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View Full Version : is it ok to spank your kids ?


Spider
06-27-2009, 10:22 AM
........

oubronco
06-27-2009, 10:24 AM
didn't hurt me none when I was young

Bronx33
06-27-2009, 10:28 AM
The lack of spanking now has produced a pack of disrespectful brats how does a timeout put the fear into a kid???? and there is a differece between beating the snot out of a kid and giving him a red ass. (I use to get the belt) and i didn't like it at all it was a deterent.

DBruleU
06-27-2009, 10:30 AM
"No, time outs and other methods work , Beating the snot out of the child doesnt"

No one has said to beat them. Spanking is different. I was spanked and it served me better. I have friends who have laughed at me because my parents disciplined me that way...but the funny thing is, they are the ones who have had multiple run ins with the police. Now I'm laughing at their dumb ***.

In my opinion this is the reason our stupid society now thinks that reabilitation is now the best thing for child molesters and the like. We are too soft on wrong doers now.

Gcver2ver3
06-27-2009, 10:32 AM
is it ok to spank your kids?

and twice on Sunday...

davidtkd
06-27-2009, 10:32 AM
The lack of spanking now has produced a pack of disrespectful brats how does a timeout put the fear into a kid???? and there is a differece between beating the snot out of a kid and giving him a red ass. (I use to get the belt) and i didn't like it at all it was a deterent.

QFT!

Gcver2ver3
06-27-2009, 10:33 AM
looks like somebody has been recently watching the Jackson 5 story...

Joe Jackson...real man of genious...

BroncoInSkinland
06-27-2009, 10:35 AM
I am against it most of the time, most lessons can be taught through much more effective means, but once in a rare while it is the only option remaining. I do however think the governement and other parents should stay out of it. Except in truely extreme circumstances, every parent should have the right to raise thier child as they see fit. Government regulations on how you can punish your child and societal pressure to stop spankings as mislabeled "child abuse" have led to the decline of our nations youth in what we used to consider basic manners and politeness IMHO.

Spider
06-27-2009, 10:39 AM
looks like somebody has been recently watching the Jackson 5 story...

Joe Jackson...real man of genious...

LOL no , the jon and Kate +8 story of her spanking a kid ...My wife spanks the kids , I dont hit out of fear of hurting them .........

Punisher
06-27-2009, 10:39 AM
Yea its ok to hit them,But not in a sick demented way which can Scar them for life.
For Example:
Smack your son in back of the head because he done something wrong(That's Fine)
Make your son get naked while holding text books(That's really really wrong)

Spider
06-27-2009, 10:42 AM
I am against it most of the time, most lessons can be taught through much more effective means, but once in a rare while it is the only option remaining. I do however think the governement and other parents should stay out of it. Except in truely extreme circumstances, every parent should have the right to raise thier child as they see fit. Government regulations on how you can punish your child and societal pressure to stop spankings as mislabeled "child abuse" have led to the decline of our nations youth in what we used to consider basic manners and politeness IMHO.

;D I got ass beatings growing up ..... my moms favorite ... smack me in the head with something , swift kick to the nuts , then stomp me when I was down ... after a while , beating lost their effect on me ;D
but Dads 2 hour speeches were killer ........I remember one time telling him , just shut the hell up already and whack me one and get it over with ........

Bronx33
06-27-2009, 10:44 AM
Does anyone remember getting in trouble and mom would say go to your room and ( wait till your father gets home) you just sat in your room dreading the sound of your dad car pulling up the driveway.

BroncoBuff
06-27-2009, 10:46 AM
The current psychiatric consensus is no. Sends the wrong message. There are far better methods.

Signed,

Dr. BroncoBuff

Punisher
06-27-2009, 10:48 AM
The current psychiatric consensus is no. Sends the wrong message. There are far better methods.

Signed,

Dr. BroncoBuff

Somebody got their ass kicked when he was a kid :wiggle:

BroncoInSkinland
06-27-2009, 10:53 AM
;D I got ass beatings growing up ..... my moms favorite ... smack me in the head with something , swift kick to the nuts , then stomp me when I was down ... after a while , beating lost their effect on me ;D
but Dads 2 hour speeches were killer ........I remember one time telling him , just shut the hell up already and whack me one and get it over with ........
I like doing things that take some time, I am new to the game, but I have found it particularly effective to do things like taking the power source for the Playstation away for a few weeks. It is great because she gets to see the playstation sitting there, but can't use it as a daily reminder. The battery for her laptop and cellphone works about as well. =)
So far only one spanking, I am not going to go into what she did, but I guarantee she will never do it again. Just an old fashioned spanking, no belt, no marks, only five swats, but because it is the only time it ever happened, it stands out in her mind. I could also see a simple swat in public for truely outrageous behavior, say for a child throwing a temper tantrum, just to get thier attention truely focused, but as I said, in my opinion it is up to each team of parents to decide these things, no one else. =)

dbfan4life
06-27-2009, 10:54 AM
I would never give it to my kids the way I got it but I do not hesitate to lay down a few smacks when they step out of line.

BroncoBuff
06-27-2009, 10:57 AM
Somebody got their ass kicked when he was a kid :wiggle:

I would take that post more seriously if it came from somebody other than "Punisher" ... :~ohyah!:

Spider
06-27-2009, 10:58 AM
I like doing things that take some time, I am new to the game, but I have found it particularly effective to do things like taking the power source for the Playstation away for a few weeks. It is great because she gets to see the playstation sitting there, but can't use it as a daily reminder. The battery for her laptop and cellphone works about as well. =)
So far only one spanking, I am not going to go into what she did, but I guarantee she will never do it again. Just an old fashioned spanking, no belt, no marks, only five swats, but because it is the only time it ever happened, it stands out in her mind. I could also see a simple swat in public for truely outrageous behavior, say for a child throwing a temper tantrum, just to get thier attention truely focused, but as I said, in my opinion it is up to each team of parents to decide these things, no one else. =)

;D each child is different , spankings will work on others others it wont ,....
I have been pretty lucky with my kids, my 17 year old Daughter is a virgin and isnt into drugs , drinking etc ..... my 14 year old has been arrested once ( Some teenager was beating the snot out of my daughter , so he picked up an equalizer and laid the ****er out , got arrested for assault with weapon ,the case got thrown out )but the 14 year old thinks that he is some kind of stunt man ;D .........

Kaylore
06-27-2009, 11:01 AM
There are more kids that need a spanking than could stand to not have one.

Los Broncos
06-27-2009, 11:02 AM
Just take away their Ipod then swat them.

Bronx33
06-27-2009, 11:04 AM
Just take away their Ipod then swat them.

My son has gotten to old to spank so i take away his precious guitar ( that get results) :spit:

Los Broncos
06-27-2009, 11:13 AM
My son has gotten to old to spank so i take away his precious guitar ( that get results) :spit:

Mine as well, he takes a lot to get my son pissed off.

Cant send them to their room, everything in there.

I just tell him no TV for a day or Wii, he doesn't like that.

BroncoInSkinland
06-27-2009, 11:15 AM
;D each child is different , spankings will work on others others it wont ,....
I have been pretty lucky with my kids, my 17 year old Daughter is a virgin and isnt into drugs , drinking etc ..... my 14 year old has been arrested once ( Some teenager was beating the snot out of my daughter , so he picked up an equalizer and laid the ****er out , got arrested for assault with weapon ,the case got thrown out )but the 14 year old thinks that he is some kind of stunt man ;D .........

I tell ya it's an experience. I never wanted kids, and was careful that I didn't have any. I didn't want the resposibility, or to be tied down. I also didn't think it would be fair to a child with my lifestyle and income. Then I met a woman who had one already and got the parental fast track with a 13 year old girl. She's 17 now and has had a few issues, but I like to think I have moved things in a positive direction for her.

Spider
06-27-2009, 11:19 AM
I tell ya it's an experience. I never wanted kids, and was careful that I didn't have any. I didn't want the resposibility, or to be tied down. I also didn't think it would be fair to a child with my lifestyle and income. Then I met a woman who had one already and got the parental fast track with a 13 year old girl. She's 17 now and has had a few issues, but I like to think I have moved things in a positive direction for her.

I didnt want kids either , I poked for fun , she is the one that took it serious ;D

DomCasual
06-27-2009, 11:23 AM
I can only tell you that I don't. I don't judge those that do, though - assuming they keep it reasonable.

Raidersbane
06-27-2009, 11:30 AM
Dad used his belt on me quite often. And mom broke more than a few wooden spoons on me. I never intended to do things that I thought before hand were bad, that's just how it ended up. Then (At age six.) there was the day I stole a horse at my great grandfather's in Buena Vista. I was gone for 18 hours (I was well provisioned with a canteen of koolade and 2 peanut butter and jelly sandwiches) and search parties were being sent out. Upon my much hearalded return and after everyone else had departed my father did not make use of his belt. Instead he used the reins from the very horse I had borrowed. This actually produced a tear to trickle down my face and this shocked my dad because I was a rather stubborn stoic child. Suffice to say I never again borrowed/stole another horse without permisson. Those reins stung let me tell you........

Bob's your Information Minister
06-27-2009, 11:32 AM
I was spanked routinely as a child.

TexanBob
06-27-2009, 11:53 AM
I'm all in favor of spanking Spider. The trouble is figuring out which end is his ass.

gunns
06-27-2009, 12:04 PM
It was a deterent to me and made me think of consequences. I understand the fear it will get out of hand, but sometimes just talking, the kid thinks hey that wasn't so bad. I never spanked my kids after 10, that's when taking things away worked.

My daughter was 13 and hadn't come home from school. It was the first time and I was in a panic. Called all of her friends, nothing. Finally called the police. Policeman comes into the house and starts taking notes, her description, so forth and in she walks. I said where have you been. She said out. I smacked her right across the mouth. The cop shut his note book, stood up and said "well I guess I'll be going. Looks like things will be handled appropriately here" and left.

footstepsfrom#27
06-27-2009, 12:19 PM
Mine are all now to old for spanking to be appropriate, but I'd say it depends on why you're spanking them if that's what you choose...spanking that is, not beating. I've had to give my kids VERY few spankings and also had VERY few problems. Most parents would love to have the problems I've had with my kids. Like most other things...this issue gets out of balance one side or the other. I hate seeing parents screaming at their kids or knocking them around in public. That's incredibly rude and humiliates a kid for no reason. It just makes you look like an asswipe. My rule of thumb when they were younger; I would spank for two reasons, 1) deliberate disobedience and 2) lying. Anything else got other punishments, timeouts, groundings, written assignments, extra chores, etc...I think my oldest girl got two spankings her entire life and she's a dream kid at 19 now. My dad was a rage-a-holic. Belts, fist, whatever was handy...once he came at me with a meat pounder, till I got bigger than him at 14 and was lifting weights, then it stopped. My mom used an electric chord (plastic) and sometimes green tree switches off an apple tree...both of this is inappropriate. If you use anything other than the palm of your hand you can't know how hard you're hitting. The only thing these beatings taught me was more defiance. My other rule...anytime I spanked my kids I made sure I was completely calm and in control before doing so, and I would sit them down and explain why this was happening first. Afterwords...usually 30 minutes...we'd talk about things.

listopencil
06-27-2009, 12:35 PM
..anytime I spanked my kids I made sure I was completely calm and in control before doing so, and I would sit them down and explain why this was happening first.



