an open mind to anything not in their favorites file of talking heads.

Cutler v. McD is more informative than this drivel.

Perhaps you could let me know which part of the "partisan" divide I'm on?

[TailgateNut]

What is Obama's plan to fix this problem?


That's one thing no one seems to see as being an issue. If I have cockroaches in the house, I'm calling an exterminator.

[broncofan7]

That's one thing no one seems to see as being an issue. If I have cockroaches in the house, I'm calling an exterminator.

finally--something we agree on.

[Meck77]

That's one thing no one seems to see as being an issue. If I have cockroaches in the house, I'm calling an exterminator.


Well there was one man.

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http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Stossel/story?id=3985423&page=1

[Meck77]

Well it appears Obama is rolling back some of the efforts to clean this country up. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124813721196067083.html

A bill "for a path to legal immigration" aka Amnesty will be on the way.

I'm sure the minute Obama was voted into office thousands of illegals packed their bags and headed north to get a piece of the welfare state. Move over Mr. Jones an illegal needs to get in front of you in the soup line now.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Here's what this jokester is doing on health care reform:

A blogger from Maine asked, “Is this true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and will insurers be able to write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is passed?” President Obama replied: “You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about.”

Huh? Now the President isn't even reading his own friggin proposals even as he continues his assinine 'the time for talk is through' nonsense from one side of his arse and claiming the bill needs more work out of the other side. It's amateur hour at the White House, plain and simple. It's BEEN amateur decade in the halls of Congress. DeMint was right when he said Obama lost any semblance of trust he had stockpiled when he demanded that the Stimulus be slammed through and it plummeted to the ocean floor like a newly drowned puppy. This guy is presiding over the most greedy, irresponsible, ineffective, inefficient, deceptive, and patronizing administration maybe ever. They think you're stupid, America. Are you?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Perhaps you could let me know which part of the "partisan" divide I'm on?
You tell me.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Here's what this jokester is doing on health care reform:
Quote:
A blogger from Maine asked, “Is this true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and will insurers be able to write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is passed?” President Obama replied: “You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about.”

Huh? Now the President isn't even reading his own friggin proposals even as he continues his assinine 'the time for talk is through' nonsense from one side of his arse and claiming the bill needs more work out of the other side. It's amateur hour at the White House, plain and simple. It's BEEN amateur decade in the halls of Congress. DeMint was right when he said Obama lost any semblance of trust he had stockpiled when he demanded that the Stimulus be slammed through and it plummeted to the ocean floor like a newly drowned puppy. This guy is presiding over the most greedy, irresponsible, ineffective, inefficient, deceptive, and patronizing administration maybe ever.

They think you're stupid, America. Are you?
Smart enough to recognize that the numbskullery factor here is rising faster by the day. Exhibit A.

Obama wasn't familiar with a blogger's question? The horror! No doubt you think he's the one writing all these bills right? He sits down with a spiral notebook and sketches it out, or maybe thinks it up on a laptop between appointments with dignitaries. No doubt he wrote the 1000+ page stimulus bill as well.

[Rohirrim]

You tell me.

Let's put it this way, the progressives who thought Obama might be on their side are coming to a rude awakening. Obama has opened logging to some old growth forests, extended Bush's police state, extended Bush's executive privileges to where he is the one now protecting Cheney from prosecution, and he is obviously selling out working and middle class Americans to the greedy bastards on Wall Street. Progressives might as well have voted for McCain for all the good Obama is going to do them. Next time around, third party. No matter what. Hell, I'm going back to ****ing Nader.

[cutthemdown]

Here's what this jokester is doing on health care reform:



Huh? Now the President isn't even reading his own friggin proposals even as he continues his assinine 'the time for talk is through' nonsense from one side of his arse and claiming the bill needs more work out of the other side. It's amateur hour at the White House, plain and simple. It's BEEN amateur decade in the halls of Congress. DeMint was right when he said Obama lost any semblance of trust he had stockpiled when he demanded that the Stimulus be slammed through and it plummeted to the ocean floor like a newly drowned puppy. This guy is presiding over the most greedy, irresponsible, ineffective, inefficient, deceptive, and patronizing administration maybe ever. They think you're stupid, America. Are you?


He doesn't write legislation. Some admins do, but this one seems intent on letting COngress do all the work. After lobbyist get through with them all the law stinks.

We are in trouble people.

[rastaman]

What is Obama's plan to fix this problem?

In just 7 months? You can't be serious! Check back with the empolyment figures in about 2 years. If the employment figure in 2011 as they are in 2009, then you've got point.

[Bronx33]

I'm getting to the point now where I just look at this place as comedic relief...we all know the truth...90% of the stuff posted in here is postulated by nothing but a bunch of partisan parrots enslaved to political ideology, who quite frankly are pretty much completely ignorant of what they're talking about.

I saw a clear example yesterday...when Med was confronted with the simple question; "what would you do?"...his response?

"Let's have a coup".

I doubt 1 in 100 in here actually reads more than the headlines or listens with an open mind to anything not in their favorites file of talking heads.

Cutler v. McD is more informative than this drivel.


You don't find obamas actions a bit odd? forcing bills through is just one of the things that has me shaking my head as well as the senators that voted yes even though they didn't read it. Trying to force extremely expensive healthcare plan through when 80% of americans are currently happy with their current programs so why spend the extra cash emplementing a program that is already failing in other countries. ( you don't find that odd?)

