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mope81
06-29-2009, 07:35 AM
Ok ESPN Insiders can you get us the low down on the following two listings off the NFL rumors page:


Not enough for Marshall

Cut coming in Denver?


THANKS!!!

BroncoSojia
06-29-2009, 07:42 AM
Not enough for Marshall

Brandon Marshall | Broncos | Interested: Bears?

Given Brandon Marshall's holdout and trade demands this offseason coupled with his prior relationship with Jay Cutler, it was thought that a trade to the Chicago Bears was possible. On the other hand, as noted by Pro Football Weekly, team sources do not believe that the Bears have "enough ammo" to pull off the trade at this time.
It is not known how much "ammo" would be needed, but the prevailing opinion is that the Broncos won't end up trading Marshall at all unless an offer bowls them over.








Cut coming in Denver?


Some players take to a new defensive scheme with ease while others struggle. As the Denver Broncos transition to a 3-4 scheme for the 2009 season, one player who has not been able to find a niche is the team's first round pick from 2007, Jarvis Moss.
Moss is a natural defensive end in a 4-3 scheme, but has been working at outside linebacker this offseason. According to Scout.com, he'll need to make a solid impression during training camp or he could face being cut.

telluride
06-29-2009, 07:49 AM
And this is why it's insane to pay for ESPN Insider.

Smiling Assassin27
06-29-2009, 07:50 AM
Moss will sign in Jax or Arizona and become a Pro Bowler...

Also see: Berry, Bertrand and Hayward, Reggie.

Beantown Bronco
06-29-2009, 07:59 AM
Moss will sign in Jax or Arizona and become a Pro Bowler...

Also see: Berry, Bertrand and Hayward, Reggie.

Facepalm time.

Berry and Hayward were very good, productive players in Denver. Moss? Not even close.

It's not like those two players left and all of a sudden became good. In fact, Hayward has been pretty much garbage since he left Denver. Berry had one good year and has been hurt the rest of the time.

Neither were scrubs here that all of a sudden became good after they left. Let's stop perpetuating this myth for the 1,000th time.

oubronco
06-29-2009, 08:01 AM
Moss must really suck if he can't even stick as a backup

Popps
06-29-2009, 08:05 AM
Moss is not a "natural defensive end" in a 4-3 scheme. He's undersized and looked awful most of the time.

TheReverend
06-29-2009, 08:09 AM
Ya know, I'll admit that everytime he played, I thought he looked pretty good.

rugbythug
06-29-2009, 08:11 AM
Ya know, I'll admit that everytime he played, I thought he looked pretty good.

It was a pretty Impressive 2 games.

cousinal11
06-29-2009, 08:18 AM
The more time that passes, the more I see Brandon wearing a Broncos jersey next season.

I just don't see us trading him and I wouldn't think he's prepared to sit out the entire season.

gyldenlove
06-29-2009, 08:29 AM
What always bothered me about Moss is that I never saw the speed and the power he was supposed to have. He never looked bad to me, but he never looked like a good athlete to me.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-29-2009, 08:32 AM
How is that Marshall bit even a rumor? Also, now this is just me talking, I dont think there's a way in hell they'd trade Marshall to Chicago simply because Cutler is there

Br0nc0Buster
06-29-2009, 08:46 AM
What always bothered me about Moss is that I never saw the speed and the power he was supposed to have. He never looked bad to me, but he never looked like a good athlete to me.

Same here, I never saw the guy display elite talent.
Never saw any flashes of greatness, flashes of avergeness, but never greatness

Just a horrible pick, he will prolly be out of the league in 3 years

RunSilentRunDeep
06-29-2009, 08:53 AM
What always bothered me about Moss is that I never saw the speed and the power he was supposed to have. He never looked bad to me, but he never looked like a good athlete to me.

Agreed, even in his college tape it looked like he was running on stilts.

Kaylore
06-29-2009, 08:54 AM
Moss will sign in Jax or Arizona and become a Pro Bowler...

