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View Full Version : OT - Nuggets pickup Ty Lawson in NBA Draft


montrose
06-25-2009, 06:26 PM
Acquired from Timberwolves (#18 pick) for future 1st round pick of Bobcats.

Garcia Bronco
06-25-2009, 06:30 PM
Fyeah!

tsiguy96
06-25-2009, 06:31 PM
wait what did they give up?

BroncoDoug
06-25-2009, 06:32 PM
this is the perfect pickup for the nuggs... get anthony carter out of here!

footstepsfrom#27
06-25-2009, 06:33 PM
Another Patriot! ;D

http://imgcache.allposters.com/images/PHOTOFILE/AADR023.jpg

SouthStndJunkie
06-25-2009, 06:42 PM
Probably will be groomed to take over for Chauncey Billups in a few years.

Broncosfreak_56
06-25-2009, 06:45 PM
Awesome pickup. Lawson looked amazing in the NCAA championship game.

Memento
06-25-2009, 06:57 PM
Something tells me Karl will finally pay attention to a rook...

theAPAOps5
06-25-2009, 06:58 PM
Wow I didn't even watch thinking nothing would happen!

Man-Goblin
06-25-2009, 07:02 PM
Love Lawson. I watch a lot of UNC games, obviously, and I really like his chances of being a starter someday. I knew when Minny took him they were taking him for somebody. I'm glad it was the Nuggets!

Hopefully he can come in, stay healthy, and give them 15-20 minutes next year of smart basketball. Other than that, he just needs to soak up as much Chauncey as he can over the next couple years.

And he doesn't have to change team colors!

slyinky
06-25-2009, 07:08 PM
His style will be a great change of pace when he comes in for Billups.

summerdenver
06-25-2009, 07:46 PM
Are we going to keep him though? I thought i heard it on radio that Denver will try to trade Lawson?

24champ
06-25-2009, 07:49 PM
Can he make an inbound pass?

SouthStndJunkie
06-25-2009, 07:52 PM
At No. 34, the Nuggets selected Spain's Sergio Llull. The 21-year-old Llull has played in Spain's pro leagues since he was 17.

Man-Goblin
06-25-2009, 07:56 PM
At No. 34, the Nuggets selected Spain's Sergio Llull. The 21-year-old Llull has played in Spain's pro leagues since he was 17.

Probably a pick for someone else unless the guy plans on staying overseas for couple years.

bronco_boi_5280
06-25-2009, 07:58 PM
Love the Lawson move. Really hope they don't trade him.

tsiguy96
06-25-2009, 08:14 PM
the nba draft is the weirdest thing ever.

nuggest just SOLD their pick? how ****ing weird? why do NBA teams sell their picks for cash when they can use the player?

summerdenver
06-25-2009, 08:16 PM
Love the Lawson move. Really hope they don't trade him.

I may have heard it wrong - We actually traded the sergio kid. I am glad we kept Lawson. I would really really like to see us get rid of AC.

watermock
06-25-2009, 08:22 PM
Vitale likes the pick, for what that's worth.

SouthStndJunkie
06-25-2009, 08:28 PM
I may have heard it wrong - We actually traded the sergio kid. I am glad we kept Lawson. I would really really like to see us get rid of AC.

Looks like the Nuggets sent the Spaniard to the Rockets.

footstepsfrom#27
06-25-2009, 10:05 PM
That little dude has some quicks.

24champ
06-25-2009, 11:10 PM
why do NBA teams sell their picks for cash when they can use the player?

Because the players in this draft suck. Very weak class overall, I prefer next years draft.

Anyway, I like what Mitch has done for the Lakers in the draft.


#29 pick = $3M
not having guarrenteed 1st round salary = $1M x 2 (lux tax) = $2M
#42 pick = $1.5M

$6.5M + plus two 2011 2nd rounders

Mitch saved the Lakers over 6 mil. presumably that money is going to be put to re-signing Ariza and Odom. Hopefully we can upgrade the PG position...

montrose
06-25-2009, 11:46 PM
wait what did they give up?
The Nugz traded a future 1st round pick (lottery protected, I believe) that they got from the Bobcats in a previous trade.

Wow I didn't even watch thinking nothing would happen!
I had a feeling we'd make a move for Lawson. They were in love with him last year and with Chauncey's age and AC's suckiness, it makes sense. Listening to Warkentein on The Fan this week, he mentioned how deep the PG class was and how we'd have the ability to move into the 1st round - all the signs were there. I just read an article that the Nugz had him targeted since last year and were going to do everything within means to land him.

