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Rohirrim
06-24-2009, 07:46 AM
North Korea :rofl: Talk about your lunatic fringe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/24/north-korea-threatens-to-_3_n_220001.html

Florida_Bronco
06-24-2009, 07:47 AM
Bring it on, ****ers.

ghwk
06-24-2009, 07:48 AM
Yeah the Korean Navy and Air Force has me shaking in my boots

Dukes
06-24-2009, 07:49 AM
If all the innocent people in N. Korea fled, I'd have no problem dropping a nuke on those lunatics

TailgateNut
06-24-2009, 07:50 AM
North Korea :rofl: Talk about your lunatic fringe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/24/north-korea-threatens-to-_3_n_220001.html

I betcha the men and women stationed in S. Korea are on high alert. The NK leadership has lost its' collective mind, if they ever had a working brain.

ElwayMD
06-24-2009, 07:50 AM
They will eat our dogs!

Rohirrim
06-24-2009, 07:54 AM
I betcha the men and women stationed in S. Korea are on high alert. The NK leadership has lost its' collective mind, if they ever had a working brain.

No ****. Glad I'm not sitting up on Oullette or Collier right now. ;D

Beantown Bronco
06-24-2009, 07:57 AM
They will eat our dogs!

The combined weight of all the puppies my mastiff popped out is up over 900 pounds in less than 2 years. I could probably feed all that's left of them (after we finish bombing the hell out of them) for a year.

Smiling Assassin27
06-24-2009, 08:08 AM
Oddly, not a single mention of NK in Obama's presser yesterday. This struck me as odd, given the bold statements coming out of there. NK makes Iran look like Switzerland at the moment. I'd be a bit uneasy if I was in the DMZ or Okinawa.

Is anyone else of the opinion that we're about to see an Asian nuclear arms race touched off very soon? Japan's gonna push it, South Korea has no choice but to consider it, and Taiwan probably hasn't ruled it out.

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 08:12 AM
Oddly, not a single mention of NK in Obama's presser yesterday. This struck me as odd, given the bold statements coming out of there. NK makes Iran look like Switzerland at the moment. I'd be a bit uneasy if I was in the DMZ or Okinawa.

Is anyone else of the opinion that we're about to see an Asian nuclear arms race touched off very soon? Japan's gonna push it, South Korea has no choice but to consider it, and Taiwan probably hasn't ruled it out.

I'm far from a Obama fan but I like the fact he is not making public speeches about this asshole. Little maniac lives for his name in the news.

Smiling Assassin27
06-24-2009, 08:15 AM
I'm far from a Obama fan but I like the fact he is not making public speeches about this a-hole. Little maniac lives for his name in the news.

You'd think a single journalist out of, say, 100, would ask about this nut job (Jong, not Obama) given the plans he's announced for July 4.

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 08:18 AM
You'd think a single journalist out of, say, 100, would ask about this nut job (Jong, not Obama) given the plans he's announced for July 4.

Good point. Do you think the Obama admin told them pre-presser the subject was off the board?

Rock Chalk
06-24-2009, 08:20 AM
Oddly, not a single mention of NK in Obama's presser yesterday. This struck me as odd, given the bold statements coming out of there. NK makes Iran look like Switzerland at the moment. I'd be a bit uneasy if I was in the DMZ or Okinawa.

Is anyone else of the opinion that we're about to see an Asian nuclear arms race touched off very soon? Japan's gonna push it, South Korea has no choice but to consider it, and Taiwan probably hasn't ruled it out.

This is what I think could happen.

NK is going to keep pushing and threatening both the US and Japan. Japan's hawks are going to get the public approval to rewrite their constitution allowing them to re-arm. The moment this becomes public knowledge, China is going to step in and kick NKs ass in the dirt.

China has suffered through two brutal Japanese invasions and they have absolutely no interest in Japan re-arming.

The US policy should be to advocate Japan's re-arming of themselves, to help push China in the direction of controlling that piece of **** in North Korea.

The hawks in Japan have been pushing for this for a while but the doves have, so far, kept them at bay. But NK keeps firing missles over sovereign Japanese territory and the people will demand that Japan take action. The Japanese, right now, are a very passive folk but there is only so long you will be able to push them.

tsiguy96
06-24-2009, 08:24 AM
imagine if mccain was president, world war 3 would already be here...

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 08:26 AM
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/whatwhat.gif

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 08:27 AM
imagine if mccain was president, world war 3 would already be here...

Yet he is not so we could just leave bitter political views out of the thread so it does not get moved to the WRP forum.

Between the coup in Iran and this little nut job in NK I think Americans who are usually busy watching Americas next top media whore should start paying attention.

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 08:28 AM
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/whatwhat.gif

LOL

you are going to read it and liking it bitch

Dudeskey
06-24-2009, 08:28 AM
I betcha the men and women stationed in S. Korea are on high alert. The NK leadership has lost its' collective mind, if they ever had a working brain.

My brother in law is stationed in Okinawa. Has leave in the next couple weeks... well probably not anymore Thanks to Kim Jonj il

SonOfLe-loLang
06-24-2009, 08:39 AM
Even a nut like Kim Jong Il probably understands it does them no good to bomb anyone. While north korea may have some ****ty nukes that may or may not work all that well, the country is beyond poor and really poses no threat beyond an initial strike. Nazi Germany this is not, not to mention, they don't really have an ally as China wouldn't side with them in a war.

The one thing I do not understand about them is what they are after. Do they just want to be recognized as a bad ass on the global stage? That said, the news that comes out of that country is often funny. It's good to know that the first time Kim played golf, he got 11 holes in one. Or that they have trees that can bear fruit in the winter. Or that during their last "election," Kim got 99.9 percent of the vote! Or that during his birthday celebration he gave the entire north korean population a pair of a shoes. See, he's a nice guy.

Beantown Bronco
06-24-2009, 08:41 AM
Or that during his birthday celebration he gave the entire north korean population a pair of a shoes. See, he's a nice guy.

I heard he bought them all off that "cheap NIKE shoe" guy with the great customer service record that I keep seeing around here.

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 08:42 AM
Even a nut like Kim Jong Il probably understands it does them no good to bomb anyone. While north korea may have some ****ty nukes that may or may not work all that well, the country is beyond poor and really poses no threat beyond an initial strike. Nazi Germany this is not, not to mention, they don't really have an ally as China wouldn't side with them in a war.

The one thing I do not understand about them is what they are after. Do they just want to be recognized as a bad ass on the global stage? That said, the news that comes out of that country is often funny. It's good to know that the first time Kim played golf, he got 11 holes in one. Or that they have trees that can bear fruit in the winter. Or that during their last "election," Kim got 99.9 percent of the vote! Or that during his birthday celebration he gave the entire north korean population a pair of a shoes. See, he's a nice guy.

I think your second paragraph explains your first. You are trying to understand someone who is insane. IMO that is the same reason Iraq is such a mess.....Americans try and understand people thru our understanding of day to day life. It does not work out very well doing that.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-24-2009, 08:43 AM
Yet he is not so we could just leave bitter political views out of the thread so it does not get moved to the WRP forum.

Between the coup in Iran and this little nut job in NK I think Americans who are usually busy watching Americas next top media whore should start paying attention.


I find it interesting that America is so incredibly invested in the Iran election. Is it our history with Iran? is it the fact that their current president is a bit of a nutjob? Is it the fact that they control oil? Our media sure spends a ton of time concentrating on Iran. Had this happened in Belarus, no one here would give half a ****.

Not to mention, it'snot like Mousavi (sp) is really much better than ahmadinjad (sp). Probably like choosing between Bush and Cheney. That said, i think the most important thing to come from these protests are that the people are beginning to challenge the Ayatollah. This is hardly a revolution yet, but maybe the beginning of something.

Maybe we can bring back the Ayatollah Assahola t-shirts?

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 08:43 AM
I heard he bought them all off that "cheap NIKE shoe" guy with the great customer service record that I keep seeing around here.

No wonder the people are all pissed off over there. Their new shoes suck ass.

Rohirrim
06-24-2009, 08:44 AM
What we should be exporting to these countries is Xanax. ;D

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 08:45 AM
I find it interesting that America is so incredibly invested in the Iran election. Is it our history with Iran? is it the fact that their current president is a bit of a nutjob? Is it the fact that they control oil? Our media sure spends a ton of time concentrating on Iran. Had this happened in Belarus, no one here would give half a ****.

Not to mention, it'snot like Mousavi (sp) is really much better than ahmadinjad (sp). Probably like choosing between Bush and Cheney. That said, i think the most important thing to come from these protests are that the people are beginning to challenge the Ayatollah. This is hardly a revolution yet, but maybe the beginning of something.

Maybe we can bring back the Ayatollah Assahola t-shirts?

That is the real kicker.

I agree the good news is the people are atleast trying to be heard.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-24-2009, 08:45 AM
I think your second paragraph explains your first. You are trying to understand someone who is insane. IMO that is the same reason Iraq is such a mess.....Americans try and understand people thru our understanding of day to day life. It does not work out very well doing that.

Agreed. Americans are a very nationalistic bunch with little desire to understand how another culture (a much older culture) might be different.

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 08:46 AM
What we should be exporting to these countries is Xanax. ;D

LOL in reality that is not a bad idea.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-24-2009, 08:46 AM
What we should be exporting to these countries is Xanax. ;D

haha...and lots of beautiful hookers.

cutthemdown
06-24-2009, 08:47 AM
I had always felt K Korea was all talk but now that they are thumbing nose at China and Russia I am starting to worry.

Maybe he is so old and sick he doesn't care about what happens.

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 08:48 AM
I had always felt K Korea was all talk but now that they are thumbing nose at China and Russia I am starting to worry.

Maybe he is so old and sick he doesn't care about what happens.

I've been laughed at for making the same statement.

Rohirrim
06-24-2009, 08:49 AM
I had always felt K Korea was all talk but now that they are thumbing nose at China and Russia I am starting to worry.

Maybe he is so old and sick he doesn't care about what happens.

If history is any teacher, when millions of people worship you as a god, after some period of time, you begin to believe them.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-24-2009, 08:51 AM
If history is any teacher, when millions of people worship you as a god, after some period of time, you begin to believe them.

Or when you tell millions of people to worship you as a god and then starve them.

Eh, maybe he's dead too.. have we seen him lately? it wouldn't shock me if he had body doubles too like they used to accuse Francisco Franco of.

cutthemdown
06-24-2009, 08:52 AM
If history is any teacher, when millions of people worship you as a god, after some period of time, you begin to believe them.

do they really worship him though or just play along out of fear?

cutthemdown
06-24-2009, 08:54 AM
Agreed. Americans are a very nationalistic bunch with little desire to understand how another culture (a much older culture) might be different.

You think other countries less Nationalistic then America?

epicSocialism4tw
06-24-2009, 08:55 AM
This is what I think could happen.

NK is going to keep pushing and threatening both the US and Japan. Japan's hawks are going to get the public approval to rewrite their constitution allowing them to re-arm. The moment this becomes public knowledge, China is going to step in and kick NKs ass in the dirt.

China has suffered through two brutal Japanese invasions and they have absolutely no interest in Japan re-arming.

The US policy should be to advocate Japan's re-arming of themselves, to help push China in the direction of controlling that piece of **** in North Korea.

The hawks in Japan have been pushing for this for a while but the doves have, so far, kept them at bay. But NK keeps firing missles over sovereign Japanese territory and the people will demand that Japan take action. The Japanese, right now, are a very passive folk but there is only so long you will be able to push them.


