Some Good Ideas

[Rohirrim]

In addition, the financial sector has not yet returned to health, despite outsized profits (and bonuses) reported by the likes of Goldman Sachs. This is the kind of purely financial engineering that caused the collapse. The fevered activity at Goldman is a sign of lingering economic illness, not economic health. The rest of the economy, which depends on the financial sector for real investment capital, is still deeply depressed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-kuttner/smoking-the-green-shoots_b_240395.html
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What, then, is the moral equivalent of war for the 21st century? Let's think way, way outside the box.

We might begin with a serious strategy for rebuilding American manufacturing. American corporations and politicians have been cavalier about just letting manufacturing go. Uniquely among advanced and developing nations, we have no national strategy for nurturing manufacturing at home. There's even an office in the Commerce Department that helps companies outsource.

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The administration is confused about how to reconcile industrial goals with trade law. It had to do a lot of backing and filling so that tens of billions of taxpayer dollars to modernize the auto industry didn't end up subsidizing more outsourcing of jobs to China. If trade law interferes with our ability to revive American manufacturing, then there's something wrong with trade law and let's change it.

That last sentence is crucial. We engineer our trade policy to benefit special interests who make profit abroad and spend some of that profit buying politicians here at home. Time to weed out the corruption and start implementing policies that strengthen our country, not just a select few corporate oligarchs.

[Meck77]

Those that manipulated our markets need it to recover in order to pillage it again. The trend is your friend. Be aware of it. Ride it. The tricky part is getting your money off the table before they do.

[gyldenlove]

It is interesting, when Adam Smith wrote the Wealth of Nations the economy was a product of trade and production, now trade and production have become products of the economy.

Somewhere along the way the economy stopped being a reflection of decisions and trends and instead started making decisions and setting trends.

The bankers and traders of the world will control power until someone realizes that they do not matter. They don't produce anything, nobody would starve or be without health care or electricity even if every single banker disappeared overnight. But imagine if every farmer, power plant worker and nurses and doctors disappeared overnight.

[BroncoBuff]

The Bush Depression really sucks ... I'm sick of it.

You can't really blame the Wall Street people for chasing profits, that's just human nature. We SHOULD blame the limp-wristed Bush SEC for turning a blind eye.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The true story of what we have to do to return this economy to being competitive is not talked about in the press. It's got a lot to do with rebuilding our entire philosophy of capitalism, global markets and how we educate and train people. It will take 20 years or more.

[Meck77]

Obamas programs are failing miserably. I know several small business owners who are having a hard time finding good employees RIGHT NOW! Imagine that. Right now we have people trying not to work and earn money so they can get loan modifications on their ****ing houses. It's ass backwards. Some recovery plan.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Obamas programs are failing miserably. I know several small business owners who are having a hard time finding good employees RIGHT NOW! Imagine that. Right now we have people trying not to work and earn money so they can get loan modifications on their ****ing houses. It's ass backwards. Some recovery plan.
So you would do...what?

[Rohirrim]

Obamas programs are failing miserably. I know several small business owners who are having a hard time finding good employees RIGHT NOW! Imagine that. Right now we have people trying not to work and earn money so they can get loan modifications on their ****ing houses. It's ass backwards. Some recovery plan.

I don't know how anybody could make that determination yet. Way too early. It's like grabbing the wheel of a supertanker and throwing it hard over and then complaining when the ship doesn't move. It takes a while.

[Meck77]

So you would do...what?

I would have started by rewarding people who paid their bills on time and given them a break FIRST. The way I see it a credit report is an adults report card in life. When you got a A in school it's because you paid attention and scored well on tests. When you didn't do the right thing you got D or an F. That forced your parents to kick you in the ass to straighten you up. Whether someone is rich or poor a person can maintain excellent credit and the banks will reward you accordingly.

Obama has created a disincentive for people to pay their damn bills or even find work for crying out loud. It's completely ass backwards but hey American voted for a welfare state and that is what we are getting.

I recently put an ad in the paper for a house cleaner at $15.00/hr. I had one call from someone who couldn't even speak English. Other business owners I know are going thru the same thing like I mentioned before. There are people on the streets refusing to find work because they are waiting for the Obama administration to cut them a break. It's flat out ****ed up.

Ro- You are right. Obama is miraculously going to find a way to pay back trillions of dollars being pissed away. I'll wait a few more years and let the die hard dems complain for me. They are the ones who are going to get more angry than me when they go to register their cars, pay for speeding tickets, pay their property taxes, pay higher taxes on cigarettes, beer, gas etc in the future. Oh but Obama won't raise taxes on the middle class. Fools.