[broncofan7]

O is a huckster plain and simple....Vote Libertarian.

http://www.lp.org/

[ak1971]

This is great...

ObamaCare’s 50% Solution
If the president’s health-care plan—and the surtax to finance it—become realities, the highest-earning
Americans in 39 states would face combined top marginal-tax rates exceeding 50%.

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/BA_ObaCare090720.pdf

[broncofan7]

This is great...

ObamaCare’s 50% Solution
If the president’s health-care plan—and the surtax to finance it—become realities, the highest-earning
Americans in 39 states would face combined top marginal-tax rates exceeding 50%.

http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/documents/BA_ObaCare090720.pdf


Just one more reason I practice in TX...........

[OrangeRising]

You're a doctor?? OMG.

[Garcia Bronco]

I have noticed the obots are getting quieter by the , and I have never heard or seen so much buyers remorse.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I have noticed the obots are getting quieter by the , and I have never heard or seen so much buyers remorse.That's because most of the "patriots" who voted for Bush didn't man up and admit they voted for one of the worst presidents in U.S. history or disappeared altogether.

[Rohirrim]

That's because most of the "patriots" who voted for Bush didn't man up and admit they voted for one of the worst presidents in U.S. history or disappeared altogether.

No ****. At least Obama has the excuse that Bush handed him a smoking pile of wreckage to deal with. I particularly like the ones who voted for Bush twice and still can't figure it out. That's like saying, "Well, yeah I got the clap the first time I went to the whorehouse, but this time, I feel it will be different."

[ak1971]

No ****. At least Obama has the excuse that Bush handed him a smoking pile of wreckage to deal with. I particularly like the ones who voted for Bush twice and still can't figure it out. That's like saying, "Well, yeah I got the clap the first time I went to the whorehouse, but this time, I feel it will be different."

actually I blame you for giving me the clap, but thats a whole other story

[Rohirrim]

actually I blame you for giving me the clap, but thats a whole other story

Next time, don't pick up the soap. Ha!

[frerottenextelway]

Before it's too late.


But the warning signs are all around us:

-- Unemployment has hit a level beyond the administration's worst projections, and last month reached record highs in Rhode Island (12.4 percent), South Carolina (12.1 percent), and Nevada (12 percent), while Michigan, at 15.2 percent, still has the highest jobless rate of any state. Meanwhile, over 650,000 workers will run out of unemployment benefits come September.

-- Credit card defaults have surpassed 10 percent, and in May hit a record high -- the sixth straight month that dubious achievement has been reached.

-- Foreclosure numbers continue to shatter records. There were more than 336,000 foreclosure filings in June, the fourth month in a row with over 300,000. That meant that, as of July 1, one in every 84 homes had been -- or was in danger of being -- lost. And more than 15 million homeowners now owe more on their homes than they are worth.

-- In the first six months of 2009, 675,351 individuals filed for bankruptcy. In June alone, there were 116,365 bankruptcy filings -- a 40 percent increase over June 2008.

-- Since the recession began, an estimated 2.4 million workers have lost their health care benefits.

And the biggest warning sign that the natural order of things has been disturbed is how many of the very people responsible for the economic collapse not only are still in power, but are still lining their pockets with outrageous windfalls -- courtesy of the American taxpayer.

According to last week's earnings reports, Goldman Sachs posted a $3.44 billion second-quarter profit, Citigroup earned $3 billion, and Bank of America earned $2.4 billion.

On top of this, Goldman Sachs just announced that it was setting aside $11.36 billion for employee compensation through the first half of the year.

And AIG -- which we bailed out to the tune of $150 billion -- is apparently doing so well they're ready to set aside $235 million in bonuses.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/why-visiting-pompeii-has_b_241603.html

And then there's this - Geithner is making sweetheart, backroom deals with Wall Street so that We The People don't get the profit they were promised on these warrants we bought to bail them out:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/20/house-dems-to-geithner-st_n_241622.html

We are being sheared like sheep.

The irony of anyone complaining simultaneously about the UER and Gov't money going to the financials. We were almost a failed state and would be one if the Paulson bailouts didn't happen - which is as unprogressive as one can get.

As sick as it is that we were in that position to begin with, it's just as sick that anyone would choose being a failed state over an ugly bailout just to make a point.

[barryr]

And here I thought "the messiah" was gong to fix everything with a simple snap of his fingers. His healthcare plan is one that has been tried and failed mutiple times in other countries and heck, even Mass. tried it and it failed, but hey, let's try do anyway. That's called INSANITY!

[alkemical]

http://cryptogon.com/?p=10014

Obama Nominates Goldman Sachs Executive for State Department’s Undersecretary for Economic, Energy and Agricultural Affairs

[footstepsfrom#27]

And here I thought "the messiah" was gong to fix everything with a simple snap of his fingers. His healthcare plan is one that has been tried and failed mutiple times in other countries and heck, even Mass. tried it and it failed, but hey, let's try do anyway. That's called INSANITY!
Really barry? Which "bill" is that? There are currently FIVE variations and none has actually become a bill yet, and wont' till August at least...let alone law. Here's a link to H.R. 3200 in the House:

http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

Please tell me by section and page number, which parts of this pending bill have been tried in other countries, which countries have done so, what the result was with a link to that info on the web. I await your response and thank you in advance.