Japan deserves to be protected. You dont let the neighborhood bully run roughshod over the good kid on the block.

If the UN cannot provide them with support, then they should have the right to support themselves. Period.

Broncos_OTM
06-24-2009, 08:59 AM
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/whatwhat.gif

what What you take it in the butt? lol

Rohirrim
06-24-2009, 09:03 AM
do they really worship him though or just play along out of fear?

What's it matter? The question is, what does he believe? I just finished reading a book about Caligula. When leaders begin thinking they are divine, all sorts of mischief ensues. Look at Iran and it's "Supreme Leader."

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 09:05 AM
What's it matter? The question is, what does he believe? I just finished reading a book about Caligula. When leaders begin thinking they are divine, all sorts of mischief ensues. Look at Iran and it's "Supreme Leader."

Or look at Shanny the leader of Dove Valley Ha!

Rohirrim
06-24-2009, 09:07 AM
Or look at Shanny the leader of Dove Valley Ha!

Look at that house he built. He was going for the "Valhalla" look. :D

Irish Stout
06-24-2009, 09:07 AM
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=999 align=center bgColor=white border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=12>
</TD><TD width=967 colSpan=4><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=967 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=blacktext vAlign=top width=701>11 Craziest Kim Jong-Il Moments (http://www.11points.com/News-Politics/11_Craziest_Kim_Jong-Il_Moments)
Posted Wednesday, September 10, 2008 at 02:00:00 AM

Word going around is that North Korean dictator Kim Jong-Il may be gravely ill (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5huSr2cto6oXklRH0nXdM8i7PEQ0wD933FH880).

Which made me realize I need to do this list, which I've wanted to do for a long time, while there's still a remote chance that Kim Jong-Il will be alive to read it. (After all, he is a self-professed Internet expert (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/05/north_korea_kim_internet_expert/) and, until a few years ago, was the only person in North Korea allowed to go online.)

Here's my list of the 11 craziest Kim Jong-Il moments. It's like a follow-up to my beloved 11 most ridiculous DMX moments (http://www.11points.com/Music/11_Most_Ridiculous_DMX_Moments) list, but way more dictator-y.
<TABLE style="FLOAT: right" cellPadding=5 width=250 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>http://www.11points.com/images/giantrabbit.jpg
Not Photoshopped. This is Szmolinsy with one of the giant rabbits that captured Kim Jong-Il's heart... and eventually found its way into his birthday dinner.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Kim plans to solve North Korea's famine by breeding giant rabbits (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1615350.ece). This is my all-time favorite Kim Jong-Il story. In 2006, Kim finds out that there's a guy in Germany who breeds giant rabbits. Seriously huge rabbits. Like, rabbits the size of dogs.

And Kim just becomes enamored of these, to the point where he decides that giant rabbits will be the solution to his country's widespread hunger problems.

So Kim gets in touch with 68-year-old Karl Szmolinsky of Berlin, the world's foremost breeder of giant rabbits, and says he wants Szmolinsky to come to Pyongyang and set up a farm to breed these rabbits. For Kim believes that the meat yielded by these rabbits will end his people's starvation.

Szmolinsky tells Kim this is, quite frankly, the dumbest idea possible. These rabbits only yield about 15 pounds of meat... and they have huge appetites... so they eat way more than that in carrots, potatoes and other vegetables. If anything, breeding giant rabbits would make the North Korea hunger situation even worse.

Undeterred, Kim pays for 12 rabbits, at a cost of about $115 each. He tells Szmolinsky that the rabbits will be kept at a petting zoo in Pyongyang and, in a few months, Szmolinsky will be flown in to help really set up a farm for breeding.

In February of 2007, about five or six months later, Szmolinsky gets a call from a North Korean official canceling that trip. Why? Because, Szmolinsky believes, Kim couldn't resist... and ate the giant rabbits to celebrate his birthday.
Kim shoots a 38 under par, complete with 11 holes-in-one (http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapcf/02/16/kim.birthday.reut/), his first time golfing. You may not know this, but, according to the state-run North Korean media, Kim Jong-Il is the best golfer in history.

Back in 1994, North Korea's first golf course was opened in Pyongyang, and Kim decided to play it. He'd never golfed before, but wow, was he a natural.

In his first-ever round of golf, he shot a world-record 38 under par... including another world record 11 holes-in-one! And even though all 17 of his bodyguards were eyewitnesses and swear they saw that go down, for some reason, the round-eye devils at "Guinness" fail to recognize either record.

After that round, the media tells us, Kim decided to retire from golf forever, lest he ruin it for us mortals.
Kim becomes the world's largest buyer of Hennessy (http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/01/12/story218812528.asp). Much like LL Cool J, The Luniz and Oscar Schindler, Kim Jong-Il loves tippin' some Hennessy. So he imports approximately $750,000 worth of it every year.

(The average member of the North Korean proletariat makes about $900 a year, by the way.)

In fact, according to Hennessy, in both 1993 and '94, Kim was their biggest single customer in the entire world.
<TABLE style="FLOAT: right" cellPadding=5 width=250 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>http://www.11points.com/images/kimjongilshoes.jpg
Kim Jong-Il with Putin, rockin' the elevator shoes.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Kim loathes his height so much that he attempts to rid the capital of short people (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/kim-jongil-school-days-of-a-tyrant-904130.html). Kim Jong-Il is only 5-foot-3. He hates this fact. He wears elevator shoes to hide it. He reveres people who are taller (apparently, when Secretary of State Madeline Albright visited North Korea, she brought him a Michael Jordan autographed basketball, which instantly became his prized possession).

In fact, Kim hates his height so much that he decided to fix the problem of North Korean shortness back in 1989... in a way that only a sociopathic dictator can.

According to Kim's former tutor, who's now living in exile in Virginia, in '89, Kim was still seething over the success of Seoul, South Korea, hosting the Olympics the year before. So he created the World Festival of Youth and Students, an event and spectacle intended to outdo and embarrass the Olympics. (It didn't, by the way.)

In advance of the Festival, Kim had pamphlets distributed in Pyongyang, describing a "wonder drug" that would make short people grow taller.

When people responded to the pamphlet, though, they quickly learned there was no wonder drug... it was Kim's way of flushing out the shortest members of society (besides him, of course), so he could round them up and have them "sent away to different uninhabited islands in an attempt to end their 'substandard' genes from repeating in a new generation."
Kim has his boyhood school blown up (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/kim-jongil-school-days-of-a-tyrant-904130.html). More from his former tutor. Even though Kim's father was Kim Il-Sung, the former dictator of North Korea, Lil' Kim still had to go to school. Kim was a "rather ordinary student" who ended up having to work hard to do well.

(Which is pretty incredible, given that his teachers probably would've disappeared permanently if they gave him anything in the check-minus/frowny face range on an oral report.)

Years later, Kim ordered the military to blow up the school where he had worked so hard. The reason? That school was now teaching regular people, not just the children of wealthy communist officials, and Kim was afraid that it was giving students too much of a competitive advantage against his own children.
<TABLE style="FLOAT: right" cellPadding=5 width=250 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>http://www.11points.com/images/pulgasari.jpg
Pulgasari crushes capitalist pigs! And possibly Mothra.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Kim's love of films leads him to kidnap two South Korean filmmakers (http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2003/apr/04/artsfeatures1). It's well known that Kim Jong-Il loves movies... he's written books on filmmaking, he owns more than 20,000 movies, he's a reputed James Bond fan and, apparently, he's obsessed with Elizabeth Taylor.

So, in the late '70s, Kim decided he was going to kick start the North Korean film industry. His plan? Kidnap two of the South's top filmmakers. One was Shin Sang-ok, a director; the other was Shin's wife, Choi Eun-hee, a top actress.

And he went through with the plan, had them kidnapped and brought them to North Korea. He made them eat grass while forcing them to shoot his "Citizen Kane" -- a pro-communist "Godzilla" ripoff called "Pulgasari".

It was terrible, but Kim loved it, and wanted to make a sequel. In 1986, he began working on a deal with an Austrian film company to distribute that film... and took Shin and Choi to go meet with them in Vienna. In Vienna, they managed to escape, and, after a taxi chase with some of Kim's bodyguards, they found safety in the American embassy.

Fortunately for Shin and Choi, they managed to start new lives in America. Unfortunately for Shin, his three features here were "3 Ninjas Knuckle Up", "3 Ninjas Kick Back" and "3 Ninjas: High Noon at Mega Mountain". The last of which starred Hulk Hogan, Loni Anderson and Jim Varney.

(Shin died in 2006 from complications with a liver transplant.)
Kim hires a staff to inspect his rice (http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jun/26/world/fg-gourmet26), to make sure each piece is the same size. In possibly the biggest example of his OCD, Kim apparently hates eating rice if every grain isn't uniform in length, plumpness and color. So he hires a staff of women to go through each and every grain of rice before it enters his palace's kitchen, making sure each piece meets Kim's standard.

It's always good to see communism working -- everyone equal, a completely utopia, no one abusing their power -- isn't it?
Kim makes sure he never gets addicted (http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/01/fujimoto.htm), or quits an addiction, solo. Kim Jong-Il doesn't like to be addicted alone. And he doesn't like quitting alone. And when you're a communist dictator, it's easy to have a multi-million person support group.

On doctor's orders, Kim was told to give up smoking (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1558368/North-Korea%27s-Kim-Jong-il-bans-smoking.html). So he did. And, at the same time, he decided to make every single other North Korean quit.

(By the way, if you're looking to quit smoking, I think the "quit smoking or we'll kill you and your family" plan might be slightly more effective than Nicorette gum.)

In 1992, Kim was doing some horseback riding, and took a spill. His doctors gave him painkillers. Which he was fine with taking... until he heard that they can be addictive.

So, for the next month, every day, when Kim got his painkiller injection, a half-dozen of his closest staff members also got the same injection. That way, Kim figured, if he became addicted, he wouldn't be the only one.
Kim has schools teach people that his birth led to a spontaneous rainbow breakout (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1907197.stm)... and that he doesn't defecate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-il). Pretty much every textbook in North Korea is Kim-centric. And many focus on biographical details.

A few notes stand out the most. One, children are taught that, when Kim was born (in February 1941), spring suddenly broke out and a shower of rainbows instantly appeared in the sky.

And two, children are taught that Kim does not produce urine or feces like a regular human. He transcends that.
Kim imports German cars (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2078122/posts), Czech beer, Uzbekistani caviar (http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2004/01/fujimoto.htm) and Swedish prostitutes (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/kim-jong-il-the-tyrant-with-a-passion-for-wine-women-and-the-bomb-421016.html). Millions of North Koreans have died from starvation under Kim's rule.

But he's not really concerned with that. He's using the country's money wisely. Like importing $20 million worth of Mercedes... sending his personal chef to the Czech Republic to buy beer... sending his staff to Uzbekistan and Iran to get caviar... and, of course, importing a non-stop stream of white, blond Swedish prostitutes to have sex with him and his friends.
Kim injects himself with the blood of virgins (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/kim-jong-il-the-tyrant-with-a-passion-for-wine-women-and-the-bomb-421016.html) to stay young. Well who among us DOESN'T do that?</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
http://www.11points.com/News-Politics/11_Craziest_Kim_Jong-Il_Moments

Pontius Pirate
06-24-2009, 09:10 AM
Purely from a military POV, I'd be interested to know how long it would take the U.S. to completely destroy the NK armed forces. Not fight an insurgency, mind you, just wipe out their army. I think it took us about a week to wipe out the Iraqi army, right? So how long would the NK army survive?

