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GreatBronco16
06-27-2009, 01:56 AM
A lot of fathers have done numbers on their kids. But a lot of them don't take Jackson's path.

I always felt sorry for him--he was seriously messed up. But I don't buy the excuses.

Pretty easy to say being that you can't live a day of his life in his shoes.*insert joke here*

TDmvp
06-27-2009, 01:58 AM
Was watching "The Temptations" on VH1 last night. As far as R&B vocals go, MJ couldn't cary those guys' jocks if his life depended on it.



No doubt ... I wasn't born yet and stuff like you was L.A. :poke: :poke: hehe ... But those 50s guys could flat put it on it ...

The Temptations
The Cadillacs
Four Tops

basically anything Motown ...


Even newer stuff like Boys 2 Men was vocally far superior to MJ...
They was like a 50s Motown tribute band.

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MJ was a great performer I guess ... dancer and whatnot ... But nothing compared to guys with real music talent . he just aint in the same ball park... AS a singer , when i think talented vocalist of the last 60 years MJ wouldn't crack the top 100 . not even close.

Jason in LA
06-27-2009, 08:40 AM
I agree to an extent but there is one "celebrity" that had somewhat of an impact on my life and I just may cry when he goes. John Elway. There's a couple of reasons, one is the absolute thrill the man gave me with what he did on the field, the other that he never quit. It isn't like loving a family member where you love the whole being, it's the image and I think some have trouble separating the two. Right or wrong, a lot of people are affected by people they've never met.

I'm as big of an Elway fan as anybody, but I wouldn't say that he had an impact on my life. I didn't grow up to be an NFL QB. People who say that MJ had an impact on their life didn't grow up to be a singer. I can understand a pop singer saying that MJ had an impact on their life. Now if Elway died, I'd be sad, but I certainly wouldn't cry over the guy. If a close family member or friend died I'd shed a tear, but somebody I never met, even if I'm a big fan of that person, I'm not going to cry over or act like I've lost something.

NOLA Bronco
06-27-2009, 09:32 AM
I tried not to laugh ........... But seriously M.Jackson was just a kid himself , he was trapped in a mans body , unfortunate for him , he had talent ; M.J. was involved in a trial once where some guy claimed that M.Jackson stole his music ( thriller album I think ) , even the Judge in that trial said M.Jackson had a child like personality , and mannerism ....... Basically M.Jackson was retarded and was protected cause he had talent .......M.Jacksons father failed him

The Onion agrees: "King of Pop Dead at 12"

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/king_of_pop_dead_at_12

I figured the headline on The Onion would be like "Young Boys Flock Back to Catholic Church to Fill Molestation Needs with the Passing of Michael Jackson"

Kinda funny that both Jackson and Farrah Fawcett had an impact on my hand growing up. One with a glove, the other with some love....

Rock Chalk
06-27-2009, 09:49 AM
Given that he didnt settle outside of court, I'm pretty skeptical he is a pedophile (if he was guilty no way his lawyers let that case go to trial). He's a weirdo for sure, a proverbial child in a man/thing's body. But the hate that I'm seeing in this thread is just another pathetic sort of cruelty that's tolerated on the Mane.

He did settle the 1993 issue out of court.

Rock Chalk
06-27-2009, 09:54 AM
:oyvey:

You can always tell when OrangeGodObsessed has a hurt vagina - he's unable to refrain from bringing his political baggage into a non-political thread.

BTW, if Michael Jackson was a "cultural icon" to you, then the culture you live in must be pretty warped and/or impoverished.

Not for nothing nutjob, but Michael Jackson was a cultural icon to well over a billion people on this planet.

Outside of the USA, he is one of the most beloved celebrities of all time. His music trascended language, culture, race, ethnicity, religion, and politics.

In the USA, he has been crucified (justly or not is not really my concern) but outside of the USA he really was loved.

SO if he was a cultural icon to a few in America, what is wrong with that? He was a cultural icon to billions.

We cant all have Al Gore as our cultural icon.

BroncoInferno
06-27-2009, 05:02 PM
MJ was neither an artist nor a musician

He certainly was both of those things as he wrote or at least co-wrote most of his own material. Whether it's your personal taste or not, that's being an artist/musician.

Hulamau
06-28-2009, 04:13 PM
Ultra amazing talent...unbelievably lost soul...gotta wonder what kind of wacked upbringing contributed to his journey into becoming a freak show.

Yep, MJ was an incredible talent no doubt, just watching that 25th Motown anniversary the guy was amazing.

