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View Full Version : McDaniels coming up on ESPN 1600am at 7:40am MT


montrose
07-13-2009, 07:27 AM
I'll post a recap, it's being simulcast at www.viclombardi.com

dbfan21
07-13-2009, 07:59 AM
strange...i was able to hear the radio guys, but not mcdaniels. how'd it go, montrose?

Rabb
07-13-2009, 08:02 AM
strange...i was able to hear the radio guys, but not mcdaniels. how'd it go, montrose?

samsies

montrose
07-13-2009, 08:05 AM
strange...i was able to hear the radio guys, but not mcdaniels. how'd it go, montrose?

They had some problems with their stream I guess. I'm typing out my notes from the interview, will post shortly.

Rabb
07-13-2009, 08:06 AM
I can't wait for all the negative pricks to roll in and dissect what he said and how it was wrong, and how he probably wasn't looking at the right thing or in the right direction during the phone call even though there is no evidence of it

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 08:06 AM
Are we sure this was McDaniels? Sure sounded like Kenny Peterson to me.

Rulon Velvet Jones
07-13-2009, 08:19 AM
Nice gig. Broadcasting from your own house. Dan Patrick does that.

Rulon Velvet Jones
07-13-2009, 08:22 AM
This is funny, being able to hear all their chatter during the breaks. Time to cuss!

montrose
07-13-2009, 08:23 AM
* McDaniels is currently on vacation at home but has still be going in and out of Dove Valley. The staff is off until next Wednesday. Has spent his vacation with his wife Laura and kids that just moved to Colorado from the east coast this week. Since McDaniels has taken the job, he's been working 18 hours a day so it was okay that his family wasn't here yet.

* The first seven months of the job were exciting. There are tough decisions to make as an NFL Head Coach. Loves how the locker room is coming together along with a great rookie class. The spring did well to set the tone for what the new Denver Broncos will be.

* The offense is fully installed heading into camp from OTA's. Training camp is all about full-speed hitting and contact as the Broncos will be a very physical football team. Players are always learning and adapting throughout camp but they know what to expect.

* Marshall has been sent his letter with a reporting date and weight as have the other 80 players on the team. Looking forward to having him in camp and making him a big part of the team. Been conversations with his agent, Xanders, Bowlen, Marshall and McDaniels - dialogue continues. McDaniels has a good relationship with Marshall.

* Players determine their roles, they don't want to force any square pegs into round holes. Competition for playing time all season long. Front seven and OL play is all about hitting and being physical at training camp.

* The staff felt comfortable that Orton was clearly the best QB, they had no time frame to name a starter. Simms did some good things too but Orton separated himself from the others. Simms will push Orton because things can always change. McDaniels is very excited about Orton in this offense with the other players.

* You absolutely do not have a record set in your head as the Denver Broncos will expect to win every game they take the field. The team's theme is do things one thing at a time. Can't compare this team to last year's because so much has changed with a new staff and roster. Look at Atlanta, Baltimore and Miami last season - if you don't turn the ball over - you can be successful in the NFL. This is a major theme for the team as they led the league in turnovers last season.

* Moreno will have a shot at starting as will Hillis, Buckhalter, Jordan and Torain once he returns from injury. The backfield is deep and talented. Roles haven't been set yet since there's been no hitting. McDaniels wants it to be difficult for players to win jobs. Moreno's done some good things but still makes rookie mistakes.

* CBS4 will host the Josh McDaniels show on Saturday's, hosted by Lombardi and Miller. They joked about the dress code, McDaniels said Lombardi and Miller can set the dress code but he's not wearing a suit and tie.

* After the interview Lombardi and Miller spoke about McDaniels' passion and how friendly he's been when they've met him. He's the most hands-on coach they've ever seen and this is the most excited the players have ever been at practice. The team has fully bought into McDaniels' message.

Rulon Velvet Jones
07-13-2009, 08:26 AM
"We just did a Taco Bell spot after a Domino's spot. Not sure if you want that".

GOLD!

Rabb
07-13-2009, 08:28 AM
Good stuff man, thank you

* The offense is fully installed heading into camp from OTA's. Training camp is all about full-speed hitting and contact as the Broncos will be a very physical football team. Players are always learning and adapting throughout camp but they know what to expect.

maybe it is just me but I love hearing this

Gcver2ver3
07-13-2009, 08:33 AM
* McDaniels is currently on vacation at home but has still be going in and out of Dove Valley. The staff is off until next Wednesday. Has spent his vacation with his wife Laura and kids that just moved to Colorado from the east coast this week. Since McDaniels has taken the job, he's been working 18 hours a day so it was okay that his family wasn't here yet.

* The first seven months of the job were exciting. There are tough decisions to make as an NFL Head Coach. Loves how the locker room is coming together along with a great rookie class. The spring did well to set the tone for what the new Denver Broncos will be.

* The offense is fully installed heading into camp from OTA's. Training camp is all about full-speed hitting and contact as the Broncos will be a very physical football team. Players are always learning and adapting throughout camp but they know what to expect.

* Marshall has been sent his letter with a reporting date and weight as have the other 80 players on the team. Looking forward to having him in camp and making him a big part of the team. Been conversations with his agent, Xanders, Bowlen, Marshall and McDaniels - dialogue continues. McDaniels has a good relationship with Marshall.

* Players determine their roles, they don't want to force any square pegs into round holes. Competition for playing time all season long. Front seven and OL play is all about hitting and being physical at training camp.

* The staff felt comfortable that Orton was clearly the best QB, they had no time frame to name a starter. Simms did some good things too but Orton separated himself from the others. Simms will push Orton because things can always change. McDaniels is very excited about Orton in this offense with the other players.

* You absolutely do not have a record set in your head as the Denver Broncos will expect to win every game they take the field. The team's theme is do things one thing at a time. Can't compare this team to last year's because so much has changed with a new staff and roster. Look at Atlanta, Baltimore and Miami last season - if you don't turn the ball over - you can be successful in the NFL. This is a major theme for the team as they led the league in turnovers last season.

* Moreno will have a shot at starting as will Hillis, Buckhalter, Jordan and Torain once he returns from injury. The backfield is deep and talented. Roles haven't been set yet since there's been no hitting. McDaniels wants it to be difficult for players to win jobs. Moreno's done some good things but still makes rookie mistakes.

* CBS4 will host the Josh McDaniels show on Saturday's, hosted by Lombardi and Miller. They joked about the dress code, McDaniels said Lombardi and Miller can set the dress code but he's not wearing a suit and tie.

* After the interview Lombardi and Miller spoke about McDaniels' passion and how friendly he's been when they've met him. He's the most hands-on coach they've ever seen and this is the most excited the players have ever been at practice. The team has fully bought into McDaniels' message.


thanks for the recap for those of us who were unable to listen in...

much appreciated...

oubronco
07-13-2009, 08:35 AM
Good stuff man, thank you



maybe it is just me but I love hearing this

as well as me it's about time we played physical and strong at the point of attack but do we have the players to do so?

NFLBRONCO
07-13-2009, 08:41 AM
* After the interview Lombardi and Miller spoke about McDaniels' passion and how friendly he's been when they've met him. He's the most hands-on coach they've ever seen and this is the most excited the players have ever been at practice. The team has fully bought into McDaniels' message.



I like the hands on teaching approach as well. I'd love a more physical smarter and play as a team Bronco team. Something I think we have lacked for years here.

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 08:42 AM
Of course, what are they going to say? We want to be a finesse team that shies away from contact, and that is what we've been focusing on during the minicamps?

TonyR
07-13-2009, 08:44 AM
He's the most hands-on coach they've ever seen...

I think this is a bigger factor than most realize. This is no shot at Shanahan because clearly he worked very hard as well but I guarantee you that a young, hungry guy like McD outworks most NFL coaches. There clearly is a burn out factor and age factor. Shanahan was rich and accomplished whereas McD isn't. He has a lot to prove and he'll tirelessly try to do so. There won't be any mailed in preparation or game planning.

NFLBRONCO
07-13-2009, 08:48 AM
I think this is a bigger factor than most realize. This is no shot at Shanahan because clearly he worked very hard as well but I guarantee you that a young, hungry guy like McD outworks most NFL coaches. There clearly is a burn out factor and age factor. Shanahan was rich and accomplished whereas McD isn't. He has a lot to prove and he'll tirelessly try to do so. There won't be any mailed in preparation or game planning.


This is definately one thing I like about MCD and must admit something I wish Shanny would have done more last several years.

DenverBrit
07-13-2009, 08:49 AM
thanks for the recap for those of us who were unable to listen in...

much appreciated...

+1 :thumbsup:

SoDak Bronco
07-13-2009, 08:57 AM
I think this is a bigger factor than most realize. This is no shot at Shanahan because clearly he worked very hard as well but I guarantee you that a young, hungry guy like McD outworks most NFL coaches. There clearly is a burn out factor and age factor. Shanahan was rich and accomplished whereas McD isn't. He has a lot to prove and he'll tirelessly try to do so. There won't be any mailed in preparation or game planning.

I don't think I've ever heard the Shanny was a guy that went home early, and was content with how things were going. But I do agree, we did need a change, and I think we will see a better overall product on the field in a year or 2.

Cito Pelon
07-13-2009, 08:59 AM
McD is a pretty confident guy. It was interesting to hear Lombardi and Miller who are vets of the Denver sport media comment that the players seem to be mightily enjoying being on the team. And it sounded like the staff wasn't making it all fun and games, so apparently this is a pretty good bunch of players, not afraid of a challenge, actually looking forward to the challenge.

The coach can make up anything he wants about the team attitude, but if a couple of veteran media guys make it a point to bring up how the team is very enthusiastic and energetic, that's actually meaningful.

dbfan21
07-13-2009, 09:04 AM
Thanks, Montrose! Good stuff. I am frothing at the mouth for TC to start.

rovolution
07-13-2009, 09:07 AM
force any square pegs into round holes.

the hallmark of Mike Shanahan defenses

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 09:11 AM
the hallmark of Mike Shanahan defenses

I think you mean Jim Bates.

tsiguy96
07-13-2009, 09:11 AM
hell yea, mcd has an awesome attitude.

broncofan2438
07-13-2009, 09:23 AM
* McDaniels is currently on vacation at home but has still be going in and out of Dove Valley. The staff is off until next Wednesday. Has spent his vacation with his wife Laura and kids that just moved to Colorado from the east coast this week. Since McDaniels has taken the job, he's been working 18 hours a day so it was okay that his family wasn't here yet.

* The first seven months of the job were exciting. There are tough decisions to make as an NFL Head Coach. Loves how the locker room is coming together along with a great rookie class. The spring did well to set the tone for what the new Denver Broncos will be.

* The offense is fully installed heading into camp from OTA's. Training camp is all about full-speed hitting and contact as the Broncos will be a very physical football team. Players are always learning and adapting throughout camp but they know what to expect.

* Marshall has been sent his letter with a reporting date and weight as have the other 80 players on the team. Looking forward to having him in camp and making him a big part of the team. Been conversations with his agent, Xanders, Bowlen, Marshall and McDaniels - dialogue continues. McDaniels has a good relationship with Marshall.

* Players determine their roles, they don't want to force any square pegs into round holes. Competition for playing time all season long. Front seven and OL play is all about hitting and being physical at training camp.

* The staff felt comfortable that Orton was clearly the best QB, they had no time frame to name a starter. Simms did some good things too but Orton separated himself from the others. Simms will push Orton because things can always change. McDaniels is very excited about Orton in this offense with the other players.

* You absolutely do not have a record set in your head as the Denver Broncos will expect to win every game they take the field. The team's theme is do things one thing at a time. Can't compare this team to last year's because so much has changed with a new staff and roster. Look at Atlanta, Baltimore and Miami last season - if you don't turn the ball over - you can be successful in the NFL. This is a major theme for the team as they led the league in turnovers last season.

* Moreno will have a shot at starting as will Hillis, Buckhalter, Jordan and Torain once he returns from injury. The backfield is deep and talented. Roles haven't been set yet since there's been no hitting. McDaniels wants it to be difficult for players to win jobs. Moreno's done some good things but still makes rookie mistakes.

* CBS4 will host the Josh McDaniels show on Saturday's, hosted by Lombardi and Miller. They joked about the dress code, McDaniels said Lombardi and Miller can set the dress code but he's not wearing a suit and tie.

