Biden says, Hey Israel, if you want to bomb Iran go ahead.

[cutthemdown]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090706/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_election


Biden also signaled that the U.S. would not stand in the way should Israel opt for military action to eliminate Iran's nuclear facilities, saying Washington "cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do."


This was buried in that article but it caught my eye. For one reason it's the opposite of what Bush was saying. Bush admin came out and said they told Israel not to take military action on Iran. Looks like we are going to bomb Iran through Israel if Biden says things like this.

Lol can not dictate to another nation? Is Biden high? We do that all the time.

[gyldenlove]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090706/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_election


Biden also signaled that the U.S. would not stand in the way should Israel opt for military action to eliminate Iran's nuclear facilities, saying Washington "cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do."


This was buried in that article but it caught my eye. For one reason it's the opposite of what Bush was saying. Bush admin came out and said they told Iran not to take military action on Iran. Looks like we are going to bomb Iran through Israel if Biden says things like this.

Lol can not dictate to another nation? Is Biden high? We do that all the time.

Good to see the Bush doctrin is dead and gone.

[ghwk]

Always use a client state whenever possible.

[mhgaffney]

So, we go from the frying pan into the fire.

The selection of Biden as VP was one of the warning signs about the Obama administration.

A much better choice would have been former Senator Sam Nunn - who has all kinds of credentials re nuclear weapons. Nunn was one of the few who spoke out against Clinton's expansion of NATO into eastern Europe -- the sole purpose of which was to rake in vast profits (for the war machine and their bankster cronies) from arms sales to former eastern bloc nations. Nations that could ill afford to spend vast amounts of money on US arms. These same nations are now among the hardest hit from the global financial melt down.

No doubt, Nunn was eliminated as a possible candidate for this reason, alone -- because he showed some independence and integrity. By contrast, Biden has always been for sale to the highest bidder.

You get what you pay for.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Bush admin came out and said they told Iran not to take military action on Iran.
Must have been a tough sell. ;D

[cutthemdown]

Must have been a tough sell. ;D

lol yeah it was!!!!!!!! You know what I meant though!!!!!!!!:pimp:

[cutthemdown]

Still though don't people think it is crazy Biden just opened door for Israel to bomb them?

I mean cmon since when doesn't the VP of America denounce plans to bomb people? It's not like he says well if Russia wants to bomb Canada what can we do? The are a soverieng nation!!!

Cmon people? see the writing on the wall? Obama is going to use ISrael to bomb the hell out of Iran if and when it become needed.

Your Obama is the MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!! I love this guy.

[TailgateNut]

So, we go from the frying pan into the fire.

The selection of Biden as VP was one of the warning signs about the Obama administration.

A much better choice would have been former Senator Sam Nunn - who has all kinds of credentials re nuclear weapons. Nunn was one of the few who spoke out against Clinton's expansion of NATO into eastern Europe -- the sole purpose of which was to rake in vast profits (for the war machine and their bankster cronies) from arms sales to former eastern bloc nations. Nations that could ill afford to spend vast amounts of money on US arms. These same nations are now among the hardest hit from the global financial melt down.

No doubt, Nunn was eliminated as a possible candidate for this reason, alone -- because he showed some independence and integrity. By contrast, Biden has always been for sale to the highest bidder.

You get what you pay for.



Good Grief. STFU already. Go write a childrens book!

[footstepsfrom#27]

I actually take Biden's comments as something akin to an off-hand commment designed to put the Israelis at ease about suspicions of a lessening US commitment to Israeli security. So much has been made of the supposed Obama shift towards building bridges in the Islamic world that it's been postulated we're abandoning Israel as an ally. I hardly think he was telling them in a sound bite to "go ahead and bomb Iran".

[Meck77]

So is this the "change" you democrats were hoping for? Allowing Israel to start WWWIII sounds like a great policy.

[footstepsfrom#27]

So is this the "change" you democrats were hoping for? Allowing Israel to start WWWIII sounds like a great policy.
Yes I'm sure that's what he meant...good call.

