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boppool
07-07-2009, 03:40 PM
Finally some good Broncos news! We really need this kid to perform well this season. :yayaya:

Go Broncos!

Broncos rookie Ayers a quick studyAbout the Author
Posted July 04, 2009 @ 3:39 p.m.
By Dan Parr

Sources in Denver say Broncos first-round pick Robert Ayersí transition to the NFL has been smooth.
We hear Ayers, the 18th overall pick in the draft, picked things up quickly during offseason activities and received a good deal of reps with the first-team defense. Itís certain heíll start at one of the front-seven spots on defense from Day One, but exactly where is something the Broncos still have to figure out.
He was mostly lining up at outside linebacker in the teamís 3-4 set, according to observers, but he could be moved to defensive end, and most likely will rush with his hand on the ground on passing downs. The Broncos could re-evaluate the best place to put Ayers depending on what they see from other front-seven players. The coaching staff has established a level of trust in Ayers, and it badly needs him to make an instant impact when the regular season starts.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/07/04/broncos-rookie-ayers-a-quick-study

Los Broncos
07-07-2009, 03:43 PM
I think this was already posted but still good and worth a reread.

boppool
07-07-2009, 03:47 PM
I think this was already posted but still good and worth a reread.

Oops, my bad.

TheReverend
07-07-2009, 03:50 PM
Anything positive like this is worth reading twice, imo.

RunSilentRunDeep
07-07-2009, 03:52 PM
I bet other teams refuse to come out of the locker room for fear of being killed by Ayers.

Los Broncos
07-07-2009, 03:54 PM
Oops, my bad.

No biggie, still worth a read with some dead zone going on.

azbroncfan
07-07-2009, 04:04 PM
He will be a starter by default since the competition for the position is pretty much nonexistent.

Popps
07-07-2009, 04:04 PM
I'm trying to contain my excitement about this kid. DE/OLB is a tough position to come right in and dominate. But, I watch this kid's highlight reel and he just looks like he can do it all. He's definitely not a one-trick pony, or a guy like Moss who may have only feasted on college-level talent. Ayers looks like he's got technique, instinct and multiple moves.

Waited a long time for us to draft someone like this. Hopefully he'll develop into the weapon he looks like he can be.

Hotrod
07-07-2009, 04:14 PM
I like the height of Lenny Walls and the great route running of Watts.

:)

Popps
07-07-2009, 04:16 PM
I like the height of Lenny Walls and the great route running of Watts.

:)

Man, did I bite on the Watts fake. That guy could look like Jerry Rice one minute, and Jerry Lewis the next.

Baba Booey
07-07-2009, 04:17 PM
I like the height of Lenny Walls and the great route running of Watts.

:)

I lol'd.

Good to hear about Ayers.

Hotrod
07-07-2009, 04:19 PM
Man, did I bite on the Watts fake. That guy could look like Jerry Rice one minute, and Jerry Lewis the next.

LOL

I'm just my usual smart ass. I hope Ayers is the read deal but I've promised myself no more offseason kool-aid. I wanna see some production on the field

Broncosfreak_56
07-07-2009, 04:20 PM
I like the height of Lenny Walls and the great route running of Watts.

:)

http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/original/Debbie_Downer.jpg

TheReverend
07-07-2009, 04:20 PM
I'm trying to contain my excitement about this kid. DE/OLB is a tough position to come right in and dominate. But, I watch this kid's highlight reel and he just looks like he can do it all. He's definitely not a one-trick pony, or a guy like Moss who may have only feasted on college-level talent. Ayers looks like he's got technique, instinct and multiple moves.

Waited a long time for us to draft someone like this. Hopefully he'll develop into the weapon he looks like he can be.