[broncofan7]

http://cryptogon.com/?p=10014

Obama Nominates Goldman Sachs Executive for State Department’s Undersecretary for Economic, Energy and Agricultural Affairs

LOL--if any of us who actually post complaints in this forum ever vote again for a Repub or a Dem--we should lose our OM access...BOTH parties are corrupt beyond repair.........

[TailgateNut]

LOL--if any of us who actually post complaints in this forum ever vote again for a Repub or a Dem--we should lose our OM access...BOTH parties are corrupt beyond repair.........

STFU asshole!

[TailgateNut]

That's because most of the "patriots" who voted for Bush didn't man up and admit they voted for one of the worst presidents in U.S. history or disappeared altogether.

There were lots of them in 04, but by 08 they were all libertarians or Ron Paul nut carriers.

[broncofan7]

STFU a-hole!

Please go smoke, drink and eat yourself to extinction you waste of oxygen.

[Garcia Bronco]

That's because most of the "patriots" who voted for Bush didn't man up and admit they voted for one of the worst presidents in U.S. history or disappeared altogether.

LOL. I voted for Bush the second time and I have no problem admiting it. I voted for Bob Barr in the last election. We already know who you'll be voting for regardless of who is running.

[frerottenextelway]

My 401k this year
http://historybyday.com/images/10-percent.jpg



S&P500 since March
http://historybyday.com/images/SP.jpg


I know the market isn't the end all be all, but it is something - especially to those near, at, or in retirement.

[24champ]

LOL. I voted for Bush the second time and I have no problem admiting it. I voted for Bob Barr in the last election.

Voted Bob Barr as well, but the reason I did was because he had the spine to say no to the financial bailout bill. Unlike Obama and McTard.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

LOL. I voted for Bush the second time and I have no problem admiting it.Congratulations, is this like some kind badge of courage you wear on your sleeve these days?


I voted for Bob Barr in the last election.A southern Republican in sheep's clothing which means you threw away your vote as he had absolutely zero chance of ever accomplishing anything let alone winning the presidential election. This is the same guy that advocated complete prohibition of marijuana, made it his life's work to impeach Clinton, tried to pass federal laws not recognizing same sex marriages, cheated on first two wives and is a NRA nut.


We already know who you'll be voting for regardless of who is running. I don't know who "we" is but your powers of predicting who I will vote for is not much more than crapper material.

[Garcia Bronco]

Congratulations, is this like some kind badge of courage you wear on your sleeve these days?

A southern Republican in sheep's clothing which means you threw away your vote as he had absolutely zero chance of ever accomplishing anything let alone winning the presidential election. This is the same guy that advocated complete prohibition of marijuana, made it his life's work to impeach Clinton, tried to pass federal laws not recognizing same sex marriages, cheated on first two wives and is a NRA nut.

I don't know who "we" is but your powers of predicting who I will vote for is not much more than crapper material.

Yeah I did throw away my vote. And I left that booth with a clean conscience because the other two tickets were a choice between dumb and dumber. On the one hand you have an old senator close to death with a runningmate dumber than a bag of hammers. And then you have socialist with a just as dumb runningmate. Oh the choices.

We know you hate George Bush. You even blamed hurricane Katrina on him. Not the aftermath, but the hurricane itself.

You'll be voting on the democratic candidate next time and the next time and the next time.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Congratulations, is this like some kind badge of courage you wear on your sleeve these days?
You gotta admit though, most people would try to hide their own stupidity so kudos to GB for admitting his. :wave:

Impressive.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Yeah I did throw away my vote. And I left that booth with a clean conscience because the other two tickets were a choice between dumb and dumber. On the one hand you have an old senator close to death with a runningmate dumber than a bag of hammers. And then you have socialist with a just as dumb runningmate. Oh the choices. Your choice was better why?

We know you hate George Bush. You even blamed hurricane Katrina on him. Not the aftermath, but the hurricane itself. Dumb, but you do have a problem in reading comprehension at times so to be expected I guess. And who are these "we" people you refer to?

You'll be voting on the democratic candidate next time and the next time and the next time.Like I pointed out, your Nostradamus skills suck.

[watermock]

I've ben calling this for a year, well, 20 years.

It's funny the idiots here.

We're in for a big shock come september, that's why O needs his health care ripoff to get pushed thru now.

It's always an emergency with this guy.

He's a facist controlled by wall street and the globalists.

Unless we wake up and revolt, it will be too late.

The military is building camps and underground shelters.

and diseases.

These mandated vaccines will kill you...they will set you up for the next strain.

[Garcia Bronco]

Your choice was better why?
Dumb, but you do have a problem in reading comprehension at times so to be expected I guess. And who are these "we" people you refer to?
Like I pointed out, your Nostradamus skills suck.

You know exactly what I mean. So don't play this game.

[frerottenextelway]

Dow breaks 9,000 on economic recovery news (mostly earnings and housing numbers), the highest close since 2008. So awesome, 4 months ago it was at 6,500. Anyone in or near retirement who was invested has to feel one big sense of relief. That has to disappoint many.

[Garcia Bronco]

Dow breaks 9,000 on economic recovery news (mostly earnings and housing numbers), the highest close since 2008. So awesome, 4 months ago it was at 6,500. Anyone in or near retirement who was invested has to feel one big sense of relief. That has to disappoint many.

