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View Full Version : Jay Cutler vs Kyle Orton 2009


rastaman
07-02-2009, 03:37 PM
I've wondered what Cutler's passing rating would have been had he not had to endure playing behind a patched up injury riddled inconsistent running attack where all 7 RB's suffered season ending injuries. Cutler found himself in countless 3rd and short and 3rd in long b/c there was no consistency with the running game. Opposing defenses new Cutler had no consistent running attack to speak of as well and they adjusted accordingly; and forced Cutler into making bad decisions and ill-advised passes.

We can all agree that Cutler is superior to Orton in every meaningful-measurable quarterbacking skill. Include, but are not limited to, arm strength, accuracy, mobility, touch, field vision and pocket awareness. If you had to deconstruct the position and examine all the necessary traits you're looking for in a QB, you'd have a tough time arguing that Orton is comparable to Cutler, anywhere.

Now that Orton has been traded to Denver and has more talent to play with on the Broncos, so shouldn't Kyle's stats improve dramatically in 2009?

If Kyle can stay sober, I'd say Orton must pass for btwn 3,700 to 3,900 yards, and 25-28 tds, and at least an 85%-90% passing rating or he has under performed and will retain his "Journeyman" status as a QB in the NFL. As the Bear's starting Qb last year, on a team w/o talent his passing stats were 2972 yds, 18 tds, & under 75% pass rating! He's finally in a situation to bloosom......he can't fail, you only get so many chances in the NFL. Also

Orton can't post the same stats he had while playing as a starter in Chicago here in Denver b/c now he's surrounded by talent and supposedly is playing for an "Offensive Genius"!

Cutler on the othe hand will Matt Forte's receiving skills, Forte had 63 catches last year while Greg Olsen and Desmond Clark combined for 95 receptions. Forte's running skills will also require defenses to play the Bears honestly and cheat. Lastly, when Devin Hester possesses the football, he's among the most dangerous men in the NFL. Yes I know his receiving skills are questionable and inconsistent but, he'll finally have a chance to work with an elite passer. Cutler will benefit playing behind Chicago's massively upgraded
O-line as well.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 04:03 PM
You don't have to be a genius to understand that Cutler is clearly a superior talent. But fortunately for Broncos fans there are other factors to consider.

First, Denver got not only Orton but two first round picks and a third round pick for Cutler.

Second, Orton will be playing is a system in Denver that better matches his abilities.

Third, Orton will be playing with better overall offensive talent surrounding him in Denver.

Fourth, Cutler will be playing in a system in Chicago that may not be the best match for his abilities.

Fifth, Cutler won't have as good of offensive talent around him in Chicago.

Sixth, on the negative side for Denver, the Bears have the better defense.

Conclusions: Orton will probably be considerably better than last year, depending some on how you measure "better". Cutler will probably be at least marginally worse than last year, again depending on the measurement.

BroncoBuff
07-02-2009, 04:04 PM
The hilarious part is that this thread would've LITERALLY gone to the Butt before Cutler-gate. It would've been thought beneath even Bob.

rastaman
07-02-2009, 04:26 PM
You don't have to be a genius to understand that Cutler is clearly a superior talent. But fortunately for Broncos fans there are other factors to consider.

First, Denver got not only Orton but two first round picks and a third round pick for Cutler.

Second, Orton will be playing is a system in Denver that better matches his abilities.

Third, Orton will be playing with better overall offensive talent surrounding him in Denver.

Fourth, Cutler will be playing in a system in Chicago that may not be the best match for his abilities.

Fifth, Cutler won't have as good of offensive talent around him in Chicago.

Sixth, on the negative side for Denver, the Bears have the better defense.

Conclusions: Orton will probably be considerably better than last year, depending some on how you measure "better". Cutler will probably be at least marginally worse than last year, again depending on the measurement.

What do you guess-to-mate Orton stats numbers will be for 2009 given all the attributes that favor Orton in McD's system?

BABronco
07-02-2009, 04:41 PM
Cutler will probably be at least marginally worse than last year, again depending on the measurement.

I expect Cutler to be somewhat better or the same (which be an improvement with the talent he has there). The reason is that its almost payday for him. Plus he will want to prove just how much he was worth (trade wise). Plus he has a decent running back which as stated earlier will take some pressure off of him.

I'm really not looking forward to watching Orton play in a bronco uni... all i gotta say is run run and run some more.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 04:49 PM
I expect Cutler to be somewhat better or the same.

