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Bronco Rob
07-01-2009, 03:29 PM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- The NFL's most heralded players are ones capable of making an impact with or without the ball.

Broncos rookie Richard Quinn is on course to join that club.

In college, the 6-foot-4 tight end established himself as a standout blocker. Head Coach Josh McDaniels saw something else when selecting him in the 2009 NFL Draft: soft hands.

"He didn't catch a lot of balls at (the University of) North Carolina, but that wasn't because he can't catch," McDaniels said. "They didn't use him that way very much in their system, in their scheme, but he showed very good hands during the course of the spring."

Along with those strong hands comes a strong head on his shoulders. The 22-year-old has made use of his first two months with the Broncos, soaking in as much knowledge as possible to prepare for his first pro season.

"I always try to pay attention to what the veteran guys are doing first so when it's time for me to go up, I know exactly what to do," Quinn said.

That shadowing process has been aided by the presence of established tight ends on the Broncos' roster. When searching for veteran advice, Quinn has three proven sources in Daniel Graham, Jeb Putzier and Tony Scheffler, who sport a combined 16 years of NFL experience.

To top it off, Graham has previous experience in McDaniels' system, which makes use of the multi-faceted skill set that the position requires.

"It's difficult for a tight end in this offense," Graham said. "We have to know so much, just like everybody else. But tight ends, we do so much -- in the blocking game, in the passing game -- so we have to know a lot. It's tough if you don't understand it."

Quinn has yet to experience that problem to date. Under the tutelage of Graham, he has pinpointed the intangibles that define strong pro tight ends -- knowing what to do at the line of scrimmage, being fast off the ball and measuring the right depth on passing routes.

Beyond fostering an early recognition of those skills, Graham has helped Quinn brew an equally important trait: confidence.

"It makes me feel very comfortable," Quinn said of Graham's help. "Going out on the field and when it comes for me to run a play, I'm feeling pretty confident. That's been a big help -- just having him give me those little words of advice and stuff like that to execute a play -- and things to work on."

While Quinn has confidence in his own skills, McDaniels has confidence in the rookie's role for the upcoming season. The coach believes he adds a new thread to an already diverse corps.

"He can catch the ball, he's got soft hands, we can move him, and he certainly can handle his own on the line as a blocker," McDaniels said. "But when you're going to use two and three tight end packages during the course of the season, you'd love to have three guys that you feel good about. To have three guys that can run block, pass block, catch passes in the passing game and make an impact at more than one thing, I think that's very valuable to us."

As for Quinn, he's nothing but ready for the start of camp -- the day when he can display the value of taking those extra steps.

"I feel like I'm getting there," he said. "I'm feeling pretty confident right now and I just want to keep that to help me transition into the phase of training camp."


http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=9132




;)

Beantown Bronco
07-01-2009, 03:33 PM
Weird. I was going to start a thread for this article as well. I wanted to call it "He Can't Catch". I guess if someone was using the search function, yours would be better. Oh well.

TheReverend
07-01-2009, 04:45 PM
2nd worst pick of the weekend.

wolf754life
07-01-2009, 05:01 PM
right, you will be saying that rev when we go jumbo on the goal line and start stuffing td's down peoples throats, or play action.

a pick like this will pay in spades every time we get down inside the 10....

flame away fanboy!

TheReverend
07-01-2009, 05:05 PM
right, you will be saying that rev when we go jumbo on the goal line and start stuffing td's down peoples throats, or play action.

a pick like this will pay in spades every time we get down inside the 10....

flame away fanboy!

I'd rather create match-up problems and have the defense defend every blade of redzone grass than "go jumbo", but okay.

Would've hated the pick even if it HADN'T necessitated a trade.

BUT at least he's not Bruton.

Doggcow
07-01-2009, 05:09 PM
Our redzone efficiency will be higher this year due to Quinn, at least 5 points. But you can bitch and moan all you want and make excuses for why he isn't an impact on our O.

TheReverend
07-01-2009, 05:12 PM
Our redzone efficiency will be higher this year due to Quinn, at least 5 points. But you can b**** and moan all you want and make excuses for why he isn't an impact on our O.

Honestly, you do know you're one of the top 5 dumbest people on the board, right?

BMarsh615
07-01-2009, 05:12 PM
McDraftbusts strikes again!

OBF1
07-01-2009, 05:15 PM
Honestly, you do know you're one of the top 5 dumbest people on the board, right?

Who pissed in your corn flakes this morning???

TheReverend
07-01-2009, 05:17 PM
Who pissed in your corn flakes this morning???

Some asshole named Dimitri. And when I find him...............

worm
07-01-2009, 05:22 PM
Yaaay! For our traded up, 2nd round, back-up TE!

Doggcow
07-01-2009, 05:23 PM
Honestly, you do know you're one of the top 5 dumbest people on the board, right?

Because I don't just run around insulting people? :thumbsup:

24champ
07-01-2009, 05:31 PM
http://lancasterpost.com/PuffPiece.jpg

TheReverend
07-01-2009, 05:31 PM
Because I don't just run around insulting people? :thumbsup:

You insult yourself and your heritage everytime you touch a keyboard.

24champ
07-01-2009, 05:31 PM
What's next? Stories about lineman using the sled, and how they are going to let the DL loose?

NYBronco
07-01-2009, 05:33 PM
I look for a much improved red zone scoring offense and Quinn's versatility to block and catch will be an asset. Not to mention a less predictable and more aggressive team offense with fewer red zone turnovers.

TheReverend
07-01-2009, 05:33 PM
What's next? Stories about third string lineman using the sled, and how they are going to let the third string DL loose?

Fixed

Kaylore
07-01-2009, 05:36 PM
I think Quinn will be a good player for us. I think this Bronco team is going to be more powerful and tough than the finesse garbage we've been rolling out there the past several years.