* After the interview Lombardi and Miller spoke about McDaniels' passion and how friendly he's been when they've met him. He's the most hands-on coach they've ever seen and this is the most excited the players have ever been at practice. The team has fully bought into McDaniels' message.

Yea, thanks for the recap. Man, it seems like months before we can get started at camp. Cmon Broncos!

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 09:25 AM
Great interview, really. Or is montrose transcribing false information?!??!?! (kidding, obviously)

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 09:26 AM
I think this is a bigger factor than most realize. This is no shot at Shanahan because clearly he worked very hard as well but I guarantee you that a young, hungry guy like McD outworks most NFL coaches. There clearly is a burn out factor and age factor. Shanahan was rich and accomplished whereas McD isn't. He has a lot to prove and he'll tirelessly try to do so. There won't be any mailed in preparation or game planning.

http://whall.org/blog/files/lolcats-eye-tiger.jpg

Mountain Bronco
07-13-2009, 09:54 AM
Please don't ever say that Shanny was out worked. For all his faults, getting out worked wasn't one of them. His work ethic was legendary. He ran 5 miles before most coaches got out of bed then stayed later then they all did as well.

Maybe this burnt him out, but the dude worked extraordinarily hard.

Cito Pelon
07-13-2009, 09:58 AM
as well as me it's about time we played physical and strong at the point of attack but do we have the players to do so?

On paper, yeah we do. Yer gonna have to wait and see like all the rest of us to see what the finished product looks like.

Los Broncos
07-13-2009, 10:02 AM
Thanks for the post Montrose, good stuff.

Hotrod
07-13-2009, 10:16 AM
* Players determine their roles, they don't want to force any square pegs into round holes. Competition for playing time all season long. Front seven and OL play is all about hitting and being physical at training camp.

I just got a boner.

cutthemdown
07-13-2009, 10:17 AM
Of course, what are they going to say? We want to be a finesse team that shies away from contact, and that is what we've been focusing on during the minicamps?

No they mean that some teams/coaches put the emphasis on speed, and some put it on size.

IE Parcells won't draft a guy that doesn't fit his size ratio for a position, unless the player was really special.

IE Shanny liked fast agile players he felt could run run run all day long.

McDaniels seems to more like big players who can move around to different positions.

Shanny drafted a lot of smaller lineman, Mcdaniels drafted bigger ones. Honeslty it's pretty easy to see.

Shanny talked all the time about being fast, but I didn't see you come in and say what a joke, whats he going to say we are looking for slow players.

cutthemdown
07-13-2009, 10:18 AM
* Players determine their roles, they don't want to force any square pegs into round holes. Competition for playing time all season long. Front seven and OL play is all about hitting and being physical at training camp.

I just got a boner.

I can't wait to hopefully watch Broncos not get pushed around like last decade pretty much has been. We may not win 10 games but hopefully we just compete more physically.

ColoradoDarin
07-13-2009, 10:22 AM
Thanks montrose! a little Rep for the effort

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 10:26 AM
Shanny talked all the time about being fast, but I didn't see you come in and say what a joke, whats he going to say we are looking for slow players.

I wasn't addressing the "size vs. speed" debate. Obviously, that's a valid consideration and it clearly affects everything you do. I was addressing this sentence specifically and people's reactions to it:

Front seven and OL play is all about hitting and being physical at training camp.

Everyone is tripping over themselves over this statement when, if anyone did a search, they'd realize that some variation of it could be quoted by every coach every year at this time.

cutthemdown
07-13-2009, 10:28 AM
I wasn't addressing the "size vs. speed" debate. Obviously, that's a valid consideration and it clearly affects everything you do. I was addressing this sentence specifically and people's reactions to it:

Front seven and OL play is all about hitting and being physical at training camp.

Everyone is tripping over themselves over this statement when, if anyone did a search, they'd realize that some variation of it could be quoted by every coach every year at this time.

Some coaches don't believe in a lot of hitting at training camp. The old Broncos didn't hit that often and the practices were more like fast run throughs, without the hit at the end of play. I see what you mean though, but my point football full of cliches, it's not like it's just happening this yr.

Popps
07-13-2009, 10:33 AM
Great reading, Montrose. Thanks!


* After the interview Lombardi and Miller spoke about McDaniels' passion and how friendly he's been when they've met him. He's the most hands-on coach they've ever seen and this is the most excited the players have ever been at practice. The team has fully bought into McDaniels' message.

McDaniels strikes me as a man possessed. 18 hours a day seems about right for him. I think his commitment and hands-on approach is going to go a long way, particularly with the rookies... and I think the QBs are going to be real beneficiaries.

Dude was taking hours of video of JUST the QBs footwork at camp, and then sitting down and going over every minute of it with the guys.

Players notice this kind of commitment and maybe that's one of the reasons the interviewers think the team is buying into his message.

Northman
07-13-2009, 10:41 AM
The team has fully bought into McDaniels' message.[/I]




WTF? What is he talking about? The team is clearly is/was Brandon Marshall and Jay Cutler. What is this "team" thing he speaks of? Hilarious!

summerdenver
07-13-2009, 10:51 AM
Thanks for finding this and posting this Montrose.

Rabb
07-13-2009, 11:15 AM
Some coaches don't believe in a lot of hitting at training camp. The old Broncos didn't hit that often and the practices were more like fast run throughs, without the hit at the end of play. I see what you mean though, but my point football full of cliches, it's not like it's just happening this yr.

exactly

I hadn't heard that kind of attitude for a while around here either

Hotrod
07-13-2009, 11:21 AM
I'm sorry but anyone who thinks Denver was anything but soft the last few years is insane.

broncosteven
07-13-2009, 11:36 AM
Please don't ever say that Shanny was out worked. For all his faults, getting out worked wasn't one of them. His work ethic was legendary. He ran 5 miles before most coaches got out of bed then stayed later then they all did as well.

Maybe this burnt him out, but the dude worked extraordinarily hard.

The 18 hour workday from our coaching staff is nothing new.

There was an article in one of the papers a few years back that showed Mike's schedule, it started at Cherry Creek res at 4am and ending after 11pm

I don't think you can out work or prepare Shanny, I think his message fell on talentless deaf ears, mostly on the D and Dline. I think he thought in 2008 he would just out score people until he could draft a real D line in 2009.

24champ
07-13-2009, 11:47 AM
* You absolutely do not have a record set in your head as the Denver Broncos will expect to win every game they take the field. The team's theme is do things one thing at a time. Can't compare this team to last year's because so much has changed with a new staff and roster. Look at Atlanta, Baltimore and Miami last season - if you don't turn the ball over - you can be successful in the NFL. This is a major theme for the team as they led the league in turnovers last season.



Yes, that is key. However you also have to create turnovers. Last years _efense only got 13 turnovers. 7 interceptions and 6 fumbles recovered, that averages out to less than a turnover a game. I think that was a record low. Shouldn't be too hard to create more than 13 turnovers with Nolan at the helm.

* The offense is fully installed heading into camp from OTA's. Training camp is all about full-speed hitting and contact as the Broncos will be a very physical football team. Players are always learning and adapting throughout camp but they know what to expect.

Good!

Rock Chalk
07-13-2009, 11:51 AM
Few things:
1) I like the contact in training camp. This was a rarity in Shanahan training camps and while there is risk, there is also reward. Players are a little tougher, and little more prepared IMO.

2) I like Lombardi and Miller's post-interview comments a lot.

3) Orton was better than everyone else eh? Thats encouraging. Even if it is coach speak, its still encouraging. There is a guy that set himself apart.

4) Im still shaky, like most of you, about our front seven, but I think if they are actually hitting in practice, they can work on their tackling form. :)

gyldenlove
07-13-2009, 11:54 AM
Interesting that they are taking a different approach with Marshall than with Cutler. I wonder if they did learn or if they feel Marshall is more important.

Anywho, I hope everything goes according to plan, I still have this feeling that we could win more than 8 games this year.

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 11:58 AM
Yes, that is key. However you also have to create turnovers. Last years _efense only got 13 turnovers. 7 interceptions and 6 fumbles recovered, that averages out to less than a turnover a game. I think that was a record low. Shouldn't be too hard to create more than 13 turnovers with Nolan at the helm.

The Skins in 98 (when Nolan was their DC) only forced 13 INTs and 7 fumble recoveries, so it might be harder than you think.

Northman
07-13-2009, 11:59 AM
I'm sorry but anyone who thinks Denver was anything but soft the last few years is insane.

Is Limp a better word? ;)

Rock Chalk
07-13-2009, 12:13 PM
The Skins in 98 (when Nolan was their DC) only forced 13 INTs and 7 fumble recoveries, so it might be harder than you think.

If I did my math right thats still 7 more turnovers than we had last year and an average of 1.25 a game which was better than the average .81 a game.

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 12:20 PM
If I did my math right thats still 7 more turnovers than we had last year and an average of 1.25 a game which was better than the average .81 a game.

Yes, but there are a couple of sidenotes here:

1. They lumped most of those into 4 or 5 games. There were 11 games where they either forced zero or 1 turnover.

2. They also had Darrell Green, Kenard Lang, Dana Stubblefield and Dan Wilkenson in their primes.

I'm just trying to keep all the "Nolan is a savior" posters in check a bit here. This is the same guy that has been run out of other towns for not getting the job done on the defensive side of the ball, yet folks around here think that simply because his name isn't "Slowick", that he'll make it all go away.

One of my best friends is a Skins fan, so I've heard it all.

24champ
07-13-2009, 12:21 PM
The Skins in 98 (when Nolan was their DC) only forced 13 INTs and 7 fumble recoveries, so it might be harder than you think.

Just curious...what was the D ranked in 98?

BroncoMan4ever
07-13-2009, 12:23 PM
Good stuff man, thank you



maybe it is just me but I love hearing this

i am with you on that. we have been a finesse and speed team for too long. we are finally bringing in size and power, and i am going to enjoy seeing that.

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 12:25 PM
Just curious...what was the D ranked in 98?

24th in yards
28th in pts scored against

And this was his 2nd year with Washington, so it's not like he could blame the prior regime for sticking him with crap players and a new system, etc.

DeuceOfClub
07-13-2009, 12:31 PM
* McDaniels is currently on vacation at home but has still be going in and out of Dove Valley. The staff is off until next Wednesday. Has spent his vacation with his wife Laura and kids that just moved to Colorado from the east coast this week. Since McDaniels has taken the job, he's been working 18 hours a day so it was okay that his family wasn't here yet.

I usually finish 18 hours of work before lunch, and on most days put in another 18 right after. (On Tuesday I play Soccer so I'm limited to 16...)

fdf
07-13-2009, 12:41 PM
Of course, what are they going to say? We want to be a finesse team that shies away from contact, and that is what we've been focusing on during the minicamps?

:rofl: That has been our secret formula for success since 1999. Secret facilities in which our D practices ass-tackling and the like.

But I thought with all the hopey/changey stuff in the air, maybe things would be different this year.

24champ
07-13-2009, 12:42 PM
24th in yards
28th in pts scored against

And this was his 2nd year with Washington, so it's not like he could blame the prior regime for sticking him with crap players and a new system, etc.

Well I think that was an abberation...his last year in Washington, the D had 42 turnovers, 40 sacks. That's not too shabby. 4th in yards and 7th in pts against. Not bad at all.

mr007
07-13-2009, 12:43 PM
Is this recorded anywhere and available? Thanks btw Montrose, good stuff!

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 12:56 PM
Well I think that was an abberation...his last year in Washington, the D had 42 turnovers, 40 sacks. That's not too shabby. 4th in yards and 7th in pts against. Not bad at all.

Where are you getting your numbers from?

nfl.com has the following for 1999:

30th ranking in yards against
24th in points scored against

24champ
07-13-2009, 01:01 PM
Where are you getting your numbers from?

nfl.com has the following for 1999:

30th ranking in yards against
24th in points scored against

Yeah you are right, I don't know where I got those numbers from. Oops.

I was at this site though...