He'll probably win more games but his numbers will be lower. Chi will throw the ball less assuming they play from behind less than Den did. Fewer pass attempts, fewer yards, fewer TD's, but also fewer INT's. Rating will probably be higher.

outdoor_miner
07-02-2009, 04:54 PM
I've wondered what Cutler's passing rating would have been had he not had to endure playing behind a patched up injury riddled inconsistent running attack where all 7 RB's suffered season ending injuries. Cutler found himself in countless 3rd and short and 3rd in long b/c there was no consistency with the running game. Opposing defenses new Cutler had no consistent running attack to speak of as well and they adjusted accordingly; and forced Cutler into making bad decisions and ill-advised passes.

You're right that it probably ultimately hurt his passer rating, but it greatly benefited his touchdowns and yardage. He got to chuck the ball all over the field at will, which is what he really wanted to do.

We can all agree that Cutler is superior to Orton in every meaningful-measurable quarterbacking skill. Include, but are not limited to, arm strength, accuracy, mobility, touch, field vision and pocket awareness. If you had to deconstruct the position and examine all the necessary traits you're looking for in a QB, you'd have a tough time arguing that Orton is comparable to Cutler, anywhere.

Completely agree. Cutler has far more skills than Orton. I like Orton, but there is no doubt that Cutler is a way better talent. None. Nada. Zilch.

Now that Orton has been traded to Denver and has more talent to play with on the Broncos, so shouldn't Kyle's stats improve dramatically in 2009?

If Kyle can stay sober, I'd say Orton must pass for btwn 3,700 to 3,900 yards, and 25-28 tds, and at least an 85%-90% passing rating or he has under performed and will retain his "Journeyman" status as a QB in the NFL. As the Bear's starting Qb last year, on a team w/o talent his passing stats were 2972 yds, 18 tds, & under 75% pass rating! He's finally in a situation to bloosom......he can't fail, you only get so many chances in the NFL. Also Orton can't post the same stats he had while playing as a starter in Chicago here in Denver b/c now he's surrounded by talent and supposedly is playing for an "Offensive Genius"!

eh - it depends. I think your touchdown numbers are a little high. New systems take time to implement, and if the Broncos have tremendous success running the ball, Orton may not rack up the stats. I do agree, though, that by the last 1/2 of the season, Orton needs to be looking better than he did in Chicago. Otherwise, I agree... Nothing more than a journeyman.

I'm hopeful, though. I think a good barometer is what Cassel did last year:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=8644

In my opinion, Orton needs to (at a minimum) equal those types of stats, and really should better them.

Cutler on the othe hand will Matt Forte's receiving skills, Forte had 63 catches last year while Greg Olsen and Desmond Clark combined for 95 receptions. Forte's running skills will also require defenses to play the Bears honestly and cheat. Lastly, when Devin Hester possesses the football, he's among the most dangerous men in the NFL. Yes I know his receiving skills are questionable and inconsistent but, he'll finally have a chance to work with an elite passer. Cutler will benefit playing behind Chicago's massively upgraded
O-line as well.

Well - this cuts both ways. Let's set some boundaries for calling Jay "elite", as many are so willing to already do. I say he needs to lead the Bears to a 13-3 record. He needs to put up similar or better numbers to last year. His yardage may go down, but he needs to have a similar number of touchdowns, less interceptions, a higher QB rating, and more importantly, lead the Bears to a #1 or #2 seed in the NFC. Anything less, and he is officially not an elite QB. With that defense and running game, the Bears have to be Super Bowl contenders.

BABronco
07-02-2009, 04:54 PM
He'll probably win more games but his numbers will be lower. Chi will throw the ball less assuming they play from behind less than Den did. Fewer pass attempts, fewer yards, fewer TD's, but also fewer INT's. Rating will probably be higher.

I agree with you on everything except the tds. I imagine they will want to play with their new toy near the endzone.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 05:05 PM
Cutler will benefit playing behind Chicago's massively upgraded O-line as well.

I'm not sure the upgrade even approaches "massive". And regardless that line is inferior to Denver's. Jay won't be the least sacked QB in the league this year, that much I'll guarantee you.

Atlas
07-02-2009, 05:07 PM
I've wondered what Cutler's passing rating would have been had he not had to endure playing behind a patched up injury riddled inconsistent running attack where all 7 RB's suffered season ending injuries. Cutler found himself in countless 3rd and short and 3rd in long b/c there was no consistency with the running game. Opposing defenses new Cutler had no consistent running attack to speak of as well and they adjusted accordingly; and forced Cutler into making bad decisions and ill-advised passes.

We can all agree that Cutler is superior to Orton in every meaningful-measurable quarterbacking skill. Include, but are not limited to, arm strength, accuracy, mobility, touch, field vision and pocket awareness. If you had to deconstruct the position and examine all the necessary traits you're looking for in a QB, you'd have a tough time arguing that Orton is comparable to Cutler, anywhere.