Doggcow
07-01-2009, 05:38 PM
I think Quinn will be a good player for us. I think this Bronco team is going to be more powerful and tough than the finesse garbage we've been rolling out there the past several years.

Definitely. I would love to build based off the Steelers and Giants mold.

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 05:40 PM
If our track record on predictions hold true on the board Smith and Quinn will be the 2 best picks lOL!!!

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 05:42 PM
I think Quinn will be a good player for us. I think this Bronco team is going to be more powerful and tough than the finesse garbage we've been rolling out there the past several years.

Yeah we may not be a ton more talented on defense this yr but at least we are a little bigger.

Not to mention Hillis, Quinn, Graham are a pretty fearsome 3 headed blocking monster. All big and strong with 2 being lil pups with lots of bashing still in there system.

I think Quinn and Hillis blocking could open it up for Graham to punish people in the passing game a bit more by catching more balls.

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 05:43 PM
If Broncos can go big, sit Scheff sometimes, play Quinn and Graham, that could pose problems for small linebackers.

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 05:46 PM
If Broncos have 2 huge TE, and a fast shifty one, that could pose nightmare matchup problems not knowing what broncos will gameplan.

There is a huge difference in what it takes to guard Graham, over Sheff.

Graham can maul a smaller guy, sheff can outrun a bigger guy. So you need 2 defenders to think TE if they are both on the field.

Football is alot about just trying to find stuff that makes players do what they don't like. IE make a burner go inside, make a big guy try to turn the corner, make a CB tackle a bigger player, make a big safety try and run with a fast wr and so on and so on.

I really do feel Mcdaniels will be like shanny in that regard and that is why we picked him. You think Spags would be able to do that stuff as well? I don't agree.

Doggcow
07-01-2009, 05:46 PM
You insult yourself and your heritage everytime you touch a keyboard.

Waaah waah waaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Why are you such a little crybaby bitch? Seriously, grow a pair and stop crying about every god damn thing that happens this offseason, you sound like a chargers fan with all your bitching and moaning.

TheReverend
07-01-2009, 05:48 PM
Waaah waah waaah waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah. Why are you such a little crybaby b****? Seriously, grow a pair and stop crying about every god damn thing that happens this offseason, you sound like a chargers fan with all your b****ing and moaning.

Hilarious!

Do you realize I don't even have to waste a heartbeat of energy coming up with a clever reply when you exemplify stupidity so well on your own? Please keep it coming. You're making my day.

Northman
07-01-2009, 05:57 PM
I dont hate Quinn but i would of preferred Nelson. I just dont like where we took him when he could of been had much later.

watermock
07-01-2009, 06:08 PM
Quinn didn't know if he'd even be drafted.

DBroncos4life
07-01-2009, 07:22 PM
This pick was terrible. The rest of the draft I can live with but this pick sucked. Its like when KC drafted Kris Wilson.

yerner
07-01-2009, 07:34 PM
To be fair, its not often you can find your third tight end in the second round.

Popps
07-01-2009, 07:37 PM
If he's the best blocking TE in the draft, and has better hands than the "experts" on this board claim to know, than this will be a great pick.

Graham is primarily a highly paid TE because of his blocking. So, there's a clear precedent for putting a premium on this particular skill-set.



McDaniels had him targeted, and it makes sense. Again, go back and read the article I posted about how NE used 2-3 TE sets at strategic times to run the ball down teams throat. They won a championship game using that strategy.

Again, if he pans out to his billing... great pick. People here are funny. First off, no one here could draft their way out of a paper bag. NFL teams can barely do it, so it's safe to assume that none of you jagovs can.

Secondly, people here bitch and moan when we can't run the ball, or when we can't play special teams, and then they bitch and moan when we select players that will help in those areas.

As I've said, this guy amounted to a high 3rd round pick, and people want to make another "_______-gate" out of it.

Likely the same people sore-assed about letting go the coach that drafted guys like Clarett in the 3rd round.

Tombstone RJ
07-01-2009, 07:39 PM
Definitely. I would love to build based off the Steelers and Giants mold.

Those offenses are based on a power running game. McD's offense is called a Spread Offense which is a very different animal.

ZONA
07-01-2009, 07:41 PM
Rev, you got some nerve dude. Absolutely NO pick that hasn't had a chance to show what he can do at the NFL level deserves to be called garbage, or good for that matter. Fact is, many picks that fans hate turn out to be great players and many picks that fans love flop. Until we see on the field in real game situations what this kid can do, calling him good or calling him bad shows just how ignorant you are. But hey, I'm sure you were loving the Terrell Davis pick in the 7th round all those years ago huh? BS, you didn't even know who he was, just like the rest of us. You don't know Quinn at all, so let the man have his shot and let's see what he can do. Stop your stupid bashing on these guys until they have a chance to show what they can do.

ZONA
07-01-2009, 07:45 PM
Likely the same people sore-assed about letting go the coach that drafted guys like Clarett in the 3rd round.

Don't forget Foster and Moss in the 1st. ROFL!

footstepsfrom#27
07-01-2009, 07:54 PM
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- The NFL's most heralded players are ones capable of making an impact with or without the ball.

Broncos rookie Richard Quinn is on course to join that club.
What's he say after this?

Br0nc0Buster
07-01-2009, 08:18 PM
Those offenses are based on a power running game. McD's offense is called a Spread Offense which is a very different animal.

not necessarily
its been called the "Amoeba" offense before, because of its ability to change and adapt week to week.