In bold is just about the exact opposite of true... that rush LB position has had more rookies light it up than nearly any other. It's like the RB of the defense as far as rookie seasons.

footstepsfrom#27
07-07-2009, 04:43 PM
He's definitely not a one-trick pony, or a guy like Moss who may have only feasted on college-level talent. Ayers looks like he's got technique, instinct and multiple moves.
Pretty sure he's only played against college players...like every other draft pick.

cutthemdown
07-07-2009, 04:54 PM
Ayers with his hand down in a 4-3, standing up in a 3-4, that's my guess.

cutthemdown
07-07-2009, 04:55 PM
In bold is just about the exact opposite of true... that rush LB position has had more rookies light it up than nearly any other. It's like the RB of the defense as far as rookie seasons.

really lots of rookie linebackers do well. Also rookie RBS, maybe we get a lift from Moreno and Ayers, and that helps with losing Cutler, just a little bit.

TheReverend
07-07-2009, 04:57 PM
really lots of rookie linebackers do well. Also rookie RBS, maybe we get a lift from Moreno and Ayers, and that helps with losing Cutler, just a little bit.

Cross your fingers.

Not chest thumping, this is actually just a disclaimer, but I'm pretty sure I'm the first person here high on Ayers in the draft subforum. That being said, he wasn't a "finisher" in college. I love his pressure and his ability to be strong at the POA, but he wasn't the best at finishing getting to the QB and bringing him down.

SoDak Bronco
07-07-2009, 05:04 PM
In bold is just about the exact opposite of true... that rush LB position has had more rookies light it up than nearly any other. It's like the RB of the defense as far as rookie seasons.

I wouldn't say the exact opposite. A lot of times the 3/4 OLB's/ DEs do have a bit of a learnin curve. As for the RB of defense that has to be 4-3 OLB's or 3.4 -4-3 MLB's...see DJ Williams, Jon Vilma, Jon Beason, Deamco Ryans, Patrick Willis, John Mobley, ect ect

Popps
07-07-2009, 05:06 PM
LOL

I'm just my usual smart ass. I hope Ayers is the read deal but I've promised myself no more offseason kool-aid.

What fun is that? ;D

Popps
07-07-2009, 05:08 PM
Cross your fingers.

Not chest thumping, this is actually just a disclaimer, but I'm pretty sure I'm the first person here high on Ayers in the draft subforum. That being said, he wasn't a "finisher" in college. I love his pressure and his ability to be strong at the POA, but he wasn't the best at finishing getting to the QB and bringing him down.

I was actually more impressed with his speed and moves in the open field. Seems like a great tackler and he sheds blockers well.

Maybe not the most pure pass rusher, but I think it's also about getting him in position to be effective in that capacity. (Moving him around, etc.)

I'd love to see he and Dumvervil crashing down from both sides on passing downs.

Br0nc0Buster
07-07-2009, 05:16 PM
In bold is just about the exact opposite of true... that rush LB position has had more rookies light it up than nearly any other. It's like the RB of the defense as far as rookie seasons.

Are you sure about that, it seems ILBs tend to have statistically the best years among rookie defensive players.

and about Ayers, I will go ahead and say I was very high on the kid as well, and got some **** in the draft forum also about it

Kind of like the stuff Mock spouts out ....."hes too small/big to play in a 3-4, etc.."

Well see, hopefully Im right

Popps
07-07-2009, 05:20 PM
Pretty sure he's only played against college players...like every other draft pick.

Thanks for clearing that up.

My point was, he looks further in his development to me... and seems to have more moves than Moss did coming out of school.

Sorry to throw a fast-ball by you like that.

footstepsfrom#27
07-07-2009, 05:27 PM
Thanks for clearing that up.

My point was, he looks further in his development to me... and seems to have more moves than Moss did coming out of school.

Sorry to throw a fast-ball by you like that.
Well you seemed confused, since you differentiated between Moss only facing college players. Moss of course...was essentially a college sophmore when he got here in terms of having lacked game experience due to his staph infection shelving him for two seasons.

But you're right...Ayers>Moss inspires me with confidence, so thanks for enlightening me.

BroncoBuff
07-07-2009, 05:33 PM
We all should be careful about billing this guy as a pass-rusher ... he's not that.

Four sacks in his "coming out" senior season, two of them against Vanderbilt. Like it or not, Jarvis was a better sack guy in college.

