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View Full Version : What if Kyle Orton got extended early?


Kaylore
07-09-2009, 08:38 PM
Just wondering here, but let's suppose the rumors we're hearing locally and from those "in the know" are really true and that Orton has performed so well in preseason that they decide they don't want him to hit RFAgency and instead try to sign him early?

I wonder what the reaction would be? Before you freak out, understand that Xanders was one of the guys who spearheaded getting DJ signed early, so there are guys in the front office who have a sort of precedent of doing this.

I also would love to see the meltdown that would occur if Orton was extended before Brandon Marshall, which could happen if they like him enough.

Thoughts? Tantrums?

BroncoMan4ever
07-09-2009, 08:40 PM
i will not be surprised at all to see Orton get extended by midseason

maher_tyler
07-09-2009, 08:41 PM
Just wondering here, but let's suppose the rumors we're hearing locally and from those "in the know" are really true and that Orton has performed so well in preseason that they decide they don't want him to hit RFAgency and instead try to sign him early?

I wonder what the reaction would be? Before you freak out, understand that Xanders was one of the guys who spearheaded getting DJ signed early, so there are guys in the front office who have a sort of precedent of doing this.

I also would love to see the meltdown that would occur if Orton was extended before Brandon Marshall, which could happen if they like him enough.

Thoughts? Tantrums?

I'd be upset but what can I do about it...i'd rather wait at least 6-7 weeks into the season to see how he performs when it matters. Pre-season is pretty vanilla!!

Hamrob
07-09-2009, 08:46 PM
I hope not. At the same time...I hope he does well...but he reminds me of a slow Jake Plummer.

I think he will do really well...until the games are on the line and we desparately need to score...or on 3rd downs when we need to keep the chains moving.

I could be wrong. I certainly have been before.

tsiguy96
07-09-2009, 09:05 PM
I hope not. At the same time...I hope he does well...but he reminds me of a slow Jake Plummer.

I think he will do really well...until the games are on the line and we desparately need to score...or on 3rd downs when we need to keep the chains moving.

I could be wrong. I certainly have been before.

our last QB choked a lot on this situations too :afro:

TheReverend
07-09-2009, 09:10 PM
Realistically, it wouldn't be SO early that we wouldn't have seen him play in live regular season action.

Neither the FO (well... maybe this new FO :) ), nor his agent would allow it.

So, if he's playing well and deserves it, sure bring it on on the cheap.

Naturally, I think the odds of that happening are the same as us reading the phrase "JT O'Sullivan named League MVP", but both would be kinda cool...

24champ
07-09-2009, 09:13 PM
Orton= stopgap QB.

I agree with TheRev, he isn't getting extended unless he comes cheap.

Dudeskey
07-09-2009, 09:19 PM
IMO, depends on the CBA situation...™

watermock
07-09-2009, 09:21 PM
Why not?

We're paying Orton and Simms 3x as much as Cutler as it is.

Oh yeah, it was all about a new contract...

SoCalBronco
07-09-2009, 09:23 PM
It would suck. I don't want to think about Orton being the long term QB, here. We can do alot better.

Broncojef
07-09-2009, 09:24 PM
I think Orton under McDaniels schemes and the Broncos weapons will not only be successful but will thrive. The Broncos clicked with Shanahan and Elway because they were a team first and foremost and talked things over as friends with respect. The whole extension thing will come down to Orton's raport with McDaniels and if he considers him the man he needs long term. mcDaniels is surrounding himself with guys he knows can be molded into team guys instead of just talent with no heart and no team focus. Could be wrong but I think by midseason we'll be hoping he is tied up long term.

summerdenver
07-09-2009, 09:44 PM
I don't think it will happen but if it did then it is good sign for Broncos. It means that Orton is doing well in the system and we will be set for a while.

Popps
07-09-2009, 09:48 PM
Orton gets extended?

Great. Wouldn't be done without good reason. If he's extended, it likely means he's made a great impression on the staff.

He was a winner with less talent around him in Chicago and not much offensive coaching. I'm excited to see what he can do in a better situation, offensively.

theAPAOps5
07-09-2009, 09:57 PM
I hope not. At the same time...I hope he does well...but he reminds me of a slow Jake Plummer.

I think he will do really well...until the games are on the line and we desparately need to score...or on 3rd downs when we need to keep the chains moving.

I could be wrong. I certainly have been before.

You realize that our last QB was a choke artist when it mattered right? Cutler was horrid in the red zone. While Orton was one of the best in the Red Zone. So I would really like to see what you are basing your theory on that he will choke on 3rd down and scoring situations.

Keep in mind he had one of the worse lines and WR corps in football while drunk boy Cutler had one of the best.

Just curious is all. I would take a grown up sober Cutler any day over Orton but I don't think that will ever happen.

atomicbloke
07-09-2009, 10:19 PM
You realize that our last QB was a choke artist when it mattered right? Cutler was horrid in the red zone. While Orton was one of the best in the Red Zone. So I would really like to see what you are basing your theory on that he will choke on 3rd down and scoring situations.

Keep in mind he had one of the worse lines and WR corps in football while drunk boy Cutler had one of the best.

Just curious is all. I would take a grown up sober Cutler any day over Orton but I don't think that will ever happen.

Did you watch the Cleveland game last season?

Did you watch the Atlanta game?

Do you think with a back like Moreno or a healthy Hillis, Cutler would still be forced to risk red zone INTs like the ones against Buffalo?

The problem with making deductions solely through reading statistics on paper is that they fail to capture the underlying game situations and other invariables that influence the outcome much more than mere statistics..

tsiguy96
07-09-2009, 10:21 PM
Did you watch the Cleveland game last season?

Did you watch the Atlanta game?

Do you think with a back like Moreno or a healthy Hillis, Cutler would still be forced to risk red zone INTs like the ones against Buffalo?

he wasnt "forced" to risk many of his interceptions, he FORCED them himself.
its not all his fault, he should never have been given the entire team on his back or allowed to throw that many times given how good the running game was going regardless of who was back there, but still.

Popps
07-09-2009, 10:59 PM
Do you think with a back like Moreno or a healthy Hillis, Cutler would still be forced to risk red zone INTs like the ones against Buffalo?.

There's truth in what you're saying, no question. When Jay was asked to sit back in the offense... make some plays and let the offense work as a whole, he played his best football.

