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Mediator12
06-24-2009, 11:14 AM
To all the idiots who argued against trading for Kris Jenkins a few years ago, digest this. He beats out all the DT's in 2000's including Warren Sapp as the top DT vote getter in ESPN's worthless article. Yes, it is a worthless article but it still names him the top performing DT in the decade. He also played NT as well as any other DT in the league for the NYJ's last year and helped them lead the league in Rushing YPA in the A Gap's despite never playing NT before in his life. Yes, that's right he played UT at Maryland and for CAR.

Anyone think if Shanahan had pulled the trigger on the trade instead of the Jets things would be very different in DEN right now?

vancejohnson82
06-24-2009, 11:17 AM
To all the idiots who argued against trading for Kris Jenkins a few years ago, digest this. He beats out all the DT's in 2000's including Warren Sapp as the top DT vote getter in ESPN's worthless article. Yes, it is a worthless article but it still names him the top performing DT in the decade. He also played NT as well as any other DT in the league for the NYJ's last year and helped them lead the league in Rushing YPA in the A Gap's despite never playing NT before in his life. Yes, that's right he played UT at Maryland and for CAR.

Anyone think if Shanahan had pulled the trigger on the trade instead of the Jets things would be very different in DEN right now?


Jenkins was solid for about 7 games for the Jets...then he played about 20% of the snaps and was gassing out after the 2nd quarter of games....look at how we pushed him around and gave Hillis the ball

pass

DBroncos4life
06-24-2009, 11:23 AM
I think if we had landed Warren Sapp things would have been different in Denver 8')

bronco militia
06-24-2009, 11:23 AM
wow...what a ****ty decade

HILife
06-24-2009, 11:27 AM
I think if we had landed Warren Sapp things would have been different in Denver 8')

we could've drafted Ed Reed!

ColoradoDarin
06-24-2009, 11:48 AM
So a bunch of people who read E!spn click on a link to vote for Kris Jenkins (or is this a poll of E!spn writers?, that's even worse)? Well, if it's on the InterWebz, it must be true!

Popps
06-24-2009, 12:02 PM
Anyone think if Shanahan had pulled the trigger on the trade instead of the Jets things would be very different in DEN right now?

Shanahan could have saved his job with a move like that.

Joey Porter is another guy that could have made a major impact, and he was available at one point, too.

Garcia Bronco
06-24-2009, 12:04 PM
To all the idiots who argued against trading for Kris Jenkins a few years ago, digest this.

Except you are talking about an opinion and not exactly fact.

DBroncos4life
06-24-2009, 12:06 PM
we could've drafted Ed Reed!

**** Ed Reed. People act like that was the only player in that draft and Denver was the only team to pass on him.

rovolution
06-24-2009, 02:11 PM
Casey Wiegmann dominated him in the Jets game this past season.

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 02:17 PM
Jenkins was solid for about 7 games for the Jets...then he played about 20% of the snaps and was gassing out after the 2nd quarter of games....look at how we pushed him around and gave Hillis the ball

pass

Except that is not even close to being true. I watched every game the Jets played, including the DEN one where people say Weigman manhandled him and he still was in the backfield 80% of the time past the single and double teams. What teams learned about the Jets was the rest of the DL was unable to defeat Doubles and they angled their Runs and protections away from Jenkins down the stretch. In short, they ran at all the other Gaps down the stretch.

Jenkins did tire out as the season progressed because it was the first time he ever played NT and the technique is very different and demanding. To say he only played 20% of the snaps and was worthless after the second quarter though is way off base though.

As far as Pass, you are now officially an idiot.

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 02:20 PM
Except you are talking about an opinion and not exactly fact.

Yes its an opinion, but the fact remains that not Only was he one of the top 3 DT's of the last decade, he still has a lot left in the tank at only 29. I bet he plays 4 more years @ a high level barring an unfortunate injury.

That's the thing here, DOMINANT DT's are hard to come by, and Jenkins has been dominant the whole decade and still is dominant playing out of position. DEN could have had him for a second rounder and still got 4-5 great years out of him.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 02:21 PM
LOL, I love when Med comes to fight.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 02:22 PM
I wish I disagreed with this so we could argue.