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/NolaMi0.htm

Rabb
07-13-2009, 01:03 PM
Where are you getting your numbers from?

nfl.com has the following for 1999:

30th ranking in yards against
24th in points scored against

I like his better

Cito Pelon
07-13-2009, 01:10 PM
24th in yards
28th in pts scored against

And this was his 2nd year with Washington, so it's not like he could blame the prior regime for sticking him with crap players and a new system, etc.

Jeez, you and 24Champ just have to outdo yourselves in finding something to be depressed about. You're like the two Eeyore's, mopey Donkeys.

Well, there's a few more Eeyore's out there besides you two. It's interesting that in Colorado most people are fine with the changes, the negative crap comes from people that are out-state.

Popps
07-13-2009, 01:20 PM
The 18 hour workday from our coaching staff is nothing new.

Shanahan was a very hard worker and as I've said so many times, there are few better game-day coaches.

I agree that his message may have grown tired, though... and that's what happens at a certain point. That's why change is a necessary thing, sometimes. I expect Shanny to go on and be successful somewhere else. Coaches just run their course, even great ones.

But, I do think we have something special in McD. The guy just sounds like he's cut from a different mold, as far as coaches go. I remember reading about Jimmy Johnson basically losing his whole family over his coaching, he was so obsessed with winning. Hopefully that won't happen to McDaniels, but I get the idea that he's that committed in his desire to succeed at what he's doing.

I couldn't be more stoked to watch this franchise transform. Here's hoping we can build something similar to what Pitt/NE have built, in that the structure lends to sustained winning, not reliance on a single player or two for the team's success.

montrose
07-13-2009, 01:29 PM
I couldn't be more stoked to watch this franchise transform. Here's hoping we can build something similar to what Pitt/NE have built, in that the structure lends to sustained winning, not reliance on a single player or two for the team's success.

Bingo, my greatest hope too.

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 01:33 PM
Jeez, you and 24Champ just have to outdo yourselves in finding something to be depressed about. You're like the two Eeyore's, mopey Donkeys.

Well, there's a few more Eeyore's out there besides you two. It's interesting that in Colorado most people are fine with the changes, the negative crap comes from people that are out-state.

Depressed? Not me.

Negative? Not me.

It's called realism. Realism is often confused with negativity though, so I guess I can't completely be surprised. The optimists of this board are constantly waxing poetic about the infallable Mr. Nolan. I simply am taking it upon myself to share what I've learned about him (mostly from a fellow Skin fan, and obviously some from a simple statistical search online) and to point out his "more human" traits.

24champ
07-13-2009, 01:34 PM
Depressed? Not me.

Negative? Not me.

It's called realism. Realism is often confused with negativity though, so I guess I can't completely be surprised. The optimists of this board are constantly waxing poetic about the infallable Mr. Nolan. I simply am taking it upon myself to share what I've learned about him (mostly from a fellow Skin fan, and obviously some from a simple statistical search online) and to point out his "more human" traits.

Careful. Cito might make an avatar about you. ROFL!

Cito Pelon
07-13-2009, 01:39 PM
Depressed? Not me.

Negative? Not me.

It's called realism. Realism is often confused with negativity though, so I guess I can't completely be surprised. The optimists of this board are constantly waxing poetic about the infallable Mr. Nolan. I simply am taking it upon myself to share what I've learned about him (mostly from a fellow Skin fan, and obviously some from a simple statistical search online) and to point out his "more human" traits.

The Broncs haven't put pads on yet, Mr. Realism.

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 01:42 PM
The Broncs haven't put pads on yet, Mr. Realism.

Show me one post where I said they did. Or where I predicted the future.

All I have focused on is past performance.

vancejohnson82
07-13-2009, 01:49 PM
Show me one post where I said they did. Or where I predicted the future.

All I have focused on is past performance.

At least your dogs look pumped up for the season.

It's like you leave for work and make them watch a loop of the Terrel Davis injury over and over again.

Hamrob
07-13-2009, 01:52 PM
Thanks for the update Montrose!

I'm a Shanny fan and will always be a Shanny fan. I think he'll go on to more success elsewhere.

I was really excited when Bowlin went out and got McDaniels...primarily because of how he could improve Cutler and our offense. I figured, look what he did with Cassell...Cutler's going to be unstoppable.

I will always think letting Cuter go was a nieve mistake by a kid coach. But, I agree, there's plenty to be excited over with McDaniels. If we don't do well, it won't be because of lack of effort on his part.

I do believe however...that the heat will be turned up on him in 2010. If we miss the Playoffs this year and our defense continues to be poor and our offense less than what we're accustomed to...He'll be on the hot seat and will have a hard time getting off of it.

Let's just all hope that his energy, brashness and will to win...ignites our team and that some how we find a way to win football games. The season is just around the corner boys!

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 01:54 PM
It's like you leave for work and make them watch a loop of the Terrel Davis injury over and over again.

I did that once after one of them took a sh*t on the carpet. They proceeded to do the same thing the next day, so I decided to pick it up a notch. I made them watch footage of Nolan's defenses in Washington. The behavior fiinally stopped.

cutthemdown
07-13-2009, 01:54 PM
Thanks for the update Montrose!

I'm a Shanny fan and will always be a Shanny fan. I think he'll go on to more success elsewhere.

I was really excited when Bowlin went out and got McDaniels...primarily because of how he could improve Cutler and our offense. I figured, look what he did with Cassell...Cutler's going to be unstoppable.

I will always think letting Cuter go was a nieve mistake by a kid coach. But, I agree, there's plenty to be excited over with McDaniels. If we don't do well, it won't be because of lack of effort on his part.

I do believe however...that the heat will be turned up on him in 2010. If we miss the Playoffs this year and our defense continues to be poor and our offense less than what we're accustomed to...He'll be on the hot seat and will have a hard time getting off of it.

Let's just all hope that his energy, brashness and will to win...ignites our team and that some how we find a way to win football games. The season is just around the corner boys!

If Shanny can go to a team that has a strong d coord he would want to keep, and a veteran team, I also think he will kick ass and probably get close or maybe even go to another Superbowl. I think if he gets a young team that needs a lot of molding he will struggle. I just think he has mellowed to the point he needs vet leadership to get it done. That and a rich owner that will keep his nose out.

Kaylore
07-13-2009, 02:00 PM
24th in yards
28th in pts scored against

And this was his 2nd year with Washington, so it's not like he could blame the prior regime for sticking him with crap players and a new system, etc.

Sure he can. He was the defensive coordinator, not the head coach or GM. The Redskins front office was horrid. They had a series of horrible drafts and produced very few good players on either side of the ball. And they had freaking Norv Turner as the coach who is notorious for running teams that produce soft defenses.

When you look at his body of work, Mike Nolan has coached solid defenses everywhere he's been a coordinator before and after the Redskins. I think that trend speaks to the Redskins issue being an aberration. It usually takes a year, but after some time to install his system and get the right players, Nolan's defenses are tough and they work. Are they the best? No but they are often in the top ten. Thankfully, at the very worst we won't have the garbage calling plays and having his unqualified son coach positions that we had last year.

Tombstone RJ
07-13-2009, 02:04 PM
* McDaniels is currently on vacation at home but has still be going in and out of Dove Valley. The staff is off until next Wednesday. Has spent his vacation with his wife Laura and kids that just moved to Colorado from the east coast this week. Since McDaniels has taken the job, he's been working 18 hours a day so it was okay that his family wasn't here yet.

* The first seven months of the job were exciting. There are tough decisions to make as an NFL Head Coach. Loves how the locker room is coming together along with a great rookie class. The spring did well to set the tone for what the new Denver Broncos will be.

* The offense is fully installed heading into camp from OTA's. Training camp is all about full-speed hitting and contact as the Broncos will be a very physical football team. Players are always learning and adapting throughout camp but they know what to expect.

* Marshall has been sent his letter with a reporting date and weight as have the other 80 players on the team. Looking forward to having him in camp and making him a big part of the team. Been conversations with his agent, Xanders, Bowlen, Marshall and McDaniels - dialogue continues. McDaniels has a good relationship with Marshall.

* Players determine their roles, they don't want to force any square pegs into round holes. Competition for playing time all season long. Front seven and OL play is all about hitting and being physical at training camp.

* The staff felt comfortable that Orton was clearly the best QB, they had no time frame to name a starter. Simms did some good things too but Orton separated himself from the others. Simms will push Orton because things can always change. McDaniels is very excited about Orton in this offense with the other players.

* You absolutely do not have a record set in your head as the Denver Broncos will expect to win every game they take the field. The team's theme is do things one thing at a time. Can't compare this team to last year's because so much has changed with a new staff and roster. Look at Atlanta, Baltimore and Miami last season - if you don't turn the ball over - you can be successful in the NFL. This is a major theme for the team as they led the league in turnovers last season.

* Moreno will have a shot at starting as will Hillis, Buckhalter, Jordan and Torain once he returns from injury. The backfield is deep and talented. Roles haven't been set yet since there's been no hitting. McDaniels wants it to be difficult for players to win jobs. Moreno's done some good things but still makes rookie mistakes.

* CBS4 will host the Josh McDaniels show on Saturday's, hosted by Lombardi and Miller. They joked about the dress code, McDaniels said Lombardi and Miller can set the dress code but he's not wearing a suit and tie.

* After the interview Lombardi and Miller spoke about McDaniels' passion and how friendly he's been when they've met him. He's the most hands-on coach they've ever seen and this is the most excited the players have ever been at practice. The team has fully bought into McDaniels' message.

Nice recap, thanks Montrose!

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 02:06 PM
As I listed on the prior page, he had 4 excellent defensive players at their prime in 98-99, along with a few other decent players, so I'll stand by my statement. Talent wasn't lacking. Especially when you compare it to what he was looking at when he took this job.

Cito Pelon
07-13-2009, 02:10 PM
Show me one post where I said they did. Or where I predicted the future.

All I have focused on is past performance.

Dude, pretty much all you do is allude to doom and gloom. That seems to be pervading pretty much all of your posts.

Kaylore
07-13-2009, 02:11 PM
As I listed on the prior page, he had 4 excellent defensive players at their prime in 98-99, along with a few other decent players, so I'll stand by my statement. Talent wasn't lacking. Especially when you compare it to what he was looking at when he took this job.

That still doesn't explain


The Norv Turner factor. How everywhere he coaches his defenses are horrid.
The other seven players and poor drafts.
The fact that before and since his time with the Redskins his defenses were good. If he really "sucked" with the Redskins and all their problems were his fault, he managed to learn from that experience.


Nolan isn't the greatest coach but he is among the best in the league at what he does.

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 02:24 PM
Dude, pretty much all you do is allude to doom and gloom. That seems to be pervading pretty much all of your posts.

Find one post of mine where I allude to or explicitly predict any less than 8 wins this season.....anywhere on this site.

I have been critical of some of McDaniels' decisions/handling of certain situations (not all by a long shot), some of the discussion here of Nolan, and the trade-ups for Smith and Quinn (related to point no 1). Aside from that, I've been positive or neutral with regard to everything that's happened this year. That is FAR from doom and gloom. But, since you can't seem to focus on too many things at once, I guess it may seem that way to you.

bpc
07-13-2009, 02:25 PM
I want to win and the time is coming soon when more than words will be required to prove that we are getting better.

We shall see.

Go Broncos.

24champ
07-13-2009, 02:31 PM
When you look at his body of work, Mike Nolan has coached solid defenses everywhere he's been a coordinator before and after the Redskins. I think that trend speaks to the Redskins issue being an aberration. It usually takes a year, but after some time to install his system and get the right players, Nolan's defenses are tough and they work. Are they the best? No but they are often in the top ten.

So what is the excuse for Nolan when he was in San Fransisco as HC?

2005
30th Points against
32nd Yards allowed

2006
32nd Points against
26th Yards allowed

2007
20th Points against
25th Yards allowed

2008*
23rd Points against
13th Yards allowed



*Nolan got canned 7 games in.

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 02:34 PM
He'll naturally say it was because he was the HC, not the DC. And then I would argue that such a stance is inconsistent with his use of Norv Turner to support his argument on the prior page.

Broncos_OTM
07-13-2009, 02:35 PM
So what is the excuse for Nolan when he was in San Fransisco as HC?

2005
30th Points against
32nd Yards allowed

2006
32nd Points against
26th Yards allowed

2007
20th Points against
25th Yards allowed

2008*
23rd Points against
13th Yards allowed



*Nolan got canned 7 games in.