If McD feels power running will pay off against certain teams, he will have no problem what so ever going with that

TheReverend
07-01-2009, 08:31 PM
Rev, you got some nerve dude. Absolutely NO pick that hasn't had a chance to show what he can do at the NFL level deserves to be called garbage, or good for that matter. Fact is, many picks that fans hate turn out to be great players and many picks that fans love flop. Until we see on the field in real game situations what this kid can do, calling him good or calling him bad shows just how ignorant you are. But hey, I'm sure you were loving the Terrell Davis pick in the 7th round all those years ago huh? BS, you didn't even know who he was, just like the rest of us. You don't know Quinn at all, so let the man have his shot and let's see what he can do. Stop your stupid bashing on these guys until they have a chance to show what they can do.

Nice rant. :spit:

Let me know when he shows how "great he is".

maher_tyler
07-01-2009, 09:07 PM
I think Quinn will be a good player for us. I think this Bronco team is going to be more powerful and tough than the finesse garbage we've been rolling out there the past several years.

That is pretty clear to me!

Doggcow
07-01-2009, 09:22 PM
not necessarily
its been called the "Amoeba" offense before, because of its ability to change and adapt week to week.

If McD feels power running will pay off against certain teams, he will have no problem what so ever going with that

Running will also pay off in the 4th quarter big time. Along with keeping our D off the field for a lot of the whole game.

strafen
07-01-2009, 09:54 PM
For those doubting if Quinn can catch the football...
Check his combine-workout video
Really impressive. The guy is a beast!

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d80f2e13a/2009-Combine-workout-Richard-Quinn

Doggcow
07-01-2009, 09:57 PM
Those offenses are based on a power running game. McD's offense is called a Spread Offense which is a very different animal.

I meant in the sense of them being power teams based on physicality. Not just their offensive style, the whole team is built to overpower and out muscle the other team

mhgaffney
07-01-2009, 10:12 PM
I'm no expert -- and willing to concede that the TE spot will be crucial to a successful Denver's offense.

But why did we need Quinn -- if we already had Graham?

Popps
07-01-2009, 10:21 PM
I'm no expert -- and willing to concede that the TE spot will be crucial to a successful Denver's offense.

But why did we need Quinn -- if we already had Graham?

A few possible reasons...

Sheffler is primarily a receiving back, and McDaniels is going to want to run 2 or 3 TE sets. That usually involves a couple of guys that can block, as it's often a smashmouth formation.

The other is that Graham is very expensive and if extending him doesn't go well, we don't want to be without a guy who can step in and be an every-down blocking TE.

Also, it just seems that McDaniels sees more than just a blocker in this kid, despite that being his rep. He continually talks about his hands, and I recall reading that he had a good combine (I believe it was) catching the ball.

outdoor_miner
07-01-2009, 10:22 PM
Nice rant. :spit:

Let me know when he shows how "great he is".

http://www.2upbeatmag.com/SOME-CYNICAL-GUY/some-cynical-guy-heading.jpg

SoCalBronco
07-01-2009, 10:24 PM
Graham is primarily a highly paid TE because of his blocking. So, there's a clear precedent for putting a premium on this particular skill-set.


.

In the abstract, yes, there would be a good argument that a premium should be put on excellent blocking (esp if the system values that more than the receiving TE). But not when we already have that skill set. It's unnecessary duplication and inefficient allocation of resources at an extremely high price
(2nd rounder).

ZONA
07-01-2009, 10:46 PM
In the abstract, yes, there would be a good argument that a premium should be put on excellent blocking (esp if the system values that more than the receiving TE). But not when we already have that skill set. It's unnecessary duplication and inefficient allocation of resources at an extremely high price
(2nd rounder).

I don't agree and there are alot of coaches who would not agree. You can't under estimate the value of great blocking. I don't care how dangerous your offensive weapons are, if you can't block, you will suck. It's probably gonna pay off for us to have 2 great blocking TE's who both can catch well also, but are not your smaller faster sorta get pushed around pass catching TE's like Schef. And what if Schef or Daniel get hurt, you have to have a backup plan. So who should we have taken in the 2nd? Some other guy who might bust? It could have been a case where our Mgmt had this guy as the best available at that spot and said we need to take him. They probably had him as the 2nd best TE on their board, if not the best and saw he was still there, and BAM.

meangene
07-02-2009, 04:20 AM
One of the things in this system is that backups are going to be expected to step in and perform just like the guy ahead of them in the event of injury - quality depth. Graham is no kid and Scheffler is not a blocker. So, not only is Quinn a third tight end, he is really Graham's backup and eventual replacement. Same with Alphonso Smith behind Goodman at corner. These two guys were the most bitched about picks on this board and both are going to make alot of people eat crow.

alkemical
07-02-2009, 06:22 AM
not necessarily
its been called the "Amoeba" offense before, because of its ability to change and adapt week to week.

If McD feels power running will pay off against certain teams, he will have no problem what so ever going with that

This is how i see it as well. Same with the D. IMO, i think the D is further away from this yet. But look at some of the guys that are already versatile on D: DJ Williams, the entire secondary, and i think we have good role players for other roles depending on down/distance or the team: Elvis, Thomas, our backup LB's.

You can see that this team is going to be about versatility and IQ. I like the direction, i'm cautious yet (because of trading cutler).

Beantown Bronco
07-02-2009, 07:32 AM
One of the things in this system is that backups are going to be expected to step in and perform just like the guy ahead of them in the event of injury - quality depth. Graham is no kid and Scheffler is not a blocker. So, not only is Quinn a third tight end, he is really Graham's backup and eventual replacement. Same with Alphonso Smith behind Goodman at corner. These two guys were the most b****ed about picks on this board and both are going to make alot of people eat crow.

While I, and I'm sure everyone else here, can understand and support this in some instances; what we have a problem with in this instance is the active decisions to trade up and make these "depth" signings when there are glaring issues with quite a few "starter" positions. While it's all well and good to have 3 supposed "quality" TEs, wouldn't it be nice to have even one "quality" DT or DE? Teams that have pretty much every starter returning have the luxury of "depth" signings. Teams like the Broncos who are planning on starting a handful of guys on defense that couldn't earn playing time over the guys that were just cut (and are still unemployed cause they sucked so bad), however, can't afford such "depth" signings.....especially through ridiculous trade-ups.