The problem came when Jay tried to win games by himself. Forced to, or not... he had great difficulty doing so, which is why the Elway comparisons are idiotic.

Cutler may well develop into a "franchise" QB, but right now... he's nowhere close.

Beyond that, if Favre would have stayed retired... Jay Cutler would have led the league in interceptions. Sorry, but we can't blame that all on his running back.

So, if we've established that Jay played his best ball when he sunk into the system... ask yourself just what do you think McDaniels plans to do with Orton?

Already having one of the better lines in football, McDaniels went right out and got the best RB in the draft, and several quality back-ups.... added a talented #3 WR familiar with the system and drafted the best blocking TE in the draft.

Take that pool of facts and apply it to your theory that basically says Jay Cutler played his best football when he was able to rely on the offense around him working properly.

Enter Kyle Orton.... look back at Matt Cassel, and you'll start to understand the philosophical difference between last year's team and this year's team.
It's no longer about trying to find the next Elway, or hanging every game on a QB.

We're in the process of building a complete team. Offense, defense and yes... even special teams.

BroncoMan4ever
07-09-2009, 11:02 PM
he wasnt "forced" to risk many of his interceptions, he FORCED them himself.
its not all his fault, he should never have been given the entire team on his back or allowed to throw that many times given how good the running game was going regardless of who was back there, but still.

exactly. a lot of his INTs came from him having plenty of time, and not finding an open guy and instead of throwing it away or checking down, he forced passes into coverage and got intercepted.

Hulamau
07-09-2009, 11:12 PM
I hope not. At the same time...I hope he does well...but he reminds me of a slow Jake Plummer.

I think he will do really well...until the games are on the line and we desparately need to score...or on 3rd downs when we need to keep the chains moving.

I could be wrong. I certainly have been before.

That's when he'll likely do the best.

Hulamau
07-09-2009, 11:15 PM
There's truth in what you're saying, no question. When Jay was asked to sit back in the offense... make some plays and let the offense work as a whole, he played his best football.

The problem came when Jay tried to win games by himself. Forced to, or not... he had great difficulty doing so, which is why the Elway comparisons are idiotic.

Cutler may well develop into a "franchise" QB, but right now... he's nowhere close.

Beyond that, if Favre would have stayed retired... Jay Cutler would have led the league in interceptions. Sorry, but we can't blame that all on his running back.

So, if we've established that Jay played his best ball when he sunk into the system... ask yourself just what do you think McDaniels plans to do with Orton?

Already having one of the better lines in football, McDaniels went right out and got the best RB in the draft, and several quality back-ups.... added a talented #3 WR familiar with the system and drafted the best blocking TE in the draft.

Take that pool of facts and apply it to your theory that basically says Jay Cutler played his best football when he was able to rely on the offense around him working properly.

Enter Kyle Orton.... look back at Matt Cassel, and you'll start to understand the philosophical difference between last year's team and this year's team.
It's no longer about trying to find the next Elway, or hanging every game on a QB.

We're in the process of building a complete team. Offense, defense and yes... even special teams.

Touche, Excellent post Popps!

SouthStndJunkie
07-10-2009, 12:41 AM
He was a winner with less talent around him in Chicago and not much offensive coaching. I'm excited to see what he can do in a better situation, offensively.

Rex Grossman had an almost identical win/loss record in Chicago and he took them to a Super Bowl.

Let's not pretend that Kyle Orton did a lot better than Rex Grossman did in Chicago.

Kyle Orton: 30 TDs 27 INTs - 71.1 QB rating - 21-12 as a starter....no playoff wins.

Rex Grossman: 33 TDs 35 INTs - 70.2 QB rating - 19-12 as a starter....2-2 in playoff games and went to the Super Bowl.

chrisp
07-10-2009, 01:57 AM
Rex Grossman had an almost identical win/loss record in Chicago and he took them to a Super Bowl.

Let's not pretend that Kyle Orton did a lot better than Rex Grossman did in Chicago.

Kyle Orton: 30 TDs 27 INTs - 71.1 QB rating - 21-12 as a starter....no playoff wins.

Rex Grossman: 33 TDs 35 INTs - 70.2 QB rating - 19-12 as a starter....2-2 in playoff games and went to the Super Bowl.

What Grossman has always lacked has been consistency - and I think that the fact he posted an only marginally lower QB rating despite throwing many many more INTs tends to indicate that.

To compare the two directly is insane: Grossman was the kind of guy who would look like a pro-bowler one play and then make the most apalling mistakes the next. Orton was the flipside of that - the more consistent game-manager who nonetheless might arguably make fewer big plays all by himself.

The problem in Chicago is that they couldn't work out which QB they liked the best - the boom-or-bust guy, or the level-headed game-manager

The difference in Denver is that McDaniels knows EXACTLY which kind of QB he wants, and its definitely the latter. Moreover that's probably why Cutler didn't really want to play for him and why maybe - just maybe - McD, despite protestations to the contrary, didn't really want Cutler under center either. We'llnever know for sure, but what is certain is that Orton is a good fit for what McD is trying to do here, and if he proves successful he will only grow in stature and confidence....if not, well, we're screwed... :-)

BMarsh615
07-10-2009, 03:20 AM
I don't see any reason why we should extend him before the season starts. I don't think Orton would want to leave Denver if he had a good year this season. It would be a pretty dumb move by McDaniels if he extended him before a real game was ever played.

Ramathorn
07-10-2009, 04:39 AM
who knows what the broncos will do anymore? I sure as hell have no idea. Orton is a Backup on any nfl team, not a starter. But, we are talking about Mcdoucebag the miracle worker who thinks he can turn water into wine. Good luck with that, asshole. God, I hate him.:

eddie mac
07-10-2009, 05:34 AM
Why not?

We're paying Orton and Simms 3x as much as Cutler as it is.

Oh yeah, it was all about a new contract...

Players do receive money aside from their base salaries you know.

Jens1893
07-10-2009, 05:39 AM
I donīt see them extending Orton until something happens in Kansas City or unless Orton totally rips it up. I think itīs very interesting that Matt Cassel hasnīt signed an extension in KC yet.

eddie mac
07-10-2009, 05:41 AM
I don't see any reason why we should extend him before the season starts. I don't think Orton would want to leave Denver if he had a good year this season. It would be a pretty dumb move by McDaniels if he extended him before a real game was every ever played.