Crazy talk. I think many would be happy, but in the end all we did was print money and risk the financial stability of future generations.

[frerottenextelway]

Crazy talk. I think many would be happy, but in the end all we did was print money and risk the financial stability of future generations.

Crazy talk?

Housing, Earnings Lift Dow Above 9,000 (http://www.forbes.com/2009/07/23/briefing-americas-closer-markets-equities-3m.html)
Peter C. Beller, 07.23.09, 04:23 PM EDT

The Dow hit its highest level since January on Thursday as better than expected home sales data and more upbeat corporate earnings reports pushed stocks up more than 2%. The three major indexes rose steadily in the morning and held on to gains through the close of trading. Sparking the rally, existing home sales climbed in June for the third straight month while blue chip firms like 3M and AT&T posted strong financial results for the second quarter.

As for the dollar, that bubble needs to burst, the sooner the better. The dollar is extremely over inflated right now as everyone took their money out of elsewhere and invested in the U.S. Dollar during the world collapse. Hopefully as the world economies improve, money flows out of it, and it gets back to a normal level.

[Garcia Bronco]

Crazy talk?



As for the dollar, that bubble needs to burst, the sooner the better. The dollar is extremely over inflated right now as everyone took their money out of elsewhere and invested in the U.S. Dollar during the world collapse. Hopefully as the world economies improve, money flows out of it, and it gets back to a normal level.

Your "disapoints many" comment

[frerottenextelway]

Your "disapoints many" comment

There are those that have given much more coverage of the Jan - March stock market crash than coverage (or even acknowledgment for that matter)of the March - Present stock market rally. It doesn't take a big leap in logic that many of them routinely put politics ahead of country (And you know me, I love politics, but there is a line when it comes to routing against my country). There are very real people that are in or near retirement that will have the remainder of their lives changed for the better because of this.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You know exactly what I mean. So don't play this game.I usually don't "know exactly what you mean" as your comments can be sexually biased and racial.

And I don't play games with people who view the world and people as you do.

[alkemical]

LOL--if any of us who actually post complaints in this forum ever vote again for a Repub or a Dem--we should lose our OM access...BOTH parties are corrupt beyond repair.........

It really shows, who helps actually run the country....

[cutthemdown]

One reason I think Obama needs to do it fast is the adjustment period people will go through. If Healthcare Reform doesn't kick in unil say late 2010, then people could be going through the growing pains of it into the next election.

Last thing you want is turmoil coming in on 2011-12. Many people may lose there private insurance and find under Obamas plan they no longer have same choices for doctors.

I think the sooner he gets it done, the sooner people adjust to new plan, the sooner the new plan looks like it works, makes Obama happy.

You drag this stuff out and he could find himself explaining why things aren't that great yet, but they will get better, when he should be campaining.

What you don't want is unhappy people because they lost inurance they liked at the same time you want them to vote for you.

[cutthemdown]

There are those that have given much more coverage of the Jan - March stock market crash than coverage (or even acknowledgment for that matter)of the March - Present stock market rally. It doesn't take a big leap in logic that many of them routinely put politics ahead of country (And you know me, I love politics, but there is a line when it comes to routing against my country). There are very real people that are in or near retirement that will have the remainder of their lives changed for the better because of this.

Not just them I bought a dow based mutual fund before the election and now I am finally in the black on it. Like I said back then it's always a good time to invest if you do it wisely. Which is spread it out, don't invest what you need to live on, and do a lot of research, ask people who have money.

People would be surprised just what wealth of information people with more money then you can give you. They can tell you about tax pitfalls they have seen, trends they have witnessed, how to act when investments go good or bad etc etc.

For sure though anyone who only talks about the bad is a bummer. Anyone who hopes for things to go bad is a bad American, period.

Still though from you sort of funny because you talked about Iraq and any dead troops a lot more when it was Bush in office.

Not like all the people who were doing that put up articles about how well the surge went. Hell no they put up articles about how the surge wasn't really that great, how it would all fall apart at some point etc etc.

So get over it you are one of the most partisan people on the board. A true liberal who probably never takes strays from the party line.

[frerottenextelway]

One reason I think Obama needs to do it fast is the adjustment period people will go through. If Healthcare Reform doesn't kick in unil say late 2010, then people could be going through the growing pains of it into the next election.

Last thing you want is turmoil coming in on 2011-12. Many people may lose there private insurance and find under Obamas plan they no longer have same choices for doctors.

I think the sooner he gets it done, the sooner people adjust to new plan, the sooner the new plan looks like it works, makes Obama happy.

You drag this stuff out and he could find himself explaining why things aren't that great yet, but they will get better, when he should be campaining.

What you don't want is unhappy people because they lost inurance they liked at the same time you want them to vote for you.

The major changes won't come into full effect until 2013. This is one of the reasons ''moderates'' are dragging their feet. They would have to explain something on the campaign that people can't see working. Of course, doing what they feel is the right thing should be more important than doing the easy thing, but this is the state of American politics.

[frerottenextelway]

Not just them I bought a dow based mutual fund before the election and now I am finally in the black on it. Like I said back then it's always a good time to invest if you do it wisely. Which is spread it out, don't invest what you need to live on, and do a lot of research, ask people who have money.