I'm excited about him, sure ... but I'm gonna wait and see.

Popps
07-07-2009, 05:36 PM
Well you seemed confused, since you differentiated between Moss only facing college players.

Wow, so Moss didn't play against NFL players in college?

Once again, thanks a bunch, Footsteps. Now I know why you're so revered around here.


But you're right...Ayers>Moss inspires me with confidence, so thanks for enlightening me.

Good. You should be inspired. Moss was so bad he couldn't even make the game-day roster on a team that featured John Engelberger as a starter.

Glad I could help.

BroncoBuff
07-07-2009, 05:45 PM
Once again, thanks a bunch, Footsteps. Now I know why you're so revered around here.
Project much? He's one helluva lot more revered than you and your asterisk key there, Skippy.

footstepsfrom#27
07-07-2009, 06:08 PM
Wow, so Moss didn't play against NFL players in college?
Um...no he didn't Popps.

Here's the way it works. In college, guys play against college players. In the NFL, they play against NFL players.

Any more questions?

BroncoBuff
07-07-2009, 06:25 PM
Um...no he didn't Popps.

Here's the way it works. In college, guys play against college players. In the NFL, they play against NFL players.

Any more questions?

We just have to be patient with him ... he'll learn.

Popps
07-07-2009, 06:28 PM
Um...no he didn't Popps.

Here's the way it works. In college, guys play against college players. In the NFL, they play against NFL players.

Any more questions?

Wow! Great work!

I will say this, at least you posted something accurate for once, even if not interesting or on-point.

BroncoBuff
07-07-2009, 06:37 PM
Do all these stud OLBs in the 3-4 rack up big sack numbers?

~Crash~
07-07-2009, 06:40 PM
I'm trying to contain my excitement about this kid. DE/OLB is a tough position to come right in and dominate. But, I watch this kid's highlight reel and he just looks like he can do it all. He's definitely not a one-trick pony, or a guy like Moss who may have only feasted on college-level talent. Ayers looks like he's got technique, instinct and multiple moves.

Waited a long time for us to draft someone like this. Hopefully he'll develop into the weapon he looks like he can be.

Popps I make a bet with you Ayers will start at MLB'er . I have watched a couple games of him and now I undersand why he went so high . He never lets the play past him and is a sure tackler not a bone crusher but very sure tackle . he is a MLB IMO.

~Crash~
07-07-2009, 06:43 PM
Do all these stud OLBs in the 3-4 rack up big sack numbers?

Dvill will be a probowler at OLB'er and that will leave Ayers to move to MLB . and some times subbing for Dville

Popps
07-07-2009, 06:45 PM
Popps I make a bet with you Ayers will start at MLB'er . I have watched a couple games of him and now I undersand why he went so high . He never lets the play past him and is a sure tackler not a bone crusher but very sure tackle . he is a MLB IMO.

He's got prototypical 3-4 OLB size, though... and looks to be a play-maker. I wouldn't be shocked to see him line up anywhere, but I still think he'll have his biggest impact standing up as an OLB.

But, if you're right... props to you for calling it.

DBroncos4life
07-07-2009, 07:02 PM
Dvill will be a probowler at OLB'er and that will leave Ayers to move to MLB . and some times subbing for Dville

I think Doom has a good chance at playing well in the 3-4. The problem is I think he will have to get 15 plus sacks to get into the Pro Bowl. I sure would love him doing just that though.

BroncoBuff
07-07-2009, 07:20 PM
I think Doom has a good chance at playing well in the 3-4. The problem is I think he will have to get 15 plus sacks to get into the Pro Bowl. I sure would love him doing just that though.
Somebody posted - maybe it was montrose - that Elvis gets most of his sacks from his great explosion out of the 3-point stance, and that it's still questionable whether he'll be able to get much pressure from a standing start.