Mike Nolan as you pointed out was the HC. That speaks volumes to me. When he went to san fran the team was nothing and it looked as though in two years you see dramatic improvement from the D. But then again he was the Head Coach. He's got two years with me before i start calling for his head.

DBroncos4life
07-13-2009, 02:39 PM
Did he comment on what his thoughts might have been on that ground breaking report that we got from Larry Fitz's twiter page? I was really hoping he could shed some light on that.

DBroncos4life
07-13-2009, 02:42 PM
Sure he can. He was the defensive coordinator, not the head coach or GM. The Redskins front office was horrid. They had a series of horrible drafts and produced very few good players on either side of the ball. And they had freaking Norv Turner as the coach who is notorious for running teams that produce soft defenses.

When you look at his body of work, Jim Bates has coached solid defenses everywhere he's been a coordinator before and after the Redskins. I think that trend speaks to the Dolphins issue being an aberration. It usually takes a year, but after some time to install his system and get the right players, Bates's defenses are tough and they work. Are they the best? No but they are often in the top ten. Thankfully, at the very worst we won't have the garbage calling plays and having his unqualified son coach positions that we had last year.

I replaced Nolan's name with another coach I have heard something along the same lines from.

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 02:47 PM
Seriously, I took a lot of crap around here two summers ago from a handful of folks when I dared to question the Great Jim Bates' resume. Feels like deja vu.

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 02:51 PM
Seriously, I took a lot of crap around here two summers ago from a handful of folks when I dared to question the Great Jim Bates' resume. Feels like deja vu.

He should've gotten more time. :(

DBroncos4life
07-13-2009, 02:52 PM
Seriously, I took a lot of crap around here two summers ago from a handful of folks when I dared to question the Great Jim Bates' resume. Feels like deja vu.

both are good coaches, and there is reason to think things should improve with Nolan but if they don't then what? We can't try and manage a game when we are behind.

Cito Pelon
07-13-2009, 03:00 PM
Find one post of mine where I allude to or explicitly predict any less than 8 wins this season.....anywhere on this site.

I have been critical of some of McDaniels' decisions/handling of certain situations (not all by a long shot), some of the discussion here of Nolan, and the trade-ups for Smith and Quinn (related to point no 1). Aside from that, I've been positive or neutral with regard to everything that's happened this year. That is FAR from doom and gloom. But, since you can't seem to focus on too many things at once, I guess it may seem that way to you.

Yer pretty much a doom and gloomer seems to me. You seem to get a lot of glee from those who post doom and gloom.

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 03:07 PM
He should've gotten more time. :(

http://www.teenhollywood.com/video/view/id/12877/man-on-fire-i-wish-you-had-more-time.html

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 03:08 PM
http://www.teenhollywood.com/video/view/id/12877/man-on-fire-i-wish-you-had-more-time.html

Hey did you see Knowing? If so, did you like it? Watched it last night.

Beantown Bronco
07-13-2009, 03:10 PM
Hey did you see Knowing? If so, did you like it? Watched it last night.

Not yet, but it won't be long now. It's either #1 or #2 in my netflix queue.

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 03:13 PM
Not yet, but it won't be long now. It's either #1 or #2 in my netflix queue.

Not to spoil anything, but it gets "out-there" pretty quick, and the ending is pretty predictable. The ending theme is something I'm into though so I thoroughly enjoyed the movie.

Kaylore
07-13-2009, 03:24 PM
He'll naturally say it was because he was the HC, not the DC. And then I would argue that such a stance is inconsistent with his use of Norv Turner to support his argument on the prior page.

No it isn't. There are some coordinators who are not good head coaches. That is a perfectly legitimate argument. Guys like Wade Phillips, Buddy Ryan, and Dick LeBeau are awesome coordinators and poor head coaches. If we hired Nolan as a head coach I would have serious misgivings, but we didn't. The bottom line is Mike Nolan coaches good defenses as a coordinator. There are years of experience to back this up. Also good coordinators that fail as head coach's often do even better when relegated to coordinator positions because of the new perspective.

I know people like you, BPC, 24Champ, DramaLllama and others are determined to proclaim this team a failure and piss on anything and everything going on with the team before a game has been played, so arguing here with you is probably pointless. However I'm not going to let the decision of an owner to trade a whiny QB to sour my perception of every single position, player and decision that is made before I see the team hit the field.

Kaylore
07-13-2009, 03:26 PM
I replaced Nolan's name with another coach I have heard something along the same lines from.

I don't think there is much debate that Shanahan didn't know how to put together and run a good defense. Was that your point?

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 03:33 PM
I don't think there is much debate that Shanahan didn't know how to put together and run a good defense. Was that your point?

His track record says the complete opposite.

Kaylore
07-13-2009, 03:40 PM
His track record says the complete opposite.

The complete opposite would be a history of elite defenses, with draft picks that become pro-bowlers and a consistent system that finds ways to replace people while and offense that has it's moments but is over the long haul average to below average. Speaking from a drafting and especially free agent stand point, Shanahan has at best been "underwhelming" when it comes to finding good defenders.

bpc
07-13-2009, 03:46 PM
No it isn't. There are some coordinators who are not good head coaches. That is a perfectly legitimate argument. Guys like Wade Phillips, Buddy Ryan, and Dick LeBeau are awesome coordinators and poor head coaches. If we hired Nolan as a head coach I would have serious misgivings, but we didn't. The bottom line is Mike Nolan coaches good defenses as a coordinator. There are years of experience to back this up. Also good coordinators that fail as head coach's often do even better when relegated to coordinator positions because of the new perspective.

I know people like you, BPC, 24Champ, DramaLllama and others are determined to proclaim this team a failure and piss on anything and everything going on with the team before a game has been played, so arguing here with you is probably pointless. However I'm not going to let the decision of an owner to trade a whiny QB to sour my perception of every single position, player and decision that is made before I see the team hit the field.

I've stated that several moves this offseason have been rather silly. I'm not in the minority on this one, most of the fans, media, and even team members and have stated such.

In the end I hope we win. In the end, you want to continue bashing Shanahan, Cutler and just hope that their results on the field prove you right so you can let everybody know about it.

You love you some you and that's what this comes down to. Your opinion is that Denver is better off, Shanahan sucked balls and Cutler is vastly overrated and there isn't much else to say. Any other opinions are wrong vs. the great Kaylore.

Your intelligence may hold up in a jewelry store but it doesn't really translate to football related discussion.

24champ
07-13-2009, 03:46 PM
I know people like you, BPC, 24Champ, DramaLllama and others are determined to proclaim this team a failure and piss on anything and everything going on with the team before a game has been played, so arguing here with you is probably pointless.

It's well documented that you are the biggest homer on this board. So anything the team does gets rubber stamped by you. Doesn't matter what it is.

Pseudofool
07-13-2009, 03:51 PM
I've stated that several moves this offseason have been rather silly. I'm not in the minority on this one, most of the fans, media, and even team members and have stated such.Which local media members are with you, much less a majority? Which players are with you? How many posters are actually with you? And given that you've said 'several' moves you'll have to do better than hanging your hat on the Cutler trade.

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 03:52 PM
The complete opposite would be a history of elite defenses, with draft picks that become pro-bowlers and a consistent system that finds ways to replace people while and offense that has it's moments but is over the long haul average to below average. Speaking from a drafting and especially free agent stand point, Shanahan has at best been "underwhelming" when it comes to finding good defenders.

I think you meant defense there.

In which case, keep in mind his career record on defense is better than Dungy, Fischer and Belicek. Only Cowher had better.

When you consider that Mike Shanahan, an offensive coach, fielded better defensive units than 75% of modern Hall of Fame DEFENSIVE coaches, I'd say that's pretty damn conclusive. Was it the SB Ravens or the 85 Bears? Absolutely not.

As for your "acquiring talent", that's also silly. We had some AMAZING players careers cut short by injury (Wilson and Mobley--Pryce is debatable. Had he remained healthy, he'd probably have retired a Bronco but that's speculation and shouldn't be counted on). Naturally all this is outside of acquiring a guy like Champ Bailey or John Lynch. Outside of Wilson and Mobley, he also drafted a slew of solid defensive role players like DJ Williams, Berry, Hayward, Kennedy, etc and signed many more like Courtney Brown and Kelly Herndon.

...but Ed Reeeeeeeeeeeeed? :)

What's going on currently is a re-evaluation from bitter fans after a three year rebuilding process. It's short term memory in it's purest form.

Pseudofool
07-13-2009, 03:53 PM
It's well documented that you are the biggest homer on this board. So anything the team does gets rubber stamped by you. Doesn't matter what it is.Since when is withholding jugment being a homer. Just because the Cutler-widows corner a number of reasonable posters in arguing against the hyper-negativity does not mean they possess hyper-optimism. Heck, homerism sucks as much as the vitrolic hate you guys spew; I'm not seeing a lot of homerism from Kaylore, in fact, he's constantly hedging his statements with qualifiers.

Cito Pelon
07-13-2009, 03:57 PM
I've stated that several moves this offseason have been rather silly. I'm not in the minority on this one, most of the fans, media, and even team members and have stated such.

In the end I hope we win. In the end, you want to continue bashing Shanahan, Cutler and just hope that their results on the field prove you right so you can let everybody know about it.

You love you some you and that's what this comes down to. Your opinion is that Denver is better off, Shanahan sucked balls and Cutler is vastly overrated and there isn't much else to say. Any other opinions are wrong vs. the great Kaylore.

Your intelligence may hold up in a jewelry store but it doesn't really translate to football related discussion.

Don't make me laugh.

The majority of fans in Colorado are fine with the changes, and that's what counts.

And the team seems to be very happy with McDaniels.

24champ
07-13-2009, 03:59 PM
The majority of fans in Colorado are fine with the changes, and that's what counts.


Prove it. Link?

Pseudofool
07-13-2009, 03:59 PM
Prove it. Link?Prove the converse. Link?

24champ
07-13-2009, 04:01 PM
Prove the converse. Link?

I didn't make the statement that most of Colorado was happy with the changes. He did. Prove it.

Pseudofool
07-13-2009, 04:04 PM
I didn't make the statement that most of Colorado was happy with the changes. He did. Prove it.Well if you disbelieve it; you must believe the converse is true. And BPC did state the majority of fans agree with his POV, I didn't see you call him out...I wonder why.

Atlas
07-13-2009, 04:05 PM
I didn't make the statement that most of Colorado was happy with the changes. He did. Prove it.

Who cares. Most people will talk themselves into liking something if they have no other choice.

A good percentage of people hated the Shanny firing, but after a couple of days they talked themselves into thinking that it was for the best.

A good percentage of fans hated the fact that McDaniels was hired over a Spags, but after it's done they talk themselves into thinking McDainels is a genius.

A good percentage of fans hated the fact that Cutler was traded, but after it's done they talk themseleves into thinking that he is a whiner, crybaby and that it's for the best.

Pretty soon people will even talk themselves into Orton by a quality starting QB. It will happen, just watch.

Popps
07-13-2009, 04:09 PM
It's well documented that you are the biggest homer on this board. So anything the team does gets rubber stamped by you. Doesn't matter what it is.

Calling Kaylore a homer is not only off-base, it's a compliment.

Since when did being a bit of a homer become a bad thing? Only on the Orange Mane is it fashionable to constantly profess the glass half-empty. (And that's really only a handful of posters.)

How can you call a guy a homer when he went against the grain initially, calling for the replacement of the staff?

Remember, Kaylore is down with change, and was before we made the change.

So, he showed discontent before you did. Sorry, but that's not a homer. That's a guy smart enough to see an organization that needed a philosophy shift.

Popps
07-13-2009, 04:10 PM
Pretty soon people will even talk themselves into Orton by a quality starting QB. It will happen, just watch.

So, you're positive he can't he, huh?

NYBronco
07-13-2009, 04:11 PM
I care about the success of the Denver Broncos and how that gets done really doesn't make any difference. Let's play some ball and see where the McDaniels plan takes us.

24champ
07-13-2009, 04:11 PM
Who cares. Most people will talk themselves into liking something if they have no other choice.

A good percentage of people hated the Shanny firing, but after a couple of days they talked themselves into thinking that it was for the best.

