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View Full Version : hey Garcia ,remember me teling you about .


Spider
06-26-2009, 01:52 PM
Insurance companies ?
cah is going to wet his panties ...........
http://commerce.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Hearings.LiveStream&Hearing_id=6f02dcc8-ad5b-445c-81ca-36c9b06ebdd5
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/24/AR2009062401636.html
Senate Panel Hears of Health Insurers' Wrongs
Ex-Insider Testifies to 'Fear Tactics'


By David S. Hilzenrath
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 25, 2009

Health insurers have forced consumers to pay billions of dollars in medical bills that the insurers themselves should have paid, according to a report released yesterday by the staff of the Senate Commerce Committee.


The report was part of a multi-pronged assault on the credibility of private insurers by Commerce Committee Chairman John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.). It came at a time when Rockefeller, President Obama and others are seeking to offer a public alternative to private health plans as part of broad health-care reform legislation. Health insurers are doing everything they can to block the public option.

At a committee hearing yesterday, three health-care specialists testified that insurers go to great lengths to avoid responsibility for sick people, use deliberately incomprehensible documents to mislead consumers about their benefits, and sell "junk" policies that do not cover needed care. Rockefeller said he was exploring "why consumers get such a raw deal from their insurance companies."

The star witness at the hearing was a former public relations executive for major health insurers whose testimony boiled down to this: Don't trust the insurers.
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"The industry and its backers are using fear tactics, as they did in 1994, to tar a transparent and accountable -- publicly accountable -- health-care option," said Wendell Potter, who until early last year was vice president for corporate communications at the big insurer Cigna.

Potter said he worries "that the industry's charm offensive, which is the most visible part of duplicitous and well-financed PR and lobbying campaigns, may well shape reform in a way that benefits Wall Street far more than average Americans."

Insurers make paperwork confusing because "they realize that people will just simply give up and not pursue it" if they think they have been shortchanged, Potter said.

Sen. Mike Johanns (R-Neb.) questioned the government's ability to make matters clearer, saying federal regulation of mortgage disclosures has made the documents that borrowers encounter in real estate transactions "hopelessly complicated."

Potter's successor as spokesman for Cigna said the company strongly disagrees "with the suggestion that, motivated by profits, the insurance industry has deliberately attempted to confuse or unfairly treat covered individuals."

"At CIGNA we are committed to improving the current system," spokesman Chris Curran said by e-mail.

The report released yesterday alleges that insurers have systematically underpaid for out-of-network care. The issue had been brought to light previously in litigation, committee hearings and other investigations, including a probe by New York Attorney General Andrew M. Cuomo. But as politicians and interests groups clash over the current effort to overhaul the nation's health-care system, it took on new relevance.

Cuomo described it last year as "a scheme by health insurers to defraud consumers by manipulating reimbursement rates."

Many Americans pay higher premiums for the freedom to go outside an insurer's network of doctors and hospitals. When they do, insurers typically pay a percentage of what they call the "usual and customary" rates for the services. How insurers determine the usual rates had long been opaque to consumers and difficult if not impossible for them to challenge.

As it turns out, insurers typically used numbers from Ingenix, a wholly owned subsidiary of the big insurer UnitedHealth Group. Ingenix had an incentive to produce benchmarks that low-balled usual and customary rates and shifted costs from insurers to their customers, the report said.

Ingenix got its data from the same insurers that bought its benchmark information, the report said. Insurers that contributed information to Ingenix often "scrubbed" their data to remove high charges, and Ingenix further manipulated the numbers, removing valid high charges from its calculations, the report said.

Cuomo found that insurers under-reimbursed New York consumers by up to 28 percent, the report said. A dozen insurers have reached settlements agreeing to change their practices; UnitedHealth agreed to the largest payment, $50 million, to help a nonprofit organization set up a new database to replace Ingenix.

In March testimony to Rockefeller's committee, UnitedHealth chief executive Stephen J. Hemsley said UnitedHealth stands by "the integrity of the Ingenix data."

Ingenix performed an important function, Hemsley said, because paying whatever doctors charge "is simply not economically tenable."

orinjkrush
06-26-2009, 02:16 PM
the only people lower than banksters are "insurers". Worst of all bank insurers.
God help us when AIG and CIGNA merge.