Like Cutler didn't want to leave Denver after reaching the Pro-Bowl, nor Marshall.

Never 2nd guess what a player is going to do especially when it comes down to money/contracts or just plain ****ishness on the players part.

Loyalty died in football many moons ago. You're only as good as the market price and whether you'll meet it or not.

cmhargrove
07-10-2009, 06:05 AM
Orton doesn't sound like a primadonna. If he is successful this year, it will be because of the talent and coaching around him. If the team wants him, he will try his best to stay in Denver. There is really no pressure on the Broncos to wrap up a long term deal.

There is plenty of time after the season, before free agency, to get a deal done based on his performance.

I think this threasd exists because we have nothing new to talk about (no offense Kaylore). I started a thread about pizza crust, so I have no room to speak...

Broncoman13
07-10-2009, 06:11 AM
Just wondering here, but let's suppose the rumors we're hearing locally and from those "in the know" are really true and that Orton has performed so well in preseason that they decide they don't want him to hit RFAgency and instead try to sign him early?

I wonder what the reaction would be? Before you freak out, understand that Xanders was one of the guys who spearheaded getting DJ signed early, so there are guys in the front office who have a sort of precedent of doing this.

I also would love to see the meltdown that would occur if Orton was extended before Brandon Marshall, which could happen if they like him enough.

Thoughts? Tantrums?


We will extend Greek and Tuten before we extend that pathetic excuse of a loser QB.

BMarsh615
07-10-2009, 06:19 AM
Like Cutler didn't want to leave Denver after reaching the Pro-Bowl, nor Marshall.

Never 2nd guess what a player is going to do especially when it comes down to money/contracts or just plain ****ishness on the players part.

Loyalty died in football many moons ago. You're only as good as the market price and whether you'll meet it or not.

I just don't get a douche bag vibe from Orton. If he has a career year and shows the FO we can win with him, I think he would get a fair contract from Denver. I think Orton would appreciate having the OL, WR's, RB's, and TE's we have here, along with an offensive minded HC.

TonyR
07-10-2009, 06:20 AM
...Mcdoucebag the miracle worker who thinks he can turn water into wine. Good luck with that, a-hole. God, I hate him.:

You may really want to consider therapy.

Broncoman13
07-10-2009, 06:23 AM
I think Orton under McDaniels schemes and the Broncos weapons will not only be successful but will thrive. The Broncos clicked with Shanahan and Elway because they were a team first and foremost and talked things over as friends with respect. The whole extension thing will come down to Orton's raport with McDaniels and if he considers him the man he needs long term. mcDaniels is surrounding himself with guys he knows can be molded into team guys instead of just talent with no heart and no team focus. Could be wrong but I think by midseason we'll be hoping he is tied up long term.

Good post and this is pretty much how I see it going down as well. If McD has trust in Kyle Orton and Orton in McD, they will be able to spend a lot of time together for the greater good. I don't think Orton is ever going to be a 4500 yard, 40 TD QB. But I think he has the talent to keep us in games by not making mistakes. Our defense can't afford to be put in tough situations, so if Kyle Orton protects the balls, scores in the redzone, and plays to his ability otherwise... 3500 yards, 25 TDs, and 10 INTs will be his norm.

The day we acquired Orton, Med talked about his ability in a spread style offense. He has already shown the ability to analyze a defense pre-snap and make the appropriate line calls. Oh, and guys will follow him. Not sure who said it first (ME!! Ha!) but he is basically Jake Plummer and Brian Griese combined. The enthusiasm, leadership and arm of Plummer and the smarts, touch, and (doh!!) mobility of Brian Griese. Too bad they didn't give him Jake the snake's mobility when they were cloning him!!

TonyR
07-10-2009, 06:28 AM
...this is pretty much how I see it going down as well.

Are you bipolar? You bounced from "pathetic excuse of a loser QB" to mild praise very quickly! But good post.

Broncoman13
07-10-2009, 06:35 AM
I just don't get a douche bag vibe from Orton. If he has a career year and shows the FO we can win with him, I think he would get a fair contract from Denver. I think Orton would appreciate having the OL, WR's, RB's, and TE's we have here, along with an offensive minded HC.


Here is how this works. One "career year" can equate to a $15m contract the following year. Look no further than Matt Cassel for your proof of that.

If Kyle Orton signs right now, the Broncos are accepting a large risk and therefore would likely be able to sign him for less money. Pretty easy for the Broncos to say at this point that a starting level QB is worth more than Orton's current salary and it would protect the team from having to address the position again next year, but b/c he hasn't proven himself on the field or in this system, he is only worth xxx. I would think a contract around 4 years and $24m would be ideal at this point. Not sure Orton's camp would go for that... without some incentives anyhow. But, if Orton goes out and throws for 3000 yards, 20+ TDs, and 10-15 INTs, he will command a 5 year $40m deal minimum next year. $7-8m a year for a QB is middle of the pack for the position!! Last year, there were 15 QBs that made $7m or better for the year. There were 6 more than made $6m or better for the year. If we can lock Orton up right now by accepting some risk, I'm all for it!!

Broncoman13
07-10-2009, 06:36 AM
Are you bipolar? You bounced from "pathetic excuse of a loser QB" to mild praise very quickly! But good post.

Orton sucks, somebody else is posting under my user name? WTF man!!

Broncoman13
07-10-2009, 06:38 AM
Shut up, Kyle Orton has proven himself in this style of offense. If the Broncos do in fact give him a contract before the season starts, the fans should be thrilled b/c there is a good chance this season will go better than expected. Two major factors to consider with Orton. He protects the ball, which not only extends drives for us and allows us to score a few more points, but it protects what many consider the soft spot on our team still... the defense. Second, he is great in the redzone. Dude gets it done when it counts!!

Man-Goblin
07-10-2009, 06:47 AM
Screw that. Extend Brandstater before the league catches on.

HILife
07-10-2009, 07:41 AM
Just wondering here, but let's suppose the rumors we're hearing locally and from those "in the know" are really true and that Orton has performed so well in preseason that they decide they don't want him to hit RFAgency and instead try to sign him early?

