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TonyR
07-02-2009, 10:23 AM
Though Denver does not want to trade Brandon Marshall, it will take calls. Won't make them, but will take them. A 1 gets BM is my guess.

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter


Broncos Willing To Listen To Offers For Brandon Marshall?

Posted by Mike Florio on July 2, 2009 11:42 AM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/assets_c/2009/07/NFL_marshall2-thumb-250x185-353.jpg (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/NFL_marshall2.jpg)Though the word on the street continues to be that the Denver Broncos will not be trading receiver Brandon Marshall, Adam Schefter points out (http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter) in his only current location for the dissemination of NFL news and notes that, while the Broncos won't be making calls, they will taking calls.

If, you know, any calls come.

We don't know whether this is a new attitude on the part of the team, and specifically whether it comes in the wake of the disclosure that Marshall told police in October 2007, "I hate this f--king city (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/06/30/brandon-marshall-on-denver-i-hate-this-f--king-city/)."

And we continue to be fascinated by the possibility that Marshall's camp leaked the 20-month-old comment, in the hopes of stoking a fan and media outcry that could force the team to take the best offer they could get.

Schefter, a former Broncos beat writer, also believes that the Broncos would take a first-round pick for Marshall. And that's a surprise, given that the current market for a No. 1 wideout is a first-round pick and a third-round pick.

But even if Marshall can be had for only a first-rounder, his new team would also have to be willing to pay him $9 million or so per year -- and would have hope/wish/pray that neither his hip nor his off-field tendencies would keep Marshall from being available to play.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/02/broncos-willing-to-listen-offers-for-brandon-marshall/

BabyTO
07-02-2009, 10:24 AM
According to his twitter:

Though Denver does not want to trade Brandon Marshall, it will take calls. Won't make them, but will take them. A 1 gets BM is my guess.

http://twitter.com/Adam_Schefter

Taco John
07-02-2009, 10:29 AM
I wonder if Bowlen had any idea that all this would happen once he started meddling.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 10:37 AM
I wonder if Bowlen had any idea that all this would happen once he started meddling.

That would assume that his "meddling" had anything to do with "this happening". It may. Then again, it very well may not.

telluride
07-02-2009, 10:39 AM
Well, they won't get a 1st, so it's sort of moot.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-02-2009, 10:41 AM
I wouldnt want to trade B-marsh for a first. Its lunacy. JUST PAY HIM

gyldenlove
07-02-2009, 10:45 AM
The 2009 offseason, the ****-sandwich that never ends.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 10:46 AM
Well, they won't get a 1st, so it's sort of moot.

I agree. Very, very unlikely. Although a couple of months from now, if/when he's declared and proven healthy and his trial is behind him, this could change.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-02-2009, 10:47 AM
I hate when people over value draft picks. Yes, B-marsh has some off the field issues, but he's a fantastic receiver and hasn't even hit his prime yet! two 100 catch seasons in a row! An absolute beast who is a constant double team. We should be salivating over this guy!!!

I know there's some risk involved with his background, but come on. SIGN HIM!

bronco militia
07-02-2009, 10:48 AM
The 2009 offseason, the ****-sandwich that never ends.

NO ****

TailgateNut
07-02-2009, 10:50 AM
[I].

But even if Marshall can be had for only a first-rounder, his new team would also have to be willing to pay him $9 million or so per year -- and would have hope/wish/pray that neither his hip nor his off-field tendencies would keep Marshall from being available to play.


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/07/02/broncos-willing-to-listen-offers-for-brandon-marshall/


9 million for this ass-clown. :spit:

Grow up!
Stop ****ing up!
Play Hard!

...then you'll get to reap the rewards.

DarkHorse30
07-02-2009, 10:50 AM
Florio and more of his non-news.

"They will take calls".....is that any different than ANY other player on ANY other team, anywhere?

TailgateNut
07-02-2009, 10:51 AM
I hate when people over value draft picks. Yes, B-marsh has some off the field issues, but he's a fantastic receiver and hasn't even hit his prime yet! two 100 catch seasons in a row! An absolute beast who is a constant double team. We should be salivating over this guy!!!

I know there's some risk involved with his background, but come on. SIGN HIM!


You can do the "salivating" for me. He's a ****ing jerk!

Proof is in the pudding.

SonOfLe-loLang
07-02-2009, 10:53 AM
You can do the "salivating" for me. He's a ****ing jerk!

Proof is in the pudding.

Do you hang out with him? No, so who the f cares if he's a jerk. He catches passes and lots of em. Plus, his teammates seem to like him just fine, so its not like he's a locker room cancer.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 11:03 AM
Florio and more of his non-news.

"They will take calls".....is that any different than ANY other player on ANY other team, anywhere?

"We will take calls" is how the FO spins their way out of lying through their teeth... again.

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 11:04 AM
"We will take calls" is how the FO spins their way out of lying through their teeth... again.

dude you are so pathetic, you should probably root for the patriots, put your mind at ease.

broncofan7
07-02-2009, 11:04 AM
Do you hang out with him? No, so who the f cares if he's a jerk. He catches passes and lots of em. Plus, his teammates seem to like him just fine, so its not like he's a locker room cancer.

EXACTLY. Until I start hearing about him geting into fights with other players on the team--I want him in a Broncos Uni.........

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 11:06 AM
dude you are so pathetic, you should probably root for the patriots, put your mind at ease.

Ummmm... what?

Can you possibly assemble the logic for that comment?

vancejohnson82
07-02-2009, 11:08 AM
Do you hang out with him? No, so who the f cares if he's a jerk. He catches passes and lots of em. Plus, his teammates seem to like him just fine, so its not like he's a locker room cancer.



its not like anybody ever said, "hes not my favorite guy right now"

NFLBRONCO
07-02-2009, 11:10 AM
I'd prefer having BM but, I can understand FO though. BM is super talented but, off the field stuff will this guy ever learn he is on the verge of a big hit from NFL. No Denver will not get BM's worth via trade so they should keep him but, I think he will be gone.

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 11:11 AM
Ummmm... what?

Can you possibly assemble the logic for that comment?

youre constant whining and crying about how bad the FO is, how bad the team will be, why we are all idiots for having some hope for the season is so ****ing annoying, everyone is sick of hearing it and i bet you are sick of spouting it, you just try to get a rise from everyone. do you sit at home and cry yourself to sleep at night because they arent running hte team the way that you, with all your football credentials, believe they should?

SonOfLe-loLang
07-02-2009, 11:12 AM
its not like anybody ever said, "hes not my favorite guy right now"

C'mon, those dudes were friends and just got done training together. Sure, cutler said it, but cutler never learned how to censor himself to the media. Do you honestly think he didnt like him? I've called my best friend an asshole on more than one occasion.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 11:14 AM
youre constant whining and crying about how bad the FO is, how bad the team will be, why we are all idiots for having some hope for the season is so ****ing annoying, everyone is sick of hearing it and i bet you are sick of spouting it, you just try to get a rise from everyone. do you sit at home and cry yourself to sleep at night because they arent running hte team the way that you, with all your football credentials, believe they should?

I like how you try to spin this, instead of actually going after the merits of the post about how the "FO was lying... again".

Very sad.

As for your posts, wouldn't suggesting I become a Bear's fan be more logical? Afterall, it's this Patriots disciple that has me raging about the current FO.

One more thing, I think this comment is funny coming from you, considering the volume of people that have begged you to leave because you spew the same shtick over and over.

broncofan2438
07-02-2009, 11:14 AM
whatever. THis is not new news. We all knew this. We'll see you in training camp Marshall.

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 11:17 AM
I like how you try to spin this, instead of actually going after the merits of the post about how the "FO was lying... again".

Very sad.

As for your posts, wouldn't suggesting I become a Bear's fan be more logical? Afterall, it's this Patriots disciple that has me raging about the current FO.

One more thing, I think this comment is funny coming from you, considering the volume of people that have begged you to leave because you spew the same shtick over and over.

does it make you feel better arguing with other fans of the team why they are WRONG for wanting/hoping the team does good this year?

you always come to the table with zero proof of anything you ever say, and in most cases the opposite of what you say can be assumed. the broncos have no reason to trade marshall, he wants out big deal doesnt mean he will get it, however if a team wants to call in and say heres a first and a third, the broncos will probably take it. do you understand yet?

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 11:23 AM
does it make you feel better arguing with other fans of the team why they are WRONG for wanting/hoping the team does good this year?

you always come to the table with zero proof of anything you ever say, and in most cases the opposite of what you say can be assumed. the broncos have no reason to trade marshall, he wants out big deal doesnt mean he will get it, however if a team wants to call in and say heres a first and a third, the broncos will probably take it. do you understand yet?

Wait... what?

Zero proof? I ALWAYS back things up with supporting evidence. You're projecting your own ****ty takes of "Wait and see" because you know nothing.

"We're not trading Jay Cutler! We only answered phones!" Then a month later we find out they did in fact try to trade for Cassell. Within a week after more public interviews saying Jay Cutler will not be traded, and telling the team "I'll take care of it" and holding up his throwback Jersey, Cutler is a Bear.

This Marshall situation is extremely reminiscent... anyone who doesn't think so is fooling themselves. McDaniels has been publicly glowing about Brandon and how in training camp he'll be able to learn the offense and play at a high level etc, and that he won't be traded. Now Schefter is reporting the same first phase of "Yes, he IS on the block". Odds are, come August Brandon will wear a different uniform.

vancejohnson82
07-02-2009, 11:25 AM
C'mon, those dudes were friends and just got done training together. Sure, cutler said it, but cutler never learned how to censor himself to the media. Do you honestly think he didnt like him? I've called my best friend an a-hole on more than one occasion.

No, I was definitely being flippant with that comment.....

But...when you continually let down your teammates with your actions they tend to look down on you....although he isnt a "cancer" he is most defiintely not a leader or a guy that motivates others through his actions

and I know he is young, but cmon, we need to think about whether this is ever going to change if we are going to give him a key contract

Rev, I don't understand how this is the front office lying...can you "possibly assemble any logic for this argument?" They told B-Marsh they would do their best to fulfill his wish to be traded...and they are doing their due diligence

Also, can't you see whats going on here? B-Marsh's team is putting out any news they can to get him out of town, the same way Cutlers camp did....Aside from liking it or not, its the obvious.

Ok, I'm going to have my mom call the local newspaper and tell them that I said, "I hate my job and my boss...." ...if B-Marsh had any balls he would hold a press conference, tell the city he hates all of them and sacrifice a kitten with a butter knife....that may get him out of town

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 11:28 AM
Wait... what?

Zero proof? I ALWAYS back things up with supporting evidence. You're projecting your own ****ty takes of "Wait and see" because you know nothing.

"We're not trading Jay Cutler! We only answered phones!" Then a month later we find out they did in fact try to trade for Cassell. Within a week after more public interviews saying Jay Cutler will not be traded, and telling the team "I'll take care of it" and holding up his throwback Jersey, Cutler is a Bear.

This Marshall situation is extremely reminiscent... anyone who doesn't think so is fooling themselves. McDaniels has been publicly glowing about Brandon and how in training camp he'll be able to learn the offense and play at a high level etc, and that he won't be traded. Now Schefter is reporting the same first phase of "Yes, he IS on the block". Odds are, come August Brandon will wear a different uniform.

prove to me that mcdaniels willingly tried to acquire matt cassel? there was talks, but who started them? hint: it was the people who wanted jay cutler and thought they could get him by reuniting mcdaniels with cassel. josh mcdaniels was not going to trade jay cutler, but jays p***Y immature attitude made him get traded because he insulted the owner of the team, who sent him to the state where offensive players go to die. do you only selectively remember **** that backs up your foolishness that you spout to everyone?

do everyone a favor, do not come back to this forum until the team starts playing, then you might have a reason to start bitching (or a reason to start apologizing for looking like a ****ing idiot all summer)

TailgateNut
07-02-2009, 11:28 AM
Do you hang out with him? No, so who the f cares if he's a jerk. He catches passes and lots of em. Plus, his teammates seem to like him just fine, so its not like he's a locker room cancer.


I don't need to hang out with him, I just need to follow the police blotters.
He's a ****ing jerk.
He berates the fans for not cheering him and his buttbuddy Jay when they are stinking up the stadium.
He is constantly getting into legal trouble.
He "hates" the city.
He wants out.

Send him on his merry way if he doesn't make some changes.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 11:34 AM
prove to me that mcdaniels willingly tried to acquire matt cassel? there was talks, but who started them? hint: it was the people who wanted jay cutler and thought they could get him by reuniting mcdaniels with cassel. josh mcdaniels was not going to trade jay cutler, but jays p***Y immature attitude made him get traded because he insulted the owner of the team, who sent him to the state where offensive players go to die. do you only selectively remember **** that backs up your foolishness that you spout to everyone?

do everyone a favor, do not come back to this forum until the team starts playing, then you might have a reason to start b****ing (or a reason to start apologizing for looking like a ****ing idiot all summer)

Sure:

McDaniels did pursue a deal with New England on the first day of free agency, but not intensely, he said, because he and Broncos general manager Brian Xanders were in the middle of doing six free-agent negotiations in the opening two days of free-agency. "I think we were too late to the dance,'' McDaneil's said

Now, normally I have a very high tolerance for stupidity because I enjoy playing with morons, however, you're beyond hopeless so I will be taking a friend of mine's advice and placing your worthless ass on ignore.

Goodbye sweet prince.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 11:35 AM
Lol, you're actually the ONLY person on my ignore list.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 11:38 AM
No, I was definitely being flippant with that comment.....

But...when you continually let down your teammates with your actions they tend to look down on you....although he isnt a "cancer" he is most defiintely not a leader or a guy that motivates others through his actions

and I know he is young, but cmon, we need to think about whether this is ever going to change if we are going to give him a key contract

Rev, I don't understand how this is the front office lying...can you "possibly assemble any logic for this argument?" They told B-Marsh they would do their best to fulfill his wish to be traded...and they are doing their due diligence

Also, can't you see whats going on here? B-Marsh's team is putting out any news they can to get him out of town, the same way Cutlers camp did....Aside from liking it or not, its the obvious.

Ok, I'm going to have my mom call the local newspaper and tell them that I said, "I hate my job and my boss...." ...if B-Marsh had any balls he would hold a press conference, tell the city he hates all of them and sacrifice a kitten with a butter knife....that may get him out of town

No, sir. Bowlen MAY have said that and he may not have. Brandon's agent is the one who makes that claim. The FO's stance has been that he will NOT be traded and "We'll see him in training camp".

As for the rest of your post, pure speculation as to who's leaking information. People don't "leak" information that makes them look like ****heads. It's more likely coming from a different location.

Beantown Bronco
07-02-2009, 11:38 AM
This one is my personal favorite:

"That's what we have communicated ever since the deal with Cassel didn't happen," McDaniels said. "Other teams have called but we're not interested in getting draft picks for Jay."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 11:40 AM
Sure:



Now, normally I have a very high tolerance for stupidity because I enjoy playing with morons, however, you're beyond hopeless so I will be taking a friend of mine's advice and placing your worthless ass on ignore.

Goodbye sweet prince.

yes, he did not bother looking into the deal any more because the deal was done with the chiefs, look it up. the offer was on the table and mcdaniels knew it wasnt going to happen, why would he even bother with it?

