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JCMElway
07-02-2009, 10:46 AM
25ish players released from the previous regime. Half the team. I guess I knew how much of a turnover there was, but just seeing it in black and white struck me.

• RB Anthony Alridge(notes) (released).

• LB Boss Bailey (released/failed physical).

• TE Adam Bergen(notes) (released).

• CB Dre’ Bly(notes) (released).

• QB Jay Cutler (traded Bears).

• DE John Engelberger(notes) (released).

• LB Louis Green(notes) (released).

• QB Darrell Hackney(notes) (released).

• RB Alex Haynes(notes) (released).

• TE Nate Jackson(notes) (released).

• S Herana-Daze Jones(notes) (released).

• LB Niko Koutouvides(notes) (released).

• LS Mike Leach(notes) (released).

• S Marquand Manuel(notes) (released).

• S Marlon McCree(notes): Not tendered as UFA/Jaguars; terms unknown.

• TE Chad Mustard(notes) (released).

• CB Karl Paymah(notes): UFA Vikings; $1.55M/1 yr.

• OT Erik Pears(notes): Not tendered as RFA/Raiders; terms unknown.

• FB Andrew Pinnock(notes) (released).

• RB P.J. Pope(notes) (released).

• QB Patrick Ramsey(notes): UFA Titans; 1 yr, terms unknown.

• DT Dewayne Robertson(notes) (released).

• WR Cliff Russell (released/failed physical).

• DT Josh Shaw(notes) (released).

• LB Jamie Winborn(notes) (released).

• RB Selvin Young(notes) (released/failed physical).

TonyR
07-02-2009, 10:47 AM
Outside of Cutler, anybody you'd want to see back from this list?

SonOfLe-loLang
07-02-2009, 10:48 AM
Outside of Cutler, anybody you'd want to see back from this list?

Yeah, i was just gonna say the same thing

DenverBrit
07-02-2009, 10:49 AM
There was some serious dust underneath the rug. Ha!

2KBack
07-02-2009, 10:50 AM
I still think Anthony Alridge has some unique skills

BroncoInSkinland
07-02-2009, 11:00 AM
Aside from Cutler, Leach, maybes on Mustard, Pope and Young, but none of them were phenomenal by any stretch of the imagination. I would also like to see "Short-Round" Hackney back, I know he would never be a good QB, but he was fun to watch in Pre-season, just always seemed like he was having a good time out there. Overall no staggering losses, aside from Cutler and I have no problems with any of the other cuts.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-02-2009, 11:08 AM
Outside of Cutler, anybody you'd want to see back from this list?

Robertson for me, but he and JC are my only 2.

The funniest part (or saddest), is that out of all those guys only 5 are currently on an NFL roster. That speaks volumes about the talent evaluation of the old regime.

BroncoMan4ever
07-02-2009, 11:36 AM
Leach, because he was a great LS for us.
Green, because he was good LB depth and good on ST
Alridge, because i always felt he could do something special with an opportunity

Smiling Assassin27
07-02-2009, 11:41 AM
Long live Lonnie...

broncosteven
07-02-2009, 11:46 AM
I laughed at KFC with their youth movement last year.

I am not laughing this year...trying to think happy thoughts.

Atlas
07-02-2009, 11:50 AM
Aside from Cutler, Leach, maybes on Mustard, Pope and Young, but none of them were phenomenal by any stretch of the imagination. I would also like to see "Short-Round" Hackney back, I know he would never be a good QB, but he was fun to watch in Pre-season, just always seemed like he was having a good time out there. Overall no staggering losses, aside from Cutler and I have no problems with any of the other cuts.

McGenius gave $12 million to Arington, Buckhalter and Jordan.

Denver Would have been better off keeping Pittman, Pope and Aldridge.

Why cut Leach and sign a more expensive L/S? Leach was already one of the best in the league and had a great relationship with his linemates.

Why sign Gaffney to the huge contract? He isn't better than Stokley. I guess you run off Marshall, you need him now.

Hogan11
07-02-2009, 12:20 PM
There was some serious dust underneath the rug. Ha!

That's about it in a nutshell.

summerdenver
07-02-2009, 12:29 PM
To be fair - other than Jay(hubris) and Leach (unnecessary) I don't have any problems with any of these moves. I would have wanted Mike also to release most of the other guys if he were still the coach

TonyR
07-02-2009, 12:42 PM
McGenius gave $12 million to Arington, Buckhalter and Jordan.