Now that Orton has been traded to Denver and has more talent to play with on the Broncos, so shouldn't Kyle's stats improve dramatically in 2009?

If Kyle can stay sober, I'd say Orton must pass for btwn 3,700 to 3,900 yards, and 25-28 tds, and at least an 85%-90% passing rating or he has under performed and will retain his "Journeyman" status as a QB in the NFL. As the Bear's starting Qb last year, on a team w/o talent his passing stats were 2972 yds, 18 tds, & under 75% pass rating! He's finally in a situation to bloosom......he can't fail, you only get so many chances in the NFL. Also

Orton can't post the same stats he had while playing as a starter in Chicago here in Denver b/c now he's surrounded by talent and supposedly is playing for an "Offensive Genius"!

Cutler on the othe hand will Matt Forte's receiving skills, Forte had 63 catches last year while Greg Olsen and Desmond Clark combined for 95 receptions. Forte's running skills will also require defenses to play the Bears honestly and cheat. Lastly, when Devin Hester possesses the football, he's among the most dangerous men in the NFL. Yes I know his receiving skills are questionable and inconsistent but, he'll finally have a chance to work with an elite passer. Cutler will benefit playing behind Chicago's massively upgraded
O-line as well.

Does it really matter? I mean Cutler's WRs in Chicago are mediocre at best. If Chicago goes 11-5, 12-4 I don't think they'll give a **** what Cutler's stats were.

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 05:07 PM
i wonder if this post could be more biased towards cutler in any possible way. youre such a ****ing hater, its crazy. why set yourself up to eat crow if this team has 10 wins? call the ****ing whaaaaambulance for rasta-future-bears-fan-man

The Joker
07-02-2009, 05:09 PM
Cutler will have more yards, more TD's and more INT's.

Orton will have a better completion percentage (mostly due to the system, in fairness) and a better TD/INT ratio.

I say Cutler to have 23 TD's - 16 INT's - 3,900 yards.

Orton to have 19 TD's - 12 INT's - 3,100 yards.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 06:22 PM
Cutler will have more yards, more TD's and more INT's.

I say Cutler to have 23 TD's - 16 INT's - 3,900 yards.


You said more yards but predicted less (3,900 vs. 4,526). You said more TD's but predicted less (23 vs. 25). You said more INT's but predicted less 16 vs. 18).

Br0nc0Buster
07-02-2009, 06:24 PM
You said more yards but predicted less (3,900 vs. 4,526). You said more TD's but predicted less (23 vs. 25). You said more INT's but predicted less 16 vs. 18).

I think he is comparing that to what Orton will get

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 06:27 PM
You said more yards but predicted less (3,900 vs. 4,526). You said more TD's but predicted less (23 vs. 25). You said more INT's but predicted less 16 vs. 18).

Read the thread title. Learn concept of thread. Re-approach his post.

:D

TonyR
07-02-2009, 06:31 PM
I think he is comparing that to what Orton will get

I think you're right...

TonyR
07-02-2009, 06:35 PM
Read the thread title. Learn concept of thread. Re-approach his post.


Yes, you're right, the thread title does suggest a comparison between their respective projected/expected performances/stats. However, the OP itself does not necessarily. He talks about Orton's stats improving and hints that Cutler is in a better situation implying that his should also improve, but he's less explicit about Cutler than Orton.

Bob's your Information Minister
07-02-2009, 06:36 PM
Seriously. Why bother with this thread?

We're talking about KYLE ****ING ORTON here. KYLE ****ING ORTON. Has that sunk in to any of you yet?

KYLE ****ING ORTON.

Orton will be lucky to post numbers as good as Matt Cassel's. Try to be realistic.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 06:37 PM
Yes, you're right, the thread title does suggest a comparison between their respective projected/expected performances/stats. However, the OP itself does not necessarily. He talks about Orton's stats improving and hints that Cutler is in a better situation implying that his should also improve, but he's less explicit about Cutler than Orton.

It's okay. Coming up for a game this season?

Popps
07-02-2009, 06:43 PM
Yea, Cutler had it rough...

-One of the best lines in football
-Arguably THE best LT in football
-One of the best offensive play-callers in football
-One of the best receiving corps in football

Poor guy. If he only had the silver-platter situation QBs like Orton have been privy to.

If this dork was a "franchise" player, we wouldn't be making excuses for his ass. Elway didn't need excuses. THAT is what a franchise QB does with marginal talent around him... not crap down his leg against a mediocre team, at home, with the playoffs on the line.