BroncoMan4ever
07-02-2009, 11:41 AM
I wouldnt want to trade B-marsh for a first. Its lunacy. JUST PAY HIM

i think that is the plan. They are saying they are willing to accept trades, but they are not going to get anywhere near what they want which is probably something like a 1st and a 3rd, since next season as a RFA that is what they can tender him with. So since they won't get what they want for him, they can come back to Marshall and say we tried, but no one was willing to give up what we feel you are worth. And then after a little bit of time has passed, offer him a new deal.

TheDave
07-02-2009, 11:44 AM
I just can't see this happening... no way is anyone stupid enough to get rid of a probowl QB AND a probowl WR AND trade away your 1st for next year all in one offseason.

2 out of 3 has been tough enough to stomach no way he goes for the hat-trick

vancejohnson82
07-02-2009, 11:44 AM
No, sir. Bowlen MAY have said that and he may not have. Brandon's agent is the one who makes that claim. The FO's stance has been that he will NOT be traded and "We'll see him in training camp".

As for the rest of your post, pure speculation as to who's leaking information. People don't "leak" information that makes them look like ****heads. It's more likely coming from a different location.

Yea, but ****heads also berate the fans, fall into TVs, hit women and get DUIs...(wow, I think I just may fit into that category.)

anyway, at this point I'm not putting anything past this guy and his camp....hes PISSED because he has no leverage in this situation, as I would be. He's completely handcuffed to this current contract and some little birdie may have told him that if he causes a media backlash he could be moved...so why not try it? It is pure speculation, but desperate people do desperate things (which is why I have a sock with brown marks on it)...

I say that some0one from our FO should approach him and tell him that if he shows up and plays like a good little boy, he will be rewarded with his contract before the start of the season...kinda like the Giants did with Plaxico last year

NFLBRONCO
07-02-2009, 11:44 AM
This isn't the greatest offseason no doubt but, FO does not have to tell me the truth about moves they are doing like it or not no other FO would either. I can't believe how impatient our fanbase here has become today when we hovered around 500 for 10 years geez. 09 might be bad but, longterm this team might be tougher and smarter and play like a team all season.

BroncoMan4ever
07-02-2009, 11:45 AM
This one is my personal favorite:

"That's what we have communicated ever since the deal with Cassel didn't happen," McDaniels said. "Other teams have called but we're not interested in getting draft picks for Jay."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

that's because they weren't interested in picks at that time. but the longer Jay bitched like a little girl with a skinned knee, to the press, and stubbornly acted like a child and cut off communication with his BOSSES, Bowlen decided it was enough, and something had to be done.

They didn't go into this ordeal hoping to get picks for Jay. they wanted him to grow up act like a man and come to work. Jay forced the issue and rather than wait until TC for him to possibly **** the team over, they decided to part ways and get someone who wants to play here over someone who didn't.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 11:47 AM
i think that is the plan. They are saying they are willing to accept trades, but they are not going to get anywhere near what they want which is probably something like a 1st and a 3rd, since next season as a RFA that is what they can tender him with. So since they won't get what they want for him, they can come back to Marshall and say we tried, but no one was willing to give up what we feel you are worth. And then after a little bit of time has passed, offer him a new deal.

IF they're asking picks, I'm inclined to agree.

If they want defensive help, they could probably get decent value.

Regardless, I hope he stays a Bronco. He's too damn good to lose.

NFLBRONCO
07-02-2009, 11:49 AM
I just can't see this happening... no way is anyone stupid enough to get rid of a probowl QB AND a probowl WR AND trade away your 1st for next year all in one offseason.

2 out of 3 has been tough enough to stomach no way he goes for the hat-trick

I could easily see it happening this offseason. Don't put all blame on FO put blame on emo players too. Rod Smith would have showed up while wanting a new deal.

vancejohnson82
07-02-2009, 11:50 AM
My favorite part of the above ESPN link:

Cutler said: "You know, even after the meeting, I hung around town, kind of expecting him to call me and say, 'Hey, let's just me and you get away and have lunch or a cup of coffee' and mend things, but that didn't happen.

http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif
http://blogs.targetx.com/slu/MadisonStarinieri/lonely.jpg

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 11:51 AM
Yea, but ****heads also berate the fans, fall into TVs, hit women and get DUIs...(wow, I think I just may fit into that category.)

anyway, at this point I'm not putting anything past this guy and his camp....hes PISSED because he has no leverage in this situation, as I would be. He's completely handcuffed to this current contract and some little birdie may have told him that if he causes a media backlash he could be moved...so why not try it? It is pure speculation, but desperate people do desperate things (which is why I have a sock with brown marks on it)...

I say that some0one from our FO should approach him and tell him that if he shows up and plays like a good little boy, he will be rewarded with his contract before the start of the season...kinda like the Giants did with Plaxico last year

That'd be swell, but will the contract be what he deserves?

Yes, DUI, yes called the fans fair weather for leaving the stadium (though I completely agree), now that another woman's been hit, been looking very likely that he does hit them.

.....But he put up 2 100 catch 1250+/1300+ seasons and has only been suspended one game for his incidents so apparently the commissioner had to agree that a lot of them were BS.

TailgateNut
07-02-2009, 11:51 AM
Yea, but ****heads also berate the fans, fall into TVs, hit women and get DUIs...(wow, I think I just may fit into that category.)

anyway, at this point I'm not putting anything past this guy and his camp....hes PISSED because he has no leverage in this situation, as I would be. He's completely handcuffed to this current contract and some little birdie may have told him that if he causes a media backlash he could be moved...so why not try it? It is pure speculation, but desperate people do desperate things (which is why I have a sock with brown marks on it)...

I say that some0one from our FO should approach him and tell him that if he shows up and plays like a good little boy, he will be rewarded with his contract before the start of the season...kinda like the Giants did with Plaxico last year


:notworthy

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 11:52 AM
I could easily see it happening this offseason. Don't put all blame on FO put blame on emo players too. Rod Smith would have showed up while wanting a new deal.

Rod Smith would've been suspended a full season for being convicted of the beating he laid on his wife.

So what's your point?

OrangeRising
07-02-2009, 11:52 AM
youre constant whining and crying about how bad the FO is, how bad the team will be, why we are all idiots for having some hope for the season is so ****ing annoying, everyone is sick of hearing it and i bet you are sick of spouting it, you just try to get a rise from everyone. do you sit at home and cry yourself to sleep at night because they arent running hte team the way that you, with all your football credentials, believe they should?

Truth hurts. Fact is, not everyone is 'tired' of hearing how bad this team could be. It's sad, it's scarey and some folks want to vent, including me. Too bad for you.

This team could be absolutely horrible. Worse than any Broncos team since the 1960's because of decisions made by ownership and this FO.

As fans, we have a right to be concerned and to talk about it. As for following the Patriots, isn't Belichick the reason we have this mess? If he hadn't promoted a ball boy to OC, we might've found a real head coach.

If it's annoying to you, how about joining the happy camp of ice cream and cupcakes over at the official Bronco fan forum. It seems more suited to you.

BroncoFiend
07-02-2009, 11:55 AM
No, sir. Bowlen MAY have said that and he may not have. Brandon's agent is the one who makes that claim. The FO's stance has been that he will NOT be traded and "We'll see him in training camp".

I see where you are coming from Rev, but McDaniels has also repeatedly said that he will always take into consideration anything he thinks will make the team better. If a situation changes or new circumstances come to light, a person can change their stance. It doesn't mean they were lying at the time.

It is of course only my opinion, but I don't believe McDaniels intended on trading Cutler back when he was holding up Cutler's throwback jersey. I just don't see why he would lie if he knew they would turn around and trade him. I think McD would have been happy to go into training camp and try to iron things out with Cutler. But Bowlen stepped in and made the call to push the trade. Just my opinion, but it also just makes sense.

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 11:55 AM
Truth hurts. Fact is, not everyone is 'tired' of hearing how bad this team could be. It's sad, it's scarey and some folks want to vent, including me. Too bad for you.

This team could be absolutely horrible. Worse than any Broncos team since the 1960's because of decisions made by ownership and this FO.

As fans, we have a right to be concerned and to talk about it. As for following the Patriots, isn't Belichick the reason we have this mess? If he hadn't promoted a ball boy to OC, we might've found a real head coach.

If it's annoying to you, how about joining the happy camp of ice cream and cupcakes over at the official Bronco fan forum. It seems more suited to you.

how is a team with our oline, receivers and running backs going to be worth than any bronco team since the 60s? explain where youre coming from with this?

you bitch, yet you keep saying the magic word: COULD. how bad they COULD be, yet you never once mention how good they COULD be, is that too much optimism for you to handle? you are probably like falcon fans after the 07 season, got a new coach and lost a bunch of people and signed few stars. doom and gloom right?

they COULD win the super bowl this year as well, are you gonna bitch then too?

TailgateNut
07-02-2009, 11:55 AM
That'd be swell, but will the contract be what he deserves?

Yes, DUI, yes called the fans fair weather for leaving the stadium (though I completely agree), now that another woman's been hit, been looking very likely that he does hit them.

.....But he put up 2 100 catch 1250+/1300+ seasons and has only been suspended one game for his incidents so apparently the commissioner had to agree that a lot of them were BS.


We should just give in to his demands and maybe he'll bless us with his admirable on field performance until his next **** up. :rofl:

He needs to show us he can "keep his nose clean" and I have no doubt he will be rewarded with a nice contract.

I had an employee who was a great general foreman, but couldn't stay out of trouble. He was getting top dollar salary and benefits, but I got tired of having to deal with his issues. I **** canned him. Best move ever.

vancejohnson82
07-02-2009, 11:56 AM
That'd be swell, but will the contract be what he deserves?

Yes, DUI, yes called the fans fair weather for leaving the stadium (though I completely agree), now that another woman's been hit, been looking very likely that he does hit them.

.....But he put up 2 100 catch 1250+/1300+ seasons and has only been suspended one game for his incidents so apparently the commissioner had to agree that a lot of them were BS.

Rev,

Believe it or not, I actually agree with B-Marsh on a lot of this too....and I also think although he may be threatening, that he has rarely laid a hand on a woman.....HOWEVER....

I brought up the Plax deal for a reason.....the Giants were worried about his misconduct and his attitude...so they waited on it...then paid him right before the opening game...remember the THursday night game (I think) when it was announced....

next thing you know, ol' Plax is out there doing the Diddy Bop at a nightclub and puts a hole in his leg....confirming all the suspicions they had about his immaturiy.

deals like this are tricky and I commend the front office for not caving in right away...Brandon has to show some maturity in the next two months and THEN get paid....hes going to get Captain level money but right now he couldnt be farther from that type of a role

BroncoFiend
07-02-2009, 11:57 AM
Rod Smith would've been suspended a full season for being convicted of the beating he laid on his wife.

So what's your point?

I don't believe you are correct on that one.

NFLBRONCO
07-02-2009, 11:58 AM
Rod Smith would've been suspended a full season for being convicted of the beating he laid on his wife.

So what's your point?

Point is Rod would have come in worked with team and still wanted contract is my point. Rod Smith learned from mistakes not sure BM will.

vancejohnson82
07-02-2009, 12:04 PM
Rod Smith would've been suspended a full season for being convicted of the beating he laid on his wife.

So what's your point?

The Chargers should be suspended for the first 4 games of this season for the beating they put on us last year

Hamrob
07-02-2009, 12:06 PM
BMarsh caught a 100 balls two years in a row...because JC was locked in on him 100% of the time.

He won't catch 100 balls from Orton...that's my bet.

He's got freakish ability, but he's inconsistent and he disapears when we really need a big play. Look I'm a huge fan...we got this kid in the 4th round and that was a steal...but, is he worth 9-10m/yr?

I'm not sure. Could we get somebody better with a #1 draft choice...probably not a better WR...but perhaps a NT or even a QB.

I'm not in favor of trading him...but I won't be as disapointed as I was when they let Jay go. Marshall's a WR...not a QB!

I will still think we have a good WR group and a very good TE corps. Let's face it...Orton isn't going to fling it like Jay did...there aren't going to be enough balls to go around. If we have to...we'll do just fine without him.

On the other hand...Letting Jay go...all-time stupidity.

TheDave
07-02-2009, 12:07 PM
I could easily see it happening this offseason. Don't put all blame on FO put blame on emo players too. Rod Smith would have showed up while wanting a new deal.

It doesn't matter what Rod Smith would've done... Dont trade talented players.

I would have told cutler the same thing we are telling Marshall... see you at camp.

You just don't find talent like these 2 guys have. We already lost one of them... We better not lose the other.

OrangeRising
07-02-2009, 12:10 PM
how is a team with our oline, receivers and running backs going to be worth than any bronco team since the 60s? explain where youre coming from with this?

you b****, yet you keep saying the magic word: COULD. how bad they COULD be, yet you never once mention how good they COULD be, is that too much optimism for you to handle? you are probably like falcon fans after the 07 season, got a new coach and lost a bunch of people and signed few stars. doom and gloom right?

they COULD win the super bowl this year as well, are you gonna b**** then too?


You're damn right I bitch about it, and, as the old joke reads, the only way this team gets into the Super Bowl is with a ticket.

They aren't going to rise up like the Falcons. They don't have a QB, although I'm not a Kyle Orton hater. I just don't believe he has the skills to lift this team up when it will need it, and it will need it a lot.

This sucky defense is the same except for a much, much better DC, but even a great motor can't run on the rims for long.

Competitveness, 'team' concept, all precursors for failure 'with hope'.

Screw that. Win now McDaniels, or be gone.

Hogan11
07-02-2009, 12:19 PM
If he goes, he goes...I won't lose a minute's sleep over it.

Lolad
07-02-2009, 12:20 PM
One thing I don't understand about the logic on this board. Some of you actually believe that if we pick up a 1st it would somehow replace BM. How many wide receivers in the 1st rd pan out let alone get over 50 catches a season??

NFLBRONCO
07-02-2009, 12:24 PM
It doesn't matter what Rod Smith would've done... Dont trade talented players.

I would have told cutler the same thing we are telling Marshall... see you at camp.

You just don't find talent like these 2 guys have. We already lost one of them... We better not lose the other.

I agree with you just saying if BM shows up and go from there its a start in the right direction.

broncofan2438
07-02-2009, 12:28 PM
BMarsh caught a 100 balls two years in a row...because JC was locked in on him 100% of the time.

He won't catch 100 balls from Orton...that's my bet.

He's got freakish ability, but he's inconsistent and he disapears when we really need a big play. Look I'm a huge fan...we got this kid in the 4th round and that was a steal...but, is he worth 9-10m/yr?

I'm not sure. Could we get somebody better with a #1 draft choice...probably not a better WR...but perhaps a NT or even a QB.

I'm not in favor of trading him...but I won't be as disapointed as I was when they let Jay go. Marshall's a WR...not a QB!

I will still think we have a good WR group and a very good TE corps. Let's face it...Orton isn't going to fling it like Jay did...there aren't going to be enough balls to go around. If we have to...we'll do just fine without him.

On the other hand...Letting Jay go...all-time stupidity.

BINGO

TonyR
07-02-2009, 12:29 PM
that's because they weren't interested in picks at that time. but the longer Jay b****ed like a little girl with a skinned knee, to the press, and stubbornly acted like a child and cut off communication with his BOSSES, Bowlen decided it was enough, and something had to be done.