TonyR
06-24-2009, 02:23 PM
Here are the comments on Jenkins from the recent Football Outsiders 10 most irreplaceable players:

10. Kris Jenkins, DT, Jets
It seems strange that one of the 10 most irreplaceable players in football could have been acquired for third- and fifth-round picks as recently as a year ago, but the Panthers had grown sick of Jenkins' weight issues and injury problems. It was to their detriment.

The Panthers' rush defense, according to DVOA, fell from -5.1 percent in 2007 (17th in the league) to 8.0 percent in 2008 (24th -- the percentage increased, but since DVOA measures performance versus the league average of yards allowed in the same situation, a negative number is actually a good thing for a defense). Meanwhile, the Jets went from a 2007 DVOA of 11.3 percent, 30th in the league, to -7.7 percent in 2008, the seventh-best total in the league. The Jets have only journeyman Howard Green and the middling Sione Pouha behind Jenkins, leaving them with precious little depth if Jenkins should go down.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfceast/0...some-golf.html

TheChamp24
06-24-2009, 02:25 PM
Tell me genious how we could've beat the Jets offer of a 3rd and 5th round selection. We didn't have a 3rd round pick.
Trade 2009 2nd round pick and a 4th in 2008?

Possibly give up both 4th round picks.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 02:33 PM
Tell me genious how we could've beat the Jets offer of a 3rd and 5th round selection. We didn't have a 3rd round pick.
Trade 2009 2nd round pick and a 4th in 2008?

Possibly give up both 4th round picks.

There's at least 1,000 combinations, actually...

vancejohnson82
06-24-2009, 02:41 PM
Except that is not even close to being true. I watched every game the Jets played, including the DEN one where people say Weigman manhandled him and he still was in the backfield 80% of the time past the single and double teams. What teams learned about the Jets was the rest of the DL was unable to defeat Doubles and they angled their Runs and protections away from Jenkins down the stretch. In short, they ran at all the other Gaps down the stretch.

Jenkins did tire out as the season progressed because it was the first time he ever played NT and the technique is very different and demanding. To say he only played 20% of the snaps and was worthless after the second quarter though is way off base though.

As far as Pass, you are now officially an idiot.

Dude, you can say whatever you want about me being an idiot, I disagree.....I'm sure you've watch hours of tape on the Jets which is fine, but I had to painstakingly watch every single Sunday....and Jenkins disappeared in the latter part of the season and was on the sidelines more than he was on the field. This could be because he was a nose tackle and in a new position...and 20% is way off base i agree

so Jenkins would now be our 3-4 NT....and he would be learning the system all over again, one year later in his career....would this have made a difference for our team last year??

would Jenkins have stopped the Panthers from running through our team like 5'3" midget women? probably not

like you said, teams ran away from him into other gaps...our other gaps werent just gaps, they were highways...so Jenkins would not have made a difference

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 02:41 PM
Tell me genious how we could've beat the Jets offer of a 3rd and 5th round selection. We didn't have a 3rd round pick.
Trade 2009 2nd round pick and a 4th in 2008?

Possibly give up both 4th round picks.

Genious Hilarious!

No, I am no genius. Never claimed to be either.

What I will tell you is Kris Jenkins is and has been the dominant Disruptive DT of the last decade and still has more in the tank than any other DT outside of Kevin Willams IMHO. Let Kris Jenkins Line up at UT next to PAt Williams and see how unreal his stats would be in that defense!

DEN has needed a dominant DT since Trevor Pryce Decided he should play DE in 2002. If he had stayed inside, he might still be in DEN but he was stubborn and then BAL made him a DT after he left DEN.

DEN could have had him for a measely second round draft pick in 2008. Yes, that pick was Eddie Royal but no one knows how that draft would have played out if Kris Jenkins was in DEN. All I know Is DEN had a chance to get the most disruptive DT of the decade when he was 28 years old and passed. Then I was called an idiot for wanting the guy to come to DEN. Now, its time for people to come to grips with the fact that Jenkins was and still is a top 3 DT in this league and Mike Shanahan passed on him to rebuild the offense.