While it's certainly a possibility that Quinn will turn out to be a good player, it's more than just a possibility that they could've had him much later in the draft. It's a fact that some teams and scouts had him ranked as low as the 6th round.

meangene
07-02-2009, 07:52 AM
While I, and I'm sure everyone else here, can understand and support this in some instances; what we have a problem with in this instance is the active decisions to trade up and make these "depth" signings when there are glaring issues with quite a few "starter" positions. While it's all well and good to have 3 supposed "quality" TEs, wouldn't it be nice to have even one "quality" DT or DE? Teams that have pretty much every starter returning have the luxury of "depth" signings. Teams like the Broncos who are planning on starting a handful of guys on defense that couldn't earn playing time over the guys that were just cut (and are still unemployed cause they sucked so bad), however, can't afford such "depth" signings.....especially through ridiculous trade-ups.

While it's certainly a possibility that Quinn will turn out to be a good player, it's more than just a possibility that they could've had him much later in the draft. It's a fact that some teams and scouts had him ranked as low as the 6th round.

Here's the thing - we had these guys rated highly on our board and the clear strategy was to draft the BPA regardless of position. Part of why we had so few players on our board is because this team is looking for particular types of players with particular skill sets that fit the system. Had there been players rated higher on our board at positions of greater need, I'm sure we would have taken them. As to where they were picked, who really knows what other teams were going to do? I saw several reports before the draft that Quinn was moving rapidly up the draft boards of a number of teams based on stellar workouts. A number of teams loved Smith but were scared off by his being 5'9". If a guy turns out to be a good solid player for us then he is a good pick. Reaching for a player at a position of need is not a good draft strategy as our recent DL picks demonstrate. I'd rather draft a guy we are really high on who is likely to make the team and be a major contributor for years to come than reach for a need position. You may not agree with our draft board but the strategy is hard to argue with. We will see in a few years what kind of job we did in evaluating the talent.

Beantown Bronco
07-02-2009, 08:40 AM
Here's the thing - we had these guys rated highly on our board and the clear strategy was to draft the BPA regardless of position. Part of why we had so few players on our board is because this team is looking for particular types of players with particular skill sets that fit the system. Had there been players rated higher on our board at positions of greater need, I'm sure we would have taken them.

Nobody is disagreeing here, because it's pretty obvious that this is the thought process they went through. The only problem people have with this is the way they graded the players. In several instances, they seemed to grade guys higher than other teams, that's all.

As to where they were picked, who really knows what other teams were going to do? I saw several reports before the draft that Quinn was moving rapidly up the draft boards of a number of teams based on stellar workouts. A number of teams loved Smith but were scared off by his being 5'9". If a guy turns out to be a good solid player for us then he is a good pick.

Obviously, we'll never know what teams were really going to do, but we do know for a fact that before those workouts, Quinn was a 5th or 6th rounder. Could great workouts move him up a round or two? Sure. Could they move him up to the 2nd? I'm skeptical. But if the Broncos let his workouts affect his draft positioning that much, that has me worried. I don't want this to become a team that values the "Mike Mamula factor" more than what they see on the field.

Reaching for a player at a position of need is not a good draft strategy as our recent DL picks demonstrate.

Let's not confuse a standard bust pick with a "reach" pick. Moss was not a "reach" pick. Everyone and their mother had him going in the first round. Not only that, they had him going to us. That was a textbook, easy to call pick. It was not a reach. Crowder? Pretty much the same thing. He was projected to go in the 2nd by most experts. Again, not a reach. Did it work out? Doesn't look like it. But that doesn't mean it was a reach.

I'd rather draft a guy we are really high on who is likely to make the team and be a major contributor for years to come than reach for a need position.

I don't think anyone would dispute this.

You may not agree with our draft board

Bingo. Here we have it.

Tombstone RJ
07-02-2009, 09:11 AM
not necessarily
its been called the "Amoeba" offense before, because of its ability to change and adapt week to week.

If McD feels power running will pay off against certain teams, he will have no problem what so ever going with that

We will have to wait and see. I know McD will game plan around an opposing teams strength's and weaknesses, all coaches do this. However, the power running game offense and the spread offense are based on different fundamentals.

meangene
07-02-2009, 09:12 AM
Obviously, we'll never know what teams were really going to do, but we do know for a fact that before those workouts, Quinn was a 5th or 6th rounder. Could great workouts move him up a round or two? Sure. Could they move him up to the 2nd? I'm skeptical. But if the Broncos let his workouts affect his draft positioning that much, that has me worried. I don't want this to become a team that values the "Mike Mamula factor" more than what they see on the field.

I don't see Quinn as a workout warrior. He was asked to be a blocker at UNC because they had three NFL quality receivers and he did a standout job at that. Even his coaches said he was underutilized as a receiver. His workouts confirmed this. We were not the only team to realize this in the workouts and it seems his performance and attitude are justifying the pick thus far.



Let's not confuse a standard bust pick with a "reach" pick. Moss was not a "reach" pick. Everyone and their mother had him going in the first round. Not only that, they had him going to us. That was a textbook, easy to call pick. It was not a reach. Crowder? Pretty much the same thing. He was projected to go in the 2nd by most experts. Again, not a reach. Did it work out? Doesn't look like it. But that doesn't mean it was a reach.

Maybe they weren't reaches based on where some teams had Moss and Crowder rated, but Moss is a bust. Crowder, hopefully, will pan out as an OLB. My point is that, where we had the DL available to us in this draft, they would have been reaches based on our board.