They didn't go into this ordeal hoping to get picks for Jay. they wanted him to grow up act like a man and come to work. Jay forced the issue and rather than wait until TC for him to possibly **** the team over, they decided to part ways and get someone who wants to play here over someone who didn't.

Agree 100%. I don't understand why some people are so hung up on this being a "lie". That may well have been McD's position even after Bowlen made the decision to make a trade.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 12:30 PM
We should just give in to his demands and maybe he'll bless us with his admirable on field performance until his next **** up. :rofl:

He needs to show us he can "keep his nose clean" and I have no doubt he will be rewarded with a nice contract.

I had an employee who was a great general foreman, but couldn't stay out of trouble. He was getting top dollar salary and benefits, but I got tired of having to deal with his issues. I **** canned him. Best move ever.

No, I agree with you.

However, MOST LIKELY his $ value WILL drop after this season, due to the FOs change at QB and most likely an emphasis on the running game, so waiting won't do him any good.

It's not a matter of what we want.

TheDave
07-02-2009, 12:30 PM
I agree with you just saying if BM shows up and go from there its a start in the right direction.

In all sincerity I would pay the kid... he has out produced his rookie contract by a mile. Obviously, with his off field issues we would need SEVERAL clauses in the contract to protect ourselves, but as far as onfield production goes, he has earned a new deal.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 12:30 PM
I see where you are coming from Rev, but McDaniels has also repeatedly said that he will always take into consideration anything he thinks will make the team better. If a situation changes or new circumstances come to light, a person can change their stance. It doesn't mean they were lying at the time.

It is of course only my opinion, but I don't believe McDaniels intended on trading Cutler back when he was holding up Cutler's throwback jersey. I just don't see why he would lie if he knew they would turn around and trade him. I think McD would have been happy to go into training camp and try to iron things out with Cutler. But Bowlen stepped in and made the call to push the trade. Just my opinion, but it also just makes sense.

That's fine to speculate but we KNOW they certainly lied about "only answering phones" at the VERY least.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
07-02-2009, 12:31 PM
Question, Rev: How is it "spinning" to say that the FO won't make calls, but they'll take them? If we get good compensation for Marshall, we'll trade him. If not, we won't. It's not very hard to follow, but you seem to be having a very tough time.

Beantown Bronco
07-02-2009, 12:32 PM
BMarsh caught a 100 balls two years in a row...because JC was locked in on him 100% of the time.


Yeah, if you ignore the:

91 receptions Royal had last year
or the 40 Schef had
or the 49 Stokley had
or the 40 the RBs as a group had

TonyR
07-02-2009, 12:33 PM
I brought up the Plax deal for a reason...

Good point and good post. I think every team in the league is probably very cognizant of the PB/BM comparison which is one major reason why most likely Denver won't receive any good offers for BM. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

NFLBRONCO
07-02-2009, 12:33 PM
In all sincerity I would pay the kid... he has out produced his rookie contract by a mile. Obviously, with his off field issues we would need SEVERAL clauses in the contract to protect ourselves, but as far as onfield production goes, he has earned a new deal.

I would too but, I'm not the FO and I'm expecting a trade sooner or later.

yerner
07-02-2009, 12:34 PM
I think the problem may be that BMarsh might not even take the money from Denver now. Sounds like he really wants to leave the city of Denver.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 12:35 PM
Question, Rev: How is it "spinning" to say that the FO won't make calls, but they'll take them? If we get good compensation for Marshall, we'll trade him. If not, we won't. It's not very hard to follow, but you seem to be having a very tough time.

Because it's a way to say "See you in camp" and put him on the block simultaneously.

I agree with the rest of your post, though I'm inclined to believe "Good compensation" doesn't really exist.

TheDave
07-02-2009, 12:35 PM
I would too but, I'm not the FO and I'm expecting a trade sooner or later.

If they do, I hope seattle uses the 5th pick wisely...:alghh:

gyldenlove
07-02-2009, 12:39 PM
That's fine to speculate but we KNOW they certainly lied about "only answering phones" at the VERY least.

As long as Mcdaniels doesn't say "I will handle this" we are all right. I never really believed Jay would be traded until I heard that, then I knew there was no way back.

Hopefully "the player" can stay out of trouble, come to TC and get a new contract and it will all be forgotten.

NFLBRONCO
07-02-2009, 12:40 PM
If they do, I hope seattle uses the 5th pick wisely...:alghh:

no doubt they land a young QB TY Denver.

dbfan21
07-02-2009, 12:41 PM
The 2009 offseason, the ****-sandwich that never ends.

No kidding...I was full three months ago!

Tombstone RJ
07-02-2009, 12:42 PM
I wonder if Bowlen had any idea that all this would happen once he started meddling.

Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe the house the Shanny built was a house of cards?

Shanny walks away and the house crumbles, why? Maybe because it was crap to begin with?

Forget about McD. This has nothing to do with him.

How do we know that this same crap would not be happening with another HC?

Just food for thought.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 12:43 PM
no doubt they land a young QB TY Denver.

If Seattle picks Cody or Spikes I will lose it.

TheDave
07-02-2009, 12:48 PM
If Seattle picks Cody or Spikes I will lose it.

If we suffer through a 4-12 season, I'll have lost it long before Seattle gets on the clock.

broncswin
07-02-2009, 12:49 PM
"We will take calls" is how the FO spins their way out of lying through their teeth... again.

LMAO...Mr. Negativity:welcome:

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 12:51 PM
LMAO...Mr. Negativity:welcome:

Sorry, but I genuinely don't see any other POV at this one.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 12:52 PM
If we suffer through a 4-12 season, I'll have lost it long before Seattle gets on the clock.

The bright side:

In our winter weight gain thread, we can add Sunday to workout days.

summerdenver
07-02-2009, 12:59 PM
As long as Mcdaniels doesn't say "I will handle this" we are all right.

Hilarious!

Bigdawg26
07-02-2009, 01:00 PM
Well I know that the Seahawks love this situation. WAY TO GO TO MCDUMMY AND THE NEW GM WHO STINKS EVEN WORST!

Bigdawg26
07-02-2009, 01:02 PM
Hey does anybody wanna put money on Champ and Clady leaving next offseason? I'm sure Champ will be gone though!

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 01:05 PM
Hey does anybody wanna put money on Champ and Clady leaving next offseason? I'm sure Champ will be gone though!

No chance with Clady... I hope.

NFLBRONCO
07-02-2009, 01:07 PM
If they do, I hope seattle uses the 5th pick wisely...:alghh:

Think of this Dave we trade BM and use Bears #1 on a WR in 2010 that would ease your pain j/k I couldn't resist :).

TheDave
07-02-2009, 01:09 PM
No chance with Clady... I hope.

They traded one of the most talented players I had ever seen at the most important position on the field for kyle orton and 3 "loto" tickets... nothing will ever surprise me after that.

NFLBRONCO
07-02-2009, 01:11 PM
Hey does anybody wanna put money on Champ and Clady leaving next offseason? I'm sure Champ will be gone though!

I would put Champ as real likely. If we trade Clady I'll join the fire McD crowd for sure.

SureShot
07-02-2009, 01:13 PM
If we suffer through a 4-12 season, I'll have lost it long before Seattle gets on the clock.

What a disgrace. This has to be worst case scenario of an off season.

Baba Booey
07-02-2009, 01:20 PM
Cutler and Marshall gone in the same offseason.

fml

Lolad
07-02-2009, 01:21 PM
Have you ever thought that maybe, just maybe the house the Shanny built was a house of cards?

Shanny walks away and the house crumbles, why? Maybe because it was crap to begin with?

Forget about McD. This has nothing to do with him.

How do we know that this same crap would not be happening with another HC?

Just food for thought.

If we wouldve gotten spags instead of mcD we would still have cutler and an improved defense

TonyR
07-02-2009, 01:25 PM
They traded one of the most talented players I had ever seen...

Seriously? Jay has talent but this is profound hyperbole.

Taco John
07-02-2009, 01:28 PM
I just can't see this happening... no way is anyone stupid enough to get rid of a probowl QB AND a probowl WR AND trade away your 1st for next year all in one offseason.

2 out of 3 has been tough enough to stomach no way he goes for the hat-trick


This is the thing for me. Every time I try to warm up to McDaniel's I'm reminded that he traded our first away for next year (in addition to dismantling our offense - our biggest strength - while virtually ignoring our defensive line - by far our biggest weakness). I'm having a real time seeing this whole "we're fundamentally a better team" stuff.

I really want to like the guy, but I can't fathom what he's doing here. Wouldn't it have been a whole lot smarter for him to focus his attention on building a defense? I guess we'll see come September. It could be that the kid's a genius, and these guys are playing on fire for eachother come Fall. I sure hope that's what happens.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 01:28 PM
Hey does anybody wanna put money on Champ and Clady leaving next offseason?

Here we go again with this nonsense. Don't you drama queens have enough to cry about without making this stupid shiz up?

TheDave
07-02-2009, 01:30 PM
Seriously? Jay has talent but this is profound hyperbole.

By all means name a stronger armed more accurate more mobile 25 year old QB coming off his 1st probowl?

Taco John
07-02-2009, 01:35 PM
Seriously? Jay has talent but this is profound hyperbole.

I don't think it's hyperbole at all myself. In terms of pure physical ability, Jay is one of the finest quarterbacking specimen's that the game has ever seen. I'm not talking about what he's accomplished in his career - I'm talking about the package that he offers. His skillset. There might not be a quarterback in the game right now with his skillset.

Jay is easily one of the most talented players that I've ever seen. That's not hyperbole at all.

vancejohnson82
07-02-2009, 01:35 PM
By all means name a stronger armed more accurate more mobile 25 year old QB coming off his 1st probowl?

Mike Vick

TheDave
07-02-2009, 01:36 PM
This is the thing for me. Every time I try to warm up to McDaniel's I'm reminded that he traded our first away for next year (in addition to dismantling our offense - our biggest strength - while virtually ignoring our defensive line - by far our biggest weakness). I'm having a real time seeing this whole "we're fundamentally a better team" stuff.

I really want to like the guy, but I can't fathom what he's doing here. Wouldn't it have been a whole lot smarter for him to focus his attention on building a defense? I guess we'll see come September. It could be that the kid's a genius, and these guys are playing on fire for eachother come Fall. I sure hope that's what happens.

I just can't believe he would do it... Like it or not it takes SIGNIFICANT talent to win in the league. People can talk all they want to about schemes, but shanahans schemes were top notch also and we saw what happened when lesser talent tried to execute.

If McKidd wants a chance to win (and keep his job) he better find a way of keeping as much talent on this team as possible.

Taco John
07-02-2009, 01:37 PM
Mike Vick


Wow! That dog just ran out of your avatar when I hit refresh. It was just a picture of your patio.

TheDave
07-02-2009, 01:37 PM
Mike Vick

Mike Vick was one of the least accurate QB's I've ever seen... Jays accuracy on anything under 30 yards was AMAZING.

vancejohnson82
07-02-2009, 01:39 PM
Mike Vick was one of the least accurate QB's I've ever seen... Jays accuracy on anything under 30 yards was AMAZING.

how does such an accurate QB throw so many picks???

I realize that I am being a bit prickish here with the comparison, but really the comparison isnt THAT bad

TonyR
07-02-2009, 01:39 PM
By all means name a stronger armed more accurate more mobile 25 year old QB coming off his 1st probowl?

Just off the top of my head...
In our own division Philip Rivers is a better young QB. As far as youngsters go, Matt Ryan had a better first 16 games. Good arguments could easily be made in favor of Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo, among others. Talent does not equate to better. Jeff George was loaded with talent.

TheDave
07-02-2009, 01:41 PM
Just off the top of my head...
In our own division Philip Rivers is a better young QB. As far as youngsters go, Matt Ryan had a better first 16 games. Good arguments could easily be made in favor of Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo, among others. Talent does not equate to better. Jeff George was loaded with talent.

Again... TALENT is all I said. None of those QB's you mentioned have anywhere near Cutlers TALENT.

...and that includes the statue known as Jeff George.

broncswin
07-02-2009, 01:42 PM
By all means name a stronger armed more accurate more mobile 25 year old QB coming off his 1st probowl?

I love how the 1 pro bowl, yet no playoffs or winning season make this guy the next elway, montana, manning, ect...

By all means don't mention lack of leadership, moppy, diabetes, and spoiled.

Accuracy was a big issue with this guy on the deep ball and inside the redzone, so don't really know if that one counts

TheDave
07-02-2009, 01:44 PM
how does such an accurate QB throw so many picks???

I realize that I am being a bit prickish here with the comparison, but really the comparison isnt THAT bad

He's not a robot... Humans make mistakes and 25 year old gunslinger types who must throw the ball 60%+ to have a chance at winning throw picks.

It wasn't 'cause he was missing his targets he wasn't seeing the field well enough. That happens when it is only yuour 2nd full season playing.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 01:45 PM
...anywhere near...

More hyperbole.

I understand what you're saying. But do you prefer food to look good or taste good?

cousinal11
07-02-2009, 01:46 PM
It sucks that we'll never see what Jay and Co. could have done with a consistent running game and even a mediocre defense.

Taco John
07-02-2009, 01:48 PM
how does such an accurate QB throw so many picks???

I realize that I am being a bit prickish here with the comparison, but really the comparison isnt THAT bad


The comparison is actually not even in the neighborhood, and truthfully, I'm embarassed that you were serious about it. I thought it was a joke.

How does a Broncos fan honoring Vance with his user name not know the answer to the question "how does such an accurate QB throw so many picks?" The answer is the same now as it was when we were watching the Duke doing it: over-confidence.

Which, by the way, is an excellent trait for a Quarterback to have (in my book).

TheDave
07-02-2009, 01:49 PM
I love how the 1 pro bowl, yet no playoffs or winning season make this guy the next elway, montana, manning, ect...



You're the only one bringing up the HOF'ers... Re-read what I said, I said Talent. That's it.

Taco John
07-02-2009, 01:50 PM
Just off the top of my head...
In our own division Philip Rivers is a better young QB. As far as youngsters go, Matt Ryan had a better first 16 games. Good arguments could easily be made in favor of Aaron Rodgers and Tony Romo, among others. Talent does not equate to better. Jeff George was loaded with talent.


Phillip Rivers is a fine young quarterback, but he's nowhere close in talent level to Jay. He got plenty of tools to use, but his strength is between his ears, not that he's tremendously physically gifted.

TheDave
07-02-2009, 01:51 PM
More hyperbole.

I understand what you're saying. But do you prefer food to look good or taste good?

If I'm starving I don't trade EITHER a good looking meal or a Good tasting meal for a lotery ticket.

DBroncos4life
07-02-2009, 01:54 PM
I love how the 1 pro bowl, yet no playoffs or winning season make this guy the next elway, montana, manning, ect...

By all means don't mention lack of leadership, moppy, diabetes, and spoiled.

Accuracy was a big issue with this guy on the deep ball and inside the redzone, so don't really know if that one counts

Yep good old Manning just came into the NFL a winner. I mean not once in his first three years did the Colts fail to make it to the playoffs. Not once did Peyton Manning lead the NFL in INTs or anything like that.

broncswin
07-02-2009, 01:55 PM
You're the only one bringing up the HOF'ers... Re-read what I said, I said Talent. That's it.

