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View Full Version : Gaffney lining up as starter in Denver


Slade
07-11-2009, 09:25 AM
Broncos fans still reeling from the loss of Jay Cutler are now living in fear that the organization will trade Pro Bowl receiver Brandon Marshall.

That Jabar Gaffney has been the man replacing Marshall throughout offseason practices probably won't make them feel any better.

Gaffney, not Mike Shanahan holdover Brandon Stokley, looks poised to be the third man in Denver's wideout rotation if Marshall does return to the team. (Eddie Royal will also start.)

After spending three years in New England with Josh McDaniels, Gaffney knows the offensive system. After watching Gaffney for his seven year career, NFL observers know he's hardly a gamebreaker. (He's topped 500 receiving yards once.)

Gaffney was one of McDaniels' first signings in Denver and can be a useful role player. He appears well ahead of other castoff options like Chad Jackson and Brandon Lloyd on the Denver roster.

Still, asking him to replace Marshall would be asking for a mediocre passing game. And a lot of angry Broncos fans.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/11/gaffney-lining-up-as-starter-in-denver/

Slade
07-11-2009, 09:29 AM
IMO Gaffney=Stokley, but is a lot younger and already knows the system. They should both get playing time though in this offense regardless of if BM is in orange and blue or not.

Kaylore
07-11-2009, 09:29 AM
Three years ago, Stokley. Now, I'm not sure about that. Stokley is 33 and has had an Achilles injury. There isn't a whole lot left in those tanks. His game has always been speed and quickness and the team has had keep reducing is reps to keep him healthy. I would pencil him in on my "surprise" cuts list at the end of camp.

Slade
07-11-2009, 09:31 AM
If next year someone has to give us a 1st and a third for BM (resistricted FA with a 1st round tender), what does that equate to today using the draft value chart? A 2nd and a 4th? Or only a 1st?

Kaylore
07-11-2009, 09:31 AM
By the way, your poll is pretty unfair. On who is better you have

Stokley > Gaffney
the same
Stokley

Did you intend to make it impossible to pick Gaffney as superior?

tsiguy96
07-11-2009, 09:32 AM
they play diff positions. this is assuming the starting lineup only has 2 WR, i think a very high % of pats plays are in 3wr so its a pointless argument.

Slade
07-11-2009, 09:33 AM
By the way, your poll is pretty unfair. On who is better you have

Stokley > Gaffney
the same
Stokley

Did you intend to make it impossible to pick Gaffney as superior?

Oops! How do I fix the poll? Do I have to delete the tread and repost?

Slade
07-11-2009, 09:34 AM
they play diff positions. this is assuming the starting lineup only has 2 WR, i think a very high % of pats plays are in 3wr so its a pointless argument.

I was assuming the both were in the slot. Isn't that what Gaffney played for the pats with Moss and Welker?

tsiguy96
07-11-2009, 09:36 AM
I was assuming the both were in te slot. Isn't that what Gaffney played for the pats with Moss and Welker?

all this gaffney as starter stuff assumes that marshall has been traded, the gazette paper which sparked pft and rotoworld to make reports as gaffney starting. i thought gaffney was coming in as the 4th receiver leaving stokely in the slot and royal on his 5 yard crossing route that he will get thrown to 10000 times this year.

gyldenlove
07-11-2009, 09:38 AM
Gaffney is a better fit as a starter across from Royal. Having two sup-6' WRs is not optimal for a short passing game, so Gaffney is a better fit even if his hands and route running is not as good Stokleys.

Kaylore
07-11-2009, 09:40 AM
Oops! How do I fix the poll? Do I have to delete the tread and repost?

There are only two options: Make new thread or enlist the support of a mod.

rovolution
07-11-2009, 09:40 AM
I was assuming the both were in the slot. Isn't that what Gaffney played for the pats with Moss and Welker?

Gaffney was outside. Welker was in the slot. NE base formation is a 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB set.

Kaylore
07-11-2009, 09:43 AM
Gaffney was outside. Welker was in the slot. NE base formation is a 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB set.

Except that every receiver plays every position and is moved around. There are no "pure" slot guys in this offense. Even Welker plays outside quite a bit.

Slade
07-11-2009, 09:43 AM
Gaffney was outside. Welker was in the slot. NE base formation is a 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB set.

So the plan assumng BM stays here is to have Royal in the slot like Welker?

yerner
07-11-2009, 09:55 AM
gaffney blows. this is just depressing.