You are aware that Arrington got cut and isn't going to get his $, right? And Buckhalter and Jordan are better than they guys we cut. Since it's not your money you should be happy with even marginal improvements.

Taco John
07-02-2009, 01:02 PM
I think it's easy to get bowled over by the number 25 without putting it in any kind of context. I can count at least 15 on that list who would have likely been gone if Shanahan was still around. Some of those guys might have stuck around. Maybe we'd have held on to Ramsey, Selvin, and maybe a few others.

Also, we might have thought about keeping Jay Cutler around.

Pick Six
07-02-2009, 01:07 PM
I thought Erik Pears was decent, but I'll get over it. Our offensive line is solid...

Tombstone RJ
07-02-2009, 01:11 PM
Let's face it, the house that Shanny built was on a weak foundation. Aside from the offensive line, no other unit has gone untouched.

OBF1
07-02-2009, 01:18 PM
How did we even win 8 games last season with so much crap on the roster???

Beantown Bronco
07-02-2009, 01:21 PM
How did we even win 8 games last season with so much crap on the roster???

coaching

despite what some here would like to believe.

DenverBrit
07-02-2009, 02:06 PM
How did we even win 8 games last season with so much crap on the roster???


We really didn't.

Ed Hochuli gave us one and lowered JC's fumble stats and pumped up his 4th Qtr and TD stats in one call.

Then Janikowski choked at the last minute.

We could probably argue about a game or two we lost but should have won.

broncosteven
07-02-2009, 02:12 PM
We really didn't.

Ed Hochuli gave us one and lowered JC's fumble stats and pumped up his 4th Qtr and TD stats in one call.

Then Janikowski choked at the last minute.

We could probably argue about a game or two we lost but should have won.

You forgot the missed FG by Gramatica(?) vs NO, despite the O scoring 38 points.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 02:15 PM
We really didn't.


I think you're probably right. That was a 6-10 team masquerading as an 8-8 team.

24champ
07-02-2009, 02:16 PM
Ed Hochuli gave us one and lowered JC's fumble stats and pumped up his 4th Qtr and TD stats in one call.



Even so...the offense we have now isn't going to rack up 486 yards and score 39 points against the Chargers. If we had Orton on the same team, it would be a blowout by the Chargers.

Taco John
07-02-2009, 02:17 PM
Even so...the offense we have now isn't going to rack up 486 yards and score 39 points against the Chargers. If we had Orton on the same team, it would be a blowout by the Chargers.



Wow. That's a punch to the gut.


Thanks for that. :welcome:

BABronco
07-02-2009, 02:18 PM
Robertson for me, but he and JC are my only 2.

The funniest part (or saddest), is that out of all those guys only 5 are currently on an NFL roster. That speaks volumes about the talent evaluation of the old regime.

And with all of those ****ty players we finished 8-8 ... not too shabby (aside of the epic collapse).

TonyR
07-02-2009, 02:27 PM
If we had Orton on the same team, it would be a blowout by the Chargers.

You mean like the 2nd time we played them? With the season, division and playoffs on the line?

24champ
07-02-2009, 03:11 PM
You mean like the 2nd time we played them? With the season, division and playoffs on the line?

Orton as QB last year, we'd be out of the playoffs in October/early november. No question.

He isn't the type of QB to mask a bad defense. He's a stopgap QB, next offseason we will see our QBOTF. That's assuming McDaniels isn't burned to the stake in this town.

oubronco
07-02-2009, 03:44 PM
McGenius gave $12 million to Arington, Buckhalter and Jordan.

Denver Would have been better off keeping Pittman, Pope and Aldridge.

Why cut Leach and sign a more expensive L/S? Leach was already one of the best in the league and had a great relationship with his linemates.

Why sign Gaffney to the huge contract? He isn't better than Stokley. I guess you run off Marshall, you need him now.

PSSSST don't let the McD homers hear you

Atlas
07-03-2009, 02:19 AM
You are aware that Arrington got cut and isn't going to get his $, right? And Buckhalter and Jordan are better than they guys we cut. Since it's not your money you should be happy with even marginal improvements.

I was aware he was cut, I figured he still got his signing bonus. It's not my money, but Bowlen is now running this team on a budget and that money could have been better spent in other areas instead of maybe, marginally improving the RB position.