Granted, they could launch a nuke. But then they'd be royally screwed.

I guess the main issue for the U.S. would be the already extremely stretched circumstances of our military in the middle east.

supermanhr9
06-24-2009, 09:12 AM
something's gotta give, there is way too much tnesion in the world today, it's sad but something eneds to happen whether it be a "true" war, or a secret asasination of some higehr ups. I know we have the ability to do so, why don't we?

Rohirrim
06-24-2009, 09:16 AM
I'm guessing morale among the NK troops is pretty low. If the **** really hit the fan, I wouldn't be surprised to see them surrender faster than Saddam's "elite" Republican guard.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-24-2009, 09:18 AM
You think other countries less Nationalistic then America?

Not ALL other countries, but yes, of course there are many countries less nationalistic than America.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 09:21 AM
Purely from a military POV, I'd be interested to know how long it would take the U.S. to completely destroy the NK armed forces. Not fight an insurgency, mind you, just wipe out their army. I think it took us about a week to wipe out the Iraqi army, right? So how long would the NK army survive?

Granted, they could launch a nuke. But then they'd be royally screwed.

I guess the main issue for the U.S. would be the already extremely stretched circumstances of our military in the middle east.

There isn't a nation on the planet that actually has the balls to go toe to toe with the United States.

cutthemdown
06-24-2009, 09:22 AM
Not ALL other countries, but yes, of course there are many countries less nationalistic than America.

What would you say are the top 5 non nationalistic countries?

2KBack
06-24-2009, 09:23 AM
Not ALL other countries, but yes, of course there are many countries less nationalistic than America.

Nothing wrong with national pride really. There's too much self loathing as far as I'm concerned.

Most countries seriously know dick about the reality of other countries. When I was in Japan I was asked how many guns I own and if there is snow in America. I recently got back from volunteering for a month in Guatemala and was asked if I know Arnold Schwartzneger.

SleepingTiger
06-24-2009, 09:24 AM
do they really worship him though or just play along out of fear?

having lived in a communist state, its FEAR in a big way. Illegals in America have more rights than Koreans in N.Korea

SonOfLe-loLang
06-24-2009, 09:26 AM
What would you say are the top 5 non nationalistic countries?

A top five? I dunno! Just remember the definition of nationalism and don't confuse it with patriotism. Most countries aren't trying to shove their culture down the throats of others like we so often do. Our whole "spreading democracy" whether you feel its admirable or not, is very nationalistic.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-24-2009, 09:27 AM
Nothing wrong with national pride really. There's too much self loathing as far as I'm concerned.

Most countries seriously know dick about the reality of other countries. When I was in Japan I was asked how many guns I own and if there is snow in America. I recently got back from volunteering for a month in Guatemala and was asked if I know Arnold Schwartzneger.

HAHA i love the japanese:)

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 09:28 AM
having lived in a communist state, its FEAR in a big way. Illegals in America have more rights than Koreans in N.Korea

You dirty red.

epicSocialism4tw
06-24-2009, 09:29 AM
So...Kim Jong Il is North Korea's Chuck Norris.

Maybe we can let he and Chuck settle this once and for all. Heck, I would even settle for Steven Segall v. Jong Il.

Irish Stout
06-24-2009, 09:37 AM
Nothing wrong with national pride really. There's too much self loathing as far as I'm concerned.

Most countries seriously know dick about the reality of other countries. When I was in Japan I was asked how many guns I own and if there is snow in America. I recently got back from volunteering for a month in Guatemala and was asked if I know Arnold Schwartzneger.

I think most people across the world have a perception of the US thats based out of 80s action movies. When I was in Spain I was asked how many guns I owned and whether or not I was nervous sleeping with one under my pillow. After explaining that I, like millions of Americans, did not own a gun they were flat out amazed and didn't believe me. When I told them I was from Colorado they'd ask me if the Colorado Canyon was amazing... it took me a bit to understand they meant the Grand Canyon.

So 2K - do you know Arnold?

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 09:55 AM
I think most people across the world have a perception of the US thats based out of 80s action movies. When I was in Spain I was asked how many guns I owned and whether or not I was nervous sleeping with one under my pillow. After explaining that I, like millions of Americans, did not own a gun they were flat out amazed and didn't believe me. When I told them I was from Colorado they'd ask me if the Colorado Canyon was amazing... it took me a bit to understand they meant the Grand Canyon.

So 2K - do you know Arnold?

They would have freaked out if they were to get my detailed list of guns Hilarious!

epicSocialism4tw
06-24-2009, 10:12 AM
I think most people across the world have a perception of the US thats based out of 80s action movies. When I was in Spain I was asked how many guns I owned and whether or not I was nervous sleeping with one under my pillow. After explaining that I, like millions of Americans, did not own a gun they were flat out amazed and didn't believe me. When I told them I was from Colorado they'd ask me if the Colorado Canyon was amazing... it took me a bit to understand they meant the Grand Canyon.

So 2K - do you know Arnold?


Its even worse when people find out youre from Texas.

"Where are your cowboy hat and boots?", "How many cows do you have", etc.

The funniest are the Asian folks who show up en masse decked out in full cowboy regalia. All of which probably thought they'd see John Wayne somewhere around Fort Worth. ;D It happens every year.

That One Guy
06-24-2009, 10:13 AM
I think there's two possibilities of what we're seeing over there.

The first is that the little guy is just tired of the country starving and dying so he's found a tool to increase his negotiation power on the international stage. He figures he can push the world to the brink of nuclear war and then maintain more power when negotiations start. We gave all kinds of oil at one point to get them to give up their nuclear program, what would they expect in exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons rather than use them on South Korea, Japan, or even the US?

The other theory isn't mine but someone I work with. He thinks that the little guy is just trying to anger everyone possible throughout the rest of the year so that he can have his son take over and denounce his father. In doing so, the world would instantly fall in love with him and assistance would be coming in from everywhere to maintain the good relations with the son. I don't really buy this theory with the ego that Kim Jung Il has because I don't think he'd actually recognize that he did anything wrong nor allow his name to be insulted even if it saved his country.

SleepingTiger
06-24-2009, 10:23 AM
I think there's two possibilities of what we're seeing over there.

The first is that the little guy is just tired of the country starving and dying so he's found a tool to increase his negotiation power on the international stage. He figures he can push the world to the brink of nuclear war and then maintain more power when negotiations start. We gave all kinds of oil at one point to get them to give up their nuclear program, what would they expect in exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons rather than use them on South Korea, Japan, or even the US?

The other theory isn't mine but someone I work with. He thinks that the little guy is just trying to anger everyone possible throughout the rest of the year so that he can have his son take over and denounce his father. In doing so, the world would instantly fall in love with him and assistance would be coming in from everywhere to maintain the good relations with the son. I don't really buy this theory with the ego that Kim Jung Il has because I don't think he'd actually recognize that he did anything wrong nor allow his name to be insulted even if it saved his country.

The guy doesn't give a **** about the people. He only cares about his name and views. He would never let his name be ruined to save his people.

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 10:34 AM
The guy doesn't give a **** about the people. He only cares about his name and views. He would never let his name be ruined to save his people.

Yes, but you have to admit theory #2 would make a fairly good mini-series on NBC

gyldenlove
06-24-2009, 10:54 AM
I think there's two possibilities of what we're seeing over there.

The first is that the little guy is just tired of the country starving and dying so he's found a tool to increase his negotiation power on the international stage. He figures he can push the world to the brink of nuclear war and then maintain more power when negotiations start. We gave all kinds of oil at one point to get them to give up their nuclear program, what would they expect in exchange for giving up their nuclear weapons rather than use them on South Korea, Japan, or even the US?

The other theory isn't mine but someone I work with. He thinks that the little guy is just trying to anger everyone possible throughout the rest of the year so that he can have his son take over and denounce his father. In doing so, the world would instantly fall in love with him and assistance would be coming in from everywhere to maintain the good relations with the son. I don't really buy this theory with the ego that Kim Jung Il has because I don't think he'd actually recognize that he did anything wrong nor allow his name to be insulted even if it saved his country.

I am not sure, there is a pretty thick wall of Patriot missiles arrayed on the borders and in the water around North Korea as well as a several warhead carrying attack submarines.

I don't really buy into the 2nd theory, it would be very unlike him to do something like that, he is very self-serving. There is a third option however, I do believe that Jong Il knows that if he lets fly against Japan or North Korea, he will get the Saddam treatment, except it will be much faster and more brutal, and as soon as the Americans have bombed all his military installations to **** the South Koreans will invade and take control. I believe he is doing this simply as a way to force a peace process with South Korea that will not seem like surrender. If he can show the people of North Korea that he forced the South Koreans into signing a peace treaty because they are afraid of North Korea, it would help him financially, it would make him more popular, it would allow North Korea resume international trading all while maintaining a national pride and feeling of power.

It seems very much like posturing, if you are building long range missiles, why would you broadcast it, knowing full well that the amount of weaponry pointed squarely at you is 100 times more powerful than what you will ever have? If you really wanted to use the weapons you would keep them secret.

He is trying to maintain internal control by posturing and that way he will be able to build his power and prestige nationally while at the same time reducing expenses on military and increasing international trading.

Rohirrim
06-24-2009, 11:03 AM
I am not sure, there is a pretty thick wall of Patriot missiles arrayed on the borders and in the water around North Korea as well as a several warhead carrying attack submarines.

I don't really buy into the 2nd theory, it would be very unlike him to do something like that, he is very self-serving. There is a third option however, I do believe that Jong Il knows that if he lets fly against Japan or North Korea, he will get the Saddam treatment, except it will be much faster and more brutal, and as soon as the Americans have bombed all his military installations to **** the South Koreans will invade and take control. I believe he is doing this simply as a way to force a peace process with South Korea that will not seem like surrender. If he can show the people of North Korea that he forced the South Koreans into signing a peace treaty because they are afraid of North Korea, it would help him financially, it would make him more popular, it would allow North Korea resume international trading all while maintaining a national pride and feeling of power.

It seems very much like posturing, if you are building long range missiles, why would you broadcast it, knowing full well that the amount of weaponry pointed squarely at you is 100 times more powerful than what you will ever have? If you really wanted to use the weapons you would keep them secret.

He is trying to maintain internal control by posturing and that way he will be able to build his power and prestige nationally while at the same time reducing expenses on military and increasing international trading.

He doesn't care about his popularity. His role model is Stalin. He rules by fear. He controls the military. He's a total, autocratic, tyrant.

Inkana7
06-24-2009, 11:07 AM
Oh no, a barren, resourceless country has threatened us.

cutthemdown
06-24-2009, 11:16 AM
A top five? I dunno! Just remember the definition of nationalism and don't confuse it with patriotism. Most countries aren't trying to shove their culture down the throats of others like we so often do. Our whole "spreading democracy" whether you feel its admirable or not, is very nationalistic.

I think most countries seek out American culture because freedom of expression has led to good movies, good music, fun culture for the most part.

As far as us shoving things down peoples throats I think that is bull really. I don't know any Americans that really care what people in other countries like to do outside of not being assholes that antagonize us.

I agree that there are many definitions of the nationalist that are not pleasant. Any of the ones dealing with racial or cultural superiority are very dangerous and misguided.