Can imagine with that extraordinary level of talent, that much of a controlling mean-ass stage father, and growing up in that kind of fish bowl working from 5 years old on, he probably really did think he was from Jupiter.

And I don't think he was a bonefide pedophile either. A really mixed up stranger than life dude, no doubt, but more a guy with a severe identity crisis and wanting very much to stay as Peter Pan and fend off the world.

I remember seeing an interview with McCauley Culkin , one of his young 'boy' friends and he laughed off the idea of MJ being a pedophile. MJ was also such close friends with some heavy weight people who still are very fond of him to this day and I just cant see that being so if he was really a true pedophile and a predator.

A guy with colossal distortions of reality and astonishingly naive and poor judgment about his slumber party mates as a grown man, absolutely! But a full blown pedophile, I really doubt it.

Hulamau
06-28-2009, 04:30 PM
I don't consider him to be either a musician or an artist - just a fabricated poseur pop star.

“Oh, God! That boy moves in a very exceptional way. That’s the greatest dancer of the century”. - Fred Astaire

“I didn’t want to leave this world without knowing who my descendant was. Thank you Michael!”- Fred Astaire (shortly before his death)

“The only male singer who I’ve seen besides myself and who’s better than me – that is Michael Jackson.” – Frank Sinatra


Now ... Lets seeee ... I wonder whose talent observations and opinions one should trust here? LA Broncos Fan's or Fred Astaire and Frank Sinatra, and just about every other living star of any caliber at all on planet earth who actually saw the guy sing and dance and has even the slightest idea of what they are talking about?

That's what you call an old fashion Body Slam Dunk! :curtsey:

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
06-28-2009, 05:17 PM
Now ... Lets seeee ... I wonder whose talent observations and opinions one should trust here? LA Broncos Fan's or Fred Astaire and Frank Sinatra, and just about every other living star of any caliber at all on planet earth who actually saw the guy sing and dance and has even the slightest idea of what they are talking about?

That's what you call an old fashion Body Slam Dunk! :curtsey:

Oh no - not the "great because so-and-so says so" or "great because everybody likes him" argument again. :oyvey:

Shall we add the Spice Girls to the roster as well?

Hogan11
06-28-2009, 06:50 PM
Oh no - not the "great because so-and-so says so" or "great because everybody likes him" argument again. :oyvey:

Shall we add the Spice Girls to the roster as well?

I actually perfer The Spice Girls....have I mentioned lately how much I despise the dance choreography that MJ had a huge hand in bringing back from the dead with Thriller? Unforgivable...just unforgivable :nono:

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
06-28-2009, 08:40 PM
I actually perfer The Spice Girls....have I mentioned lately how much I despise the dance choreography that MJ had a huge hand in bringing back from the dead with Thriller? Unforgivable...just unforgivable :nono:

:laugh: :yep:

TheChamp24
06-28-2009, 09:57 PM
One thing I truly dislike is someone trashing music/an a musical artist/entertainer because they don't like him and think that person is so freakin horrible.
I get it, that is your opinion of the guy, you hate his music. Doesn't mean you have to trash the guy and other people for thinking he was a fantastic musician. Fact is, he was, otherwise people wouldn't be classifying him as the "King of Pop".

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
06-28-2009, 10:52 PM
Doesn't mean you have to trash the guy and other people for thinking he was a fantastic musician. Fact is, he was, otherwise people wouldn't be classifying him as the "King of Pop".

I think you're confusing musicianship and popularity.

There are plenty of examples of entertainers who become hugely popular while demonstrating little actual musicianship. There are probably even more examples of extremely accomplished musicians who work in relative anonymity and/or obscurity.

If you want to call Jackson the "King of Pop" (or 'showbiz schmaltz') then there's probably no argument there.

TDmvp
06-29-2009, 12:59 AM
One thing I truly dislike is someone trashing music/an a musical artist/entertainer because they don't like him and think that person is so freakin horrible.
I get it, that is your opinion of the guy, you hate his music. Doesn't mean you have to trash the guy and other people for thinking he was a fantastic musician. Fact is, he was, otherwise people wouldn't be classifying him as the "King of Pop".



DUDE , hate to burst your bubble but "King of Pop" is a self given title that HE gave himself and IF you didn't refer to him as that he would not do your shows or let you use interview footage . You had to of heard someone this week say self-professed King of Pop .... Self professed = self given title...

Marhay Carry and Céline Dion pulled this same bs self proclaimed stunned a few years ago trying to force a nickname down peoples throats by putting it in the contract that you MUST introduce them as such and such ...