I wonder what the reaction would be? Before you freak out, understand that Xanders was one of the guys who spearheaded getting DJ signed early, so there are guys in the front office who have a sort of precedent of doing this.

I also would love to see the meltdown that would occur if Orton was extended before Brandon Marshall, which could happen if they like him enough.

Thoughts? Tantrums?

I HATE YOU!!!

AAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!111!!

SouthStndJunkie
07-10-2009, 08:31 AM
What Grossman has always lacked has been consistency - and I think that the fact he posted an only marginally lower QB rating despite throwing many many more INTs tends to indicate that.

To compare the two directly is insane: Grossman was the kind of guy who would look like a pro-bowler one play and then make the most apalling mistakes the next. Orton was the flipside of that - the more consistent game-manager who nonetheless might arguably make fewer big plays all by himself.


Insane?

Similar win/loss% - check

Similar QB rating - check

Similar td/int ratio - check

I think you saying that comparing them is insane, is insane.

Why would you not look at 2 QBs that played for the same team, during the same time, and see how they comparatively did?

They have different styles for sure, but both equaled the same result in Chicago.

Br0nc0Buster
07-10-2009, 08:39 AM
Insane?

Similar win/loss% - check

Similar QB rating - check

Similar td/int ratio - check

I think you saying that comparing them is insane, is insane.

Why would you not look at 2 QBs that played for the same team, during the same time, and see how they comparatively did?

They have different styles for sure, but both equaled the same result in Chicago.

except your stats dont take into account the fact that Orton was getting better......Rex wasnt

Orton was playing the best ball of his young career before he got hurt in 08
Im not throwing out Ortons numbers pre 08, but I think it is safe to say the player we are getting is gonna be more like the 08 version instead of the 05 version.

And the 08 version was doing pretty good

Kaylore
07-10-2009, 08:47 AM
Insane?

Similar win/loss% - check

Similar QB rating - check

Similar td/int ratio - check

I think you saying that comparing them is insane, is insane.

Why would you not look at 2 QBs that played for the same team, during the same time, and see how they comparatively did?

They have different styles for sure, but both equaled the same result in Chicago.
Oversimplifying sure makes arguing easier, doesn't it?

Beantown Bronco
07-10-2009, 09:00 AM
Oversimplifying sure makes arguing easier, doesn't it?

Seriously, according to SSJ's logic, Denver and San Diego were basically the same team at the end of the regular season. After all, they had the same record in the same division with almost all the same opponents.

gyldenlove
07-10-2009, 09:09 AM
I would be quite surprised, the team has been quite tight-fisted lately and giving an extension to a QB is a big deal. I think he has to prove that he is worth hanging on to before Bowlen opens up the big wallet.

The other thing is that he will only be RFA next year unless the CBA is extended before the beginning of free agency, so we are not going to lose him for less than a 1st and a 3rd. He has to prove he is better than Brandstater will be next year and he has to prove that he can run the offense.

theAPAOps5
07-10-2009, 09:24 AM
Did you watch the Cleveland game last season?

Did you watch the Atlanta game?

Do you think with a back like Moreno or a healthy Hillis, Cutler would still be forced to risk red zone INTs like the ones against Buffalo?

The problem with making deductions solely through reading statistics on paper is that they fail to capture the underlying game situations and other invariables that influence the outcome much more than mere statistics..

Did you watch the game that mattered the most, Buffalo. Hangovers suck.

Beantown Bronco
07-10-2009, 09:31 AM
The other thing is that he will only be RFA next year unless the CBA is extended before the beginning of free agency, so we are not going to lose him for less than a 1st and a 3rd. He has to prove he is better than Brandstater will be next year and he has to prove that he can run the offense.

Not true. He's unrestricted at the end of this season. He was drafted in 2005 and has already accrued the required 4 seasons of "capped season" service. This will be his fifth season of work.

kappys
07-10-2009, 09:31 AM
They can probably resign Orton for a modest contract with lots of clauses for salary. Smart move.

Brandon will take a big contract to resign unless he screws up agian

Kaylore
07-10-2009, 09:32 AM
Seriously, according to SSJ's logic, Denver and San Diego were basically the same team at the end of the regular season. After all, they had the same record in the same division with almost all the same opponents.

That's a perfect example.

SouthStndJunkie
07-10-2009, 09:35 AM
Oversimplifying sure makes arguing easier, doesn't it?

I can oversimplify it (for you) by stating that I don't think Kyle Orton is anything but an average QB. The Bears were obviously more than happy to ship him (and a slew of draft picks) to go in the other direction after having 4 years to properly judge his capabilities.

gyldenlove
07-10-2009, 09:37 AM
Not true. He's unrestricted at the end of this season. He was drafted in 2005 and has already accrued the required 4 seasons of "capped season" service. This will be his fifth season of work.

Yup, and in an uncapped year you need 6 years to be unrestricted and since 2010 will be uncapped unless a new CBA is negotiated he will be restricted.

tsiguy96
07-10-2009, 09:37 AM
I can oversimplify it (for you) by stating that I don't think Kyle Orton is anything but an average QB. The Bears were obviously more than happy to ship him (and a slew of draft picks) to go in the other direction after having 4 years to properly judge his capabilities.

again, are you serious?

him + 3 draft picks because they see jay cutler is a difference maker for their team, josh mcdaniels feels we will have a better team with orton + extra draft picks.

SouthStndJunkie
07-10-2009, 09:41 AM
again, are you serious?

him + 3 draft picks because they see jay cutler is a difference maker for their team, josh mcdaniels feels we will have a better team with orton + extra draft picks.

It's like being attacked by a bunch of McDaniels groupies in here.

I feel like I am watching the movie 'Almost Famous' with McDaniels being the lead singer in the band and you all are the 'band aids'.

You understand, Penny Lane?

theAPAOps5
07-10-2009, 09:43 AM
It's like being attacked by a bunch of McDaniels groupies in here.

I feel like I am watching the movie 'Almost Famous' with McDaniels being the lead singer in the band and you all are the 'band aids'.

You understand, Penny Lane?

McDaniels is a GOLDEN GOD!

Beantown Bronco
07-10-2009, 09:43 AM
Yup, and in an uncapped year you need 6 years to be unrestricted and since 2010 will be uncapped unless a new CBA is negotiated he will be restricted.

oops, you're right. I keep thinking it's 5 years instead of the usual 4 because of Marshall's situation....but it is 6.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-10-2009, 09:55 AM
Yup, and in an uncapped year you need 6 years to be unrestricted and since 2010 will be uncapped unless a new CBA is negotiated he will be restricted.