Cutler's a talented QB, physically... but let's get real about all of the obstacles he had to overcome.

rastaman
07-02-2009, 07:02 PM
Yea, Cutler had it rough...

-One of the best lines in football
-Arguably THE best LT in football
-One of the best offensive play-callers in football
-One of the best receiving corps in football

Poor guy. If he only had the silver-platter situation QBs like Orton have been privy to.

If this dork was a "franchise" player, we wouldn't be making excuses for his ass. Elway didn't need excuses. THAT is what a franchise QB does with marginal talent around him... not crap down his leg against a mediocre team, at home, with the playoffs on the line.

Cutler's a talented QB, physically... but let's get real about all of the obstacles he had to overcome.

Oh well, your "Boy" Orton shouldn't have any problems nor excuses in 2009......right! B/c he ain't in Chicago anymore. This should be Orton's coming out party.

Suddenly Kyle finds himself with:
-One of the best lines in football
-Arguably THE best LT in football
-One of the best offensive play-callers in football
-One of the best receiving corps in football
-Top 5 RB in the draft

Orton should be able to pass for over 3600 yds, 25-30 TD's, and pct, 85-100%

Remember Pops......no more excuses for Orton in 2009????

Hercules Rockefeller
07-02-2009, 07:09 PM
Orton will be lucky to post numbers as good as Matt Cassel's. Try to be realistic.

Please name me a single player currently on offense for the Chiefs who would start in Denver this season, or New England last season?

The only one could possibly be Bowe in Denver as the 2nd WR, and not a single player on the Chiefs starts on offense in New England.

Cassel is going to be hard-pressed to match Orton's numbers this year, not the other way around.

Try again Boba Fett.

Popps
07-02-2009, 07:11 PM
Oh well, your "Boy" Orton

Who ever said Orton was "my boy?"

Did I ever say that? In fact, go back a bit... and I thought Simms had every chance to win the job. Turns out, Orton's experience in the system probably made him a better choice.



Suddenly Kyle finds himself with:
-One of the best lines in football
-Arguably THE best LT in football
-One of the best offensive play-callers in football
-One of the best receiving corps in football
-Top 5 RB in the draft

Orton should be able to pass for over 3600 yds, 25-30 TD's, and pct, 85-100%

Orton will indeed have those things.

He'll also be playing with an offense learning a new system, and he'll be building chemistry with his receivers.

"Excuses?"

Why would anyone need excuses for Orton. He hasn't thrown a pass yet. At the end of the season, we can recount his work in the system, and decide what we've got.

As for your silly premise built on silly stats, maybe you should stick with Madden. Cutler's fancy stats got him (us) jack ****. Maybe it was because he was almost last in the league at taking care of the ball? I guess that's O.K. since he had good fantasy football yardage numbers, huh?

Who the **** cares what Orton's yardage stats are? Just take care of the ball, lead TD drives, don't turn it over and play within the system.

Beyond that, this whole Orton v. Cutler thing is just idiotic. You're comparing a system QB to a highly talented guy... who may or may not have winning intangibles. They'll be asked to do very different things. Comparing them is just silly.

A better question might be why you're more concerned about obsessing with QB yardage stats than "your" team winning.

hambone13
07-02-2009, 07:12 PM
Please name me a single player currently on offense for the Chiefs who would start in Denver this season, or New England last season?

The only one could possibly be Bowe in Denver as the 2nd WR, and not a single player on the Chiefs starts on offense in New England.

Cassel is going to be hard-pressed to match Orton's numbers this year, not the other way around.

Try again Boba Fett.

I'd be hard pressed to say Bowe wouldn't be the number 1 here even if BM was here...it would be a competition 2 be sure. Bad argument.

Popps
07-02-2009, 07:14 PM
Cutler on the othe hand will Matt Forte's receiving skills, Forte had 63 catches last year while Greg Olsen and Desmond Clark combined for 95 receptions. Forte's running skills will also require defenses to play the Bears honestly and cheat. Lastly, when Devin Hester possesses the football, he's among the most dangerous men in the NFL. Yes I know his receiving skills are questionable and inconsistent but, he'll finally have a chance to work with an elite passer. Cutler will benefit playing behind Chicago's massively upgraded
O-line as well.

Good lord dude, that's just embarrassing to read. Why don't you find yourself a nice Bears forum and get a good circle-jerk going over there.

BroncoBuff
07-02-2009, 07:15 PM
Oh well, your "Boy" Orton shouldn't have any problems nor excuses in 2009......right! B/c he ain't in Chicago anymore. This should be Orton's coming out party.