TheDave
07-11-2009, 09:57 AM
I'm OK with Gaffney as a 3rd. He knows the system and is younger than Stokely. On top of that a 4 wide set of Bmarsh, Royal, Gaffney, and Stokely with Hillis or Moreno testing the flats is a massive problem for an opposing defense.

Let's just hope he isn't a replacement for Marshall...

Slade
07-11-2009, 10:03 AM
I'm OK with Gaffney as a 3rd. He knows the system and is younger than Stokely. On top of that a 4 wide set of Bmarsh, Royal, Gaffney, and Stokely with Hillis or Moreno testing the flats is a massive problem for an opposing defense.

Let's just hope he isn't a replacement for Marshall...

We have so many weapons to throw to now it is kinda scary...BM, Royal, Gaffney, Stokley, Sheffler, Hillis, Moreno. It will be interesting to see what kind of formations we will useto take advantage of this. I know that McD likes a big TE, but Sheff is a weapon! We have 7 weapons and only 5 spots...

Hercules Rockefeller
07-11-2009, 10:14 AM
If next year someone has to give us a 1st and a third for BM (resistricted FA with a 1st round tender), what does that equate to today using the draft value chart? A 2nd and a 4th? Or only a 1st?

Well since the '09 draft has already passed us, and that 1st and 3rd would be in the next draft in '10, I'm guessing it would equate out to a 1st and 3rd per the draft pick value chart.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-11-2009, 10:21 AM
Another quality post from PFT.

Marshall is holding out and so the guy who knows the system the best is lining up as a starter before camp starts. That is just incredible reporting right there. I'm sure when NBC execs read stuff like that, they just hear the cash register ring because of the ROI.

Bronco fans would be angry that Gaffney starts? No ****? The analysis there is just so deep.

Marshall, Royal, Stokley, Gaffney, Lloyd + whoever else they want to keep- one of the best WR corps in the NFL

Royal, Gaffney, Stokley, Lloyd + whoever else they keep- not one of the best WR corps in the NFL

After looking at that, I have no clue why Broncos fans would be angry that Gaffney is the starter.

ColoradoDarin
07-11-2009, 10:23 AM
Stokley is better, but he can't play as much, certainly not as a #1 or a #2 - witness his decline in production when he was forced into that role in 2007 when Rod was done and all we had was Marshall.

Popps
07-11-2009, 10:33 AM
Gaffney has been a nice #3 option for NE. He'll amount to something similar for us. It'll be nice to have someone experienced in the system out there. That said, I think Stokley will also be effective, depending on his health.

As I've reminded people before, this system is less about one "star" receiver and more about distribution and options for the QB. NE won Superbowls before they had Welker/Moss.... and they won them with receivers like Troy Brown and Dion Branch.

I expect that the batch of WRs we have will do very nicely... better with Marshall, but still very well without him.

elsid13
07-11-2009, 10:55 AM
I wouldn't be surprised if Stokely is cut come training camp. Remember they wanted Anderson from Houston.

worm
07-11-2009, 10:57 AM
I want to see McKinley emerge as the #3 by the end of the year.

Popps
07-11-2009, 10:59 AM
They're playing the Pats/Raiders AFFCG on NFLN right now.

Check the winning FG drive. Features the biggest plays by JR Redmond and Jermain Wiggins. The prior drive featured its biggest plays by David Patten and of course, Kevin Faulk.

This offense gets the ball in a lot of hands, folks. Having talented WRs is a must, but like our running game under Shanahan, the theory with this offense is that it can work (to some degree) without mega-stars at every receiver spot.

Again, it's about distribution and options for the QB.

Slade
07-11-2009, 11:01 AM
I want to see McKinley emerge as the #3 by the end of the year.

I think that is the dream. Gaffney, Jackson, and Llyod are all stop gaps.

Kaylore
07-11-2009, 11:03 AM
I want to see McKinley emerge as the #3 by the end of the year.

As nice as that would be, I have very little faith in Spurrier wide receivers. He also needs to bulk up quite a bit.

Slade
07-11-2009, 11:03 AM
They're playing the Pats/Raiders AFFCG on NFLN right now.

Check the winning FG drive. Features the biggest plays by JR Redmond and Jermain Wiggins. The prior drive featured its biggest plays by David Patten and of course, Kevin Faulk.



I remeber JR Redmon in college at ASU. He was such a huge disappointment. He was a heisman hopeful, but couldn't hold on to the ball t save his life!

Gcver2ver3
07-11-2009, 11:19 AM
i think Gaffney is the better...

that option isn't available on the poll...