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 02:48 PM
Dude, you can say whatever you want about me being an idiot, I disagree.....I'm sure you've watch hours of tape on the Jets which is fine, but I had to painstakingly watch every single Sunday....and Jenkins disappeared in the latter part of the season and was on the sidelines more than he was on the field. This could be because he was a nose tackle and in a new position...and 20% is way off base i agree

so Jenkins would now be our 3-4 NT....and he would be learning the system all over again, one year later in his career....would this have made a difference for our team last year??

would Jenkins have stopped the Panthers from running through our team like 5'3" midget women? probably not

like you said, teams ran away from him into other gaps...our other gaps werent just gaps, they were highways...so Jenkins would not have made a difference


As bad as the Jets run defense was down the stretch, it went from being middle of the road to top 5 when Jenkins was there. It will severely improve this year with Ryan adding his wrinkles inot the mix and getting Bart Scott to clean up some of the running lanes.

The point of the matter is people, like you would pass on an unarguable Top 5 DT for a second round pick. There were 22 first round DT's taken in the 2000 draft's and not one was better than Jenkins. There were 26 second round DT's taken and not one better than Jenkins. So, the point being you shore up your defense with a top DT not by selecting offensive skill players. DEN could have had a top DT and been a top 20 defense with Jenkins anchoring against the run, even with the crap they put out there last year.

Sinmply put, in the end, Mike Shanahan lost his job over being a terrible GM in evaluating defensive talent.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 02:50 PM
Genious Hilarious!

No, I am no genius. Never claimed to be either.

What I will tell you is Kris Jenkins is and has been the dominant Disruptive DT of the last decade and still has more in the tank than any other DT outside of Kevin Willams IMHO. Let Kris Jenkins Line up at UT next to PAt Williams and see how unreal his stats would be in that defense!

DEN has needed a dominant DT since Trevor Pryce Decided he should play DE in 2002. If he had stayed inside, he might still be in DEN but he was stubborn and then BAL made him a DT after he left DEN.

DEN could have had him for a measely second round draft pick in 2008. Yes, that pick was Eddie Royal but no one knows how that draft would have played out if Kris Jenkins was in DEN. All I know Is DEN had a chance to get the most disruptive DT of the decade when he was 28 years old and passed. Then I was called an idiot for wanting the guy to come to DEN. Now, its time for people to come to grips with the fact that Jenkins was and still is a top 3 DT in this league and Mike Shanahan passed on him to rebuild the offense and Pat Bowlen is an idiot who ruined it all.

Finished.

footstepsfrom#27
06-24-2009, 03:13 PM
To all the idiots who argued against trading for Kris Jenkins a few years ago, digest this. He beats out all the DT's in 2000's including Warren Sapp as the top DT vote getter in ESPN's worthless article. Yes, it is a worthless article but it still names him the top performing DT in the decade. He also played NT as well as any other DT in the league for the NYJ's last year and helped them lead the league in Rushing YPA in the A Gap's despite never playing NT before in his life. Yes, that's right he played UT at Maryland and for CAR.

Anyone think if Shanahan had pulled the trigger on the trade instead of the Jets things would be very different in DEN right now?
Comparing hypothetical what might have beens is useless. Jenkins was great in Carolina but he was also having major issues off the field issues and he played with a much more talented D-line than he would have in Denver. He could easily have come here and been Chester McGlockton or Gerrard Warren.

cmhargrove
06-24-2009, 03:50 PM
Sometimes players just fit with a certain team or scheme.

Jenkins is a great player, and it sure would have been great to take a run at him instead of Dwayne Robertson. Jenkins isn't without his question marks, but a tremendous player we really could have used.

I will find it really interesting to watch Haynesworth in Washington this year. Does he dominate, or did he already get his payout?

Anyway, this is kind of sour grapes. Hopefully our defense builds its own identity, and finds it's way to the playoffs. I'll take wins over "top 10 lists" anyday.

oubronco
06-24-2009, 03:57 PM
wow...what a ****ty decade

agreed

Rock Chalk
06-24-2009, 04:35 PM
Except that is not even close to being true. I watched every game the Jets played, including the DEN one where people say Weigman manhandled him and he still was in the backfield 80% of the time past the single and double teams. What teams learned about the Jets was the rest of the DL was unable to defeat Doubles and they angled their Runs and protections away from Jenkins down the stretch. In short, they ran at all the other Gaps down the stretch.

Jenkins did tire out as the season progressed because it was the first time he ever played NT and the technique is very different and demanding. To say he only played 20% of the snaps and was worthless after the second quarter though is way off base though.

As far as Pass, you are now officially an idiot.

Haha. Someone tried to argue with mediator without any facts.

Thats just priceless.