Suddenly Kyle finds himself with:
-One of the best lines in football
-Arguably THE best LT in football
-One of the best offensive play-callers in football
-One of the best receiving corps in football
-Top 5 RB in the draft

Orton should be able to pass for over 3600 yds, 25-30 TD's, and pct, 85-100%

Remember Pops......no more excuses for Orton in 2009????

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ZYEvkPRJ7VI/R0NYTLhD4LI/AAAAAAAAABY/y_LiEsMrn7U/s1600/ohsnap.jpg



REP baby .... nothin' like snapping down those low-brow rationalizations. Especially when they're trying to compare Orton to Cutler.

BroncoBuff
07-02-2009, 07:18 PM
Who ever said Orton was "my boy?"

Just as always ... you get smacked down and you can't just laugh and let it go. What's up with that? ???

rbackfactory80
07-02-2009, 07:18 PM
Good lord dude, that's just embarrassing to read. Why don't you find yourself a nice Bears forum and get a good circle-jerk going over there.


It really is. Rastaman light up another and talk to me after the Bears miss another post season.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-02-2009, 07:18 PM
I'd be hard pressed to say Bowe wouldn't be the number 1 here even if BM was here...it would be a competition 2 be sure. Bad argument.

If the only position there'd be competition for is the #1 WR spot, then no, it is not a bad argument. Still means that the only guy on the Chiefs who would start in Denver is Bowe, whether it's as the #1 or #2 WR.

hambone13
07-02-2009, 07:22 PM
If the only position there'd be competition for is the #1 WR spot, then no, it is not a bad argument. Still means that the only guy on the Chiefs who would start in Denver is Bowe, whether it's as the #1 or #2 WR.

It was too concise a response on my part. I'm just saying, Bowe is a stud in the making from what I've seen. He's made things happen despite the lack of talent around him.

Br0nc0Buster
07-02-2009, 07:22 PM
Oh well, your "Boy" Orton shouldn't have any problems nor excuses in 2009......right! B/c he ain't in Chicago anymore. This should be Orton's coming out party.

Suddenly Kyle finds himself with:
-One of the best lines in football
-Arguably THE best LT in football
-One of the best offensive play-callers in football
-One of the best receiving corps in football
-Top 5 RB in the draft

Orton should be able to pass for over 3600 yds, 25-30 TD's, and pct, 85-100%

Remember Pops......no more excuses for Orton in 2009????

Why would Orton need to accomplish those to be deemed a success?
Throwing as much as we did is not really an ideal way to go especially with our defense

The additions of Quin and Moreno point to more running in 09, a lot more

Br0nc0Buster
07-02-2009, 07:24 PM
It was too concise a response on my part. I'm just saying, Bowe is a stud in the making from what I've seen. He's made things happen despite the lack of talent around him.

he cant break tackles like Marshall and he drops just as many passes as he did only his arm wasnt sliced in half.

I have seen more Chiefs games than Broncos unfortunately, Bowe is good, but nowhere near Marshall's level.

BroncoBuff
07-02-2009, 07:27 PM
Why would Orton need to accomplish those to be deemed a success?
Throwing as much as we did is not really an ideal way to go especially with our defense

The additions of Quin and Moreno point to more running in 09, a lot more

Whooosh over your head ... ;D ... rastaman wasn't stating that as his own opinion, he was flipping Popps' tortured rationalization back around on him. It was actually a fairly ingenius dialectic slap-down of poor Popps' polemic, rationalizing arse.

Oh snap!

hambone13
07-02-2009, 07:30 PM
he cant break tackles like Marshall and he drops just as many passes as he did only his arm wasnt sliced in half.

I have seen more Chiefs games than Broncos unfortunately, Bowe is good, but nowhere near Marshall's level.

He definitely dropped passes but so did Marshall last year. Not sure how their stats compare frankly. He certainly can't break tackles like Marshall but who can? He doesn't need to w/ his open field speed. I'm just saying, I'm not sure who would win the number 1. I think they're both studs....it's about who's gonna win the long term battle and I think he's a legitimate contender to be better than Marshall...

Br0nc0Buster
07-02-2009, 07:37 PM
He definitely dropped passes but so did Marshall last year. Not sure how their stats compare frankly. He certainly can't break tackles like Marshall but who can? He doesn't need to w/ his open field speed. I'm just saying, I'm not sure who would win the number 1. I think they're both studs....it's about who's gonna win the long term battle and I think he's a legitimate contender to be better than Marshall...

I would be willing to bet in a dead sprint Marshall is just as fast as Bowe

Bowe kind of reminds me of Anquan Boldin while Marshall reminds me of Terrell Owens

rastaman
07-02-2009, 07:38 PM
It really is. Rastaman light up another and talk to me after the Bears miss another post season.