Bingo. Here we have it.

That seems to be the crux of our disagreement. I like the guys we picked and am ok with where they were picked. You were higher on some of the available DL than the team was. I think they would have been reaches. Only time will tell.

alkemical
07-02-2009, 09:25 AM
I think crowder should just beef up a bit and play DE in the 3/4

montrose
07-04-2009, 10:47 AM
While I imagine we'll see Quinn used in some 2 and 3 TE sets, I wouldn't be shocked if he was selected with the idea of eventually replacing Graham who has a large salary if I remember correctly. Remember, McDaniels values well-rounded players so a guy like Quinn (if he's a great blocker with good hands as we're being sold) would be of more value than a one-trick pony like Scheffler. Now I imagine we'll see McDaniels work in some packages for Scheffler during certain situations but I don't think he has any interest in playing a guy whose not a great blocker as a full-time TE - especially with the RBs being so critical in the passing game.

Cito Pelon
07-04-2009, 11:08 AM
Honestly, you do know you're one of the top 5 dumbest people on the board, right?

Don't be pointing fingers, Rev. You're in the top five.

Cito Pelon
07-04-2009, 11:09 AM
McDraftbusts strikes again!

That's so cute! Such a clever little girl you are with your funny names.

strafen
07-04-2009, 11:38 AM
While I imagine we'll see Quinn used in some 2 and 3 TE sets, I wouldn't be shocked if he was selected with the idea of eventually replacing Graham who has a large salary if I remember correctly. Remember, McDaniels values well-rounded players so a guy like Quinn (if he's a great blocker with good hands as we're being sold) would be of more value than a one-trick pony like Scheffler. Now I imagine we'll see McDaniels work in some packages for Scheffler during certain situations but I don't think he has any interest in playing a guy whose not a great blocker as a full-time TE - especially with the RBs being so critical in the passing game.I really doubt he will try to get rid of Graham for Quinn.
It can, and may eventually happen due to both players age, a younger more promising one will eventually replace an aging decaying player, but as of now, Graham, and even Scheffler are solid TE's as any in the NFL.
Graham played in New England, so he knows the system, and McDaniels knows him, obviously

Quinn, it was one of those picks we could've had in the later roundss. While McDaniels recognizes his value and abilities, nobody else would've been that much interested in him to pick him where the Broncos picked him
Still, he's as valuable to the Broncos system as any other player would've been more valuable to another team, and not for the Broncos.
With that said, I agree with the "Amoeba" offense analogy by Br0nc0Buster.
We have the players in place to establish a powerful and dominant running game as we ever dreamt of having...
I just hope our passing game will be not as good in terms of humongus passing yards, but in high efficiency passing attack. We have one of the best talent on the OL and quite capable receivers on the roster
Still, with the defense getting a makeover, the new coaching staff, system and philosphy will be enough to improve vastly from last year

Call me a homer, but this is what I see as the best telling story that indicates we're going to be better than people criticizing our draft, the trading Cutler, yadah, yadah, yadah, give us credit for...

TheReverend
07-04-2009, 11:51 AM
Don't be pointing fingers, Rev. You're in the top five.

Who are you again?

Cito Pelon
07-04-2009, 11:57 AM
Who are you again?

I'm the guy that rubs your nose in the dirt over and over.

27atwater
07-04-2009, 11:59 AM
Whether or not anyone agrees w/ the pick, he was going to be taken very shortly after our spot. Reports around here say that the Steelers were very seriously considering him at the spot we traded for and other teams did have him on their boards. No link to post as it is an old story and I'm too lazy to find it. So take it for what ya feel it's worth. Just sayin...

TheReverend
07-04-2009, 12:00 PM
I'm the guy that rubs your nose in the dirt over and over.

Okay, so you're delusional. Got it.

Spider
07-04-2009, 12:03 PM
I'd rather create match-up problems and have the defense defend every blade of redzone grass than "go jumbo", but okay.

Would've hated the pick even if it HADN'T necessitated a trade.

BUT at least he's not Bruton.

Match up problems work great between the 20's , but there is no substitution for power football in the redzone ..........

27atwater
07-04-2009, 12:06 PM
I do have to agree w/ Spider. As much as it hurt to see us trade 2 3rd rounders for a blocking TE, I do at least see the potential benefit that it can add to the team. We've been soft in goalline and short yardage situations for a while now. We need to get tough again. Noone fears us right now. They need to.

TheReverend
07-04-2009, 12:07 PM
Match up problems work great between the 20's , but there is no substitution for power football in the redzone ..........

How about good defense in the redzone? ;)

I'd still rather have Scheffler split wide. That's bringing a LB out of the box and opening a running lane, OR it's pulling a safety down to cover him and freeing Brandon (Marshall or Lloyd? lol) or Eddie to single coverage.

strafen
07-04-2009, 12:08 PM
Whether or not anyone agrees w/ the pick, he was going to be taken very shortly after our spot. Reports around here say that the Steelers were very seriously considering him at the spot we traded for and other teams did have him on their boards. No link to post as it is an old story and I'm too lazy to find it. So take it for what ya feel it's worth. Just sayin...Yeah, I've heard the same thing
Now, we've all seen Scheffler, and we've all seen Graham, solid established NFL TE's
Now, take a look at this video below, and you can see how this guy with his speed and physical abilities can be a devastating weapon blocking and catching the ball
It's worth seeing again, since people have not commented much about this video...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d80f2e13a/2009-Combine-workout-Richard-Quinn

Cito Pelon
07-04-2009, 12:23 PM
I really doubt he will try to get rid of Graham for Quinn.
It can, and may eventually happen due to both players age, a younger more promising one will eventually replace an aging decaying player, but as of now, Graham, and even Scheffler are solid TE's as any in the NFL.
Graham played in New England, so he knows the system, and McDaniels knows him, obviously