[mhgaffney]

From what I understand -- Hillary has made it clear that if Israel attacks Iran - and Iran the has the temerity to defend itself --- Tehran will come under US attack -- probably with nukes.

In other words, we will annihilate an entire nation for the crime of defending itself. And who are we? Why, America, the home of the brave and land of the free...

With one minor caveat: we take orders from Tel Aviv.

[Dukes]

From what I understand -- Hillary has made it clear that if Israel attacks Iran - and Iran the has the temerity to defend itself --- Tehran will come under US attack -- probably with nukes.

In other words, we will annihilate an entire nation for the crime of defending itself. And who are we? Why, America, the home of the brave and land of the free...

With one minor caveat: we take orders from Tel Aviv.

Hey Gaff, do you jerk off to Schindler's list every night?

[mhgaffney]

Dukes,

Are you related to David Duke?

[SoCalBronco]

Gaff probably uses Mein Kampf as a cum rag.

[cutthemdown]

From what I understand -- Hillary has made it clear that if Israel attacks Iran - and Iran the has the temerity to defend itself --- Tehran will come under US attack -- probably with nukes.

In other words, we will annihilate an entire nation for the crime of defending itself. And who are we? Why, America, the home of the brave and land of the free...

With one minor caveat: we take orders from Tel Aviv.

So this is how we do it. We let Israel lay waste to Nantanz mountain, and any other facility deemed to be part of a nuclear weapons program.

The when Iran responds they will most certainly shoot missiles at Israel, but they will also probably make the mistake of shooting at American shipping in the gulf. Then America responds, lays waste to all of Irans military infrastructure, navy, all republican guard bases etc etc.

Obama will then say I only responded to the attack, we had nothing to do with Israel bombing Iran!!!!!

I like it as long as Russia and China are on board. If they aren't it could be trouble.

[cutthemdown]

Saudis won't care one bit. To Egyptians the Iranians are a scary govt. I think Syria mostly Sunni so they probably scared to death of Iran having a nuke.

You know what? I can't think of one Muslim nation that probably wouldn't privately be sort of relieved if this happened. Only Lebanon I guess.

Tell us Gaff who are Iranians Muslim allies? I know they are cozy with Kim Jong, but hell he may soon be on the hot seat as well.

[orinjkrush]

The Sauds and Israel would enjoy seeing Iran microwaved.

The real enemy just might be the Royal Princes of Saudi Arabia.

All the 9/11 mutherf**ckers were Saudi. Sunni. Madrassas alumni.

[mhgaffney]

Cut,

Your plan is dicey at best. Here are several likely consequences you probably haven't considered.

1. Iran probably has advanced Russian anti ship cruise missiles -- so they don't simply attack the US 6th fleet -- they sink much of it -- and deal the US Navy its worst defeat since Pearl Harbor. In fact, this would be worse than Pearl.

But since our ally Israel started it - what then? Iran is simply defending itself. Furthermore, Iran is correct to hit the US -- since Israel cannot stage an attack on Iran without using Iraqi airspace - which is controlled by the US. So, no way Israel can stage an attack without US complicity.

Notice - -the Iranians will be in the right -- and we will be in the wrong. This is how the world will see it. Thousands of US sailors will die for nothing.

2. It won't just be Natanz. Very likely -- Israel will hit the Bushehr twin reactors -- causing a huge toxic volcano-- a twin Chernobyl -- spewing nuclear poison over a large area. Of course - if this happens Iran will hit back by targeting Israel's Dimona nuclear reactor in the Negev -- which they can do with conventional weapons -- using their upgraded medium range missiles.

Iran probably has GPS aided guidance systems now -- meaning their missiles are now accurate enough to hit the reactor -- causing another smaller Chernobyl in Israel.

Dimona is a smaller reactor -- 150 KW -- but very dirty and toxic enough to poison all of the Holy Land. This would essentially destroy Israel.