I think this is the key, and is absolutely necessary. I have never spanked my kids in anger. Never. It's abuse. You're an adult. You're substantially stronger than they are.

Other than that there is an age range where spanking seems to be effective. If you start doing it too soon it serves no purpose. They have to be old enough to understand that they are being punished or it's just "Why is Daddy being mean to me?" On the other end, if you are looking for weapons to make sure you are spanking them hard enough because they are so big that a swat doesn't affect them...they're too old.

kupesdad
06-27-2009, 12:58 PM
There are more kids that need a spanking than could stand to not have one.

You spank them until they get big enough to spank you back...

Actually, my 2 oldest knew me when I was young and not so beaten up so all I had to do was look at them the wrong way.

I caught my youngest looking into the mirror and crying so he could get the right look so that I wouldn't spank him anymore. So I stopped with him and used other methods but I'm not sure what worked...he just stopped doing stupid **** .. so far

kupesdad
06-27-2009, 01:01 PM
Mine are all now to old for spanking to be appropriate, but I'd say it depends on why you're spanking them if that's what you choose...spanking that is, not beating. I've had to give my kids VERY few spankings and also had VERY few problems. Most parents would love to have the problems I've had with my kids. Like most other things...this issue gets out of balance one side or the other. I hate seeing parents screaming at their kids or knocking them around in public. That's incredibly rude and humiliates a kid for no reason. It just makes you look like an asswipe. My rule of thumb when they were younger; I would spank for two reasons, 1) deliberate disobedience and 2) lying. Anything else got other punishments, timeouts, groundings, written assignments, extra chores, etc...I think my oldest girl got two spankings her entire life and she's a dream kid at 19 now. My dad was a rage-a-holic. Belts, fist, whatever was handy...once he came at me with a meat pounder, till I got bigger than him at 14 and was lifting weights, then it stopped. My mom used an electric chord (plastic) and sometimes green tree switches off an apple tree...both of this is inappropriate. If you use anything other than the palm of your hand you can't know how hard you're hitting. The only thing these beatings taught me was more defiance. My other rule...anytime I spanked my kids I made sure I was completely calm and in control before doing so, and I would sit them down and explain why this was happening first. Afterwords...usually 30 minutes...we'd talk about things.



My mom used an electric chord (plastic) and sometimes green tree switches off an apple tree...both of this is inappropriate


Explains the angry looking Avatar :wiggle:

Sassy
06-27-2009, 01:03 PM
It was a deterent to me and made me think of consequences. I understand the fear it will get out of hand, but sometimes just talking, the kid thinks hey that wasn't so bad. I never spanked my kids after 10, that's when taking things away worked.

My daughter was 13 and hadn't come home from school. It was the first time and I was in a panic. Called all of her friends, nothing. Finally called the police. Policeman comes into the house and starts taking notes, her description, so forth and in she walks. I said where have you been. She said out. I smacked her right across the mouth. The cop shut his note book, stood up and said "well I guess I'll be going. Looks like things will be handled appropriately here" and left.

and now days you would have kids calling 911 for that!
How life has changed.

In Jr. Hi we had a science teacher that would take you out into the hall and use a wooden paddle...the boys would come in laughing pretty much behind his back...they would keep a wallet in their back pocket and said it didn't even hurt.

DBroncos4life
06-27-2009, 01:11 PM
In the state of Montana its called partner family member assault.

Los Broncos
06-27-2009, 01:29 PM
I spanked it routinely as a child.

Fixed it for ya.

Rock Chalk
06-27-2009, 01:37 PM
Does anyone remember getting in trouble and mom would say go to your room and ( wait till your father gets home) you just sat in your room dreading the sound of your dad car pulling up the driveway.

Aww **** I hated that. God I hated that.

footstepsfrom#27
06-27-2009, 01:48 PM
Explains the angry looking Avatar :wiggle:
What? No...wait...you've never heard of the Blue Man Group? Cool stuff...

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gunns
06-27-2009, 01:54 PM
and now days you would have kids calling 911 for that!
How life has changed.

In Jr. Hi we had a science teacher that would take you out into the hall and use a wooden paddle...the boys would come in laughing pretty much behind his back...they would keep a wallet in their back pocket and said it didn't even hurt.

They were doing that back then. That cop knew that girl deserved what she got. I used to tell my kids if you want to call the police be my guest, it'll be a rest for me. Even though I don't spank them after 10, they know better than to get mouthy. That sends me more than anything. As they get older kids will try things that aren't appropriate and that's when you talk with them. But do not get mouthy.

maher_tyler
06-27-2009, 01:56 PM
I am against it most of the time, most lessons can be taught through much more effective means, but once in a rare while it is the only option remaining. I do however think the governement and other parents should stay out of it. Except in truely extreme circumstances, every parent should have the right to raise thier child as they see fit. Government regulations on how you can punish your child and societal pressure to stop spankings as mislabeled "child abuse" have led to the decline of our nations youth in what we used to consider basic manners and politeness IMHO.

I agree 110%...you can always tell who had disipline growing up and who didn't.

Gcver2ver3
06-27-2009, 02:56 PM
Does anyone remember getting in trouble and mom would say go to your room and ( wait till your father gets home) you just sat in your room dreading the sound of your dad car pulling up the driveway.

oh man do i...

i'd try to pretend i was asleep when he got home so maybe he'd let me off the hook...

didn't work...

Northman
06-27-2009, 04:33 PM
lol, Spanking. How funny.

If i were being raised in this day and age my dad would be locked away in prison somewhere. The fact that a parent cant discipline their children without the threat of a lawsuit or social services is a disgrace to today's society. As already pointed out, kids these days are out of control and have zero respect for authority in general. And yes, a good spanking would fix them in a hurry.

Northman
06-27-2009, 04:34 PM
Does anyone remember getting in trouble and mom would say go to your room and ( wait till your father gets home) you just sat in your room dreading the sound of your dad car pulling up the driveway.

Oh yea, boy did time ever slow down. Ironically though, when i started getting big enough my mom would try to smack me and i would laugh. However, she would resort to getting the spatchler and i would be running for my life at that point.

Northman
06-27-2009, 04:38 PM
Instead he used the reins from the very horse I had borrowed. This actually produced a tear to trickle down my face and this shocked my dad because I was a rather stubborn stoic child. .

LOL Ha!

I feel ya brother. My dad once used a bullwhip on me and if not for my mom saying that wasnt going to fly it would of been the instrument of choice. But that one time made sure i never forgot it.

SouthStndJunkie
06-27-2009, 04:49 PM
I enjoy spanking my wife.

DBroncos4life
06-27-2009, 04:57 PM
Its sad that humans have been on this earth for lord only knows how long and the only way we can think of to make kids behave is to spank them.

Northman
06-27-2009, 04:59 PM
Its sad that humans have been on this earth for lord only knows how long and the only way we can think of to make kids behave is to spank them.

I wouldnt say thats the only way but it sure is an option.

maher_tyler
06-27-2009, 05:17 PM
Aww **** I hated that. God I hated that.

Thats when you put on a few extra pair of underwear so it didn't hurt as much LOL...

Bronx33
06-27-2009, 05:38 PM
My dad used to say ( kidding ofcourse ) i keep the belt with the hooks in it way in the back of the closet and if i was real bad he would use it.

R8R H8R
06-27-2009, 05:39 PM
I am on the side of spanking as long as it doesn't turn into a beating. There are a lot of kids/brats that could use some old fashioned discipline.

With that being said, the worst punishment I ever had was not a spanking from Dad. All I ever wanted when I was a kid was a minibike. It was the kind of gift that would satisfy me forever (or so I said). Mom and Dad knew this was all I ever wanted.

So anyway, I get caught lying through my teeth to my mom, the details don't matter. It was a big lie, and I got caught red-handed. So my punishment was not a belt whipping at all. The punishment was that mom and dad promptly went to the store and bought a minibike that day. Then I had to stand to the side and watch my brother and sister ride it all day. Torture, real torture. I am scarred to this day.

Moon§hiner
06-27-2009, 05:42 PM
When my daughter was young, she would act up and the wife would count to 3 like a WWF referee and she would stop after 2...when she did get multiple swats from mom it wasn't hard and wouldn't cry tears. I would tell her that if I had to swat her, it will be just one swat and I would make her cry. Only did it twice in her early years, a reminder usually worked. She got to age 13 and said she was too big for a spanking, I took her and reminded her that she wasn't in charge of the household. We have a great relationship 23 years later.

Bronx33
06-27-2009, 05:44 PM
When my daughter was young, she would act up and the wife would count to 3 like a WWF referee and she would stop after 2...when she did get multiple swats from mom it wasn't hard and wouldn't cry tears. I would tell her that if I had to swat her, it will be just one swat and I would make her cry. Only did it twice in her early years, a reminder usually worked. She got to age 13 and said she was too big for a spanking, I took her and reminded her that she wasn't in charge of the household. We have a great relationship 23 years later.


You have to establish whose the boss or they will walk on ya later on you handled it perfect.

Rohirrim
06-27-2009, 05:53 PM
No.

Rohirrim
06-27-2009, 06:06 PM
Start at 2:28:

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Bronx33
06-27-2009, 06:08 PM
No.


Yes ROH that word works 5% of the time :P

Seamus
06-27-2009, 09:56 PM
Yes, my kids have "messed up" not following directions or deliberately doing something that they know they shouldn't do. An example my daughter in a parking lot decides to dart out into oncoming traffic, this isn't a hard swat, just one to get her attention along with why dad is freaked out at her actions that she knows better.

Archer81
06-27-2009, 10:05 PM
My brothers and I got spanked. When I got older my dad started doing the poking in the chest with his index and middle fingers. Would prefer getting smacked with a belt to that.

:Broncos:


*EDIT* Forgot, when we were in our teens, my dad got creative with punishments. If me and my brothers were fighting, he'd make us hug in the downstairs bathroom with the light off and the door closed, or hold up these 30 pound oak ladderback dining room chairs until he got bored, or get in pushup position and hold it until he got bored. My dad had an unnaturally ridiculous attention span. It worked pretty well.

Popps
06-27-2009, 11:00 PM
I think if a toddler tries to run into the street, a swat on the butt might get their attention. But overall, I don't think it's that effective. I haven't needed to yet, and not sure I will. Wouldn't condemn anyone who does so reasonably, I just think ultimately there are more effective tactics.

Boobs McGee
06-28-2009, 01:19 AM
I got the ol' hand on numerous occasions when I was younger, and it definitely made me think about my actions before I tried them again. I love my parents, am close with both, and wouldn't find anything wrong with spanking my kids someday (when I have them). An earlier poster said it best, imo, you shouldn't hit your kids in anger. If you're going to spank, make sure you're in complete control and not in a reactionary impulsive manner.

All that being said, I heard something on the radio a while back about spanking and how it affects your sexual life later on...found the article. Interesting.