People would be surprised just what wealth of information people with more money then you can give you. They can tell you about tax pitfalls they have seen, trends they have witnessed, how to act when investments go good or bad etc etc.

For sure though anyone who only talks about the bad is a bummer. Anyone who hopes for things to go bad is a bad American, period.

Still though from you sort of funny because you talked about Iraq and any dead troops a lot more when it was Bush in office.

Not like all the people who were doing that put up articles about how well the surge went. Hell no they put up articles about how the surge wasn't really that great, how it would all fall apart at some point etc etc.

So get over it you are one of the most partisan people on the board. A true liberal who probably never takes strays from the party line.

I posted an Iraq thread not too long ago (June 29th to be exact). When is your last Iraq thread? So enjoy your crow. And it's simply untrue that I posted a lot about the dead soldiers in Iraq when Bush was President as I was largely not posting here then. So please, let facts be your friend in the future.

And I think saying the ''surge'' worked is a stretch. Our strategy worked, largely aided by the ethnic cleansing that already took place, but it wasn't a ''surge'' as was described laymen terms to the public.

What worked was paying off the ''enemy'', not so much a surge of troops. The people that were shooting and killing Americans were given cash to stop doing that. Which was a good strategy, and a strategy that was originally rejected around 2005, but none-the-less, it was a good strategy even if it was (and had to be) sold as something else to the public.

[cutthemdown]

see

[cutthemdown]

I stopped posting on Iraq because we won. The pullout has begun, Iraqi army taking over, if it heated up again and there were big issues for our govt I would for sure be interested.

It's obvious the President more interested in domestic things so of course the threads have went that way.

Still though most people on the board wanted us to pull out way before surge, that would have been a disaster and everyone knows it now.

The war was winnable because in war the winning is always subjective. Had we left with tails between legs= a loss. But getting country more stable, leaving with Iraqi military strong = win.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Obama thought he could get all of this ill-advised crap through congress while the American people sat idly by content to look up at Obama's mug prematurely chiseled into Mount Rushmore.

Our president is an amateur.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Obama thought he could get all of this ill-advised crap through congress while the American people sat idly by content to look up at Obama's mug prematurely chiseled into Mount Rushmore.

Our president is an amateur.
LOL

Geeeezus! I love watching the hypocritical religious right and right wingers squirm over Obama.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I stopped posting on Iraq because we won. Yeah right, exactly what did we "win"?

[frerottenextelway]

I stopped posting on Iraq because we won. The pullout has begun, Iraqi army taking over, if it heated up again and there were big issues for our govt I would for sure be interested.

It's obvious the President more interested in domestic things so of course the threads have went that way.

Still though most people on the board wanted us to pull out way before surge, that would have been a disaster and everyone knows it now.

The war was winnable because in war the winning is always subjective. Had we left with tails between legs= a loss. But getting country more stable, leaving with Iraqi military strong = win.

So, you're not going to address the lie you were caught in?

[Odysseus]

I have noticed the obots are getting quieter by the , and I have never heard or seen so much buyers remorse.

There is a thin line between buyers remorse and saying the same things over and over again. The animosity that is just on this board is childishness compared to the animosity that Obama deals with on a daily basis. Why can't he get things done? It's like this board. Why can't we ever stay on topic? Why can't we stay on point? Why can't we get things done? What part of global economic meltdown are we missing here?

The division in this country is deep, wide and very certain. Clinton created the antipathy. Bush exaggerated that division. This is part three of that same partisan politics game. Until we fix congress the President is screwed no matter who he is.

No matter what Obama does McCain/Palin would have been a disaster. Ron Paul is dead. He was not nominated. He is not going to be nominated. The liberatarians are not getting anyone elected in congress. When are we getting down to the issue of fixing congress. Never. All we are going to do is whine about Obama or defend him. I don't have time to waste like that.

[Odysseus]

Yeah right, exactly what did we "win"?

1. Entrenchment of the Industrial Military Complex.
2. Testing ground for the 3rd generation war fighter
3. Unifying our enemies / Realigned our alliances
4. The basis for Africom / Reduction of European footprint
5. Converting National Guard into fulltime soldiers expanding the military footprint and tactics in police operations.
6. Expanding ability to contract literally anything
7. Expanded military benefits for veterans and pay increases
8. Lowered military standards further eroding the NCO corps
9. Massive accounting fraud where nobody is at fault.
10. Creation of a dysfunctional country unable to stand on it's own.

Ultimately the war in Afghanistan is going to collapse the American economy because the ability to sustain this is going to fail. Conservatives will be back in vogue because as a nation of whiners we always follow the next new thing. Obama will have many of his objectives fall to a president who is viewed as more moderate when times are not so divisive and that president will take credit for ideas iniated now. It is the same as it always has been. We will use blame to replace reason and attach certainty to what we think we know the next time around.

[Meck77]

Ultimately the war in Afghanistan is going to collapse the American economy because the ability to sustain this is going to fail.

But the latest flurry of the Holy War began the moment Sadam launched scuds at Israel. We've been laying out cash and blood protecting them since.

9-11 was a response to our occupation of the holy land.

From Bin Laden's declaration of war in 1996. That's 1996 people!

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html

"Today your brothers and sons, the sons of the two Holy Places, have started their Jihad in the cause of Allah, to expel the occupying enemy from of the country of the two Holy places."