3. You forget Hugo Chavez -- who will undoubtedly react - and might well cut off all sales of oil to the US. He could shift sales elsewhere -- like to the Chinese. This would devastate the US economy --

So, what then? Do you bomb Caracas? Do you send more US troops to invade yet another nation? You can't invade everyone.

Think twice before you wish for another war. You might get your wish.

[cutthemdown]

First off we would pull our shipping back out of range of there shore to ship batteries. We would us our subs to sink and destroy all of there navy and cheap ass old subs. We have air bases in Iraq now we can launch airstrikes from so we don't need our carriers anymore. We will still have our missile cruisers engaging close to shore but not the big boy carriers. Won't need them bro we have Iraq, Kuwait, hell even a base in Saudi Arabia they would deny we use but we would still use it.

Make no mistake about it Iran would be finished in a few months and have no fancy toys left with which to play. I doubt they would even hit that reactor, in fact defense experts say they still have not successfully proved they can fire 300-400 miles and be accurate. Better to get them now before they can. Certainly before they have nukes.

Nope you are wrong they would get a big carrier, because at the onset we wouldn't even need them.

[cutthemdown]

As far as Hugo goes, Meh I don't worry about him at all.

[cutthemdown]

The Sauds and Israel would enjoy seeing Iran microwaved.

The real enemy just might be the Royal Princes of Saudi Arabia.

All the 9/11 mutherf****ers were Saudi. Sunni. Madrassas alumni.

Actually the royal family really scared of the radicals that lurk in there kingdom. They basically placate them and pray for no Iran style overthrow.

[Dukes]

Dukes,

Are you related to David Duke?

Why would I be dumb enough to use my real name as a username on a website?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Cripes...all this speculation because Biden made an off the cuff remark? Ridiculous.

[Meck77]

If Bush had made the comment Biden did you democrats would be screaming "War monger!" "Criminal!". What a joke.

[footstepsfrom#27]

If Bush had made the comment Biden did you democrats would be screaming "War monger!" "Criminal!". What a joke.
Well that's because he was.

Bush fabricated a lie to invade a country under false pretenses...hardly the same as an off the cuff remark saying Israel's a sovereign nation.

Try again.

[Seamus]

looking at things from the Israel perspective changes things, there is a lot to this. www.debka.com:

Washington sources note that the vice president has the reputation for fast draws which are sometimes later modified by "clarifications." If this time Biden's statement was coordinated with the president, it would mean that the administration has withdrawn its veto against Israel's resort to military action to curtail Iran's drive for a bomb before diplomacy has been fully tested.

He went on to say: "They're entitled to do that. Any sovereign nation is entitled to do that. But there is no pressure from any nation that's going to alter our behavior as to how to proceed. What we believe is in the national interest of the United States, which we, coincidentally, believe is also in the interest of Israel and the whole world.

"And so there are separate issues. If the Netanyahu government decides to take a course of action different than the one being pursued now, that is their sovereign right to do that. That is not our choice. "

Stephanopoulos persisted: But just to be clear here, if the Israelis decide Iran is an existential threat, they have to take out the nuclear program, militarily the United States will not stand in the way?

Biden: "Look, we cannot dictate to another sovereign nation what they can and cannot do.

Interviewer: You say we can't dictate, but we can, if we choose to, deny over-flight rights here in Iraq. We can stand in the way of a military strike.

Biden: "I'm not going to speculate, George, on those issues, other than to say Israel has a right to determine what's in its interests, and we have a right and we will determine what's in our interests."

DEBKAfile's intelligence sources: The last three days from Friday, June 3, have seen a spate of reports all pointing in one direction: Israel's air and sea capabilities for dealing with Iran and its military nuclear program. US vice president Biden's statement, unless it is withdrawn, looks like the Obama administration's seal on a possible Israeli attack for pre-empting a nuclear-armed Iran. "Israel can determine for itself whether or not to bomb Iran's nuclear program," he said.