Not a very positive thought, but there it is ...

tsiguy96
07-07-2009, 07:23 PM
Dvill will be a probowler at OLB'er and that will leave Ayers to move to MLB . and some times subbing for Dville

no, ayers will move to DE and dumerville takes his spot at OLB on passing downs so we can get the 2 better pass rushing guys on the field. dumerville will be back to waht he should be: situational pass rusher, where he will thrive.

Rabb
07-07-2009, 07:40 PM
I am excited to see the new defense with this kid in it

DBroncos4life
07-07-2009, 07:44 PM
Somebody posted - maybe it was montrose - that Elvis gets most of his sacks from his great explosion out of the 3-point stance, and that it's still questionable whether he'll be able to get much pressure from a standing start.

Not a very positive thought, but there it is ...

I still think he will do well. It might take sometime but I believe he has the moves and the talent to get to the QB. Hell if anything maybe someone will get called for tackling him when he is going by them now.

footstepsfrom#27
07-07-2009, 07:57 PM
Wow! Great work!

I will say this, at least you posted something accurate for once, even if not interesting or on-point.
Well I've just never met anyone who thought that college players played against NFL guys in college...so interesting or not, you needed to know.

BTW...high school guys only play against high school guys...in case you were wondering on that as well.

Popps
07-07-2009, 08:09 PM
Well I've just never met anyone who thought that college players played against NFL guys in college

Either have I. We have that in common, at least.


BTW...high school guys only play against high school guys...in case you were wondering on that as well.

Yea, I played in high school. Well aware of that, too.


Sorry a simple point went so far over your head, boss. Again, I'll slow it way down for you in the future. :thumbs:

footstepsfrom#27
07-07-2009, 08:12 PM
Either have I. We have that in common, at least.



Yea, I played in high school. Well aware of that, too.


Sorry a simple point went so far over your head, boss. Again, I'll slow it way down for you in the future. :thumbs:
Your exact quote:
Originally Posted by Popps
Wow, so Moss didn't play against NFL players in college?
Checkmate.

NASurfer
07-07-2009, 08:51 PM
You guys both contribute way more to the forums then I do (more of a reader) but the original quote was:

college-level talent.

There's a difference between college level talent and college players.

Popps was just saying Moss was one of those many, many players that dominate certain types of players but get stonewalled against the next level of competition, which may explain his "bust" status. Can he only dominate guys who can't make it in the NFL? Hard to say but that was his point.

Either way, can't we all just get along? :rofl:

azbroncfan
07-07-2009, 08:56 PM
Well I've just never met anyone who thought that college players played against NFL guys in college...so interesting or not, you needed to know.

BTW...high school guys only play against high school guys...in case you were wondering on that as well.

Footsteps splitting hairs and arguing just to argue. Go figure.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
07-07-2009, 09:24 PM
Finally some good Broncos news! We really need this kid to perform well this season. :yayaya:

Go Broncos!

Broncos rookie Ayers a quick studyAbout the Author
Posted July 04, 2009 @ 3:39 p.m.
By Dan Parr

Sources in Denver say Broncos first-round pick Robert Ayersí transition to the NFL has been smooth.
We hear Ayers, the 18th overall pick in the draft, picked things up quickly during offseason activities and received a good deal of reps with the first-team defense. Itís certain heíll start at one of the front-seven spots on defense from Day One, but exactly where is something the Broncos still have to figure out.
He was mostly lining up at outside linebacker in the teamís 3-4 set, according to observers, but he could be moved to defensive end, and most likely will rush with his hand on the ground on passing downs. The Broncos could re-evaluate the best place to put Ayers depending on what they see from other front-seven players. The coaching staff has established a level of trust in Ayers, and it badly needs him to make an instant impact when the regular season starts.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2009/07/04/broncos-rookie-ayers-a-quick-study

Wow shocking. oh wait. he is the only player playing the "Elephant" LB possession.

footstepsfrom#27
07-07-2009, 09:34 PM
Footsteps splitting hairs and arguing just to argue. Go figure.
Are you telling me Popps doens't deserve to get some grief? LOL...on another thread he's trying to spin Champ's comments.

