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ZONA
07-05-2009, 12:02 PM
I know more then half the mane will say yes but we know that's BS. Wanted to run a few questions by to get some opinions. I started back up weight lifting after 6 years of not doing jack (I know, how frickin lame). Obviously supplements change. What's the new good stuff out there?

I'm taking 120g of protein a day, is that enough?

Staying away from prohormones. Going with Creatin (a newer kind that is pH balanced and there is no loading times and no bloating).


I would like to speed up some fat burning though. Somebody told me about a burner called Venom. Any thoughts on that?


Now for the pumping iron talk. I don't believe half the articles I read on the web. I'd like to get some of your routines and see what you do. I always kinda felt like I over-trained when I did this last. Giving muscles only 1 day to rest in between workouts. So what's your routine?

Rocket 7
07-05-2009, 12:05 PM
Obligatory 12 ounce curls answer

tsiguy96
07-05-2009, 12:10 PM
I know more then half the mane will say yes but we know that's BS. Wanted to run a few questions by to get some opinions. I started back up weight lifting after 6 years of not doing jack (I know, how frickin lame). Obviously supplements change. What's the new good stuff out there?

I'm taking 120g of protein a day, is that enough?

Staying away from prohormones. Going with Creatin (a newer kind that is pH balanced and there is no loading times and no bloating).


I would like to speed up some fat burning though. Somebody told me about a burner called Venom. Any thoughts on that?


Now for the pumping iron talk. I don't believe half the articles I read on the web. I'd like to get some of your routines and see what you do. I always kinda felt like I over-trained when I did this last. Giving muscles only 1 day to rest in between workouts. So what's your routine?

stick with the tried and tested normal creatine, its proven, the new stuff is not. however, there is a lot of research showing that if you add in beta alanine, its effects are compounded. 2-3g of BA a day, 4-5g of CM a day will be good.

fat burners arent much more than caffeine, look into a caffeine pill or energy drink, though i have heard a lot about hot rox, but since you are just starting again, you dont need all the supplements. there is science to show that lifting on caffeine increases focus and ability to lift.

lift heavy, compound movements. hundreds of sets does not make your body grow. go to www.t-nation.com and read as much as you can. start with 3 days a week, full body routine for 6-8 weeks, then transition to something else that suits what you want to do. as far as the protein, it depends on your bodyweight but 120g per day will be enough for most people.

ZONA
07-05-2009, 12:30 PM
stick with the tried and tested normal creatine, its proven, the new stuff is not. however, there is a lot of research showing that if you add in beta alanine, its effects are compounded. 2-3g of BA a day, 4-5g of CM a day will be good.

fat burners arent much more than caffeine, look into a caffeine pill or energy drink, though i have heard a lot about hot rox, but since you are just starting again, you dont need all the supplements. there is science to show that lifting on caffeine increases focus and ability to lift.

lift heavy, compound movements. hundreds of sets does not make your body grow. go to www.t-nation.com and read as much as you can. start with 3 days a week, full body routine for 6-8 weeks, then transition to something else that suits what you want to do. as far as the protein, it depends on your bodyweight but 120g per day will be enough for most people.

So do you slam a coffee or caffeine drink before going to the gym? As for the Creatine, dude, you have to try this stuff I am taking. I took traditional Creatine for the longest time. It worked, but way too many side effects (cramps, bloating) and I hated taking it.

This stuff is working just as well as the old creatine I took but I don't have any side effects at all. No loading, no bloating, cramps, nothing.

Kre Alkalyn 1500

Read this - actually goes into details on how it's made and why it works.

Kre Alkalyn Creatine Review


Kre Alkalyn creatine has been on the market for awhile now. Although many have probably tried this new form of creatine, many more probably still have not. I was originally introduced to Scifit's Kre Alkalyn 1500 creatine caps by my contact at Sci-Fit - of course I've heard of kre alkalyn creatine long before that time, however, I was skeptical, and didn't pay much attention to it.

At that time, how could I believe such claims that:

* Taking 1g of Kre Alkalyn creatine is equivalent of taking 10g of normal creatine, and
* Kre Alkalyn creatine is stable in water because its PH buffered!

I didn't believe these claims, and didn't bother to. My initial thoughts were "just some new marketing scam... etc." I remember some representative of Kre Alkalyn (not sure if this person was from a licensed company, or from the direct manufacturer) that came on our chat boards promoting Kre Alkalyn creatine - boy, did he get a face full of dirt. =)

Long story short, I was convinced to give KreAlkalyn Creatine a shot, and after that, I really had to change my views on this new type of creatine.


What is KreAlkalyn Creatine?
Kre Alkalyn was discovered by Jeff Golini, who also discovered Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate (AAKG), a nitric oxide amplifying agent. Jeff introduced a new product testing technology called NIR (near infrared analysis), which is now heavily used in the pharmaceutical and supplement industry. Kre Alkalyn Creatine was discovered while doing routine purity and stability tests on creatine using NIR. Kre Alkalyn was eventually awarded US patent #6,399,661.

The research provided to receive this patent had shown that creatine's speed of conversion to creatinine is related to the pH of the liquid used for mixing - I'm sure most of us know that creatine breaks down to creatinine when mixed in liquid, which is a useless compound. The research demonstrated that the lower the pH, the faster creatine converts to creatinine, and it also found that conversion rate to creatinine slows as the pH of the creatine itself is raised above 7. At a pH of 12, creatine stops converting to creatinine.

So essentially, Kre Alkalyn Creatine is a pH buffered creatine with a pH above 12. As a result, it remains stable when mixed with liquid. What significance does this have for bodybuilding? With a buffered pH, the Kre Alkalyn creatine we consume remains completely stable and reaches muscle cells at full strength.


Kre Alkalyn Creatine Side Effects & Benefits

With the above said, there are some key benefits of Kre Alkalyn Creatine. With a pH buffered creatine:

* You only need to take very small amounts - 1 to 3 grams per day is plenty
* You will notice the same types of results as normal creatine (if not better).
* Some individuals tend to get bloated with creatine monohydrate, but with Kre Alkalyn, there's no bloating. While I can't vouch for this since I don't bloat with regular creatine, but I've had many users tell me that they don't bloat with Kre Alkalyn creatine.
* Some individuals also tend to get upset stomach with regular creatine, but with Kre Alkalyn creatine, that shouldn't be a problem anymore.