Even if the owners and players somehow agree to a new CBA before March '10, you're not going to see guys like Marshall and Orton become UFAs next year. Too many signing decisions (i.e.- not extending these guys this offseason) were based on the belief that teams would control these players' rights for one or two more seasons.

TheDave
07-10-2009, 10:02 AM
OK... what did I miss?

When did these "rumors" that Kyle Orton is performing so well that the broncos are thinking of extending him get started?

Beantown Bronco
07-10-2009, 10:09 AM
the light rail

vancejohnson82
07-10-2009, 10:09 AM
OK... what did I miss?

When did these "rumors" that Kyle Orton is performing so well that the broncos are thinking of extending him get started?

There are no rumors....

Basically its a sport on this board to come up with the most abstract way to allude to a Kyle Orton vs. Jay Cutler discussion

this one gets a B- in my opinion.....my favorites are the ones titled "Who is Your Favorite All-Time Bronco" or whatever....then you open it and its 5 pages of how Jabbar Gaffney sucks and Jay Cutler is a drunk

TheDave
07-10-2009, 10:17 AM
Gotcha... I was trying to understand the present tense use of "Rumors" combined with the future event of pre-season games. Looks like I almost got roped into another Cutler debate... ;D

gyldenlove
07-10-2009, 10:20 AM
Even if the owners and players somehow agree to a new CBA before March '10, you're not going to see guys like Marshall and Orton become UFAs next year. Too many signing decisions (i.e.- not extending these guys this offseason) were based on the belief that teams would control these players' rights for one or two more seasons.

Having Orton as an RFA next year is a good deal, it will be around 2.9 million which is good for a QB. It means we can play him this year and see if we want to keep him and then make the decision next year to give him either another shot at it or have in a competition with a rookie or Brandstater.

I think at the end of the day he is going to have to earn a new contract here and it is going to take a while. The question is what do we do if he is average? if his stats are not as good as Cassels were last year, but not bad, say 3000 yards, 16 TDs and 7 INTs. Not good enough to give him a big contract obviously, but not bad enough to say he has failed.

vancejohnson82
07-10-2009, 10:30 AM
Gotcha... I was trying to understand the present tense use of "Rumors" combined with the future event of pre-season games. Looks like I almost got roped into another Cutler debate... ;D

you have to be careful around here....you respond to a post and next thing you know you are defending Jake Plummer, calling Eddie Kennison out and talking about Dwayne Bowe's dropped OS kick

HEAV
07-10-2009, 10:37 AM
If he has a solid season (which I hope he does) he can be tendered a transition tag or even a Franchise tag (until a longer term deal can be worked)

It all depends on how comfortable McDaniels feel with Kyle and the available options in 2010.

TheReverend
07-10-2009, 10:50 AM
Having Orton as an RFA next year is a good deal, it will be around 2.9 million which is good for a QB. It means we can play him this year and see if we want to keep him and then make the decision next year to give him either another shot at it or have in a competition with a rookie or Brandstater.

I think at the end of the day he is going to have to earn a new contract here and it is going to take a while. The question is what do we do if he is average? if his stats are not as good as Cassels were last year, but not bad, say 3000 yards, 16 TDs and 7 INTs. Not good enough to give him a big contract obviously, but not bad enough to say he has failed.

At least we'll have right of first refusal to match the offer when teams come throwing 1sts and thirds at him :spit:

Beantown Bronco
07-10-2009, 10:51 AM
If he has a solid season (which I hope he does) he can be tendered a transition tag or even a Franchise tag (until a longer term deal can be worked)

It all depends on how comfortable McDaniels feel with Kyle and the available options in 2010.

see gyldenlove's posts above. They wouldn't have to give him either of those expensive tags because he'll only be a restricted FA. Giving him the highest tender possible means they'll only have to fork out $2.7 mil or so instead of the franchise or transition tags which would cost over 4 times as much.

Beantown Bronco
07-10-2009, 10:52 AM
At least we'll have right of first refusal to match the offer when teams come throwing 1sts and thirds at him :spit:

That could happen................if McDaniels is coaching somewhere else next year. ^5

Kaylore
07-10-2009, 10:56 AM
OK... what did I miss?

When did these "rumors" that Kyle Orton is performing so well that the broncos are thinking of extending him get started?

Just treat this thread strictly as a hypothetical discussion about contracts vis-a-vis Orton's performance. Any actual contract offer that may or may not occur is purely coincidental.:angel:

TheReverend
07-10-2009, 10:56 AM
That could happen................if McDaniels is coaching somewhere else next year. ^5

Back with his BFF Nick Saban in college?

summerdenver
07-10-2009, 12:22 PM
I follow Football Outsiders rankings more closely than others as they have the most comprehensive advanced rankings currently that take into account various things like opposition quality, situation of game, position on field - redzone etc into their rankings. They released their Almanac yesterday with projections for 2009. They have some good and some bad news for Broncos.

First for the only good news:
Kyle Orton performed at a league average level last year. He was ranked 25 but contributed (-0.9%) towards their wins - Basically he did not win any games for them but at the same time he did not loose them any games either. He was still better than some Favre guy who was ranked 26th with (-2.2% DVOA). For those curious about it - sexy Rex sucked last year and sucked the year Chi went to super bowl also (-9.3%).

Now for the bad news:
i. Per their projections Broncos have the toughest schedule next year.

ii. Broncos were bad in redzone last year but even with that they were # 2 ranked offense (24.0%) a mere tenth of a point behind the offensive juggernaut SD chargers (24.1%) lead by the awesome Rivers with his mythical leadership skils. Offenses that do well only to flounder badly in redzone typically do well following year - how ever, we may not see the full benefit of this due to change in QB and shift to a more run based offense.

iii. While offense contributed 24% towards team wins last year, Defense contributed -25.2% and ST -12.2% resulting in a net of -13.4% i.e. a below average team that over acheived for their talent level last year.

iv. Their projections give us 4.9 wins lowest win% - yes less than Detriot, Oak, KC etc.

v. Now for the really bad news their projection system is very high on Jay Cutler.

vi. Like everyone else they also predict that Chargers will kick ass this year.