BTW...I don't argue just to argue. I do so to entertain YOU. ;D

rugbythug
07-07-2009, 10:08 PM
Somebody posted - maybe it was montrose - that Elvis gets most of his sacks from his great explosion out of the 3-point stance, and that it's still questionable whether he'll be able to get much pressure from a standing start.

Not a very positive thought, but there it is ...

look how much better he did with wider splits in the bates scheme vs the slowick. That is what is going to make him better this year. Better Angles to the QB.

Br0nc0Buster
07-07-2009, 10:36 PM
Dvill will be a probowler at OLB'er and that will leave Ayers to move to MLB . and some times subbing for Dville

that is just absurd

He is perfect for SOLB

BroncoBuff
07-07-2009, 10:53 PM
He is perfect for SOLB
I like Ayers at SOLB, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "perfect." Actually, at 272 he's HUGE for an OLB.

Any pair of the four - Ayers, Dumervil, Crowder and Reid - I think will be the biggest OLBs in league history. I keep saying that and nobody says otherwise, but it's an important point: With all these former DEs now playing OLB, at 270-75 pounds each on average, who's gonna pick up the backs out of the backfield? Who's gonna chase down the misdirections? The quick pitches? The reverses?

Seems to me we're sacrificing a lot of speed and quickness for this size we're going to.

BroncoBuff
07-07-2009, 11:08 PM
Wow ... he had just 4 sacks (2 against Vanderbilt), but Ayers had a whopping 15 1/2 tackles for loss as a senior. Nice.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/robert-ayers?id=71193

tsiguy96
07-07-2009, 11:16 PM
I like Ayers at SOLB, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "perfect." Actually, at 272 he's HUGE for an OLB.

Any pair of the four - Ayers, Dumervil, Crowder and Reid - I think will be the biggest OLBs in league history. I keep saying that and nobody says otherwise, but it's an important point: With all these former DEs now playing OLB, at 270-75 pounds each on average, who's gonna pick up the backs out of the backfield? Who's gonna chase down the misdirections? The quick pitches? The reverses?

Seems to me we're sacrificing a lot of speed and quickness for this size we're going to.

well to be fair, ayers is moving to DE on pass downs and dumerville is coming in as situational pass rusher, which hes perfect for. i think the secondary is gonna be relied on a lot more this year, it is weird they keep converting lineman to a position that requires coverage...do we have a true LB on the field with the coverage abilities of an OLB in a 3-4?

BroncoBuff
07-07-2009, 11:18 PM
It is weird they keep converting lineman to a position that requires coverage...do we have a true LB on the field with the coverage abilities of an OLB in a 3-4?

My questions exactly, and I keep coming back to the same answer: I trust Mike Nolan, I really do.

TheReverend
07-08-2009, 12:13 AM
I like Ayers at SOLB, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "perfect." Actually, at 272 he's HUGE for an OLB.

Any pair of the four - Ayers, Dumervil, Crowder and Reid - I think will be the biggest OLBs in league history. I keep saying that and nobody says otherwise, but it's an important point: With all these former DEs now playing OLB, at 270-75 pounds each on average, who's gonna pick up the backs out of the backfield? Who's gonna chase down the misdirections? The quick pitches? The reverses?

Seems to me we're sacrificing a lot of speed and quickness for this size we're going to.

This is why when they first announced our lineup I said it was a 52 and not a 34.

montrose
07-08-2009, 12:24 AM
This is why when they first announced our lineup I said it was a 52 and not a 34.

This will be good for our Football 101 thread. Rev, for those who aren't familiar, would you mind discussing the differences between a 50-front and 30-front?

tsiguy96
07-08-2009, 12:26 AM
This will be good for our Football 101 thread. Rev, for those who aren't familiar, would you mind discussing the differences between a 50-front and 30-front?

its pretty obvious, 50 front=5 guys on the line....

we have a lot of tweeners on this team, im curious how they are gonna get em on the field in their respective positions. interesting to see tim crowder at starter though.

montrose
07-08-2009, 12:27 AM
its pretty obvious, 50 front=5 guys on the line...