My Experience with SciFit Kre Alkalyn 1500

Like I said above, I was skeptical about KreAlkalyn at start, but was convinced to give it a shot by my contact at Sci-Fit. He told me it was a very new product at SciFit, that it works, that I only need to take very small amounts, and yadiyadiyada... So, I ordered 2 bottles of Sci-Fit Kre Alkalyn 1500.

Each bottle of Kre Alkalyn 1500 has 120 caps, and the bottle instructions suggested 1 to 2 caps twice daily. So setup my schedule to take 2 caps 30mins before workout, and 2 caps after workout. This works out such that each bottle lasts me a month. After just the first 3 to 4 days, I start noticing the effects - just like any other creatine! Except the fact that I'm only taking 2 caps each serving, or only 1.5grams per serving.

So in short, Kre Alkalyn works, and works great - all its claims are true as well. I was quite surprised myself how well it worked. As well, Kre Alkalyn creatine's benefits such as no bloating and no upset stomachs is a major plus for individuals who tend to get bloated and/or get upset stomachs with regular creatine.

Considering the fact that you only need to take small amounts of Kre Alkalyn per serving (1 to 2 grams), this is the only creatine product that I would ever buy in pill form. I can't imaging downing 5 to 8 pills of regular creatine pills each serving! Taking only 1 to 2 pills of kre alkalyn is very manageable - the pills are quite small. Another plus of Kre Alkalyn is that it isn't expensive at all. SciFit's Kre Alkalyn 1500 (120 cap bottle) goes for around $30 at retail, but you can get it online for only $25.




Kre-Alkalyn 1500

Cito Pelon
07-05-2009, 12:44 PM
I do light/medium weights high reps, then every 5 days I go power. I usually do about 40-50 reps each with dumbell curls, military press, shrugs, butterflys. I add in pullups and pushups just because it feels good. I run stairs because it's a better workout for the lower body than lifting.

Spider
07-05-2009, 12:55 PM
sorry guys but lifting weights isnt where it is at..........if you have an office job , then on days off , create alot of shovel work around your place ,for 8-12 hours every day you are off , if you live in an apartment hire yourself out to farms as part time work , haying season and silage season is coming up , thats a work out and a half ......
hard work , no substitute ..........

Baba Booey
07-05-2009, 12:57 PM
I use Myoplex. I used Nitro Tech for a while which was legit as well.

elsid13
07-05-2009, 12:59 PM
What are you trying to do? Gain Mass, lose weight, get in shape? Each goal has different path to achieve that objective.

oubronco
07-05-2009, 01:01 PM
sorry guys but lifting weights isnt where it is at..........if you have an office job , then on days off , create alot of shovel work around your place ,for 8-12 hours every day you are off , if you live in an apartment hire yourself out to farms as part time work , haying season and silage season is coming up , thats a work out and a half ......
hard work , no substitute ..........

Yep I was hauling hay from the time I was old enough to buck one up on the trailor if you want a real workout go to the hay fields at 4 in the morning you won't want any part of lifting weights after that :strong:

Jason in LA
07-05-2009, 01:01 PM
There's a thread on this topic.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=54902

Spider
07-05-2009, 01:05 PM
Yep I was hauling hay from the time I was old enough to buck one up on the trailor if you want a real workout go to the hay fields at 4 in the morning you won't want any part of lifting weights after that :strong:

;D same here .....you lose weight , build mass , all of that and get paid ( well pay isnt so great but hey ;D )

bronco_boi_5280
07-05-2009, 01:18 PM
No iron, but definitely pump hoes.

tsiguy96
07-05-2009, 01:31 PM
I do light/medium weights high reps, then every 5 days I go power. I usually do about 40-50 reps each with dumbell curls, military press, shrugs, butterflys. I add in pullups and pushups just because it feels good. I run stairs because it's a better workout for the lower body than lifting.

well, depends what you are lifting for. running stairs is good cardio, but not really a leg workout. there is very little resistance, you wont build lower leg strength or hypertrophy, just endurance, but if thats what you are going for running stairs is good.

pretty much that entire workout is endurance workout, power workout consists of power exercises, cleans, presses etc.

Florida_Bronco
07-05-2009, 01:45 PM
I'm taking 120g of protein a day, is that enough? 1 gram of protein per 1lb of lean body weight is what I try to take in.

Staying away from prohormones. Going with Creatin (a newer kind that is pH balanced and there is no loading times and no bloating). I agree that you should just stick with the regular creatine monohydrate. It's proven and extremely effective.


I would like to speed up some fat burning though. Somebody told me about a burner called Venom. Any thoughts on that? The ECA stack (ephedrine, caffeine, aspirin) is the only proven fat burner that I know of. The FDA banned ephedrine as a dietary supplement but you can still purchase it as a decongestant. Just be super careful if you still take it.

Now for the pumping iron talk. I don't believe half the articles I read on the web. I'd like to get some of your routines and see what you do. I always kinda felt like I over-trained when I did this last. Giving muscles only 1 day to rest in between workouts. So what's your routine? Right now I'm in a weight loss phase, so I'm doing a 20min cardio warm up in the fat burning zone, then 6-8 exercises with a lower weight, reps between 12-20 and 3 sets. I only allow 30-60 seconds rest between sets and lift enough weight that I'm struggling to make the last rep of the 3rd set.

It's worked well for me so far. I'm on a variation of the low carb diet and my only supplements are a multi-vitamin, EAS whey protein and creatine monohydrate. Im gonna pick up some glutamine though.

ZONA
07-05-2009, 01:48 PM
I've done hard labor as well. It does get you in shape and builds a certain amount of muscle, but you're not going to look like this using a shovel....lol

http://www.bharatstudent.com/ng7uvideo/bs/photos/community/big/gg__1242288321294.jpg


My goals are building muscle mass and trimming some of the fat off the belly. I don't do alot of cardio since I hate it but I do need to do some to help fat burning. I'd like to have the perfect body...........hahahaha. For real, just get bigger and stronger and cut the fat down. Pretty simple goal really.