Take it FWIW. These projections are purely statistical so there is no bias in them. For e.g. Their system predicts a rebound for STL this year.

vancejohnson82
07-10-2009, 12:41 PM
I follow Football Outsiders rankings more closely than others as they have the most comprehensive advanced rankings currently that take into account various things like opposition quality, situation of game, position on field - redzone etc into their rankings. They released their Almanac yesterday with projections for 2009. They have some good and some bad news for Broncos.

First for the only good news:
Kyle Orton performed at a league average level last year. He was ranked 25 but contributed (-0.9%) towards their wins - Basically he did not win any games for them but at the same time he did not loose them any games either. He was still better than some Favre guy who was ranked 26th with (-2.2% DVOA). For those curious about it - sexy Rex sucked last year and sucked the year Chi went to super bowl also (-9.3%).

Now for the bad news:
i. Per their projections Broncos have the toughest schedule next year.

ii. Broncos were bad in redzone last year but even with that they were # 2 ranked offense (24.0%) a mere tenth of a point behind the offensive juggernaut SD chargers (24.1%) lead by the awesome Rivers with his mythical leadership skils. Offenses that do well only to flounder badly in redzone typically do well following year - how ever, we may not see the full benefit of this due to change in QB and shift to a more run based offense.

iii. While offense contributed 24% towards team wins last year, Defense contributed -25.2% and ST -12.2% resulting in a net of -13.4% i.e. a below average team that over acheived for their talent level last year.

iv. Their projections give us 4.9 wins lowest win% - yes less than Detriot, Oak, KC etc.

v. Now for the really bad news their projection system is very high on Jay Cutler.

vi. Like everyone else they also predict that Chargers will kick ass this year.

Take it FWIW. These projections are purely statistical so there is no bias in them. For e.g. Their system predicts a rebound for STL this year.


I LOVE Football Outsiders......their number rankings end up being completely on point with what you see as a fan watching every week and reviewing the games....its amazing how accurate they are in dissecting a season using straight numbers

good info

DBroncos4life
07-10-2009, 01:05 PM
again, are you serious?

him + 3 draft picks because they see jay cutler is a difference maker for their team, josh mcdaniels feels we will have a better team with orton + extra draft picks.

quick which head coach has taken a team to the super bowl...

kamakazi_kal
07-10-2009, 01:26 PM
quick which head coach has taken a team to the super bowl...

had he not done this ..... maybe this one.

spdirty
07-10-2009, 01:36 PM
Still makes my skin crawl and my stomach turn when I think about Kyle Orton, Chris Simms, or someone not named Cutler under center.

**** McDaniels.

Ramathorn
07-10-2009, 02:22 PM
You may really want to consider therapy.

or a change of scenery i.e teams.

Ramathorn
07-10-2009, 02:25 PM
Still makes my skin crawl and my stomach turn when I think about Kyle Orton, Chris Simms, or someone not named Cutler under center.

**** McDaniels.

ditto. he is scum.

theAPAOps5
07-10-2009, 02:26 PM
Still makes my skin crawl and my stomach turn when I think about Kyle Orton, Chris Simms, or someone not named Cutler under center.

**** McDaniels.

Eh Cutler being a gutless drunk made my stomach turn more.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-10-2009, 02:28 PM
Still makes my skin crawl and my stomach turn when I think about Kyle Orton, Chris Simms, or someone not named Cutler under center.

**** McDaniels.

How about **** cutler or **** bowlen? They are the ones that orchestrated this mess

UberBroncoMan
07-10-2009, 02:30 PM
Popps choosing option D gave me laughs, but in reality I'd seriously say it's C. I'd rather him wow us and get a contract extension at the end of the season than suck balls and make us all wish Cutler was still here.

DarkHorse30
07-10-2009, 03:06 PM
he wasnt "forced" to risk many of his interceptions, he FORCED them himself.
its not all his fault, he should never have been given the entire team on his back or allowed to throw that many times given how good the running game was going regardless of who was back there, but still.

...IF Cutler is a "franchise" QB, by his third year starting he should WANT the team on his back. The guy NEVER won ONE big game by himself for Denver. Denver fans keep blaming everybody (defense, RB injuries, ST) EXCEPT the guy who is supposed to be the franchise? Why does he get an automatic pass?

IF Cutler was as good as some fans think, wouldn't he have moved heaven and earth to beat his BIGGEST RIVAL (SD) AND SENT THEM BACK HOME EARLY INSTEAD OF GETTING COMPLETELY PUNKED?

I swear, if Cutler had stayed we would have had to start making excuses for him like they did in the probowl ["Great arm, what a bullet.....only 10 feet over the WRs head....wow, that is quite an arm.....MAYBE THE HAWAII AIR IS MAKING HIS DIABETES WORSE (anybody who watched the last 3 minutes of the probowl heard that ridiculous excuse....when Jay couldn't hit the friggin' side of a barn on that last drive)]

Northman
07-10-2009, 03:14 PM
Just wondering here, but let's suppose the rumors we're hearing locally and from those "in the know" are really true and that Orton has performed so well in preseason that they decide they don't want him to hit RFAgency and instead try to sign him early?

I wonder what the reaction would be? Before you freak out, understand that Xanders was one of the guys who spearheaded getting DJ signed early, so there are guys in the front office who have a sort of precedent of doing this.

I also would love to see the meltdown that would occur if Orton was extended before Brandon Marshall, which could happen if they like him enough.

Thoughts? Tantrums?


Hard to say. Woody Paige says that Orton has stunk up the joint this preseason. But my guess is the team will wait and evaluate after the end of the year.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-10-2009, 03:16 PM
Well, it can't hurt to have an experienced backup down the road. You know, for when you get your REAL quarterback?

rastaman
07-10-2009, 03:49 PM
Just wondering here, but let's suppose the rumors we're hearing locally and from those "in the know" are really true and that Orton has performed so well in preseason that they decide they don't want him to hit RFAgency and instead try to sign him early?

I wonder what the reaction would be? Before you freak out, understand that Xanders was one of the guys who spearheaded getting DJ signed early, so there are guys in the front office who have a sort of precedent of doing this.

I also would love to see the meltdown that would occur if Orton was extended before Brandon Marshall, which could happen if they like him enough.