Atlas
07-03-2009, 02:28 AM
Let's face it, the house that Shanny built was on a weak foundation. Aside from the offensive line, no other unit has gone untouched.

A weak foundation according to who? MCFailure? Yeah, since he totaled out the RBs, QBs and added un needed personal in Gaffeny and another blocking TE.... Denver had great depth at RB last year, They have three very good WRs and they were set at TE.

So instead of focusing on the defense MCd blows up the RBs spends $4 million a year on Gaffeny, trades Cutler and drafts a midget CB and a blocking TE instead of helping the DL. And now he is prepared to deal Marshal which, he can't possible get higher than a 2nd rounder for him.

I saw a very strong foundation. I saw a very young, very talented offense that was ready to explode. I saw Shanny trying to make a team in the Colts image. Get a very strong foundation in the offense and then work on the defense. I saw promise. I saw Denver challenging the Chargers this year. Like they did last year. That is what I saw.

watermock
07-03-2009, 04:43 AM
A weak foundation according to who? MCFailure? Yeah, since he totaled out the RBs, QBs and added un needed personal in Gaffeny and another blocking TE.... Denver had great depth at RB last year, They have three very good WRs and they were set at TE.

So instead of focusing on the defense MCd blows up the RBs spends $4 million a year on Gaffeny, trades Cutler and drafts a midget CB and a blocking TE instead of helping the DL. And now he is prepared to deal Marshal which, he can't possible get higher than a 2nd rounder for him.

I saw a very strong foundation. I saw a very young, very talented offense that was ready to explode. I saw Shanny trying to make a team in the Colts image. Get a very strong foundation in the offense and then work on the defense. I saw promise. I saw Denver challenging the Chargers this year. Like they did last year. That is what I saw.

Indeed.

We had the O set for 6 years, sans RB. (7 on IR).

We had money, we had picks.

Bowlen could of fired Slowick over Shanny's head and saved 22 million.

And the crap about money with Cutler!.

Dawkins and Fields, Goodman and Davis in FA?

And I laugh how Cutler's Alienation was HIS fault.

Finally, we wern't going anywhere in the playoffs anyway.

HILife
07-03-2009, 05:48 AM
Outside of Cutler, anybody you'd want to see back from this list?


• TE Chad Mustard(notes) (released) (resigned) (released) (resigned) (released) (resigned).

TonyR
07-03-2009, 07:03 AM
Orton as QB last year, we'd be out of the playoffs in October/early november. No question.


In the offense we ran last season, yes, you're correct. In the offense we'll run this season, you're probably not.

DenverBrit
07-03-2009, 08:59 AM
You forgot the missed FG by Gramatica(?) vs NO, despite the O scoring 38 points.

You're right, I did. He bailed out the D with that miss.

DenverBrit
07-03-2009, 09:04 AM
Even so...the offense we have now isn't going to rack up 486 yards and score 39 points against the Chargers. If we had Orton on the same team, it would be a blowout by the Chargers.

One more reason the list of players cut makes sense.
The D and special teams really stunk.......even more so than 07, so a clean sweep was overdue....players and coaches.
Had Shanny taken care of business instead of wanting Slowic and his staff back, we would be discussing a very different off-season.

2-3 years will be needed to really fix the D, which is why we all need to hurry up and wait.

Taco John
07-03-2009, 10:50 AM
I saw a very strong foundation. I saw a very young, very talented offense that was ready to explode.

If some of the stuff I've heard i saccurate, this is a popular sentiment from some in the locker room. And of course, why wouldn't it be. Everyone who has watched the Broncos play in the last two years should be smart enough to recognize that we had a great offensive foundation laid, and all we needed at this point was to focus on defense.

hambone13
07-03-2009, 10:51 AM
I think it's easy to get bowled over by the number 25 without putting it in any kind of context. I can count at least 15 on that list who would have likely been gone if Shanahan was still around. Some of those guys might have stuck around. Maybe we'd have held on to Ramsey, Selvin, and maybe a few others.

Also, we might have thought about keeping Jay Cutler around.

I concur

DenverBrit
07-03-2009, 10:58 AM
If some of the stuff I've heard i saccurate, this is a popular sentiment from some in the locker room. And of course, why wouldn't it be. Everyone who has watched the Broncos play in the last two years should be smart enough to recognize that we had a great offensive foundation laid, and all we needed at this point was to focus on defense.