When I speak of nationalism I mean that I care more about the interests of America then I do over the interests of another country. I don't feel a self titled right to it, a mandate from god, any of that. I just feel it is a race for resources and all countries will be looking out for what is best for them. IMO we can't play fair with the whole world because it is so large it would lower our standard of living.

I certainly feel other countries have a right to put there interests first as well. We will have to out guile them to the resources to maintain our high standard of living. I also feel sometimes we will have to fight for them.

I don't however buy into the whole what it right, what is wrong stuff. IMO what is right and wrong often determined by point of view. So I will always see things from what is best for America point of view.

I don't however feel our bloodline or culture is superior. Only that it's our lifestyle and I want to see it maintained.

cutthemdown
06-24-2009, 11:17 AM
Oh no, a barren, resourceless country has threatened us.

exactly we should avoid confrontation at all costs really. Nothing to be gained by taking them out. In fact after we would have to pay to bring the people into the modern era.

Think about we take out that regime we are left with a country that is basically stuck back in the early 1900's as far as technology goes.

Eeeesh I don't want to think about what it would cost to rebuild N Korea.

Rohirrim
06-24-2009, 11:23 AM
exactly we should avoid confrontation at all costs really. Nothing to be gained by taking them out. In fact after we would have to pay to bring the people into the modern era.

Think about we take out that regime we are left with a country that is basically stuck back in the early 1900's as far as technology goes.

Eeeesh I don't want to think about what it would cost to rebuild N Korea.

I'm sure we could work out a deal with the Chinese. They get to annex the country and place it under their commie heel and we get to market KFC, Coke and McDonalds, not to mention a little Walmart action. Hell, you've got a population already adapted to slave labor. We're talking a ready made Walmart labor force here!

dsmoot
06-24-2009, 11:32 AM
This is what I think could happen.

NK is going to keep pushing and threatening both the US and Japan. Japan's hawks are going to get the public approval to rewrite their constitution allowing them to re-arm. The moment this becomes public knowledge, China is going to step in and kick NKs ass in the dirt.

China has suffered through two brutal Japanese invasions and they have absolutely no interest in Japan re-arming.

The US policy should be to advocate Japan's re-arming of themselves, to help push China in the direction of controlling that piece of **** in North Korea.

The hawks in Japan have been pushing for this for a while but the doves have, so far, kept them at bay. But NK keeps firing missles over sovereign Japanese territory and the people will demand that Japan take action. The Japanese, right now, are a very passive folk but there is only so long you will be able to push them.

So much has changed in almost 70 years. China no longer FEARS a re-armed Japan. Outside of nuclear weapons, China would swat Japan.

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:07 PM
Yeah the Korean Navy and Air Force has me shaking in my boots

Too bad a smuggled in Nuke ala The Sum of All Fears could have people shaking in their boots.

Bronx33
06-24-2009, 12:11 PM
A couple missle tests and they got the tough man syndrome, me thinks they are compensating for having extra small penises and ugly woman.

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:18 PM
China has suffered through two brutal Japanese invasions and they have absolutely no interest in Japan re-arming.

The hawks in Japan have been pushing for this for a while but the doves have, so far, kept them at bay. But NK keeps firing missles over sovereign Japanese territory and the people will demand that Japan take action. The Japanese, right now, are a very passive folk but there is only so long you will be able to push them.

Are you seriously concerned that Japan is a threat to China? Even if nukes were tosses aside, China would skull **** Japan... and believe me I've lived in Japan. [insert "fail" misread stats here].

The only thing that's stopped China from taking over the world is nukes and nothing else. An army doesn't matter when a few nukes can destroy your entire nation. Hell the same argument could be made for the Soviet Union. China hates the United States and the western powers (in particular the leadership in China).

The Japanese of this era are not their grandfather's etc etc. As you said "passive" is a good word to describe it. However I'm all for them rearming. They deserve the right to defend themselves even if in all likelihood the only prospect of them being attacked is on the death bed of Kim Jong-Il.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 12:20 PM
Are you seriously concerned that Japan is a threat to China? Even if nukes were tosses aside, China would skull **** Japan... and believe me I've lived in Japan. China has the worlds largest army... at about 17.5 MILLION with another 45 MILLION on reserve. They got around 90 THOUSAND tanks too. Their numbers dwarf even our millitary... **** they even have TONS more ships than us and an Air Force of nearly 30 THOUSAND planes.

The only thing that's stopped China from taking over the world is nukes and nothing else. An army doesn't matter when a few nukes can destroy your entire nation. They hate the United States and the western powers.

The Japanese of this era are not their grandfather's etc etc. As you said "passive" is a good word to describe it. However I'm all for them rearming. They deserve the right to defend themselves even if in all likelihood the only prospect of them being attacked is on the death bed of Kim Jong-Il.

Yet we would skull **** China in under a month.

Rohirrim
06-24-2009, 12:22 PM
Are you seriously concerned that Japan is a threat to China? Even if nukes were tosses aside, China would skull **** Japan... and believe me I've lived in Japan. China has the worlds largest army... at about 17.5 MILLION with another 45 MILLION on reserve. They got around 90 THOUSAND tanks too. Their numbers dwarf even our millitary... **** they even have TONS more ships than us and an Air Force of nearly 30 THOUSAND planes.

The only thing that's stopped China from taking over the world is nukes and nothing else. An army doesn't matter when a few nukes can destroy your entire nation. They hate the United States and the western powers (in particular the leadership in China).

The Japanese of this era are not their grandfather's etc etc. As you said "passive" is a good word to describe it. However I'm all for them rearming. They deserve the right to defend themselves even if in all likelihood the only prospect of them being attacked is on the death bed of Kim Jong-Il.

Which is why we need to be a little touchy with North Korea. People forget, we were kicking the N. Koreans asses until the Chinese army crossed the Yalu River. For all we know, Kim Jong Il is just serving as the Chinese commie's instigator.

gyldenlove
06-24-2009, 12:22 PM
He doesn't care about his popularity. His role model is Stalin. He rules by fear. He controls the military. He's a total, autocratic, tyrant.

The only way he can rule is to keep the military in line, if he loses them he will wind up dangling from a street lamp.

Stalin controlled the military by continously going to war. Jong Il can't do that, so he needs something else to keep them in line, a show of power would do that, especially if it means you can station people in more hospitable surroundings than Panmunjon.

gyldenlove
06-24-2009, 12:24 PM
Are you seriously concerned that Japan is a threat to China? Even if nukes were tosses aside, China would skull **** Japan... and believe me I've lived in Japan. China has the worlds largest army... at about 17.5 MILLION with another 45 MILLION on reserve. They got around 90 THOUSAND tanks too. Their numbers dwarf even our millitary... **** they even have TONS more ships than us and an Air Force of nearly 30 THOUSAND planes.

The only thing that's stopped China from taking over the world is nukes and nothing else. An army doesn't matter when a few nukes can destroy your entire nation. Hell the same argument could be made for the Soviet Union. China hates the United States and the western powers (in particular the leadership in China).

The Japanese of this era are not their grandfather's etc etc. As you said "passive" is a good word to describe it. However I'm all for them rearming. They deserve the right to defend themselves even if in all likelihood the only prospect of them being attacked is on the death bed of Kim Jong-Il.

200 good scientists mean more than 10 million soldiers. Hiroshima proved that.

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:25 PM
Which is why we need to be a little touchy with North Korea. People forget, we were kicking the N. Koreans asses until the Chinese army crossed the Yalu River. For all we know, Kim Jong Il is just serving as the Chinese commie's instigator.

However we actually ended up pushing China out and we even have the opportunity to push into China. MacArthur actually wanted us to nuke China so we could crush the Communist oppression and turn it into a Democracy, but was denied and relived. I wonder what the world would be like if that had happened.

Bronx33
06-24-2009, 12:26 PM
Kin jong douchebag is just trying to score more free money to prop up his failed communist utopia for another year.

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:29 PM
200 good scientists mean more than 10 million soldiers. Hiroshima proved that.

The problem though is that China also has nukes. What that turns into is a war where neither side uses nukes since to do so would mean the complete destruction of each nation. Naturally though, if it came to the US or China being conquered I think the respective leaderships would launch an all out nuclear strike since. I call that the death-bed scenario. The leadership sees nothing to lose since they've already lost.

Still... think of all the wars fought since WWII without using a nuke by multiple nuclear nation.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 12:30 PM
200 good scientists mean more than 10 million soldiers. Hiroshima proved that.

Who did Oppenheimer quote?

Go!

Garcia Bronco
06-24-2009, 12:30 PM
Wipe us out? With what? Photoshop?

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:30 PM
http://www.vacantready.com/images/Nov07/ugly-hotel.jpg

That's a monument to N. Korea's failure. This hotel that they've not been able to finish for YEARS.

Northman
06-24-2009, 12:31 PM
Helwo


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_HJrGkCIwYOg/RtopGVQfUjI/AAAAAAAAAm0/-T9nRHOsC3A/s400/Team+America+World+Police+DVD+Movie+Review.jpg

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 12:32 PM
http://www.randomfunnypicture.com/pictures/1548Kim-Jing-Il-OK.jpg

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 12:32 PM
The problem though is that China also has nukes. What that turns into is a war where neither side uses nukes since to do so would mean the complete destruction of each nation. Naturally though, if it came to the US or China being conquered I think the respective leaderships would launch an all out nuclear strike since. I call that the death-bed scenario. The leadership sees nothing to lose since they've already lost.

Still... think of all the wars fought since WWII without using a nuke by multiple nuclear nation.

Would not surprise me at all if the US had finished the "impossible" Star Wars program. We're literary so militarily, technologically superior to other nations it's absurd.

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:32 PM
http://www.randomfunnypicture.com/pictures/1548Kim-Jing-Il-OK.jpg

hahaha LOL

Rohirrim
06-24-2009, 12:33 PM
However we actually ended up pushing China out and we even have the opportunity to push into China. MacArthur actually wanted us to nuke China so we could crush the Communist oppression and turn it into a Democracy, but was denied and relived. I wonder what the world would be like if that had happened.

Or if Patton had been allowed to keep his tanks rolling toward Moscow?

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:34 PM
Would not surprise me at all if the US had finished the "impossible" Star Wars program. We're literary so militarily, technologically superior to other nations it's absurd.

Oh we are, but unfortunately our current leadership doesn't want to continue advancements in military technology (which ironically often transfers over to huge advancements for the civilian sector). Hell, it's already been stated that we're going to stop funding our "unproven" missile defense systems. Oddly enough though those missile defense systems have improved an immense deal since their institution.

I'd like to see us press heavily into DEFENSIVE technology. But I don't see it happening.

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 12:35 PM
Would not surprise me at all if the US had finished the "impossible" Star Wars program. We're literary so militarily, technologically superior to other nations it's absurd.

I got a fifty spot that says we have a fully functioning star wars program

Inkana7
06-24-2009, 12:36 PM
Are you seriously concerned that Japan is a threat to China? Even if nukes were tosses aside, China would skull **** Japan... and believe me I've lived in Japan. China has the worlds largest army... at about 17.5 MILLION with another 45 MILLION on reserve. They got around 90 THOUSAND tanks too. Their numbers dwarf even our millitary... **** they even have TONS more ships than us and an Air Force of nearly 30 THOUSAND planes.

The only thing that's stopped China from taking over the world is nukes and nothing else. An army doesn't matter when a few nukes can destroy your entire nation. Hell the same argument could be made for the Soviet Union. China hates the United States and the western powers (in particular the leadership in China).