SoCalBronco
07-11-2009, 11:37 AM
I'd rather have Mark Gaffney starting than Jaburglar Gaffney.

worm
07-11-2009, 11:37 AM
As nice as that would be, I have very little faith in Spurrier wide receivers. He also needs to bulk up quite a bit.

Gaffney is a Spurrier wide receiver.

DBroncos4life
07-11-2009, 11:44 AM
Well there wasn't a drop off when we traded Cutler and got Orton, so I'm guessing there isn't going to be a drop off when Gaffney starts over Marshall. I'm waiting for the spin job on this. Hilarious!

Northman
07-11-2009, 11:46 AM
Gaffney>Marshall

cmhargrove
07-11-2009, 12:18 PM
It's a little to early to speculate on the WR roles, but if Marshall doesn't pan out, I see Royal as #1, Gaffney as #2, and Stokely in the slot at #3. Stokely is a master of the slot, but below average at wideout.

That's a step back without Marshall, however, when you add in Scheffler and Hillis at the TE/X back position, and guys like Moreno and Buckhalter catching out of the backfield - that puts tremendous pressure on the defense.

One step back in the WR corps, but maybe more receiving weapons on the field (in total). I think we'll be ok.

oubronco
07-11-2009, 12:24 PM
Gaffney>Marshall

ROFL! your kinding right

Northman
07-11-2009, 12:25 PM
ROFL! your kinding right

What gave you that idea?

Popps
07-11-2009, 01:24 PM
Remember, 4 and 5 receivers will be a regular scenario. Both guys will get plenty of looks.

Glad we have both. There's really no competition, so much as what is the best way to use them both.

strafen
07-11-2009, 01:41 PM
I don't think many of us have seen enough of Gaffney play to really make an educated guess
I know I haven't, but I've seen Stokley play enough to give him my vote based on the fact that he's been one of the best receivers in the NFL for many years now...

chadta
07-11-2009, 02:00 PM
who cares, were gonna be running 3 tight end sets with hillis and moreno in the backfeild, we dont need no stinkin receivers

Kaylore
07-11-2009, 02:12 PM
Gaffney is a Spurrier wide receiver.

I know. And he's one of the "successful" ones.

listopencil
07-11-2009, 07:09 PM
who cares, were gonna be running 3 tight end sets with hillis and moreno in the backfeild, we dont need no stinkin receivers

Eddie Royal in the 1WR set.

montrose
07-11-2009, 08:40 PM
Gaffney has been a nice #3 option for NE. He'll amount to something similar for us. It'll be nice to have someone experienced in the system out there. That said, I think Stokley will also be effective, depending on his health.

As I've reminded people before, this system is less about one "star" receiver and more about distribution and options for the QB. NE won Superbowls before they had Welker/Moss.... and they won them with receivers like Troy Brown and Dion Branch.

I expect that the batch of WRs we have will do very nicely... better with Marshall, but still very well without him.

They're playing the Pats/Raiders AFFCG on NFLN right now.

Check the winning FG drive. Features the biggest plays by JR Redmond and Jermain Wiggins. The prior drive featured its biggest plays by David Patten and of course, Kevin Faulk.

This offense gets the ball in a lot of hands, folks. Having talented WRs is a must, but like our running game under Shanahan, the theory with this offense is that it can work (to some degree) without mega-stars at every receiver spot.

Again, it's about distribution and options for the QB.

Great points Popps, I've posted a few times that I expect our offense to be ran very similarly to the one that McDaniels coordinated in 2006 for the Patriots. They spread the ball around to several non-star WRs in Reche Caldwell, Troy Brown, Doug Gabriel, Chad Jackson and Gaffney along with Ben Watson and Dan Graham from the TE position and Laurence Maroney and Corey Dillon out of the backfield to the tune over 3,500 yards receiving. They had near 50/50 run-to-pass balance with Maroney and Dillon totalling over 1,500 yards rushing. Their offense finished 7th in scoring (that stat that matters) and they went to the AFCCG.

I could see a very similar output with our personnel at the WR corps (Royal, Stokley, Gaffney, Lloyd, Jackson) and in the backfield (Moreno, Hillis, Buckhalter, Jordan). Having a focused and healthy Marshall would be like a cherry on top. If he returns to his 2007 YAC-ability, I could see Orton to Marshall being a nice little combination.