As good as the foundation is, it still needs help.

16th in scoring meant there were still the same old red-zone problems that have been an issue for several years.

Did we all keep buying into annual mantra of "we're just a player or two away from contending"?

The team needed a major overhaul.

TonyR
07-03-2009, 11:29 AM
...16th in scoring meant there were still the same old red-zone problems that have been an issue for several years.


Many want to put all the blame for this last season on the running game and RB issues. I tend to think the O-line, the QB, and the play-calling/schemes were larger problems. When you run the ball and move the ball fine between the 20's but bog down in the red zone there are issues. As good as our O-line was they still aren't a group of maulers and they're still relatively undersized. This is where the QB and the schemes/play calling come into play, and clearly we werent' good enough in either area.

24champ
07-03-2009, 12:52 PM
In the offense we ran last season, yes, you're correct. In the offense we'll run this season, you're probably not.

I seem to recall former QB coach Jeremy Bates say they were copying the Patriots offense.

xBTDx
07-03-2009, 01:10 PM
Then Janikowski choked at the last minute.


Huh? Are you thinking 2007 or did I space my way through the 2008 season?

Drek
07-03-2009, 01:17 PM
McGenius gave $12 million to Arington, Buckhalter and Jordan.

Denver Would have been better off keeping Pittman, Pope and Aldridge.
Except you know, Arrington, Buckhalter, and Jordan have actually played on Sundays with some regularity, while Pope and Aldridge never have. And is Pittman even still medically cleared to play? His career is toast, I don't have the slightest clue as to why some think we should've retained a guy who hasn't been able to stay healthy since the last time the Raiders where relevant.

Why cut Leach and sign a more expensive L/S? Leach was already one of the best in the league and had a great relationship with his linemates.
Because the "more expensive L/S" was only about $150K more a year (since Leach was required to get at least vet minimum), he's younger, he's actually got some potential to cover a OL spot in real situations of need, and he brings the kind of locker room attitude McDaniels is trying to install here. Maybe Leach did too, but its not like McDaniels is personally familiar with Mike Leach, so $150K extra for a LS he knows will do what he wants is a pretty reasonable splurge.

Why sign Gaffney to the huge contract? He isn't better than Stokley. I guess you run off Marshall, you need him now.
Yes, absolutely huge. That 4 year, $10M salary with all of $3M guaranteed is going to be a cap killer. Never mind that route running is pretty obviously something more than a few people prefer to learn visually, and that Gaffney knows McDaniels offense so he provides said visual example for all the rest of the corps. That isn't a good reason to sign him. Neither is the fact that he's actually a pretty solid #3 WR. He was a former Patriot so he's got to suck.

And last I checked Brandon Marshall is running Marshall off. He hasn't even made up some cock and bull story about feeling insulted by the new management, he just wants more cash. In what way is that McDaniels running him off?

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good "I hate McDaniels" rant. This place might not suck quite as much if you did and we can't have that. I mean hell, we're almost ESPN board quality, keep pushing and we'll really make it in the gutter by the start of the regular season (when all of this will actually start to matter).

Atlas
07-03-2009, 01:50 PM
As good as the foundation is, it still needs help.

16th in scoring meant there were still the same old red-zone problems that have been an issue for several years.

Did we all keep buying into annual mantra of "we're just a player or two away from contending"?

The team needed a major overhaul.

16th in scoring is in direct relation to the youth on the offense. Red-zone scoring is the last this a great offense will learn because it gets tough down there.

Their scoring had nothing to do with talent and everything to do with how young they were. Which, if they were all still here Denver would be much better this year. They'd be top 10 scoring this year and that is with the tougher schedule.

DenverBrit
07-03-2009, 02:46 PM
Huh? Are you thinking 2007 or did I space my way through the 2008 season?

No, you're right. It was 2007. Insert the NO game and the missed FG. :)

DenverBrit
07-03-2009, 02:48 PM
16th in scoring is in direct relation to the youth on the offense. Red-zone scoring is the last this a great offense will learn because it gets tough down there.

Their scoring had nothing to do with talent and everything to do with how young they were. Which, if they were all still here Denver would be much better this year. They'd be top 10 scoring this year and that is with the tougher schedule.

The Red-Zone problems pre-date Cutler. It's been an issue for some time.