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
06-29-2009, 01:16 AM
DUDE , hate to burst your bubble but "King of Pop" is a self given title that HE gave himself and IF you didn't refer to him as that he would not do your shows or let you use interview footage . You had to of heard someone this week say self-professed King of Pop .... Self professed = self given title...

Ha!

No kidding? I was not aware of that.

All the more reason not to make the guy my "cultural icon." ;)

BTW, I was having this same discussion with the GF last night, and came to the following conclusion: Even if you take the whole child molestation thing out of the equation, you're still left with a major problem. That is, Jackson hated himself so much that he spent truckloads of cash on cosmetic surgery, physically altering himself, changing his skin color, etc.

Why would anybody look to this kind of self-loathing freak show for a role model or icon?

???

Hulamau
06-29-2009, 02:16 AM
Oh no - not the "great because so-and-so says so" or "great because everybody likes him" argument again. :oyvey:

Shall we add the Spice Girls to the roster as well?

Hey LABF knock yourself out, you're entitled to not liking him personally or his music and even allowed to believe he was a scuzzy child molester if you want. His wacko behavior made that last option a possible conclusion one could draw, even if its unlikely. MJ brought that one on himself by his fruit-loop behavior and incredibly stupid and naive choice to have slumber parties with the kiddies as well, even if he wasn't actually poking or fondling the boys.

So holding any of those opinions is perfectly fine and acceptable and wouldn't solicit much of a peep out of me. But when you ALSO claim he wasn't a talented artist and musician, do you have any idea how utterly, laughably moronic that sounds???

And that isn't at all based only on 'who else agrees with his talent', each of us can recognize that with our own eyes and ears. And, in fact, the vast majority of the earth's population who has seen him perform agree the guy has real talent and stage presence, whether or not they approve of his personal life or prefer his style of music and dance.

Though I must admit, having Fred Astaire say MJ was "his descendant that he was waiting to find before he died" and the "greatest dancer of the century" and having Frank Sinatra claim that MJ was "the only male singer he had ever seen who was better than me" are both extremely solid reps on anyone's resume! :sunshine:

And that is true whether or not you have any inclining and appreciation who Fred Astaire and Frank Sinatra were? :clown:

Since you apparently fail to recognize the guy has any talent yourself, and if those two icons don't ring a bell for you (and if not, this is a pointless discussion anyway), then go listen to Quincy Jones, Smokey Robinson, Gladys Knight, Diana Ross, Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Gregory Hines (when he was alive), Barry Gordy, Andre Previn and hundreds of other famous musicians, artists and label owners speak about MJ's extraordinary talent as a dancer, singer and overall entertainer.

Many of these people also worked closely with him at one time or another and experienced his talent and creativity up close and personal. But of course, none of those people have any idea on earth what they are talking about, right LABF?

Certainly, none of them really meant what they said and were all just pandering to the camera to kiss up to MJ to stay in his good graces .. no wait, he's dead now ....... no I guess it must be because they all wanted to look magnanimous and sympathetic to the world, but secretly they all recognize what a third rate talentless performer he really was .. yeah that sounds about right. :spit:

The funny thing is, while I like maybe ten of his songs I'm not a big MJ fan myself and never bought one of his albums.

But the thing that gets me, is the small-mindedness that some people reveal once they turn on someone for one reason or another ... once they don't like someone, that person and all that they have done, have been and accomplished is torn down to nothing.

Its not unlike those former rabid fans who now act like Cutler couldn't throw a forward pass if his life depended on it, just because he's an immature, self-absorbed punk who jilted his team and split town. Once he was their God, and is now only the Devil.

I'm not defending MJ, the person, in any way shape or form. Increasingly over the last 15 years or so of his life, he was about as strange, messed up and wacko as they come, and to his great misfortune he had enough money and egocentricity to isolate himself from any effective mental help he might have gotten, had he really been willing to take a deeper look at the 'man in the mirror'.

But to then deny that the guy has any talent as a artist and dancer simply because you despise him, or don't prefer his music, goes way too far. Such thinking either shows a thorough ignorance about his career and/or reveals this kind of knee-jerk, reactionary 'black or white' thinking mentioned above that lacks nuance, flexibility and the ability to see both the good and bad aspects of a person and hold both aspects in mind at the same time.

Alas, a not common affliction on many internet message boards.