Spreading the ball around is imperative in this offense that very heavily depends on proper route running. If these guys can get their timing down with Orton and work hard on their pass patterns, I believe our offense will finish much better than 16th this season. Royal and Stokley run excellent routes and Gaffney was looking very comfortable in the Patriots offense last season. Does he have a lot of ability? No. But he runs good routes, blocks and has dependable hands. I'm intrigued by Lloyd as watching some Bears games from last season, he and Orton have a nice chemistry. If Lloyd could get more consistent and improve those pass patterns, I think he could contribute. Kaylore and I disagree a bit on Chad Jackson as I think he's a bit of a sleeper for us. Not so much to be a big-time player, but if he's recovered fully from his knee injury, he does know this offense well and could be a big play threat a few times this season. If you remember his catch-and-run against the Jets last year, he has some explosiveness left and with his experience in the offense - I'm glad he'll be competing at camp. Overall, I'd love to see Marshall out there this season but if he's not, I don't think it's the end of the world.

Punisher
07-11-2009, 09:09 PM
I think that is the dream. Gaffney, Jackson, and Llyod are all stop gaps.

That will be cool

Popps
07-11-2009, 09:33 PM
Nice round-up, Montrose.

Just a guess, here... but I think McDaniels might see Lloyd as poor man's Randy Moss in that he's a guy that can use his speed and ability to beat defenders when the ball is in the air.

If Lloyd sticks around, and I think he will... I think we'll be seeing a couple of deep balls go his way every game.

Popps
07-11-2009, 09:51 PM
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worm
07-11-2009, 11:58 PM
I am shocked that there was 2:54 of pro highlights for Lloyd

Bob's your Information Minister
07-11-2009, 11:59 PM
Matt Cassel made Gaffney look good last year.

montrose
07-12-2009, 04:06 AM
Matt Cassel made Gaffney look good last year.

You won't get much of an argument from me on that. After studying every offensive snap of the Patriots last season, Cassel got better and better as the season went along. The Chiefs got themselves a hell of a QB and it isn't hard to see why McDaniels was interested in upgrading to him from Cutler.

Br0nc0Buster
07-12-2009, 07:18 AM
You won't get much of an argument from me on that. After studying every offensive snap of the Patriots last season, Cassel got better and better as the season went along. The Chiefs got themselves a hell of a QB and it isn't hard to see why McDaniels was interested in upgrading to him from Cutler.

Not to turn this into a Cassel discussion, but I am surprised to see someone that high on Cassel

I havent seen every snap, so I am not going to act like I know more about his mechanics, but the guy got sacked 47 times on the same line that Tom Brady had the best statistical season for a qb with.
Granted he hadnt played since highschool, but what is gonna happen when he goes to a team whose offensive line is nowhere near as good as the one that gave up 47 sacks?

Cassel reminds me a lot of Orton actually, I think both players can do well in systems with talent, but I dont think either can carry a team so to speak, especially bad ones

Blueflame
07-12-2009, 10:45 AM
Let's wait to anoint Cassel as the "next Joe Montana" until after we've seen how he performs behind the Chefs' Swiss cheese O-line.... ::)

Popps
07-12-2009, 11:30 AM
Cassel reminds me a lot of Orton actually, I think both players can do well in systems with talent, but I dont think either can carry a team so to speak, especially bad ones

I'm guessing McDaniels feels the same as you do.

montrose
07-12-2009, 08:54 PM
Not to turn this into a Cassel discussion, but I am surprised to see someone that high on Cassel

I havent seen every snap, so I am not going to act like I know more about his mechanics, but the guy got sacked 47 times on the same line that Tom Brady had the best statistical season for a qb with.
Granted he hadnt played since highschool, but what is gonna happen when he goes to a team whose offensive line is nowhere near as good as the one that gave up 47 sacks?

Cassel reminds me a lot of Orton actually, I think both players can do well in systems with talent, but I dont think either can carry a team so to speak, especially bad ones

Cassel got better and better as the season went on. He took a lot of sacks early, but the Pats OL was not as good as it was in 2007 and the guy was seeing his first live action since high school. Furthermore, it was obvious that Cassel was going to eat a sack rather than make a risky throw that could be intercepted. The end result? Only 11 interceptions in over 500 attempts, a fantastic percentage for an 11-5 football team that, IMO, would've done serious damage had they gotten into the playoffs on that tiebreaker.

By years end, Cassel was playing awesome. He only threw four interceptions in the season's final eight games as the Pats went 6-2. Now I'm hopeful that he sucks in KC as their a division rival but to these eyes, Cassel is a tremendous QB that plays winning-style football (doesn't turn the ball over, understands game situations, moves the chains, etc.) and may get even better. For me, it remains to be seen if Orton can play at his level. Orton's style is similar, but he's less athletic than Cassel without as strong of an arm. We'll have to see how things play out but if Cassel can continue his progression under Todd Haley, yikes.