Love Lawson. I watch a lot of UNC games, obviously, and I really like his chances of being a starter someday. I knew when Minny took him they were taking him for somebody. I'm glad it was the Nuggets!
I had that same feeling, again because I expected us to land him and also because Min already took 2 PGs. As soon as they cut to Ric Bucher I just knew we had landed him!

the nba draft is the weirdest thing ever.

nuggest just SOLD their pick? how ****ing weird? why do NBA teams sell their picks for cash when they can use the player?
It is strange, my understanding is the Nugz may have landed some serious cash for that pick which should help with the luxury tax. Quite simply teams sell 2nd round picks (which are not guaranteed by the way) because roster sizes are so small that if there's no reason to take a guy with a minimum chance of making the roster when you can find many equal or better players in the FA Pool/D-League. The Nugz roster is so set there's only real wiggle room for 1-2 players tops and with Lawson being guaranteed, that other spot can go to a veteran or guy from the summer league team who'd make much more of an impact (for example, that "spot" last year went to Dhantay Jones) than someone they'd take in the 2nd round.

I am glad we kept Lawson. I would really really like to see us get rid of AC.
I am pumped we got Lawson, but even more excited at the prospects of dumping AC. Unfortunately I just read a quote from Karl that he's still going to push to bring him back - ugh. Hopefully the FO puts it's foot down since they'll be going over the luxury tax to resign Bird and Jones.

footstepsfrom#27
06-26-2009, 01:18 AM
Haven't followed college B-ball much...but his highlights look like Robert Pack with a better jumper. Or is he better than that? Leading a team to the title says something.

Maximus
06-26-2009, 03:45 AM
Lawson is the typical middle of the road Guard coming out of college. He won't help the Nuggets. The Nuggets need a real center.

Broncoman13
06-26-2009, 05:18 AM
Haven't followed college B-ball much...but his highlights look like Robert Pack with a better jumper. Or is he better than that? Leading a team to the title says something.

Not sure how Lawson's game will translate in the NBA. If you were going to compare his style of play to anyone's right now, it would probably be the Rocket's Brooks. He is extremely quick with a nice eye on the court. Lots of steals, good amount of assists and will really excel in a fast pace transition style play... which means he's a perfect fit for the Nugs!!! He will have to work on his outside shooting though. Oh, and he is a great ball protector. He had something like 23 assists and 1 turnover during a 3 game stretch in the NCAA Tourney.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-26-2009, 05:27 AM
Lawson is the typical middle of the road Guard coming out of college. He won't help the Nuggets. The Nuggets need a real center.

You're enjoyin' your day
Everything's goin' your way
then along comes
http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/original/Debbie_Downer.jpg

Maximus
06-26-2009, 05:33 AM
You're enjoyin' your day
Everything's goin' your way
then along comes
http://www.mediabistro.com/agencyspy/original/Debbie_Downer.jpg

Just keeping it real. The difference between the franchises that are winning NBA championships consistently and the ones that don't can all be measured by 1 position. There is only one team that I can remember that didn't have a force in the middle ... Chicago.

No Rebounds... No Rings!

Lakers - Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Gasol, Mikan = 15
Celtics - Russell, Parish/McHale/ Cowans = 17
Rockets - Hakeem Olajawon, Sampson = 2
Spurs - Tim Duncan = 4
Heat - Shaq = 1

cousinal11
06-26-2009, 05:45 AM
Not sure how Lawson's game will translate in the NBA. If you were going to compare his style of play to anyone's right now, it would probably be the Rocket's Brooks. He is extremely quick with a nice eye on the court. Lots of steals, good amount of assists and will really excel in a fast pace transition style play... which means he's a perfect fit for the Nugs!!! He will have to work on his outside shooting though. Oh, and he is a great ball protector. He had something like 23 assists and 1 turnover during a 3 game stretch in the NCAA Tourney.



Being a Tar Heel, I watched probably 98% of Lawson's games over 3 years and this is a very good assessment. He is quicker/faster with the ball than anybody I've ever seen. He's a beast on defense (steals) when healthy, although he could have some trouble with taller guards. Very good court awareness and he simply doesn't turn the ball over. Some things overlooked would include his strength and shooting ability. He will not have a problem getting into the lane and getting shots up and when he's got time to square up his shoulders from outside, he can fill it up. His outside shooting improved consistently over his 3 years at Carolina, ala Raymond Felton.