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 04:36 PM
Comparing hypothetical what might have beens is useless. Jenkins was great in Carolina but he was also having major issues off the field issues and he played with a much more talented D-line than he would have in Denver. He could easily have come here and been Chester McGlockton or Gerrard Warren.

Again, he played with just as ****ty a DL @ NYJ's and was playing OUT OF POSITION yet still almost single handedly stopped the run for the first part of the season. Heck, some teams down the stretch could still not block him even when he was fatigued and tired covering for the pathetic DL around him.

He never had any of the off field Issues that Marshall did, yet he had major issues? After he left CAR's "much more Talented DL" CAR went from 4th in YPA to 23rd surrendering a half yard more per play without Jenkins...

As for the comparing hypotheticals, I thought you saying that was completely rich ;D

SureShot
06-24-2009, 04:38 PM
The non signing of Kris Jenkins started Broncobuff's downward spiral

listopencil
06-24-2009, 08:15 PM
For what it's worth- Med is right, and anybody in here arguing with him is an idiot.

rugbythug
06-24-2009, 08:26 PM
Kris Jenkins Best of the Decade Please.

Trevor Pryce is by far a better Tackle this decade.

Pryce 85 Sacks
Jenkins 24 sacks.

And yes Pryce played end too But he was a better DT. Also Jenkins has missed 2 whole seasons to Pryce's one missed season. And Kris had a better supporting cast.

TonyR
06-24-2009, 08:43 PM
Kris Jenkins Best of the Decade Please.

Trevor Pryce is by far a better Tackle this decade.

Pryce 85 Sacks
Jenkins 24 sacks.


The DT position isn't really about sacking the QB so basing your comparison on that stat is a bit flawed.

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 08:49 PM
Kris Jenkins Best of the Decade Please.

Trevor Pryce is by far a better Tackle this decade.

Pryce 85 Sacks
Jenkins 24 sacks.

And yes Pryce played end too But he was a better DT. Also Jenkins has missed 2 whole seasons to Pryce's one missed season *EDIT Pryce also missed the majority of one season in BAL to go along with one in DEN*. And Kris had a better supporting cast.

Trevor Pryce was the best DT for 2 years, then he played DE for 5 years in DEN. Then, he went to a much better DL and Defensive team and put up solid numbers as a role player to end his career. He was dominant for 2 years in the decade and never recovered, from gasp, an undiagnosed back injury by the medical staff and they put him back into a game that ended his year.

So, while he was a stud at DT 8 years ago, the rest of your argument is not valid since he has played less DT than DE this Decade and was relevant as a DT 8 years ago. Hell, he is listed as a 3-4 DE in BAL even though that is misleading.

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 09:02 PM
The non signing of Kris Jenkins started Broncobuff's downward spiral
Yup ... I was the one screaming about this, begging to trade our 2nd rounder for him. Tim freaking Crowder is what we have instead :oyvey:

As I recall, there weren't too many voices joining me. Mediator was about the only one, and Slap was fairly warm to the idea, but everybody else seemd to think he was too fat, etc. Out our DTs were so galactically horrible that year, Jenkins would've changed everything .... no way the Jaguars mount a 10+ minute drive on the ground with Jenkins in there. Amon Gordon, yes ... but Jenkins no.

Inkana7
06-24-2009, 09:06 PM
Actually, Buff, Eddie Royal is what we got instead, I believe.

rugbythug
06-24-2009, 09:09 PM
Trevor Pryce was the best DT for 2 years, then he played DE for 5 years in DEN. Then, he went to a much better DL and Defensive team and put up solid numbers as a role player to end his career. He was dominant for 2 years in the decade and never recovered, from gasp, an undiagnosed back injury by the medical staff and they put him back into a game that ended his year.

So, while he was a stud at DT 8 years ago, the rest of your argument is not valid since he has played less DT than DE this Decade and was relevant as a DT 8 years ago. Hell, he is listed as a 3-4 DE in BAL even though that is misleading.

I lump 3-4 DE in as DT's. It seems to be a better comparison. I mean Taylor is the all Decade DE and he has played OLB in a 3-4 frequently. As too Trevor playing DE in denver this is totally true. But the Technique they put him through was as much a DT Tech as anything else. You make mention of pryce playing with much better players but lets realize that Jenkins played with studs as well. A case could be made for Peppers as an all decade player at end.