Until now, administration officials referred a potential Israeli bombardment of Iran as a disaster whose consequences were impossible to predict.

Now the ball is squarely in Binyamin Netanyahu's court, whether because Washington hopes Israel will pull the Iranian chestnut out of the fire, or to call Israel's bluff. Netanyahu and defense minister Ehud Barak are now free of America restraints for backing up their statements about the need to pre-empt a nuclear-armed Iran before the Islamic Republic poses an existential threat to Israel.

Asked if Americans would again put their lives on the line again if violence flares back up in Iraq, Biden flatly said "no."

The ABC correspondent notes that in the interview Biden used the phrases "sovereign nation" six times in the interview, once in reference to Iraq, once to the US and three times in referring to Israel.

[Spider]

So is this the "change" you democrats were hoping for? Allowing Israel to start WWWIII sounds like a great policy.

Meh . ww3 ? not even close , look let israel do what they got to do , it isnt like Iran wasnt warned , every country has tried to reach out to them , So **** em , they want to rattle the cage of the big dogs , let em ,but when they get bit aint got no one ot blame but themselfs ........

[Spider]

From what I understand -- .

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: that was funny

[mhgaffney]

First off we would pull our shipping back out of range of there shore to ship batteries. We would us our subs to sink and destroy all of there navy and cheap ass old subs. We have air bases in Iraq now we can launch airstrikes from so we don't need our carriers anymore. We will still have our missile cruisers engaging close to shore but not the big boy carriers. Won't need them bro we have Iraq, Kuwait, hell even a base in Saudi Arabia they would deny we use but we would still use it.

Make no mistake about it Iran would be finished in a few months and have no fancy toys left with which to play. I doubt they would even hit that reactor, in fact defense experts say they still have not successfully proved they can fire 300-400 miles and be accurate. Better to get them now before they can. Certainly before they have nukes.

Nope you are wrong they would get a big carrier, because at the onset we wouldn't even need them.

You are talking fantasy.

Pull back? The problem is the entire Persian Gulf is in range of the Russian Yakhonts and Sunburn anti ship missiles. The Iranians own the high ground. They can sweep the entire Gulf from their shoreline. They don't even need subs and ships. They can fire the anti ship missiles from well hid shore batteries -- next to impossible to take out

You would have to withdraw every ship from the Gulf -- and this would mean abandoning the US forces in Iraq -- who are supplied by sea -- not air.

Also -- Iran would incite the Shi'ite majority in Iraq to rise up against the US forces. US forces in Iraq would suddenly come under siege. The US would attempt to resupply Iraq by air -- but even a few stingers in the hands of the Iraqi insurgents would defeat a US air lift. You can be sure the Russians have such weapons -- and would happily supply them to the Iraqis and Iranians.

No doubt -- Putin is salivating at this very moment because he knows if the ISraelis attack Iran it will mean the defeat of the US Navy in the Gulf -- and the end of the US occupation of Iraq.

Yes, Iran may well be destroyed -- but do you think Putin cares about that? Of course not. His goal would be achieved -- pay back for the Soviet fiasco in Afghanistan. The US will lose its control over Iraq and the Gulf forever.

[cutthemdown]

Meh Iran has maybe 12-16 of the sunbursts, they won't last long. They probably miss anyways. Besides I heard the Russians planned on having those be sub and ship fired because of the fact shore batteries are easy to take out. We can find those with sattalites.

Also they supposedly got those missiles from Ukraine in the 90's but missiles need to have upkeep. Who knows what shape they are in now.

[cutthemdown]

Actually what would happen is American air power would overwhelm Irans defenses. We would use tons of electronic warefare bombs that knock out all electricity and communications. We would use radar homing missiles to lock onto all of there radar guidance and destory it. We would use huge bombs and destory every building they have that the military uses.

It would be a sad day for Iran, I really hope it doesn't happen. But if there govt gets too close to having a nuke, thats exactly what they have to look forward to.