He was a favorite of Coach Williams, who called Lawson Dennis the Menace (sp?), because of his love for cartoons and he was a jokster in the lockerroom.

Height and durability are the big question marks with Ty, but he played through turf toe against dook on Senior night and in the NCAA's and was nearly perfect. He was seemingly always at the top of his game when it mattered most.

Maximus
06-26-2009, 05:50 AM
Not sure how Lawson's game will translate in the NBA. If you were going to compare his style of play to anyone's right now, it would probably be the Rocket's Brooks. He is extremely quick with a nice eye on the court. Lots of steals, good amount of assists and will really excel in a fast pace transition style play... which means he's a perfect fit for the Nugs!!! He will have to work on his outside shooting though. Oh, and he is a great ball protector. He had something like 23 assists and 1 turnover during a 3 game stretch in the NCAA Tourney.

I doubt that Lawson becomes a popular household name. He reminds me of a Low Budget Chris Paul.

NFLBRONCO
06-26-2009, 08:27 AM
Karl said, the speed of Tony Parker strength of Darrant Williams

Hotrod
06-26-2009, 08:35 AM
Just keeping it real. The difference between the franchises that are winning NBA championships consistently and the ones that don't can all be measured by 1 position. There is only one team that I can remember that didn't have a force in the middle ... Chicago.

No Rebounds... No Rings!

Lakers - Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Gasol, Mikan = 15
Celtics - Russell, Parish/McHale/ Cowans = 17
Rockets - Hakeem Olajawon, Sampson = 2
Spurs - Tim Duncan = 4
Heat - Shaq = 1

As a former C I think I love you man 8')

montrose
06-26-2009, 08:54 AM
Not sure how Lawson's game will translate in the NBA. If you were going to compare his style of play to anyone's right now, it would probably be the Rocket's Brooks. He is extremely quick with a nice eye on the court. Lots of steals, good amount of assists and will really excel in a fast pace transition style play... which means he's a perfect fit for the Nugs!!! He will have to work on his outside shooting though. Oh, and he is a great ball protector. He had something like 23 assists and 1 turnover during a 3 game stretch in the NCAA Tourney.

I think Brooks is a good comparison, especially with the speed. Lawson isn't quite as much of a one-trick pony though - he's a well-rounded PG who also has the ability to burn you. I'd liken him to a poor man's Tony Parker with Aaron Brooks' speed and Deron Williams' build.

With Chauncey and K-Mart aging, the time is now to win. Lawson helps that cause in many ways. His UNC experience should have him well prepared to transition to the pro game where he'll be an instant (major) upgrade over Anthony Carter who has forced Nuggets fans to lose more than a few hairs over the past few seasons. In addition, Lawson's abilities to play both a change-of-pace style and manage the game (along with his UNC roots) should allow Karl to trust him enough to signifigantly reduce Chauncey's minutes during the regular season which will leave him fresher for the playoffs. You also have the "Laker Factor" in that if the Nuggets are going to win a title they'll eventually have to beat LA. While they've yet to find a solution to Gasol and Odom's height, Lawson should help present some of the same matchup problems that Brooks did. All-in-all I think it's a great move for the team to win now and allows Lawson to learn under Chauncey's wing for a season or two and allow an easy transition at the PG position when #7 hangs 'em up.

Now the bad news, George Karl is still the coach so none of this matters.

Garcia Bronco
06-26-2009, 08:55 AM
Lawson is the typical middle of the road Guard coming out of college. He won't help the Nuggets. The Nuggets need a real center.

Can't disagree about the Center position.

Cmac821
06-26-2009, 09:20 AM
Lawson is a good pick up, I like it

BroncoLifer
06-26-2009, 09:58 AM
Now the bad news, George Karl is still the coach so none of this matters.

This, unfortunately, is the truth.

footstepsfrom#27
06-26-2009, 11:35 AM
Just keeping it real. The difference between the franchises that are winning NBA championships consistently and the ones that don't can all be measured by 1 position. There is only one team that I can remember that didn't have a force in the middle ... Chicago.

No Rebounds... No Rings!

Lakers - Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Gasol, Mikan = 15
Celtics - Russell, Parish/McHale/ Cowans = 17
Rockets - Hakeem Olajawon, Sampson = 2
Spurs - Tim Duncan = 4
Heat - Shaq = 1
Wow. Gasol made your list and David Robinson didn't? ???