Oh, my bad if were just talking about talent then who gives a ****, unless the person actually uses it

TheDave
07-02-2009, 01:57 PM
Oh, my bad if were just talking about talent then who gives a ****, unless the person actually uses it


You did, when you misread my post and responded to it.

Taco John
07-02-2009, 01:58 PM
Oh, my bad if were just talking about talent then who gives a ****, unless the person actually uses it


That's kind of the whole point. It was pretty nice having him using it for us.

JJJ
07-02-2009, 02:02 PM
9 million for this ass-clown. :spit:


Only guy dumb enough to make this trade is that Jones fellow in Dallas.

BM is just his style don't you think? And you know he has the cabbage.

55CrushEm
07-02-2009, 02:03 PM
Yep good old Manning just came into the NFL a winner. I mean not once in his first three years did the Colts fail to make it to the playoffs. Not once did Peyton Manning lead the NFL in INTs or anything like that.

I think the Colts were 1-15 in Manning's first year.....no playoffs. Just sayin'....

TonyR
07-02-2009, 02:03 PM
Phillip Rivers is a fine young quarterback, but he's nowhere close in talent level to Jay. He got plenty of tools to use, but his strength is between his ears, not that he's tremendously physically gifted.

I agree that Jay is more "talented", disagree that Rivers is "nowhere close".

As for the bolded part, that's what separates the bad from the mediocre, the mediocre from the good, and the good from the great. Every QB at this level has some talent, it's the intangibles that matter most. When Jay was a Bronco I feared he was short some intangibles that would keep him from every tapping all of that talent. Now I get to watch my former fears come true from afar!

Inkana7
07-02-2009, 02:04 PM
Jay Cutler's a douche. Talent doesn't mean anything if you're a mistake prone douche who has shown in 3 years that he can't learn from his mistakes.

Cutler showed his true colors with the whole trade thing. And the color was Bright Douche.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 02:04 PM
Only guy dumb enough to make this trade is that Jones fellow in Dallas.

BM is just his style don't you think? And you know he has the cabbage.

If they didn't make that terrible Roy Williams trade they'd probably be in the mix.

cousinal11
07-02-2009, 02:35 PM
Only guy dumb enough to make this trade other than Daniel Snyder is that Jones fellow in Dallas.

BM is just his style don't you think? And you know he has the cabbage.


Fixed.

NYBronco
07-02-2009, 02:40 PM
The 2009 offseason, the ****-sandwich that never ends.

That's not necessarily a bad thing as the ****-sandwich could have been fermenting for the past few years from the previous coaching leadership.

Bigdawg26
07-02-2009, 02:41 PM
Rivers is not a better nor more talented QB than Culter, but he is close. I think Rivers had a very good RB, TE, and Defense to help him out and was never really asked to win the game for his team outside of maybe last year. Although Jay had a better system and better WR's, he was asked alot of times (like last year) to win the game. He would put up 30 points a game, but the defense would give up 35 and although he has great size he can't play safety.

NFLBRONCO
07-02-2009, 02:45 PM
I think Cutler is more talented its just he must keep his emotions on the field in check. He tends to go Bill Romo on the field and it takes him out of his A game.

Taco John
07-02-2009, 02:46 PM
I think Cutler is more talented its just he must keep his emotions on the field in check. He tends to go Bill Romo on the field and it takes him out of his A game.


Cutler still had/has plenty of maturing to do, that's without a doubt.

Broncojef
07-02-2009, 02:49 PM
if we are truly cleaning house and starting from a solid base get rid of this thug, we all know he has at least 1 or 2 more good suspensions in him before he is totally worthless to us. He dislikes Denver, is a drama queen, on the verge of long term suspensions, is holding the FO hostage for more money, consistently shows terrible judgement off the field, has had injury issues during the off season that should be cause for alarm and hinders any real development (arm through the TV, bad hip etc...) Who in their right mind would sign this idiot to a long term deal?

OBF1
07-02-2009, 02:50 PM
So, do you think Denver will trade Cutler ???

TheDave
07-02-2009, 02:52 PM
if we are truly cleaning house and starting from a solid base get rid of this thug, we all know he has at least 1 or 2 more good suspensions in him before he is totally worthless to us. He dislikes Denver, is a drama queen, on the verge of long term suspensions, is holding the FO hostage for more money, consistently shows terrible judgement off the field, has had injury issues during the off season that should be cause for alarm and hinders any real development (arm through the TV, bad hip etc...) Who in their right mind would sign this idiot to a long term deal?

Me... ;D

Put the proper clauses in there to protect us from his off field issues and get the kid in camp. He has out played his rookie deal by a mile.

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 02:55 PM
we should probably just sell the team and relocate to LA before the season starts, as this season is a complete and total waste. good times guys, its been fun, but boycotting the season is the best way to go about this now.

2KBack
07-02-2009, 02:57 PM
Rivers is not a better nor more talented QB than Culter, but he is close. I think Rivers had a very good RB, TE, and Defense to help him out and was never really asked to win the game for his team outside of maybe last year. Although Jay had a better system and better WR's, he was asked alot of times (like last year) to win the game. He would put up 30 points a game, but the defense would give up 35 and although he has great size he can't play safety.

Actually Denver didn't lose a single game where the offense scored 30 points or more. Denver also only scored 30+ points in 4 games, only 1 game after the week 3. If he would put up 30 points a game, Denver would have won 13 games last season. That's an unfair task to request of any player, but you make it sound like Cutler was leading a scoring machine...he was not. The defense was obviously the greater of the problems, but really the offense performed quite below average.

bronclvr
07-02-2009, 02:59 PM
Isn't it kinda strange that this is coming up right now (with Camp 28 days away)? I mean, I know Shefter has major ties to Denver and all, but is the front office really fishing to get rid of Marshall with this? Or, is it just a slow news day and shefter is kicking up some dust? Or, is Marshall's camp doing this? The timing just seems a little wierd-

IMHO, I'm all for McDaniels getting character guys, but this is a bit too far-

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 03:00 PM
how does such an accurate QB throw so many picks???

I realize that I am being a bit prickish here with the comparison, but really the comparison isnt THAT bad

Throwing the ball over 600 times comes to mind...

NFLBRONCO
07-02-2009, 03:01 PM
If Denver really wants to trade BM wait til end of summer or better yet trade deadline.

broncswin
07-02-2009, 03:06 PM
Throwing the ball over 600 times comes to mind...

Don't you think a lot of that had to do with the last coaching staff, I mean Shanny used to be a running guru, then he gets this cutler kid and starts throwing the ball all over the place. Dont give me the defense sucked excuse and our running backs were all getting hurt, he was throwing the ball a ton before that stuff even showed its self. and if shanny knew our d was that ****ty before the season even started, then shame on shanny!!

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 03:12 PM
Don't you think a lot of that had to do with the last coaching staff, I mean Shanny used to be a running guru, then he gets this cutler kid and starts throwing the ball all over the place. Dont give me the defense sucked excuse and our running backs were all getting hurt, he was throwing the ball a ton before that stuff even showed its self. and if shanny knew our d was that ****ty before the season even started, then shame on shanny!!

Personally in that situation, I would've thrown it 90% of the plays. Take your lumps but you develop your most important and franchise player that much faster.

Also, every reason you debunked are great reasons why. He could've taken defensive help in the first or second round, but would you rather have another defensive player than O-studs like Clady who protected our old franchise QB damn near perfectly, or Royal? Because there weren't any better D FA's available.

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 03:18 PM
Personally in that situation, I would've thrown it 90% of the plays. Take your lumps but you develop your most important and franchise player that much faster.

Also, every reason you debunked are great reasons why. He could've taken defensive help in the first or second round, but would you rather have another defensive player than O-studs like Clady who protected our old franchise QB damn near perfectly, or Royal? Because there weren't any better D FA's available.

do you not understand tahts exactly what this years franchise did? they were not better defense players available that would contribute like the offensive players they picked, so they didnt pick them, but when shanahan did it its ok. you are dense

oubronco
07-02-2009, 03:40 PM
I wonder if Bowlen had any idea that all this would happen once he started meddling.

Shanny should've just canned Slowdyck

Taco John
07-02-2009, 03:43 PM
Shanny should've just canned Slowdyck


I don't think that Slowik had anything to do with Bowlen's decision.

2KBack
07-02-2009, 03:45 PM
Throwing the ball over 600 times comes to mind...

I've been looking into this particular subject recently and have come to the conclusion that throwing the ball that much has never been a good idea. There have been 19 600+ attempt seasons and not a single one has led to a championship. It did lead to 13 probowls counting Cutlers. So the lesson is, Team success be damned, you wanna make a probowl, just throw all the time.

oubronco
07-02-2009, 03:46 PM
I don't think that Slowik had anything to do with Bowlen's decision.

Didn't Bowlen tell him to shytcan him and Shanny said no then got fired?

Hogan11
07-02-2009, 03:48 PM
Didn't Bowlen tell him to shytcan him and Shanny said no then got fired?

So the story goes....Shanahan finally wanted stability @ DC, too bad he picked arguably the worst DC in history to get behind

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 04:16 PM
I've been looking into this particular subject recently and have come to the conclusion that throwing the ball that much has never been a good idea. There have been 19 600+ attempt seasons and not a single one has led to a championship. It did lead to 13 probowls counting Cutlers. So the lesson is, Team success be damned, you wanna make a probowl, just throw all the time.

Good observation, but situations dictate the playcall, not the other way around.

Tombstone RJ
07-02-2009, 05:49 PM
If we wouldve gotten spags instead of mcD we would still have cutler and an improved defense

Hilarious!

Yah, ok.

Seriously, you don't have a clue as to what Cutler would have thought of Spagz. Perhaps Spagz would have brought in a new offensive coordinator and then Jay would have been all PO'd about that and left anyway.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 06:08 PM
Hilarious!

Yah, ok.

Seriously, you don't have a clue as to what Cutler would have thought of Spagz. Perhaps Spagz would have brought in a new offensive coordinator and then Jay would have been all PO'd about that and left anyway.

Considering he's kept Mark Bulger, I think he would've been fine keeping Cutler and probably Bates too.

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 06:08 PM
Hilarious!

Yah, ok.

Seriously, you don't have a clue as to what Cutler would have thought of Spagz. Perhaps Spagz would have brought in a new offensive coordinator and then Jay would have been all PO'd about that and left anyway.

spagz woulda brought a run first ground and pound offense, and after every loss, guess who cutler would blame? the offensive gameplan for not letting him do his job, or if he threw 35 times, hed blame the defense. never cutlers fault.

outdoor_miner
07-02-2009, 06:13 PM
Considering he's kept Mark Bulger, I think he would've been fine keeping Cutler and probably Bates too.

I think you're right about Cutler (I really believe that McDaniels + Cassel availability created the perfect storm for that effin ridiculousness), but I'm not sure about Bates. I remember hearing that Spags believes in the Coughlin "run it down your throat" philosophy. Cutler might not have been so happy with that scenario in the long run, either.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 06:19 PM
I think you're right about Cutler (I really believe that McDaniels + Cassel availability created the perfect storm for that effin ridiculousness), but I'm not sure about Bates. I remember hearing that Spags believes in the Coughlin "run it down your throat" philosophy. Cutler might not have been so happy with that scenario in the long run, either.

Odds are he'd currently still be here. And if successful, then who couldn't be happy with it? FFS, Ben Roethlisberger has two rings, and at this point, really deserves none. In 8 quarters of SB play, he sucked for 7.

elsid13
07-02-2009, 06:30 PM
I think Cutler is more talented its just he must keep his emotions on the field in check. He tends to go Bill Romo on the field and it takes him out of his A game.

You post that, but Stokely and other veterans during the season were quoted as saying that Cutler very calm in huddle and kept the offense balance no matter what happened.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 06:30 PM
Ben Roethlisberger has two rings, and at this point, really deserves none. In 8 quarters of SB play, he sucked for 7.

Yea, that 93.2 rating he put up against Zona SUCKED! I predict he won't make the roster this year. It's Dennis Dixon's job to lose.

TonyR
07-02-2009, 06:34 PM
...Stokely and other veterans during the season were quoted as saying that Cutler very calm in huddle and kept the offense balance no matter what happened.

The same veterans came vociferously to his defense during the meltdown that led to his trade, and have actively defended him in the press since the trade. Oh, wait, that didn't happen. But he has been called a baby and a loser by member of the Chargers and Jets, does that count for anything?

Atlas
07-02-2009, 06:34 PM
9 million for this ass-clown. :spit:

Grow up!
Stop ****ing up!
Play Hard!

...then you'll get to reap the rewards.

He does play very hard. You can say what you want about the other things, but when he is on the field he is all business.

elsid13
07-02-2009, 06:40 PM
The same veterans came vociferously to his defense during the meltdown that led to his trade, and have actively defended him in the press since the trade. Oh, wait, that didn't happen. But he has been called a baby and a loser by member of the Chargers and Jets, does that count for anything?

Actually they all said that wanted him back and wanted him on the team. Remember Graham called McDaniels to make sure that Cutler wasn't getting traded after the rumors broke??? Or that Wiegman stated that it was really important that Cutler should come back??? Or Marshall had tirade??? Or that Boss Bailey stated on Atlanta radio show that everyone in locker room loved him???

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 06:41 PM
Yea, that 93.2 rating he put up against Zona SUCKED! I predict he won't make the roster this year. It's Dennis Dixon's job to lose.

Did you purposely ignore the "He sucked for 7"?

That game, his rating was an 80 heading into the fourth quarter with 0 TDs, 1 INT, 3 sacks.

One good drive at the end of the game pulled him to that 93.2

Pittsburgh Steelers (12-4-0)
1st Quarter
Start
Time Time
Poss Drive
Began # of
Plays Net
Yards Result
15:00 5:15 PIT 28 9 71 Field Goal
06:13 7:12 PIT 31 11 69 Touchdown
2nd Quarter
Start
Time Time
Poss Drive
Began # of
Plays Net
Yards Result
08:34 4:18 PIT 22 5 12 Punt
02:46 0:46 PIT 16 2 6 Interception
3rd Quarter
Start
Time Time
Poss Drive
Began # of
Plays Net
Yards Result
10:50 8:39 PIT 18 16 79 Field Goal
4th Quarter
Start
Time Time
Poss Drive
Began # of
Plays Net
Yards Result
13:41 2:11 PIT 43 3 -5 Punt
07:33 2:05 PIT 24 3 4 Punt
03:26 0:28 PIT 1 2 -1 Safety
02:37 2:02 PIT 22 8 78 Touchdown
00:05 0:05 PIT 29 1 -1 End of Game

db56
07-02-2009, 06:48 PM
BMarsh caught a 100 balls two years in a row...because JC was locked in on him 100% of the time.

He won't catch 100 balls from Orton...that's my bet.

He's got freakish ability, but he's inconsistent and he disapears when we really need a big play. Look I'm a huge fan...we got this kid in the 4th round and that was a steal...but, is he worth 9-10m/yr?

I'm not sure. Could we get somebody better with a #1 draft choice...probably not a better WR...but perhaps a NT or even a QB.