The Japanese of this era are not their grandfather's etc etc. As you said "passive" is a good word to describe it. However I'm all for them rearming. They deserve the right to defend themselves even if in all likelihood the only prospect of them being attacked is on the death bed of Kim Jong-Il.

You're retarded.

First of all, China's army has 2.2 Million active personnel, and 800,000 reserve. It has 7,000 tanks in 11 brigades. The Chinese navy employs 250,000 men and has 57 submarines, and 1,129 various ships, of which only 77 are primary surface combatants. The Chinese air force employs 400,000 men and has 2,024 aircraft.

For comparison, the US Air Force has 327,000 men and 5,573 aircraft, while the US Navy employs 332,000 men and has 280 surface combatants, 3,700 aircraft, and the most aircraft carriers in the world. And both are far more advanced technologically than the Chinese.

I have no idea where you got your numbers, but they're comically wrong.

Second, China doesn't "hate" the US and the West, they need us. China is Communist in name only and relies on the huge consumer demand of the west. They couldn't survive economically without us, unlike Cold War Russia which chose to try and survive without us, and failed. China knows how to dominate the global stage, and it's not with tanks and guns, it's with consumer products, oil, and money. If China hates anyone it's Taiwan.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 12:36 PM
Oh we are, but unfortunately our current leadership doesn't want to continue advancements in military technology (which ironically often transfers over to huge advancements for the civilian sector). Hell, it's already been stated that we're going to stop funding our "unproven" missile defense systems. Oddly enough though those missile defense systems have improved an immense deal since their institution.

I'd like to see us press heavily into DEFENSIVE technology. But I don't see it happening.

Public posturing.

Half the **** is probably listed in the budget as something entirely different anyways.

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:38 PM
I got a fifty spot that says we have a fully functioning star wars program

I can't go too much into this but, we've actually been doing pretty good with our Rail Gun and Laser programs. The big problem with them though is energy consumption. If we could develop a way to make and control an extraordinary amount of energy, then in all likelihood we'll see laser/magnetic based weapons etc.

Inkana7
06-24-2009, 12:38 PM
"The U.S. Navy is the largest in the world; its battle fleet tonnage is greater than that of the next 13 largest combined. The U.S. Navy also has the world's largest carrier fleet, with 11 in service and one under construction."

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 12:39 PM
I got a fifty spot that says we have a fully functioning star wars program

I got a fifty spot that says we have a fully functional X-Wing rebel fighter jet.

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:39 PM
"The U.S. Navy is the largest in the world; its battle fleet tonnage is greater than that of the next 13 largest combined. The U.S. Navy also has the world's largest carrier fleet, with 11 in service and one under construction."

Er... my understanding is that China has 22 carriers to go with the largest navy. The United Kingdom has an outstanding navy as well. Where did you get this info?

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 12:41 PM
I got a fifty spot that says we have a fully functional X-Wing rebel fighter jet.

LOL

I see what you've done here

Inkana7
06-24-2009, 12:41 PM
Er... China has 22 carriers. Where did you get this lol?

ROFL!

22?! Where? They have an old Soviet carrier being rebuilt right now, and that's it.

I got it from Wikipedia. It's kind of hard to hide a carrier.

You're so wrong, bro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_in_service

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:42 PM
ROFL!

22?! Where? They have an old Soviet carrier being rebuilt right now, and that's it.

I got it from Wikipedia. It's kind of hard to hide a carrier.

You're so wrong, bro.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_carriers_in_service

You're absolutly right, I'm wrong. Good on you.

I totally ****ed up when I read something. My other facts on China are wrong as well. I knew something was funny when I saw China had the worlds largest Air Force, even though I thought we did. Oh fun. But they do still have the largest army.

summerdenver
06-24-2009, 12:43 PM
Wipe us out? With what? Photoshop?

ROFL!

Bronx33
06-24-2009, 12:43 PM
Can we please get back to hatin on North korea?

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:44 PM
Can we please get back to hatin on North korea?

I hate when dem Mongorians breakin down mah chitty wall!

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 12:47 PM
You're absolutly right, I'm wrong. Good on you.

I totally ****ed up when I read something. My other facts on China are wrong as well. Oh fun. But they do still have the largest army.

Their large army is worthless as it immoble for the most part. Sitting ducks

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 12:47 PM
Can we please get back to hatin on North korea?

Why bother? North Korea doesn't have **** we want or need. **** em.

They can't and won't do ****.

****, if that little **** considered it, we could probably ask China to take care of it or face tariffs.

If Kim's little rants weren't hilariously amusing, we'd probably have CIA sniped his ass out long ago. We just let him live for the lulz.

Inkana7
06-24-2009, 12:48 PM
You're absolutly right, I'm wrong. Good on you.

I totally ****ed up when I read something. My other facts on China are wrong as well. I knew something was funny when I saw China had the worlds largest Air Force, even though I thought we did. Oh fun. But they do still have the largest army.

It's cool. They do have the largest army, but I'm fairly certain they conscript. I have faith in the abilities of our army and superior technology if we were ever to combat the Chinese.

Inkana7
06-24-2009, 12:49 PM
Why bother? North Korea doesn't have **** we want or need. **** em.

They can't and won't do ****.

****, if that little **** considered it, we could probably ask China to take care of it or face tariffs.

If Kim's little rants weren't hilariously amusing, we'd probably have CIA sniped his ass out long ago. We just let him live for the lulz.

Time's have been tough for the CIA ever since we made it illegal to assassinate world leaders.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 12:50 PM
TR-3B versus the rest of the planet.

Winner: TR-3B

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:51 PM
Why bother? North Korea doesn't have **** we want or need. **** em.

They can't and won't do ****.

****, if that little **** considered it, we could probably ask China to take care of it or face tariffs.

If Kim's little rants weren't hilariously amusing, we'd probably have CIA sniped his ass out long ago. We just let him live for the lulz.

I wish Matt and Trey would make Team America 2: Revenge of the Gyronians

Irish Stout
06-24-2009, 12:52 PM
I got a fifty spot that says we have a fully functioning star wars program

Didn't the Bush regime announce that the ballistic missle defense system was close to being operational and Russia got all pissed off just a couple years ago?

The BBC did an article this month stating how Russia was hoping Obama would be more reasonable than Bush and not follow through with Star Wars... but of course the Obama administration has nothing to say about it. Which is probably the smart move whether you're working on it or not.

Tombstone RJ
06-24-2009, 12:53 PM
What the US needs to do is get China actively involved in reigning in N. Korea. Diplomatically speaking, it would behoove the US to send an ambassador to China in order to open up negotiations on how to stop N. Korea's insane posturing.

China has just as much as everybody else to lose if N. Korea starts proliferating the spread of atomic weapons. A rogue state could detonate an atomic weapon just as easily in a port in Hong Kong as it can in a port in Los Angeles.

If China really wants to flex its muscles and become a true "superpower" it needs to get involved with N. Korea and tell them to back off.

Inkana7
06-24-2009, 12:53 PM
Didn't the Bush regime announce that the ballistic missle defense system was close to being operational and Russia got all pissed off just a couple years ago?

The BBC did an article this month stating how Russia was hoping Obama would be more reasonable than Bush and not follow through with Star Wars... but of course the Obama administration has nothing to say about it. Which is probably the smart move whether you're working on it or not.

Russia got all pissy because we were putting those systems in the Czech Republic and (I think) Poland. That's a little too close to home for Putin. Which is understandable. It'd be like Russia putting missile "defense" systems in Cuba or Guatemala.

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:54 PM
Didn't the Bush regime announce that the ballistic missle defense system was close to being operational and Russia got all pissed off just a couple years ago?

The BBC did an article this month stating how Russia was hoping Obama would be more reasonable than Bush and not follow through with Star Wars... but of course the Obama administration has nothing to say about it. Which is probably the smart move whether you're working on it or not.

It's pretty damn good atm. But it still has a slight chance to fail a hit. On top of that, it can be easily overwhelmed if a ton of nukes are fired... in which case, it's kind of useless.

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 12:54 PM
TR-3B versus the rest of the planet.

Winner: TR-3B

http://z.hubpages.com/u/1227410_f520.jpg

gyldenlove
06-24-2009, 12:55 PM
http://www.vacantready.com/images/Nov07/ugly-hotel.jpg

That's a monument to N. Korea's failure. This hotel that they've not been able to finish for YEARS.

I have seen abandoned projects that looked more inviting than that grey piece of ****.

It is like they just took all the grey in the world and put it in a big pile with little black squares in for good measure. If I was a mad dictator, I would have the arcitect drawn and quartered for that effront.

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 12:55 PM
What the US needs to do is get China actively involved in reigning in N. Korea. Diplomatically speaking, it would behoove the US to send an ambassador to China in order to open up negotiations on how to stop N. Korea's insane posturing.

China has just as much as everybody else to lose if N. Korea starts proliferating the spread of atomic weapons. A rogue state could detonate an atomic weapon just as easily in a port in Hong Kong as it can in a port in Los Angeles.

If China really wants to flex its muscles and become a true "superpower" it needs to get involved with N. Korea and tell them to back off.

The difference though is that N. Korea isn't going to nuke China... ever. They know that N. Korea isn't a threat to them, so they don't give a ****. Besides, what's better than the prospect of an an insane nation severely damaging your competition and you not having to take any of the fall for it.

If Japan goes bye bye, where is the world going to buy all their electronics from? (China)

Want to know who one of our best allies is going to be? INDIA

Hotrod
06-24-2009, 12:56 PM
IMHO China is laughing its ass off at both us and NK

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 12:58 PM
http://z.hubpages.com/u/1227410_f520.jpg

Intimidating?

A touch.

Compared to this army of loyal US scientists? Not at all.

http://www.insidesocal.com/godblog/Aliens.jpg

Tombstone RJ
06-24-2009, 01:01 PM
The difference though is that N. Korea isn't going to nuke China... ever.

N. Korea isn't going to nuke anyone anytime soon. They are "posturing" and nothing more. What they want the world to think is that they have the capability to send an ICBM to the US. They don't.

What N. Korea does have is the capability to produce nuclear bombs and sell them to rogue states. This is why the US and the Free World is scared. N. Korea can start producing nukes and selling them to the highest bidder.

China needs to acknowledge that they have just as much to lose buy this as the rest of the world. China needs to send a military attache to N. Korea and then politely yet strongly tell them that China will not allow N. Korea to proliferate nukes.

China can gain a whole hellava lot if they basically tell N. Korea "we can help you get your feet back on the ground, help you with your economy, etc., but you need to stop with this nuclear nonsense..."

HILife
06-24-2009, 01:11 PM
Or when you tell millions of people to worship you as a god and then starve them.

Eh, maybe he's dead too.. have we seen him lately? it wouldn't shock me if he had body doubles too like they used to accuse Francisco Franco of.

Doesn't matter. North Korea will still be North Korea. They have already picked Kim's successor. Would would have guessed it would be his son ????

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 01:13 PM
N. Korea isn't going to nuke anyone anytime soon. They are "posturing" and nothing more. What they want the world to think is that they have the capability to send an ICBM to the US. They don't.

What N. Korea does have is the capability to produce nuclear bombs and sell them to rogue states. This is why the US and the Free World is scared. N. Korea can start producing nukes and selling them to the highest bidder.

China needs to acknowledge that they have just as much to lose buy this as the rest of the world. China needs to send a military attache to N. Korea and then politely yet strongly tell them that China will not allow N. Korea to proliferate nukes.