Maximus
06-26-2009, 12:05 PM
Wow. Gasol made your list and David Robinson didn't? ???

Wow... big time oversight right there.

Spurs - Robinson / Duncan = 4
Seattle - Jack Sikma = 1
Philadelphia - Moses Malone - 1

BroncoLifer
06-26-2009, 12:18 PM
Just keeping it real. The difference between the franchises that are winning NBA championships consistently and the ones that don't can all be measured by 1 position. There is only one team that I can remember that didn't have a force in the middle ... Chicago.

No Rebounds... No Rings!

Lakers - Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Gasol, Mikan = 15
Celtics - Russell, Parish/McHale/ Cowans = 17
Rockets - Hakeem Olajawon, Sampson = 2
Spurs - Tim Duncan = 4
Heat - Shaq = 1

Who was the force in the middle for the Pistons (either era)?

IMO, Ben Wallace doesn't belong on the same list as these greats. The Bad Boys (God, I hated them!!) repeated despite having no noteworthy center presence. Unless your opinion of John Salley is higher than mine...

Maximus
06-26-2009, 12:21 PM
Who was the force in the middle for the Pistons (either era)?

IMO, Ben Wallace doesn't belong on the same list as these greats. The Bad Boys (God, I hated them!!) repeated despite having no noteworthy center presence. Unless your opinion of John Salley is higher than mine...

Bill Laimber was a serious center. Wallace and Wallace were formidable up front too.

Laimbeer is under rated. he was good for a double double every night. Pick and Pop... Screen and roll. He was tough as hell!

footstepsfrom#27
06-26-2009, 12:29 PM
Wow... big time oversight right there.

Spurs - Robinson / Duncan = 4
Seattle - Jack Sikma = 1
Philadelphia - Moses Malone - 1
What about Detroit with Laimbeer? He won two titles with numbers 1 point and 2 rebounds a game more than Nene...is there really much difference? I know he was more durable but it seems a stretch to say Laimbeer can win 2 and Denver couldn't win a title with Nene surrounded by good talent elsewhere. Besides...the best center in the NBA didn't win the title with Kobe on the floor.

BroncoLifer
06-26-2009, 12:29 PM
Bill Laimber was a serious center. Wallace and Wallace were formidable up front too.

Laimbeer a serious center? In the same context that you are throwing out names like Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Olajuwon??? No way.

Sure, a dominating big man in the middle is the best thing an NBA team can have, but the Bulls, Pistons and this year's Lakers prove that there's other ways to get to a championship.

footstepsfrom#27
06-26-2009, 12:41 PM
Gasol's not a dominant NBA center either...not in the sense you think of when you think of Shaq or Kareem controlling the middle. He's a scoring guy...a Dan Issel type, but how good would he be without Kobe in the lineup? He didn't exactly make the Memphis Grizzlies a force did he?

want2bAbronco2
06-26-2009, 12:52 PM
love the pick, but the Nuggs need to dump K-mart and get a real center and then we will be golden.

Rock Chalk
06-26-2009, 01:45 PM
Lawson is the typical middle of the road Guard coming out of college. He won't help the Nuggets. The Nuggets need a real center.

+1.

A great college guard but lacks the size for the NBA to be a great player. Takes too many off-balance shots and he isnt Kobe and cant get away with it.

Not the greatest ball handler either.

The biggest mystery of the draft was Hansborough being drafted at all. He has no position in the NBA.

Maximus
06-26-2009, 02:51 PM
Laimbeer a serious center? In the same context that you are throwing out names like Russell, Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, Olajuwon??? No way.

Sure, a dominating big man in the middle is the best thing an NBA team can have, but the Bulls, Pistons and this year's Lakers prove that there's other ways to get to a championship.

Yes... Way... :D IMO I think he's way under-rated. Now because of my oversight of David Robinson I will compare Robinson vs Laimbeer.

Robinson is one of the NBA's 50 Greatest players. Here are his stats in the areas that I feel are most important for a good center.

Robinson:

Points = 20,790
Assists = 2,441
Rebounds = 10,497
Blocks = 2,954

Laimbeer:

Points = 13,790
Assists = 2,184
Rebounds = 10,400
Blocks = 965

Laimbeer is -7000 in scoring, -257 in assists, -97 in rebounds and -1989 in blocked shots. Here's the kicker... Laimbeer played with terrible cleveland teams for his first 2 years got hurt in the second year and in his last year. Won 2 titles with Detroit. Robinson didn't win any until Duncan arrived? Laimbeer is no slouch!