As you said in your earlier post though Qtiger Americans are more concerned with which president to blame. The reality is I don' think any American president has the guts to free our country from the holy war of the middle east that is dragging our country down.

The final chapter might just be a war with Iran or whatever Holy War America finds herself involved with.

Trillions of dollars and thousands of lives lost for land that 99.9% of American citizens will never set foot on.

This last election people voted for "change". I'll let you guys decide if you got the change you wanted.

[footstepsfrom#27]

1. Entrenchment of the Industrial Military Complex.
2. Testing ground for the 3rd generation war fighter
3. Unifying our enemies / Realigned our alliances
4. The basis for Africom / Reduction of European footprint
5. Converting National Guard into fulltime soldiers expanding the military footprint and tactics in police operations.
6. Expanding ability to contract literally anything
7. Expanded military benefits for veterans and pay increases
8. Lowered military standards further eroding the NCO corps
9. Massive accounting fraud where nobody is at fault.
10. Creation of a dysfunctional country unable to stand on it's own.
Don't forget the increasing willingness to accept our government violating rights of privacy and civil liberties in exchange for our "freedom" through big brother tapping our phones, reading our emails and peeping into our houses.

[Rohirrim]

Don't forget the increasing willingness to accept our government violating rights of privacy and civil liberties in exchange for our "freedom" through big brother tapping our phones, reading our emails and peeping into our houses.

This is one of the reasons I started this thread. I think we can start to see the danger in allowing one president to pass these kinds of laws and then assume the next president will dismantle them. As we have seen with Obama, that's not true. He is extending many of them. What happens to these kinds of laws is that, once they are allowed on the books, they get layers added to them.

But what really pisses me off about Obama is his failure to enforce and prosecute the law in the name of political expediency. And that does not just apply to the criminal Bush/Cheney cabal. What we have seen over the last decade is a bunch of out-and-out pirates take over Wall Street while buying up government influence, and now the Obama government is paying (basically) "protection" money to them that they are using to post multi-billion dollar profits and give out millions in bonuses to themselves and their cronies. We've just witnessed the greatest robbery in U.S. history and Obama isn't even opening up an investigation. In fact, for all intents and purposes, to me he is starting to look like the Great Enabler. Where are the ****ing perp walks?

I was hoping we were getting another Teddy Roosevelt when I voted for Obama. Seems what we are getting is another Woodrow Wilson; All brains, no guts.

[Bronco Bob]

Well it appears Obama is rolling back some of the efforts to clean this country up. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124813721196067083.html

A bill "for a path to legal immigration" aka Amnesty will be on the way.

I'm sure the minute Obama was voted into office thousands of illegals packed their bags and headed north to get a piece of the welfare state. Move over Mr. Jones an illegal needs to get in front of you in the soup line now.

Actually the number of illegal immigrants entering the US has been decreasing.

[alkemical]

1. Entrenchment of the Industrial Military Complex.
2. Testing ground for the 3rd generation war fighter
3. Unifying our enemies / Realigned our alliances
4. The basis for Africom / Reduction of European footprint
5. Converting National Guard into fulltime soldiers expanding the military footprint and tactics in police operations.
6. Expanding ability to contract literally anything
7. Expanded military benefits for veterans and pay increases
8. Lowered military standards further eroding the NCO corps
9. Massive accounting fraud where nobody is at fault.
10. Creation of a dysfunctional country unable to stand on it's own.

Ultimately the war in Afghanistan is going to collapse the American economy because the ability to sustain this is going to fail. Conservatives will be back in vogue because as a nation of whiners we always follow the next new thing. Obama will have many of his objectives fall to a president who is viewed as more moderate when times are not so divisive and that president will take credit for ideas iniated now. It is the same as it always has been. We will use blame to replace reason and attach certainty to what we think we know the next time around.



One of the best posts.... If i remember correctly - the afg situation also killed the soviets....

[Meck77]

Actually the number of illegal immigrants entering the US has been decreasing.

Sure bob. And how many babies are born to the 12 million or so illegals on a daily basis? Yeah I know those are "legal".

[Rohirrim]

Somebody else picked up on the "Obama as enabler" concept:

If the financial crisis has proven anything, it is that capital markets have become an insiders' game in which trading profits crowd out the legitimate business of investment. The whole business-models of the most lucrative firms on Wall Street are a menace to the rest of the economy. Until the Obama administration recognizes this most basic abuse and shuts it down, it will be more enabler than reformer.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kuttner/wall-street-on-speed_b_245121.html

Of course, the massive danger we face is contained within this article. Wall Street and the banks are more and more venturing into a world where the only profit being made is from churning trades, charging fees and counting pennies, as he details in this article. The danger comes when we start looking at the profit these pirates are scooping off the top of the American economy and thinking that things are improving. They are not. Unemployment continues to rise. That is the figure to watch. Goldman Sachs raking in more profit is a false barometer of the economy because they are in effect simply vultures, not producers of wealth. They are making billions, but not from legitimate investments. This is where Obama is failing miserably. Until he is willing to take on the challenge of regulating the out of control greed on Wall Street he is merely, like the famous Dutch boy, sticking his finger in the dike while believing it will stop the dam from breaking. These greedy bastards almost sank us. And Obama is doing nothing to stop them from doing it again.