Bottom line is people are naive enough to think Obama won't raise their taxes. What they fail to realize is that your local cities and states are doing it at record pace because wall street isn't buying into the Obama economy. People are still scared to spend money and buy goods and services and cities are going broke. As a result services are being cut and your FEES aka TAXES are going up everyday.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I would have started by rewarding people who paid their bills on time and given them a break FIRST. The way I see it a credit report is an adults report card in life. When you got a A in school it's because you paid attention and scored well on tests. When you didn't do the right thing you got D or an F. That forced your parents to kick you in the ass to straighten you up. Whether someone is rich or poor a person can maintain excellent credit and the banks will reward you accordingly.

Obama has created a disincentive for people to pay their damn bills or even find work for crying out loud. It's completely ass backwards but hey American voted for a welfare state and that is what we are getting.

I recently put an ad in the paper for a house cleaner at $15.00/hr. I had one call from someone who couldn't even speak English. Other business owners I know are going thru the same thing like I mentioned before. There are people on the streets refusing to find work because they are waiting for the Obama administration to cut them a break. It's flat out ****ed up.

Ro- You are right. Obama is miraculously going to find a way to pay back trillions of dollars being pissed away. I'll wait a few more years and let the die hard dems complain for me. They are the ones who are going to get more angry than me when they go to register their cars, pay for speeding tickets, pay their property taxes, pay higher taxes on cigarettes, beer, gas etc in the future. Oh but Obama won't raise taxes on the middle class. Fools.

Bottom line is people are naive enough to think Obama won't raise their taxes. What they fail to realize is that your local cities and states are doing it at record pace because wall street isn't buying into the Obama economy. People are still scared to spend money and buy goods and services and cities are going broke. As a result services are being cut and your FEES aka TAXES are going up everyday.
Thanks for the right wing diatribe. Now answer my original question...what would YOU do to fix the total **** up we got from the Bushies? You said "reward people with good credit". Great...banks have done so for years...so does every aspect of corporate America from car dealers to apartment complexes to employers looking to hire. I could dispute some of your theories on good credit but setting that aside...I just want to know what YOU would do to fix this economy. You're saying this approach is all wrong, so you apparently must have something in mind more than the single point you raised.

Incidentally...I work with business people and consult with some larger companies. I have encountered NOBODY who is telling me they're having trouble hiring people because nobody wants to work now, and NOBODY I come into contact with in the small business community has told me that they're finding people are wanting to "wait for Obama to help them." I think that's utter bunk.

Now...other than your single idea on credit reports...tell me EXACTLY what you would do to jump start the economy and fix the mess Bush left us in after 8 years of ignorance and stupidity...no more rhetoric...specifics.

[BroncoBuff]

Obamas programs are failing miserably. I know several small business owners who are having a hard time finding good employees RIGHT NOW! Imagine that. Right now we have people trying not to work and earn money so they can get loan modifications on their ****ing houses. It's ass backwards. Some recovery plan.

Way too soon to gauge the recovery plan yet ... I'm surprised you think so. He's been in office just 6 months today, meaning the plan's been in place just 4-5 months, tops.

No, the Bush Depression was long in the making and still hadn't bottomed out yet when Obama took office. Give it until January 2010

[That One Guy]

So if Obama fails to get the healthcare bill that he wants with the perfect congress, can we finally agree that the president does not have absolute control over congress? Apparently everyone wants to blame Bush when the economy began to tank once the Dems had already won back control of congress. Congress is there partially as a check on the pres.

[footstepsfrom#27]

So if Obama fails to get the healthcare bill that he wants with the perfect congress, can we finally agree that the president does not have absolute control over congress? Apparently everyone wants to blame Bush when the economy began to tank once the Dems had already won back control of congress. Congress is there partially as a check on the pres.
Are you seriously challenging the notion that Bush was the prime driver in removing government regulation from business the last 8 years? Really?

[Meck77]

Footsteps there is nothing I could say that would change your opinion but I'd start with auditing the criminals who run our federal reserve system. You wanted change but you elected more of the same.

You voted for change in the war on terror but we are getting more of the same. I'd immediately stop the funneling of billions of dollars to fight their holy war. You guys blame the war on Bush. I blame our blind allegiance and this notion that we have to protect Israel at all cost. What for? All it does is cost us billions upon billions and American blood. For what I ask?