Nevertheless, you are entitled to your opinion and are free to express it. Just don't be surprised when you get slammed for saying something so 'Off The Wall'. :flower:

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
06-29-2009, 02:43 AM
Hey LABF knock yourself out, you're entitled to not liking him personally or his music and even allowed to believe he was a scuzzy child molester if you want. His wacko behavior made that last option a possible conclusion one could draw, even if its unlikely. MJ brought that one on himself by his fruit-loop behavior and incredibly stupid and naive choice to have slumber parties with the kiddies as well, even if he wasn't actually poking or fondling the boys.

So holding any of those opinions is perfectly fine and acceptable and wouldn't solicit much of a peep out of me. But when you ALSO claim he wasn't a talented artist and musician, do you have any idea how utterly, laughably moronic that sounds???

And that isn't at all based only on 'who else agrees with his talent', each of us can recognize that with our own eyes and ears. And, in fact, the vast majority of the earth's population who has seen him perform agree the guy has real talent and stage presence, whether or not they approve of his personal life or prefer his style of music and dance.

Though I must admit, having Fred Astaire say MJ was "his descendant that he was waiting to find before he died" and the "greatest dancer of the century" and having Frank Sinatra claim that MJ was "the only male singer he had ever seen who was better than me" are both extremely solid reps on anyone's resume! :sunshine:

And that is true whether or not you have any inclining and appreciation who Fred Astaire and Frank Sinatra were? :clown:

Since you apparently fail to recognize the guy has any talent yourself, and if those two icons don't ring a bell for you (and if not, this is a pointless discussion anyway), then go listen to Quincy Jones, Smokey Robinson, Gladys Knight, Diana Ross, Paul McCartney, Stevie Wonder, Gregory Hines (when he was alive), Barry Gordy, Andre Previn and hundreds of other famous musicians, artists and label owners speak about MJ's extraordinary talent as a dancer, singer and overall entertainer.

Many of these people also worked closely with him at one time or another and experienced his talent and creativity up close and personal. But of course, none of those people have any idea on earth what they are talking about, right LABF?

Certainly, none of them really meant what they said and were all just pandering to the camera to kiss up to MJ to stay in his good graces .. no wait, he's dead now ....... no I guess it must be because they all wanted to look magnanimous and sympathetic to the world, but secretly they all recognize what a third rate talentless performer he really was .. yeah that sounds about right. :spit:

The funny thing is, while I like maybe ten of his songs I'm not a big MJ fan myself and never bought one of his albums.

But the thing that gets me, is the small-mindedness that some people reveal once they turn on someone for one reason or another ... once they don't like someone, that person and all that they have done, have been and accomplished is torn down to nothing.

Its not unlike those former rabid fans who now act like Cutler couldn't throw a forward pass if his life depended on it, just because he's an immature, self-absorbed punk who jilted his team and split town. Once he was their God, and is now only the Devil.

I'm not defending MJ, the person, in any way shape or form. Increasingly over the last 15 years or so of his life, he was about as strange, messed up and wacko as they come, and to his great misfortune he had enough money and egocentricity to isolate himself from any effective mental help he might have gotten, had he really been willing to take a deeper look at the 'man in the mirror'.

But to then deny that the guy has any talent as a artist and dancer simply because you despise him, or don't prefer his music, goes way too far. Such thinking either shows a thorough ignorance about his career and/or reveals this kind of knee-jerk, reactionary 'black or white' thinking mentioned above that lacks nuance, flexibility and the ability to see both the good and bad aspects of a person and hold both aspects in mind at the same time.

Alas, a not common affliction on many internet message boards.

Nevertheless, you are entitled to your opinion and are free to express it. Just don't be surprised when you get slammed for saying something so 'Off The Wall'. :flower:

Wow - you're determined to work the same bandwagon argument until the wheels fall off, aren't you?

Instead of simply citing "experts" who believed Jackson was a major talent and parroting the usual showbill razz-ma-tazz and hype, why don't you give us your own argument or analysis as to why Jackson was a great or singular musician, vocalist, songwriter, or whatever.

Why was he important as a musical figure, in your assessment?

TDmvp
06-29-2009, 03:02 AM
Frank Sinatra



Frank Sinatra is not a song writer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sinatra_discography


and in my opinion a crappy singer ...

Pretty good actor and funny guy tho.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sinatra_filmography



MJ was a great performer I spose ...

But as far as a talented singer or writer he just wasn't ... Hence all the co-wrote or not his music he did . If you can write it yourself you don't share writing credits and $$$$ , you just don't , and you will never see him on a list of top 100 vocalist of all time , it just aint happening .

cutthemdown
06-29-2009, 03:06 AM
Yeah Sinatra way over rated. What he was known for was being a tyrant to play for. He was especially hard on the horn section from what I have heard.