China can gain a whole hellava lot if they basically tell N. Korea "we can help you get your feet back on the ground, help you with your economy, etc., but you need to stop with this nuclear nonsense..."

The rogue thing is a good point and I'm aware of that. People forget though that if NK has the ability to do that, another nuclear nation could transport and detonate a nuke within a city and NK would be blamed for it. It could get VERY VERY messy if NK becomes nuclear.

HILife
06-24-2009, 01:15 PM
http://z.hubpages.com/u/1227410_f520.jpg

Wow, that airship is hot. What store can I buy that at? Lowes?

Bronx33
06-24-2009, 01:22 PM
Heres the next idiot in charge

http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/world/gallery/2008/sep/12/1/55882477web-3208.jpg

Irish Stout
06-24-2009, 01:53 PM
Heres the next idiot in charge

http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/world/gallery/2008/sep/12/1/55882477web-3208.jpg

THIS IS GOOD NEWS!!! We can tempt him into peace with an offer of super seven inchers for everyone! Yay!:strong:

oubronco
06-24-2009, 02:53 PM
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj73/thereverend316/whatwhat.gif

WTF? :spit:

oubronco
06-24-2009, 02:54 PM
THIS IS GOOD NEWS!!! We can tempt him into peace with an offer of super seven inchers for everyone! Yay!:strong:

:notworthy Hilarious!

Archer81
06-24-2009, 02:59 PM
Good point. Do you think the Obama admin told them pre-presser the subject was off the board?


That shouldnt stop the media from asking the question.


:Broncos:

Beantown Bronco
06-24-2009, 03:00 PM
Or if Patton had been allowed to keep his tanks rolling toward Moscow?

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Hotrod
06-24-2009, 03:03 PM
That shouldnt stop the media from asking the question.


:Broncos:


Agreed but do you think they would take the chance knowing they would never get another press pass or asked another question.

Its wrong but I'd bet $ that it happens

24champ
06-24-2009, 03:03 PM
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/48/ahmadinejad.jpg

bronco militia
06-24-2009, 03:03 PM
THIS IS GOOD NEWS!!! We can tempt him into peace with an offer of super seven inchers for everyone! Yay!:strong:


:giggle:

Archer81
06-24-2009, 03:05 PM
Agreed but do you think they would take the chance knowing they would never get another press pass or asked another question.

Its wrong but I'd bet $ that it happens


I agree with you. Besides, Obama is busy getting his staff to plant questions from the huffington post.


:Broncos:

maher_tyler
06-24-2009, 03:07 PM
I didn't read anywhere in there that they are threatening us...if they are, hopefully they hold off till at least till i get there to go visit my wife next month!!

sisterhellfyre
06-24-2009, 03:24 PM
I have seen abandoned projects that looked more inviting than that grey piece of ****.

It gets better. The people working on it (construction company, contractors, penal battalion, whatever) used a substandard grade of concrete which is deteriorating and cracking. It's basically a pile of bare concrete, unsealed and unprotected from the effects of North Korean winters. There aren't even any windows in the thing. The building is unfinished, and it can never BE finished. It's all but abandoned except for birds nesting in it. Sooner or later it's going to collapse under its own weight. It's only a question of when, not if.

Even better yet: The North Korean government press agencies airbrush and crop the structure out of all official photos of Pyongyang. And since there aren't any except the official photos... well, you get the idea.

Rock Chalk
06-24-2009, 03:52 PM
So much has changed in almost 70 years. China no longer FEARS a re-armed Japan. Outside of nuclear weapons, China would swat Japan.

I disagree.

China understands that Japan is an industrial and technological powerhouse and within a short amount of time with US backing could be powerful military force, one that would easily threaten them.

China would not "swat" Japan. They may have more people, but technological superiority (and Japan has that over everyone except us) would win them countless battles with few casualties. Kinda like how the US militarily kicks everyone's ass because compared to us, everyone else is using rocks and sticks.

Besides, you missed the point. Its not whether Japan could defeat China or vice versa, its lingering resentment felt in China AND Korean against the Japanese. The Rape of Manchu is still fresh in their minds even though most of them that lived through that era are long dead. The Chinese do NOT want to see Japan re-armed, whether they can defeat them or not doesnt matter. The Chinese do not want it to happen, ever. Coupled with the fact that Japan would have the US and Britain's backing in any conflict, China would rather just stomp out NK and keep Japan passive and unarmed.

And I agree with the poster that Japan has every right to protect itself from threatening neighbors like NK. They have their self defense forces but its hardly a military capable of neutralizing a foreign threat from a distance.

Tombstone RJ
06-24-2009, 05:02 PM
The key to this problem is China. They have to step up to the plate. They have to be concerned about NK.

What the Chinese don't see is the massive financial potential they can gain by taking NK under their wing. Plus, the can unload some of their own military burden by stabilizing NK's convential forces.

Having NK as a trading partner with China, and a communist ally just makes sense. Too bad the Chinese don't see it this way.

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 05:15 PM
I'm sure somebody has mentioned this, but North Korea has the 2nd or 3rd largest standing army in the world. It's no joke ... obviously he can't attack us with it, but he can attack crucuail allies South Korea and Japan.

That said, something has to be done .... something MUST be done. CIA has to reach out to highly ranked generals, then maybe a massive leaflet drop over key cities ... MASSIVE.

This is a 1-person problem.

orinjkrush
06-24-2009, 05:19 PM
NK can sell/deploy a nuke on a freighter and launch an EMP strike. Read "one second after" to get a sense of that one.

China could reel NK in, in a heartbeat. But it's to their advantage to let the dog growl.

We could help Japan rearm.

We could drumbeat the two words China can't bear: Taiwan and Tibet.

And then they could cash us out.

Amazing what a pickle we're in.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 05:30 PM
NK can sell/deploy a nuke on a freighter and launch an EMP strike. Read "one second after" to get a sense of that one.

China could reel NK in, in a heartbeat. But it's to their advantage to let the dog growl.

We could help Japan rearm.

We could drumbeat the two words China can't bear: Taiwan and Tibet.

And then they could cash us out.

Amazing what a pickle we're in.

The guy holding the biggest stick is never in a pickle.

BroncoBuff
06-24-2009, 05:33 PM
Here you go .... night satellite photo.


Lights out in NK

http://www.auscillate.com/images/post_heads/dprk_at_night.jpg

Inkana7
06-24-2009, 07:10 PM
I'm sure somebody has mentioned this, but North Korea has the 2nd or 3rd largest standing army in the world. It's no joke ... obviously he can't attack us with it, but he can attack crucuail allies South Korea and Japan.

That said, something has to be done .... something MUST be done. CIA has to reach out to highly ranked generals, then maybe a massive leaflet drop over key cities ... MASSIVE.

This is a 1-person problem.

Well, we don't know if we can truly trust those numbers, considering PRK's penchant for lying to look good, and even if it is that big, it's just manpower. They're poorly trained and terribly under equipped. They're probably lucky to have MiG-21s and T-72s, which would be child's play for the South Korean and United States military.

cutthemdown
06-24-2009, 07:16 PM
I'm sure somebody has mentioned this, but North Korea has the 2nd or 3rd largest standing army in the world. It's no joke ... obviously he can't attack us with it, but he can attack crucuail allies South Korea and Japan.

That said, something has to be done .... something MUST be done. CIA has to reach out to highly ranked generals, then maybe a massive leaflet drop over key cities ... MASSIVE.

This is a 1-person problem.

really? I heard his sons are ready to continue on and may already be in control over certain security forces needed to maintain control.

If you killed Kim Jong I doubt the people left would be ready to play nice.

UberBroncoMan
06-24-2009, 07:49 PM
Here you go .... night satellite photo.


Lights out in NK

http://www.auscillate.com/images/post_heads/dprk_at_night.jpg

NK is such a boat of fail it's not even funny. The poor clueless civilians are living hundreds of years back in time.

maher_tyler
06-24-2009, 08:16 PM
NK is such a boat of fail it's not even funny. The poor clueless civilians are living hundreds of years back in time.

I couldn't even imagine living like that!!

ZONA
06-24-2009, 08:38 PM
North Korea is still pissed about the war in 53 and that their country is now divided. They morons. The might get one lame nuc off somewhere nearby and then they would be obliterated in weeks, and finally lose control of that country. We'd go in and take it over and occupy it for years and years. But unlike Iraq and the middle East, I think those people over there would be more then happy to finally be rid of their current leaders, and to join the rest of the normal world.

lazarus4444
06-24-2009, 08:42 PM
Go here and compare military might between USA and N. Korea, its actually pretty funny, :strong:

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison.asp

Archer81
06-24-2009, 08:43 PM
North Korea is still pissed about the war in 53 and that their country is now divided. They morons. The might get one lame nuc off somewhere nearby and then they would be obliterated in weeks, and finally lose control of that country. We'd go in and take it over and occupy it for years and years. But unlike Iraq and the middle East, I think those people over there would be more then happy to finally be rid of their current leaders, and to join the rest of the normal world.


Iraq was thrilled to be done with Saddam. But NK would be a tough one, not because the people wouldnt welcome change. But imagine everything that would need to be done to make NK worth integrating with SK, including rehabbing the people.

:Broncos:

Dukes
06-24-2009, 08:46 PM
Go here and compare military might between USA and N. Korea, its actually pretty funny, :strong:

http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison.asp

Not quite as funny when you compare the US against China

Broncojef
06-24-2009, 08:47 PM
NK is such a boat of fail it's not even funny. The poor clueless civilians are living hundreds of years back in time.

Do they even realize it though? The media is controlled, the leadership tells them what they want them to hear. In their minds the rest of the world may be evil and they may be living on the cutting edge of technology. They are so clueless they don't know what there is to revolt against. At least in Iran the younger generation gets it and wants something better.

lazarus4444
06-25-2009, 08:48 AM
Not quite as funny when you compare the US against China

Yes but there are two key elements at play here:

Total Air-Based Weapons

China=1,900 USA=18,169



Total Naval Units

China= 760 USA=1,559

Sea and Air power, especially AIR power wins.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-25-2009, 08:52 AM
I agree with you. Besides, Obama is busy getting his staff to plant questions from the huffington post.


:Broncos:

Oh jeez, why are republicans so up in arms over this? It's ONE question because a blogger at the HuffPo had this very unique access to Iranians. The question asked was better than the usual fluff you get.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-25-2009, 08:53 AM
Not quite as funny when you compare the US against China

China does not wanna go to war with us. That country has enough problems

SonOfLe-loLang
06-25-2009, 08:54 AM
By far my favorite thing about North Korea. This is a great microcosm of the joke they are:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel

Rohirrim
06-25-2009, 08:54 AM
Iraq was thrilled to be done with Saddam. But NK would be a tough one, not because the people wouldnt welcome change. But imagine everything that would need to be done to make NK worth integrating with SK, including rehabbing the people.

:Broncos:

It would be an entire country suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. I can't imagine the damage these people have undergone: Fear, oppression, brutality and starvation for generations. It would be like waking up twenty million icemen and walking them out into the light of the modern world.

epicSocialism4tw
06-25-2009, 09:30 AM
Oh jeez, why are republicans so up in arms over this? It's ONE question because a blogger at the HuffPo had this very unique access to Iranians. The question asked was better than the usual fluff you get.

It was silly because Obama basically advertised for the kid.

cutthemdown
06-25-2009, 09:35 AM
It would be an entire country suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. I can't imagine the damage these people have undergone: Fear, oppression, brutality and starvation for generations. It would be like waking up twenty million icemen and walking them out into the light of the modern world.