Newswise — Children who are spanked or victims of other corporal punishment are more likely to have sexual problems as a teen or adult, according to new research presented today by Murray Straus, co-director of the Family Research Laboratory at the University of New Hampshire.
Widely considered the foremost researcher in his field, Straus presented his new research findings at the American Psychological Association’s Summit on Violence and Abuse in Relationships: Connecting Agendas and Forging New Directions held Feb. 28 and 29 at the Hyatt Regency Hotel in Bethesda, MD.
Straus analyzed the results of four studies and found that spanking and other corporal punishment by parents is associated with an increased probability of three sexual problems as a teen or adult:
• Verbally and physically coercing a dating partner to have sex.
• Risky sex such as premarital sex without a condom.
• Masochistic sex such as being aroused by being spanked when having sex.
“These results, together with the results of more than 100 other studies, suggest that spanking is one of the roots of relationship violence and mental health problems. Because there is 93 percent agreement between studies that investigated harmful side effects of spanking, and because over 90 percent of U.S. parents spank toddlers, the potential benefits for prevention of sexual and relationship violence is large,” Straus says.
“Furthermore, because other research shows spanking is not more effective than other discipline methods, there is no need to expose children to the harmful effects of spanking. We can help prevent mental health problems and relationship violence from happening by a national health policy recommending never spanking,” he says.
Coerced Sex
A survey of more than 14,000 university students in 32 nations found that 29 percent of the male and 21 percent of the female students had verbally coerced sex from another person. Coerced sex involves insisting on sex when the partner does not want to, or threatening to end the relationship if the partner does not have sex.
The percentages of those who physically forced sex were much lower: 1.7 percent of the men and 1.2 percent of the women said they had used physical force, such as holding down the partner or hitting a partner to make them have sex.
“The most important finding of this study is that each increase of one step on a four-step measure of corporal punishment was associated with a 10 percent increase in the probability of verbal sexual coercion by men and a 12 percent increase in sexual coercion by women,” Straus says. “The relation of corporal punishment to physically forcing sex was even stronger. Each increase of one step in corporal punishment was associated with a 33 percent increase in the probability of men forcing sex and a 27 percent increase in the probability of women doing this.”
Risky Sex
In the second study, Straus analyzed the same sample of university students, but focused on whether they had insisted on sex without using a condom. Straus found that 15 percent of the men and 13 percent of the women had insisted on sex without a condom at least once in the past year.
Using the four-step corporal punishment scale, Straus found that of the group with the lowest score on the corporal punishment scale, 12.5 percent had insisted on unprotected sex. In contrast, 25 percent of students in the highest corporal punishment group engaged in this type of risky sex.
The third study analyzed data on 440 students in a New Hampshire high school. The students were divided into five groups, ranging from those who were never spanked to those whose parents used corporal punishment even when they were 13 years old and older. The study evaluated eight indicators of risky sex, such as more than one sex partner.
Straus found that students who had experienced corporal punishment had engaged in more risky sexual behavior than students who had not been spanked. From this study, Straus concludes that corporal punishment weakens the bond between the child and the parents. He believes that this alienation from parents may make teenagers less likely to avoid sex and less likely to follow safe sex practices.
Masochistic Sex
In the fourth study, Straus asked 207 students at three colleges about whether they had ever been sexually aroused by masochistic sex: imagining that they were being tied up when having sex, engaging in rough sex, or by spanking, and if they had been sexually aroused by actually doing these three things.
"The core idea of this study is that being spanked by loving parents confuses love with violence, which increases the probability that violence will be part of making love,” Straus says.
The study found that 75 percent of students who had been spanked a lot by their parents were sexually aroused by masochistic sex. In contrast, 40 percent of students who had never been spanked were interested in masochistic sex.
"What is new about this study is a scientific test of the idea that being spanked as a child inclines people to want to be spanked when having sex, and that this is especially likely to be true when there is a combination of lots of spanking and lots of love," Straus says.
Reducing Spanking
To reduce the use of corporal punishment, Straus recommends that the American Psychological Association, the U.S. Children's Bureau, and other organizations publicize a recommendation that parents should never spank.
“However, to make this work, we need to start by informing professionals who advise parents about the evidence-base for that policy. They need this information to be able to give appropriate information and help to parents about replacing spanking with positive discipline to correct misbehavior,” he says.
Since 1975, the Family Research Laboratory has devoted itself primarily to understanding family violence and the impact of violence in families. As public and professional interest in family violence has grown, so has the need for more reliable knowledge. The lab has tried to fill that need in a variety of ways: through comprehensive literature reviews, new theories, and methodologically sound studies. Researchers at the lab pioneered many of the techniques that have enabled social scientists to estimate directly the scope of family violence.
Straus is the co-director of the Family Research Laboratory and professor of sociology at the University of New Hampshire. He has studied spanking by large and representative samples of American parents since 1969. He is the author of “Beating The Devil Out Of Them: Corporal Punishment In American Families And Its Effects On Children.” He has been president of three scientific societies including the National Council On Family Relations, and an advisor to the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation. Much of his research on spanking can be downloaded from http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2 (http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2).


PERSONALLY, I found some very interesting points in there. While I've never "coercesed" anyone into sex....never forced any girl physically, or threatened to break up with them etc etc., I do enjoy some rough sex. Spanking, tying up, hard ****ing, some pain with the pleasure. Not saying that's ALL I like to do with my girl, but it's fun. I can be just as happy making love slowly and sweetly, passionately. BUT, I wonder how accurate this study actually is, and if there IS a relationship between the childhood spanking and my sexual escapades. Out of the girls I've been with, only a couple didn't like to engage in some kind of rougher sex.... I find it exhilirating and fun to go a little crazy in the bedroom, and enjoy myself when that's a possibility with a willing partner. I've never thought there was anything wrong with that, especially when those experiences have been validated with girls who enjoy it. Does that make me masochistic? I dunno

The part I really didn't agree with was bolded: I don't think my parents' disciplinary actions had ANY negative effect on our bond at all, and I would honestly say that it helped to strengthen that bond because it drew a clear picture of parental posturing. For instance, growing up, my parents were regulatory figures, as opposed to the "friend" that I see so many parents these days trying to be. The spankings helped me to realize that they were first and foremost my parents, in a position of power and wisdom.

Didn't mean to hijack the thread if I did, but thought it was an interesting addition to the topic

EDIT: link to the story here:
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/537903/

Boobs McGee
06-28-2009, 01:23 AM
I think if a toddler tries to run into the street, a swat on the butt might get their attention. But overall, I don't think it's that effective. I haven't needed to yet, and not sure I will. Wouldn't condemn anyone who does so reasonably, I just think ultimately there are more effective tactics.

BTW Popps, I've been meaning to ask you, is your avy from the cover of the book by David Sedaris "when you are engulfed in flames", or are you a van gogh fan?

FireFly
06-28-2009, 05:28 AM
The lack of spanking now has produced a pack of disrespectful brats how does a timeout put the fear into a kid???? and there is a differece between beating the snot out of a kid and giving him a red ass. (I use to get the belt) and i didn't like it at all it was a deterent.

QFT

spdirty
06-28-2009, 06:55 AM
Depends on the kid. My 6 year old needs spankings almost once a week, my 3 year old, all I have to do is look at him with the wide eyes and tell him he was bad and he is almost crying and putting his head down in shame right away he's so sensitive. Sure that'll change though. My rule is only spank when either they do something real real bad or show a total lack of respect towards me or their mom. If that doesnt work then the belt will, which is used very rarely, maybe once or twice a year.


Also, best way to spank a kid IMO is not how hard you hit em, but the delay between spanks. What I like to do is pull their pants down, lay em over a bed, tell em how many their getting and wait at least 20-30 seconds between spanks. They're usually crying and screaming bloody murder after the 2nd spank. Anticipation just freaks em out, like Christmas in reverse. But I reckon I havent had to spank either of em in about 4-5 months. Just a warning gets em to stop pulling their bullshlt anymore.

My 3 year old though, timeout is usually the best way to go. But his timeout is nose in a corner while the other kids are playing. Sending him to his room is retarded since he has so many toys. Nose in the corner where he cant see anything or play with his shlt while in trouble is the best way IMO. With him I might just give him a swat on the butt from time to time, but timeout works best for him right now. That is of course subject to change.

Also think that if you spank a child in anger or you leave a mark thats pretty much borderline abuse. Dont do it. Always be in control of your emotions.

Also, every child is different. What works for one may not work for another. Example I remember my dad telling me stories bout when he was young and when my grandma would spank him he was crying before the first swat. My uncle however, would just laugh at my grandma after every swat and she'd hit him as hard as she could and he would just laugh his ass off at her till she'd eventually cry. Thats one of those cases where you just have to say OK this isnt working I have to figure out something he hates and do that.

Beantown Bronco
06-28-2009, 07:00 AM
Just take away their Ipod then swat them.

So that's why Cutler always acted like such a baby......I blame Shanny for never taking it away back in 06.

Broncoman13
06-28-2009, 07:05 AM
The lack of spanking now has produced a pack of disrespectful brats how does a timeout put the fear into a kid???? and there is a differece between beating the snot out of a kid and giving him a red ass. (I use to get the belt) and i didn't like it at all it was a deterent.

In Texas you could do that and if you didn't, another parent would!!! Serious as a heart attack, if you were in a public place (grocery store for example) and your child was acting up, people would look at you like, "Are you going to spank that kid... or should I?!?"

In Colorado, people are looking at you going..."Oooh if you spank that poor little innocent kid, I'm going to report you." And what is worse, they have!!! Ever seen a 3 year old after a day at the park or pool? It's so bad in Colorado that we struggle to take the kids out b/c they will end up with little scrapes and bruises. Pretty much a given for small children (I was so clumsy when I was that age that my mom made me wear a helmet around the house!!!). Raising kids in Colorado is flat out nutty.

I admit that I was spanked... A LOT as a kid and it didn't much stop me from getting into trouble (and more spankings). And you can bet your ass it was with a lot more than just a hand.

footstepsfrom#27
06-28-2009, 07:18 AM
To reduce the use of corporal punishment, Straus recommends that the American Psychological Association, the U.S. Children's Bureau, and other organizations publicize a recommendation that parents should never spank.
“However, to make this work, we need to start by informing professionals who advise parents about the evidence-base for that policy. They need this information to be able to give appropriate information and help to parents about replacing spanking with positive discipline to correct misbehavior,” he says.
The problem with research into stuff like this is two fold; 1) you and I (the public) never see the actual research itself. What we see is a summary of the findings, generally presented somewhere like a peer reviewed journal and passed along to the masses through the popular press which quotes it...sometimes accurately sometimes not...as if it's scientific fact, and 2) critical reviews of research that question findings based on errors in methodology, proper handling of data or other flaws found by peer review researchers rarely ever make it into the press...even if they make it into published peer reviewed journals, which they often don't.

In other words, unless you've actually seen the data, seen the methodology they used and reviewed the results with the benefits of a graduate school education that includes an understanding of how statistics and other facts function with respect to research analysis...merely hearing the resutls of another study...is essentially worthless. That's why I put little stock in this stuff. Few people realilze that in most cases it's actually possible to obtain the original data and other information from research studies that use federal funding under the US Freedom of Information Act. Even if they did, most wouldn't know what to do with it however.