Garcia Bronco
06-26-2009, 02:33 PM
Again...I can't stress this enough. Governemnt needs to enforce the contract and regulate what an insurer can put in the contract and when they can change the contract. This is basically Government, which has caused these issues by getting involved and not properly writing laws to protect the consumer.

Spider
06-26-2009, 03:09 PM
Again...I can't stress this enough. Governemnt needs to enforce the contract and regulate what an insurer can put in the contract and when they can change the contract. This is basically Government, which has caused these issues by getting involved and not properly writing laws to protect the consumer.

LOL .......I tried to tell you ......you defended these companies , i tried to tell you about people not being covered , etc .........

DBruleU
06-26-2009, 03:36 PM
I was in Casper a week ago Spider. As crappy as I remember it as a kid.

Spider
06-26-2009, 04:06 PM
I was in Casper a week ago Spider. As crappy as I remember it as a kid.

but we redid the AMMACO tank farm , turned it into a Nice golf course and .and ........ and ......well we planted a bunch of new grass

ghwk
06-26-2009, 05:20 PM
And yet some people will argue to death that a govt. sponsored program will be expensive and inefficient but don't acknowledge that we are getting screwed by the private sector constantly. When all competitors are in "collusion" with one another e.g. oil, health care, then the gov. has to step in for the little guy. I'm no Obama apologist but at least he isn't completely in bed with big business.

snowspot66
06-26-2009, 06:09 PM
Here's an honest question for both sides. Everybody cites the cost as one of the major problems to a system like Canada has or even our own version of it. Why can't we just phase out social security as we know it and instead funnel it to health care.

Nobody should be relying on it (SS) for retirement these days and the knowledge that your health care will be taken care of would allow people to spend their retirement money on something other than standing in line at the drug store.

It may not cover everything but it could go a long way and I think most people would feel that they are actually getting something for the money they put in instead of the constant feeling of kissing your money good bye.

Hell while we're at it we could eliminate the bloated bureaucracy of Medicare too. If everybody is covered we don't need 30 people to figure out the paper work to check if the patient is or isn't covered.

So what say you critics and supporters alike?

orinjkrush
06-26-2009, 06:22 PM
Captains of Industry....a few self proclaimed elite;
our Politically anointed Captains...a few self proclaimed elite;

the common denominator?

If you have "name recognition" for a candidate...vote for his/her opponent.

a train wreck is better than the FUBAR these idiots have imposed.

Spider
06-26-2009, 06:24 PM
Here's an honest question for both sides. Everybody cites the cost as one of the major problems to a system like Canada has or even our own version of it. Why can't we just phase out social security as we know it and instead funnel it to health care.

Nobody should be relying on it (SS) for retirement these days and the knowledge that your health care will be taken care of would allow people to spend their retirement money on something other than standing in line at the drug store.

It may not cover everything but it could go a long way and I think most people would feel that they are actually getting something for the money they put in instead of the constant feeling of kissing your money good bye.

Hell while we're at it would could eliminate the bloated bureaucracy of Medicare too. If everybody is covered we don't need 30 people to figure out the paper work to check if the patient is or isn't covered.

So what say you critics and supporters alike?

SS ....cut it huh , Medicare would go with everyone covered , But SS is a life line for alot of people .....

snowspot66
06-26-2009, 06:29 PM
Well you wouldn't just cut SS. You would phase it out over time. It would probably take 20 or even 30 years to do it. Maybe longer as the last remnants hang on. You don't want to **** people over who have been paying into it for 40 years and the like.

Spider
06-26-2009, 06:31 PM
Well you wouldn't just cut SS. You would phase it out over time. It would probably take 20 or even 30 years to do it. Maybe longer as the last remnants hang on. You don't want to **** people over who have been paying into it for 40 years and the like.

this would be up for debate and serious consideration ..........

That One Guy
06-27-2009, 01:18 PM
So why hasn't government saved us if this issue has been known for years? Where was government when the complaints of illegal activity were being made?

And this is a far cry from the claims being made before, dickhead, so don't go patting yourself on the back too hard.

Spider
06-27-2009, 01:26 PM
So why hasn't government saved us if this issue has been known for years? Where was government when the complaints of illegal activity were being made?

And this is a far cry from the claims being made before, dickhead, so don't go patting yourself on the back too hard.

No retard , This was about a convo me and GB had , but I knew you would wet your panties over it ........ But people are starting to see how full of **** you Bed wetters are .........Deal with it