A good percentage of fans hated the fact that McDaniels was hired over a Spags, but after it's done they talk themselves into thinking McDainels is a genius.

A good percentage of fans hated the fact that Cutler was traded, but after it's done they talk themseleves into thinking that he is a whiner, crybaby and that it's for the best.

Pretty soon people will even talk themselves into Orton by a quality starting QB. It will happen, just watch.

Excellent point.

bpc
07-13-2009, 04:12 PM
Which local media members are with you, much less a majority? Which players are with you? How many posters are actually with you? And given that you've said 'several' moves you'll have to do better than hanging your hat on the Cutler trade.

I'm not going to waste time posting every link. Go re-read anything from a majority of the Denver Post back in February, March, April. Go read ESPN. Go watch the NFL network. Hell read anything in the media related to other GM's/personnel departments. They've all thought we're crazy.

A poster earlier phrased it the best about the fans. There's been enough time in here to turn fans from Cutler's side, to the teams or whatever. People on this site are probably 50/50.

I would probably think that about 70% of all think that we've just had a disasterous offseason between firing Shanahan, trading a franchise QB, trading our number pick next year when most consider us to probably be one of the worst 10 franchises in the NFL next season.

Take your pick.

I'm moving on up. I'm excited for the season, still skeptical though but i'm hoping for the best. We do have some talent on this roster and if McDaniels can conjure up some of that offense he had in NE with Orton or whomever at the help and the 3-4 can take hold, maybe we can make it to 8-8. That would be huge IMO.

Atlas
07-13-2009, 04:13 PM
So, you're positive he can't he, huh?

I don't have any delusions about Kyle Orton being great. If given a good defense he can manage games.

broncosteven
07-13-2009, 04:35 PM
I don't have any delusions about Kyle Orton being great. If given a good defense he can manage games.

If he doesn't get injured just enough to mask his suck level.

I think Orton will be ok for this team THIS YEAR, he is a vet, he will know where to line guys up, maybe even read a D or 2.

He can see over the Oline and knows when to feel the pressure and dump the ball off.

He will not have confidence in his arm and won't make the great throw, he will throw INT's all QB's do.

If he plays well he gets a contract if he sucks he doesnt. That will be the biggest factor in his play this year.

Cito Pelon
07-13-2009, 04:36 PM
Prove it. Link?

ESPN polls state-by-state after the Shanny firing and after the Cutler trade showed Colorado was positive about both. Other states were negative in those ESPN polls.

Most people in Colorado are ok with the changes.

tsiguy96
07-13-2009, 04:49 PM
ESPN polls state-by-state after the Shanny firing and after the Cutler trade showed Colorado was positive about both. Other states were negative in those ESPN polls.

Most people in Colorado are ok with the changes.

yep.

of course before the changes happened people didnt want them - people hate change. but now taht it has happened and people take a step back they realize it was needed.

DBroncos4life
07-13-2009, 05:41 PM
ESPN polls state-by-state after the Shanny firing and after the Cutler trade showed Colorado was positive about both. Other states were negative in those ESPN polls.

Most people in Colorado are ok with the changes.

McD has a less then 50 % in the state of Colorado try again buddy. 71 percent of the people in Colorado don't think that McD is a good hire for the Broncos.

Kaylore
07-13-2009, 05:47 PM
I think you meant defense there.

In which case, keep in mind his career record on defense is better than Dungy, Fischer and Belicek. Only Cowher had better.

When you consider that Mike Shanahan, an offensive coach, fielded better defensive units than 75% of modern Hall of Fame DEFENSIVE coaches, I'd say that's pretty damn conclusive. Was it the SB Ravens or the 85 Bears? Absolutely not.

As for your "acquiring talent", that's also silly. We had some AMAZING players careers cut short by injury (Wilson and Mobley--Pryce is debatable. Had he remained healthy, he'd probably have retired a Bronco but that's speculation and shouldn't be counted on). Naturally all this is outside of acquiring a guy like Champ Bailey or John Lynch. Outside of Wilson and Mobley, he also drafted a slew of solid defensive role players like DJ Williams, Berry, Hayward, Kennedy, etc and signed many more like Courtney Brown and Kelly Herndon.

...but Ed Reeeeeeeeeeeeed? :)

What's going on currently is a re-evaluation from bitter fans after a three year rebuilding process. It's short term memory in it's purest form.
Hogwash. Belichick regularly has teams that are in the top ten if not he top five on defense and they always play hard in the playoffs. Cowher was the same way, at worst probably dipping to 12th best defense in a "bad" year.

Shanahan's defenses were most of the time in the teens. There were only two times we had a good defense: Larry Coyer's tenure and the SB years. And the latter looked better than it was because of the huge leads we'd shoot off to. Don't get me wrong, they were great for our formula (high turnovers, solid redzone) but they weren't even top five in either category, and on a team with an average offense they finish in the teens. Shanahan was a great coach but he wasn't so hot when it came to putting together a defense and special teams unit.

broncosteven
07-13-2009, 05:54 PM
Hogwash. Belichick regularly has teams that are in the top ten if not he top five on defense and they always play hard in the playoffs. Cowher was the same way, at worst probably dipping to 12th best defense in a "bad" year.

Shanahan's defenses were most of the time in the teens. There were only two times we had a good defense: Larry Coyer's tenure and the SB years. And the latter looked better than it was because of the huge leads we'd shoot off to. Don't get me wrong, they were great for our formula (high turnovers, solid redzone) but they weren't even top five in either category, and on a team with an average offense they finish in the teens. Shanahan was a great coach but he wasn't so hot when it came to putting together a defense and special teams unit.

Just remember this:

No Shanny or Goodmans = no Chris Kuper. :yayaya:

DBroncos4life
07-13-2009, 05:55 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=nfl&pollId=73094

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 05:56 PM
Hogwash. Belichick regularly has teams that are in the top ten if not he top five on defense and they always play hard in the playoffs. Cowher was the same way, at worst probably dipping to 12th best defense in a "bad" year.

Shanahan's defenses were most of the time in the teens. There were only two times we had a good defense: Larry Coyer's tenure and the SB years. And the latter looked better than it was because of the huge leads we'd shoot off to. Don't get me wrong, they were great for our formula (high turnovers, solid redzone) but they weren't even top five in either category, and on a team with an average offense they finish in the teens. Shanahan was a great coach but he wasn't so hot when it came to putting together a defense and special teams unit.

Shanahan's average defensive ranking is 11. That's very, very good... especially over a 14 year span.

Then maybe you'll find this interesting. Here's the best defensive head coaches in the NFL (our modern HoF candidates) and their career defensive rankings. Bill Belicek (NE only) comes in at a respectable 14. Tony Dungy (IND only) ties Bill at a solid 14 (edging him with decimals). Jeff Fischer (over that SAME 14 year span) is on the verge of being below average with 16 (might even be below average if you weight the years he coached pre-expansion). For those that might think this comparison is bull **** or skewed: Bill Cowher, on the other hand, proved to be dynamite with a career average of SIX! Also important to note, his best seasons WERE with Dick Lebeau as well, but still strong even without him, and hiring a HoF DC shouldn't be held against him (Disclaimer: I don't approve of a Bill Cowher signing)

Kaylore
07-13-2009, 06:04 PM
Shanahan's average defensive ranking is 11. That's very, very good... especially over a 14 year span.

Then maybe you'll find this interesting. Here's the best defensive head coaches in the NFL (our modern HoF candidates) and their career defensive rankings. Bill Belicek (NE only) comes in at a respectable 14. Tony Dungy (IND only) ties Bill at a solid 14 (edging him with decimals). Jeff Fischer (over that SAME 14 year span) is on the verge of being below average with 16 (might even be below average if you weight the years he coached pre-expansion). For those that might think this comparison is bull **** or skewed: Bill Cowher, on the other hand, proved to be dynamite with a career average of SIX! Also important to note, his best seasons WERE with Dick Lebeau as well, but still strong even without him, and hiring a HoF DC shouldn't be held against him (Disclaimer: I don't approve of a Bill Cowher signing)

Yeah I just looked at the numbers and I don't buy it. The Browns likely skew the average down. Maybe if you average the numbers it can appear that way, but you honestly want to tell me that Shanahan's defenses were better than those other coache's? You know they weren't. Their defenses were also more physical and made plays when counted. We had a finesse defense that never seemed to find the second gear in the playoffs. Those other coaches defenses were better and it showed. Like I said, Larry Coyer was the best thing to happen to Shanahan.

Kaylore
07-13-2009, 06:07 PM
Just remember this:

No Shanny or Goodmans = no Chris Kuper. :yayaya:

I loved Shanahan has an offensive GM. And the Goodman's were great too. You won't hear me complain about that one.

24champ
07-13-2009, 06:12 PM
Since when is withholding jugment being a homer.

He just voted for extending Kyle Orton before he plays a meaningful down in a Broncos uniform.

Cito Pelon
07-13-2009, 06:13 PM
Who cares. Most people will talk themselves into liking something if they have no other choice.

A good percentage of people hated the Shanny firing, but after a couple of days they talked themselves into thinking that it was for the best.

A good percentage of fans hated the fact that McDaniels was hired over a Spags, but after it's done they talk themselves into thinking McDainels is a genius.

A good percentage of fans hated the fact that Cutler was traded, but after it's done they talk themseleves into thinking that he is a whiner, crybaby and that it's for the best.

Pretty soon people will even talk themselves into Orton by a quality starting QB. It will happen, just watch.

The majority in Colorado were in favor of both firing Shanny and trading Cutler. And Colorado is what counts. I'm sorry to break this to you, I really am because you out-staters are passionate fans, but Colorado is what counts.

Blueflame
07-13-2009, 06:20 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/fp/flashPollResultsState?sportIndex=nfl&pollId=73094

Nice... even Massachusetts doesn't think McDaniels was a good HC hire... "yes" only wins in New Hampshire.

Blueflame
07-13-2009, 06:23 PM
The majority in Colorado were in favor of both firing Shanny and trading Cutler. And Colorado is what counts. I'm sorry to break this to you, I really am because you out-staters are passionate fans, but Colorado is what counts.

I'd really love to see some proof of these claims...

24champ
07-13-2009, 06:30 PM
First of all, with the defense broken and the offense fine, Josh McDaniels runs off the Pro Bowl quarterback. Then McDaniels stockpiles running backs through free agency. We give him a B-plus for that. Brian Dawkins is a good move; give him an A for that. Then it's draft weekend. Glaring need: D-line. So McDaniels ... drafts six out of 10 on offense! And zero on D-line. Yes, he got some good players. Knowshon Moreno will be good right away. But what's the plan for defensive line? I cancelled my season tickets.
-- Walter Friend, Colorado Springs

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12291744

Another happy camper from Colorado.

24champ
07-13-2009, 06:31 PM
I'd really love to see some proof of these claims...

I'd like to know why Pat Bowlen wasted his time by issuing a letter to season ticket holders to be calm and that everything is fine, if everything was good in Colorado as Cito makes it out to be.

tsiguy96
07-13-2009, 06:51 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12291744

Another happy camper from Colorado.

good thing he cancelled his season tickets, he can wait 10-15 years again to get tehm back once he jumps back on the bandwagon.

24champ
07-13-2009, 07:04 PM
good thing he cancelled his season tickets, he can wait 10-15 years again to get tehm back once he jumps back on the bandwagon.

I agree with you. Anyone that cancelled their seats is a moron.

Archer81
07-13-2009, 07:18 PM
Denver will be fine. At the end of the day, its just a game. We are clearly going to run the ball more then we did a year ago. We drafted the best overall RB in the draft and drafted a TE that is a clone of Daniel Graham. We ran the ball 38% of the time last year, still had 1800 rushing yards and 4.5 ypc. We get more balance on offense our defense should be on the field less making them more effective, especially since we have an entirely new coaching staff and scheme. Offensively we should also improve on red zone % by running more. We know we have good WR's outside and good tightends. Lost in the plague of injuries to our runningbacks is we can run the ball too. McDaniels apparently knows this, so thats what we will do. Be positive. :)

:Broncos:

broncosteven
07-13-2009, 07:41 PM
Please let me know if they heard the words "I'll take care of it" during the interview.