Probably a pretty demanding gig for a singer that was a perfectionist, but didn't have a great voice. He did it with style.

cutthemdown
06-29-2009, 03:09 AM
Frank Sinatra is not a song writer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sinatra_discography


and in my opinion a crappy singer ...

Pretty good actor and funny guy tho.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sinatra_filmography



MJ was a great performer I spose ...

But as far as a talented singer or writer he just wasn't ... Hence all the co-wrote or not his music he did . If you can write it yourself you don't share writing credits and $$$$ , you just don't , and you will never see him on a list of top 100 vocalist of all time , it just aint happening .

So who is more talented songwriters who can't perform there songs to a high level, but just have a knack for great songs and lyrics. Or a player who maybe doesn't write great but can just has chops out the door?

cutthemdown
06-29-2009, 03:10 AM
I mean some guy who couldn't play or sing wrote I gotta a woman for Ray Charles but let's face it, Ray made it a great song. Ray Charles didn't write a lot of his tunes either.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
06-29-2009, 03:16 AM
So who is more talented songwriters who can't perform there songs to a high level, but just have a knack for great songs and lyrics. Or a player who maybe doesn't write great but can just has chops out the door?

Both of those types deserve respect.

I concur with TDmvp that Jackson was neither a great singer nor a great songwriter.

I mean some guy who couldn't play or sing wrote I gotta a woman for Ray Charles but let's face it, Ray made it a great song. Ray Charles didn't write a lot of his tunes either.

Ray Charles >>>> MJ.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
06-29-2009, 03:17 AM
Frank Sinatra is not a song writer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sinatra_discography



Ooops! Ha!

TDmvp
06-29-2009, 03:23 AM
So who is more talented songwriters who can't perform there songs to a high level, but just have a knack for great songs and lyrics. Or a player who maybe doesn't write great but can just has chops out the door?


So who is more talented
a singer/songwriter ... ROFL!


and /agree LA both are important and respected.


Most of MJs big hits , he didn't write ... It is one thing to do a song by someone else now and then as a made artist ... I get it ... and people give you songs they would like you to do ...

But it's another to be mentioned and compared to the Beatles and great artist when you are not even in the same ball park as far as what you brought to the table ... His whole library of hits just about was wrote by someone else .

performer is one thing , artist is another ...

I have sung and wrote for many years . Maybe I'm jaded ...

Hogan11
06-29-2009, 03:26 AM
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Submitted without comment

Hulamau
06-29-2009, 08:59 AM
Frank Sinatra is not a song writer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sinatra_discography


and in my opinion a crappy singer ...

Pretty good actor and funny guy tho.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Sinatra_filmography



MJ was a great performer I spose ...

But as far as a talented singer or writer he just wasn't ... Hence all the co-wrote or not his music he did . If you can write it yourself you don't share writing credits and $$$$ , you just don't , and you will never see him on a list of top 100 vocalist of all time , it just aint happening .


Who said Sinatra was a song writer?? He was the original Carooner, and he did have a very good voice. Not a pure singing voice but incredible control. timing and emotion.

All things MJ excelled at as well. MJ was more a song writer than Frank ever was but he didn't write all of his lyrics either.

What he did do was craft so much of the detail and over lays that made the songs what they were. He was a perfectionist and knew how to get the most out of his material as a performer.

Hulamau
06-29-2009, 11:24 AM
The big problem with MJ was his brain and pyschology. He didn't suffer from a lack of talent. Its too bad he couldn't have realized what he could have been had he not spiraled down hill so far. He was definitely in Neverland too long.

BroncoInferno
06-29-2009, 01:53 PM
Most of MJs big hits , he didn't write ...

That's simply false. While it's true he did not write all of his material (i.e. "Thriller" and "Rock With Me" were written and composed by Rod Temperton), he wrote and composed "Billy Jean", "Beat It", "Don't Stop Till You Get Enough", and "Bad" just to name a few. Whether you like Michael Jackson or not, it's simply a fact that he wrote and performed music that was highly important and influential.

Rohirrim
06-29-2009, 01:54 PM
Wow! Michael Jackson is dead?

I didn't even know he was sick.

TDmvp
06-29-2009, 03:12 PM
That's simply false. While it's true he did not write all of his material (i.e. "Thriller" and "Rock With Me" were written and composed by Rod Temperton), he wrote and composed "Billy Jean", "Beat It", "Don't Stop Till You Get Enough", and "Bad" just to name a few. Whether you like Michael Jackson or not, it's simply a fact that he wrote and performed music that was highly important and influential.