It doesn't take much for "suggestions" and "recommendations" to eventually become law...and that is very dangerous. We've become a generation of lazy people who trust whatever we're told becuase somebody did a study or has a PhD. The truth is...most parents are better equipped to raise kids than "professionals", and those that aren't can get help in order to achieve that.

Boobs McGee
06-28-2009, 09:01 AM
The problem with research into stuff like this is two fold; 1) you and I (the public) never see the actual research itself. What we see is a summary of the findings, generally presented somewhere like a peer reviewed journal and passed along to the masses through the popular press which quotes it...sometimes accurately sometimes not...as if it's scientific fact, and 2) critical reviews of research that question findings based on errors in methodology, proper handling of data or other flaws found by peer review researchers rarely ever make it into the press...even if they make it into published peer reviewed journals, which they often don't.

In other words, unless you've actually seen the data, seen the methodology they used and reviewed the results with the benefits of a graduate school education that includes an understanding of how statistics and other facts function with respect to research analysis...merely hearing the resutls of another study...is essentially worthless. That's why I put little stock in this stuff. Few people realilze that in most cases it's actually possible to obtain the original data and other information from research studies that use federal funding under the US Freedom of Information Act. Even if they did, most wouldn't know what to do with it however.

It doesn't take much for "suggestions" and "recommendations" to eventually become law...and that is very dangerous. We've become a generation of lazy people who trust whatever we're told becuase somebody did a study or has a PhD. The truth is...most parents are better equipped to raise kids than "professionals", and those that aren't can get help in order to achieve that.

I wouldn't say lazy, but definitely curious. It does make it difficult when the so called experts come up with a study, because I think it's much easier to trust someone who HAS that degree. This is where my quandry comes in. Of course I take everything I read with a grain of salt, but aren't the people who are published in these journals at least somewhat qualified to perform their research?

For example, I go to my mechanic when something is wrong with my car that I cannot fix. I go to my doctor when my appendix is on fire and needs to be removed. These are people with the proper schooling in their fields, and I trust them to make proper decisions in regards to me. OBVIOUSLY, those people are making a MUCH more personal analysis of my situation, but the same jist applies to the proffesionals doing these studies. I would hope that they have enough experience (through schooling, studies, years in the field etc etc), and have the proper regulations/guidance, to make qualified analytical studies that would benefit joe blow (me, who has no degree :D ).

The more I think about your point though, the more I start to wonder how many of these people are in it for the money? How many are just trying to get published? How many are truly qualified? It's just another persons opinion, and the methods they use aren't really proven, because they're trying to break new ground. Who's to say the methodology used isn't completely ass backwards?


Ok, reread your post again (for the fifth time haha), I'm lazy. i NEVER check the sources, the peer findings, or even check the credibility of the researchees/ers. Dammit. I guess people were taking care of children for thousands of years before today without the help of some fancy suit in a lab somewhere, so why should their opinion matter too much :)

Like I said before, I've always taken "studies" with a grain of salt, but from now on I'll be taking a MUCH more practical look at what's published, thanks 27

Meck77
06-28-2009, 09:11 AM
I don't have kids so I really don't have room to talk but I recently had an old friend visit who has two kids. He doesn't spank them and they flat out control their parents. I was dumb founded at how much crap they take from their kids.

My parents occasionally spanked me but it was more the threat that kept me and my sister in line. My dad who's an old WWII vet who escaped from a russian work/concentration camp is real old school. Instead of putting me in the corner like most parents he put me on my knees with my hands up in the air against a wall. If I was real bad he'd toss a little bit of white rice on the hardwood floors. Ha! Yeah he was tough but looking back I understand his reasoning and thank him for the discipline that I deserved at the time.

IMO parents aren't tough enough on their kids and as a result we have soft generation coming up. The reality is I don't blame those kids for being bad. They have parents that aren't even responsible enough to have them in the first place.

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chadta
06-28-2009, 10:13 AM
if you were in a public place (grocery store for example) and your child was acting up, people would look at you like, "Are you going to spank that kid... or should I?!?"

there is something wrong when you have to ask other parents if they are going to do something to control their kids. I know i have done it several times, and always get the reply of, "well what do you want me to do" to which i reply if it was my kid sittin in the buggy throwing grapes at total strangers hed be hangin over the end of the buggy getting an ass whippin, but thats just me, i like my kids to behave.

that being said, yes i do spank my kids, only when they deserve it, most of the time just the threat of a "spankie bum" is enough to get them to smarten up.

Broncoman13
06-28-2009, 10:57 AM
I don't have kids so I really don't have room to talk but I recently had an old friend visit who has two kids. He doesn't spank them and they flat out control their parents. I was dumb founded at how much crap they take from their kids.

My parents occasionally spanked me but it was more the threat that kept me and my sister in line. My dad who's an old WWII vet who escaped from a russian work/concentration camp is real old school. Instead of putting me in the corner like most parents he put me on my knees with my hands up in the air against a wall. If I was real bad he'd toss a little bit of white rice on the hardwood floors. Ha! Yeah he was tough but looking back I understand his reasoning and thank him for the discipline that I deserved at the time.

IMO parents aren't tough enough on their kids and as a result we have soft generation coming up. The reality is I don't blame those kids for being bad. They have parents that aren't even responsible enough to have them in the first place.

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The part about kneeling in rice caught my attention. When I was about 9 my parents broke their spanking "tool" (a wooden, fish shaped, cutting board. The tail was the handle and it had a nice little hole thru the eye for airflow. Happy day when that thing split in half!!!) so they had to come up with a new punishment. My step-dad introduced me to a new punishment and I'll never forget the day. 1985 Notre Dame was playing and I wasn't too into football at the time, but neither was my step-dad. The Karate Kid was coming on for the first time, so I changed the channel. Big trouble for little Alex!!! Here's the part that will get you Meck, my step-dad put down a paper bag in the corner and then had me kneel (hands up, like you) in Popcorn Kernels. Sharp and hard as a rock! He then turned the channel and watched The Karate Kid himself as I kneeled in those popcorn kernels for what felt like an eternity. I missed maybe the first 10 minutes of the movie and as I recall, I was allowed to watch the remained with "time served". At least Meck's popps had an excuse though, war vet. My step-dad was a weekender in the North Carolina Air National Guard. Pretty sure that is a half step up from a boyscout!!!

bronco_boi_5280
06-28-2009, 11:07 AM
I don't have kids so I really can't comment, but I do have a pet monkey. When it gets out of line, I surely spank it.

Broncoman13
06-28-2009, 11:07 AM
there is something wrong when you have to ask other parents if they are going to do something to control their kids. I know i have done it several times, and always get the reply of, "well what do you want me to do" to which i reply if it was my kid sittin in the buggy throwing grapes at total strangers hed be hangin over the end of the buggy getting an ass whippin, but thats just me, i like my kids to behave.

that being said, yes i do spank my kids, only when they deserve it, most of the time just the threat of a "spankie bum" is enough to get them to smarten up.

I have a 5 year old with a birthmark on her back. It's about the size of a nickel and actually it's pretty faint. Looks a lot like a bruise on the top of her butt, bottom part of her back. Anyhow, we had someone come by asking all kinds of questions. Turns out, someone felt she was constantly bruised and figured they should save her. Funny as that may sound, it is incredibly frustrating. What's really funny, she is our sensitive one. A stern look, raised voice, and/or thought of a spanking is enough to straighten her out. Never had that issue in Texas. And, in Texas I got as many spankings at school as I did at home. And that candy ass girls track coach Mr. Brodie could flat out bring it. Come to think of it, my Jr. High VP in Colo Spgs. had a whoopen stick too. I think it was a deterrent though b/c I never got "pops" from him... and if anybody would have, it damn sure would've been me!!! Texas though, if you played ball there wasn't a real option. Go to detention and miss practice, you'd end up getting pops from Coach (and serving two hours in detention)... so you would have to opt for Pops and then ask for the extra one to "keep it off your record", meaning they wouldn't tell Coach unless it became a routine issue. We got away with a lot, but rolling the teacher out of the classroom (and down the hall) in her chair didn't go over real well.

Spider
06-28-2009, 05:16 PM
so 47 people think it is ok to light their kids asses up like a Christmas tree ..And everyone thinks I am the violent one ........... go figure ;D

footstepsfrom#27
06-28-2009, 06:24 PM
I wouldn't say lazy, but definitely curious. It does make it difficult when the so called experts come up with a study, because I think it's much easier to trust someone who HAS that degree. This is where my quandry comes in. Of course I take everything I read with a grain of salt, but aren't the people who are published in these journals at least somewhat qualified to perform their research?

For example, I go to my mechanic when something is wrong with my car that I cannot fix. I go to my doctor when my appendix is on fire and needs to be removed. These are people with the proper schooling in their fields, and I trust them to make proper decisions in regards to me. OBVIOUSLY, those people are making a MUCH more personal analysis of my situation, but the same jist applies to the proffesionals doing these studies. I would hope that they have enough experience (through schooling, studies, years in the field etc etc), and have the proper regulations/guidance, to make qualified analytical studies that would benefit joe blow (me, who has no degree :D ).

The more I think about your point though, the more I start to wonder how many of these people are in it for the money? How many are just trying to get published? How many are truly qualified? It's just another persons opinion, and the methods they use aren't really proven, because they're trying to break new ground. Who's to say the methodology used isn't completely ass backwards?

You're raising the right questions.

Qualifications and credentials are what get researchers a job, but here's the problem. The academic world...especially university professors...work under the mantra, "publish or parish"...and whether they do so or not...combined with tenure...is what gets these guys promotions, raises, and in many many cases...it lets them keep their jobs. Research grants for millions go to schools, labs and think tanks that publish. If you ask these people (I have) they'll tell you they're all under enormous pressure to publish. The problem is not really related to their qualifications, credentials or academic degrees...the acceptable standards of known research methodology and the handling of data sets are well established, but the temptation to try to meet the expectations of those who fund the research...that is where much of this problem lies.

Nearly all original research is funded, either privately or publicly. If you know who funded any given study...and what they've funded in the past...you'll find clues that reveal whether a study is supported by biased sponsors or something more objective. On top of this...consider that research grants typically are extended only for a given period of time. When the money runs out...if the project's not completed, there's no guarantee of more financing, and the grant has to be applied for again, which means the researchers are under constant pressure to get it done quickly. Researchers may also be susceptible to their own personal bias apart from the financial forces that drive an employer.

Here's an example; back in the early 90's the government was funding the youth drug intervention program called DARE (Drug Abuse Resistance Education), a national program started by LA Police Chief Darryl Gates in the early 80's that soon went national. Congress funded this organization with millions until finally someone got the brilliant idea of asking, "Does this thing actually work?" What followed...was a congressional inquiry that concluded that DARE had to prove that their program did what it was supposed to. Researchers were hired by DARE...they came back a year later and said, sorry, this doesn't really work. So DARE said thanks folks...fired them, then hired a new batch of hired guns. These guys were smarter...they said, "Sure it works". Congress was less convinced, and in 2001 the US Surgeon General's office declared that DARE doesn't work. It took the government 10 years to figure out what I already knew in 1992...because I didn't have an axe to grind and could look at the data objectively.