I wonder if they really believe that Kim Jong doesn't go poop.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-25-2009, 09:38 AM
It was silly because Obama basically advertised for the kid.

He did so because the question was coming from iranians themselves. Why anyone is bitching about this is weird.

epicSocialism4tw
06-25-2009, 09:55 AM
He did so because the question was coming from iranians themselves. Why anyone is b****ing about this is weird.

Nah...I see it as a cheapening of the office of the President. Nothing serious, but a little bit of nonchalance towards the importance of maintaining integrity in the office.

You dont promote the huffington post clown at the expense of the white house and expect people to say "Oh...that was classy!"

Rohirrim
06-25-2009, 09:56 AM
I wonder if they really believe that Kim Jong doesn't go poop.

I'm sure they are too afraid to voice an opinion on that one way or the other. Let your neighbor hear you say the wrong thing and you go the labor camps.

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 09:59 AM
Oddly, not a single mention of NK in Obama's presser yesterday. This struck me as odd, given the bold statements coming out of there. NK makes Iran look like Switzerland at the moment. I'd be a bit uneasy if I was in the DMZ or Okinawa.

Is anyone else of the opinion that we're about to see an Asian nuclear arms race touched off very soon? Japan's gonna push it, South Korea has no choice but to consider it, and Taiwan probably hasn't ruled it out.

It's interesting what N. Asia will look like post-nuclear NK.

What's scary is China has no control over NK. The missiles and nukes NK has can hit Beijing in about 5 minutes.

It's interesting that Kim has never visited China, but he has gone on extensive jaunts to Russia.

It's interesting that China had to amass something like six Divisions of armored infantry on the border to NK in order to get Kim to join the Six Party Talks.

I'd like to find out where NK got their nuclear technology from. I bet they got it from Russia. What few people know is NK has a border with Russia, a rail link from Pyongyang to Moscow. Kim has visited Russia at least twice I know of since China massed those six Armored divisions on their common border with NK.

Rohirrim
06-25-2009, 09:59 AM
Nah...I see it as a cheapening of the office of the President. Nothing serious, but a little bit of nonchalance towards the importance of maintaining integrity in the office.

You dont promote the huffington post clown at the expense of the white house and expect people to say "Oh...that was classy!"

He rewarded the Huffpost for being the only media entity that jumped right in and started coverage of the Iranian mess from the get go. The rest of those numb nuts from the "major media" sat on their hands for two days. Judging by Obama's comments to the press lately, he was giving them a nice little slap upside the head and telling them to go out and do their jobs and quit hanging around the WH scarfing up the free food and coffee.

epicSocialism4tw
06-25-2009, 10:03 AM
He rewarded the Huffpost for being the only media entity that jumped right in and started coverage of the Iranian mess from the get go. The rest of those numb nuts from the "major media" sat on their hands for two days. Judging by Obama's comments to the press lately, he was giving them a nice little slap upside the head and telling them to go out and do their jobs and quit hanging around the WH scarfing up the free food and coffee.

They deserve the free food and coffee, given the way that they have willingly caressed the public image of Obama for over a year now.

The "major media" (like the unbiased George Stephanopolous) were just waiting for Obama to deliver the party line before they commenced.

Rohirrim
06-25-2009, 10:05 AM
They deserve the free food and coffee, given the way that they have willingly caressed the public image of Obama for over a year now.

The "major media" (like the unbiased George Stephanopolous) were just waiting for Obama to deliver the party line before they commenced.

I like how you just make **** up. I doubt that anybody is dumb enough to buy it. They might have caressed Obama but they were fellating Bush for eight years. Ha!

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 10:08 AM
This is what I think could happen.

NK is going to keep pushing and threatening both the US and Japan. Japan's hawks are going to get the public approval to rewrite their constitution allowing them to re-arm. The moment this becomes public knowledge, China is going to step in and kick NKs ass in the dirt.

China has suffered through two brutal Japanese invasions and they have absolutely no interest in Japan re-arming.

The US policy should be to advocate Japan's re-arming of themselves, to help push China in the direction of controlling that piece of **** in North Korea.

The hawks in Japan have been pushing for this for a while but the doves have, so far, kept them at bay. But NK keeps firing missles over sovereign Japanese territory and the people will demand that Japan take action. The Japanese, right now, are a very passive folk but there is only so long you will be able to push them.

That could end up being true, but I think China is scared ****less of NK also. Those missiles NK has could land in Beijing as fast as they could in Tokyo.

I think China has very little leverage over Pyongyang. This Kim, his daddy, and his granddaddy have been playing Moscow against Beijing against Tokyo against Washington for a long time, and look how they've come up smelling good still. Pyongyang is a major force in North Asia, starving people or no.

I smell a rat where Moscow is concerned. NK was always a major Soviet client state from WWII on through the Cold War. A major, major Soviet client. The USSR made sure they had a common border with NK after the turmoil of WWII, and they surely have made hay with that border.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-25-2009, 10:17 AM
I like how you just make **** up. I doubt that anybody is dumb enough to buy it. They might have caressed Obama but they were fellating Bush for eight years. Ha!

Not to mention, Bush would plant people all the time to toss him softballs. They are just finding something else to bitch about.

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 10:18 AM
Even a nut like Kim Jong Il probably understands it does them no good to bomb anyone. While north korea may have some ****ty nukes that may or may not work all that well, the country is beyond poor and really poses no threat beyond an initial strike. Nazi Germany this is not, not to mention, they don't really have an ally as China wouldn't side with them in a war.

The one thing I do not understand about them is what they are after. Do they just want to be recognized as a bad ass on the global stage? That said, the news that comes out of that country is often funny. It's good to know that the first time Kim played golf, he got 11 holes in one. Or that they have trees that can bear fruit in the winter. Or that during their last "election," Kim got 99.9 percent of the vote! Or that during his birthday celebration he gave the entire north korean population a pair of a shoes. See, he's a nice guy.

Yup, they want to be recognized as a badass. Korea was the crap of Asia for a long time. 'Garlic eaters', 'the penis of Asia', a nothing, a backwater. It's not like they have geographic advantages. They're a very poor country, disadvantaged geographically North or South, dominated by China and Japan historically.

But, they're some tough sumbitches.

Pontius Pirate
06-25-2009, 10:18 AM
So here's my question: what's the difference between Vietnam in the 60's and NK today?

Meaning, if we got into a ground war with NK (a la Iraq), wouldn't they fight us the same way they Vietnamese did? Both are communist countries, right?

Are we assuming the NK military would just drop their guns and meet us with open arms?

sisterhellfyre
06-25-2009, 10:19 AM
It's interesting that Kim has never visited China, but he has gone on extensive jaunts to Russia.

There are whole levels to the geopolitical strategies of Northern Asia that we as Americans probably don't really get. There are centuries of resentment and hatred between the Koreas, China and Japan. The Chinese and Japanese both have exploited the Korean people at just about every opportunity. Calling a Chinese a Korean, or vice versa, is still a nasty insult. Not quite up there with the "n"-word, but close.

On top of that, the Russians and the Chinese have not exactly been the best of friends, dating back to their Communist regimes. Each denounced the other as fakes and heretics, "cults of personality," etc. The Chinese have their eye on the raw material resources of Siberia, but the Russians have no intention to give up even one inch of Holy Mother Russia. The Russians have not at all forgotten about Genghis Khan sweeping through Russia on the way to Europe, and they still fear a repeat. Border conflicts between the two go all the way back to the 1600s, and very nearly brought them to open war as recently as 1969.

Since the truce in 1953, the Kim dynasty has done a fantastic job of playing off the Russians against the Chinese. Personally, I'm thinking that the Kims' game may be coming to an end as both the Russians *and* Chinese have signed on with the latest UN sanctions. Looks to me like they're both realizing the "Dear Comrade" has become too psychotic and too dangerous, so they're hoping to reel him in some. It may be too little, too late, or both.

I don't hold out much hope that Kim's 26-yo kid, dubbed the "Brilliant Comrade," will be any better.

Rohirrim
06-25-2009, 10:28 AM
So here's my question: what's the difference between Vietnam in the 60's and NK today?

Meaning, if we got into a ground war with NK (a la Iraq), wouldn't they fight us the same way they Vietnamese did? Both are communist countries, right?

Are we assuming the NK military would just drop their guns and meet us with open arms?

Except Vietnam was covered in jungle and NK is relatively barren.

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 10:30 AM
I find it interesting that America is so incredibly invested in the Iran election. Is it our history with Iran? is it the fact that their current president is a bit of a nutjob? Is it the fact that they control oil? Our media sure spends a ton of time concentrating on Iran. Had this happened in Belarus, no one here would give half a ****.

Not to mention, it'snot like Mousavi (sp) is really much better than ahmadinjad (sp). Probably like choosing between Bush and Cheney. That said, i think the most important thing to come from these protests are that the people are beginning to challenge the Ayatollah. This is hardly a revolution yet, but maybe the beginning of something.

Maybe we can bring back the Ayatollah Assahola t-shirts?

Iran is a very influential and powerful nation, that's why they're important. They also have a lot of ties to the US. Positive ties as well as negative.

Persians have always been a major player in the MidEast from way, way back, right back to recorded history. We better pay attention to Iran, because they are a major player in the MidEast.

Pontius Pirate
06-25-2009, 10:34 AM
Except Vietnam was covered in jungle and NK is relatively barren.

Okay, no jungles - check. Actually, I think NK is mostly mountainous:

"Some 80% of North Korea is composed of mountains and uplands, separated by deep and narrow valleys, with all of the peninsula's mountains with elevations of 2000 meters or more located in North Korea. The coastal plains are wide in the west and discontinuous in the east. The great majority of the population lives in the plains and lowlands"

Still, my question is: is it safe to assume it would be a traditional war, or would we expect that the NK people would fight for their nation a la an insurgency?

Rohirrim
06-25-2009, 10:34 AM
Now they are threatening a "fire shower of nuclear retalitation" if the U.S. attacks. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/25/north-korea-threatens-a-f_n_220616.html

These guys are seriously nuts.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-25-2009, 10:36 AM
Iran is a very influential and powerful nation, that's why they're important. They also have a lot of ties to the US. Positive ties as well as negative.

Persians have always been a major player in the MidEast from way, way back, right back to recorded history. We better pay attention to Iran, because they are a major player in the MidEast.

Then its really just about oil. I just think a lot of it is a media creation.

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 10:42 AM
There are whole levels to the geopolitical strategies of Northern Asia that we as Americans probably don't really get. There are centuries of resentment and hatred between the Koreas, China and Japan. The Chinese and Japanese both have exploited the Korean people at just about every opportunity. Calling a Chinese a Korean, or vice versa, is still a nasty insult. Not quite up there with the "n"-word, but close.

On top of that, the Russians and the Chinese have not exactly been the best of friends, dating back to their Communist regimes. Each denounced the other as fakes and heretics, "cults of personality," etc. The Chinese have their eye on the raw material resources of Siberia, but the Russians have no intention to give up even one inch of Holy Mother Russia. The Russians have not at all forgotten about Genghis Khan sweeping through Russia on the way to Europe, and they still fear a repeat. Border conflicts between the two go all the way back to the 1600s, and very nearly brought them to open war as recently as 1969.