Cito Pelon
07-13-2009, 07:45 PM
McD has a less then 50 % in the state of Colorado try again buddy. 71 percent of the people in Colorado don't think that McD is a good hire for the Broncos.

True that the polls are against McD, there's a piling on factor there, but the polls also showed Colorado was for firing Shanny and trading Cutler.

I'm ok with McD myself. He's a confident guy, assembled a good assistant staff, kept two key assistants in Bobby Turner and Rick Dennison, the players appear to be buying into his game, all the key players except that dolll-baby Jay are on board.

Pseudofool
07-13-2009, 07:49 PM
Initial reactions to a first time 31-year old coach are negative? Color me surprised.

I imagine the general sentiment for first time coach hires is almost always negative across the board.

Total Meh.

DBroncos4life
07-13-2009, 07:56 PM
good thing he cancelled his season tickets, he can wait 10-15 years again to get tehm back once he jumps back on the bandwagon.

Speaking of banwangon 2006!!!!

Blueflame
07-13-2009, 08:10 PM
True that the polls are against McD, there's a piling on factor there, but the polls also showed Colorado was for firing Shanny and trading Cutler.

I'm ok with McD myself. He's a confident guy, assembled a good assistant staff, kept two key assistants in Bobby Turner and Rick Dennison, the players appear to be buying into his game, all the key players except that dolll-baby Jay are on board.

You keep posting this, but unless I missed it, have yet to post the slightest shred of evidence that it is true. The Shanahan firing was not universally acclaimed and I sincerely doubt that the Cutler trade was approved by the majority of the fans. Again, I'd love to see those polls you're citing.

kmonty
07-13-2009, 08:17 PM
You can download the 15-min mp3 here

http://bit.ly/27oh9b

Lolad
07-13-2009, 08:27 PM
Is it just me or did I read that the OL was not set in stone, even after there play from last year????

DenverBrit
07-13-2009, 08:37 PM
I'd like to know why Pat Bowlen wasted his time by issuing a letter to season ticket holders to be calm and that everything is fine, if everything was good in Colorado as Cito makes it out to be.

I'd like to see that letter.

kmonty
07-13-2009, 08:42 PM
I'd like to see that letter.

4/3/09

Dear Broncos Fan,

I am writing this letter today because I feel compelled to give our community and our fans an explanation regarding the Jay Cutler situation.

One of my directives to Josh McDaniels upon his hiring was that he consider everything possible to return the Broncos to the level which you and I both expect, and this certainly includes making a fair evaluation of every opportunity presented to us which might improve the team. He and General Manager Brian Xanders have had my complete support throughout, and they have it now. It is important that you know that at all times we represented ourselves to Jay with honesty and integrity.

I assure you both Josh and I made repeated attempts to reach out to Jay, and I can not speak for him as to why he chose to limit his response. Ultimately, given his unwillingness to speak with either of us directly in the last 12 days- at the same time his agent clearly stating to us Jay's intentions- it became very apparent to me personally that he no longer wanted to play for the Denver Broncos. As such, we elected to trade him.

Understand this: it remains about team. Our franchise has gone to the Super Bowl six times, with three different coaches and with many different players. It has never been about one player, and it never will be. Coach McDaniels shares this vision, and everyone in the organization-players, coaches and staff-must understand and accept this unconditionally. If anyone does not, that person will not be a part of this franchise.

I am extremely proud of our franchise, its accomplishments, and the region and fans that we represent. We have an illustrious history, one which we are all anxious to add to, and if someone does not wish to be with us as we head in this direction, then we will move on, and move forward.

Over 96% of our season ticket holders have chosen to renew their tickets for the 2009 season. This is once again a compelling statement of support and trust by the greatest fans in the NFL, and I assure you my only goal is and always will be to compete at the highest championship level.

The Denver Broncos will move forward in 2009 as one team, united with the most loyal and passionate fan base in football, towards the only goal we will ever pursue.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and for your understanding and continued support.

Sincerely,

Pat Bowlen

DenverBrit
07-13-2009, 08:46 PM
4/3/09

Dear Broncos Fan,

I am writing this letter today because I feel compelled to give our community and our fans an explanation regarding the Jay Cutler situation.

One of my directives to Josh McDaniels upon his hiring was that he consider everything possible to return the Broncos to the level which you and I both expect, and this certainly includes making a fair evaluation of every opportunity presented to us which might improve the team. He and General Manager Brian Xanders have had my complete support throughout, and they have it now. It is important that you know that at all times we represented ourselves to Jay with honesty and integrity.

I assure you both Josh and I made repeated attempts to reach out to Jay, and I can not speak for him as to why he chose to limit his response. Ultimately, given his unwillingness to speak with either of us directly in the last 12 days- at the same time his agent clearly stating to us Jay's intentions- it became very apparent to me personally that he no longer wanted to play for the Denver Broncos. As such, we elected to trade him.

Understand this: it remains about team. Our franchise has gone to the Super Bowl six times, with three different coaches and with many different players. It has never been about one player, and it never will be. Coach McDaniels shares this vision, and everyone in the organization-players, coaches and staff-must understand and accept this unconditionally. If anyone does not, that person will not be a part of this franchise.

I am extremely proud of our franchise, its accomplishments, and the region and fans that we represent. We have an illustrious history, one which we are all anxious to add to, and if someone does not wish to be with us as we head in this direction, then we will move on, and move forward.

Over 96% of our season ticket holders have chosen to renew their tickets for the 2009 season. This is once again a compelling statement of support and trust by the greatest fans in the NFL, and I assure you my only goal is and always will be to compete at the highest championship level.

The Denver Broncos will move forward in 2009 as one team, united with the most loyal and passionate fan base in football, towards the only goal we will ever pursue.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and for your understanding and continued support.

Sincerely,

Pat Bowlen

Thanks.

Cito Pelon
07-13-2009, 09:03 PM
I'd really love to see some proof of these claims...

Do a search on 'Rock Chalk' as the poster. Alec posted the ESPN polls. It's true.

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 10:01 PM
Yeah I just looked at the numbers and I don't buy it. The Browns likely skew the average down. Maybe if you average the numbers it can appear that way, but you honestly want to tell me that Shanahan's defenses were better than those other coache's? You know they weren't. Their defenses were also more physical and made plays when counted. We had a finesse defense that never seemed to find the second gear in the playoffs. Those other coaches defenses were better and it showed. Like I said, Larry Coyer was the best thing to happen to Shanahan.

Yes, I absolutely do. Stats are fairly un-reliable, but when you have such a broad spectrum like the careers of Dungy, Belicek, Shanahan, Fischer, etc, they become extremely reliable.

In fact, imagine how superior it would've been without being so harshly snake-bitten. What if Al Wilson and Mobley had remained healthy? What if Pryce had stayed healthy? Keep in mind, Trevor caused so much havoc in 2004 vs Indy that he effectively shut down Peyton single handedly.

If you want to fault the defensive side of the ball for anything, here's a legitimate list of gripes:
- The last three seasons (though I do think we would've been in the playoffs EACH year with a healthy Al)
- Being too aggressive via the draft aiming at boom or bust picks

Otherwise, that side of the ball had a decent amount of talent and even more success. Is the training staff to blame for crippling injuries and poor evaluations on collegiate prospects? Maybe, but that's irrelevant. Even with the hand he was dealt, we fielded more competitive defenses than 75% of the BEST DEFENSIVE COACHES in the modern era.

If that doesn't impress you... **** I don't know what will.

montrose
07-13-2009, 10:31 PM
Yes, I absolutely do. Stats are fairly un-reliable, but when you have such a broad spectrum like the careers of Dungy, Belicek, Shanahan, Fischer, etc, they become extremely reliable.

In fact, imagine how superior it would've been without being so harshly snake-bitten. What if Al Wilson and Mobley had remained healthy? What if Pryce had stayed healthy? Keep in mind, Trevor caused so much havoc in 2004 vs Indy that he effectively shut down Peyton single handedly.

If you want to fault the defensive side of the ball for anything, here's a legitimate list of gripes:
- The last three seasons (though I do think we would've been in the playoffs EACH year with a healthy Al)
- Being too aggressive via the draft aiming at boom or bust picks

Otherwise, that side of the ball had a decent amount of talent and even more success. Is the training staff to blame for crippling injuries and poor evaluations on collegiate prospects? Maybe, but that's irrelevant. Even with the hand he was dealt, we fielded more competitive defenses than 75% of the BEST DEFENSIVE COACHES in the modern era.

If that doesn't impress you... **** I don't know what will.

Wow, you really do love Shanny.

SoCalBronco
07-13-2009, 10:33 PM
4/3/09

Dear Broncos Fan,

I am writing this letter today because I feel compelled to give our community and our fans an explanation regarding the Jay Cutler situation.

One of my directives to Josh McDaniels upon his hiring was that he consider everything possible to return the Broncos to the level which you and I both expect, and this certainly includes making a fair evaluation of every opportunity presented to us which might improve the team. He and General Manager Brian Xanders have had my complete support throughout, and they have it now. It is important that you know that at all times we represented ourselves to Jay with honesty and integrity.

I assure you both Josh and I made repeated attempts to reach out to Jay, and I can not speak for him as to why he chose to limit his response. Ultimately, given his unwillingness to speak with either of us directly in the last 12 days- at the same time his agent clearly stating to us Jay's intentions- it became very apparent to me personally that he no longer wanted to play for the Denver Broncos. As such, we elected to trade him.

Understand this: it remains about team. Our franchise has gone to the Super Bowl six times, with three different coaches and with many different players. It has never been about one player, and it never will be. Coach McDaniels shares this vision, and everyone in the organization-players, coaches and staff-must understand and accept this unconditionally. If anyone does not, that person will not be a part of this franchise.

I am extremely proud of our franchise, its accomplishments, and the region and fans that we represent. We have an illustrious history, one which we are all anxious to add to, and if someone does not wish to be with us as we head in this direction, then we will move on, and move forward.

Over 96% of our season ticket holders have chosen to renew their tickets for the 2009 season. This is once again a compelling statement of support and trust by the greatest fans in the NFL, and I assure you my only goal is and always will be to compete at the highest championship level.

The Denver Broncos will move forward in 2009 as one team, united with the most loyal and passionate fan base in football, towards the only goal we will ever pursue.

Thank you for taking the time to read this and for your understanding and continued support.

Sincerely,

Pat Bowlen

Mr. Bowlen's letter and a couple quarters might get me a mediocre cup of coffee.

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 10:34 PM
Wow, you really do love Shanny.

Awesome post. Really added a lot to discussion.

tsiguy96
07-13-2009, 10:39 PM
Is it just me or did I read that the OL was not set in stone, even after there play from last year????

i think, specifically, the LG position. hamilton is really good, but with new coach and everything, if someone else appears to be doing better, they will get the job.

kmonty
07-13-2009, 10:42 PM
Mr. Bowlen's letter and a couple quarters might get me a mediocre cup of coffee.

Either you're saying Bowlen's letter was actually worth something, or you're buying coffee somewhere for 50 cents. Either way, enlighten me.

SoCalBronco
07-13-2009, 10:44 PM
Either you're saying Bowlen's letter was actually worth something, or you're buying coffee somewhere for 50 cents. Either way, enlighten me.

Haha. Well played.

To answer your question.....I can find coffee for 50 cents but its very mediocre.

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 10:47 PM
Haha. Well played.

To answer your question.....I can find coffee for 50 cents but its very mediocre.

Would you say that's a direct reflection of ownership?

^5

SoCalBronco
07-13-2009, 10:50 PM
Would you say that's a direct reflection of ownership?

^5

No. That would be insulting the 50 cent coffee.

Very Mediocre >>>>> Ownership.

Very clever though, Rev. :)

BTW, love the newest version of your avatar. Riding the cobra while its spitting AIDS at our coach is alot cooler than riding an inflatable lobster. :thumbsup:

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 10:56 PM
No. That would be insulting the 50 cent coffee.

Very Mediocre >>>>> Ownership.

Very clever though, Rev. :)

BTW, love the newest version of your avatar. Riding the cobra while its spitting AIDS at our coach is alot cooler than riding an inflatable lobster. :thumbsup:

Obviously coming from someone who's never lept off a waterfall on an inflatable lobster into a pool.

montrose
07-13-2009, 11:17 PM
Awesome post. Really added a lot to discussion.