Spider
07-05-2009, 01:50 PM
I eat bacon , eggs , sausage , McDonalds , burger king , taco bell , even today ....... love me some meat lovers pizza and omelets ............I use chewing tobacco , and I used to drink regular sodas ( but since the Doc said I was a diabetic , I drink diet soda ;D) but my blood sugar hasnt been over 120 in months ....... I think it was the corn syrup screwing with me ........and I am as fit as a fiddle

Spider
07-05-2009, 01:53 PM
I've done hard labor as well. It does get you in shape and builds a certain amount of muscle, but you're not going to look like this using a shovel....lol

http://www.bharatstudent.com/ng7uvideo/bs/photos/community/big/gg__1242288321294.jpg


My goals are building muscle mass and trimming some of the fat off the belly. I don't do alot of cardio since I hate it but I do need to do some to help fat burning. I'd like to have the perfect body...........hahahaha. For real, just get bigger and stronger and cut the fat down. Pretty simple goal really.

;D yeah I dont look like that , but I do have some impressive guns ;D

rugbythug
07-05-2009, 02:18 PM
When I was really training I did 2 grams of protein per gram of body weight. I am very carb intolerant so I always went low carbs except post workout I am a big believer in the DoggCrapp work out method.

www.extrememuscle.com or www.professionalmuscle.com

Hogan11
07-05-2009, 02:26 PM
I did till I tore up my rotator cuff....now it's mostly rehabbing that, diet and cardio.

ChrisSimpy
07-05-2009, 02:38 PM
When I was really training I did 2 grams of protein per gram of body weight. I am very carb intolerant so I always went low carbs except post workout I am a big believer in the DoggCrapp work out method.

www.extrememuscle.com or www.professionalmuscle.com

Yea the recommended is 1.5 - 2 grams

I lift alot now trying to get in good shape too. If you want to lose Body fat good diet and cardio... With routine lifting too.

If you hate cardio do some HIIT workouts. I'm not to big of a fan of creatine I mainly just use whey protein.

Jason in LA
07-05-2009, 02:40 PM
No iron, but definitely pump hoes.

That's the way to do it. ;D

Cito Pelon
07-05-2009, 02:42 PM
Yep I was hauling hay from the time I was old enough to buck one up on the trailor if you want a real workout go to the hay fields at 4 in the morning you won't want any part of lifting weights after that :strong:

Bailing hay is a workout, maybe the best workout there is. Been there, done that.

Cito Pelon
07-05-2009, 02:46 PM
well, depends what you are lifting for. running stairs is good cardio, but not really a leg workout. there is very little resistance, you wont build lower leg strength or hypertrophy, just endurance, but if thats what you are going for running stairs is good.

pretty much that entire workout is endurance workout, power workout consists of power exercises, cleans, presses etc.

Bosheet. Running stairs is the best leg workout for an athlete.

tsiguy96
07-05-2009, 02:53 PM
Bosheet. Running stairs is the best leg workout for an athlete.

yea, what do i know...

TheReverend
07-05-2009, 03:14 PM
I know more then half the mane will say yes but we know that's BS. Wanted to run a few questions by to get some opinions. I started back up weight lifting after 6 years of not doing jack (I know, how frickin lame). Obviously supplements change. What's the new good stuff out there?

I'm taking 120g of protein a day, is that enough?

Staying away from prohormones. Going with Creatin (a newer kind that is pH balanced and there is no loading times and no bloating).


I would like to speed up some fat burning though. Somebody told me about a burner called Venom. Any thoughts on that?


Now for the pumping iron talk. I don't believe half the articles I read on the web. I'd like to get some of your routines and see what you do. I always kinda felt like I over-trained when I did this last. Giving muscles only 1 day to rest in between workouts. So what's your routine?

If you weigh 120 lbs, yes.

meangene
07-05-2009, 03:27 PM
I lift three days a week - one day lower body (maybe back with it) and two days upper body. I change my routine every month - sometimes higher reps and sets, sometimes lower reps and sets. I mix power lifts, machines, plyometrics, the whole spectrum. I do as much weight as I can lift and still meet the set / rep requirement. The key is to change and change often to shock your body. I also do a half hour of cardio after lifting for an hour. I rotate the cardio too - stairstepper, treadmill, stationary bike.

I do two trail runs a week on non-lifting days - one 5-6 miles and one 10-12 miles. The trails are easier on the joints than pounding the pavement and the constant ups, downs, twists and turns give me a better workout. I drink a Monster before the long run. Other than that I just take two GNC Mega Men Sport vitamins, and two glucosomine chondroiton supplements. I eat enough fish not to need the Omega 3 supplements. If you eat right, you don't need all that growth crap.

What I have learned as I have gotten older is to lift smarter, not longer or more often. I am in the best shape of my life at 48 and the constant change keeps the workouts interesting.

OCBronco
07-05-2009, 03:30 PM
Since last november, I've been using Kettlebells with very good results.

My original intention was to lose weight, since the aim of kettlebell training is to do your strength work and cardio at the same time. The unexpected benefit is that I put on quite a bit of muscle in my back, shoulders, arms and legs.

The upside:

* The workouts are usually pretty short (10-20 minutes is not uncommon), so it works well for people who are very busy and don't have a lot of time for working out (in my case, I'm in a PhD program, so I don't have 2 hours to spend at the gym).

* The workouts are quite challenging, since you have to learn how to move your body in a different way in order to swing the weight.

* I have found few exercises that work my forearms like this (maybe dead lifts or olympic style lifts like clean and jerk).

* This is one of the few workouts I've seen that replicates what Spider was talking about above... i.e., if you don't have access to a hay farm, or if you live in the middle of the city in an apartment, and there's nothing to shovel, this is a really good alternative.

* I hate jogging and I hate cardio machines (but I enjoy sprinting), so this works very well for me. Could also be a good alternative for people who can't get outside to jog in the winter.