Oh I'll be talkin to ya! B/c the Da Bears have another loosing season and the post season for the 4th consecutive season.....and Lovee is fired---and enter Coach Michael Shanahan and 2010 with possible Brandon Marshall to follow either in 2010 or 2011???

Oh yeah, We will be talking alright.....So will the rest of the NFL! :peace:

Popps
07-02-2009, 07:45 PM
Why would Orton need to accomplish those to be deemed a success?


He wouldn't, of course.

The newest game around here by the widows is to create inflated goals that probably can't be met, in order to deem the team/players a "failure" if they don't reach them.

Weird fan behavior, I know... but finding ways to have the team fail seems to be the hottest new pastime.

hambone13
07-02-2009, 07:48 PM
I would be willing to bet in a dead sprint Marshall is just as fast as Bowe

Bowe kind of reminds me of Anquan Boldin while Marshall reminds me of Terrell Owens

I don't know man...Bowe looks a LOT faster than Marshall to me.....Marshall's size could be deceiving though. I know Marshall doesn't have Bowe's quick feet and change of direction. That's pretty apparent. Frankly Anquan Boldin is one of my favorite receivers to watch...but he doesn't drop many.

rastaman
07-02-2009, 08:34 PM
Why would Orton need to accomplish those to be deemed a success?
Throwing as much as we did is not really an ideal way to go especially with our defense

The additions of Quin and Moreno point to more running in 09, a lot more

Come on man....thats the oldest trick in book! You do realize you've just lowered the bar of expectation for Orton don't you? According to you stats don't mean much so long as you win. But I'm of the opinion you win games and you put up stats as well. I'll expect Orton to put up Pro bowl numbers like his predessor at least by year two---I'll give him 2009 as a getting to know McD's system....but Ole Kyle can't pull the wool over my eyes in 2009 and put up the same paltry stats this year as he did for Chicago last year.

DarkHorse30
07-02-2009, 08:50 PM
Cutler will have more yards, more TD's and more INT's.

Orton will have a better completion percentage (mostly due to the system, in fairness) and a better TD/INT ratio.

I say Cutler to have 23 TD's - 16 INT's - 3,900 yards.

Orton to have 19 TD's - 12 INT's - 3,100 yards.

Sounds about right.

Cutler has a gun for an arm, and in that way ALONE he is better than most QBs. Until he learns how to win games, with steady performance and staying away from bad throws and staring down his favorite WR, his talent won't mean that much.

strafen
07-02-2009, 09:25 PM
Cutler will have more yards, more TD's and more INT's.

Orton will have a better completion percentage (mostly due to the system, in fairness) and a better TD/INT ratio.

I say Cutler to have 23 TD's - 16 INT's - 3,900 yards.

Orton to have 19 TD's - 12 INT's - 3,100 yards.Isn't 19 TD to 12 Int the same ratio as 23 TD's to 16 Int's? ;)

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 09:27 PM
Isn't 19 TD to 12 Int the same ratio as 23 TD's to 16 Int's? ;)

No....

Bob's your Information Minister
07-02-2009, 09:32 PM
Please name me a single player currently on offense for the Chiefs who would start in Denver this season, or New England last season?

The only one could possibly be Bowe in Denver as the 2nd WR, and not a single player on the Chiefs starts on offense in New England.

Cassel is going to be hard-pressed to match Orton's numbers this year, not the other way around.
.

Albert, Bowe, LJ, Waters and Cassel would all start in Denver. Especially Cassel.

Albert would start at guard or right tackle, before you laugh at me for trying to pimp Albert over Clady.

You can find guys like Kyle Orton on half the rosters in the NFL. He's nothing special whatsoever. Cassel has franchise quarterback traits - accuracy, high intelligence, mobility, lack of pictures of him with a bottle of Jack Daniels.

Popps
07-02-2009, 09:38 PM
Hey guys, stop whatever you're doing and listen. A Chiefs fan is giving a lecture on franchise QBs.

Who better to educate the sports world?

strafen
07-02-2009, 09:42 PM
Orton could potentially have one of his better season of his career
Personally, I don't like the guy. I hope he does well so I can enjoy watching my Broncos games. That said, he's our QB, and I wish him the best this year in Denver...