Long day at work, I'm tired. Hell I started the thread with a detailed interview recap, give me a break.

TheReverend
07-13-2009, 11:23 PM
Long day at work, I'm tired. Hell I started the thread with a detailed interview recap, give me a break.

No worries. Next time just try and toss a little something to talk about in there.

My best response to your previous post: "Yeah........"

watermock
07-14-2009, 01:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheReverend
Shanahan's average defensive ranking is 11. That's very, very good... especially over a 14 year span.

Then maybe you'll find this interesting. Here's the best defensive head coaches in the NFL (our modern HoF candidates) and their career defensive rankings. Bill Belicek (NE only) comes in at a respectable 14. Tony Dungy (IND only) ties Bill at a solid 14 (edging him with decimals). Jeff Fischer (over that SAME 14 year span) is on the verge of being below average with 16 (might even be below average if you weight the years he coached pre-expansion). For those that might think this comparison is bull **** or skewed: Bill Cowher, on the other hand, proved to be dynamite with a career average of SIX! Also important to note, his best seasons WERE with Dick Lebeau as well, but still strong even without him, and hiring a HoF DC shouldn't be held against him (Disclaimer: I don't approve of a Bill Cowher signing)


Yeah I just looked at the numbers and I don't buy it. The Browns likely skew the average down. Maybe if you average the numbers it can appear that way, but you honestly want to tell me that Shanahan's defenses were better than those other coache's? You know they weren't. Their defenses were also more physical and made plays when counted. We had a finesse defense that never seemed to find the second gear in the playoffs. Those other coaches defenses were better and it showed. Like I said, Larry Coyer was the best thing to happen to Shanahan.



Yep, the Browncos skewed the stats.

If you added in post 2005, Shanny's average would of been even better. Talk about speculation!

Broncoman13
07-14-2009, 05:58 AM
* McDaniels is currently on vacation at home but has still be going in and out of Dove Valley. The staff is off until next Wednesday. Has spent his vacation with his wife Laura and kids that just moved to Colorado from the east coast this week. Since McDaniels has taken the job, he's been working 18 hours a day so it was okay that his family wasn't here yet.

* The first seven months of the job were exciting. There are tough decisions to make as an NFL Head Coach. Loves how the locker room is coming together along with a great rookie class. The spring did well to set the tone for what the new Denver Broncos will be.

* The offense is fully installed heading into camp from OTA's. Training camp is all about full-speed hitting and contact as the Broncos will be a very physical football team. Players are always learning and adapting throughout camp but they know what to expect.

* Marshall has been sent his letter with a reporting date and weight as have the other 80 players on the team. Looking forward to having him in camp and making him a big part of the team. Been conversations with his agent, Xanders, Bowlen, Marshall and McDaniels - dialogue continues. McDaniels has a good relationship with Marshall.

* Players determine their roles, they don't want to force any square pegs into round holes. Competition for playing time all season long. Front seven and OL play is all about hitting and being physical at training camp.

* The staff felt comfortable that Orton was clearly the best QB, they had no time frame to name a starter. Simms did some good things too but Orton separated himself from the others. Simms will push Orton because things can always change. McDaniels is very excited about Orton in this offense with the other players.

* You absolutely do not have a record set in your head as the Denver Broncos will expect to win every game they take the field. The team's theme is do things one thing at a time. Can't compare this team to last year's because so much has changed with a new staff and roster. Look at Atlanta, Baltimore and Miami last season - if you don't turn the ball over - you can be successful in the NFL. This is a major theme for the team as they led the league in turnovers last season.

* Moreno will have a shot at starting as will Hillis, Buckhalter, Jordan and Torain once he returns from injury. The backfield is deep and talented. Roles haven't been set yet since there's been no hitting. McDaniels wants it to be difficult for players to win jobs. Moreno's done some good things but still makes rookie mistakes.

* CBS4 will host the Josh McDaniels show on Saturday's, hosted by Lombardi and Miller. They joked about the dress code, McDaniels said Lombardi and Miller can set the dress code but he's not wearing a suit and tie.

* After the interview Lombardi and Miller spoke about McDaniels' passion and how friendly he's been when they've met him. He's the most hands-on coach they've ever seen and this is the most excited the players have ever been at practice. The team has fully bought into McDaniels' message.


The hands on piece has to be a result of his tutelage under Nick Saban. He was always very hands on and in fact fun to watch as a Coach. Not sure if BB is like that as well, but I know for sure I've seen Nick Saban teach and actually demonstrate to CBs the proper way to jam a WR and then turnaround and teach the WRs ways to beat the jam.

vancejohnson82
07-14-2009, 07:58 AM
wow, so people are saying that are defenses have been effective in the last decade....

perhaps you can make it seem that way....but historically our defenses start out fast for the first quarter of the season and then we end up getting crushed down the stretch...I think that comes from having vanilla schemes that arent dynamic, meaning they stay the same week in and week out....that doesnt fall on Shanny but on the guys he hired and perhaps on the players on the field because they werent smart enough to react week to week to new gameplans.

to say that our defenses have been better than Fishers or BB's is ridiculous, in my opinion. Talk about skewed, Fisher had a few BAD teams mixed in there...

oh, and if Dungy's defenses were so bad, how come they consistently won? Great offense, right? And a great QB....then how come we couldnt win last year? I thought that was our MO.

TonyR
07-14-2009, 08:09 AM
wow, so people are saying that are defenses have been effective in the last decade....

perhaps you can make it seem that way....but historically our defenses start out fast for the first quarter of the season and then we end up getting crushed down the stretch...

I'd add that our defenses didn't seem to adjust well in the 2nd halfs of games and they got exposed in the playoffs. The Indy Colts and Pittsburgh Steelers say hello.

montrose
07-14-2009, 09:34 AM
No worries. Next time just try and toss a little something to talk about in there.

My best response to your previous post: "Yeah........"

Gotten some sleep and can actual post intelligently now. As far as the rankings go, are these based on yards or points? Anyhow, one of my frustrations was how the defense would get worse and worse as the season went along (such as in 2006). As far as the players Shanahan picked up that you mentioned, I believe the last one drafted was Wilson in 1999 and acquired was Bailey in 2004 - in a "what have you done for me lately?" league could it be possible that Shanahan simply isn't the coach/evaluator he was a decade ago? I mean, many of your assertions of his success are overall career numbers and not so much of what's going on now. Does this make sense? I love Shanahan for delivering us the two Super Bowls but I have little-to-no confidence in his ability to field a competent defense and that was reinforced by his decision to retain Bob Slowick. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though some may be hanging on to the legacy of Mike Shanahan rather than giving a fair assessment of his abilities right now. Much like a player past his prime, I don't believe this takes away from the greatness of what he accomplished but if I could hire 1996 Mike Shanahan or 2009 Mike Shanahan I'd take the former in a heartbeat.

Gcver2ver3
07-14-2009, 10:02 AM
wow, so people are saying that are defenses have been effective in the last decade....

perhaps you can make it seem that way....but historically our defenses start out fast for the first quarter of the season and then we end up getting crushed down the stretch...


exactly...

TheReverend
07-14-2009, 12:24 PM
Gotten some sleep and can actual post intelligently now. As far as the rankings go, are these based on yards or points? Anyhow, one of my frustrations was how the defense would get worse and worse as the season went along (such as in 2006). As far as the players Shanahan picked up that you mentioned, I believe the last one drafted was Wilson in 1999 and acquired was Bailey in 2004 - in a "what have you done for me lately?" league could it be possible that Shanahan simply isn't the coach/evaluator he was a decade ago? I mean, many of your assertions of his success are overall career numbers and not so much of what's going on now. Does this make sense? I love Shanahan for delivering us the two Super Bowls but I have little-to-no confidence in his ability to field a competent defense and that was reinforced by his decision to retain Bob Slowick. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though some may be hanging on to the legacy of Mike Shanahan rather than giving a fair assessment of his abilities right now. Much like a player past his prime, I don't believe this takes away from the greatness of what he accomplished but if I could hire 1996 Mike Shanahan or 2009 Mike Shanahan I'd take the former in a heartbeat.

There are moves I consider questionable. Namely not giving Bates the required time to fully install his defense. The defensive failings have come in the past 2.5 years. In that time span our best defensive player has been injured every season missing multiple games (Champ), and our second best defensive player broke his neck and is out of football.

But let's play it this way. You get the gift of hindsight. What FAs and draft picks would you have used on defense? And you even get to look BACK to do it knowing which ones pan out.

montrose
07-14-2009, 01:34 PM
There are moves I consider questionable. Namely not giving Bates the required time to fully install his defense. The defensive failings have come in the past 2.5 years. In that time span our best defensive player has been injured every season missing multiple games (Champ), and our second best defensive player broke his neck and is out of football.

First I definitly agree with you on Bates. This speaks to why I was frustrated with Shanahan. Why fire a great DC in Coyer and hire Bates to revamp the defense to a different scheme that will take years to implement in an offseason when you dished out big money to Bly, Graham and Rice indicating you're making a big run (in a season with a 1st year starting QB which makes the situation sound even stupider), then ditch Bates' scheme after five weeks?

As far as Champ and Wilson go, I question how much their health would've improved our defenses. Wilson and Champ were healthy and fine as the Steelers f***ed us up on the AFCCG and were on the field as our defense gave up increased points and worst of all - collapsed at the end of games in 2006. I'm sure losing those guys hurt in 2007 and 2008 but in the case of Wilson, I don't know how much he could've saved Bates' defense with Adams, Burton, Gordon and the other scrubs in front of him. I could've seen him helping more in 2008 but that doesn't change the fact we have no pass rush and teams could pass all over us - which essentially renders Champ next-to-useless.

I'm sure having those guys makes us better but I doubt it keeps us from being a shi**y defense.

But let's play it this way. You get the gift of hindsight. What FAs and draft picks would you have used on defense? And you even get to look BACK to do it knowing which ones pan out.

2000 - Don't trade down with Baltimore and take Shaun Ellis at #10. Use #40 on Kennoy Kennedy and don't draft Ian Gold. Without Gold, Bill Romanowski finishes his career a Bronco and John Mobley is never stupidly moved to SLB.

2001 - Take Kris Jenkins at #24 and Shaun Rogers at #51. Still take Reggie Hayward at #87 (just resign him this time).

2002 - Take Ed Reed at #19 and Alex Brown at #96.

2003 - Take Nnamdi Asomugha at #20, Osi Umenyiora at #51 and Asante Samuel at #108

2004 - Take DJ Williams at #17, Bob Sanders at #41, Darnell Dockett at #54, Shaun Phillips at #85 and Corey Williams at #152

2005 - No trade at #25 and take Marlion Jackson, Darrent Williams at #56, Domonique Foxworth at #97

2006 - Take Chad Greenway at #15, Gabe Watson at #93, Elvis Dumervil at #126

2007 - No trade, take Jon Beason at #21, Victor Abiamiri at #56 and Stewart Bradley at #86

lazarus4444
07-16-2009, 03:16 AM
I'm just hoping our defense gets out of the trash heap and into the top 15 at best or top 20 at worst then i'll be happy....Addition by subtraction...

TheReverend
07-16-2009, 08:45 AM
First I definitly agree with you on Bates. This speaks to why I was frustrated with Shanahan. Why fire a great DC in Coyer and hire Bates to revamp the defense to a different scheme that will take years to implement in an offseason when you dished out big money to Bly, Graham and Rice indicating you're making a big run (in a season with a 1st year starting QB which makes the situation sound even stupider), then ditch Bates' scheme after five weeks?

As far as Champ and Wilson go, I question how much their health would've improved our defenses. Wilson and Champ were healthy and fine as the Steelers ****ed us up on the AFCCG and were on the field as our defense gave up increased points and worst of all - collapsed at the end of games in 2006.

A joke, right? Champ played the AFCCG with that dislocated shoulder and harness (remember the over-his-head INT he couldn't reel in because of it...?). You're also aware that Wilson was playing WITH the injury at the of 2006? It happened when Warren and him collided, after that, team collapse!

I'm sure losing those guys hurt in 2007 and 2008 but in the case of Wilson, I don't know how much he could've saved Bates' defense with Adams, Burton, Gordon and the other scrubs in front of him. I could've seen him helping more in 2008 but that doesn't change the fact we have no pass rush and teams could pass all over us - which essentially renders Champ next-to-useless.