Now as far as Gasol is concerned I have him ranked in the top 5 and would place him at #3 behind Garnett and Duncan. Gasol is like a small Kevin McHale... A nightmare for everyone in the league in the low post. You can't guard him. He can face up and shoot it... Go around you... play with his back to the basket and he can pass. When he was the center of attention in Memphis there were no nights where he had help and he still dominated.

Maximus
06-26-2009, 03:06 PM
+1.

A great college guard but lacks the size for the NBA to be a great player. Takes too many off-balance shots and he isnt Kobe and cant get away with it.

Not the greatest ball handler either.

The biggest mystery of the draft was Hansborough being drafted at all. He has no position in the NBA.

Wow you think so... I think Hansborough is going to be a decent player. The nuggets should have taken Sam Young to help the front court. Remember that name along with Stephan Curry.

Maximus
06-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Gasol's not a dominant NBA center either...not in the sense you think of when you think of Shaq or Kareem controlling the middle. He's a scoring guy...a Dan Issel type, but how good would he be without Kobe in the lineup? He didn't exactly make the Memphis Grizzlies a force did he?

I missed your post... Gasol was very dominant with Memphis. He was the focus on the offensive end and played great defense too. The problem was the rest of his team. Which makes what he did in memphis even more impressive.

BroncoBuff
06-26-2009, 03:19 PM
I think Brooks is a good comparison, especially with the speed. Lawson isn't quite as much of a one-trick pony though - he's a well-rounded PG who also has the ability to burn you. I'd liken him to a poor man's Tony Parker with Aaron Brooks' speed and Deron Williams' build.
Man, that's a really good in-depth analysis, thanks.


Now the bad news, George Karl is still the coach so none of this matters.
Gimme some insight on why you're down on him?

mr007
06-26-2009, 03:19 PM
Yes... Way... :D IMO I think he's way under-rated. Now because of my oversight of David Robinson I will compare Robinson vs Laimbeer.

Robinson is one of the NBA's 50 Greatest players. Here are his stats in the areas that I feel are most important for a good center.

Robinson:

Points = 20,790
Assists = 2,441
Rebounds = 10,497
Blocks = 2,954

Laimbeer:

Points = 13,790
Assists = 2,184
Rebounds = 10,400
Blocks = 965

Laimbeer is -7000 in scoring, -257 in assists, -97 in rebounds and -1989 in blocked shots. Here's the kicker... Laimbeer played with terrible cleveland teams for his first 2 years got hurt in the second year and in his last year. Won 2 titles with Detroit. Robinson didn't win any until Duncan arrived? Laimbeer is no slouch!

Now as far as Gasol is concerned I have him ranked in the top 5 and would place him at #3 behind Garnett and Duncan. Gasol is like a small Kevin McHale... A nightmare for everyone in the league in the low post. You can't guard him. He can face up and shoot it... Go around you... play with his back to the basket and he can pass. When he was the center of attention in Memphis there were no nights where he had help and he still dominated.

Dude what are you talking about?? I'll give you the fact that Laimbeer was a good shooter, but he was nowhere near the level of a David Robinson and definitely not overrated. He was a good shooter and decent rebounder and that's pretty much it. He didn't have stellar defense, he was slow, and he wasn't all that powerful or overwhelming for opponents. Bill was pretty much an average to slightly above average F/C who happened to have a pretty consistent career.

Gasol is bigger and I'd say quicker than McHale, definitely not smaller than him. McHale was pretty funny with all his finger-rolls from like 6-8 ft out in the post =). I'd say Gasol has potential to be that type of player even though I hate the way Pau looks.... anyone else think he probably is one of those dudes that you guard and smells just completely putrid?

BroncoBuff
06-26-2009, 03:20 PM
Was this the last year of K-Mart's bloated salary deal?

That figures ... finally he's playing kick-ass ball, and now we'll have to match some other offer :oyvey:

broncswin
06-26-2009, 03:32 PM
Was this the last year of K-Mart's bloated salary deal?

That figures ... finally he's playing kick-ass ball, and now we'll have to match some other offer :oyvey:

god I hope that was sarcasimLOL

montrose
06-26-2009, 04:06 PM
Was this the last year of K-Mart's bloated salary deal?