Sorry you're just wrong .... He didn't much , facts is facts ...



Off the Wall

1. "Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough" Michael Jackson 6:05
2. "Rock with You" Rod Temperton 3:40
3. "Workin' Day and Night" Jackson 5:14
4. "Get on the Floor" Jackson, Louis Johnson 4:39
5. "Off the Wall" Temperton 4:06
6. "Girlfriend" Paul McCartney 3:05
7. "She's out of My Life" Tom Bahler 3:38
8. "I Can't Help It" Susaye Greene, Stevie Wonder 4:28
9. "It's the Falling in Love" David Foster, Carole Bayer Sager 3:48
10. "Burn This Disco Out" Temperton







Dangerous
1. "Jam" René Moore, Bruce Swedien, Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley 5:39
2. "Why You Wanna Trip on Me" Riley, Bernard Belle 5:24
3. "In the Closet" Jackson, Riley, rap lyrics by Vashawn 6:31
4. "She Drives Me Wild" Jackson, Riley, rap lyrics by Aquil Davidson 3:41
5. "Remember the Time" Riley, Jackson, Belle 4:00
6. "Can't Let Her Get Away" Jackson, Riley 4:58
7. "Heal the World" Jackson 6:24
8. "Black or White" (feat. Slash on guitar) Jackson, rap lyrics by Bill Bottrell 4:15
9. "Who Is It" Jackson 6:34
10. "Give In to Me" (feat. Slash on guitar) Jackson, Bottrell 5:29
11. "Will You Be There" Jackson 7:40
12. "Keep the Faith" Glen Ballard, Siedah Garrett, Jackson 5:57
13. "Gone Too Soon" Larry Grossman, Buz Kohan 3:26
14. "Dangerous" Jackson, Bottrell, Riley


and that is just 2 cds worth .... Most of the Hits are not wrote by MJ ...

BroncoInferno
06-29-2009, 03:26 PM
Sorry you're just wrong .... He didn't much , facts is facts ...



Off the Wall

1. "Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough" Michael Jackson 6:05
2. "Rock with You" Rod Temperton 3:40
3. "Workin' Day and Night" Jackson 5:14
4. "Get on the Floor" Jackson, Louis Johnson 4:39
5. "Off the Wall" Temperton 4:06
6. "Girlfriend" Paul McCartney 3:05
7. "She's out of My Life" Tom Bahler 3:38
8. "I Can't Help It" Susaye Greene, Stevie Wonder 4:28
9. "It's the Falling in Love" David Foster, Carole Bayer Sager 3:48
10. "Burn This Disco Out" Temperton







Dangerous
1. "Jam" René Moore, Bruce Swedien, Michael Jackson, Teddy Riley 5:39
2. "Why You Wanna Trip on Me" Riley, Bernard Belle 5:24
3. "In the Closet" Jackson, Riley, rap lyrics by Vashawn 6:31
4. "She Drives Me Wild" Jackson, Riley, rap lyrics by Aquil Davidson 3:41
5. "Remember the Time" Riley, Jackson, Belle 4:00
6. "Can't Let Her Get Away" Jackson, Riley 4:58
7. "Heal the World" Jackson 6:24
8. "Black or White" (feat. Slash on guitar) Jackson, rap lyrics by Bill Bottrell 4:15
9. "Who Is It" Jackson 6:34
10. "Give In to Me" (feat. Slash on guitar) Jackson, Bottrell 5:29
11. "Will You Be There" Jackson 7:40
12. "Keep the Faith" Glen Ballard, Siedah Garrett, Jackson 5:57
13. "Gone Too Soon" Larry Grossman, Buz Kohan 3:26
14. "Dangerous" Jackson, Bottrell, Riley


and that is just 2 cds worth .... Most of the Hits are not wrote by MJ ...

LOL Can you count? He had a song writing credit on 12 of the 14 songs on Dangerous...I'm not a math person, but by my reckoning that's most of the songs. He only had three on Off the Wall, true, but it was his first album and one of the songs was a #1 hit. On Thriller he wrote the most enduring songs, Billie Jean and Beat It. You said he did not write most of his hits. You were incorrect, sorry.

TDmvp
06-29-2009, 03:32 PM
obviously you have no idea why you have HELP writing or have a Co writer ...
It means you can't do it yourself ...

You don't share credit and money if you DON'T HAVE TO ...
I bet if he wrote all his own music we wouldn't even know who he was hardly and I bet what writing he did do was after the song ideas and format was set and he went back and added burps and wooos and hee hees ...