Well, not quite exactly. That's why I'm hoping Rev could explain things a bit to the Mane community.

TheReverend
07-08-2009, 12:33 AM
This will be good for our Football 101 thread. Rev, for those who aren't familiar, would you mind discussing the differences between a 50-front and 30-front?

I'm on vacation, and need to go to sleep soon. I'll try when I get home next week, but only a few days till I leave for the cruise.

Talked to Med, and he's very wrapped up in his own work/hobby. He said he doesn't have time to get it rolling but will gladly try to pick apart mine when I get it.

Someone else is welcome to do it. I just won't have time until next week or possibly early august.

misturanderson
07-08-2009, 08:04 AM
I like Ayers at SOLB, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "perfect." Actually, at 272 he's HUGE for an OLB.

Any pair of the four - Ayers, Dumervil, Crowder and Reid - I think will be the biggest OLBs in league history. I keep saying that and nobody says otherwise, but it's an important point: With all these former DEs now playing OLB, at 270-75 pounds each on average, who's gonna pick up the backs out of the backfield? Who's gonna chase down the misdirections? The quick pitches? The reverses?

Seems to me we're sacrificing a lot of speed and quickness for this size we're going to.

If Crowder really turns it on, he has the speed to pull it off. He had better combine times than a lot of LBs coming out of college. I believe his numbers compared pretty favorably to Orakpo at an even bigger size.

Plus DJ and hopefully Dawkins can clean up what gets through the line. Remember that on paper we massively upgraded our last line of defense this year and hopefully it shows by decreasing the number of ridiculously long running plays that we give up.

chrisp
07-08-2009, 09:08 AM
I like Ayers at SOLB, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "perfect." Actually, at 272 he's HUGE for an OLB.

Any pair of the four - Ayers, Dumervil, Crowder and Reid - I think will be the biggest OLBs in league history. I keep saying that and nobody says otherwise, but it's an important point: With all these former DEs now playing OLB, at 270-75 pounds each on average, who's gonna pick up the backs out of the backfield? Who's gonna chase down the misdirections? The quick pitches? The reverses?

Seems to me we're sacrificing a lot of speed and quickness for this size we're going to.

Actually, if you look around at other 3-4 teams in the league, most of the outside linebackers are in that 260-270 ish range, the middle guys tend to be of the more traditional 230-250 range. Plus all the big guys we're looking at on the outside do have good speed.

I know that one thing they do want to do with Ayers is move him around a lot. Think of a young Mecklenburg - drafted as a DE, changed to a LB and when he was in his prime he was known to play almost every position on the front seven before settling down to ILB in his older and slower years....

There are two questions all of these guys have to answer though:

1) can he rush from a 2-point stance?

and

2) can he cover?

If the answer to #1 is yes, then they are a contender for an OLB spot, but if the answer to #2 is no, then the offense knows they're coming wherever they line up, so they may be a contender for that WOLB position but maybe not the SOLB position.

SO that's the question forAyers - I don't see him as a sack-machine, which makes him more of a candidate for the SOLB position, but there's more of a needfor him to cover if he moves there.

It will be interesting to see how he turns out. Must confess that I only got truly switched on to the guy when Mayock picked him as his overall best defensive player in the draft, and there's now a reasonable level of hype about the guy, but that's translated into an expectation in some quarters that ne needs to get 10 sacks this year or he's a bust -that's not how I see it....

Popps
07-08-2009, 10:34 AM
If Crowder really turns it on, he has the speed to pull it off. He had better combine times than a lot of LBs coming out of college. I believe his numbers compared pretty favorably to Orakpo at an even bigger size.

Plus DJ and hopefully Dawkins can clean up what gets through the line. Remember that on paper we massively upgraded our last line of defense this year and hopefully it shows by decreasing the number of ridiculously long running plays that we give up.

Definitely, and keep in mind... Dawkins also has a history of being able to rush the passer and create some plays behind the LOS. Something we've sorely lacked since Lynch retired.