That figures ... finally he's playing kick-ass ball, and now we'll have to match some other offer :oyvey:

I believe Kenyon has two more years on his deal (thus making him extremely valuable next year as he'll have a huge expiring contract). I came to acceptance in 2005 that Kenyon was a complete goner and we'd be eating that max contract for years to come without any return so at this point anything he contributes is a bonus. I think Kenyon's played decently well over the past two seasons, he has his knucklehead moments (see Games 3, 5 and 6 of the WCF), bad shot selection and lack of consistent rebounding - but the guy is a good on-ball defender who brings energy and toughness to the team. In an ideal world, I'd love to land a legit C allowing us to move Nene to the 4 and bring Kenyon off the bench but that's quite unlikely. I think his future in Denver is predicated on this season. If the team takes another step forward (or at least makes it back to WCF) and he's a part of that, I could see him being brought back for that final season but if the team regresses or he struggles - the Nugz could auction off that expiring deal for assets.

Gimme some insight on why you're down on him?

I loathe George Karl. I mean I hate his guts. The McD haters on the Mane have nothing on my disgust for George Karl. Where do I begin? His players don't respect him (see incidents with Melo, K-Mart, JR and two behind -the-scenes ones I'm aware of with LK and Chauncey). He doesn't work the refs enough, has a terrible rotation, doesn't call enough set players, runs his stupid 2 PG sets with Anthony Freaking Carter playing off the ball, doesn't make adjustments (i.e. Dhantay Jones playing good defense on Kobe, AC getting killed, doesn't put Jones back in or failing to double Pau Gasol once the Lakers ran their offense that way), doesn't use bodies for fouls (lets K-Mart, Nene and Bird get into foul trouble too easily when playing a dominant big when he could let Petro and Balkman absorb fouls), can't draw up inbound plays, doesn't set a high standard (was "happy" they won 50 last year when they got swept and this was "just excited to get out of the 1st round"), rides older players too many minutes during the regular season, sets up horrible defensive matchups (anybody remember AC on Radmanovic in 08?), unnecessarily publically singles out players (JR mostly, Melo sometimes, Nene occasionally), holds grudges against players (JR again, Balkman too) and worst of all - quits on his team. Anyone who has consistently followed Karl's career in Denver and beyond can attest to that. Without a veteran PG to coach the team for him (Payton, Cassell, Billups) Karl is as worthless as Jay Cutler in the red zone with the playoffs on the line (okay that was a cheap shot).

Regardless, the Nuggets will never, ever win an NBA championship so long as Kroneke's business partner (they own a gym together) is on the bench. It's a shame too because this team will likely be blown up before Karl's finally gone and we'll be back to mediocrity or worse.

Can Josh McDaniels coach basketball too?

mr007
06-26-2009, 04:15 PM
I believe Kenyon has two more years on his deal (thus making him extremely valuable next year as he'll have a huge expiring contract). I came to acceptance in 2005 that Kenyon was a complete goner and we'd be eating that max contract for years to come without any return so at this point anything he contributes is a bonus. I think Kenyon's played decently well over the past two seasons, he has his knucklehead moments (see Games 3, 5 and 6 of the WCF), bad shot selection and lack of consistent rebounding - but the guy is a good on-ball defender who brings energy and toughness to the team. In an ideal world, I'd love to land a legit C allowing us to move Nene to the 4 and bring Kenyon off the bench but that's quite unlikely. I think his future in Denver is predicated on this season. If the team takes another step forward (or at least makes it back to WCF) and he's a part of that, I could see him being brought back for that final season but if the team regresses or he struggles - the Nugz could auction off that expiring deal for assets.



I loathe George Karl. I mean I hate his guts. The McD haters on the Mane have nothing on my disgust for George Karl. Where do I begin? His players don't respect him (see incidents with Melo, K-Mart, JR and two behind -the-scenes ones I'm aware of with LK and Chauncey). He doesn't work the refs enough, has a terrible rotation, doesn't call enough set players, runs his stupid 2 PG sets with Anthony Freaking Carter playing off the ball, doesn't make adjustments (i.e. Dhantay Jones playing good defense on Kobe, AC getting killed, doesn't put Jones back in or failing to double Pau Gasol once the Lakers ran their offense that way), doesn't use bodies for fouls (lets K-Mart, Nene and Bird get into foul trouble too easily when playing a dominant big when he could let Petro and Balkman absorb fouls), can't draw up inbound plays, doesn't set a high standard (was "happy" they won 50 last year when they got swept and this was "just excited to get out of the 1st round"), rides older players too many minutes during the regular season, sets up horrible defensive matchups (anybody remember AC on Radmanovic in 08?), unnecessarily publically singles out players (JR mostly, Melo sometimes, Nene occasionally), holds grudges against players (JR again, Balkman too) and worst of all - quits on his team. Anyone who has consistently followed Karl's career in Denver and beyond can attest to that. Without a veteran PG to coach the team for him (Payton, Cassell, Billups) Karl is as worthless as Jay Cutler in the red zone with the playoffs on the line (okay that was a cheap shot).