Also see: Berry, Bertrand and Hayward, Reggie.

Bertrand Berry got a lot of money and hasn't played a full season since 2005 and hasn't had more than 7 sacks since since then.

And Hayward? Hayward has been disappointing in J-Ville especially for the contract he signed. He hasn't even sniffed the pro-bowl.

Traveler
06-29-2009, 09:03 AM
How about a Moss for Alan Branch trade? Arizona needs another 4-3 DE and we need another body for NT. Both are close to being associated with the "B" word.

Any takers?

Popps
06-29-2009, 09:06 AM
Ya know, I'll admit that everytime he played, I thought he looked pretty good.

O.K... I'm exaggerating, but my fault was more with the "natural DE" comment in the article. He's far from a natural at anything, apparently.

He did show some burst a couple of times that I recall, but he just looked like he had no moves/technique.

Hopefully some coaching can help him along. Right now, he just seems like the speed-guy who dominates college level talent but can't make the adjustment to the pro game.

TheReverend
06-29-2009, 09:10 AM
O.K... I'm exaggerating, but my fault was more with the "natural DE" comment in the article. He's far from a natural at anything, apparently.

He did show some burst a couple of times that I recall, but he just looked like he had no moves/technique.

Hopefully some coaching can help him along. Right now, he just seems like the speed-guy who dominates college level talent but can't make the adjustment to the pro game.

No, I completely get your complaint and the complaint of the rest of the board too.

I dunno, it just seemed every time he was in, he was great at playing contain and forcing the play inside against the run, and he was usually the only guy remotely close to the QB and even had a 3 sack game against the Pats.

F me. I don't know.

theAPAOps5
06-29-2009, 09:13 AM
Seriously people pay for that crap, SERIOUSLY!

Beantown Bronco
06-29-2009, 09:14 AM
How about a Moss for Alan Branch trade? Arizona needs another 4-3 DE and we need another body for NT. Both are close to being associated with the "B" word.

Any takers?

Considering Moss was supposedly being offered up for as little as a 6th rounder during this past draft weekend, and there were no takers, I'd love to be able to get anything back for him at this point.

barryr
06-29-2009, 09:46 AM
Moss could be a pass rush specialist for some team, somewhere, but even with that, I think there is limited upside. I don't think he got much coaching on various moves and reading offenses in college or with the crappy Bronco defensive coaches Shanahan kept hanging onto.

gyldenlove
06-29-2009, 09:57 AM
Moss could be a pass rush specialist for some team, somewhere, but even with that, I think there is limited upside. I don't think he got much coaching on various moves and reading offenses in college or with the crappy Bronco defensive coaches Shanahan kept hanging onto.

I agree, it is pretty obvious that he is extremely raw and he doesn't look like he knows how to play with leverage or how to use pass rushing moves. Last year our pass rush looked very vanilla even on blitzes, I never saw any good stunts or counters and on overload blitzes it often looked like our defensive line didn't know how to open gaps for our blitzers to get through.

With decent coaching he might be able to use his size and supposed athleticism.

gyldenlove
06-29-2009, 09:58 AM
I just realized, this may be the first football related thread in nearly 5 months where we all seem to agree.

Pony Boy
06-29-2009, 09:58 AM
Considering Moss was supposedly being offered up for as little as a 6th rounder during this past draft weekend, and there were no takers, I'd love to be able to get anything back for him at this point.

Where did you get that information? At leat a dozen teams would give up a 6th for Moss in a heartbeat. Denver will take nothing less than a 1st and a player and no one is willing to give us that until there are some injuries at tc.

Florida_Bronco
06-29-2009, 10:00 AM
O.K... I'm exaggerating, but my fault was more with the "natural DE" comment in the article. He's far from a natural at anything, apparently.

He did show some burst a couple of times that I recall, but he just looked like he had no moves/technique.