I'm not in favor of trading him...but I won't be as disapointed as I was when they let Jay go. Marshall's a WR...not a QB!

I will still think we have a good WR group and a very good TE corps. Let's face it...Orton isn't going to fling it like Jay did...there aren't going to be enough balls to go around. If we have to...we'll do just fine without him.

On the other hand...Letting Jay go...all-time stupidity.

Perfecto!

Bob's your Information Minister
07-02-2009, 07:02 PM
BM should stand for Bowel Movement around here by now, huh guys?

TonyR
07-02-2009, 07:11 PM
...his rating was an 80 heading into the fourth quarter...

Well, 80 isn't all that bad (your boy Jay was below 80 the final 3 games of last season when we needed ONE win) and getting it done in the 4th quarter of big games is what it's all about.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 07:17 PM
Well, 80 isn't all that bad (your boy Jay was below 80 the final 3 games of last season when we needed ONE win) and getting it done in the 4th quarter of big games is what it's all about.

And everyone of those teams was significantly defensively stronger than Arizona, so what's your point?

TonyR
07-02-2009, 07:29 PM
...so what's your point?

My overriding point is that saying a QB who puts up a 93.2 in a Super Bowl "sucks" is just a little ridiculous. It's one thing to criticize his performance in the Seattle Super Bowl win, quite another in the Zona win.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 07:36 PM
My overriding point is that saying a QB who puts up a 93.2 in a Super Bowl "sucks" is just a little ridiculous. It's one thing to criticize his performance in the Seattle Super Bowl win, quite another in the Zona win.

He had a good quarter... by the way, look at that 4th quarter that jacked up his "QB rating" that you seem so fond of.

Pass short right
Pass short left
Pass short right

Receivers making plays. Not the QB.

Pittsburgh Steelers at 13:41
1-10-PIT 43 (13:41) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short middle to 86-H.Ward (26-R.Hood) [24-A.Wilson]. PENALTY on ARI-26-R.Hood, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 43 - No Play.
1-10-PIT 48 (13:34) 39-W.Parker left end to ARI 46 for 6 yards (58-K.Dansby).
2-4-ARI 46 (12:53) 39-W.Parker left guard to 50 for -4 yards (90-D.Dockett).
3-8- (12:07) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 38 for -12 yards (90-D.Dockett).
4-20-PIT 38 (11:42) (Punt formation) 17-M.Berger punts 49 yards to ARI 13, Center-61-J.Retkofsky. 15-S.Breaston to ARI 13 for no gain (22-W.Gay).

Pittsburgh Steelers at 07:33
1-N.Rackers kicks 63 yards from ARI 30 to PIT 7. 38-C.Davis to PIT 24 for 17 yards (93-C.Campbell).
1-10-PIT 24 (7:25) 39-W.Parker right guard to PIT 28 for 4 yards (52-M.Beisel).
2-6-PIT 28 (6:44) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger sacked at PIT 18 for -10 yards (90-D.Dockett).
3-16-PIT 18 (6:06) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 83-H.Miller pushed ob at PIT 28 for 10 yards (26-R.Hood).
4-6-PIT 28 (5:42) (Punt formation) 17-M.Berger punts 47 yards to ARI 25, Center-61-J.Retkofsky, downed by PIT-57-K.Fox.

Pittsburgh Steelers at 03:26
1-10-PIT 1 (3:26) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to 86-H.Ward [94-A.Smith].
2-10-PIT 1 (3:21) 39-W.Parker up the middle to PIT 1 for no gain (55-T.LaBoy).
Timeout #1 by ARI at 03:04.
3-10-PIT 1 (3:04) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep right to 10-S.Holmes to PIT 20 for 19 yards (29-D.Rodgers-Cromartie). PENALTY on PIT-62-J.Hartwig, Offensive Holding, 1 yard, enforced in End Zone, SAFETY - No Play.
PIT 20 ARZ 16 Plays: 2 Possession: 0:28

Pittsburgh Steelers at 02:37
1-N.Rackers kicks 69 yards from ARI 30 to PIT 1. 38-C.Davis to PIT 22 for 21 yards (87-S.Morey, 52-M.Beisel).
1-10-PIT 22 (2:30) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short left to 21-M.Moore pushed ob at PIT 21 for -1 yards (24-A.Wilson). PENALTY on PIT-68-C.Kemoeatu, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 22 - No Play.
1-20-PIT 12 (2:24) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes to PIT 26 for 14 yards (29-D.Rodgers-Cromartie).
2-6-PIT 26 (2:00) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to 85-N.Washington (47-A.Francisco).
Two-Minute Warning
3-6-PIT 26 (1:56) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes to PIT 39 for 13 yards (58-K.Dansby).
1-10-PIT 39 (1:33) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 85-N.Washington to 50 for 11 yards (24-A.Wilson).
1-10- (1:08) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger scrambles up the middle to ARI 46 for 4 yards (56-C.Okeafor, 58-K.Dansby).
Timeout #2 by PIT at 01:02.
2-6-ARI 46 (1:02) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes to ARI 6 for 40 yards (47-A.Francisco).
Timeout #3 by PIT at 00:49.
1-6-ARI 6 (:48) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to 10-S.Holmes.
2-6-ARI 6 (:42) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short right to 10-S.Holmes for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN. The Replay Assistant challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld.
(Kick formation) 3-Je.Reed extra point is GOOD, Center-61-J.Retkofsky, Holder-17-M.Berger.
PIT 27 ARZ 23 Plays: 8 Possession: 2:02

----------------

Wow. Stellar. Hilarious!

rastaman
07-02-2009, 07:38 PM
It sucks that we'll never see what Jay and Co. could have done with a consistent running game and even a mediocre defense.

Bingo! Shanahan should have been allowed to leave on his own terms. Its not like the hiring of McKiddy guranteed anything impactful. The Broncos were closer to returning to winning under Shanahan, than we are to winning under McDisaster. We were not rebuilding under Shanahan in 08....Shanahan had Denver ready for a return to the top of the AFC west. Now there's too much uncertainity.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 07:45 PM
Bingo! Shanahan should have been allowed to leave on his own terms. Its not like the hiring of McKiddy guranteed anything impactful. The Broncos were closer to returning to winning under Shanahan, than we are to winning under McDisaster. We were not rebuilding under Shanahan in 08....Shanahan had Denver ready for a return to the top of the AFC west. Now there's too much uncertainity.

"McDisaster" I like.

Do you mind if I use it?

rastaman
07-02-2009, 07:50 PM
I love how the 1 pro bowl, yet no playoffs or winning season make this guy the next elway, montana, manning, ect...

By all means don't mention lack of leadership, moppy, diabetes, and spoiled.

Accuracy was a big issue with this guy on the deep ball and inside the redzone, so don't really know if that one counts

How many pro bowls and playoff victories and winning seasons has Orton had in his 5 year career thus far???

How soon will Orton get his first pro bowl appearance and playoff wins under McD? How long will the fans be required to wait before a career journeyman QB prove everyone wrong!!! After all, isn't this the guy who couldn't beat out Grossman and Gresie?

How long will Orton continue to use the crutch of his new found marriage as the reason he stopped drinking. No marriage is guaranteed, so if his marriage ends does this means Kyle returns to his drinking binges and his drunken ways??? Boy his liver must be in great shape.....right

rastaman
07-02-2009, 07:51 PM
"McDisaster" I like.

Do you mind if I use it?

Sure be my guest. The 33 year old coach has a lot to prove.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-02-2009, 08:01 PM
Bingo! Shanahan should have been allowed to leave on his own terms. Its not like the hiring of McKiddy guranteed anything impactful. The Broncos were closer to returning to winning under Shanahan, than we are to winning under McDisaster. We were not rebuilding under Shanahan in 08....Shanahan had Denver ready for a return to the top of the AFC west. Now there's too much uncertainity.

If you actually think that Shanahan was close to returning to winning in '09, you're not paying attention. Shanny in '09 meant the same abomination of a defensive coaching staff filled with the same players who are still on the FA market after 4 months of free agency. Yeah, this team was so close to returning to glory. He rolls with the same RBs too, the ones that are also still free agents. Shanahan in '09 is praying he can pull the defensive equivalents of Clady and Royal out of his ass on draft, something he's proven for years that he can't do (see the '08 Denver Broncos defense if you don't understand it).

Whether or not Shanahan should have been allowed to go out on his own terms is another debate, but this team wasn't going anywhere this year regardless of who was on the sidelines with the headset.

2KBack
07-02-2009, 08:03 PM
Good observation, but situations dictate the playcall, not the other way around.

correction: Situations SHOULD dictate the playcall. That was not the case last season. It was showcase passing all the way with little concern for avoiding turnovers and ball control.

Drek
07-02-2009, 08:05 PM
Bingo! Shanahan should have been allowed to leave on his own terms. Its not like the hiring of McKiddy guranteed anything impactful. The Broncos were closer to returning to winning under Shanahan, than we are to winning under McDisaster. We were not rebuilding under Shanahan in 08....Shanahan had Denver ready for a return to the top of the AFC west. Now there's too much uncertainity.

You are deluding yourself.

Shanahan's collection of no accountability, mentally weak pussies (Cutler, Marshall, etc.) are the very reason this team chokes games away. Its how he built the front seven of the defense, its how he hired his coaches, and its now becoming very apparent its how he staffed the offense as well.

He bred a losing mentality in Denver, which is shocking since he teamed with Elway to breed the winning mentality of now nearly a decade ago. But since then he **** the bed and he is directly responsible for the two major player personnel issues we've seen this off-season, when his coddled little babies couldn't handle a coach who expects them to play within a team dynamic and prove it on the field before they get the rewards associated with the hype.

DarkHorse30
07-02-2009, 08:06 PM
Question, Rev: How is it "spinning" to say that the FO won't make calls, but they'll take them? If we get good compensation for Marshall, we'll trade him. If not, we won't. It's not very hard to follow, but you seem to be having a very tough time.

As I stated earlier, EVERY front office takes calls on EVERY player, EVERY time.

It's funny how far some of these fans have gone out on the limb for a player who likely hasn't cared about them from the beginning.

Also interesting is the rehash how it's everybody but the player's fault. Imagine any coworker in any job, refusing to speak to his employer. Dumb.

rastaman
07-02-2009, 08:08 PM
Well, 80 isn't all that bad (your boy Jay was below 80 the final 3 games of last season when we needed ONE win) and getting it done in the 4th quarter of big games is what it's all about.

Again, please explain how any QB can win its last three games w/o a viable consistent running attack down the STRETCH, especially with Tatum Bell and Selvin Young your RBBC!!!! I'm sure in 2009, both T. Bell and Selvin Young will be valuable contributors to an NFL team that needs a robust running attack. Infact I was hoping McDisaster would have retained both Tatum and Young and named them as his starters for 2009!.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 08:09 PM
If you actually think that Shanahan was close to returning to winning in '09, you're not paying attention. Shanny in '09 meant the same abomination of a defensive coaching staff filled with the same players who are still on the FA market after 4 months of free agency. Yeah, this team was so close to returning to glory. He rolls with the same RBs too, the ones that are also still free agents. Shanahan in '09 is praying he can pull the defensive equivalents of Clady and Royal out of his ass on draft, something he's proven for years that he can't do (see the '08 Denver Broncos defense if you don't understand it).

Whether or not Shanahan should have been allowed to go out on his own terms is another debate, but this team wasn't going anywhere this year regardless of who was on the sidelines with the headset.

This HAS been beaten to death, but I like you and like talking to you, so why not?

Per your post:

Maybe, maybe not and I think your post contradicts itself.

IF Shanahan ignored the RB position, as you say, then he would've used all the resources on defensive talent, as the offense was set outside of RB.

So, we would've had millions in FA to attack talented defensive players and considering the only one I like is Andra Davis, in my opinion, we would've ended up with better players. Maybe a Ray Lewis/Bart Scott, maybe a Jermaine Phillips in the secondary, maybe a Bryant McFadden on the outside and Dre Bly in the nickel (he cost money to cut, as you're well aware), maybe a Chris Canty on the line.

And then draft picks. Defensive help in the front seven at 12, or maybe a Peppers trade?

I'm not sure how any of that looks worse... especially considering we'd be returning the #2 offense in the NFL and Hillis probably would be starting at RB, and I don't think that's a bad thing whatsoever.

NYBronco
07-02-2009, 08:13 PM
Sure be my guest. The 33 year old coach has a lot to prove.

And the great mastermind Shanahan with all his years of wisdom and experience still couldn't put together a respectable defense, year, after year after embarrassing year.

McDisaster vs. Shanafail great debate lives on, only McDisaster hasn't fielded a team yet.

rastaman
07-02-2009, 08:14 PM
You are deluding yourself.

Shanahan's collection of no accountability, mentally weak pussies (Cutler, Marshall, etc.) are the very reason this team chokes games away. Its how he built the front seven of the defense, its how he hired his coaches, and its now becoming very apparent its how he staffed the offense as well.

He bred a losing mentality in Denver, which is shocking since he teamed with Elway to breed the winning mentality of now nearly a decade ago. But since then he **** the bed and he is directly responsible for the two major player personnel issues we've seen this off-season, when his coddled little babies couldn't handle a coach who expects them to play within a team dynamic and prove it on the field before they get the rewards associated with the hype.

Hey, you're entitled to your own opinions DUDE!!! We ar in for a long drought and will wish Bowlen had given Shanny two more years to see what the Class of 2006, 2007, and 2008 could have accomplished. We are now facing a rebuilding period of 2-3 years or longer...especially with the departure of Cutler.......Kyle Jake Orton just isn't the answer. You will see.

Hercules Rockefeller
07-02-2009, 08:16 PM
So, we would've had millions in FA to attack talented defensive players and considering the only one I like is Andra Davis, in my opinion, we would've ended up with better players. Maybe a Ray Lewis/Bart Scott, maybe a Jermaine Phillips in the secondary, maybe a Bryant McFadden on the outside and Dre Bly in the nickel (he cost money to cut, as you're well aware), maybe a Chris Canty on the line.

And then draft picks. Defensive help in the front seven at 12, or maybe a Peppers trade?

I'm not sure how any of that looks worse... especially considering we'd be returning the #2 offense in the NFL and Hillis probably would be starting at RB, and I don't think that's a bad thing whatsoever.

The crop of defensive FAs wasn't that strong, and who is to say he would have been provided the financial resources by Bowlen to make any of those moves? Bowlen's gone cheap, Klis even said the decision to trade away their own '10 1st over Chicago's was in part financially motivated. Still would you have any confidence in any defensive FA move being successful here with the same defensive coaching staff?

The only things we know for sure were in my post, defensive coaching staff was not going to be fired and all those guys that McDaniels dumped on defense are still out there for any team to sign after 4 months.

rastaman
07-02-2009, 08:19 PM
And the great mastermind Shanahan with all his years of wisdom and experience still couldn't put together a respectable defense, year, after year after embarrassing year.

McDisaster vs. Shanafail great debate lives on, only McDisaster hasn't fielded a team yet.

So how long have you been playing the lottery...huh? Better yet, historically how have 30 something year old HC prevailed in the NFL? The law of averages ain't great for their success with thier first HC stint.