The downsides:

* this workout can be very dangerous... you could kill or badly injure yourself if you do it incorrectly (that said, the danger factor might be an upside, too :wiggle: )

* you probably need to get a trainer to teach you to it correctly, or else take a long time looking at internet videos to make sure you're doing the moves the way they're supposed to be done.

* the weights can be expensive, usually 65 or 70 bucks for a 35 lb weight, and then it moves up from there. That said, I really like the bells made by a company called CAP. Very good stuff and inexpensive. (on the other hand, a treadmill or elliptical will usually run you about 500 bucks or more, so the cost may be a push if you're looking at a wider comparison)

* this is hard, brutal work. You build up quite a bit of lactic acid during these workouts (so it can be very painful), and you develop calluses on your hands. Like I said above, this style of working out is probably the only thing that comes close to replicating work in the hay fields.

* this is not the sort of workout where you can let your attention wander. You really have to concentrate throughout the movements.

Anyway, I'm not knocking any person's way of working out. I'm just reporting that this worked really well for me.

If anyone is interested, here are a few sites that I have found useful:

www.artofstrength.com
www.dragondoor.com
http://www.liftkettlebells.com/
http://www.crossfit.com/

oubronco
07-05-2009, 03:59 PM
I eat bacon , eggs , sausage , McDonalds , burger king , taco bell , even today ....... love me some meat lovers pizza and omelets ............I use chewing tobacco , and I used to drink regular sodas ( but since the Doc said I was a diabetic , I drink diet soda ;D) but my blood sugar hasnt been over 120 in months ....... I think it was the corn syrup screwing with me ........and I am as fit as a fiddle

Amen Brotha!! Grandma's breakfast was the best, couldn't start the day without one

Spider
07-05-2009, 04:06 PM
Amen Brotha!! Grandma's breakfast was the best, couldn't start the day without one

;D grandmas biscuits and sausage gravy .........that was some of the best eatin

oubronco
07-05-2009, 04:08 PM
;D grandmas biscuits and sausage gravy .........that was some of the best eatin

you aren't kidding I miss them almost as much as Grandma herself :thumbs:

Spider
07-05-2009, 04:40 PM
you aren't kidding I miss them almost as much as Grandma herself :thumbs:

;D no doubt ......... I think the biggest difference is , Farm boys from our generation worked hard like bailin hay , to stacking hay in the barn and we did this for 12-14 hours a day ,to working in winter beddin down cattle and more bucking hey ( just not as much ;D ) our bodies was able to handle all those fried foods .....Grandma called it it putting meat on your ribs food ;D ....
Lifting for 2-3 hours a day just inst enough .......

meangene
07-05-2009, 05:52 PM
Since last november, I've been using Kettlebells with very good results.

My original intention was to lose weight, since the aim of kettlebell training is to do your strength work and cardio at the same time. The unexpected benefit is that I put on quite a bit of muscle in my back, shoulders, arms and legs.

The upside:

* The workouts are usually pretty short (10-20 minutes is not uncommon), so it works well for people who are very busy and don't have a lot of time for working out (in my case, I'm in a PhD program, so I don't have 2 hours to spend at the gym).

* The workouts are quite challenging, since you have to learn how to move your body in a different way in order to swing the weight.

* I have found few exercises that work my forearms like this (maybe dead lifts or olympic style lifts like clean and jerk).

* This is one of the few workouts I've seen that replicates what Spider was talking about above... i.e., if you don't have access to a hay farm, or if you live in the middle of the city in an apartment, and there's nothing to shovel, this is a really good alternative.

* I hate jogging and I hate cardio machines (but I enjoy sprinting), so this works very well for me. Could also be a good alternative for people who can't get outside to jog in the winter.

The downsides:

* this workout can be very dangerous... you could kill or badly injure yourself if you do it incorrectly (that said, the danger factor might be an upside, too :wiggle: )

* you probably need to get a trainer to teach you to it correctly, or else take a long time looking at internet videos to make sure you're doing the moves the way they're supposed to be done.

* the weights can be expensive, usually 65 or 70 bucks for a 35 lb weight, and then it moves up from there. That said, I really like the bells made by a company called CAP. Very good stuff and inexpensive. (on the other hand, a treadmill or elliptical will usually run you about 500 bucks or more, so the cost may be a push if you're looking at a wider comparison)

* this is hard, brutal work. You build up quite a bit of lactic acid during these workouts (so it can be very painful), and you develop calluses on your hands. Like I said above, this style of working out is probably the only thing that comes close to replicating work in the hay fields.

* this is not the sort of workout where you can let your attention wander. You really have to concentrate throughout the movements.

Anyway, I'm not knocking any person's way of working out. I'm just reporting that this worked really well for me.

If anyone is interested, here are a few sites that I have found useful:

www.artofstrength.com
www.dragondoor.com
http://www.liftkettlebells.com/
http://www.crossfit.com/

I've used the kettle bells and they can kick your ass!

broncogary
07-05-2009, 07:21 PM
;D no doubt ......... I think the biggest difference is , Farm boys from our generation worked hard like bailin hay , to stacking hay in the barn and we did this for 12-14 hours a day ,to working in winter beddin down cattle and more bucking hey ( just not as much ;D ) our bodies was able to handle all those fried foods .....Grandma called it it putting meat on your ribs food ;D ....
Lifting for 2-3 hours a day just inst enough .......

I know you're good with the sheep. How were you with the cattle? Ha!

oubronco
07-05-2009, 07:59 PM
I know you're good with the sheep. How were you with the cattle? Ha!

:spit:

slyinky
07-05-2009, 08:11 PM
;D no doubt ......... I think the biggest difference is , Farm boys from our generation worked hard like bailin hay , to stacking hay in the barn and we did this for 12-14 hours a day ,to working in winter beddin down cattle and more bucking hey ( just not as much ;D ) our bodies was able to handle all those fried foods .....Grandma called it it putting meat on your ribs food ;D ....
Lifting for 2-3 hours a day just inst enough .......

I have to disagree that buckin' bales is that great of a workout. A lot of it is technique. Using your leg etc. I used to buck bales every summer from the age of 11 until I graduated high school. All summer until two-a-days football practice started and the practices were still killer. Not saying it didn't help strength wise but it still was no substitute for weight training.