[cutthemdown]

I have some really close Iranian friends here in the USA. Very successful Iranian Americans. There parents fled to America when the Shaw was overthrown. So they only lived in Iran when they were very young, don't remember a thing. They are though afraid for what is to become of Iran.

Everyone but Gaff seems to realize they are on a collision course with the biggest superpower the earth has ever known.

Iran may have been screwed by America in the past, but it's nothing compared to what they have coming if they keep this up.

[mhgaffney]

If they keep this up ?? Keep what up? Keep trying to pursue their own independent policy -- and not be under Washington's thumb?

This is the reason the US bombed and/or invaded country after country...

You apparently missed the discussion about the Russian anti ship missiles. The US Navy acknowledged back in 2007 that it can't stop them -- and will be vulnerable for years to come.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=a5LkaU0wj714&refer=home#

The truth is we don't know exactly what the Iranians have. But Russia's missile technology is for a sale -- it's Moscow/'s cash cow -- so it would be foolish to conclude that Iran does not have the latest stuff.

We are not talking about Scuds. That is ancient history. We are talking about killer missiles -- that will hit and destroy what they are aimed at. Lethal and with a range of 120-150 + miles. This means anything in the Gulf is a target.

With enough of these weapons Iran could sink every US ship in the Gulf in a half hour. But of course we can't know -- for sure -- because they have never been used in combat.

You are not ready for this. Let us pray for peace and work for peace..

[Garcia Bronco]

If Isreal attacked Iran we should point our guns at Isreal. They will have destroyed oil production and flow in the region and China won't be happy either. It would destroy the world economy and it would result in a large scale war among many nations.

[TailgateNut]

If Isreal attacked Iran we should point our guns at Isreal. They will have destroyed oil production and flow in the region and China won't be happy either. It would destroy the world economy and it would result in a large scale war among many nations.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Garcia Bronco]

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Bro we are talking roughly 10 percent of the worlds oil and the 4th top producer of oil. Plus the pipelines to get the oil out of the region. Prices on everything would shoot through the roof at the start and who knows what would happen after that. And Gaff is correct about their anti ship missles. Iran would still get owned, but why bother when Isreal is the problem.

[TailgateNut]

Bro we are talking roughly 10 percent of the worlds oil and the 4th top producer of oil. Plus the pipelines to get the oil out of the region. Prices on everything would shoot through the roof at the start and who knows what would happen after that. And Gaff is correct about their anti ship missles. Iran would still get owned, but why bother when Isreal is the problem.

I advocate turning the whole region into a glass ornament!:strong:

[Hotrod]

From what I understand -- Hillary has made it clear that if Israel attacks Iran - and Iran the has the temerity to defend itself --- Tehran will come under US attack -- probably with nukes.

In other words, we will annihilate an entire nation for the crime of defending itself. And who are we? Why, America, the home of the brave and land of the free...

With one minor caveat: we take orders from Tel Aviv.

LOL oh my

[Rohirrim]

I like bagels.

[Hotrod]

I like bagels.

I've never really been a big fan but I did happen to have a garlic one the other day that was pretty damn good.....as far as 3 day old doughnuts go anyway.

[cutthemdown]

Meh we can't let Iran gain a nuclear device just because they may have 16 sunburst missiles from the Ukraine in the late 90's.

[mhgaffney]

Meh we can't let Iran gain a nuclear device just because they may have 16 sunburst missiles from the Ukraine in the late 90's.

Sorry Cut -- but this is the most unintelligent post you ever made.

During the Cold War we lived through a nuclear stand off with the USSR --which had thousands of nukes pointed at us.

So why can't t the world survive a nuclear armed Iran? Has Iran started any wars in the last 100 years? Answer: No.

This despite being attacked numerous times -- by Russia, the UK, the US, and Iraq.

True, Iran may have supported terrorist acts -- but so what? The US record promoting terrorism is far far worse.

Until evidence proves otherwise, Iran is NOT guilty.