Regardless, the Nuggets will never, ever win an NBA championship so long as Kroneke's business partner (they own a gym together) is on the bench. It's a shame too because this team will likely be blown up before Karl's finally gone and we'll be back to mediocrity or worse.

Can Josh McDaniels coach basketball too?

Wow, Montrose. Rep for this - agree 100%, very well said.

orange crusher
06-26-2009, 04:39 PM
I loathe George Karl. I mean I hate his guts. The McD haters on the Mane have nothing on my disgust for George Karl. Where do I begin? His players don't respect him (see incidents with Melo, K-Mart, JR and two behind -the-scenes ones I'm aware of with LK and Chauncey). He doesn't work the refs enough, has a terrible rotation, doesn't call enough set players, runs his stupid 2 PG sets with Anthony Freaking Carter playing off the ball, doesn't make adjustments (i.e. Dhantay Jones playing good defense on Kobe, AC getting killed, doesn't put Jones back in or failing to double Pau Gasol once the Lakers ran their offense that way), doesn't use bodies for fouls (lets K-Mart, Nene and Bird get into foul trouble too easily when playing a dominant big when he could let Petro and Balkman absorb fouls), can't draw up inbound plays, doesn't set a high standard (was "happy" they won 50 last year when they got swept and this was "just excited to get out of the 1st round"), rides older players too many minutes during the regular season, sets up horrible defensive matchups (anybody remember AC on Radmanovic in 08?), unnecessarily publically singles out players (JR mostly, Melo sometimes, Nene occasionally), holds grudges against players (JR again, Balkman too) and worst of all - quits on his team. Anyone who has consistently followed Karl's career in Denver and beyond can attest to that. Without a veteran PG to coach the team for him (Payton, Cassell, Billups) Karl is as worthless as Jay Cutler in the red zone with the playoffs on the line (okay that was a cheap shot).

Regardless, the Nuggets will never, ever win an NBA championship so long as Kroneke's business partner (they own a gym together) is on the bench. It's a shame too because this team will likely be blown up before Karl's finally gone and we'll be back to mediocrity or worse.

Can Josh McDaniels coach basketball too?

Tell us how you really feel about George Karl. ;)

As for McDaniels being able to coach basketball, I think I'll want to wait to see if he can coach football first.

footstepsfrom#27
06-26-2009, 05:03 PM
Laimbeer was a 12 point/9.5 rebound guy with Detroit. He made his rep on being a dirty player and riding Isaiah Thomas' coattails to a couple of titles. Gasol is a taller Dan Issel whose got the good fortune of playing with Kobe. Neither should EVER be mentioned in the same sentence with Jabbar, Wilt, Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq or even Bill Walton.

It would be great if the Nuggs could land a legit center...but they don't come around long and the last one we had...Mutombo...we let leave. Next to C though...the PG spot is the most important on the team. I've wished for Denver to have a true 1 guard...not a short shooter...at that spot for a long time. This kid looks like he has those skills, and he's sure a huge upgrade over Carter, which means that fact alone should help Chauncy get some rest. I can't find any fault with that.

bronco_boi_5280
06-26-2009, 06:20 PM
+1.

A great college guard but lacks the size for the NBA to be a great player. Takes too many off-balance shots and he isnt Kobe and cant get away with it.

Not the greatest ball handler either.

The biggest mystery of the draft was Hansborough being drafted at all. He has no position in the NBA.

Last line invalidates everything you have to say.

Basically everybody thinks he's going to play decent NBA ball and have a long career. Star? Of course not. He may never even start. But to think he doesn't have NBA talent in some capacity is just plain silly.

footstepsfrom#27
06-26-2009, 08:21 PM
Here's some high praise for Lawson: http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/06/18/pondering-potential-first-round-point-guards/

enjolras
06-26-2009, 10:28 PM
Everything you need to know about Karl you saw in the Dallas series. The Nuggets are the better team by at least double. Yet Carlisle consistently found a rotation that confused Karl. He used time-outs to perfection and controlled the pace.