Hopefully some coaching can help him along. Right now, he just seems like the speed-guy who dominates college level talent but can't make the adjustment to the pro game.

He was perfect for Jim Bates 4-3 scheme, as was Tim Crowder. In typical Shanahan fashion though, the outsider (Bates) took the fall for poor performance so Shanny could rush in his boyfriend Slowik and now we're left trying to find spots for these guys.

Beantown Bronco
06-29-2009, 10:07 AM
Where did you get that information? At leat a dozen teams would give up a 6th for Moss in a heartbeat.

http://www.profootballcentral.com/2009/04/26/jarvis-moss-on-trading-block-for-a-7th-round-draft-pick/

Denver will take nothing less than a 1st and a player and no one is willing to give us that until there are some injuries at tc.

I can only assume this statement is a joke, but you really didn't write it like was one......so I'm very worried you might be serious.

ward63
06-29-2009, 10:22 AM
I just hope Crowder can make it through. I liked his pick, but HATED the trade for Moss

400HZ
06-29-2009, 10:28 AM
He was perfect for Jim Bates 4-3 scheme, as was Tim Crowder. In typical Shanahan fashion though, the outsider (Bates) took the fall for poor performance so Shanny could rush in his boyfriend Slowik and now we're left trying to find spots for these guys.

Really? Maybe Tampa Bay will offer a 7th for the pair of them.

SportinOne
06-29-2009, 10:31 AM
The more time that passes, the more I see Brandon wearing a Broncos jersey next season.

I just don't see us trading him and I wouldn't think he's prepared to sit out the entire season.

This was said about 20,000 times before Cutler got shipped out...

just pointing that out.

Pony Boy
06-29-2009, 10:36 AM
http://www.profootballcentral.com/2009/04/26/jarvis-moss-on-trading-block-for-a-7th-round-draft-pick/



I can only assume this statement is a joke, but you really didn't write it like was one......so I'm very worried you might be serious.

Excuse me I stand corrected, I didn't have my reading glasses on and Moss looked like Marshall too me , "my bad" I thought holy crap if we can't get a 6th for Marshall***** you get the picture. This is why my wife does not let me wander far from the house alone !!!

Beantown Bronco
06-29-2009, 10:40 AM
Excuse me I stand corrected, I didn't have my reading glasses on and Moss looked like Marshall too me , "my bad" I thought holy crap if we can't get a 6th for Marshall***** you get the picture. This is why my wife does not let me wander far from the house alone !!!

:spit:

Gotcha......that certainly makes a lot more sense.

brncobrett
06-29-2009, 10:49 AM
And this is why it's insane to pay for ESPN Insider.

I agree!!!!:thumbsup: :rofl:

watermock
06-29-2009, 10:49 AM
I just realized, this may be the first football related thread in nearly 5 months where we all seem to agree.

Not me. Ayer most likely develops into a good 4/3. Alphonzo will find out how it is to play when your not 24 points ahead. Moreno will find out our run blocking isn't as good as our pass blocking, especially behind Hamilton and Harris. Moss is gone.

We will rank about 12 on offensive yards and 22 on D. 5-11.

watermock
06-29-2009, 10:58 AM
Originally Posted by Florida_Bronco
He was perfect for Jim Bates 4-3 scheme, as was Tim Crowder. In typical Shanahan fashion though, the outsider (Bates) took the fall for poor performance so Shanny could rush in his boyfriend Slowik and now we're left trying to find spots for these guys.

Exactly. We screwed the pooch by not bringing Spaggs and keeping Bates.

We have more of a mess on our front 7 than last year. DJ playing ILB, Ayers a tweener, WW3 and Larsen backups?

watermock
06-29-2009, 11:05 AM
And Hillis and Sheff get to learn new positions as well, as well as a new blocking theme.

I don't see some grand rallying cry around McBeavis.

He still has some talent at OL and WR and some at RB now.

It seems so long ago when we were a strong D draft and FA and a RB awaty.