Speaking of food. There was this old farmer that I used to work for every summer that had about 10,000 bales and every lunch was like thanksgiving. His wife would be working on it from the time I arrived in the morning. Some of the best food I have ever had but damn was it hard to get back out there in the heat after chowing down all that grub.

whatsgolden
07-05-2009, 08:13 PM
kettle bells are crazy effective.

I know it sounds silly, but I ordered P90x from TV. It's the most intense workout I've ever done. Basically an hour to an hour & a half every day.

Each day it's something different. M,W,F is hardcore muscle training and T,TH,S is hardcore cardio work (plyometrics, kickboxing, yoga)

I've never ordered something from TV. In fact, I think most of that stuff is a ripoff. It wasn't until after I saw a buddies results that I even considered P90x. I'm 5 weeks in, and have a visible difference, and all my clothes are loose. Do your research, though. I think it's the best $100 I've ever spent.

UberBroncoMan
07-05-2009, 08:47 PM
I do 20-22 min cardio (high intesity interval training)... 5 min warm up at jog pace - 1 min max speed at 1 setting higher than the jog - then 2 minutes back at jog speed - keep the cycle going until your final sprint where you go 2 settings higher and go balls to the wall - then you end with a 3-5 min jog.

Always do cardio after weights as well.

As for weights... I find resistance training to be the best. I do have dumbells which I use, but...

http://www.bodylastics.com/order.html these things are ****ing awesome. ATM I use the maximum tension set.

For protein powder this **** is the best on the market imo.

http://store.bsnonline.net/detail/syntha6.html

I wouldn't get it from their store though... there are a lot cheaper outlets online.

Also, since you didn't mention eating habbits too much. I'd suggest eating 5-6 times a day... but in portions that would equate to what you'd normally do in 3 meals.

Also remember to have protein before cardio if you're trying to lose weight AND gain muscle. If you don't your body will actually steal protein from your muscles to fuel yourself. Eseentially you could actually lose muscle (along with fat) from cardio if you don't do it right... and agan I stress if you do cardio DO NOT DO MARATHONS (aka jog for 30 min to an hour). It does vastly more harm than good if you're going for muscle growth.

I have a friend who swears by working out 4 days in a row and resting on the 5th (then repeating). At the moment though I work out Tuesday - Friday - Sunday - and I cardio every single day for 20-22 minutes.

Also as others said 1g of protein per lb is a good idea for starters. I'd go up to 1.2 if pumping da irons becomes a common hobby though.

I also take a muti-vitamin, calcium, and fishoil pill every day.

.... oh and if you really want to get THE PUMP.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yNEWuwOtGqA&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yNEWuwOtGqA&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Good luck.

Spider
07-05-2009, 10:06 PM
I have to disagree that buckin' bales is that great of a workout. A lot of it is technique. Using your leg etc. I used to buck bales every summer from the age of 11 until I graduated high school. All summer until two-a-days football practice started and the practices were still killer. Not saying it didn't help strength wise but it still was no substitute for weight training. depends on how high your ties are ......
we would go 5 high on a 4 foot tall wagon 90 to 110 pound bails , unless it rained , then those damn things were heavy .....
Speaking of food. There was this old farmer that I used to work for every summer that had about 10,000 bales and every lunch was like thanksgiving. His wife would be working on it from the time I arrived in the morning. Some of the best food I have ever had but damn was it hard to get back out there in the heat after chowing down all that grub.
Yeah ;D never eat a big lunch ......

Spider
07-05-2009, 10:07 PM
I know you're good with the sheep. How were you with the cattle? Ha!

LOL **** you

KillerBronco#76
07-05-2009, 10:50 PM
i dont know about all this farming **** but working in a fireworks warehouse from 6 am till 2:30 ( sometimes it wasn't that bad but filling up 53"'rs all day was a b**** considering everything was moved by dolly and hand), followed up by college football pratice and weightlifting from 3:30 til 6:30 during summers were a blast. Really the worst were firecrackers, damn 70 pound boxes and they were tiny so there would usually be 500-1000 in a truck added with the other **** they bought. then you had the risk of the 35" stack of fire work you were standing on falling over when you went to grab them from the top for 7$ an hour. I feel like there should have been hazard pay or something... but youd be surprised how much abuse fireworks can take used to toss em down from the top of the ware house and the boxes would slam on the floor as long as there isnt a lighter around their surprisingly safe.


but anyway yea creatine is the best you can take next to roids dont know anyone who took HGH so i can't speak for it. As far as slimming up caffeine and running mixed the most effective i know.

ZONA
07-06-2009, 01:31 AM
I don't take my protein on a pre-workout or post-workout schedule. The body can only absorb 30grams every 2 hours. I eat 20-30grams of protein every 2 hours, along with a few carbs for energy. I used to use double scoops on my protein powder, throwing down 60grams every 2 hours until I found this out. That myth of needing to consume your body weight in protein per day is not totally accurate. It all depends on how evenly you consume it. You can't skip meals and then try to make up for it the rest of the day.

One thing is for sure. Anybody I've been around eating this much, taking protein powder and other supplements, they all fart alot. Go to any gym to the heavy weights area where big dudes are lifting and you can smell it.

ZONA
07-06-2009, 01:39 AM
;D yeah I dont look like that , but I do have some impressive guns ;D

I've got to say, when guys talk about big arms, they always refer to them as "guns". I've always heard that term also. Wonder how it got started.

zdoor
07-06-2009, 07:22 AM
Been a gym rat since I was a kid. Trained guys for various sports on the side for several years now...

Spider
07-06-2009, 07:28 AM
I've got to say, when guys talk about big arms, they always refer to them as "guns". I've always heard that term also. Wonder how it got started.

I dont know ........

FantomForce
07-06-2009, 08:08 AM
Listen if your goal is to trim down and be lean the first thing you have to concentrate on is your diet that is what kills everyone. Then you need to have at least 30 min cardio at least 3 times a week. Then once you hit your weight routine the most important thing is to stay dedicated.