The Mavericks made it somewhat competitive simply because they're coach is that much better.

montrose
06-28-2009, 06:02 PM
Tell us how you really feel about George Karl. ;)

You'd be more likely to see Taco, Rev and SoCal giving McD a backrub then me acknowledge Karl as a competent human being - let alone coach.

Everything you need to know about Karl you saw in the Dallas series. The Nuggets are the better team by at least double. Yet Carlisle consistently found a rotation that confused Karl. He used time-outs to perfection and controlled the pace.

The Mavericks made it somewhat competitive simply because they're coach is that much better.

It's amazing how much of an impact coaching can have in the NBA. The talent of the Nuggets was able to overcome Karl to get to the WCF but it was just too much to battle when facing a great coach like Jackson. How Karl's managed to **** up this team for so long is incredible.

footstepsfrom#27
06-29-2009, 06:07 AM
How Karl's managed to **** up this team for so long is incredible.
Well he did help us beat the top seeded Sonics when we were seeded last. :wiggle:

rastaman
06-29-2009, 06:36 AM
Just keeping it real. The difference between the franchises that are winning NBA championships consistently and the ones that don't can all be measured by 1 position. There is only one team that I can remember that didn't have a force in the middle ... Chicago.

No Rebounds... No Rings!

Lakers - Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Gasol, Mikan = 15
Celtics - Russell, Parish/McHale/ Cowans = 17
Rockets - Hakeem Olajawon, Sampson = 2
Spurs - Tim Duncan = 4
Heat - Shaq = 1

The only problem here there aren't any centers presently or on the horrizon who even come close to the centers you have listed above. Shaq may prove his value of helping Lebraun James to title next year. Shaq is still a power in the post and will give Cleveland a consistent scoring threat at that position. Question is can Shaq stay healthy?

rastaman
06-29-2009, 06:41 AM
Laimbeer was a 12 point/9.5 rebound guy with Detroit. He made his rep on being a dirty player and riding Isaiah Thomas' coattails to a couple of titles. Gasol is a taller Dan Issel whose got the good fortune of playing with Kobe. Neither should EVER be mentioned in the same sentence with Jabbar, Wilt, Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq or even Bill Walton.

It would be great if the Nuggs could land a legit center...but they don't come around long and the last one we had...Mutombo...we let leave. Next to C though...the PG spot is the most important on the team. I've wished for Denver to have a true 1 guard...not a short shooter...at that spot for a long time. This kid looks like he has those skills, and he's sure a huge upgrade over Carter, which means that fact alone should help Chauncy get some rest. I can't find any fault with that.

I don't know what happened with trading Camby. But Camby could have made a huge difference for the Nugg in the WCF. Camby was the Center the Nugg needed, especially with defense and shot blocking presence.

montrose
06-29-2009, 12:18 PM
Well he did help us beat the top seeded Sonics when we were seeded last. :wiggle:

Best thing he ever did for this franchise.

I don't know what happened with trading Camby.

It was a salary dump to get us under the luxury tax.

But Camby could have made a huge difference for the Nugg in the WCF. Camby was the Center the Nugg needed, especially with defense and shot blocking presence.

Not sure how much of the Nugz you've watched but as much as I love Camby for his loyalty here, he's not a good on-ball defender. He's a great weak-side defender (much like Chris Andersen) but Nene's actually a better on-ball defender. If you watch the Lakers series from '08, you'll see Gasol and Odom pulverize Camby in the paint. I miss Camby's rebounding, but I doubt he would've made much of an impact on defense in this series and offensively he'd be a liability.

ColoradoBuff
06-29-2009, 12:29 PM
good trade for the Nuggets. bye bye AC!

cousinal11
06-29-2009, 01:43 PM
+1.

A great college guard but lacks the size for the NBA to be a great player. Takes too many off-balance shots and he isnt Kobe and cant get away with it.

Not the greatest ball handler either.

The biggest mystery of the draft was Hansborough being drafted at all. He has no position in the NBA.

I respect your opinions on college basketball, but this post is wrong on so many levels.

Off-balance shots? Lawson made his living in the lane using his strength and quickness to get shots off or floating along the 3-point line, shoulders squared.

Not the greatest ball handler? Did you watch the NCAA tourney?


As far as the Hansbrough comment, we'll see. I'd say there are millions of haters who agree with you. I'll admit 13 sounds high, but look who was drafted behind him. I don't think he'll be a star, but to suggest he shouldn't have been drafted at all is rediculous.