The point is...motives, especially financial...but also professional...interfere frequently with honesty. And where honesty is still functioning...simple mistakes still happen. Think of it like this...if there weren't good reason to question research, peer review committes and journals would not exist. They exist to fact check their own field...but the process is flawed, because it relies on honest motives, results being published, published in a timely manner, picked up by the general media, and ultimately...understood by the public at large. That chain of events frequently doesn't happen...at least not with consistency.
Ok, reread your post again (for the fifth time haha), I'm lazy. i NEVER check the sources, the peer findings, or even check the credibility of the researchees/ers. Dammit. I guess people were taking care of children for thousands of years before today without the help of some fancy suit in a lab somewhere, so why should their opinion matter too much :)

Like I said before, I've always taken "studies" with a grain of salt, but from now on I'll be taking a MUCH more practical look at what's published, thanks 27
We're all lazy about something...I do research out of necessity and because my business depends on it...plus I love doing it...on the other hand I simply refuse to do yard work...under any circunstances...so I pay people who do it better much to the chagrin of my wife. You're on the right track here...objectivity, a healthy dose of skeptism, a little leg work...you can find a lot just using Google Scholar which includes a lot of searches standard Google doesn't.

So anyway...you're welcome!

loborugger
06-28-2009, 07:54 PM
I enjoy spanking my wife.

Nice. Is she as appreciative receiving as you are giving. On 2nd thought, dont answer.

Another question is this:

Is it ok to spank it while rolling down a rural western road in your rig? Inquiring minds wanna know.

Spider
06-28-2009, 08:02 PM
Nice. Is she as appreciative receiving as you are giving. On 2nd thought, dont answer.

Another question is this:

Is it ok to spank it while rolling down a rural western road in your rig? Inquiring minds wanna know.

Only on tuesdays between the hours of 6 Pm and 8 PM ..........

Meck77
06-28-2009, 08:04 PM
I enjoy spanking my wife.

Sure you do but that results in more dang kids to spank! Spank! Spank!

Then you end up like Spider who probably has an auto spanker.

TheChamp24
06-28-2009, 09:05 PM
"Spare the rod, spoil the child"

It seems that not spanking in disciplining can make the child spoiled.
I think strict punishment is a must and to not make your child get the impression they can get whatever they want. My niece is spoiled right now at age of 3, and it kills me to see how disrespectful she is and how she practically gets her way all the time. Her parents don't really discipline her and cave in to her, which is why she is spoiled.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
06-28-2009, 09:13 PM
The current psychiatric consensus is no. Sends the wrong message. There are far better methods.


QFT.

Spanking is physical abuse. It is an abuse of power on the part of the parent or caregiver. It shames and humiliates the child and teaches him that violence is an acceptable form of conflict resolution in personal relationships.

It's pretty difficult to cite an example of a problem for which spanking is the best (or only) solution. Most parents who spank their kids are simply repeating what was done to them by their caregivers when they were children.

The empirical evidence has shown time and time again that punishment or aversive conditioning doesn't work or, at best, works only as long as the punishment (or the punisher) is present. In other words, you end up producing children (and adults) who refrain from wrongdoing only if and when they're afraid of getting caught or suffering some aversive consequence - not because they have developed an innate sense of morality or right and wrong.

The only time I personally support the use of punishment (i.e., capital punishment, etc.) is when it's done to insure the overall safety of a community, e.g., when evidence shows that a specific criminal (or type of criminal in the case of sex offenders, etc.) cannot be rehabilitated.

Spider
06-28-2009, 10:00 PM
"Spare the rod, spoil the child"

It seems that not spanking in disciplining can make the child spoiled.
I think strict punishment is a must and to not make your child get the impression they can get whatever they want. My niece is spoiled right now at age of 3, and it kills me to see how disrespectful she is and how she practically gets her way all the time. Her parents don't really discipline her and cave in to her, which is why she is spoiled.

I have no room to talk , Idont get to see my kids much , so when I do , I am a very soft touch , but there are other ways of taking care of a spoiled child then hitting them ..... specially girls , last thing you want ot do is raise them to think it is ok if they get hit for being bad ...... Some men out there hit women .......

DomCasual
06-28-2009, 10:14 PM
QFT.

Spanking is physical abuse. It is an abuse of power on the part of the parent or caregiver. It shames and humiliates the child and teaches him that violence is an acceptable form of conflict resolution in personal relationships.

Do you have kids? (I'm asking that sincerely - I honestly don't know.)

I think it would be interesting to know how many of the eight that voted "no" actually have kids.

I am in that group. I would have emphatically said before I had kids that there was no way I would have ever spanked them. Logically, it goes completely against reason. As an adult, I don't handle disagreements with physical confrontation. In business, one would never discipline an employee with corporal punishment. It just makes no sense.

Then you have kids, and the lines seem to get a lot more blurred. There have been times when I really considered spanking my son. There were a few times when I almost anguished over it. And finally, there was one time that I actually did it. He went through a thing when he was about four where he would haul off and smack his mom if she told him something he didn't want to hear. It was interesting - he would never do it with me. But it got to the point where it was just what he did with her. And it got to where it would hurt, if he caught her off guard, and nailed her in the face. I finally told him that if he wanted to do it that way, he could expect it to be reciprocated - that I would spank him the next time he did it. I also went over with him the concept of chivalry, and how he was expected to look after his mother, any sisters he might end up having, and ultimately, his wife and daughters.

So, I figured the mere threat of a spanking would serve as a preventative. It didn't, and I was faced with the horror of either having to follow through with my threat and do something I was completely not prepared to do; or make the situation worse by doing nothing. I seriously struggled with it, and finally decided to spank him. And I figured if I was going to do it, I was going to make it count. He got three well-placed, firm smacks in the butt. We actually set a time for the spanking, so he would have time to think about it.

It worked wonders for the problem. He never hit her again. I almost had to go to therapy over it. I felt (and still feel) that I had betrayed him in some way. And while one could argue it achieved its purpose, I think it achieved short-term gains at the expense of long-term trust. I have never done it again, and am careful never to even threaten it.

I guess the point of all of that is that it's a complicated issue. I do think there are some extremely rare times when it is probably the best choice. Running out in traffic is an example that's often used - you want their attention. You want to be heard, loud and clear. But as a general rule, I think it's easily avoidable.

Popps
06-28-2009, 10:18 PM
BTW Popps, I've been meaning to ask you, is your avy from the cover of the book by David Sedaris "when you are engulfed in flames", or are you a van gogh fan?

Van Gogh fan. That's always been one of my favorites. I just love the story behind it.

Meck77
06-28-2009, 10:28 PM
Wow Dom that's deep. The results of this poll are clear. People are ok with spanking. Don't be so hard on yourself. I'm sure your son will someday look back and say "I deserved to be punished for smacking my mom".

SoCalBronco
06-28-2009, 10:46 PM
I was spanked quite often by my Mom, but never by my Dad. It sort of worked, although I wouldn't do it to my own kids if I ever had kids. That's not necessarily because of any belief that its never proper, but more just on my own personality. I am very introverted and hate confrontation (despite some of my posts seeming to the contrary :) ). If I got married, the wife would probably have to be the disciplinarian.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
06-28-2009, 11:49 PM
Do you have kids? (I'm asking that sincerely - I honestly don't know.)

No - although I've been in a relationship where I assumed the role of step dad. I also worked with troubled kids and teens in a professional capacity for many years (putting an undergraduate Psych degree to use.)

As an adult, I don't handle disagreements with physical confrontation. In business, one would never discipline an employee with corporal punishment. It just makes no sense.

That's a very good point, and it raises an important moral question, i.e., why would we treat a child in a manner that was different from the way we would treat a friend, co-worker, spouse, or other adult peer when it comes to respect for physical boundaries or "personal sovereignty," if you will?

For me, the short answer is that we have evolved as a civilization, but we still have a long way to go. That is, our Western civilization has evolved from decidedly patriarchal roots. Specifically, it wasn't that long ago that children (and women) were regarded as chattel (i.e., we believed we owned children) adult men were free to use, abuse, and kick around any way they saw fit (with no intervention or accountability on the part of the larger community.) Children were essentially seen as "less than," i.e., less important, and/or less worthy of respect than adults in the pecking order.



Then you have kids, and the lines seem to get a lot more blurred. There have been times when I really considered spanking my son. There were a few times when I almost anguished over it. And finally, there was one time that I actually did it. He went through a thing when he was about four where he would haul off and smack his mom if she told him something he didn't want to hear. It was interesting - he would never do it with me. But it got to the point where it was just what he did with her. And it got to where it would hurt, if he caught her off guard, and nailed her in the face. I finally told him that if he wanted to do it that way, he could expect it to be reciprocated - that I would spank him the next time he did it. I also went over with him the concept of chivalry, and how he was expected to look after his mother, any sisters he might end up having, and ultimately, his wife and daughters.

So, I figured the mere threat of a spanking would serve as a preventative. It didn't, and I was faced with the horror of either having to follow through with my threat and do something I was completely not prepared to do; or make the situation worse by doing nothing. I seriously struggled with it, and finally decided to spank him. And I figured if I was going to do it, I was going to make it count. He got three well-placed, firm smacks in the butt. We actually set a time for the spanking, so he would have time to think about it.

It worked wonders for the problem. He never hit her again. I almost had to go to therapy over it. I felt (and still feel) that I had betrayed him in some way. And while one could argue it achieved its purpose, I think it achieved short-term gains at the expense of long-term trust. I have never done it again, and am careful never to even threaten it.

I guess the point of all of that is that it's a complicated issue. I do think there are some extremely rare times when it is probably the best choice. Running out in traffic is an example that's often used - you want their attention. You want to be heard, loud and clear. But as a general rule, I think it's easily avoidable.

I think that for people who are trying to go about parenting in a conscious way, conflicts between instinct/conditioning and the rational/enlightened side of human nature arise often. For example, I was raised in an era when spanking children was still considered normal, socially acceptable, and even desirable. Although I don't believe in spanking (for reasons stated previously) I have still had to fight the impulse to spank or lash out physically a child on some occasions. No matter how enlightened we become, we can't completely undo all those years of evolution (or our own personal history.) All we can do is apologize to kids and be accountable on those occasions when we screw up.

Bronco Yoda
07-01-2009, 12:47 AM
If more parents spanked their kids then my wife probably wouldn't feel the need to now home school our kids.

TDmvp
07-01-2009, 12:50 AM
If more parents spanked their kids then my wife probably wouldn't feel the need to now home school our kids.

:thumbs: and rep ...

broncocalijohn
07-01-2009, 01:06 AM
I use the cold shower treatment. My oldest, who is 6, feels hardly any pain so he pisses me off when i can see he is enjoying the fact that it doesnt bother him. I crank it eskimo cold and then he counts faster to 60. One day he will find out that giving a cold bath is worse than a spanking. We do all of them; timeouts, spankings and the cold shower. You cant hit your kids for every infraction they do. Sometimes sticking them in a chair works as it separates them from the activity that got them in trouble.

dbfan21
07-01-2009, 06:04 AM
Does anyone remember getting in trouble and mom would say go to your room and ( wait till your father gets home) you just sat in your room dreading the sound of your dad car pulling up the driveway.