Kaylore
07-06-2009, 08:56 AM
You actually don't need as much protein as people are suggesting. Your body weight is mostly water and when you factor in bone, fat and other non lean muscle tissues, the calculation doesn't make much sense.

Proven nutrition science shows that too much protein not only does nothing for you after a certain point (It will just break down into glucose (energy) once amino absorption limits are reached which can cause excessive calories), but it also can cause weight gain and kidney stones. Statistically they found the average person needs .8 grams of protein per kilo of body weight per day if you are not exercising. Someone exercising shouldn't need more than 1 to 1.2 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight if you exercise pretty regularly.

Someone 125 lbs = 62.5 grams of protein
165lbs = 82.5 grams
200lbs = 100 grams
220lbs = 110 grams and so on

Protein companies will tell you to take more so you use and buy more of their product faster. Try and find the type of body you're looking for. If you want tons of mass than you'll probably have to do more protein and take other supplements. To get a nice body that is defined and cut, you don't need these enormous amounts of protein people are suggesting. There is no data to support it and excessive protein often can hinder your ability to lose the fat you're also trying to burn off.

Garcia Bronco
07-06-2009, 08:57 AM
I do. I do 12 ounce curls.

dbfan21
07-06-2009, 09:05 AM
kettle bells are crazy effective.

I know it sounds silly, but I ordered P90x from TV. It's the most intense workout I've ever done. Basically an hour to an hour & a half every day.

Each day it's something different. M,W,F is hardcore muscle training and T,TH,S is hardcore cardio work (plyometrics, kickboxing, yoga)

I've never ordered something from TV. In fact, I think most of that stuff is a ripoff. It wasn't until after I saw a buddies results that I even considered P90x. I'm 5 weeks in, and have a visible difference, and all my clothes are loose. Do your research, though. I think it's the best $100 I've ever spent.

QFT. P90x may look like infomercial garbage, but it is for real. If you commit to that workout for 90 days and eat right with maybe some creatine supplements to aid with muscle recovery, you will be a noticably different person physically. My buddy has been doing it for almost 6 months and he is so damned ripped, it isn't funny.

5 weeks ago, I started a similar workout (as the P90x) at my gym. Plyometrics, cardio, strength training, the whole 9 yards. It focuses on intense activity for short intervals (60 seconds) and very short breaks (30 seconds) in between. There are 8 stations and 3 exercises per station. The exercises target every musle group in the upper and lower body. In about 45 minutes you workout is done...and so are you. I almost threw up the first few times I did it due to the intensity. And I was in good shape before, but in even better shape now. We do use the kettlebells in these exercise...they get GREAT results!!

I also take CE2 creatine, made my MRI. It works pretty good as far as muscle repair and volume.

jsco70
07-06-2009, 09:11 AM
I lift 3x per week, while the other days are cardio...biking, jogging, swimming, basketball, etc. As for my lifiting, I alternate days between push or pull exercises.

Push - bench, shoulder press, triceps, leg press, etc
Pull - lats, biceps, pull ups, leg curls, etc

I mix in ab work, and various other lifts to keep my routine from getting stale. I use lighter weights with more reps to stay lean and increase endurance.

zdoor
07-06-2009, 10:12 AM
QFT. P90x may look like infomercial garbage, but it is for real. If you commit to that workout for 90 days and eat right with maybe some creatine supplements to aid with muscle recovery, you will be a noticably different person physically. My buddy has been doing it for almost 6 months and he is so damned ripped, it isn't funny.

5 weeks ago, I started a similar workout (as the P90x) at my gym. Plyometrics, cardio, strength training, the whole 9 yards. It focuses on intense activity for short intervals (60 seconds) and very short breaks (30 seconds) in between. There are 8 stations and 3 exercises per station. The exercises target every musle group in the upper and lower body. In about 45 minutes you workout is done...and so are you. I almost threw up the first few times I did it due to the intensity. And I was in good shape before, but in even better shape now. We do use the kettlebells in these exercise...they get GREAT results!!

I also take CE2 creatine, made my MRI. It works pretty good as far as muscle repair and volume.

Not suggesting that the workout is good or bad because I'm not familiar with it, but most decent workout programs combined with a good diet will give very noticable results to a novice lifter in 90 days. Diet is most important to get results along with consistency in the gym. I also like to mix it up and try different workouts to avoid boredom and keep the body guessing.

It's not the rocket science most make it out to be. Going past the point of what most consider to be "good shape" is where it gets harder and takes some specialized training. Kettlebells are the shiznit though...

ZONA
07-06-2009, 10:24 AM
One thing I have been reading the last day on many lifting forums is that the target rep range for building mass is 6-8 reps with heavy weight. If you can do it 10 times, you need to either go heavier or go slower. I think I will try a mix of both. One workout I will go with heavy at a normal pace for 6 reps, the next workout a little lighter but slower.

chawknz
07-06-2009, 10:32 AM
Now for the pumping iron talk. I don't believe half the articles I read on the web. I'd like to get some of your routines and see what you do. I always kinda felt like I over-trained when I did this last. Giving muscles only 1 day to rest in between workouts. So what's your routine?

I recently finished the Power90 program and have moved on to the P90X program. 6 Days a week, Alternating between workout types and cardio.

It's always good form to let whatever muscles you worked out have a days rest before working them again. Weight lifting causes them to tear, and when you sleep, they rebuild themselves stronger. Working them out back to back will cause more harm than good.

Love the P90 programs. I hate going to the gym and I hate running outside in hot weather (or cold). These videos show you exactly what to do and you don't need to invest in much. I use resistance bands over dumbbells (although I will be getting dumbbells soon) and they work great.

zdoor
07-06-2009, 10:43 AM
One thing I have been reading the last day on many lifting forums is that the target rep range for building mass is 6-8 reps with heavy weight. If you can do it 10 times, you need to either go heavier or go slower. I think I will try a mix of both. One workout I will go with heavy at a normal pace for 6 reps, the next workout a little lighter but slower.

Definitely true but varies some depending on the individual. Also as you get up there in age you need to be quite a bit more careful with heavy weight. The body changes at about 30 again at 35 and again when you clip 40.