Sorry but I know a little about this subject ... and you don't share writing credits if YOU DON'T HAVE TO ....

LittleFloyd
06-29-2009, 03:35 PM
This just in.........Michael Jackson is still dead.

BroncoInferno
06-29-2009, 03:36 PM
obviously you have no idea why you have HELP writing or have a Co writer ...
It means you can't do it yourself ...

You don't share credit and money if you DON'T HAVE TO ...
I bet if he wrote all his own music we wouldn't even know who he was hardly and I bet what writing he did do was after the song ideas and format was set and he went back and added burps and wooos and hee hees ...

Sorry but I know a little about this subject ... and you don't writing share credits if YOU DON'T HAVE TO ....

That's pretty stupid. I guess Mick Jagger was not an artist because he got help from Keith Richards?

TDmvp
06-29-2009, 03:39 PM
That's pretty stupid. I guess Mick Jagger was not an artist because he got help from Keith Richards?



It's one thing when you and a member of your band sit down and you build a song ... normally in a BAND that is how it works . A guitarist and a singer combo.

It is another thing to call yourself the king of pop but you have professional writers who only write for others help you with most your music cause you can't do it yourself ...

BroncoInferno
06-29-2009, 03:46 PM
It's one thing when you and a member of your band sit down and you build a song ... normally in a BAND that is how it works . A guitarist and a singer combo.

It is another thing to call yourself the king of pop but you have professional writers who only write for others help you with most your music cause you can't do it yourself ...

What is the difference between collaborating on a song with a professional writer and bandmates collaborating? Each individual brings their own sensibilities and talents to the table to create the song. As you disparage Jackson's merits as a writer, do actually KNOW what his role in the process was or are you guessing because you personally don't like his music? This is not like with Britney Spears where writers create the music and lyrical melody and then she gets a song writing credit for penning lyrics over the existing melody. Jackson was very much involved in the process of crafting the music and melodies of his songs along with the lyrics. You may not like his music, and that is certainly fine; but like it or not he was a highly influential writer and performer.

OABB
06-29-2009, 04:02 PM
The big problem with MJ was his brain and pyschology. He didn't suffer from a lack of talent. Its too bad he couldn't have realized what he could have been had he not spiraled down hill so far. He was definitely in Neverland too long.

He must have got the brainworm... so sad.

Hulamau
06-29-2009, 05:07 PM
He must have got the brainworm... so sad.

You mean a 'brainworm' like that Stay Puff Marshmellow man coming out of your icon Jeffery's noggin' there :-) :peace:

OABB
06-29-2009, 05:12 PM
You mean a 'brainworm' like that Stay Puff Marshmellow man coming out of your icon Jeffery's noggin' there :-) :peace:

I thought it was the stay puft man who made Jeremy kill, at least that's what I learned from rugbythug, but now I have learned that Jeffrey was born with low levels of serotonin and that's why he ate, raped and killed people(and not necessarily in that order). i need to change my avy.

GreatBronco16
06-29-2009, 07:22 PM
obviously you have no idea why you have HELP writing or have a Co writer ...
It means you can't do it yourself ...

You don't share credit and money if you DON'T HAVE TO ...
I bet if he wrote all his own music we wouldn't even know who he was hardly and I bet what writing he did do was after the song ideas and format was set and he went back and added burps and wooos and hee hees ...

Sorry but I know a little about this subject ... and you don't share writing credits if YOU DON'T HAVE TO ....



What are you racist or something? LOL I'm sorry I just had to.

DenverBrit
06-29-2009, 09:06 PM
obviously you have no idea why you have HELP writing or have a Co writer ...
It means you can't do it yourself ...


Too funny. :spit:

I guess McCartney couldn't write solo....or Lennon. Or Jagger or Richards.
Or dozens of other great song writers who collaborate as well as write solo.

The only pop songwriting duo that comes to mind, who really need each other, are Elton John and Bernie Taupin.
There may be others, but MJ wasn't among them.

You're really barking up the wrong tree. :D

cutthemdown
06-29-2009, 09:15 PM
“Oh, God! That boy moves in a very exceptional way. That’s the greatest dancer of the century”. - Fred Astaire

“I didn’t want to leave this world without knowing who my descendant was. Thank you Michael!”- Fred Astaire (shortly before his death)

“The only male singer who I’ve seen besides myself and who’s better than me – that is Michael Jackson.” – Frank Sinatra


Now ... Lets seeee ... I wonder whose talent observations and opinions one should trust here? LA Broncos Fan's or Fred Astaire and Frank Sinatra, and just about every other living star of any caliber at all on planet earth who actually saw the guy sing and dance and has even the slightest idea of what they are talking about?