Quinn, it was one of those picks we could've had in the later roundss. While McDaniels recognizes his value and abilities, nobody else would've been that much interested in him to pick him where the Broncos picked him
Still, he's as valuable to the Broncos system as any other player would've been more valuable to another team, and not for the Broncos.
With that said, I agree with the "Amoeba" offense analogy by Br0nc0Buster.
We have the players in place to establish a powerful and dominant running game as we ever dreamt of having...
I just hope our passing game will be not as good in terms of humongus passing yards, but in high efficiency passing attack. We have one of the best talent on the OL and quite capable receivers on the roster
Still, with the defense getting a makeover, the new coaching staff, system and philosphy will be enough to improve vastly from last year

Call me a homer, but this is what I see as the best telling story that indicates we're going to be better than people criticizing our draft, the trading Cutler, yadah, yadah, yadah, give us credit for...

I agree with that. Couple that with what seems to be on paper a good power running attack, that means points scored. I like points scored.

Cito Pelon
07-04-2009, 12:29 PM
Okay, so you're delusional. Got it.

Well, you keep on posting, and I'll keep on rubbing your nose in the dirt. I've done it before - as have many other posters here - and I'm sure you'll give me the opportunities to rub your nose in the dirt again.

boppool
07-04-2009, 12:40 PM
Yeah, I've heard the same thing
Now, we've all seen Scheffler, and we've all seen Graham, solid established NFL TE's
Now, take a look at this video below, and you can see how this guy with his speed and physical abilities can be a devastating weapon blocking and catching the ball
It's worth seeing again, since people have not commented much about this video...

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/09000d5d80f2e13a/2009-Combine-workout-Richard-Quinn

Although we gave up a lot for him, I'll be ecstatic if/when he becomes the next Antonio Gates

strafen
07-04-2009, 12:45 PM
Although we gave up a lot for him, I'll be ecstatic if/when he becomes the next Antonio GatesI think he may be more dynamic and explosive than Gates was/is
Three more weeks before tarining camp starts? !Booya! :thumbsup:

Spider
07-04-2009, 12:45 PM
How about good defense in the redzone? ;) I learned along time ago about wishing for such lofty goals ;D

I'd still rather have Scheffler split wide. so would I no reason why we cant use a 2 TE formation one to split , the other to crash the DE

27atwater
07-04-2009, 01:05 PM
The more options we have, the less predictable we are. If this dude can become a threat, defenses will have to respect the pass regardless of which TE sets we have in.

Cito Pelon
07-04-2009, 01:26 PM
How about good defense in the redzone? ;)

I'd still rather have Scheffler split wide. That's bringing a LB out of the box and opening a running lane, OR it's pulling a safety down to cover him and freeing Brandon (Marshall or Lloyd? lol) or Eddie to single coverage.

Scheffler split wide? McDraftbust will probably try that. Will that finally shut you up, McRev?

TheReverend
07-04-2009, 01:44 PM
I learned along time ago about wishing for such lofty goals ;D

so would I no reason why we cant use a 2 TE formation one to split , the other to crash the DE

Right, but it's doubtful Quinn is a better blocker than Graham... so in a 2 TE set to do just that would most likely consist of Graham and Scheffler...

Sadly, we can only have 11 players on the field :) Adding a third TE removes either Marshall, Royal or Moreno/Hillis. All matchup problems in the redzone.

This is why, and I repeat, Quinn was silliness.

TheReverend
07-04-2009, 01:46 PM
Well, you keep on posting, and I'll keep on rubbing your nose in the dirt. I've done it before - as have many other posters here - and I'm sure you'll give me the opportunities to rub your nose in the dirt again.

Sure thing.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q84/mr_sparks80/spongebob.jpg

Cito Pelon
07-04-2009, 02:55 PM
While I imagine we'll see Quinn used in some 2 and 3 TE sets, I wouldn't be shocked if he was selected with the idea of eventually replacing Graham who has a large salary if I remember correctly. Remember, McDaniels values well-rounded players so a guy like Quinn (if he's a great blocker with good hands as we're being sold) would be of more value than a one-trick pony like Scheffler. Now I imagine we'll see McDaniels work in some packages for Scheffler during certain situations but I don't think he has any interest in playing a guy whose not a great blocker as a full-time TE - especially with the RBs being so critical in the passing game.

Good take. But, I'm a little curious, if Tony doesn't stick as a Gates kind of guy, a guy that doesn't block much. Naturally, you need a great running game to pick up that slack.

I guess we'll see come preseason.

Cito Pelon
07-04-2009, 03:01 PM
Sure thing.

http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q84/mr_sparks80/spongebob.jpg

You make some good posts sometimes, but you have an insulting nature that puts people off.

Beantown Bronco
07-04-2009, 03:11 PM
Whether or not anyone agrees w/ the pick, he was going to be taken very shortly after our spot.

Couldn't disagree more. I love how you state this as "fact".

Reports around here say that the Steelers were very seriously considering him at the spot we traded for

If those reports came out pre-draft, it's called a draft smokescreen and actually means they had zero interest in him.

other teams did have him on their boards.

HUGE difference between "having him on the draft board" and "having him as a second rounder on your draft board".

cutthemdown
07-04-2009, 03:11 PM
How about good defense in the redzone? ;)

I'd still rather have Scheffler split wide. That's bringing a LB out of the box and opening a running lane, OR it's pulling a safety down to cover him and freeing Brandon (Marshall or Lloyd? lol) or Eddie to single coverage.

Well in reality even Graham and Quinn can also split wide and force someone to go account for them. Moving RBS and TE's outside always requires that.

What if we did this though. Moreno/Hillis in backfield Graham annd Quin at TE
1 wr.