The debate always seemed to about the lightness of the O line or the play calling.

Popps
07-03-2009, 02:50 PM
Also, Jay Cutler might not have quit on the team.

Fixed.

maher_tyler
07-03-2009, 03:13 PM
I still think Anthony Alridge has some unique skills

Yea..i wish we could have seen how he could have done in the regular season.

BroncoMan4ever
07-03-2009, 03:22 PM
Even so...the offense we have now isn't going to rack up 486 yards and score 39 points against the Chargers. If we had Orton on the same team, it would be a blowout by the Chargers.

the offense we have now is going to be able to run the ball and force defenses to bring extra defenders into the box opening up passing lanes for Orton to operate.

i am not arguing that last season Orton as our QB doesn't lead our offense to as much, but that really doesn't matter. what matters is this season. and this season our offense will be better than last years

like Orton or not, he is going to be part of an offense that is more balanced and scores more than last season's offense did.

BroncoMan4ever
07-03-2009, 03:24 PM
The Red-Zone problems pre-date Cutler. It's been an issue for some time.

The debate always seemed to about the lightness of the O line or the play calling.

Red Zone has been a problem since we let Portis go in a trade. that is finally being addressed with McDaniels bringing in talent in the running game. it is much easier to score in the red zone when you have at least the THREAT of a RB good enough to put the ball in the end zone. Just the addition of a talented RB like Moreno opens up possibilities for us. We can now run, and can balance out our attack.

BroncoMan4ever
07-03-2009, 03:31 PM
McGenius gave $12 million to Arington, Buckhalter and Jordan.

Denver Would have been better off keeping Pittman, Pope and Aldridge.

Why cut Leach and sign a more expensive L/S? Leach was already one of the best in the league and had a great relationship with his linemates.

Why sign Gaffney to the huge contract? He isn't better than Stokley. I guess you run off Marshall, you need him now.

Arrington has been cut and won't see any of that money. Buckhalter is going to be a backup and a good one for Moreno. and Jordan is a good guy who knows McDaniels system and is a good guy in the red zone short yardage situations. Pittman was a bright spot for a few games but aging and coming off of injury, so he was replaced with Jordan. Pope, was listed behind Young on the depth chart last season, so that just tells you how good he was. Alridge was an interesting possibility, but nothing more than that. he hadn't proved anything.

i am a little bummed about the Leach release. But it goes to who a coach is comfortable with. McDaniels knows what to expect with him.

Gaffney is a good receiver and good depth. Stokley is in the twilight of his career, slightly injury prone and suffers a new concussion every few months. Depth in the receiving corps on a team with a coach who likes to throw the ball is a smart decision, especially when that guy already knows your system.


and where the hell are you getting this, "McDaniels is trying to run off Marshall" crap? Marshall just wants money and not to be treated by our ****ty staff doctors.

BroncoMan4ever
07-03-2009, 03:34 PM
Orton as QB last year, we'd be out of the playoffs in October/early november. No question.

He isn't the type of QB to mask a bad defense. He's a stopgap QB, next offseason we will see our QBOTF. That's assuming McDaniels isn't burned to the stake in this town.

i see what you are thinking about us getting our QBOTF next season. However, if Orton has a good season, which i think he will, considering McDaniels offense is more suited to his style of play; don't be surprised if we end up giving him a new deal to stick around for a few years.

BroncoMan4ever
07-03-2009, 03:35 PM
I think it's easy to get bowled over by the number 25 without putting it in any kind of context. I can count at least 15 on that list who would have likely been gone if Shanahan was still around. Some of those guys might have stuck around. Maybe we'd have held on to Ramsey, Selvin, and maybe a few others.

Also, we might have thought about keeping Jay Cutler around.

that was Cutler's decision. he is the one who cried his way out of town and forced Bowlen's hand by cutting off contact with the team.

Cmac821
07-03-2009, 07:30 PM
Ramsey landed another gig? That guy was horrible

Baba Booey
07-03-2009, 08:40 PM
draining the poison

Atlas
07-04-2009, 12:02 PM
The Red-Zone problems pre-date Cutler. It's been an issue for some time.

The debate always seemed to about the lightness of the O line or the play calling.

Actually Denver was one of the best red-zone scoring teams in the NFL in 2005.

Los Broncos
07-04-2009, 12:37 PM
Engelberger being released was a real shocker.