QFT! My dad would use a plastic paint stirrer. That thing has small holes in it and would sting like nobody's business. It did not take many mess-up's for me to learn my lesson.

I have two kids (4 & 3 years old). I spank only when necessary, like when they are just being obnoxious or they do something that poses danger to themselves (ie running in the parking lot or the neighborhood roads). We normally use a ping pong paddle.

Recently, my wife and I took a class called 'Love & Logic'. If you YouTube it, you can see some previews of how they discipline kids. We have been administering this for about 2 months now and it is working really well. I was not much of a beliver at first...very skeptical. But after the first week of giving them tough love, they responded in major ways.

At the end of the day, nothing striaghtens out a kid's bad attitude like a few swats to the heiney!

bronco militia
07-01-2009, 07:16 AM
a combination of spankings and TO's work

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 07:27 AM
It should be ok to spank all kids as long as you have passed a course in kid management. I mean even other peoples kids!!!!!!! You know like if you don't have any but you would still like to spank some punks.

Beantown Bronco
07-01-2009, 07:31 AM
Not only is it ok to spank your kids, it should be encouraged.....even when they are behaving. You've got to keep those little b@stards on their toes at all times IMO.

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 07:31 AM
My dad used his belt but I only got it twice my whole childhood. My dad used really good talks, not being able to use your toys, see your friends etc depending on age, but when we did something really really bad he would spank with the belt. Can't remember ever seeing sister get it but my older brother for sure LOL. I think as younger child he mellowed a tad by me but still got his point across.

My dad had a lot of patience, but not a lot of patience for us kids being bad, but not if we showed dishonesty or cruelty, for those things he came down pretty hard.

Now if we got caught lighting firecrackers, being in fair fights, doing normal stupid kid stuff like not listening to mom, doing chores or stuff, he never used physical punishment.

kamakazi_kal
07-01-2009, 07:32 AM
after some good spankings ...... it just takes a look.

Kids don't fear penalty anymore...

Then again some people think Ghostbuster will somehow corrupt your childs mind so who freaking knows ..... it's become a very PC world.

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 07:32 AM
Not only is it ok to spank your kids, it should be encouraged.....even when they are behaving. You've got to keep those little b@stards on their toes at all times IMO.

Not to mention kids always tricking you. They get away with so much its good to make them think they don't. You come into the room and say I don't know what you kids think your dad is but I'm not stupid. I know exactly what you have been up to. Now come take your spanking and we won't speak of it again.

Of course you don't know.......but the little punks do!!!

bronco militia
07-01-2009, 07:34 AM
I enjoy spanking my wife.

wrong thread, perv!

:rofl:

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 07:34 AM
a combination of spankings and TO's work

EVery kid in kidom knows that a timeout not near as bad as a spanking!! Hell don't you remember being a kid anymore? ;D

Not to mention some kids have red eyes!!!!!!! Red I tell you!!!!!!

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 07:35 AM
If more parents spanked their kids then my wife probably wouldn't feel the need to now home school our kids.

Or you could send the kids to military school and have more time to spank the wife, either way I guess.

vancejohnson82
07-01-2009, 07:35 AM
I got it probably three or four times my entire childhood....and it was for the most extreme misbehavior....and it worked

it may not work for all children, but it did for me, hence the "yes"

I've seen too many parents using "time out" approaches where the kid just laughs it off...because if talking back and stealing get the same punishment, then there really is no way to distinguish how bad the offense was

bronco militia
07-01-2009, 07:37 AM
EVery kid in kidom knows that a timeout not near as bad as a spanking!! Hell don't you remember being a kid anymore? ;D

Not to mention some kids have red eyes!!!!!!! Red I tell you!!!!!!

LOL......word, man!

I blistered my 4 year old son's little butt last night...he threw our new puppy down the stairs.

the punishment has to fit the crime

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 07:37 AM
:thumbs: and rep ...

You know what though some of the worst kids get spanked all the time, its all the get. IMO the best kids are the ones parents get to feel good about themselves. Bad kids IMO just have issues usually.

Also I know some really good people who just have a rotten kid. Like they have 4, did a great job with all them, but one just never got it. Not sure if its always parents fault. I really believe some people just wired wrong from the start but I also agree its probably mostly about the environment parents create for kids.

I sure had some good ones.

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 07:41 AM
LOL......word, man!

I blistered my 4 year old son's little butt last night...he threw our new puppy down the stairs.

the punishment has to fit the crime

Yeah thigs like cruelty towards animals or other people my dad came down hard on me for. You have to because those things are so much more important then your kid maybe having a problem doing his chores, or talking back to mom etc etc. I see parents go nuts over not listening to exactly what they say, then let kid be mean to some other kid and not do anything.

I think that is a huge problem with a lot of parents. Now I admit I am not a parent but I have observed that before. Johnny doesn't mow lawn or do chores dad gets all pissed and spanks that crap out of him for not listening. But same kid beats the hell out of some other kid showing no mercy and the dad is not near as upset. Some kids are just plain mean, I see it at the schools that I have helped in the music programs at.

I think sometimes also we forget just what a brutal place the schoolyard can be. It's like the kid version of the pen.

JJG
07-01-2009, 09:21 AM
That's a very good point, and it raises an important moral question, i.e., why would we treat a child in a manner that was different from the way we would treat a friend, co-worker, spouse, or other adult peer when it comes to respect for physical boundaries or "personal sovereignty," if you will?


Im not a parent, but I think there is a pretty distinct difference between co-workers and your children. A relationship with co-workers is one of equal respect, where the relationship with your kids is clearly a position of authority(and unconditional love).

It is not your job to raise your co-workers or to teach them how to behave. Its assumed that they are adults and will act accordingly. If they don't, I dont have much power, to change their actions (unless it poses a direct threat to someone), outside of trying to reason with them, or to simply not associate with them in any way outside of the professional setting.

Your children, on the other hand, do not know how to act as an adult, be polite, behave in social settings, etc. They don't completely have the ability to reason, or understand why something is good or bad, right or wrong. It is the parents responsibility to teach this, and help them become responsible, well rounded adults.

I don't think spaking is always the best way, but it does have its place. There is a pretty thin line between spaking and abuse that parents need to be aware of. Personally, I would error on the not spaking side, but Im not at all against spanking.

SportinOne
07-01-2009, 09:57 AM
If people want to spank their kids, fine. Just don't hurt them to the point where they are REALLY afraid of you. Send a message, whatever, but don't hurt 'em. Why would making your children afraid of you ever be a good thing? Then again, it depends on your goal. If you are training your kids to be authority fearing sheep then I guess I see your point. If you want them to be yes-people all their lives, then go for it. It could also backfire and the kid could turn into a complete rebel without a cause.. just met a guy like that last week.. it wasn't pretty.

The other alternative would be to read a book or two about parenting and you will be amazed at how simple it is to make things happen without violent contact.

On another note: I've heard and read that the number one thing that all bad parents have in common is a dissatisfaction with their own lives that they take out on their children either emotionally, physically, or both. Supposedly, if you are in a healthy and content state of being while raising your kids they are much more likely to grow up that way as well. Be careful not to confuse economic success with emotional satisfaction, obviously...

I really just think that each parent should have to take a class on child development at some point during that 9 month wait, maybe just a 1, 2, or 3 day class. A book list could be distributed and some very simple things could be taught. After that, they can either use that knowledge or do things their own way... but at least then they know.

DomCasual
07-01-2009, 10:00 AM
Not only is it ok to spank your kids, it should be encouraged.....even when they are behaving. You've got to keep those little b@stards on their toes at all times IMO.

See, I consider an occasional unprovoked smack to be a shot across the bow.

Nothing wrong with a shot across the bow? Am I right? Heck, the North Koreans do it, and they don't seem to get in trouble.

SportinOne
07-01-2009, 10:02 AM
I think sometimes also we forget just what a brutal place the schoolyard can be. It's like the kid version of the pen.

Haha, I've never thought about it that way. It's so true. I remember in 1st grade I was surrounded by about 4 guys that wanted to beat me up because i was tan skinned (half hispanic, grew up in wisconsin... :egbgb: ) Anyway, my "crew" arrived just in time and nothing ever happened. Later, post-pen years, I would become friends with all of the guys that tried to jump me.

OABB
07-01-2009, 10:08 AM
The real question is, is it o.k. to spank other people's kids?

kamakazi_kal
07-01-2009, 10:08 AM
I think people without experience raising a child day in and day out can't really have an understanding ...... you think you know but cha don't.

Kids are smart. They will take advantage if possible or if the punishment is seems "worth" it. Knowing pain is a possibility is sometimes enough to make'um think twice.

richpjr
07-01-2009, 10:22 AM
I have no qualms about spanking, but rarely needed to do so.

My sister didn't spank her kids - she used this punishment on her boys: they loved their XBox and Nintendo systems. Whenever they did something wrong, they were on gaming timeout. She would then start playing their saved games on the system and delibrately screw everything up and playing really bad while they watched. They would be squirming and yelling, "No mom no, don't do that. Argh!" It was amazing how effective that was on them!

Beantown Bronco
07-01-2009, 12:36 PM
I recently adopted an alternative punishment when the numerous spankings I was giving the kiddies just weren't cutting it. I make them eat a bowl of chadta's atomic meatballs.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=60709

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-01-2009, 02:31 PM
Im not a parent, but I think there is a pretty distinct difference between co-workers and your children. A relationship with co-workers is one of equal respect...

Why isn't the relationship between parent and child one of equal respect?

That was one of the questions I tried to raise in my last post.


....where the relationship with your kids is clearly a position of authority(and unconditional love).

The problem with this argument (insofar as it attempts to justify spanking) is that it equates authority with physical violence or the right to violate another human being's (yes, a child is a human being) physical boundaries.

There's a big difference, BTW, between physically restraining a child in the course of providing protection to that child (e.g., when the toddler tries to walk out into the busy street, touch the hot burner, put his finger in the light socket, etc.) vs. striking a child in a punitive manner.



It is not your job to raise your co-workers or to teach them how to behave. Its assumed that they are adults and will act accordingly. If they don't, I dont have much power, to change their actions (unless it poses a direct threat to someone), outside of trying to reason with them, or to simply not associate with them in any way outside of the professional setting.

Your children, on the other hand, do not know how to act as an adult, be polite, behave in social settings, etc. They don't completely have the ability to reason, or understand why something is good or bad, right or wrong. It is the parents responsibility to teach this, and help them become responsible, well rounded adults.

The foregone conclusion here is that spanking a child is somehow effective (or even indispensable) in teaching the aforementioned behaviors, reasoning/cognitive abilities, social skills, etc., to children.

Others have made this same claim without offering any evidence to support it.

Some (not you) have even gone so far as to imply that those children who are well-behaved are obviously the ones who have been spanked while those children who are ill-behaved have obviously never been spanked (as if spanking is the only effective means of socializing a child.)

I don't think spaking is always the best way, but it does have its place. There is a pretty thin line between spaking and abuse that parents need to be aware of. Personally, I would error on the not spaking side, but Im not at all against spanking.

As I said before, it's pretty difficult to give an example of a problem for which spanking a child is the best or only solution. I would need to hear such an example in order to be convinced.