OBF1
06-29-2009, 11:13 AM
The Giants will pick up Moss if we cut him and turn him into a beast.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-29-2009, 11:21 AM
Exactly. We screwed the pooch by not bringing Spaggs and keeping Bates.

We have more of a mess on our front 7 than last year. DJ playing ILB, Ayers a tweener, WW3 and Larsen backups?

I love how people think that just because you get a defensive minded HC, your D automatically improves. You make no sense

BroncoMan4ever
06-29-2009, 11:21 AM
Moss is not a "natural defensive end" in a 4-3 scheme. He's undersized and looked awful most of the time.

and the funny thing is, that coming out of college a 3-4 OLB is what he was best projected as, and if he can't even stick as a backup in that position, can we finally label him a bust?

cutthemdown
06-29-2009, 11:30 AM
Moss must really suck if he can't even stick as a backup

He makes too much to be a bkup. WHen you get the big bucks you have to become a starter or move on.

Beantown Bronco
06-29-2009, 11:41 AM
He makes too much to be a bkup. WHen you get the big bucks you have to become a starter or move on.

According to rotoworld, he's only slated to make $660,000 this year, $750,000next year and $850,000 the following year. He's already been paid his signing bonus. Any further bonuses are all performance-based.

If that's not "backup" money, I don't know what is.

cutthemdown
06-29-2009, 11:49 AM
LOL this has been a rumor since last yr. Way to keep us up to date INSIDER!!!!

The only thing ESPN gets inside on is your wallet when it comes to insider.

Absolutely nothing there you can't get somewhere else.

Popps
06-29-2009, 11:58 AM
He was perfect for Jim Bates 4-3 scheme, as was Tim Crowder. In typical Shanahan fashion though, the outsider (Bates) took the fall for poor performance so Shanny could rush in his boyfriend Slowik and now we're left trying to find spots for these guys.

Yea, I'm just looking at guys like Moss, Crowder and Powell as free draft picks this year. If one or two pan out, we win.

watermock
06-29-2009, 11:59 AM
*note* If you buy SI mag, not only do you get bikinis, plus a fleece pullover designed to impress, but NFL Insider! At $1 an issue!

LittleFloyd
06-29-2009, 12:11 PM
Moss can't play dead.

Inkana7
06-29-2009, 01:03 PM
Not me. Ayer most likely develops into a good 4/3. Alphonzo will find out how it is to play when your not 24 points ahead. Moreno will find out our run blocking isn't as good as our pass blocking, especially behind Hamilton and Harris. Moss is gone.

We will rank about 12 on offensive yards and 22 on D. 5-11.

I take you you've never watched many Wake games. Alphonso and that defense won quite a few games with takeaways turned into TDs in the last minutes of the 4th quarter.

Killericon
06-29-2009, 01:18 PM
One of the few times I've been right. My sig going into that draft was "F*** JARVIS MOSS"

Ugh. At least Thomas and Harris came out of it.

cousinal11
06-29-2009, 01:51 PM
This was said about 20,000 times before Cutler got shipped out...

just pointing that out.

True. I could have seen Cutler sitting out the season. Can Brandon afford to do that? I wouldn't think so.

2KBack
06-29-2009, 02:22 PM
Yea, I'm just looking at guys like Moss, Crowder and Powell as free draft picks this year. If one or two pan out, we win.

It has been nice seeing some press about Crowder this offseason. Moss got a lot of hype, but Crowder actually has some very impressive measurables. It was annoying as **** having him deactivated all last season while other guys were stinking up the place.

ColoradoDarin
06-29-2009, 03:03 PM
How is that Marshall bit even a rumor? Also, now this is just me talking, I dont think there's a way in hell they'd trade Marshall to Chicago simply because Cutler is there

Traded to GB, Minn or Detroit is far more likely than to Chicago (we will keep him though)

FireFly
06-29-2009, 03:37 PM
How is that Marshall bit even a rumor? Also, now this is just me talking, I dont think there's a way in hell they'd trade Marshall to Chicago simply because Cutler is there

Beyond that, why would we do ANYTHING to help improve the bears given that we have their 1st round pick. We want the bears to FAIL.