[Garcia Bronco]

There is a thin line between buyers remorse and saying the same things over and over again. The animosity that is just on this board is childishness compared to the animosity that Obama deals with on a daily basis. Why can't he get things done? It's like this board. Why can't we ever stay on topic? Why can't we stay on point? Why can't we get things done? What part of global economic meltdown are we missing here?

The division in this country is deep, wide and very certain. Clinton created the antipathy. Bush exaggerated that division. This is part three of that same partisan politics game. Until we fix congress the President is screwed no matter who he is.

No matter what Obama does McCain/Palin would have been a disaster. Ron Paul is dead. He was not nominated. He is not going to be nominated. The liberatarians are not getting anyone elected in congress. When are we getting down to the issue of fixing congress. Never. All we are going to do is whine about Obama or defend him. I don't have time to waste like that.

Obama has gotten plenty done and I think many more agree with his agenda, but Congress has it's place. Personally I like some grid lock in my Government. It keeps us from moving too fast. I think everyone of us is interested in healthcare reform and insurance reform, we just have different ways of going about it. Obama and a great deal of Congressmen want complete Government control over health care...it's a money grab and a power grab even with the best of intentions. If we givve government more control over our lives the more they become a dictatorship.

[alkemical]

Obama has gotten plenty done and I think many more agree with his agenda, but Congress has it's place. Personally I like some grid lock in my Government. It keeps us from moving too fast. I think everyone of us is interested in healthcare reform and insurance reform, we just have different ways of going about it. Obama and a great deal of Congressmen want complete Government control over health care...it's a money grab and a power grab even with the best of intentions. If we givve government more control over our lives the more they become a dictatorship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celine%27s_laws

An honest politician is a national calamity.

Celine recognizes that the third law seems preposterous from the beginning. While a dishonest politician is interested only in bettering his own lot through abusing the public trust, an honest politician is far more dangerous since he is honestly interested in bettering society through political action, and that means writing and implementing more and more laws.

Celine argues that creating more laws simply creates more criminals. Laws inherently restrict individual freedom, and the explosive rate at which laws are being created means that every citizen in the course of his daily life does not have the research capacity to not violate at least one of the plethora of laws. It is only through honest politicians trying to change the world through laws that true tyranny can come into being through excessive legislation.

Corrupt politicians simply line their own pockets. Honest idealist politicians cripple the people's freedom through enormous amounts of laws. So corrupt politicians are preferable according to Celine.

[Rohirrim]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celine%27s_laws

An honest politician is a national calamity.

Celine recognizes that the third law seems preposterous from the beginning. While a dishonest politician is interested only in bettering his own lot through abusing the public trust, an honest politician is far more dangerous since he is honestly interested in bettering society through political action, and that means writing and implementing more and more laws.

Celine argues that creating more laws simply creates more criminals. Laws inherently restrict individual freedom, and the explosive rate at which laws are being created means that every citizen in the course of his daily life does not have the research capacity to not violate at least one of the plethora of laws. It is only through honest politicians trying to change the world through laws that true tyranny can come into being through excessive legislation.

Corrupt politicians simply line their own pockets. Honest idealist politicians cripple the people's freedom through enormous amounts of laws. So corrupt politicians are preferable according to Celine.

Sophistry. There are people who are constantly trying to get around the law. Legislators always get their work thrown back in their faces. Those who dismantled Glass-Steagall thought that this new business freedom would lead to new prosperities. And it did, for a while, for a few. Now we see why those regulations were installed in the first place. Those who are committed to their society see the need for laws and act responsibly. I suppose laws are for all the rest who only care about themselves and see the law merely as an obstruction to them gaining what they want, regardless of the effect of their greed on the greater society. We are always on the swing, crossing back and forth over the balance point. The just man needs no laws, while for the un-just man, there are never enough.

[alkemical]

Sophistry. There are people who are constantly trying to get around the law. Legislators always get their work thrown back in their faces. Those who dismantled Glass-Steagall thought that this new business freedom would lead to new prosperities. And it did, for a while, for a few. Now we see why those regulations were installed in the first place. Those who are committed to their society see the need for laws and act responsibly. I suppose laws are for all the rest who only care about themselves and see the law merely as an obstruction to them gaining what they want, regardless of the effect of their greed on the greater society. We are always on the swing, crossing back and forth over the balance point. The just man needs no laws, while for the un-just man, there are never enough.

as for current human nature - i dont' disagree with celine's 3rd law. That whole "road to hell is paved with the best of intentions" bit.

It's not an end all, be all - but it makes a very valid statement.

[Odysseus]

Don't forget the increasing willingness to accept our government violating rights of privacy and civil liberties in exchange for our "freedom" through big brother tapping our phones, reading our emails and peeping into our houses.

There is always a rationale for more control. Privacy does not exist and until the American people are clear on that they won't realize what really happened right under their watch.

One of the things we lost in our lifetimes was a "free press". If our news is tainted how well do we really know the truth about "the truth." People quote articles in here all the time but I used to work for a newspaper. I can see clearly what they are not saying and it's pretty discouraging.

We ALL have become sheep. We don't have the mechanisms in place to call out the hidden hands in government. We don't have the basic common sense to ask why someone would spend nearly a billion dollars to tell us lies. We don't look at the plain truth about anything. I am not talking about starting a Freedom Farce or anything new. All we need to is make what we have work for all of us today but we really don't care about all of us. We care ourselves and that is how they trick us.