Basically I just wanted to give pryce some love. Denver gave up on him to easily. He was a great player and had they worked with him a little more he could have put us in the playoffs one of those years.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 09:16 PM
Actually, Buff, Eddie Royal is what we got instead, I believe.

He was on the block starting the year before he actually got traded.

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 09:18 PM
He was on the block starting the year before he actually got traded.

Yes that's right .... my rant was the Jim Bates year with Sam Adams and (*hurl averted*) ... Amon Gordon.

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 09:34 PM
Yes that's right .... my rant was the Jim Bates year with Sam Adams and (*hurl averted*) ... Amon Gordon.

Dude, you left off Jimmy Kennedy, Antwon Burton, Alvin Mckinley, and Demetrin Veal. Great players all.

(stand Back while BB hurls :welcome: )

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 09:36 PM
I lump 3-4 DE in as DT's. It seems to be a better comparison. I mean Taylor is the all Decade DE and he has played OLB in a 3-4 frequently. As too Trevor playing DE in denver this is totally true. But the Technique they put him through was as much a DT Tech as anything else. You make mention of pryce playing with much better players but lets realize that Jenkins played with studs as well. A case could be made for Peppers as an all decade player at end.

Basically I just wanted to give pryce some love. Denver gave up on him to easily. He was a great player and had they worked with him a little more he could have put us in the playoffs one of those years.

Actually, it was Pryce who gave up on DEN after the Trainer incident. He refused to restructure the 10+ million dollar contract after 2 ineffective years. He left and signed with BAL 2 days later.

Pryce was a stud UT, but he was selfish as hell refusing to play there anymore in order to "age better". Well, the back injury was just Karma to me, especially when he refused to play against INDY in the playoffs.

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 09:39 PM
Dude, you left off Jimmy Kennedy, Antwon Burton, Alvin Mckinley, and Demetrin Veal. Great players all.

(stand Back while BB hurls :welcome: )

Man I couldda gone the rest of my life without hearing the name "Jimmy Kennedy" again. All-time World Champion "first-rounder-turned-scrapheap underachiver" he was ....

Just like this year with safeties ... 2007 we had the worst DTs in the league. And teams exploited it.

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 09:45 PM
Man I couldda gone the rest of my life without hearing the name "Jimmy Kennedy" again. All-time World Champion "first-rounder-turned-scrapheap underachiver" he was ....

Just like this year with safeties ... 2007 we had the worst DTs in the league. And teams exploited it.

I hate to tell you this, but 2008 was not much better. The Marcus Thomas and Robertson experiment got killed last year and now Ronald Fields is the new unknown savior. That is WHY this is important and relevant....

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 09:49 PM
Really? I'm of the opinion that Robertson and MT were much better than Adams and Gordon ???

And Lynch and Abdullah were much better than McRee and Lowry, too :(

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 09:57 PM
... and Marquand Manual.

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 09:58 PM
... and Vernon Fox.

rugbythug
06-24-2009, 09:58 PM
Actually, it was Pryce who gave up on DEN after the Trainer incident. He refused to restructure the 10+ million dollar contract after 2 ineffective years. He left and signed with BAL 2 days later.

Pryce was a stud UT, but he was selfish as hell refusing to play there anymore in order to "age better". Well, the back injury was just Karma to me, especially when he refused to play against INDY in the playoffs.

He did not have to Restructure because Balt gave him pretty big money. Selfish or not he was the only good player on our line for years. and we lost him for nothing.

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 09:58 PM
... and even Josh Barrett (as a rook anyway)

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 09:59 PM
Really? I'm of the opinion that Robertson and MT were much better than Adams and Gordon ???

And Lynch and Abdullah were much better than McRee and Lowry, too :(


Not by the numbers, the Inside run did not improve significantly with them in 2008 and OH, Thomas is still looking for his first NFL sack....

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 09:59 PM
Well, the back injury was just Karma to me, especially when he refused to play against INDY in the playoffs.

He had a near-miracle rehab from that back surgery .... came back 100%.

rugbythug
06-24-2009, 10:01 PM
Really? I'm of the opinion that Robertson and MT were much better than Adams and Gordon ???

And Lynch and Abdullah were much better than McRee and Lowry, too :(

Are you trying to say o8 or 07 had better players? Ask me 07 hands down. Even Sam Adams who we love to hate was better than anyone who has played after him (so Far)

Cue Carlton Powell to the rescue... Ala Hixon. Who we hyped and then actually was pretty good. Till he almost killed someone.