I also like using negative reps for mass once you've worked out for a while ( a year or more consistently. Put 10% more than you can lift on the bar with at least 2 spotters and fight it on the way down, spotters help you back up and go again. Do 3-4 reps for 2 sets. It will help you break plateaus. Don't do it more than once a month though...

azbroncfan
07-06-2009, 10:48 AM
I pump 12 oz, rotating in 16 oz curls, then couple times a week go heavy and lift 24 or 32 oz curls.

DenverFanMan6
07-06-2009, 11:00 AM
when i lift i use a pre workout like superpump or blackpowder or any NO suppliment. then when i workout i usually have an energy drink because it helps pump up your workout and is not bad for you up to 180 mg of caffine.after i use monster milk and it really seems to work well. for just around the house i use CLA it is a natural suppliment that comes from a plant and is proven to burn fat around the mid section.

tsiguy96
07-06-2009, 11:02 AM
when i lift i use a pre workout like superpump or blackpowder or any NO suppliment. then when i workout i usually have an energy drink because it helps pump up your workout and is not bad for you up to 180 mg of caffine.after i use monster milk and it really seems to work well. for just around the house i use CLA it is a natural suppliment that comes from a plant and is proven to burn fat around the mid section.

i dont think thats true....

DenverFanMan6
07-06-2009, 11:03 AM
also when i workout i do alot of isolation like doing dumbell bench one side at a time it seems to work your chest better and the opposite side like your obliques. you can do that with anything it works awesome

DenverBroncosJM
07-06-2009, 11:10 AM
So do you slam a coffee or caffeine drink before going to the gym? As for the Creatine, dude, you have to try this stuff I am taking. I took traditional Creatine for the longest time. It worked, but way too many side effects (cramps, bloating) and I hated taking it.

This stuff is working just as well as the old creatine I took but I don't have any side effects at all. No loading, no bloating, cramps, nothing.

Kre Alkalyn 1500

Read this - actually goes into details on how it's made and why it works.

Kre Alkalyn Creatine Review


Kre Alkalyn creatine has been on the market for awhile now. Although many have probably tried this new form of creatine, many more probably still have not. I was originally introduced to Scifit's Kre Alkalyn 1500 creatine caps by my contact at Sci-Fit - of course I've heard of kre alkalyn creatine long before that time, however, I was skeptical, and didn't pay much attention to it.

At that time, how could I believe such claims that:

* Taking 1g of Kre Alkalyn creatine is equivalent of taking 10g of normal creatine, and
* Kre Alkalyn creatine is stable in water because its PH buffered!

I didn't believe these claims, and didn't bother to. My initial thoughts were "just some new marketing scam... etc." I remember some representative of Kre Alkalyn (not sure if this person was from a licensed company, or from the direct manufacturer) that came on our chat boards promoting Kre Alkalyn creatine - boy, did he get a face full of dirt. =)

Long story short, I was convinced to give KreAlkalyn Creatine a shot, and after that, I really had to change my views on this new type of creatine.


What is KreAlkalyn Creatine?
Kre Alkalyn was discovered by Jeff Golini, who also discovered Arginine Alpha Ketoglutarate (AAKG), a nitric oxide amplifying agent. Jeff introduced a new product testing technology called NIR (near infrared analysis), which is now heavily used in the pharmaceutical and supplement industry. Kre Alkalyn Creatine was discovered while doing routine purity and stability tests on creatine using NIR. Kre Alkalyn was eventually awarded US patent #6,399,661.

The research provided to receive this patent had shown that creatine's speed of conversion to creatinine is related to the pH of the liquid used for mixing - I'm sure most of us know that creatine breaks down to creatinine when mixed in liquid, which is a useless compound. The research demonstrated that the lower the pH, the faster creatine converts to creatinine, and it also found that conversion rate to creatinine slows as the pH of the creatine itself is raised above 7. At a pH of 12, creatine stops converting to creatinine.

So essentially, Kre Alkalyn Creatine is a pH buffered creatine with a pH above 12. As a result, it remains stable when mixed with liquid. What significance does this have for bodybuilding? With a buffered pH, the Kre Alkalyn creatine we consume remains completely stable and reaches muscle cells at full strength.


Kre Alkalyn Creatine Side Effects & Benefits

With the above said, there are some key benefits of Kre Alkalyn Creatine. With a pH buffered creatine:

* You only need to take very small amounts - 1 to 3 grams per day is plenty
* You will notice the same types of results as normal creatine (if not better).
* Some individuals tend to get bloated with creatine monohydrate, but with Kre Alkalyn, there's no bloating. While I can't vouch for this since I don't bloat with regular creatine, but I've had many users tell me that they don't bloat with Kre Alkalyn creatine.
* Some individuals also tend to get upset stomach with regular creatine, but with Kre Alkalyn creatine, that shouldn't be a problem anymore.

My Experience with SciFit Kre Alkalyn 1500

Like I said above, I was skeptical about KreAlkalyn at start, but was convinced to give it a shot by my contact at Sci-Fit. He told me it was a very new product at SciFit, that it works, that I only need to take very small amounts, and yadiyadiyada... So, I ordered 2 bottles of Sci-Fit Kre Alkalyn 1500.

Each bottle of Kre Alkalyn 1500 has 120 caps, and the bottle instructions suggested 1 to 2 caps twice daily. So setup my schedule to take 2 caps 30mins before workout, and 2 caps after workout. This works out such that each bottle lasts me a month. After just the first 3 to 4 days, I start noticing the effects - just like any other creatine! Except the fact that I'm only taking 2 caps each serving, or only 1.5grams per serving.

So in short, Kre Alkalyn works, and works great - all its claims are true as well. I was quite surprised myself how well it worked. As well, Kre Alkalyn creatine's benefits such as no bloating and no upset stomachs is a major plus for individuals who tend to get bloated and/or get upset stomachs with regular creatine.

Considering the fact that you only need to take small amounts of Kre Alkalyn per serving (1 to 2 grams), this is the only creatine product that I would ever buy in pill form. I can't imaging downing 5 to 8 pills of regular creatine pills each serving! Taking only 1 to 2 pills of kre alkalyn is very manageable - the pills are quite small. Another plus of Kre Alkalyn is that it isn't expensive at all. SciFit's Kre Alkalyn 1500 (120 cap bottle) goes for around $30 at retail, but you can get it online for only $25.