Thoughts? Tantrums?

Meh! Kyle deserves Squat! Right now after 5 years in the league Orton has proven to be at best a career backup-Journeyman QB. How can we possible entertain the notion of extending his contract,,,,,,,,,,,,,,services unseen!!!!!

BMarsh615
07-10-2009, 03:51 PM
Well, it can't hurt to have an experienced backup down the road. You know, for when you get your REAL quarterback?

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Five-offensive-players-who-may-surprise.html

I guarantee Orton will have a better year than Cassel.

2KBack
07-10-2009, 03:52 PM
People throw journeyman around a lot. I mean technically if Kyle Orton is a journeyman so is Cutler.

elsid13
07-10-2009, 03:53 PM
This is extremely important year for Orton. He needs to prove that it was Chicago offense and not him that was the problem. That being said it would be extremely foolish for the FO to extend him before the season starts.

Northman
07-10-2009, 04:07 PM
People throw journeyman around a lot. I mean technically if Kyle Orton is a journeyman so is Cutler.

:rofl:

Good point.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-10-2009, 04:16 PM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Five-offensive-players-who-may-surprise.html

I guarantee Orton will have a better year than Cassel.

The Chiefs are going to win more games than the Broncos this year and that's all that matters.

BMarsh615
07-10-2009, 04:19 PM
The Chiefs are going to win more games than the Broncos this year and that's all that matters.

LOL

You guys brought in the Arizona Cardinals coaching staff to help rebuild your team.ROFL!

Haley and Pendergast won't last 3 years.

The Joker
07-10-2009, 04:20 PM
The Chiefs are going to win more games than the Broncos this year and that's all that matters.

That's like the equivalent of winning a Superbowl for you guys, right?

Bob's your Information Minister
07-10-2009, 04:49 PM
LOL

You guys brought in the Arizona Cardinals coaching staff to help rebuild your team.ROFL!

Haley and Pendergast won't last 3 years.

Are you really this dense?

The team that was IN THE ****ING SUPER BOWL?

BMarsh615
07-10-2009, 04:53 PM
Are you really this dense?

The team that was IN THE ****ING SUPER BOWL?

It is still the FREAKING Cardinals!

The same team who finished 9-7 last year. It's not like Haley was the best coach from this years coaching pool. He was the ONLY HC option available to the Chiefs because it took you guys so long to bring in Pioli.

Popps
07-10-2009, 05:01 PM
Well, it can't hurt to have an experienced backup down the road. You know, for when you get your REAL quarterback?

Again, because no one knows more about "real" quarterbacks than a Chefs fan.

Popps
07-10-2009, 05:02 PM
That's like the equivalent of winning a Superbowl for you guys, right?

No.

Beating us once is their Superbowl.

They'll **** the bed the rest of the season, but if they go 1-15 and beat us once, the Pabst Blue Ribbon will be flowing in mullet-land.

fdf
07-10-2009, 05:19 PM
Again, because no one knows more about "real" quarterbacks than a Chefs fan.


That's probably true. They played against Elway and Fouts for years.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-10-2009, 05:21 PM
It is still the FREAKING Cardinals!

The same team who finished 9-7 last year. It's not like Haley was the best coach from this years coaching pool. He was the ONLY HC option available to the Chiefs because it took you guys so long to bring in Pioli.

It's quite irrelevant. Really.

The Cardinals were a good football team with solid coaching.

PREPARE FOR DOOM!

Bronx33
07-10-2009, 05:30 PM
Nice work bob there goes the cardinals season.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-10-2009, 07:18 PM
Guys, we're having a laugh at your expense (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=210178). Thanks.

DHallblows
07-10-2009, 07:56 PM
I AM rather embarrassed that a third of the board thinks we'll randomly sign Orton to a long term deal before he even proves himself in our system for a full year...

Bob's your Information Minister
07-10-2009, 08:00 PM
I AM rather embarrassed that a third of the board thinks we'll randomly sign Orton to a long term deal before he even proves himself in our system for a full year...

You guys have a system now? When did that happen?

HEAV
07-10-2009, 08:15 PM
People throw journeyman around a lot. I mean technically if Kyle Orton is a journeyman so is Cutler.

Not to mention:
Kurt Warner
Rich Gannon
Steve Young
Kerry Collins

Are some names that have had success after leaving a team or two.

~Crash~
07-10-2009, 08:45 PM
I think Orton under McDaniels schemes and the Broncos weapons will not only be successful but will thrive. The Broncos clicked with Shanahan and Elway because they were a team first and foremost and talked things over as friends with respect. The whole extension thing will come down to Orton's raport with McDaniels and if he considers him the man he needs long term. mcDaniels is surrounding himself with guys he knows can be molded into team guys instead of just talent with no heart and no team focus. Could be wrong but I think by midseason we'll be hoping he is tied up long term.

not to harp I will leave that to the Cutler haters but I think the bunch that say Cutler has no hart are nuts I seen him get pummeled ten times against the Razorbacks and make one of the beautifulest throws to win the game just in time to get berried buy a defender but you are right he is made of chicken salad ....

theAPAOps5
07-10-2009, 09:16 PM
not to harp I will leave that to the Cutler haters but I think the bunch that say Cutler has no hart are nuts I seen him get pummeled ten times against the Razorbacks and make one of the beautifulest throws to win the game just in time to get berried buy a defender but you are right he is made of chicken salad ....

Hey you illiterate drunk ass that was college. He may be tough physically but he is weak mentally and a drunk. No wonder you stick up for him like he is your significant other.

DBroncos4life
07-10-2009, 10:39 PM
I AM rather embarrassed that a third of the board thinks we'll randomly sign Orton to a long term deal before he even proves himself in our system for a full year...

lol THIS!

Hercules Rockefeller
07-10-2009, 10:57 PM
Guys, we're having a laugh at your expense (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=210178). Thanks.

Hilarious!

That has got to the biggest "Who gives a ****?" post ever. A bunch of people on one internetz message board laughing at people on another internetz board. Either side's opinion means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of life.

The sad part is that Boba Fett actually thinks people here care what people on CP think.

DBroncos4life
07-10-2009, 11:01 PM
Hilarious!

That has got to the biggest "Who gives a ****?" post ever. A bunch of people on one internetz message board laughing at people on another internetz board. Either side's opinion means absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of life.