McDisaster won't be any different. Not only has Denver embarked upon a period of uncertainity but the odds are in 3-4 years, Denver will be getting a new HC and embarking upon another REBUILIDING PERIOD.

You had better hope I'm wrong.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 08:21 PM
The crop of defensive FAs wasn't that strong, and who is to say he would have been provided the financial resources by Bowlen to make any of those moves? Bowlen's gone cheap, Klis even said the decision to trade away their own '10 1st over Chicago's was in part financially motivated. Still would you have any confidence in any defensive FA move being successful here with the same defensive coaching staff?

The only things we know for sure were in my post, defensive coaching staff was not going to be fired and all those guys that McDaniels dumped on defense are still out there for any team to sign after 4 months.

Wasn't that strong? That's ridiculous.

Scott, Canty, Phillips (even ignoring Lewis considering it was 99% he was returning to Balt) are all VERY good players.

And you're a cap guy! Signing Phillips was on par with the price we paid Dawkins. Signing McFadden cheaper than Goodman, and save extra money keeping Bly for the nickel.

That's a revamped, YOUNGER secondary for CHEAPER than what we spent!

That leaves plenty of money to target a Scott or Canty instead of Fields, the Miami safety, burnt Dawkins, etc.

And all that is BEFORE the draft where you stated we would've ignored RB, so we can assume the majority of our picks, and all early picks, would go to defensively talented football players.

You're disproving yourself...

Inkana7
07-02-2009, 08:28 PM
You're forgetting the fact that both Scott and Canty were paid much, much more than they were worth by the Jets and Giants. That and Goodman is far superior than Bryant McFadden.

But your plan would work in Madden! :)

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 09:04 PM
You're forgetting the fact that both Scott and Canty were paid much, much more than they were worth by the Jets and Giants. That and Goodman is far superior than Bryant McFadden.

But your plan would work in Madden! :)

So, to you, an:

Impact 3-4 experienced linebacker IN HIS PRIME isn't worth 8 million a year?

or an

Impact 3-4 experienced DE IN HIS PRIME isn't worth 7 million a year?

Because we're paying a safety way past his prime effectively 5 million a year for 2 years.

So, your opinion = :spit:

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 09:07 PM
Also, McFadden is bigger, younger, and with three less seasons in the NFL is comparable statistically. So keep chugging that Koolaid when the fact is, we placed a premium on signing and paying AFCE players to contracts they're not worth....

I wonder why.......

TonyR
07-02-2009, 09:12 PM
We ar in for a long drought and will wish Bowlen had given Shanny two more years...

You, and those of your ilk, are effing hilarious! A long drought? Like the 1 playoff win in TEN YEARS? Like missing the playoffs the last three? Yes, let's give that guy MORE time to straighten the mess out. Hell, let's give him a lifetime pass!

DarkHorse30
07-02-2009, 09:31 PM
Wasn't that strong? That's ridiculous.

Scott, Canty, Phillips (even ignoring Lewis considering it was 99% he was returning to Balt) are all VERY good players.

And you're a cap guy! Signing Phillips was on par with the price we paid Dawkins. Signing McFadden cheaper than Goodman, and save extra money keeping Bly for the nickel.

That's a revamped, YOUNGER secondary for CHEAPER than what we spent!

That leaves plenty of money to target a Scott or Canty instead of Fields, the Miami safety, burnt Dawkins, etc.

And all that is BEFORE the draft where you stated we would've ignored RB, so we can assume the majority of our picks, and all early picks, would go to defensively talented football players.

You're disproving yourself...

And.....you're not?

What makes you think Shanahan knows how to draft defense? And the only great defensive player he got in FA was by trading away a potential franchise back (Portis).

SoCalBronco
07-02-2009, 09:46 PM
I wonder if Bowlen had any idea that all this would happen once he started meddling.

It couldn't happen to a more deserving guy.

I'm glad he will finally have to sleep in the bed that he made. He's going to get a ton of unshirted hell and its coming soon....quite soon. I wonder how he will react.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 09:48 PM
And.....you're not?

What makes you think Shanahan knows how to draft defense? And the only great defensive player he got in FA was by trading away a potential franchise back (Portis).

He also drafted two of the best defensive front seven players of the decade in Al Wilson and Trevor Pryce, and then the misfortune of John Mobley.

Everyone has misses, but we also had some well above average, but unspectacular players like DJ, Berry, Hayward, Gold, Kennedy, and more.

But let's look at your post closer.

These are the four players that went off the board after 12, one of which would've been drafted by Shanny/Goodman. Which do you expect to bust?

Orakpo, Jenkins, Cushing and English

I LOVE Jenkins and English. LIKE Orakpo and my feelings on Cushing are well documented. Regardless, any would be an instant starter on D.

On to round 2. I LIKE McBath, but guys like Kruger, Will Moore, and Fili Moala were on the board. 2 would be GREAT additions to the front seven.

Later in the draft, we had shots at guys like Terrance Taylor, Sen'derrick Marks would've taken a trade back into the 2nd round but would provide another impact interior DL instead of another blocking TE...

So yeah, I think the chances of significantly upgrading our defense under Shanahan (who btw, has a better defensive record during his tenure here than defensive minded coaches Bill Belicek, Tony Dungy and Jeff Fischer).

ZONA
07-02-2009, 09:52 PM
There's going to be somebody who will offer up a 1st round pick. Teams always say they want good character guys but the bottom line is they want proven talent even more so then good character. BM has legal problems, sure, but they are domestic. Although I don't believe it's a good thing to get into fights with women, at least he's not dealing drugs, carrying around guns and stuff. The fact is, in the world of sports, his off the field problems are not that bad. To date, he's only been suspended 1 game for his career. He does have issues and needs to fix them but he's by far not the worst apple that's out there. I have no problems at all with his play. He's a stud, period. If it were me, I would sign him to larger contract but protect yourself with a clause should he get suspended for off the field issues. His play has proved he deserves a raise. Take the risk away with a clause. It's not that hard.


And to Rev and anybody else who, once again, has to bring in the FO lied crap, good god we are so done with that already. Any team is going to take calls on any player, except for a handful of elite players. This is so not a story it's not even funny. But some people on here have to go ape schit again because the Broncos front office is mentioned.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 09:55 PM
There's going to be somebody who will offer up a 1st round pick. Teams always say they want good character guys but the bottom line is they want proven talent even more so then good character. BM has legal problems, sure, but they are domestic. Although I don't believe it's a good thing to get into fights with women, at least he's not dealing drugs, carrying around guns and stuff. The fact is, in the world of sports, his off the field problems are not that bad. To date, he's only been suspended 1 game for his career. He does have issues and needs to fix them but he's by far not the worst apple that's out there. I have no problems at all with his play. He's a stud, period. If it were me, I would sign him to larger contract but protect yourself with a clause should he get suspended for off the field issues. His play has proved he deserves a raise. Take the risk away with a clause. It's not that hard.


And to Rev and anybody else who, once again, has to bring in the FO lied crap, good god we are so done with that already. Any team is going to take calls on any player, except for a handful of elite players. This is so not a story it's not even funny. But some people on here have to go ape schit again because the Broncos front office is mentioned.

So wait... to you beating women is worse than carrying a gun?

I'm as admittedly as mysogynist as the next, but are you for real?

Atlas
07-02-2009, 09:55 PM
I like how you try to spin this, instead of actually going after the merits of the post about how the "FO was lying... again".

Very sad.

As for your posts, wouldn't suggesting I become a Bear's fan be more logical? Afterall, it's this Patriots disciple that has me raging about the current FO.

One more thing, I think this comment is funny coming from you, considering the volume of people that have begged you to leave because you spew the same shtick over and over.

You know Rev anyone that doesn't agree with tsiguy96 is a traitor to the Bronco Organization. It's the Rush Limbaugh effect. If you criticize Rush you're a traitor to the Republican party.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 09:57 PM
You know Rev anyone that doesn't agree with tsiguy96 is a traitor to the Bronco Organization. It's the Rush Limbaugh effect. If you criticize Rush you're a traitor to the Republican party.

I've already documented how easily his own opinion changes when the FO tells him to.

A day before the Shanahan firing he voted emphatically in favor of keeping him and that he was great, etc. The day he got fired the vote changed to "It was time for a change"

WTF...? The only thing that happened was a Pat Bowlen presser...

DarkHorse30
07-02-2009, 09:58 PM
He also drafted two of the best defensive front seven players of the decade in Al Wilson and Trevor Pryce, and then the misfortune of John Mobley.

Everyone has misses, but we also had some well above average, but unspectacular players like DJ, Berry, Hayward, Gold, Kennedy, and more.

But let's look at your post closer.

These are the four players that went off the board after 12, one of which would've been drafted by Shanny/Goodman. Which do you expect to bust?

Orakpo, Jenkins, Cushing and English

I LOVE Jenkins and English. LIKE Orakpo and my feelings on Cushing are well documented. Regardless, any would be an instant starter on D.

On to round 2. I LIKE McBath, but guys like Kruger, Will Moore, and Fili Moala were on the board. 2 would be GREAT additions to the front seven.

Later in the draft, we had shots at guys like Terrance Taylor, Sen'derrick Marks would've taken a trade back into the 2nd round but would provide another impact interior DL instead of another blocking TE...

So yeah, I think the chances of significantly upgrading our defense under Shanahan (who btw, has a better defensive record during his tenure here than defensive minded coaches Bill Belicek, Tony Dungy and Jeff Fischer).

you can post til the cows come home, but you won't convince me that Shanahan wouldn't have f'd up drafting defense. He ALWAYS did.

And you're actually criticizing the draft of McD before a down is played....while voodoo'g up some imaginary picks from Shanahan.....that would be much better.....if he picked them?

Classic. :hitself:

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 10:05 PM
you can post til the cows come home, but you won't convince me that Shanahan wouldn't have f'd up drafting defense. He ALWAYS did.

And you're actually criticizing the draft of McD before a down is played....while voodoo'g up some imaginary picks from Shanahan.....that would be much better.....if he picked them?

Classic. :hitself:

Always did? Really? Hilarious!

And, yes, I followed the drafted players closely, and I'm expressing my opinion on the drafted players as opposed to available players. This is the purpose of a message board. You should read up on it.

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 10:08 PM
You know Rev anyone that doesn't agree with tsiguy96 is a traitor to the Bronco Organization. It's the Rush Limbaugh effect. If you criticize Rush you're a traitor to the Republican party.

no, criticizing is one thing, but to call doom and gloom and whine constnatly about how bad the team will be when we dont know if they will be good given the number of question marks is entirely different. especially people who spend so many hours per day talking about how bad the team will be, why not try to have fun with it instead, its mind boggling.

DarkHorse30
07-02-2009, 10:13 PM
Always did? Really? Hilarious!

And, yes, I followed the drafted players closely, and I'm expressing my opinion on the drafted players as opposed to available players. This is the purpose of a message board. You should read up on it.

fine, but do I get the last word? Because whoever posts last wins......and I think I won because you're making stuff up now that has nothing to do with Hercules' post. Your "expressed opinion" is that your picks are better than McD's guys......and that Shanahan would have picked your picks. I don't think reading up on clairvoyance will help me with your post.

tsiguy96
07-02-2009, 10:16 PM
fine, but do I get the last word? Because whoever posts last wins......and I think I won because you're making stuff up now that has nothing to do with Hercules' post. Your "expressed opinion" is that your picks are better than McD's guys......and that Shanahan would have picked your picks. I don't think reading up on clairvoyance will help me with your post.

dont you know? therev has tons of experience with NFL players, coaching and knows exactly what players have what skillsets that will fit the scheme and who wont. dont question rev.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 10:18 PM
fine, but do I get the last word? Because whoever posts last wins......and I think I won because you're making stuff up now that has nothing to do with Hercules' post. Your "expressed opinion" is that your picks are better than McD's guys......and that Shanahan would have picked your picks. I don't think reading up on clairvoyance will help me with your post.

No, sir, you're clearly reading it wrong. I suggest you read through again.

What I've done is display that on HIS terms, every resource WOULD HAVE gone to defensive help. Afterall, he stated we would've ignored the RB position.

Now, after that, I displayed the wealth of available talented players in the FA market AND through the draft.

The opportunity and picks were certainly available and on HIS TERMS, they would've gone to the defense.

Read it through again, it's clearly evident.

And yes, you may have the last post because I simply do not care. Just don't misinterpret what I'm saying again.

Atlas
07-03-2009, 02:17 AM
no, criticizing is one thing, but to call doom and gloom and whine constnatly about how bad the team will be when we dont know if they will be good given the number of question marks is entirely different. especially people who spend so many hours per day talking about how bad the team will be, why not try to have fun with it instead, its mind boggling.

We are stating our opinions, just like what you do. The problem you have is that we don't agree with you.

NYBronco
07-03-2009, 05:51 AM
So how long have you been playing the lottery...huh? Better yet, historically how have 30 something year old HC prevailed in the NFL? The law of averages ain't great for their success with thier first HC stint.

McDisaster won't be any different. Not only has Denver embarked upon a period of uncertainity but the odds are in 3-4 years, Denver will be getting a new HC and embarking upon another REBUILIDING PERIOD.

You had better hope I'm wrong.

That's where my views are different, I do have hope and optimism that McD will rebuild this team into a playoff caliber team in a short period of time. Shanahan had more then his fair share of time and benefit of doubt to succeed. The game just seemed to be getting away from him. A fresh approach is in the works now and I prefer to support it.

Time will soon reveal the efforts of McD but that was a common theme with Shanahan and his efforts.

TonyR
07-03-2009, 06:56 AM
...you won't convince me that Shanahan wouldn't have f'd up drafting defense.

Shanny would've drafted Maualuga who no other team thought was even worthy of a 1st round pick. Remember there were several people on this board (you know who you are) who advocated taking him with one of our first rounders. But, the more I think about it, Shanny taking Moreno wouldn't have shocked me all that much either. Even he had to finally see that plugging in scrubs at the RB position wasn't working any more.

gyldenlove
07-03-2009, 08:36 AM
Shanny would've drafted Maualuga who no other team thought was even worthy of a 1st round pick. Remember there were several people on this board (you know who you are) who advocated taking him with one of our first rounders. But, the more I think about it, Shanny taking Moreno wouldn't have shocked me all that much either. Even he had to finally see that plugging in scrubs at the RB position wasn't working any more.

That is that settled then, no reason to argue anymore since our resident expert can predict exactly what would happen. How many games would we have won with Shanny and Cutler on the team in 2009? just so we have something to compare to.

OrangeRising
07-03-2009, 08:41 AM
That is that settled then, no reason to argue anymore since our resident expert can predict exactly what would happen. How many games would we have won with Shanny and Cutler on the team in 2009? just so we have something to compare to.


I think he's right. Shanahan would've drafted defense, defense and more defense. With Slowik still on board I'm not sure how much good it would've done, but Maualuga probably would've been a given under Shanahan.

TonyR
07-03-2009, 08:49 AM
That is that settled then, no reason to argue anymore...

No, I'm merely speculating of course. Plenty of reason to argue. What fun would it be otherwise?

It's funny, many people here have already called McD's draft and FA a failure but this guy's going to call me out for speculating about who Shanny would have drafted?

Inkana7
07-03-2009, 08:51 AM
Rev, did you seriously justify Shanahan and criticize McDaniels based on who "Shanny would take"?