So that is a jumbo package, in short yardage the defense would have no choice but to go big. You need size to take on 2 big blockers at TE and FB.

But now what you can do is move Hillis outside, move Graham outside, and you can still run, but now 2 defenders have left the box, if they don't hillis and Graham can both catch and have good size to beat any man to man in redzone.

Cito Pelon
07-04-2009, 04:23 PM
Well in reality even Graham and Quinn can also split wide and force someone to go account for them. Moving RBS and TE's outside always requires that.

What if we did this though. Moreno/Hillis in backfield Graham annd Quin at TE
1 wr.

So that is a jumbo package, in short yardage the defense would have no choice but to go big. You need size to take on 2 big blockers at TE and FB.

But now what you can do is move Hillis outside, move Graham outside, and you can still run, but now 2 defenders have left the box, if they don't hillis and Graham can both catch and have good size to beat any man to man in redzone.

Rev makes things up as he goes along.

Broncos_OTM
07-04-2009, 05:29 PM
You make some good posts sometimes, but you have an insulting nature that puts people off.

It does get a little old, he has been beating the same drum all offseason. Rev i like to see the wide open in the redzone as well but you cant build a house with just a hammer.

TheReverend
07-04-2009, 07:42 PM
Well in reality even Graham and Quinn can also split wide and force someone to go account for them. Moving RBS and TE's outside always requires that.

What if we did this though. Moreno/Hillis in backfield Graham annd Quin at TE
1 wr.

So that is a jumbo package, in short yardage the defense would have no choice but to go big. You need size to take on 2 big blockers at TE and FB.

But now what you can do is move Hillis outside, move Graham outside, and you can still run, but now 2 defenders have left the box, if they don't hillis and Graham can both catch and have good size to beat any man to man in redzone.

Neither Quinn nor Graham are a threat to change someone from keying the run. Scheffler is.

As per your scenario, great, we've removed two defenders from the box, and we've also removed our two best blockers.....

TheReverend
07-04-2009, 07:45 PM
It does get a little old, he has been beating the same drum all offseason. Rev i like to see the wide open in the redzone as well but you cant build a house with just a hammer.

You're right, I should change my opinion because you think it's "old".

27atwater
07-04-2009, 07:48 PM
If those reports came out pre-draft, it's called a draft smokescreen and actually means they had zero interest in him.



HUGE difference between "having him on the draft board" and "having him as a second rounder on your draft board".

Umm..they were actually post-draft.

Sorry...I left out the word HIGH as in "high on their draft boards". Thanx for catching that.

Beantown Bronco
07-05-2009, 10:17 AM
Umm..they were actually post-draft.


If that were really the case, then they would've been posted here. But they weren't. Hundreds of posts were made here in the weeks following the draft about how nobody was going to select him until AT LEAST round 4, and none of them were contradicted by anything in print.

I would love to see a link that says otherwise.

Dr. Broncenstein
07-05-2009, 10:39 AM
I'm the guy that rubs your nose in the dirt over and over.

http://blog.mrhacks.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/oh-snap-chart.jpg

Cito Pelon
07-05-2009, 10:54 AM
Right, but it's doubtful Quinn is a better blocker than Graham... so in a 2 TE set to do just that would most likely consist of Graham and Scheffler...

Sadly, we can only have 11 players on the field :) Adding a third TE removes either Marshall, Royal or Moreno/Hillis. All matchup problems in the redzone.

This is why, and I repeat, Quinn was silliness.

What? That was pretty garbled, Rev/Mock.

I don't know what you were trying to say, you probably don't either. The bottom line is Quinn was projected to be a chain-mover, be it by blocking or in the short passing game. I don't see how that's a problem.

Cito Pelon
07-05-2009, 11:09 AM
Couldn't disagree more. I love how you state this as "fact".



If those reports came out pre-draft, it's called a draft smokescreen and actually means they had zero interest in him.



HUGE difference between "having him on the draft board" and "having him as a second rounder on your draft board".

True that the Bronc FO got a little bit scared in the 2009 draft and made some questionable moves. But, it looks like they got some dang good players so I don't have a big problem with the draft overall.

tsiguy96
07-05-2009, 11:15 AM
If that were really the case, then they would've been posted here. But they weren't. Hundreds of posts were made here in the weeks following the draft about how nobody was going to select him until AT LEAST round 4, and none of them were contradicted by anything in print.

I would love to see a link that says otherwise.

just a few weeks ago a areport came out saying if quinn fell to texans in the third he was gone.

an amazing blocking OT is highly regarded, why not a great blocking TE for goalline /power run situations as well? they are highly regarded in the NFL, just not a sexy pick to the fans, which is why you guys are bitching

DBroncos4life
07-05-2009, 11:30 AM
just a few weeks ago a areport came out saying if quinn fell to texans in the third he was gone.

an amazing blocking OT is highly regarded, why not a great blocking TE for goalline /power run situations as well? they are highly regarded in the NFL, just not a sexy pick to the fans, which is why you guys are b****ing

http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/9481/egyptnil.jpg (http://img39.imageshack.us/i/egyptnil.jpg/)

cutthemdown
07-05-2009, 12:04 PM
Neither Quinn nor Graham are a threat to change someone from keying the run. Scheffler is.

As per your scenario, great, we've removed two defenders from the box, and we've also removed our two best blockers.....

Scheffler can't block though and in redzone gets dominated in that area. That's why he came out a lot in the past, he's just not physical at point of attack.

watermock
07-05-2009, 01:04 PM
Our rezone sucked because Hamilton got overpowered and we lost Hillis.

27atwater
07-05-2009, 06:51 PM
If that were really the case, then they would've been posted here. But they weren't. Hundreds of posts were made here in the weeks following the draft about how nobody was going to select him until AT LEAST round 4, and none of them were contradicted by anything in print.