I'd think that were almost as likely to deal him to a division rival; which is to say, its not going to happen.

maher_tyler
06-29-2009, 03:46 PM
Seriously people pay for that crap, SERIOUSLY!

I can't believe at one point i actually thought about paying for it!!

Popps
06-29-2009, 03:47 PM
It has been nice seeing some press about Crowder this offseason. Moss got a lot of hype, but Crowder actually has some very impressive measurables. It was annoying as **** having him deactivated all last season while other guys were stinking up the place.

Yea, the talk about Crowder has surprised me the most. He totally disappeared from the staff's vocab last year. Even Moss got a couple of tries at LB late in the season, but Crowder wasn't even active.

All that said, there hasn't been much chatter about Powell. That bums me out, but we'll see what happens when the pads go on. He was a fairly intriguing pick as a run-stopper. Sure seems like he might make an interesting NT if he beefs up, or even a situational DE.

There are a lot of bodies with a lot of upside if you factor in this year's draft. I actually like our chances at LB, so we just need to find a gem in a couple of these young DL prospects. Maybe some real coaching and position coaching will help that process.

azbroncfan
06-29-2009, 05:04 PM
Moss will sign in Jax or Arizona and become a Pro Bowler...

Also see: Berry, Bertrand and Hayward, Reggie.

Not even close. Those guys looked pretty good last year in Denver and signed for over 5 million a year. Moss can't even get on the field.

BroncoBuff
06-29-2009, 05:57 PM
Seriously people pay for that crap, SERIOUSLY!

No kidding .... that's the subscriber content?!

PFW is ten times better for free ???

Captain 'Dre
06-29-2009, 07:46 PM
Moss must really suck if he can't even stick as a backup

He might be "good enough" to be a backup, but the team wouldn't figure to be excited about paying first round dollars to a backup.

DarkHorse30
06-29-2009, 09:57 PM
why not see if Tampa Bay (and Bates) want to pick up Moss for a draft pick

Spider
06-29-2009, 10:45 PM
in the 3-4 like the 4-3 or a big Nickle . the ends have to play the run well , In the 3-4 the ends have to shed the blocks and funnel everything inside , while in a 4-3 the DE has to keep containment and occupy blockers ..... switching from a 4-3 DE t oan outside backer in a 3-4 is tough ....... But in either Scheme the ends/outside guys have ot play the run or it is useless

24champ
06-29-2009, 11:05 PM
Maybe some real coaching and position coaching will help that process.

I hated Burney...he would yell "Come on Jarvis!" and no other teaching going on going on at TC. It was pathetic.

Beantown Bronco
06-30-2009, 06:18 AM
He might be "good enough" to be a backup, but the team wouldn't figure to be excited about paying first round dollars to a backup.

I discredited this one or two pages back. He's literally making just above the league minimum this year and next year with his only potential bonuses coming through on field incentives. He's already cashed his big "first round" bonus.

montrose
06-30-2009, 02:01 PM
We will rank about 12 on offensive yards and 22 on D. 5-11.

I could care less where we finish in yards, look where finishing #2 got us.

Captain 'Dre
07-01-2009, 11:09 AM
I discredited this one or two pages back. He's literally making just above the league minimum this year and next year with his only potential bonuses coming through on field incentives. He's already cashed his big "first round" bonus.

Thanks for the clarification. So it's just the remaining prorated portion of the bonus money that would immediately count against the '09 cap?

Beantown Bronco
07-01-2009, 11:56 AM
Thanks for the clarification. So it's just the remaining prorated portion of the bonus money that would immediately count against the '09 cap?

More or less. His whole deal was only for $15 mil, with $8 mil guaranteed....so the cap charges for keeping him or cutting him this year wouldn't be much $ either way.