You've lost it, man.

elsid13
07-03-2009, 08:53 AM
I think he's right. Shanahan would've drafted defense, defense and more defense. With Slowik still on board I'm not sure how much good it would've done, but Maualuga probably would've been a given under Shanahan.

Actually Shanahan most likely would have looked for help on the line with Brian Orakpo or Ayers, since his LBs were set. Followed up with additional bodies at the S position. With latter picks on development type DT, RB and LB OC. We wouldn't have seen Smith drafted because the former staff believed in both William and Bell as solid young players.

People want to make believe that Shanahan and Goodman didn't understand the problem with the team, and they wouldn't have made attempt to fix it.

tsiguy96
07-03-2009, 09:12 AM
We are stating our opinions, just like what you do. The problem you have is that we don't agree with you.

did you even read my post?
like i said, criticizing is one thing, thats not what you guys are doing (rather, you are doing it, but criticizing about literally every single signing, coaching, or draft pick move that this team has made since january)

you guys are ****ing crying and bitching about why this team will be so horribly bad, even trying to convince the rest of us who like to have hope (and have good reason to, this team has done a lot of things right that you haters refuse to acknowledge). instead, you turn a blind eye to anything that can be conceived as good and instead spin it and blame it on mcdaniels and how bad hes gonna fail and why hes destroying teh franchise.

Tombstone RJ
07-03-2009, 09:16 AM
Considering he's kept Mark Bulger, I think he would've been fine keeping Cutler and probably Bates too.

Point being, this is pure speculation on your part.

My point is simple: when Shanny was fired, the house he built crumbled, and crumbled quickly. Who's to say that this same stuff would not be happening with another coach?

eddie mac
07-03-2009, 09:22 AM
This HAS been beaten to death, but I like you and like talking to you, so why not?

Per your post:

Maybe, maybe not and I think your post contradicts itself.

IF Shanahan ignored the RB position, as you say, then he would've used all the resources on defensive talent, as the offense was set outside of RB.

So, we would've had millions in FA to attack talented defensive players and considering the only one I like is Andra Davis, in my opinion, we would've ended up with better players. Maybe a Ray Lewis/Bart Scott, maybe a Jermaine Phillips in the secondary, maybe a Bryant McFadden on the outside and Dre Bly in the nickel (he cost money to cut, as you're well aware), maybe a Chris Canty on the line.

And then draft picks. Defensive help in the front seven at 12, or maybe a Peppers trade?

I'm not sure how any of that looks worse... especially considering we'd be returning the #2 offense in the NFL and Hillis probably would be starting at RB, and I don't think that's a bad thing whatsoever.

Rev, it wouldn't have mattered who was in charge, we'd still have ended up with a very average free agency class because Bowlen cut the budget. We contacted Haynesworth's agent within hrs of free agency starting and when we heard the price we ran for the hills and continued to do so throughout free agency. You say in other posts we overpaid for Goodman and Dawkins. Go find me other experienced free agents who went for similar or less in contract worth at their positions apart from injured/battered safeties like Brown and Jones who only got 1 year deals.

gyldenlove
07-03-2009, 09:24 AM
No, I'm merely speculating of course. Plenty of reason to argue. What fun would it be otherwise?

It's funny, many people here have already called McD's draft and FA a failure but this guy's going to call me out for speculating about who Shanny would have drafted?

Shanny would've drafted Maualuga

That just reeks of speculation.

Here is my speculation: Shanny would have improved the DL and not hurt the offense.

eddie mac
07-03-2009, 09:25 AM
By the way on Marshall.

I'm done with greedy ****ers like him. I couldn't give a flying **** whether or not this selfish **** ever pulls on a Broncos jersey again.

From now on I cheer on players who work their balls off every week for this team regardless of talent.

DenverBrit
07-03-2009, 09:28 AM
Always did? Really? Hilarious!

And, yes, I followed the drafted players closely, and I'm expressing my opinion on the drafted players as opposed to available players. This is the purpose of a message board. You should read up on it.

Ok, I'll bite.

Why do you think your draft evaluations are better than Nolan's or Nunnely when it comes to evaluating Defensive linemen?

Hamrob
07-03-2009, 09:28 AM
Regarding Cutler...history will tell the story. All of you folks who believe you have to hate Cutler to be a Broncos Fan...just because the Broncos organization made an all-time gaff...will see in the long run whose right and whose wrong.

Right now...the media is on the side of this being a stupid decision...once Cutler and the Bears win a few playoff games...it will be listed as one of the all-time idiotic moves ever.

So, keep bashing Jay and defending the decision all you want. I bet there's still a few folks in Baltimore who were glad the Colts traded Elway...that bum!

hambone13
07-03-2009, 09:28 AM
no, criticizing is one thing, but to call doom and gloom and whine constnatly about how bad the team will be when we dont know if they will be good given the number of question marks is entirely different. especially people who spend so many hours per day talking about how bad the team will be, why not try to have fun with it instead, its mind boggling.

If polishing a turd is your idea of improving your day and making it "fun", just for the sake of being positive, then you have some other stuff to work on.

2KBack
07-03-2009, 09:29 AM
By the way on Marshall.

I'm done with greedy ****ers like him. I couldn't give a flying **** whether or not this selfish **** ever pulls on a Broncos jersey again.

From now on I cheer on players who work their balls off every week for this team regardless of talent.

I second this. I defended the guy through all his problems, and then he pulls bull**** like this. He certainly out performed his contract, but he has underperformed at being a professional. If he knew how to act like a goddamn decent human being he would have had a contract already.

tsiguy96
07-03-2009, 09:32 AM
Regarding Cutler...history will tell the story. All of you folks who believe you have to hate Cutler to be a Broncos Fan...just because the Broncos organization made an all-time gaff...will see in the long run whose right and whose wrong.

Right now...the media is on the side of this being a stupid decision...once Cutler and the Bears win a few playoff games...it will be listed as one of the all-time idiotic moves ever.

So, keep bashing Jay and defending the decision all you want. I bet there's still a few folks in Baltimore who were glad the Colts traded Elway...that bum!

jay will be one of my least favorite players in the league for a long time. how do you root for someone who cried and bitched his way off your favorite team? are you kidding me?

elsid13
07-03-2009, 09:32 AM
By the way on Marshall.

I'm done with greedy ****ers like him. I couldn't give a flying **** whether or not this selfish **** ever pulls on a Broncos jersey again.

From now on I cheer on players who work their balls off every week for this team regardless of talent.

When has Marshall not shown that he doesn't work his ass off the team. It a business where players have limited lifespan to earn monies to keep their families comfortable for 40 years plus after they are done playing. Any players needs to make attempt to make those funds whenever they can.

2KBack
07-03-2009, 09:37 AM
When has Marshall not shown that he doesn't work his ass off the team. It a business where players have limited lifespan to earn monies to keep their families comfortable for 40 years plus after they are done playing. Any players needs to make attempt to make those funds whenever they can.

getting arrested time after time is far from working your ass off for the team. Playing in the NFL is similar to being a politician now, you can't do stpuid ****. Even worse is if you do stupid ****, get punished for it, keep doing stupid ****...and then ask for a pay raise.

TonyR
07-03-2009, 09:43 AM
That just reeks of speculation.

You're right, I should have put a word like "probably" or "possibly" in my comment. But it's common sense to know that I'm speculating. I have no way of knowing who would've been drafted.


Shanny would have improved the DL and not hurt the offense.

Yes, because Shanny had such a great track record in improving the DL. But I'll agree that perhaps he would have tried to do more to address it. Whether or not it would have worked is another thing altogether.

As for hurting the offense, I wouldn't be surprised if this year's offense is better than last year's although Brandon Marshall is a key factor in this. And I don't blame McD for BM.

TheReverend
07-03-2009, 10:18 AM
Ok, I'll bite.

Why do you think your draft evaluations are better than Nolan's or Nunnely when it comes to evaluating Defensive linemen?

You're quoting this post...

Always did? Really?

And, yes, I followed the drafted players closely, and I'm expressing my opinion on the drafted players as opposed to available players. This is the purpose of a message board. You should read up on it.

Firstly, never once did I say anything about my evaluations being better. What I did say is that these are MY opinions, and that's the purpose of a message board.

Secondly, McDaniels said Xanders put the entire draft together.

Thirdly, Marks was taken by Tennessee to replace Haynesworth and I'd say they know a thing or two about DL. Taylor was taken by Indy, and personally I think the best GM in the business.

So, not necessarily my opinion, but I think theirs is better.

TheReverend
07-03-2009, 10:20 AM
Rev, it wouldn't have mattered who was in charge, we'd still have ended up with a very average free agency class because Bowlen cut the budget. We contacted Haynesworth's agent within hrs of free agency starting and when we heard the price we ran for the hills and continued to do so throughout free agency. You say in other posts we overpaid for Goodman and Dawkins. Go find me other experienced free agents who went for similar or less in contract worth at their positions apart from injured/battered safeties like Brown and Jones who only got 1 year deals.

Oh, come on, Eddie. You're better than this to just read half posts.

I've already mentioned that addressing the secondary by signing Phillips from TB, McFadden to place outside, and keeping Bly as a nickel would be CHEAPER than we spent on Dawkins, Hill, Goodman, and cutting Bly... and not even cheaper by a little.

TheReverend
07-03-2009, 10:21 AM
Rev, did you seriously justify Shanahan and criticize McDaniels based on who "Shanny would take"?

You've lost it, man.

Nope. But I don't expect you to be able to wrap your head around simple concepts.

TheReverend
07-03-2009, 10:27 AM
Shanny would've drafted Maualuga who no other team thought was even worthy of a 1st round pick. Remember there were several people on this board (you know who you are) who advocated taking him with one of our first rounders. But, the more I think about it, Shanny taking Moreno wouldn't have shocked me all that much either. Even he had to finally see that plugging in scrubs at the RB position wasn't working any more.

That's also pure speculation but I can't say it's something I would've complained about one bit.

A player like that who can level blockers, place a good volume of intimidation in opposing ball carriers, and brings a contagious emotion to the defense

FYI, he's been doing great in mini camps, along with Smith, and Johnson. And this is even before pads come on when he can show off his real ability as a wrecking ball.

tsiguy96
07-03-2009, 10:29 AM
Oh, come on, Eddie. You're better than this to just read half posts.

I've already mentioned that addressing the secondary by signing Phillips from TB, McFadden to place outside, and keeping Bly as a nickel would be CHEAPER than we spent on Dawkins, Hill, Goodman, and cutting Bly... and not even cheaper by a little.

you should probably get a job as a GM, you are so good at assembling football teams.

hambone13
07-03-2009, 10:57 AM
you should probably get a job as a GM, you are so good at assembling football teams.

I guess that leaves the FO/McDaniels lead Ass Kissing position for you .....

Taco John
07-03-2009, 11:00 AM
you should probably get a job as a GM, you are so good at assembling football teams.


I should too.

DenverBrit
07-03-2009, 11:07 AM
You're quoting this post...



Firstly, never once did I say anything about my evaluations being better. What I did say is that these are MY opinions, and that's the purpose of a message board.

Secondly, McDaniels said Xanders put the entire draft together.

Thirdly, Marks was taken by Tennessee to replace Haynesworth and I'd say they know a thing or two about DL. Taylor was taken by Indy, and personally I think the best GM in the business.

So, not necessarily my opinion, but I think theirs is better.

Nolan and Nunnely would have had major input into the reconstruction of the D line.
There is no way that they were brought on board and told to sit back and relax, "we got it covered". Slowic, maybe, but not Nolan.

Anytime someone says "And, yes, I followed the drafted players closely" then disagrees with the picks, is indicating that they have a reason to think their opinions differ with the Broncos scouting and disagree with their choices.
I'm simply asking why you think your evaluations are better.
You do disagree with their draft picks, right, or am I misreading you?

DBroncos4life
07-03-2009, 11:36 AM
I second this. I defended the guy through all his problems, and then he pulls bull**** like this. He certainly out performed his contract, but he has underperformed at being a professional. If he knew how to act like a goddamn decent human being he would have had a contract already.

Professional? Can you name me another job where your done by the age of 24? The average life of a NFL player is 3 years man and then they got to find a new line of work.

DarkHorse30
07-03-2009, 12:28 PM
What I've done is display that on HIS terms, every resource WOULD HAVE gone to defensive help. Afterall, he stated we would've ignored the RB position.

Now, after that, I displayed the wealth of available talented players in the FA market AND through the draft.

The opportunity and picks were certainly available and on HIS TERMS, they would've gone to the defense.


Saying that the RB would have been "ignored" (although Hercules stated that Shanahan would have rolled with the RBs he had), doesn't mean that other areas on offense would have been ignored (TE, FB, OL depth). Maybe this would have been the year that Shanahan would have actually drafted a TE first, like the pundits have been predicting every year since Sharpe retired.

Hercules first post:

Originally Posted by Hercules Rockefeller
If you actually think that Shanahan was close to returning to winning in '09, you're not paying attention. Shanny in '09 meant the same abomination of a defensive coaching staff filled with the same players who are still on the FA market after 4 months of free agency. Yeah, this team was so close to returning to glory. He rolls with the same RBs too, the ones that are also still free agents. Shanahan in '09 is praying he can pull the defensive equivalents of Clady and Royal out of his ass on draft, something he's proven for years that he can't do (see the '08 Denver Broncos defense if you don't understand it).


Predicting that Shanahan would have used ALL of his front picks to get defense, is funny....because nobody ever knew who Shanahan was going to pick.

Hercules has the opinion that Shanahan has difficulty drafting defense. I would concur with that opinion

As far as picking up defensive talent by FA.....as I stated earlier, Shanahan had a piss poor record of picking up defense talent w/ FA. The only great talent he got (Champ) was by trading a franchise-type RB (Portis) for him.

On top of that, why would any FA want to come to a completely underperforming squad, led by a DC that has led his defense to the worst rating in the league? Somebody mentioned that those FAs weren't cheap. And you would be pinning all of your hopes on a few FAs.....and whoever Shanahan can draft? Wow, I've seen some Shanahomers before but this is a completely new level.

TonyR
07-03-2009, 12:32 PM
...why would any FA want to come to a completely underperforming squad, led by a DC that has led his defense to the worst rating in the league?

That is a very good observation. Great call. We definitely would have been handicapped by this.

eddie mac
07-03-2009, 01:14 PM
Oh, come on, Eddie. You're better than this to just read half posts.

I've already mentioned that addressing the secondary by signing Phillips from TB, McFadden to place outside, and keeping Bly as a nickel would be CHEAPER than we spent on Dawkins, Hill, Goodman, and cutting Bly... and not even cheaper by a little.

Sorry Rev but it's kinda hard to read through the volumes of **** on these forums these days to find the decent poster's info, but anyway.

McFadden got $5m a year and is coming off an injury is he not???, very similar to Goodman IMO, only Goodman was a starter last year, McFadden was a nickle.
Isn't Phillips being moved to WLB???, if that's the case how do the Bucs rate him as a S???, plus the fact he got a 1 year deal, doesn't bode too well for me.

I know roundabout what you're getting at but I didn't see any better value out there personally.

eddie mac
07-03-2009, 01:19 PM
When has Marshall not shown that he doesn't work his ass off the team. It a business where players have limited lifespan to earn monies to keep their families comfortable for 40 years plus after they are done playing. Any players needs to make attempt to make those funds whenever they can.