Now, we need to start realizing that our offense this year will be a more balanced offense than we've had in some time. I think our running game will be featured as bully and overpowering style. Moreno, Hillis, Buckhalter, and quite possibly Torain will provide a pretty stout running attack
We still have talent on the receivers end as well along with a nice combination set of blocking, receiving TE's to complement the offense

The OL is as good as any in the NFL, so Orton should be able to make good decisions on where to go with the ball, which the running backs are expected to be a great part of the passing game also

As for Cutler, if there was ever a town known for killing QB's is Chicago
Let's face it, they still have the same offensive system, same coordinators and coaches. They will try to adjust to Cutler's abilities as a passer more than Cutler will have to adjust to their style, and that's like all of the sudden you being right-handed now being forced to write with your left hand

It's going to be tough. Cutler is still raw in reading defenses, and he will have a hard time playing against, GB, Minny, Baltimore, Pitts, Seattle amongst the tougher opponents he will be facing this year
I don't think he will have enough talent on offense to make him feel comfortable, let alone any depth...

rastaman
07-02-2009, 10:41 PM
Albert, Bowe, LJ, Waters and Cassel would all start in Denver. Especially Cassel.

Albert would start at guard or right tackle, before you laugh at me for trying to pimp Albert over Clady.

You can find guys like Kyle Orton on half the rosters in the NFL. He's nothing special whatsoever. Cassel has franchise quarterback traits - accuracy, high intelligence, mobility, lack of pictures of him with a bottle of Jack Daniels.

McDisaster needs to find away to get Cassel away from the Chiefs next year. After all thats who he wanted all along. Cassel legitimizes the QB position in Denver. Just might save McD's coaching career.

rastaman
07-02-2009, 10:45 PM
Orton could potentially have one of his better season of his career
Personally, I don't like the guy. I hope he does well so I can enjoy watching my Broncos games. That said, he's our QB, and I wish him the best this year in Denver...

Now, we need to start realizing that our offense this year will be a more balanced offense than we've had in some time. I think our running game will be featured as bully and overpowering style. Moreno, Hillis, Buckhalter, and quite possibly Torain will provide a pretty stout running attack
We still have talent on the receivers end as well along with a nice combination set of blocking, receiving TE's to complement the offense

The OL is as good as any in the NFL, so Orton should be able to make good decisions on where to go with the ball, which the running backs are expected to be a great part of the passing game also

As for Cutler, if there was ever a town known for killing QB's is Chicago
Let's face it, they still have the same offensive system, same coordinators and coaches. They will try to adjust to Cutler's abilities as a passer more than Cutler will have to adjust to their style, and that's like all of the sudden you being right-handed now being forced to write with your left hand

It's going to be tough. Cutler is still raw in reading defenses, and he will have a hard time playing against, GB, Minny, Baltimore, Pitts, Seattle amongst the tougher opponents he will be facing this year
I don't think he will have enough talent on offense to make him feel comfortable, let alone any depth...

Cutler will have a successful career in Chicago only if he and Shanny can reunite! So here's hoping that Luvee suffers his 4th losing season and missing the post season for 4 consecutive years, to make room for Shanahan.

BroncoMan4ever
07-02-2009, 10:54 PM
Cutler doesn't check down to his backs and TEs much. he is always looking downfield and Chicago's offense relies on Forte and Olsen getting receptions.

also on the 1st point of what his passer rating would have been had we had a solid running game. what would his passer rating have looked like had the 1 or 2 bad passes he threw every game that inexplicably fell out of a defensive players grip, been intercepted. he was lucky to have only thrown 18 INTs last season, there was opportunity for a lot more.

ORTON WILL HAVE THE BETTER STATISTICAL YEAR

Cito Pelon
07-03-2009, 06:51 AM
Oh well, your "Boy" Orton shouldn't have any problems nor excuses in 2009......right! B/c he ain't in Chicago anymore. This should be Orton's coming out party.

Suddenly Kyle finds himself with:
-One of the best lines in football
-Arguably THE best LT in football
-One of the best offensive play-callers in football
-One of the best receiving corps in football
-Top 5 RB in the draft

Orton should be able to pass for over 3600 yds, 25-30 TD's, and pct, 85-100%

Remember Pops......no more excuses for Orton in 2009????

You'd love to see Orton & McD fail, and see Cutler win the SB wouldn't you?

Piss off, ya sack of dog ****.

TonyR
07-03-2009, 06:59 AM
Cutler will have a successful career in Chicago only if he and Shanny can reunite! So here's hoping that Luvee suffers his 4th losing season and missing the post season for 4 consecutive years, to make room for Shanahan.

Here's hoping? Why are you so invested in the success of Jay Cutler and the Chicago Bears?

And how could they possibly miss the playoffs now that they have Jay "franchise QB" Cutler at the helm?

gyldenlove
07-03-2009, 07:45 AM
He wouldn't, of course.