The sad part is that Boba Fett actually thinks people here care what people on CP think.

didn't someone **** up his love life from his own favorite teams board?

tsiguy96
07-10-2009, 11:06 PM
lol THIS!

i kind of agree haha. he needs to get on the field and show that hes atleast a good backup before we sign him to a deal. i have no doubt he will stay a bronco, and if we get a QB in the draft next year or if brandstater takes over eventually, orton will start for atleast this season and half of next season at the least i bet.

Popps
07-10-2009, 11:10 PM
The sad part is that Boba Fett actually thinks people here care what people on CP think.

Did you read the posts over there? It's like the cap off the age at around 14, or the IQ around 85.

WOW, are those some dumb mother****ers.

On top of it, these perennial losers have the nerve to actually talk smack about another team's quarterbacking.

Is there a franchise in football with a sadder QB history than those hicks?

Hercules Rockefeller
07-10-2009, 11:14 PM
Chicago

DBroncos4life
07-10-2009, 11:17 PM
Chicago

Vikings

Spider
07-11-2009, 07:50 AM
extended , choke , sucks ................ this is a football site not a porn site , clean it up people ;D

TonyR
07-11-2009, 08:09 AM
not to harp I will leave that to the Cutler haters but I think the bunch that say Cutler has no hart are nuts I seen him get pummeled ten times against the Razorbacks and make one of the beautifulest throws to win the game just in time to get berried buy a defender but you are right he is made of chicken salad ....

This is one of the beautifulest posts I ever seen. Ever. The English language is spinning in its grave.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-11-2009, 05:17 PM
Did you read the posts over there? It's like the cap off the age at around 14, or the IQ around 85.

WOW, are those some dumb mother****ers.


The funny thing is that we think the same thing about the Mane.

Bronx33
07-11-2009, 05:19 PM
The funny thing is that we think the same thing about the Mane.



But on the other hand sadly disagree on public masterbation.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-11-2009, 05:23 PM
But on the other hand sadly disagree on public masterbation.

For instance, we have no poster at Chiefsplanet who can possibly compare to Bronx33. So that sets you guys apart, for sure.

Bronx33
07-11-2009, 05:30 PM
well thank god we have that figured out. ( rolls eyes )

azbroncfan
07-11-2009, 06:18 PM
Did you watch the game that mattered the most, Buffalo. Hangovers suck.

What about Oakland at Home?

azbroncfan
07-11-2009, 06:25 PM
LOL

You guys brought in the Arizona Cardinals coaching staff to help rebuild your team.ROFL!

Haley and Pendergast won't last 3 years.

Same song and dance everyyear. BTW pendergast is terrible.

oubronco
07-11-2009, 06:47 PM
extended , choke , sucks ................ this is a football site not a porn site , clean it up people ;D

:~ohyah!:

DenverBrit
07-11-2009, 07:09 PM
KC is paying Cassel like he's Manning and the Boob is here to Troll? Idiot!! Hilarious!

Dedhed
07-12-2009, 07:09 AM
Did you watch the Cleveland game last season?

Did you watch the Atlanta game?

Do you think with a back like Moreno or a healthy Hillis, Cutler would still be forced to risk red zone INTs like the ones against Buffalo?

The problem with making deductions solely through reading statistics on paper is that they fail to capture the underlying game situations and other invariables that influence the outcome much more than mere statistics..
Did you watch the KC game?
Did you watch the second Raiders game?
Did you watch the Bills game?
Did you watch the Dolphins game?
Did you watch the Panthers game?

The problem with making deductions based on a couple of Cherry picked games is that you lose sight of the fact that when it came time to take care of business and beat teams that were clearly inferior, Cutler led this team into the dumper more times than not.

Br0nc0Buster
07-12-2009, 07:22 AM
I wouldnt sign Orton before he plays at least half the season, but if he were to get an extension I wouldnt freak out as obviously that means he is doing something well, or at least has impressed the coaching staff.

Kaylore
07-12-2009, 12:47 PM
I wouldnt sign Orton before he plays at least half the season, but if he were to get an extension I wouldnt freak out as obviously that means he is doing something well, or at least has impressed the coaching staff.

There other side of the coin is they are banking he's going to do really well and they don't want him to hit RFA and want a reduced contract on him.

TheReverend
07-12-2009, 01:02 PM
There other side of the coin is they are banking he's going to do really well and they don't want him to hit RFA and want a reduced contract on him.

You think there's a scenario where they WOULDN'T want a 1st and 3rd for Kyle Orton?

That'd be a scenario where the Jay Cutler trade looks good when he turns out to be 3 1sts and 2 3rds...

24champ
07-12-2009, 01:19 PM
Last thing this team needs to do NOW is to extend a QB that hasn't started a full season in the NFL.

I see a bigger risk, extending a QB that hasn't played a full season, nor led a team to the playoffs, hasn't really done squat when you think about it. If we extend this guy, and he displays major suckage this season. Then we are likely to have money tied up in Orton, Simms and some 1st round pick. Not an ideal situation to be in.

On the other hand, If he does great this year and some team wants a 1st and third for this guy, so be it. We are building a team concept here. It's not about the QB anymore...

TheReverend
07-12-2009, 01:26 PM
Last thing this team needs to do NOW is to extend a QB that hasn't started a full season in the NFL.

I see a bigger risk, extending a QB that hasn't played a full season, nor led a team to the playoffs, hasn't really done squat when you think about it. If we extend this guy, and he displays major suckage this season. Then we are likely to have money tied up in Orton, Simms and some 1st round pick. Not an ideal situation to be in.

On the other hand, If he does great this year and some team wants a 1st and third for this guy, so be it. We are building a team concept here. It's not about the QB anymore...

He actually lead the Bears to the playoffs his rookie year.

...but honestly, that depends on how you define the word "lead".

24champ
07-12-2009, 01:35 PM
He actually lead the Bears to the playoffs his rookie year.

...but honestly, that depends on how you define the word "lead".

Bears were so impressed they rewarded him with a start in the playoffs...right?

TheReverend
07-12-2009, 01:57 PM
Bears were so impressed they rewarded him with a start in the playoffs...right?

Hey, you're preaching to the choir, man. Just pointing out that he HAD done it.