Elsid there's always a ways and means. This guy is another child who's took the hump with our organisation over money and will use any excuse to get what he wants, be it physical (blaming trainers for not picking up an injury) or the Front Office (for trading Cutler), when he was quoted straight after stating he was not bothered by the trade.

Casey Wiegmann, shut his gob, got on with his workouts and got what he wanted, why couldn't Marshall do that???

Because he's a big headed, self-centred punk, who's one more beatdown away from a multi-season ban.

**** him and gimme someone who wants to play for the BRONCOS.

Popps
07-03-2009, 01:32 PM
By the way on Marshall.

I'm done with greedy ****ers like him. I couldn't give a flying **** whether or not this selfish **** ever pulls on a Broncos jersey again.

From now on I cheer on players who work their balls off every week for this team regardless of talent.

Good to read you, Eddie!

TonyR
07-03-2009, 01:38 PM
McFadden got $5m a year and is coming off an injury is he not

Isn't Phillips being moved to WLB???, if that's the case how do the Bucs rate him as a S???, plus the fact he got a 1 year deal, doesn't bode too well for me.


McFadden missed 6 games last season. He's listed as Rodgers-Cromartie's backup.

Phillips missed 5 games including the last 2. He's listed as the starting SS on the current depth chart.

Punisher
07-03-2009, 01:41 PM
Go Orton!

Vegas_Bronco
07-03-2009, 01:41 PM
Where in the hell is Rod Smith?

bronclvr
07-03-2009, 01:42 PM
A little off-topic, but all day on Sirius NFL Radio they are talking about Chicago working on giving a new Contract to Cutler-the thought occurred to me that maybe that was an issue between Cutler/Mcdaniels/Bowlen?

I don't remember there being talk about a new Contract w/Cutler at the time(straighten me out-maybe there was?). Could it be that McDaniels/Bowlen said no to a Contract for Cutler and escalated the problem? I mean, we seem to be telling Marshall no (for various reasons possibly-Character/Injury/Money?), but could they have also told Bus Cook no?

TheReverend
07-03-2009, 04:18 PM
Not ignoring anyone. Just going swimming. Will enjoy replying to all posts later tonight. See ya.

tsiguy96
07-03-2009, 04:23 PM
A little off-topic, but all day on Sirius NFL Radio they are talking about Chicago working on giving a new Contract to Cutler-the thought occurred to me that maybe that was an issue between Cutler/Mcdaniels/Bowlen?

I don't remember there being talk about a new Contract w/Cutler at the time(straighten me out-maybe there was?). Could it be that McDaniels/Bowlen said no to a Contract for Cutler and escalated the problem? I mean, we seem to be telling Marshall no (for various reasons possibly-Character/Injury/Money?), but could they have also told Bus Cook no?

at one point during the fiasco, cutler basically asked for a long term extension by asking for a "commitment" by the team. something to that affect, but an extension (i.e huge pay raise) would have left cutler in denver without his crying.

OrangeRising
07-03-2009, 07:41 PM
BS. Information now available indicates Cutler wanted precisely what he asked for; committment, something McDaniels wasn't willing to give until the whole affair had nearly been decided.

Bowlen, nor Xanders, nor Mcdaniels nor Joe Ellis, nor Bus Cook, nor Cutler ever has said the dispute was about a new contract. Never. Never once.

i wish people would stop spouting this garbage as some kind of justification for showing the door to one of the best QB's in the NFL.

Good heavens.

tsiguy96
07-03-2009, 07:54 PM
BS. Information now available indicates Cutler wanted precisely what he asked for; committment, something McDaniels wasn't willing to give until the whole affair had nearly been decided.

Bowlen, nor Xanders, nor Mcdaniels nor Joe Ellis, nor Bus Cook, nor Cutler ever has said the dispute was about a new contract. Never. Never once.

i wish people would stop spouting this garbage as some kind of justification for showing the door to one of the best QB's in the NFL.

Good heavens.

bowlen made the trade happen because he had never been as insulted as he was by the way cutler treated him. you dont under any circumstances refuse to talk to anyone on the team because your feelings got hurt, you take it like a man like everyone else who has been talked about in trade talks. locking yourself up in a corner is NOT the way to handle this situation, and the broncos had no other choice, as evidenced by cutler "high fiving" other players at vanderbilt once he found he was traded. now hes going to chicago.

OrangeRising
07-03-2009, 07:57 PM
What, pray tell, does that have to do with a new contract?

TheDave
07-03-2009, 08:13 PM
bowlen made the trade happen because he had never been as insulted as he was by the way cutler treated him. you dont under any circumstances refuse to talk to anyone on the team because your feelings got hurt, you take it like a man like everyone else who has been talked about in trade talks. locking yourself up in a corner is NOT the way to handle this situation, and the broncos had no other choice, as evidenced by cutler "high fiving" other players at vanderbilt once he found he was traded. now hes going to chicago.

I don't like how cutler handled the situation but the Broncos had other choices... Similiar to what they are doing with Marshall. Tell him that they look forward to seeing him at camp.

You don't under any circumstances trade talent of his level (cutler or marshall). Especially for draft choices.

TheReverend
07-03-2009, 08:16 PM
Nolan and Nunnely would have had major input into the reconstruction of the D line.
There is no way that they were brought on board and told to sit back and relax, "we got it covered". Slowic, maybe, but not Nolan.

Anytime someone says "And, yes, I followed the drafted players closely" then disagrees with the picks, is indicating that they have a reason to think their opinions differ with the Broncos scouting and disagree with their choices.
I'm simply asking why you think your evaluations are better.
You do disagree with their draft picks, right, or am I misreading you?

You are misreading me.

Herc set the premise, not me. My responses were then in line with HIS premise, and have been repeatedly taken out of context since then.

For the record:
I do dislike the Quinn and Bruton picks. I also think we could've gotten some highly talented DL help by taking Marks, Taylor or, better yet, both.

TheReverend
07-03-2009, 08:22 PM
Sorry Rev but it's kinda hard to read through the volumes of **** on these forums these days to find the decent poster's info, but anyway.

McFadden got $5m a year and is coming off an injury is he not???, very similar to Goodman IMO, only Goodman was a starter last year, McFadden was a nickle.
Isn't Phillips being moved to WLB???, if that's the case how do the Bucs rate him as a S???, plus the fact he got a 1 year deal, doesn't bode too well for me.

I know roundabout what you're getting at but I didn't see any better value out there personally.

Yes, Goodman was a starter and McFadden was a nickel and coming off injury. McFadden also has a good volume of starting experience opposite Ike Taylor through his career. 08 was Goodmans first DECENT season, and he's largely been laughable. Maybe Goodman's finally got it all together, but how many CBs do you know that are on the UPSWING of their career after 30?

I'll wait as you compile that list.

Also, no idea where you got that info on Phillips, but if you have a source, please send it this way, I'd be really excited to read about it.

Phillips has been THE man in TB's secondary since Lynch left and Ronde's aged. He's a good hitter, good speed and range, can make plays on the ball, and, to be blunt, if you're smart enough to play a Cover 2 S under Monte Kiffin, you're smart enough to play S anywhere. And he's young. Dawkins is 35, 5 mill a year, and only playing 30+% of the snaps.

TheReverend
07-03-2009, 08:24 PM
Also Eddie, the 1 year contract is due to the arm injury he suffered last season.

eddie mac
07-04-2009, 03:48 AM
Yes, Goodman was a starter and McFadden was a nickel and coming off injury. McFadden also has a good volume of starting experience opposite Ike Taylor through his career. 08 was Goodmans first DECENT season, and he's largely been laughable. Maybe Goodman's finally got it all together, but how many CBs do you know that are on the UPSWING of their career after 30?

I'll wait as you compile that list.

Also, no idea where you got that info on Phillips, but if you have a source, please send it this way, I'd be really excited to read about it.
Phillips has been THE man in TB's secondary since Lynch left and Ronde's aged. He's a good hitter, good speed and range, can make plays on the ball, and, to be blunt, if you're smart enough to play a Cover 2 S under Monte Kiffin, you're smart enough to play S anywhere. And he's young. Dawkins is 35, 5 mill a year, and only playing 30+% of the snaps.

Jermaine Phillips says he still has a "long, long way to go" in his transition from strong safety to weakside linebacker.

If the transition takes, Sabby Piscitelli will move into the starting lineup at strong safety. There remains a decent chance that the Bucs will ditch the experiment and send Phillips back to his natural position.

Source: Tampa Tribune

I've no idea whether the experiment worked or not. That was from late May.

As for Goodman, I look at it this way. He had his best NFL season ever last year. He dominated Brandon Marshall when he played at Invesco plus the fact McDaniels should know him inside out gameplanning against him twice per season in NE.

I also think it's been a lot easier to play DB in Pittsburgh recently than it has been in Miami given the difference between both front 7's. I'm no NFL analyst or scout so I dont know who's the better CB, what I do think is that Goodman cannot be any worse than Bly so in reality it's an improvement.

As for Dawkins I think he was signed as much for his defensive leadership demeanor as his playing ability.

The Broncos were lost on defense last year especially when they lost Champ and DJ to injuries and let Lynch go. Those youngsters were all over the place.

The other factor you have to consider was the market. Hayden and Gamble set it with the huge deals they got prior to UFA starting. Then players like Foxworth and Bartell got huge deals given their starting experience. I think McDaniels went for the safe option in DB's.

elsid13
07-04-2009, 04:08 AM
Philips is still slotted to play WLB but that doesn't mean there weren't other younger safety choices out there. As for Goodman, everyone mention a game against Marshall as showing how good he was, but was he the corner that got beat on the crappy offensive pass interface call? If that call was made wouldn't Marshall had a 80 yard plus gain and the winning TD?

TailgateNut
07-04-2009, 06:18 AM
So, keep bashing Jay and defending the decision all you want. I bet there's still a few folks in Baltimore who were glad the Colts traded Elway...that bum!

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! :spit:

TailgateNut
07-04-2009, 06:31 AM
He does play very hard. You can say what you want about the other things, but when he is on the field he is all business.

Not saying he doesn't, he just needs to incorporate all three at the same time.

Cito Pelon
07-04-2009, 09:38 AM
Professional? Can you name me another job where your done by the age of 24? The average life of a NFL player is 3 years man and then they got to find a new line of work.

Marshall is already a multi-millionaire.

2KBack
07-04-2009, 10:17 AM
Professional? Can you name me another job where your done by the age of 24? The average life of a NFL player is 3 years man and then they got to find a new line of work.

what the hell does career length have to do with being a quality human being and carrying yourself like a professional? Short careers mean you don't have to act like an adult? was that his defense to cops,"I'm sorry you have to arrest me so much, you see, I might have a short career. So I'm alowed to drink and drive and beat women."

TheReverend
07-04-2009, 10:45 AM
Philips is still slotted to play WLB but that doesn't mean there weren't other younger safety choices out there. As for Goodman, everyone mention a game against Marshall as showing how good he was, but was he the corner that got beat on the crappy offensive pass interface call? If that call was made wouldn't Marshall had a 80 yard plus gain and the winning TD?

That was Jason Allen who played corner most of last of season. They RARELY had Goodman 1 v 1 against Brandon, and when they did, they had a S over the top.

Jermaine Phillips says he still has a "long, long way to go" in his transition from strong safety to weakside linebacker.

If the transition takes, Sabby Piscitelli will move into the starting lineup at strong safety. There remains a decent chance that the Bucs will ditch the experiment and send Phillips back to his natural position.

Source: Tampa Tribune

I've no idea whether the experiment worked or not. That was from late May.

As for Goodman, I look at it this way. He had his best NFL season ever last year. He dominated Brandon Marshall when he played at Invesco plus the fact McDaniels should know him inside out gameplanning against him twice per season in NE.

I also think it's been a lot easier to play DB in Pittsburgh recently than it has been in Miami given the difference between both front 7's. I'm no NFL analyst or scout so I dont know who's the better CB, what I do think is that Goodman cannot be any worse than Bly so in reality it's an improvement.

As for Dawkins I think he was signed as much for his defensive leadership demeanor as his playing ability.

The Broncos were lost on defense last year especially when they lost Champ and DJ to injuries and let Lynch go. Those youngsters were all over the place.

The other factor you have to consider was the market. Hayden and Gamble set it with the huge deals they got prior to UFA starting. Then players like Foxworth and Bartell got huge deals given their starting experience. I think McDaniels went for the safe option in DB's.

Thanks for the article. That's exciting, imo.

And Goodman did not dominate Brandon Marshall.

Here's what a Fins fan that stopped by before the game had to say about him:

Ways to attack Miami.
-Take your deep shots. Especially at Goodman. He's quite good at letting WR's get by him. As a whole Miami gives up a lot of 20+ plays and the Secondary has stone cold hands when it comes to INT's.


http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2144656&postcount=51

Naturally, you never know how much a fan knows, but click the link and read the post. He seems pretty knowledgable and he's watched a lot more of Miami than any of us.

Yes, he may be better than Bly, but is he better than:
McFadden, Bly in the nickel (not to mention in that scenario, we keep our 2010 first..............)

I'll agree. I think Dawkins was signed 98% for leadership, discipline and accountability. But how much can you bring for 15 plays a game? He's had an awesome CAREER, and guys will listen, but they bleed for guys that are out there with them every snap, getting them off the field on third down, making the unit look good and better.

TheReverend
07-04-2009, 10:57 AM
FYI, the PI AGAINST Marshall in the endzone that gave us the ball on the 1 for the score was none other than our own Renaldo Hill!

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

rugbythug
07-04-2009, 11:01 AM
FYI, the PI AGAINST Marshall in the endzone that gave us the ball on the 1 for the score was none other than our own Renaldo Hill!

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

It was also a Bogus Call. But I was not complaining.

DenverBrit
07-04-2009, 04:14 PM
You are misreading me.

Herc set the premise, not me. My responses were then in line with HIS premise, and have been repeatedly taken out of context since then.

For the record:
I do dislike the Quinn and Bruton picks. I also think we could've gotten some highly talented DL help by taking Marks, Taylor or, better yet, both.


It's all very subjective and we really won't know how good the draft is for at least a year....or more.

tsiguy96
07-04-2009, 05:03 PM
I don't like how cutler handled the situation but the Broncos had other choices... Similiar to what they are doing with Marshall. Tell him that they look forward to seeing him at camp.

You don't under any circumstances trade talent of his level (cutler or marshall). Especially for draft choices.

i agree completely, however if you owned the team and your "star" player just completely publicly disrespected you, moreso than youve ever felt on the football field, you may feel differently about the situation, as im sure i would. bowlen took it personal, which he had good reason to do because cutler made it personal.

TheDave
07-04-2009, 05:14 PM
i agree completely, however if you owned the team and your "star" player just completely publicly disrespected you, moreso than youve ever felt on the football field, you may feel differently about the situation, as im sure i would. bowlen took it personal, which he had good reason to do because cutler made it personal.

NEVER take anything that happens in business personal... Bowlen is old enough to know better.

Look I'm in on the joke that it now longer matters... I just can't help but think we are going to be the butt of jokes for a long time. I sincerly hope I am wrong.