As far as the bailouts went I would have let GM and the rest of the bums fail flat on their asses. There was and is money on the side that could have stepped in via a free market/bankruptcy process to rebuild them. The American people have been asking for fuel efficient/reliable cars for a long time yet they willingly ignored it. They didn't deserve a damn dime. That money would have been better spent on REAL stimulus programs. BTW where are they? The stimulus was supposed to build roads, bridges and highways. Not sure about your state but they have repainted a couple stretches of highways and jerked around with a couple other small deal. It's a ****ing joke.

Actually here is a quick and dirty way I'd fix this country. I'd toss Obama out of office and appoint Ron Paul president. That is my answer how to fix this economy because right now all Obama is doing is trying to spend our way out of this problem and it's not going to work and it's only delaying the bubble from bursting which is needs to do.

Ron has been preaching about this economic collapse for years. He was the only candidate who was honest with the people yet the big money lobbyists and special interest groups fooled you all into thinking RP was nuts. You bought. Maybe 4 years from now Americans will wake up and demand real change.

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Budget_+_Economy.htm

[watermock]

Footsteps there is nothing I could say that would change your opinion but I'd start with auditing the criminals who run our federal reserve system. You wanted change but you elected more of the same.



Jesus, when are we going to wake up that these elite don't bear allegiance to the USA!

Meanwhile, retirees have been buying fixed treasuries at 2% at record levels.

The great generation is dying off. We are now a debtor nation, just like the elite want.

And with them, the wealth.

At least Ron Paul can't be bought.

That doesn't mean he's an iconoclast.

[watermock]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=71&dateline=1244025980

*sigh*

[cutthemdown]

I'm just not convinced manufacturing jobs vital to a good economy. I do believe the big ticket items we would be wise to try and compete in better. But things like apparel, small electronic gadgets, I just don't think we can.

Solar and wind power technology I would think would be a big enough ticket item to be worth trying to dominate.

Specifically what industries do you feel would be the smart ones to target?

[Meck77]

Jesus, when are we going to wake up that these elite don't bear allegiance to the USA!


Mock it's easier for people to blame the puppet we put in as president.
Ron Paul has 250 members of congress supporting his Federal Reserve Audit bill.

It's just too bad most Americans don't even understand nor care what the Fed is up to.

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[footstepsfrom#27]

Footsteps there is nothing I could say that would change your opinion but I'd start with auditing the criminals who run our federal reserve system. You wanted change but you elected more of the same.

You voted for change in the war on terror but we are getting more of the same. I'd immediately stop the funneling of billions of dollars to fight their holy war. You guys blame the war on Bush. I blame our blind allegiance and this notion that we have to protect Israel at all cost. What for? All it does is cost us billions upon billions and American blood. For what I ask?

As far as the bailouts went I would have let GM and the rest of the bums fail flat on their asses. There was and is money on the side that could have stepped in via a free market/bankruptcy process to rebuild them. The American people have been asking for fuel efficient/reliable cars for a long time yet they willingly ignored it. They didn't deserve a damn dime. That money would have been better spent on REAL stimulus programs. BTW where are they? The stimulus was supposed to build roads, bridges and highways. Not sure about your state but they have repainted a couple stretches of highways and jerked around with a couple other small deal. It's a ****ing joke.

Actually here is a quick and dirty way I'd fix this country. I'd toss Obama out of office and appoint Ron Paul president. That is my answer how to fix this economy because right now all Obama is doing is trying to spend our way out of this problem and it's not going to work and it's only delaying the bubble from bursting which is needs to do.

Ron has been preaching about this economic collapse for years. He was the only candidate who was honest with the people yet the big money lobbyists and special interest groups fooled you all into thinking RP was nuts. You bought. Maybe 4 years from now Americans will wake up and demand real change.

http://www.ontheissues.org/TX/Ron_Paul_Budget_+_Economy.htm
So basically your solution amounts to this:

1) Arrest and prosecute people in the federal reserve.
2) Walk away from Iraq on the spot.
3) Allow all US corporations and banks to collapse on the basis of some “free market bankruptcy process” magically righting the ship.
4) Spending money on “real” stimulus programs (those favored by you, but you don’t state what they are).
5) Disavowing Israel as an ally.
6) Installing a racist nut case in place of Obama in a coup.

I think it’s obvious you can’t really answer my question. Your suggestions are ludicrous, illegal and poorly thought out. Nobody believes simply walking of Iraq on a dime is even possible, much less desirable and your suggestion that we do this is only an attempt to propagate the notion that the war is just as much Obama’s fault as it is Bush’s and is insanely stupid. US troops have already turned security in the cities over to Iraqi forces and will be leaving as soon as we can do so appropriately. Allowing the entire economy to collapse so we can punish the evil doers of Wall Street sounds great…it would also destroy this country. I notice you're attributing this to Obama...did you forget the Bush administration authored a $700 Billion banking bailout in October? I'd like to hear your opinion on this versus what Obama is trying to do. Specifically, I want you to tell me why one is better than the other if you believe it is.