Psst. Do you see that guy picking beans in the field that is making $5 an hour? Yeah that guy. He is going to steal your high paying technical job, your health care and destroy our ability to compete overseas by lowering the cost of doing business here. How do you feel about that guy! That guy sucks doesn't he! Here! Where this lapel pin with a flag on it. Anybody that does not have one of these on is a dirty communist traitor! GO OUR GUYS! WOOO!!

We are all sheep asleep in the system.

[alkemical]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/05/white-house-draws-requesting-fishy-information-supporters-health-reform/

The White House is under fire for a blog post asking supporters to send "fishy" information received through rumors, chain e-mails and casual conversations to a White House e-mail address, flag@whitehouse.gov.

Conservatives have pounced on the request, accusing the White House of acting Orwellian.

"If you get an e-mail from your neighbor and it doesn't sound right, send it to the White House?"said Sen. John Barasso, R-Wyo. " People, I think all across America are going to say is this 1984? What is happening here? Is big brother watching?"

Radio host Rush Limbaugh accused the White House of using heavy-handed tactics.

"They're looking for tattletales,"he said. "They're looking for snitches. They're looking for informants."

Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, charged the White House with compiling an "enemies list."In a letter to the president, Cornyn urged Obama to provide Congress with more details on what the White House plans to do with anyone reported for "fishy"speech.

[TailgateNut]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/05/white-house-draws-requesting-fishy-information-supporters-health-reform/



Radio host Rush Limbaugh accused the White House of using heavy-handed tactics.

"They're looking for tattletales,"he said. "They're looking for snitches. They're looking for informants."

.

BUT this type of behavior was encouraged under the Dumbya administration.

Report any suspicious "un patriotic behavior" to authorities under the guise of "fighting terrorism".

Didn't hear the "drug addict" bitch then, did we?

[hookemhess]

What is Obama's plan to fix this problem?

A "path to citizenship."

[Rohirrim]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/08/05/white-house-draws-requesting-fishy-information-supporters-health-reform/

The White House is under fire for a blog post asking supporters to send "fishy" information received through rumors, chain e-mails and casual conversations to a White House e-mail address, flag@whitehouse.gov.

Conservatives have pounced on the request, accusing the White House of acting Orwellian.

"If you get an e-mail from your neighbor and it doesn't sound right, send it to the White House?"said Sen. John Barasso, R-Wyo. " People, I think all across America are going to say is this 1984? What is happening here? Is big brother watching?"

Radio host Rush Limbaugh accused the White House of using heavy-handed tactics.

"They're looking for tattletales,"he said. "They're looking for snitches. They're looking for informants."

Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, charged the White House with compiling an "enemies list."In a letter to the president, Cornyn urged Obama to provide Congress with more details on what the White House plans to do with anyone reported for "fishy"speech.

Sounds like the rightards are upset that Obama is proactively preparing for the next Swift Boat attack. They preferred Kerry, who didn't respond to their dishonest slime until it was too late.

[TailgateNut]

Sounds like the rightards are upset that Obama is proactively preparing for the next Swift Boat attack. They preferred Kerry, who didn't respond to their dishonest slime until it was too late.

He's just preparing to deflate the wheels of the GOP disinformation wagon.:thumbs:

[Rohirrim]

John Cornyn Suddenly Concerned About Privacy
by BarbinMD
Share this on Twitter - John Cornyn Suddenly Concerned About Privacy Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 06:26:04 PM PDT
This is really rich:

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.) is worried that the White House will use a new media outreach program to collect the personal data of its political opponents.

Yesterday, the White House asked supporters to forward "fishy" claims or rumors about the President's healthcare plan to a White House email address as a way to respond to "disinformation."

Cornyn says this practice would let the White House collect personal information about people who oppose the President. [...]

"I am not aware of any precedent for a President asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure speech that is deemed 'fishy' or otherwise inimical to the White House's political interests," Cornyn said.

This from the guy who cheered for warrantless, domestic spying against American citizens by the National Security Agency? Now he's upset? Because the White House is asking people to let them know when they're being bombarded with claims that Democrats want to kill senior citizens and all of the other "pure speech" the Republicans are spewing about health care reform? Comedy.
(from the Daily Kos)

[TailgateNut]

John Cornyn Suddenly Concerned About Privacy
by BarbinMD
Share this on Twitter - John Cornyn Suddenly Concerned About Privacy Wed Aug 05, 2009 at 06:26:04 PM PDT
This is really rich:

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.) is worried that the White House will use a new media outreach program to collect the personal data of its political opponents.

Yesterday, the White House asked supporters to forward "fishy" claims or rumors about the President's healthcare plan to a White House email address as a way to respond to "disinformation."

Cornyn says this practice would let the White House collect personal information about people who oppose the President. [...]


"I am not aware of any precedent for a President asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure speech that is deemed 'fishy' or otherwise inimical to the White House's political interests," Cornyn said.

This from the guy who cheered for warrantless, domestic spying against American citizens by the National Security Agency? Now he's upset? Because the White House is asking people to let them know when they're being bombarded with claims that Democrats want to kill senior citizens and all of the other "pure speech" the Republicans are spewing about health care reform? Comedy.
(from the Daily Kos)

The hypocrites contiue their ongoing "good for the goose, but not good for the gander" spiel.