That's what you call an old fashion Body Slam Dunk! :curtsey:

Sinatra was full of himself, we wasn't any better then Bobby Darrin, in fact hes not even as good. Sinatras Mac the Knife doesn't hold a candle to Darrin's. IMO which is all any of this is.

For sure Jackson was a musician and an artist. LABF is silly to say he wasn't. Say you don't like his style, or think his art stunk, but are and a musician nevertheless.

I would think a musician like LABF would be more open minded even if he didn't really dig the style.

cutthemdown
06-29-2009, 09:19 PM
Also people would be surprised how much producers help write songs and bring them together. The don't get writing credit all the time for coming up with bridges or changing the order of a chorus, or the key a song is did in. So many things go into a hit record hard to give just the singer all the credit. Micheal probably wrote a lot of the lyrics, got help with the music, so it was co wrote.

You would be surprised how many hits bands and singers have that someone else wrote. Let's not forget pulling the tune off and selling it to the people also a big part of it.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
06-29-2009, 09:48 PM
I would think a musician like LABF would be more open minded even if he didn't really dig the style.

Anyone who knows me knows that I generally am open-minded about music, and that even when I don't personally dig the style, I will acknowledge the talent when I see it.

(Example: I always point out that I don't care for country music, but that only a fool would claim that guys like Brent Mason or Roy Clark have no talent.

Another example that comes immediately to mind would be a singer like Mariah Carey - I don't dig her style of music even a little bit, but it's obvious that she has a hell of a set of pipes on her.)

I just honestly just don't get how MJ was supposed to be some sort of exceptional talent - either as a vocalist or as a songwriter - and so far no one has been able to make a compelling case (all I get is the usual bandwagon appeals, i.e., "so-and-so thinks/says MJ is great," etc.)

Hulamau
06-30-2009, 01:07 AM
Sinatra was full of himself, we wasn't any better then Bobby Darrin, in fact hes not even as good. Sinatras Mac the Knife doesn't hold a candle to Darrin's. IMO which is all any of this is.

For sure Jackson was a musician and an artist. LABF is silly to say he wasn't. Say you don't like his style, or think his art stunk, but are and a musician nevertheless.

I would think a musician like LABF would be more open minded even if he didn't really dig the style.

Im with you Cut on Bobby Darin, he was the Bomb as a singer and writer. But Sinatra had a unique control and style too and defined cool for his era too just preceding Darin's era.

My point wasn't that MJ was the greatest artist of all time, not at all, but to claim he wasn't talented is just sadly, laughably, idiotic in the extreme!

It reflects the kind of knee jerk response some people reveal when they don't understand something or someone and turn on them and then its all black with no white.

I could care less if anyone doesn't like MJs music, that's perfectly fine, its not my favorite music either. But LABF has had some good posts and insights before and I was just surprised to see such a blatantly out to lunch statement from him that MJ had no artistry or musical talent.

Pick Six
06-30-2009, 01:25 AM
We're actually discussing whether or not he wrote his own songs? Ridiculous.

Here's the bottom line. Jackson was a MASTER at marketing himself and he influenced music in the 80s more than anyone else in the world. He had a major role in kicking off the MTV generation. People like his music. That should be enough to remember the guy for his accomplishments...

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
06-30-2009, 04:05 AM
People like his music. That should be enough to remember the guy for his accomplishments...

To say "people like his music" is an entirely different proposition than "he was a great musician," etc.

The first statement is not debatable (insofar as "in matters of taste there is no dispute.")

The second statement, however, is open for debate.

That's probably the whole discussion in a nutshell.

Rohirrim
06-30-2009, 11:44 AM
CNN is reporting that they are going to hold a public viewing of Michael Jackson's corpse at Neverland. I wonder if his dad is going to charge admission? This thing is going macabre.

Mountain Bronco
06-30-2009, 02:28 PM
It wasn't cardiac arest, he chocked on a little bone.

broncosteven
06-30-2009, 02:46 PM
CNN is reporting that they are going to hold a public viewing of Michael Jackson's corpse at Neverland. I wonder if his dad is going to charge admission? This thing is going macabre.

I wonder if they are going to prop him up in his hidden McCauley Culkin room filled with pictures of 10 year old boys?

I heard that the Mayor of Gary, IN wants his body to lie in state in Gary. Even in death they want the dude to tour.

He had a great couple of albums I do hope he rests in peace.