I do. He could've saved it as much as he did with Montsanto Pope and Mario Fatafehi in front of him... and Champ's picked off double digit balls with no pass rush before, so far from useless.

2000 - Don't trade down with Baltimore and take Shaun Ellis at #10. Use #40 on Kennoy Kennedy and don't draft Ian Gold. Without Gold, Bill Romanowski finishes his career a Bronco and John Mobley is never stupidly moved to SLB.

2001 - Take Kris Jenkins at #24 and Shaun Rogers at #51. Still take Reggie Hayward at #87 (just resign him this time).

2002 - Take Ed Reed at #19 and Alex Brown at #96.

2003 - Take Nnamdi Asomugha at #20, Osi Umenyiora at #51 and Asante Samuel at #108

2004 - Take DJ Williams at #17, Bob Sanders at #41, Darnell Dockett at #54, Shaun Phillips at #85 and Corey Williams at #152

2005 - No trade at #25 and take Marlion Jackson, Darrent Williams at #56, Domonique Foxworth at #97

2006 - Take Chad Greenway at #15, Gabe Watson at #93, Elvis Dumervil at #126

2007 - No trade, take Jon Beason at #21, Victor Abiamiri at #56 and Stewart Bradley at #86

I meant a little more recently. Restructuring the entire decade of drafts is a little silly. Especially when: in 05' you basically make the same selections. In 06' where does pick 93 come from? StL gets that pick from GB, or do you have some unlisted intricate trade?

montrose
07-16-2009, 12:14 PM
A joke, right? Champ played the AFCCG with that dislocated shoulder and harness (remember the over-his-head INT he couldn't reel in because of it...?). You're also aware that Wilson was playing WITH the injury at the of 2006? It happened when Warren and him collided, after that, team collapse!

I had forgotten about Champ's shoulder, although it didn't seem to hinder him from having one of the best CB seasons in league history. Regardless, I'm not sure Champ's health had much to do with Cedric Wilson and Antwan Randel El ****ing us up. I also remember Wilson's injury, I was at the Seattle game. You won't get any argument from me about the abilities of one of my all-time favorites but if our defense was so dependent on the presence of one MLB, I feel like that's a problem in itself.

I do. He could've saved it as much as he did with Montsanto Pope and Mario Fatafehi in front of him... and Champ's picked off double digit balls with no pass rush before, so far from useless.

Again, I think those guys would help I just don't think they could save the defense from sucking - especially in 2007 as, again, Shanahan foolishly gave Bates a whopping five games to implement his system without the right players. I do agree with your statement on Champ as I had forgotten about 2006 when he was picking off balls with Shanny's god awful defense front.

I meant a little more recently. Restructuring the entire decade of drafts is a little silly. Especially when: in 05' you basically make the same selections. In 06' where does pick 93 come from? StL gets that pick from GB, or do you have some unlisted intricate trade?

I thought (may be wrong) that #93 in 2006 was sent to StL in the Cutler deal which in that instance I wouldn't do. I digress, as far as recently I would have:

1) Never fired Larry Coyer
2) Gotten better defensive position coaches to better develop players
3) Never resigned Ian Gold and either used a draft pick or FA money on a true SLB while leaving DJ at WLB
4) Never released Trevor Pryce
5) Resigned Kennoy Kennedy
6) Picked up a true NT to play next to Gerard Warren instead of Michael Myers
7) Keep the two 1st rounders we had at one point in 2006 and take two defensive players (maybe Lawson and Cromartie or Hali?)
8) Not moved up for Jarvis Moss or taken Tim Crowder in 2007 and instead take Beason or Griffin in round 1 and maybe Abirarmi in round 2.

Gcver2ver3
07-16-2009, 12:30 PM
1) Never fired Larry Coyer


i disagree...his scheme's became overmatched by opposing OCs...


2) Gotten better defensive position coaches to better develop players

for sure...

3) Never resigned Ian Gold and either used a draft pick or FA money on a true SLB while leaving DJ at WLB

excellent point...

4) Never released Trevor Pryce

agree wholeheartedly...

5) Resigned Kennoy Kennedy

does that also mean don't sign Lynch?

6) Picked up a true NT to play next to Gerard Warren instead of Michael Myers

yea...good call
7) Keep the two 1st rounders we had at one point in 2006 and take two defensive players (maybe Lawson and Cromartie or Hali?)

not sure that helps us much...i wanted Bunkley instead of Cutler though...

8) Not moved up for Jarvis Moss or taken Tim Crowder in 2007 and instead take Beason or Griffin in round 1 and maybe Abirarmi in round 2.

that would've certainly been a better move...

vancejohnson82
07-16-2009, 12:36 PM
I had forgotten about Champ's shoulder, although it didn't seem to hinder him from having one of the best CB seasons in league history. Regardless, I'm not sure Champ's health had much to do with Cedric Wilson and Antwan Randel El ****ing us up. I also remember Wilson's injury, I was at the Seattle game. You won't get any argument from me about the abilities of one of my all-time favorites but if our defense was so dependent on the presence of one MLB, I feel like that's a problem in itself.



Again, I think those guys would help I just don't think they could save the defense from sucking - especially in 2007 as, again, Shanahan foolishly gave Bates a whopping five games to implement his system without the right players. I do agree with your statement on Champ as I had forgotten about 2006 when he was picking off balls with Shanny's god awful defense front.



I thought (may be wrong) that #93 in 2006 was sent to StL in the Cutler deal which in that instance I wouldn't do. I digress, as far as recently I would have:

1) Never fired Larry Coyer
2) Gotten better defensive position coaches to better develop players
3) Never resigned Ian Gold and either used a draft pick or FA money on a true SLB while leaving DJ at WLB
4) Never released Trevor Pryce
5) Resigned Kennoy Kennedy
6) Picked up a true NT to play next to Gerard Warren instead of Michael Myers
7) Keep the two 1st rounders we had at one point in 2006 and take two defensive players (maybe Lawson and Cromartie or Hali?)8) Not moved up for Jarvis Moss or taken Tim Crowder in 2007 and instead take Beason or Griffin in round 1 and maybe Abirarmi in round 2.

The points I bolded I don't have issues with because they all would have been the "correct" moves....Shanny however, thought we were one or two players from winning the Super Bowl every year....thats why he was content with Gold, never made an over the top offer to Pryce and moved up for Moss.

Kennedy was let go because LYnch came in, correct? I thought they were both SS.....in that case, I was happy with LYnch's play while he was here.

All of those moves seemed right at the time because we were "so close"....he thought the Cutler move was going to be the one that put us over the top, same can be said for the Henry signing and you can even go back to the Bailey trade and say the same thing. The problem with this approach is that you are plugging one hole here or there while others spring up....so while we were looking for quick fixes we were ignoring future issues that were sure to come up...for example the defensive line and for the longest time we couldnt get lucky with WRs....it was just his way of personnel management adn eventually it caught up with the franchise

TheReverend
07-16-2009, 01:35 PM
1) Never fired Larry Coyer
2) Gotten better defensive position coaches to better develop players
3) Never resigned Ian Gold and either used a draft pick or FA money on a true SLB while leaving DJ at WLB
4) Never released Trevor Pryce
5) Resigned Kennoy Kennedy
6) Picked up a true NT to play next to Gerard Warren instead of Michael Myers
7) Keep the two 1st rounders we had at one point in 2006 and take two defensive players (maybe Lawson and Cromartie or Hali?)
8) Not moved up for Jarvis Moss or taken Tim Crowder in 2007 and instead take Beason or Griffin in round 1 and maybe Abirarmi in round 2.

Good list. I only disagree with #7, part of #8, and #1 would still be fine with me had we been patient with Bates.

Abiamiri in round 2... you realize that in 2 seasons he has 14 tackles total and 2 sacks with only start due to injury, and not slated to start this coming season? Meanwhile, the guy you're having him replace put up 17 tackles and 4 sacks in his rookie season, is 20 lbs bigger, and is slated to start this season. I'm far from high on Tim Crowder, but Abiamiri...?

What NT are you referencing in #6?

Beason's nice, but he'd have huge shoes to fill in Al's shadow. Is he enough?

Oh, and we still have Jake Plummer throwing the football.

montrose
07-16-2009, 09:38 PM
i disagree...his scheme's became overmatched by opposing OCs...
I never felt that way, I think he did the best he could with the crap talent we had up front. I think he'll do a great job for the Colts with their DL.

does that also mean don't sign Lynch?
No, Lynch and Kennedy played together in 2004 when many thought Kennedy deserved to go to the Pro Bowl instead of Lynch. We let Kennedy walk via FA to the Lions.

not sure that helps us much...i wanted Bunkley instead of Cutler though...
I would've been down with Bunkley too. The second we moved up for Cutler, we threw away a team that was a game away from the Super Bowl - and haven't been to the playoffs since.

The points I bolded I don't have issues with because they all would have been the "correct" moves....Shanny however, thought we were one or two players from winning the Super Bowl every year....thats why he was content with Gold, never made an over the top offer to Pryce and moved up for Moss.
This was one of my problems with Shanahan. He had to "go for it" every year and through those moves made the team worse in the long run. I find it funny when people complain about Bowlen firing Shanahan since the last few seasons were "rebuilding" years when Shanahan himself never said that and the money he dished out to Walker, Warren, Henry, Graham, Bly, Rice, Colbert and Koutouvides says otherwise.

Kennedy was let go because LYnch came in, correct? I thought they were both SS.....in that case, I was happy with LYnch's play while he was here.
They played together in 2004, we let Kennedy go because Shanahan thought we could make do with Ferguson who was competent but not nearly as talented as Kennedy (or Brandon for that matter).

All of those moves seemed right at the time because we were "so close"....
I'm glad you put "so close" into quotes because other than 2005 we haven't been close at all since we won SB33.

he thought the Cutler move was going to be the one that put us over the top,
If Shanahan honestly thought a rookie or 2nd year QB was going to put the team over the top then I'd lose respect for all-time favorite coach. I forever will see the Cutler pick as Shanahan's way of saying "I've taken this team as far as I can, time to start over." Which again seems funny considering the money dished out.

same can be said for the Henry signing
I never gave a sh*t what players are like personally as long as it didn't effect the team but this guy has changed my view on that. I hope that the strongest character of any locker room in the NFL. As far as Henry being a "final piece" - again, in Cutler's 2nd season? I'll never understand why Shanahan spent so much of Bowlen's money in 2006 and 2007.

The problem with this approach is that you are plugging one hole here or there while others spring up....so while we were looking for quick fixes we were ignoring future issues that were sure to come up...for example the defensive line and for the longest time we couldnt get lucky with WRs....it was just his way of personnel management adn eventually it caught up with the franchise
Good points.

Good list. I only disagree with #7, part of #8, and #1 would still be fine with me had we been patient with Bates.
I agree with being patient with Bates, he should've gotten 2-3 years minimum.

Abiamiri in round 2... you realize that in 2 seasons he has 14 tackles total and 2 sacks with only start due to injury, and not slated to start this coming season? Meanwhile, the guy you're having him replace put up 17 tackles and 4 sacks in his rookie season, is 20 lbs bigger, and is slated to start this season. I'm far from high on Tim Crowder, but Abiamiri...?
I have a minor man-crush on Abiamiri because every time I've seen him play he has a high motor and seems like a really talented guy, just seemed to have trouble getting on the field over the Eagles strong DE-corps. Almost reminds me of Justin Tuck (not in ability, just situation) around 2006 or so.

What NT are you referencing in #6?
I dunno, maybe Rogers or Jenkins? Over the past decade of free agency and the draft, there had to be at least one NT worth making a move on.

Beason's nice, but he'd have huge shoes to fill in Al's shadow. Is he enough?
I think so. Statistically, Beason's had better seasons than Al did I believe. I don't much in terms of his leadership ability, but I think he'd been a hell of a better option than Koutouvides or Webster.

Oh, and we still have Jake Plummer throwing the football.
I'd be fine with that. Shanahan crushed his confidence in drafting Cutler, you can tell it still bothers him in that Lombardi interview. Regardless, I loved watching Jake play and the 2005 Broncos will always hold a place near and dear to my heart.