Beantown Bronco
07-01-2009, 02:35 PM
As I said before, it's pretty difficult to give an example of a problem for which spanking a child is the best or only solution. I would need to hear such an example in order to be convinced.

What if they told you the Lakers sucked @ass.....or proclaimed that W was the best president in history?

JJJ
07-01-2009, 02:37 PM
Got no kids. Please feel free to smack those little brats all you want.

cutthemdown
07-01-2009, 02:38 PM
What if they told you the Lakers sucked @ass.....or proclaimed that W was the best president in history?

he would probably just make them listen to hours of fusion jazz by Tribal Tech until they couldn't take it anymore!!!!!

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-01-2009, 02:41 PM
What if they told you the Lakers sucked @ass.....or proclaimed that W was the best president in history?

Whew!

That might make me have to re-assess my position.



j/k ;)

Moon§hiner
07-01-2009, 06:29 PM
I guess the point of all of that is that it's a complicated issue. I do think there are some extremely rare times when it is probably the best choice. Running out in traffic is an example that's often used - you want their attention. You want to be heard, loud and clear. But as a general rule, I think it's easily avoidable.

Young children have no fathom of what death is. When my daughter was 4, I lived in the country along a highway with lots of trucks. (Didn't help that I had read Pet Semetary either.) Instead of physical punishment when she wandered near the road, I took her for a ride one Sunday morning and showed her a dead coyote that had been there for a few days with bugs crawling out of it's eyes and mouth and azz. Stopped the truck, had her get out with me and said "That is Dead. That is what happens when I say if you get hit, you will be dead. It got hit by a truck and now it is gone." My wife thought I was cruel, but it got the point across. My daughter reminds me of that ride to this day.

lazarus4444
07-01-2009, 07:53 PM
I voted yes it's ok. Honestly, too many kids have no respect for authority these days and it leads to bull**** like (and this really happened) kids refusing to take tests at school and they get to go on to the next grade anyway with no consequence from the parent.

There are waaaay too many numerous examples. I was spanked and i'm not psychologically scarred for life or anything. I mean, give me a break. All this civil bull**** is going to lead to our civilization collapsing because the next generation are a bunch of pussies and can't stand up for themselves.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-01-2009, 09:15 PM
I voted yes it's ok. Honestly, too many kids have no respect for authority these days and it leads to bull**** like (and this really happened) kids refusing to take tests at school and they get to go on to the next grade anyway with no consequence from the parent.

You really think hitting a child instills respect - either for himself or for others?

Are you sure you're not confusing respect with fear?


I was spanked and i'm not psychologically scarred for life or anything.

An experience doesn't have to scar you for life in order to be harmful or damaging to some degree or other.


I mean, give me a break. All this civil bull**** is going to lead to our civilization collapsing because the next generation are a bunch of pussies and can't stand up for themselves.

You seem to be suggesting that hitting children is the best or only way to socialize or civilize them (or that if children aren't hit or spanked then they will inevitably grow up to be "a bunch of pussies.")

Where is the sociological/historical evidence to support this argument?

Many of the proponents of spanking seem to look at child rearing in black-or-white terms, i.e., as if there were only two polar alternatives: authoritarianism or permissiveness. A healthy approach lies somewhere in the middle, IMO.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-01-2009, 09:25 PM
For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence (http://www.amazon.com/Your-Own-Good-Child-Rearing-Violence/dp/0374522693/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246508613&sr=1-1) by Alice Miller

Spare the Child: The Religious Roots of Punishment and the Psychological Impact of Physical Abuse (http://www.amazon.com/Spare-Child-Religious-Punishment-Psychological/dp/0679733388/ref=sid_dp_dp) by Philip J. Greven

The Body Never Lies: The Lingering Effects of Cruel Parenting (http://www.amazon.com/Body-Never-Lies-Lingering-Parenting/dp/0393060659/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246508613&sr=1-6) by Alice Miller and Andrew Jenkins

Thou Shalt Not Be Aware: Society's Betrayal of the Child (http://www.amazon.com/Thou-Shalt-Not-Be-Aware/dp/0374525439/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246508613&sr=1-3) by Alice Miller, Hildegarde Hannum, Hunter Hannum, and Lloyd deMause

TDmvp
07-01-2009, 10:08 PM
L.A. , fear and respect are in some ways tied ...

Lets take the police and laws , the only reason people obey and respect them is fear of jail ...

I think really there is different types of respect ... all needed ...


Lets take a small child who doesn't yet understand NO ... and they want to stick something in a light socket , or pull the dogs tail or something like that ... A million times NO won't fix what a swat on the tail will ... and it's for the child's safety and they respect the rule on the fear of the swat ...


Beating a child is another story ...

richpjr
07-01-2009, 10:28 PM
For Your Own Good: Hidden Cruelty in Child-Rearing and the Roots of Violence (http://www.amazon.com/Your-Own-Good-Child-Rearing-Violence/dp/0374522693/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246508613&sr=1-1) by Alice Miller

Spare the Child: The Religious Roots of Punishment and the Psychological Impact of Physical Abuse (http://www.amazon.com/Spare-Child-Religious-Punishment-Psychological/dp/0679733388/ref=sid_dp_dp) by Philip J. Greven

The Body Never Lies: The Lingering Effects of Cruel Parenting (http://www.amazon.com/Body-Never-Lies-Lingering-Parenting/dp/0393060659/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246508613&sr=1-6) by Alice Miller and Andrew Jenkins

Thou Shalt Not Be Aware: Society's Betrayal of the Child (http://www.amazon.com/Thou-Shalt-Not-Be-Aware/dp/0374525439/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1246508613&sr=1-3) by Alice Miller, Hildegarde Hannum, Hunter Hannum, and Lloyd deMause

Of course, there is always the other side of the coin:


Is Spanking Harmful to Children?

By Kalman M. Heller, Ph.D.

In the wake of increased concerns about violence in our society many child development professionals have targeted spanking as a significant cause of violent behavior. The concept is that violence begets violence and that spanking is a violent act by parents. Those who take this position have pointed to research that shows a correlation between spanking and aggressive or violent behavior in adolescence and early adulthood. This correlation (the degree to which two events or factors occur in two compared groups) has been interpreted as proof of causality but as I am about to explain, causality requires very different proof. This is a critical issue not only because it is important to give parents correct information about research results but also because in some societies or segments of societies, laws are being passed to ban spanking, bringing the government into people’s homes and criminalizing the actions of millions of parents.

Dr. Diana Baumrind is a noted developmental psychologist who has been doing highly respected research on children and families for a few decades. Although she does not advocate the use of spanking, she believed that the research being used to prohibit it was flawed and set out to do one of the best designed, most thorough pieces of research that I have seen. The key issue as noted above is that just because two or more behaviors may be correlated, e.g., children who are read to more when young have higher I.Q’s, doesn’t mean that one behavior, the reading, causes the other, the higher intelligence. That’s because many other factors could actually be the causal one’s and need to be controlled for in order to conclude what is truly causal. In this example, factors such as the parents’ intelligence (I.Q. is at least partly genetically determined) and poverty (several aspects of growing up in very poor homes and neighborhoods result in poorer performance on IQ tests) may be the causal factors. Reading to children may simply be more associated with growing up in a non-poverty home.

Thus, Dr. Baumrind set out to try to separate simple associations with spanking from actual causal factors of future aggressive or violent behavior. She followed a large group of middle class children from early childhood to adolescence. By not including poverty families it was easier to isolate significant issues because poverty brings many complicating factors into play including the difficulties in following these families for extended periods of time. She used the concept of “Normative Physical Punishment (NPP)” to refer to spanking defined as “striking the child on the buttocks or extremities with an open hand without inflicting physical injury with the intention to modify behavior.” Dr. Baumrind believed there was such a thing as normal usage of spanking that would prove not to be harmful and indeed that is what her research ultimately showed.

First, however, her data also showed a correlation between spanking and behavioral problems in later years. In families where spanking was never used there was less aggressive behavior as the children reached adolescence and older. But when she removed the data from about 5% of the “spanking families” whose use of spanking was identified as abusive, there was no significant difference in outcomes. Furthermore when she accounted for the temperament of the children, there was also no difference between the two groups. These are very important findings, especially the latter issue of temperament. Those children who were born with difficult to manage personalities elicited more spanking from their parents. Parenting is a two-way process and children influence how they are parented.

The research also suggested that most spanking is done with preschool children, especially toddlers. This may be partly due to the fact that very young children have limited language skills. They often cannot explain what is bothering them. They are more difficult to reason with. Also very young children are much more demanding of parental attention. Spanking is most often used when parents perceive risk to the child such as touching something hot or playing with something breakable and more than a “No!” and removal seems needed for emphasis. But there is also the frustration level, especially when there are two or more preschoolers in the family and the caretaking parent gets burned out.

Thus the research concludes that in most of the families where spanking was used, where it was one of many forms of discipline, and it was not used to a degree that the researchers judged abusive, spanking did not produce negative outcomes in later years. Another key finding is that the effects of spanking are mediated by how the children perceive their parents, i.e., when the parents are experienced as loving and caring, spanking is perceived as a reasonable way to be treated. In fact, interviews with adolescents whose parents used NPP indicated that the teenagers not only gave positive reports about being spanked as part of their childhood but they also planned to use spanking with their own children.

Punishment should not be the dominant form of discipline. In fact, Baumrind’s research showed that extensive use of verbal criticism had as negative effect as overuse of punishment. We need to raise our children in loving environments, with as much consistency as possible in enforcing rules and limits, and rely more on positive reinforcements than negative ones. We need to convey that making mistakes is normal and not constantly be trying to ”fix” our children. But, it seems clear from this research, and my own three plus decades as a psychologist and parent, that normative use of spanking with young children is not harmful and may be used by parents as one aspect of discipline.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-01-2009, 10:52 PM
L.A. , fear and respect are in some ways tied ...

Lets take the police and laws , the only reason people obey and respect them is fear of jail ...

This is probably true for many people (maybe even most people in this culture) but some people actually do abide by laws (when the laws are just and/or genuinely in the best interest of society) because they have developed an innate sense of right and wrong (not just the fear of getting caught/punished.)

Spanking a kid doesn't give a kid a conscience - at best, it just instills a fear of authority, fear of getting caught, and/or a fear facing the consequences of inappropriate behaviors.


Lets take a small child who doesn't yet understand NO ... and they want to stick something in a light socket , or pull the dogs tail or something like that ... A million times NO won't fix what a swat on the tail will ... and it's for the child's safety and they respect the rule on the fear of the swat ...

That's what those little plastic child protection things you stick in the wall sockets are for. ;)

On the real, physically restraining the child and using a firm tone of voice (one that adequately conveys the seriousness of the situation) is enough - no need to hit him.


Beating a child is another story ...

It's just a matter of degree.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-01-2009, 10:54 PM
Of course, there is always the other side of the coin:

Yep - name any societal vice, and you can usually find some study or other that attempts to rationalize it.

lazarus4444
07-01-2009, 11:04 PM
You really think hitting a child instills respect - either for himself or for others?

Are you sure you're not confusing respect with fear?



An experience doesn't have to scar you for life in order to be harmful or damaging to some degree or other.