I would love to see a link that says otherwise.

I'm hardly gonna get into a pissing contest over it. Believe what ya want. To me, it's enough that 2 other posters have supported the idea that he would have been taken sooner than expected based on what they had heard/read.

cutthemdown
07-05-2009, 07:03 PM
Neither Quinn nor Graham are a threat to change someone from keying the run. Scheffler is.

As per your scenario, great, we've removed two defenders from the box, and we've also removed our two best blockers.....

Well it makes no matter what you think. If you are in a single WR with Marshall etc out wide. Have Graham and Quinn on los, with Hillis in backfield with Moreno you would have no option other them going big, removing dbacks and small linebackers. You don't have to split them all wide but if you send even Quinn out there you have to guard him, regardless it removes a defender from the box.

cutthemdown
07-05-2009, 07:06 PM
Our rezone sucked because Hamilton got overpowered and we lost Hillis.

Honestly I thought Hamilton has a great yr. The game he played against ATL was the best any lineman played IMO all yr. He was on a bigger guy the whole game and dominated him.

I don't see him as the main reason, but in a way I do agree with you, we need to be bigger and Hamilton is a good spot to look at some point.

I also have to say though that Clady has a long ways to go as a run blocker. He came on at time last yr but really he has a ways to go in that dept. He should mauling dends off the point of attack and he just isn't.

IMO Harris a better run blocker with Kuper next to him. We need to get the left sides run blocking up to the right sides, and I think we will be really tough to stop on offense.

It could happen this yr just because Clady has a yr under his belt.

Beantown Bronco
07-06-2009, 07:49 AM
just a few weeks ago a areport came out saying if quinn fell to texans in the third he was gone.

an amazing blocking OT is highly regarded, why not a great blocking TE for goalline /power run situations as well? they are highly regarded in the NFL, just not a sexy pick to the fans, which is why you guys are b****ing

Nobody is b*tching about taking a "non sexy pick."

I personally have absolutely zero problem with selecting the "non sexy pick." Hell, I was part of the "draft Owen Schmidt high" crowd. I loved what Howard Griffith brought to the table. Let's be very clear on this: I have no problem with the pick if it's taken where I feel it would've been more appropriate (day two). I just have a problem with where they did it.

Beantown Bronco
07-06-2009, 08:02 AM
I'm hardly gonna get into a pissing contest over it. Believe what ya want.

It wouldn't be a pissing contest if anyone had any sort of link to back up what they are claiming.....but we all know they don't. People keep alluding to these mysterious "post draft reports", but now shockingly can't seem to produce them.

To me, it's enough that 2 other posters have supported the idea that he would have been taken sooner than expected based on what they had heard/read.

Should I run down the list of insane ideas that any 2 other posters have supported here? If that's the new criteria for making decisions, I'm worried.

Traveler
07-06-2009, 08:33 AM
People keep alluding to these mysterious "post draft reports", but now shockingly can't seem to produce them.

Here's one I think people might be referencing...

Before last season, National Football Scouting formed its opinion on North Carolina tight end Richard Quinn. He was graded between a sixth-round pick and an undrafted free agent.

After Quinn caught only eight passes for 97 yards, he had his own opinion. The sixth round seemed like a reach.

"I thought maybe I'd be a free agent and be blessed to have the opportunity to come to a team and maybe try out," he said.

Draft prognosticators weren't high on Quinn. Mel Kiper Jr. had Quinn ranked as a mid-round pick. Pro Football Weekly had Quinn ranked eighth among tight ends.

So how, a few minutes after text messaging his agent on draft day to say that he was going to sleep, did Quinn wind up as a second-round pick of the Denver Broncos?

His agent, Peter Schaffer, said it wasn't one team making a gigantic reach. He said he fielded calls from a few teams that wanted Quinn in the middle of the second round, but they traded their picks or passed on Quinn to fill other needs. Schaffer said Quinn would have gone in the first few picks of the third round.

Before the draft, Schaffer said he talked to Texans general manager Rick Smith, who wanted Quinn in the middle of the third round.

"I said ‘Great, he's not going to be there,'" Schaffer said. "I'm a Dr Pepper richer because that was the bet."

Continued...

http://www.gazette.com/sports/quinn-54275-round-agent.html

cmhargrove
07-06-2009, 08:35 AM
Although we gave up a lot for him, I'll be ecstatic if/when he becomes the next Antonio Gates

Honestly, Quinn may or may not be the player we hope, but great blocking TE's do get picked in the second round - that's "normal" if he really is a great blocker in the NFL. And, we gave up two thirds for a second and a fourth. So, you might like the pick or not, but by all means - it was a "fair" deal. We didn't "give up a lot."

Beantown Bronco
07-06-2009, 08:37 AM
1. These are quotes from a player's agent, not the teams themselves post draft. They are essentially meaningless. I guarantee you that every undrafted FA's agents have similar quotes from teams that "guaranteed" if they were on the board in the ___ round, that they would select them.

Ever see the movie "Two Days in April"? It proves my point.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970965/

2. Even if the Texans had wanted to select him with their 3rd rounder, that still makes Denver's ridiculous trade-up wholly unnecessary.

DBroncos4life
07-06-2009, 06:00 PM
1. These are quotes from a player's agent, not the teams themselves post draft. They are essentially meaningless. I guarantee you that every undrafted FA's agents have similar quotes from teams that "guaranteed" if they were on the board in the ___ round, that they would select them.

Ever see the movie "Two Days in April"? It proves my point.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970965/

2. Even if the Texans had wanted to select him with their 3rd rounder, that still makes Denver's ridiculous trade-up wholly unnecessary.

The Texans picked two or three spots ahead of us in the third round. Its really hard for me to believe we had to jump to the end of the 2nd round instead of jumping 4 spots to land him.