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 10:04 PM
He had a near-miracle rehab from that back surgery .... came back 100%.

2 years later he did. That ended his effectiveness in DEN, and he has had one good year for BAL since. Sacks since Back surgery goes 4, 13, 2, 4.5. The outlier is the 13 in his initial season, the 4, 2.5, and 4.5 are more his talent level post surgery.

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 10:42 PM
2 years later he did. That ended his effectiveness in DEN, and he has had one good year for BAL since. Sacks since Back surgery goes 4, 13, 2, 4.5. The outlier is the 13 in his initial season, the 4, 2.5, and 4.5 are more his talent level post surgery.

No he had a good 2005 after the back ... damn fine season helping us to AFC Ch-ship game.

Horse-trailer player of the week, remember? :~ohyah!: ... same night stupid Lenny Walls and his arm-tackling orchestra deprived us of shutting out Vermeil for the only time in his career ... that wouldda been sweet .

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 11:01 PM
Med we're not exactly agreeing much in here ... is that your fault or mine? (I think it's yours)

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 11:13 PM
Ahhh, you might be right about Marcus Thomas. I haven't heard his name mentioned even once outta Dove Valley this offseason. I'm disappointed ... in that I thought his game would translate perfectly to a 3-4 DE ... bulky with a push, but quick too. Can't rightly understand why they're putting him at NT ???

I'm not sure zero sacks is all that illuminating ... he does get push after all, a helluva lot more than Gordon or Adams ever did. Heck, he moved ahead of those guys into the starting lineup as a rookie remember. And he does have an INT too. Besides, Amon Gordon was the all-time champion of standing still with one hand on an O-lineman's chest and the other thrust wildly up in the air while he jumped up and down in place, like he was jumping rope or some damn thing ... no way you can compare MT to him :oyvey:

And I do NOT get Ryan McBean .... he has just one game played EVER, way back in 2007, and now suddenly he's starting for us? Makes no sense.

footstepsfrom#27
06-24-2009, 11:37 PM
Again, he played with just as ****ty a DL @ NYJ's and was playing OUT OF POSITION yet still almost single handedly stopped the run for the first part of the season. Heck, some teams down the stretch could still not block him even when he was fatigued and tired covering for the pathetic DL around him.
First, nobody disputes that Jenkins is a major improvement over Dwayne Robertson, but Denver's DL was worse than the 2007 Jets line, which at least had another pro bowl caliber player in Sean Ellis on the line. We finished 30th in rushing yards against while that team finished 20th and gave up over half a yard per run less than Denver did, so no...he did not play on a line just as bad as ours. Second, Jenkins wasn't "playing out of position". He's just as suited for the NT spot as he is for DT, unless you think 335 is to small there.
He never had any of the off field Issues that Marshall did, yet he had major issues? After he left CAR's "much more Talented DL" CAR went from 4th in YPA to 23rd surrendering a half yard more per play without Jenkins...
Carolina also lost Mike Rucker off that team, another guy whose been in the pro bowl, and while Jenkins doesn't have Marshall's issue...he has other issues instead. This is a guy who missed 27 of 32 starts in 2004 and 2005, and he's got some obvious mental problems, which he himself admitted. In case you've forgotten, Jenkins copped to the bizarre fact that while he was injured, watching Warren Sapp celebrate on the Panther's field after a win actually spiraled him into depression and alcohol use and he stopped rehabbing his knee or going to games...all suppsedly because of a personal hatred for Warren Sapp. Does that sound rational to you? Does it sound like a good character investment? Does it even sound potentially worse than Marshall's issues? Fact is...he's a guy who was and is a huge risk.