The newest game around here by the widows is to create inflated goals that probably can't be met, in order to deem the team/players a "failure" if they don't reach them.

Weird fan behavior, I know... but finding ways to have the team fail seems to be the hottest new pastime.

So throwing for 1000 yards fewer than Cutler did with a better run game is inflated? just how little confidence do you have in Orton? Should we make it 2000 fewer than Cutler or is that still too high? How about we make it a nice Griese-esque 2800 yards and 19 INTs or is that still too much?

TonyR
07-03-2009, 07:54 AM
So throwing for 1000 yards fewer than Cutler did with a better run game is inflated?

Den rushed for 116.4 per game at 4.8 per rush.
Chi rushed for 104.6 per game at 3.9 per rush.

Who had the better running game?

(can't wait to see how he spins this)

gyldenlove
07-03-2009, 08:22 AM
Den rushed for 116.4 per game at 4.8 per rush.
Chi rushed for 104.6 per game at 3.9 per rush.

Who had the better running game?

(can't wait to see how he spins this)

You are an idiot, there is no way to spin it.

Do you expect that we will have a worse run game this year than we did last year when we had to rely on Tatum "do you want unlimited texts?" Bell?

2KBack
07-03-2009, 08:34 AM
You are an idiot, there is no way to spin it.

Do you expect that we will have a worse run game this year than we did last year when we had to rely on Tatum "do you want unlimited texts?" Bell?

better to admit defeat on that one. Chicago may have had a superior running back, but Denver had the superior run game. tatum bell was relied on for 2 whole games, and in one of them performed very well. The fact is, the coaching staff decided they were pass first this past season. Denver put a healthy and effective runner on the field for 16 weeks. Yes there were injuries (a ton), but someone was always performing in the run game. Shannahan decided to ignore that aspect of the offense. Even given all that, Denver out performed chicago in the run game.

TonyR
07-03-2009, 08:54 AM
better to admit defeat on that one.

Yes, clearly he should have. Denver averaged almost a yard more per carry and he's going to call me an idiot instead of just admitting his error.

tsiguy96
07-03-2009, 08:57 AM
So throwing for 1000 yards fewer than Cutler did with a better run game is inflated? just how little confidence do you have in Orton? Should we make it 2000 fewer than Cutler or is that still too high? How about we make it a nice Griese-esque 2800 yards and 19 INTs or is that still too much?

i think most of us would prefer the team be more balanced, if throwing for 3600 yards and getting more rushing yards will get more wins, would you complain?

do you really think that cutler did NOT throw the ball too much last year?

gyldenlove
07-03-2009, 09:28 AM
better to admit defeat on that one. Chicago may have had a superior running back, but Denver had the superior run game. tatum bell was relied on for 2 whole games, and in one of them performed very well. The fact is, the coaching staff decided they were pass first this past season. Denver put a healthy and effective runner on the field for 16 weeks. Yes there were injuries (a ton), but someone was always performing in the run game. Shannahan decided to ignore that aspect of the offense. Even given all that, Denver out performed chicago in the run game.

Okay for everybody with 2 or fewer brain cells. I am comparing OUR rungame in 2008 to OUR rungame in 2009.

I am not comparing to Chicago.

For ****s sake people.

TheReverend
07-03-2009, 09:31 AM
Den rushed for 116.4 per game at 4.8 per rush.
Chi rushed for 104.6 per game at 3.9 per rush.

Who had the better running game?

(can't wait to see how he spins this)

7 in the box vs Cutler

8+ in the box vs Orton

Not that hard to notice.

TonyR
07-03-2009, 09:33 AM
7 in the box vs Cutler

8+ in the box vs Orton


Now THAT is a valid argument. I don't know that it fully accounts for 0.9 ypc but it is certainly a major factor.

elsid13
07-03-2009, 09:34 AM
7 in the box vs Cutler

8+ in the box vs Orton

Not that hard to notice.

Or most long runs were when the defense was in nickle and dime defense to prevent the quick strike and allow Denver back into the game.

broncswin
07-03-2009, 10:12 AM
Cutler will have a successful career in Chicago only if he and Shanny can reunite! So here's hoping that Luvee suffers his 4th losing season and missing the post season for 4 consecutive years, to make room for Shanahan.

Ya then shanny can go for his fourth consecutive season of missing the playoffs with the same f-ing jerk off qb!!:welcome:

Popps
11-12-2009, 07:50 PM
ORTON WILL HAVE THE BETTER STATISTICAL YEAR

:strong:

Williams
11-12-2009, 08:42 PM
Kyle Orton never threw 17 Interceptions in one season... let alone with six games to go. Hell, Orton never threw 14.