You seem to be suggesting that hitting children is the best or only way to socialize or civilize them (or that if children aren't hit or spanked then they will inevitably grow up to be "a bunch of pussies.")

Where is the sociological/historical evidence to support this argument?

Many of the proponents of spanking seem to look at child rearing in black-or-white terms, i.e., as if there were only two polar alternatives: authoritarianism or permissiveness. A healthy approach lies somewhere in the middle, IMO.

Listen. This is one of those subject people will never agree on. But, spanking a child with an open hand on the buttocks is not beating a child. Beating a child is using a closed fist and "firing for effect" so to speak (and no, i am not a proponent of that which in my mind is definitly child abuse). There is a difference. All this psycho babble to me is mostly bull**** and as a society we are worse off for all this PC crap.

Spider
07-01-2009, 11:09 PM
The real question is, is it o.k. to spank other people's kids?

if anyone I mean anyone lays a hand on one of my kids .... they better pray to whatever god motivates them through life , I cause I will beat the living hell out of them , and that isnt up for debate .......... No one touches my kids but me and my wife , no if ands or buts about it

Los Broncos
07-01-2009, 11:13 PM
if anyone I mean anyone lays a hand on one of my kids .... they better pray to whatever god motivates them through life , I cause I will beat the living hell out of them , and that isnt up for debate .......... No one touches my kids but me and my wife , no if ands or buts about it

Yeah really, I watch a friend of mines kids once and a while.

He tells me to spank or do whatever I need to do if they get out of line.

Not even close, I never spanked or hit my own son, why would I do it to his kids.

Spider
07-01-2009, 11:15 PM
even if it was my best friend , look those are my kids , thats my family , family comes first , I am Dad, my kids **** up , you come and see me , I will deal with them .......Thats my job , not youres ......... I would never ever dream of hitting or correcting someone elses kids ...... your kid ****s up , I am not going after your kid , I am coming to you ...........

Spider
07-01-2009, 11:17 PM
Yeah really, I watch a friend of mines kids once and a while.

He tells me to spank or do whatever I need to do if they get out of line.

Not even close, I never spanked or hit my own son, why would I do it to his kids.

Now I would trust you with my kids , but my kids know they **** up there is a price to be paid .........

Spider
07-01-2009, 11:21 PM
Yeah really, I watch a friend of mines kids once and a while.

He tells me to spank or do whatever I need to do if they get out of line.

Not even close, I never spanked or hit my own son, why would I do it to his kids.

Now I would trust you with my kids , but my kids know they **** up there is a price to be paid

Los Broncos
07-01-2009, 11:22 PM
Now I would trust you with my kids , but my kids know they **** up there is a price to be paid .........

Same with his kids, they are pretty bad.

But there are other ways to discipline a child.

I just give a look and they know.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-01-2009, 11:35 PM
All this psycho babble to me is mostly bull****....


When it comes to psychologists, shrinks, the self-help movement, etc., I'll be the first to admit that there is a lot of silly bullsh*t out there, a lot of charlatans and snake oil salesmen. Hell, I would even go so far as to say that the therapists and shrinks in this culture who actually know their ass from a gopher hole and who do good work are the exception rather than the rule.

However, the "baby out with the bath water" mindset closes the door to the few who actually have some real wisdom to offer.


....and as a society we are worse off for all this PC crap.

I never suggested that living an examined life required political correctness.

On the contrary, it usually requires some distance/separation from the herd.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-01-2009, 11:40 PM
Young children have no fathom of what death is. When my daughter was 4, I lived in the country along a highway with lots of trucks. (Didn't help that I had read Pet Semetary either.) Instead of physical punishment when she wandered near the road, I took her for a ride one Sunday morning and showed her a dead coyote that had been there for a few days with bugs crawling out of it's eyes and mouth and azz. Stopped the truck, had her get out with me and said "That is Dead. That is what happens when I say if you get hit, you will be dead. It got hit by a truck and now it is gone." My wife thought I was cruel, but it got the point across. My daughter reminds me of that ride to this day.

:thumbsup:

Anybody can knee-jerk on auto-pilot and paddle a child on the butt.

What you did was pretty creative and thoughtful, IMO.

It obviously left a lasting impression.

richpjr
07-01-2009, 11:50 PM
Yep - name any societal vice, and you can usually find some study or other that attempts to rationalize it.

This argument also works two ways. One could claim the same thing about the studies you cited. There is no absolute here - some people feel differently about this and there is no way to absolutely prove either side.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-02-2009, 12:39 AM
This argument also works two ways. One could claim the same thing about the studies you cited.

But the studies I cited aren't attempts to rationalize acts of violence.

There is no absolute here - some people feel differently about this and there is no way to absolutely prove either side.

Sure there is.

It's called "the body of empirical evidence," i.e., that punishment doesn't work (or, at best, only works as long as the punishment and/or punisher are present.)

Archer81
07-02-2009, 12:46 AM
There is a difference between a pop on the ass and a beatdown. I dont think it weakens the bonds between a parent and their kids if the parent acts like a parent. Sometimes the only message that gets through is a physical reprimand for wrong behavior.

:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
07-02-2009, 06:46 AM
Let's put it this way:

I think it's safe to say that all of our parents' generations were probably spanked when they were little. That's just the way it was. Now, the perception is that parents have gotten softer and tried "other punishment" in lieu of spankings. Which generation is more out of control and disrespectful? Our parents or the children nowadays?

Mountain Bronco
07-02-2009, 09:04 AM
Kids now are a bunch of spoiled little ****s. Medals for last place, graduations for third grade, here is a cookie you little **** tard. They are all entitled to the bone. I have recent college graduates in ..... business management asking me for jobs with 6 figure sallaries in management positions. It is hilarious.

Something has to change if bringing back the 2X4 to the ass is what it is, so be it.

I was perfect though, so I was never spanked.

richpjr
07-02-2009, 03:38 PM
But the studies I cited aren't attempts to rationalize acts of violence.


Agree. They are attempts to rationalize that spanking a child doesn't work and leads to problems later on in life. The study I cited came to a completely different conclusion.

Bronx33
07-02-2009, 03:44 PM
Ok lets ramp this thread up! how many folks use tire irons, shovels and the nearest blunt object thats throwable? ( show of hands)? these kids need to learn fear!! this will be taught in out new socialist society!!

lazarus4444
07-02-2009, 05:08 PM
Hell, I would even go so far as to say that the therapists and shrinks in this culture who actually know their ass from a gopher hole and who do good work are the exception rather than the rule.

However, the "baby out with the bath water" mindset closes the door to the few who actually have some real wisdom to offer.


Now i agree with you here. There are some truly talented people out there but they are the exception and not the rule. Also, i think open hand spanking on buttocks is fine but like another poster suggested earlier in this thread, it CANNOT be done out of anger. It must be a calculated and measured response otherwise you may end up with problems down the road.

TheReverend
07-02-2009, 05:16 PM
I voted "depends":

I have a little girl, and she's very emotional. When I get mad at her she'll run off and pout and punish herself. In very bad situations, I throw her ass in her bed and unplug the TV and make her go to bed (she hates sleeping). Never have hit her outside of playing and teaching her how to fight, and she's amazingly well behaved, especially for being super hyper.

That being said, I was a little boy and I've seen other little boys. I think if I had one he'd be getting smacked around damn near constantly, because I know that's the only way I learned.

richpjr
01-06-2010, 08:43 PM
Bump:


Study: Spanked Children May Grow Up to Be Happier, More Successful
Monday, January 04, 2010

Young children spanked by their parents may grow up to be happier and more successful than those who have never been hit, a study has found.

According to the research, children spanked up to the age of 6 were likely as teenagers to perform better at school and were more likely to carry out volunteer work and to want to go to college than their peers who had never been physically disciplined.

But children who continued to be spanked into adolescence showed clear behavioral problems.

Children’s groups and lawmakers in the UK have tried several times to have physical chastisement by parents outlawed, the Times of London reported. They claim it is a form of abuse that causes long-term harm to children and say banning it would send a clear signal that violence is unacceptable.

However, Marjorie Gunnoe, professor of psychology at Calvin College in Grand Rapids, Michigan, said her study showed there was insufficient evidence to deny parents the freedom to choose how they discipline their children.

“The claims made for not spanking children fail to hold up. They are not consistent with the data,” said Gunnoe. “I think of spanking as a dangerous tool, but there are times when there is a job big enough for a dangerous tool. You just don’t use it for all your jobs.”

Research into the effects of spanking was previously hampered by the inability to find enough children who had never been spanked, given its past cultural acceptability.

But Gunnoe’s work drew on a study of 2,600 people, about a quarter of whom had never been physically chastised.

Archer81
01-06-2010, 10:30 PM
Oh offseason...How we have missed thee...

Rereading this thread, it dawned on me that I am lucky that my parents smacked me when I needed it. The last time my mother smacked me was when I was 16. It didnt hurt, it embarassed the **** out of me that I made my mother mad enough to bring the tiny hand of justice out of retirement. My dad stopped spanking my brothers and I and started using the index and middle fingers to the center of the chest to punctuate how angry/dissapointed/insanely pissed he was. In all honesty, I preferred the spanking. Fingers to the sternum ****ing hurts.

:Broncos:

Dr. Broncenstein
01-06-2010, 10:58 PM
Do you have kids? (I'm asking that sincerely - I honestly don't know.)

I think it would be interesting to know how many of the eight that voted "no" actually have kids.

I am in that group. I would have emphatically said before I had kids that there was no way I would have ever spanked them. Logically, it goes completely against reason. As an adult, I don't handle disagreements with physical confrontation. In business, one would never discipline an employee with corporal punishment. It just makes no sense.

Then you have kids, and the lines seem to get a lot more blurred. There have been times when I really considered spanking my son. There were a few times when I almost anguished over it. And finally, there was one time that I actually did it. He went through a thing when he was about four where he would haul off and smack his mom if she told him something he didn't want to hear. It was interesting - he would never do it with me. But it got to the point where it was just what he did with her. And it got to where it would hurt, if he caught her off guard, and nailed her in the face. I finally told him that if he wanted to do it that way, he could expect it to be reciprocated - that I would spank him the next time he did it. I also went over with him the concept of chivalry, and how he was expected to look after his mother, any sisters he might end up having, and ultimately, his wife and daughters.

So, I figured the mere threat of a spanking would serve as a preventative. It didn't, and I was faced with the horror of either having to follow through with my threat and do something I was completely not prepared to do; or make the situation worse by doing nothing. I seriously struggled with it, and finally decided to spank him. And I figured if I was going to do it, I was going to make it count. He got three well-placed, firm smacks in the butt. We actually set a time for the spanking, so he would have time to think about it.

It worked wonders for the problem. He never hit her again. I almost had to go to therapy over it. I felt (and still feel) that I had betrayed him in some way. And while one could argue it achieved its purpose, I think it achieved short-term gains at the expense of long-term trust. I have never done it again, and am careful never to even threaten it.

I guess the point of all of that is that it's a complicated issue. I do think there are some extremely rare times when it is probably the best choice. Running out in traffic is an example that's often used - you want their attention. You want to be heard, loud and clear. But as a general rule, I think it's easily avoidable.

I just started with this thread, and have to say this is one of the best off topic posts I've ever read here.