[Hotrod]

Sorry Cut -- but this is the most unintelligent post you ever made.

During the Cold War we lived through a nuclear stand off with the USSR --which had thousands of nukes pointed at us.

So why can't t the world survive a nuclear armed Iran? Has Iran started any wars in the last 100 years? Answer: No.

This despite being attacked numerous times -- by Russia, the UK, the US, and Iraq.

True, Iran may have supported terrorist acts -- but so what? The US record promoting terrorism is far far worse.

Until evidence proves otherwise, Iran is NOT guilty.

I think that pretty much sums your stupid ass up right there Ha!

[cutthemdown]

So gaff is saying a nuclear arms race in the mideast is good for the world.

Yeah and I am the one who is unintelligent.

If Iran gets one, then Saudis need one, then Lybia might as well again, the Syria, then Egypt, and so on and so on. It's just not a good idea for the region or the world.

You are in the minority Gaff, All of the EU and Nato say no to Iran getting a nuke. They will be stopped and when we do it it won't be as bad as you say. You are way over-rating Irans capability.

[cutthemdown]

Just say no to more nuclear weapons. It's time to get rid of them not let more countries join the club.

[cutthemdown]

Russia and USA just agreed we need less nuclear arms right? You think the 2 superpowers are going to want Iran building them?

[Seamus]

Shortly after assuming power, Khomeini began calling for Islamic revolutions across the Muslim world, including Iran's Arab neighbor Iraq, the one large state besides Iran with a Shia majority population.

Yea, Iran is very friendly.


Ahmadinejad is on record as stating he believes he is to have a personal role in ushering in the age of the Mahdi. In a Nov. 16, 2005, speech in Tehran, he said he sees his main mission in life as to "pave the path for the glorious reappearance of Imam Mahdi, may Allah hasten his reappearance."

According to Shiites, the 12th imam disappeared as a child in the year 941. When he returns, they believe, he will reign on earth for seven years, before bringing about a final judgment and the end of the world.

Ahmadinejad and others in Iran are deadly serious about the imminent return of the 12th imam, who will prompt a global battle between good and evil (with striking parallels to biblical accounts of "Armageddon"). Some interpretations of the events that precede his coming include a war that wipes out most of the world's population.

[cutthemdown]

Yeah Iran may not attack, because they know they would be destroyed, but they sure do fight a lot of proxy wars through terrorists, Hezzbollah etc. They are a crazy bunch for sure. We probably are partly to blame as we exploited the Persians after ww2 for there oil. IMO though British Petroleum and the English govt also share a lot of that.

But now that is water under a bridge, we have to protect ourselves from whatever revenge Iran seems to feel it is entitled to.

The most important thing in the region is thwarting the Iranian push for a nuclear weapon. 2nd is finding a way to make the Palestinians have a decent life. Solve those 2 problems and hell the region looking all rosy and inviting. Anyone for a vacation to sunny Iran?

[Cool Breeze]

I suspect Biden's announcement has to do with the offensive in Afghanistan, and with the increasing number of IEDs our guys are coming across with the words "Made In Iran" on them.

I think it is a signal to Tehran

I don't think there is a coincidence that China has backed off switching out the dollar as the international reserve currency

Nor is it a coincidence that Biden's statement occurs when Obama is visiting Russia.

[cutthemdown]

I suspect Biden's announcement has to do with the offensive in Afghanistan, and with the increasing number of IEDs our guys are coming across with the words "Made In Iran" on them.

I think it is a signal to Tehran

I don't think there is a coincidence that China has backed off switching out the dollar as the international reserve currency

Nor is it a coincidence that Biden's statement occurs when Obama is visiting Russia.

If Russia and China tire of N Korea and Irans little plan for N korea to develop the warhead, Iran to develop the solid fuel long range missiles, then yeah they are totally done.

Are you saying Obama is in Russia giving up missile defense etc in order to get russians to let the USA and Israel play hardball with Iran?