Disavowing Israel…yes it’s Israel’s fault that we’re in this position…who wouldn't make that connection? I see why you want Ron Paul in charge. Maybe you and Gaffney can hook up and write a book together.

Let’s ignore the really stupid suggestions above and focus only on the semi-serious one you offered because this is really the only true basis of your complaint.

You say we should enact a “real stimulus”. What does that mean exactly…I want specifics here; what is your definition of a “real stimulus”? I suspect you’re clueless about how this thing works, especially since you think that major construction and infrastructure investments can be researched, planned, designed and deployed in 5 months.

Specifics now…on the stimulus; what does it look like in your version and exactly what would you do different? That's what I've been trying to get you to say, and you have ignored my question so far with this gibberish.

[Meck77]

It's obvious you been brainwashed by the media on RP.

Foot I recommend you take some time and listen to Ron Paul. You owe it to yourself and your family. I have some flies to tie for my fishing trip tomorrow. I'll get back to you later.

*edit* Buff, Schiff called the collapse along with Ron Paul. In fact Schiff was a Ron Paul supporter and if I'm not mistaken an economic advisor of his. Yup Ron was a nutcase. It's a good thing I listened and positioned my portfolio and assets according to those nutcases. :yayaya:

[BroncoBuff]

Can't hear the Ron Paul clip ... but I am hearing more and more that the Peter Schiff theory on Fed manipulation. Schiff was the one guy who was on the record over and over starting three years ago, prediciting exactly what happened to the economy ast year.

Specifically he theorizes they've been keeping interest rates artificially low ... which causes spending and drains savings. If interest rates floated naturally, the rates would be higher ... causing less buying and more saving, because interest rates for savings would be correspondingly higher too.

He agrees with Meck we shouldda let all the big troubled companies go under.



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[watermock]

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I was quoting Schiff 2 years ago.

[BroncoBuff]

It's obvious you been brainwashed by the media on RP.

Foot I recommend you take some time and listen to Ron Paul. You owe it to yourself and your family. I have some flies to tie for my fishing trip tomorrow. I'll get back to you later.

*edit* Buff, Schiff called the collapse along with Ron Paul. In fact Schiff was a Ron Paul supporter and if I'm not mistaken an economic advisor. Yup Ron was a nutcase. Good thing I positioned my portfolio based on those nutcases. :) :)

Okay yeah, your posts reminded me of Schiff's theories, that was where you seemed to be headed.

It's over my pay grade to fully understand this stuff, but these are very sensible theries. It's just free enterprise 101 to allow businesses and industries to rise and fall on their own merits.

[watermock]

Ron Paul stands on ending the fed and stopping wars geared to the elite for either wealth or depoulization.

[footstepsfrom#27]

It's obvious you been brainwashed by the media on RP.

Foot I recommend you take some time and listen to Ron Paul. You owe it to yourself and your family. I have some flies to tie for my fishing trip tomorrow. I'll get back to you later.
That's what I thought. You have no answers. While you're trying to figure out how to answer this, here's a question for you:

What's the total new taxation value of the Obama stimulus package vs. that of the banking bailout Bush pushed through in October?

As for Ron Paul...please...I live here, I know all about Ron Paul and his bizarre history of bigoted behavior here. You have ZERO chance of having this guy elected so why not come up with real answers OK?

[watermock]

Unfortnately, the worst is yet to come.

Paraguay sounds nice.

Bush country. Ha!

[watermock]

What's the total new taxation value of the Obama stimulus package vs. that of the banking bailout Bush pushed through in October?


Jesus.

Obama has brought in more NWO folks from wall street and war than anyone in memory.

Plain fact.

He's outdone Dub.

He's following orders. Both war and the fed.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Jesus.

Obama has brought in more NWO folks from wall street and war than anyone in memory.
Do you have an answer to the question?

[watermock]

Do you have an answer to the question?


Yiou mean this?

What's the total new taxation value of the Obama stimulus package vs. that of the banking bailout Bush pushed through in October?



Bush bailed out the banks.

Who knows where Obama's went.

Ya know, your allowed in a forum to answer your own question.

For your own good.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Yiou mean this?




Bush bailed out the banks.

Who knows where Obama's went.

Ya know, your allowed in a forum to answer your own question.

For your own good.
I'm looking for a specific dollar amount. What was the value of Bush's new taxation/spending in the banking bailout vs. that of Obama's stimulus package?