Kre-Alkalyn 1500

Ill give Kre Alkalyn a big ups also it works really good, really really good.

I also dont do Isolation moves. I do almost all compound lifts. Deads, Bench, Pull Ups, Squats, Seated Row etc etc. Every once in awhile Ill do some curls just to do them.

Just do me a favor and save us both some heartache dont do curls, shoulder shrugs in the SQUAT RACK!

DenverFanMan6
07-06-2009, 10:29 PM
Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA) is a naturally occurring fatty acid that is present in cheese and ground beef (types of food often excluded when restricting dietary intake).
Pro Performance® CLA is 100% CLA derived from safflower seeds, a premium dietary source.
Each capsule supplies 1,000mg of CLA, made from clinically studied Tonalin™, one of the highest quality linoleic acids available.
Easy-to-swallow softgel capsules.
here is what i found on gnc and i know it gets rid of fat around the waist because i use it
<!--ProdDisclaimr: |No|-->

tsiguy96
07-06-2009, 10:42 PM
Conjugated Linoleic Acid (CLA) is a naturally occurring fatty acid that is present in cheese and ground beef (types of food often excluded when restricting dietary intake).
Pro Performance® CLA is 100% CLA derived from safflower seeds, a premium dietary source.
Each capsule supplies 1,000mg of CLA, made from clinically studied Tonalin™, one of the highest quality linoleic acids available.
Easy-to-swallow softgel capsules.
here is what i found on gnc and i know it gets rid of fat around the waist because i use it
<!--ProdDisclaimr: |No|-->

not gonna say there is NOTHING absolutely , but as far as i know, havent seen anything that can just remove fat at a designated spot i.e midsection

people store fat differently, but you cant spot burn fat, even with exercise. doing situps doesnt make your stomach smaller, losing total bodyfat % will. i have heard of a lot of people taking CLA however, and there is some studies showing it works, but it doesnt just target fat at the midsection, and is not a wonder drug by any means.

http://www.criticalbench.com/cla-supplement-review.htm

tsiguy96
07-06-2009, 10:44 PM
Ill give Kre Alkalyn a big ups also it works really good, really really good.

I also dont do Isolation moves. I do almost all compound lifts. Deads, Bench, Pull Ups, Squats, Seated Row etc etc. Every once in awhile Ill do some curls just to do them.

Just do me a favor and save us both some heartache dont do curls, shoulder shrugs in the SQUAT RACK!

when youre shrugging 5 plates there really is no where else to do it!!!

DenverFanMan6
07-07-2009, 12:45 AM
i am not going to argue i am just saying it helps with fat around the waist but it does not just target ur mid section but helps with that noticeable.
also i don't only do isolation i do regular bench but i mix in isolation with those workouts .

Willynowei
07-07-2009, 01:51 AM
Don't forget to intake carbs. Balance is key.

My measure of protein is a lot more conservative than other posters on this thread it seems.

For me its roughly .75 grams to every pound of lean weight on your body; ie, 15% body fat at 200; 170 pounds of non fat weight; thats 90 grams of protein intake every day.

Lower weights, more reps for definition, higher weights lower reps for mass.

Over working can be worse than not working out at all, working out and not eating is worse than both overworking and not working out.

Sleeping and proper diet are more important than the hours you spend in the gym.

Finally, just about every study shows that most of the time its better off to workout BY YOUR SELF.

ZONA
07-07-2009, 03:07 AM
Definitely true but varies some depending on the individual. Also as you get up there in age you need to be quite a bit more careful with heavy weight. The body changes at about 30 again at 35 and again when you clip 40.

I also like using negative reps for mass once you've worked out for a while ( a year or more consistently. Put 10% more than you can lift on the bar with at least 2 spotters and fight it on the way down, spotters help you back up and go again. Do 3-4 reps for 2 sets. It will help you break plateaus. Don't do it more than once a month though...

The body does change but genetics play a huge role in that, as well as how long a person has kept a good healthy body (working out and diet). Some people just age better then others.

I have done negative reps before and your are correct, they work well. Alot of people don't do them because they don't want to bother with spotters. No matter, there are still ways to get around that for some exercises. For example, doing curls, you can isolate and do single arm negative curls and use your other arm to help you bring the weight back up to the top. You can do the same for triceps and shoulders. Kinda hard to do it for bench or flys though. I've also done this on the leg press, doing a single leg at a time and using the other to help push it back up. The only draw back to isolation is that your workout doubles in time duration.

Mediator12
07-07-2009, 08:58 AM
Why do you want the mass versus fitness again? I am wondering...

zdoor
07-07-2009, 12:52 PM
Why do you want the mass versus fitness again? I am wondering...

Different strokes....

There is a little fun associated with being bigger than most...

Beantown Bronco
07-07-2009, 01:11 PM
There is a little fun associated with being bigger than most...

Sounds like you've been talking to Mrs. Bean about me again.

elsid13
07-07-2009, 04:25 PM
Why do you want the mass versus fitness again? I am wondering...

He tired of the bullies kicking sand in his face at the beach. ;D

TheReverend
07-07-2009, 04:33 PM
Sounds like you've been talking to Mrs. Bean about me again.

About that, can you ask her to stop PMing me from your account? It's getting obnoxious.

footstepsfrom#27
07-07-2009, 04:38 PM
Also as you get up there in age you need to be quite a bit more careful with heavy weight. The body changes at about 30 again at 35 and again when you clip 40.
At 20 we "pump iron".
At 30 we "lift weights".
At 40 we "work out".
At 50 we "stay in shape".
At 60 we "pursue a healthy lifestyle".
At 70 we "remain active".
At 80 we "live independently".
At 90 we're pushin' up daisies...hopefully. ;D

azbroncfan
07-07-2009, 04:40 PM
Why do you want the mass versus fitness again? I am wondering...

So that you can get fat easier later in life when your schedule is too busy to go to the gym. Plus the ed hardy/affliction/TapOut shirts look way cooler when you look like a meat head.