Keep in mind...Marshall was already here, he's been playing for $500 K a year, not the 5 year/$35 million Jenkins got from the Jets...$20 million guaranteed money. Marshall's put in two pro bowl calliber years here and he's been making in a year about what Jenkins now makes in a single game. So yes...adding all this up, Jenkins was a HUGE risk for this team and one that despite one good year in NY...we still don't know the result of for the Jets. This is a guy who could easily flip out again and spiral into mental issues, weight concerns or who knows what. Hindsight is 20/20 but you might want to wait a while before chalking this up as a good move for the Jets or considering anyone who didn't like the idea as an idiot. 31 other NFL teams also didn't decide to get Jenkins...including the Patriots. Another factor...in 2007 when we were contemplating bringing him in there were also issues about how strong his knee was. That may yet rise again.
As for the comparing hypotheticals, I thought you saying that was completely rich ;D
Not sure what you mean here, but it sounds like another cute little ad hominem...whatever...your point is still a poor one.

fontaine
06-25-2009, 03:19 AM
Carolina also lost Mike Rucker off that team, another guy whose been in the pro bowl, and while Jenkins doesn't have Marshall's issue...he has other issues instead. This is a guy who missed 27 of 32 starts in 2004 and 2005, and he's got some obvious mental problems, which he himself admitted. In case you've forgotten, Jenkins copped to the bizarre fact that while he was injured, watching Warren Sapp celebrate on the Panther's field after a win actually spiraled him into depression and alcohol use and he stopped rehabbing his knee or going to games...all suppsedly because of a personal hatred for Warren Sapp. Does that sound rational to you? Does it sound like a good character investment? Does it even sound potentially worse than Marshall's issues? Fact is...he's a guy who was and is a huge risk.

Keep in mind...Marshall was already here, he's been playing for $500 K a year, not the 5 year/$35 million Jenkins got from the Jets...$20 million guaranteed money. Marshall's put in two pro bowl calliber years here and he's been making in a year about what Jenkins now makes in a single game. So yes...adding all this up, Jenkins was a HUGE risk for this team and one that despite one good year in NY...we still don't know the result of for the Jets. This is a guy who could easily flip out again and spiral into mental issues, weight concerns or who knows what. Hindsight is 20/20 but you might want to wait a while before chalking this up as a good move for the Jets or considering anyone who didn't like the idea as an idiot. 31 other NFL teams also didn't decide to get Jenkins...including the Patriots. Another factor...in 2007 when we were contemplating bringing him in there were also issues about how strong his knee was. That may yet rise again.

I made this post when Jenkins was available and it still applies:

put on your shades because here's the list of shining stars we've drafted in the third:


Karl Paymah DB Washington State
Domonique Foxworth DB Maryland
Maurice Clarett RB Ohio State
Jeremy LeSueur DB Michigan
Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State
Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
Chris Watson DB Eastern Illinois
Travis McGriff WR Florida
Brian Griese QB Michigan


I would gladly trade our 3rd for Jenkins who would be an immediate upgrade over ANY of the guys we've drafted before in that round.

If the Panther's want to raise the stakes then maybe Wilson and a 2nd day pick.

So it was ok for Mike to spend a 3rd round almost every year on players who would drink booze in the gym, WRs who couldn't catch, CBs who couldn't cover but we should be afraid of dominant stud DTs because they have weight issues and had a history of depression?

Hilarious!

We could trade for an average DT who had no cartiledge left in his knees, drop an $11 million bonus on a baby producing malignant dumbass like Travis Henry but sending a 3rd rounder for Jenkins was just too much of a risk?

footstepsfrom#27
06-25-2009, 03:25 AM
So it was ok for Mike to spend a 3rd round almost every year on players who would drink booze in the gym, WRs who couldn't catch, CBs who couldn't cover but we should be afraid of dominant stud DTs because they have weight issues and had a history of depression?

Hilarious!
You're asking this from...who? I guess I missed the part where I advocated trading draft picks for other losers with various problems.

vancejohnson82
06-25-2009, 08:00 AM
As bad as the Jets run defense was down the stretch, it went from being middle of the road to top 5 when Jenkins was there. It will severely improve this year with Ryan adding his wrinkles inot the mix and getting Bart Scott to clean up some of the running lanes.

The point of the matter is people, like you would pass on an unarguable Top 5 DT for a second round pick. There were 22 first round DT's taken in the 2000 draft's and not one was better than Jenkins. There were 26 second round DT's taken and not one better than Jenkins. So, the point being you shore up your defense with a top DT not by selecting offensive skill players. DEN could have had a top DT and been a top 20 defense with Jenkins anchoring against the run, even with the crap they put out there last year.

Sinmply put, in the end, Mike Shanahan lost his job over being a terrible GM in evaluating defensive talent.

For the record, I was FOR the Jenkins signing....I just don't think it would have saved Shanahan's job...our defense would have still been an 11 man end zone cheering squad