Since the truce in 1953, the Kim dynasty has done a fantastic job of playing off the Russians against the Chinese. Personally, I'm thinking that the Kims' game may be coming to an end as both the Russians *and* Chinese have signed on with the latest UN sanctions. Looks to me like they're both realizing the "Dear Comrade" has become too psychotic and too dangerous, so they're hoping to reel him in some. It may be too little, too late, or both.

I don't hold out much hope that Kim's 26-yo kid, dubbed the "Brilliant Comrade," will be any better.

yah, too little, too late. Those two created the monster.

Rohirrim
06-25-2009, 10:43 AM
Okay, no jungles - check. Actually, I think NK is mostly mountainous:

"Some 80% of North Korea is composed of mountains and uplands, separated by deep and narrow valleys, with all of the peninsula's mountains with elevations of 2000 meters or more located in North Korea. The coastal plains are wide in the west and discontinuous in the east. The great majority of the population lives in the plains and lowlands"

Still, my question is: is it safe to assume it would be a traditional war, or would we expect that the NK people would fight for their nation a la an insurgency?

In the first place, we would definitely not be the ones making the first move. I'm guessing the most likely scenario would be that nutjob in Pyongyang sends his army across the 38th parallel and after air power obliterates them even worse than the Iraqis, they start surrendering in droves. How many of these oppressed people are going to choose to die for this little ****head?

Irish Stout
06-25-2009, 10:44 AM
So here's my question: what's the difference between Vietnam in the 60's and NK today?

Meaning, if we got into a ground war with NK (a la Iraq), wouldn't they fight us the same way they Vietnamese did? Both are communist countries, right?

Are we assuming the NK military would just drop their guns and meet us with open arms?

The military - No. The people once the military is out of the picture - maybe.

While there is a chance that we'd lose a war in NK, the people will not welcome us with open arms because they will fear their dictator more than us. Plus NK is one of the best examples in the world of brainwashing and controlling an entire country. People aren't allowed to leave. All the lights in the country turn off at 10pm. All news is controlled by the government. South Koreans have for years been trying to get real information into NK to the people (many are illiterate) in hopes that if the people understood the world beyond their borders they might rise up.

Its always been an amazing sociological and phsycological conudrum to me of how and why people follow their government when they know its wrong. A lot of people in Nazi Germany didn't agree with Hitler at all but whether fear or otherwise, they still fell in line.

cutthemdown
06-25-2009, 10:54 AM
I doubt we will be fighting an all out war with N Korea. One thing Kim Jong likes is his luxury, his toys. I'm sure his sons the same way. One thing is certain if conflict breaks out into war the life the Kim Jong clan lives would be over.

They say the families prized toy is that fancy train he rides around on. All those type of things would be destroyed within a few days of bombing.

cutthemdown
06-25-2009, 10:56 AM
The military - No. The people once the military is out of the picture - maybe.

While there is a chance that we'd lose a war in NK, the people will not welcome us with open arms because they will fear their dictator more than us. Plus NK is one of the best examples in the world of brainwashing and controlling an entire country. People aren't allowed to leave. All the lights in the country turn off at 10pm. All news is controlled by the government. South Koreans have for years been trying to get real information into NK to the people (many are illiterate) in hopes that if the people understood the world beyond their borders they might rise up.

Its always been an amazing sociological and phsycological conudrum to me of how and why people follow their government when they know its wrong. A lot of people in Nazi Germany didn't agree with Hitler at all but whether fear or otherwise, they still fell in line.

Also there is no chance we would lose a war with N Korea. We could completely destroy there standing army within 6 months I would think.

They have 100 subs, we would sink them all, we would destroy probably 60-70% of there coastal patrol boats within a couple weeks.

The only thing that could save N Korea is the same thing that saved them in the 50's...........BIG BROTHER CHINA!!!!!

If China decides N Korea is no longer in there interests to protect then N Korea is screwed.

epicSocialism4tw
06-25-2009, 10:57 AM
I like how you just make **** up. I doubt that anybody is dumb enough to buy it. They might have caressed Obama but they were fellating Bush for eight years.

Okay. So I'm making up the fact that George Stephanopolous still works as a strategist for the Democratic party?

Pull your head out of the sand, chico.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stephanopoulos

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 10:58 AM
Then its really just about oil. I just think a lot of it is a media creation.

No, it's not just about oil.

You have to separate the extremists from the regular people that just want to live their lives. 90% of Iranians, Egyptians, Lebanese, they just want to live their lives.

The object for the world community is to eliminate the extremists. It's always the 10% of extremists that create 99% of the problems. I don't give a damn if the UN creates assassination squads on that 10% of extremists, even if it includes Pat Robertson. The extremists are the problem, not a whole nation.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-25-2009, 11:03 AM
No, it's not just about oil.

You have to separate the extremists from the regular people that just want to live their lives. 90% of Iranians, Egyptians, Lebanese, they just want to live their lives.

The object for the world community is to eliminate the extremists. It's always the 10% of extremists that create 99% of the problems. I don't give a damn if the UN creates assassination squads on that 10% of extremists, even if it includes Pat Robertson. The extremists are the problem, not a whole nation.

I don't understand your point. I was talking about Iranian influence and how the media handles the iranian issues.

But on the subject of islamic terrorism, i think its probably the most overblown fear in recent times. Not to say it shouldnt be taken seriously, but it shouldnt have changed the course of US foreign policy forever. But yes, i stand by my statement, this all comes back to oil, speaking from the bigger picture.

cutthemdown
06-25-2009, 11:05 AM
SO we have a country that just detonated a nuke that is threatening to use them on us?

I think we would have been better off dealing with this during Clintons administration and early on in Bush Jr's, but Clinton chose to believe he could negotiate, and Bush sort of just talked tough but didn't do anything about it.

At some point we have to deal with this before they get advanced in nukes to the point they can actually use them in a weapon.

Maybe we should just wait until the are testing a nuke, then just drop a nuke on them. After we say it must have been an accident we did nothing!!!!

Then we can say see what happens when you play with nukes!!!!!!

cutthemdown
06-25-2009, 11:06 AM
In the first place, we would definitely not be the ones making the first move. I'm guessing the most likely scenario would be that nutjob in Pyongyang sends his army across the 38th parallel and after air power obliterates them even worse than the Iraqis, they start surrendering in droves. How many of these oppressed people are going to choose to die for this little ****head?

If we could create some sort of incident that further divides China and Russia from N Korea that would be great.

Once China and Russia tire of N Korea its all over for them IMO.

cutthemdown
06-25-2009, 11:08 AM
I think China to the point the are a little worried about N Korea having nukes.

N Korea goes nuts and tries to nukes Japan no way China escapes without damage.

Most likely USA would respond with some sub fired tactical nukes and now China has radiation floating all over the border.

I wouldn't be surprised in China is really starting to re-think what they have to gain by defending N Korea.

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 11:16 AM
Okay, no jungles - check. Actually, I think NK is mostly mountainous:

"Some 80% of North Korea is composed of mountains and uplands, separated by deep and narrow valleys, with all of the peninsula's mountains with elevations of 2000 meters or more located in North Korea. The coastal plains are wide in the west and discontinuous in the east. The great majority of the population lives in the plains and lowlands"

Still, my question is: is it safe to assume it would be a traditional war, or would we expect that the NK people would fight for their nation a la an insurgency?

Yup, Korea is not geographically advantaged. They've had to fight tooth and nail to maintain their independence. They're a tough people.

You miss the point about the nuclear aspirations from the Koreans.

They won't have to fight an insurgency from their rough terrain.

Nobody will invade them if they have nuclear weapons and delivery systems.

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 11:22 AM
SO we have a country that just detonated a nuke that is threatening to use them on us?

I think we would have been better off dealing with this during Clintons administration and early on in Bush Jr's, but Clinton chose to believe he could negotiate, and Bush sort of just talked tough but didn't do anything about it.

At some point we have to deal with this before they get advanced in nukes to the point they can actually use them in a weapon.

Maybe we should just wait until the are testing a nuke, then just drop a nuke on them. After we say it must have been an accident we did nothing!!!!

Then we can say see what happens when you play with nukes!!!!!!

Bombing everything they had was the first option from way back to the early 1990's.

Trouble is China and Russia protected NK, threatening concomitant action against Taiwan, Poland, etc.

China and Russia built the monster, the idiots. Now they can't control the monster. Too bad we can't punish them.

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 11:29 AM
In the first place, we would definitely not be the ones making the first move. I'm guessing the most likely scenario would be that nutjob in Pyongyang sends his army across the 38th parallel and after air power obliterates them even worse than the Iraqis, they start surrendering in droves. How many of these oppressed people are going to choose to die for this little ****head?

You make the mistake of thinking Kim is a nutjob. You're way off the mark there. Dude's very clever, same as his daddy.

Kim has done a masterful job of playing the superpowers against each other and protecting his own country.

Rohirrim
06-25-2009, 11:38 AM
You make the mistake of thinking Kim is a nutjob. You're way off the mark there. Dude's very clever, same as his daddy.

Kim has done a masterful job of playing the superpowers against each other and protecting his own country.

No. The guy is a huge nutjob. That doesn't mean he is not clever, or cunning. The guy fills an auditorium with people who he forces to praise him like a god, in unison. Ergo, nutjob.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-25-2009, 11:39 AM
You make the mistake of thinking Kim is a nutjob. You're way off the mark there. Dude's very clever, same as his daddy.

Kim has done a masterful job of playing the superpowers against each other and protecting his own country.

Def a nutjob and a supreme egotist. And perhaps he's done a good job at protecting HIMSELF, but that country is poor as **** with many people starving. They have essentially ONE trade partner. I wouldnt say he's protecting them.

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 11:41 AM
SO we have a country that just detonated a nuke that is threatening to use them on us?

I think we would have been better off dealing with this during Clintons administration and early on in Bush Jr's, but Clinton chose to believe he could negotiate, and Bush sort of just talked tough but didn't do anything about it.

At some point we have to deal with this before they get advanced in nukes to the point they can actually use them in a weapon.

Maybe we should just wait until the are testing a nuke, then just drop a nuke on them. After we say it must have been an accident we did nothing!!!!

Then we can say see what happens when you play with nukes!!!!!!

Don't get too cavalier saying "just drop a nuke on them." That opens up a new can of worms we don't want to get into, eh?

It's messy. Opening the nuclear can of worms is absolutely not the way to go.

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 11:46 AM
If we could create some sort of incident that further divides China and Russia from N Korea that would be great.

Once China and Russia tire of N Korea its all over for them IMO.

Certainly.

But they let NK get to the point where NK can hold them hostage.

Those missiles NK has can hit Beijing easy. And NK has proven nuclear capability to go with the missiles. I'm convinced Moscow gave them the missile technology and probably the nuclear technology also. Pakistan also got the nuclear technology from Moscow.

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 11:49 AM
I think China to the point the are a little worried about N Korea having nukes.

N Korea goes nuts and tries to nukes Japan no way China escapes without damage.

Most likely USA would respond with some sub fired tactical nukes and now China has radiation floating all over the border.

I wouldn't be surprised in China is really starting to re-think what they have to gain by defending N Korea.

Duh.

Hopefully nobody gets too carried away and starts lobbing nukes.

But, who knows?

Pontius Pirate
06-25-2009, 11:54 AM
This just in:

"Punching their fists into the air and shouting "Let's crush them!" some 100,000 North Koreans packed Pyongyang's main square Thursday for an anti-U.S. rally as the communist regime promised a "fire shower of nuclear retaliation" for any American-led attack."

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 11:55 AM
No. The guy is a huge nutjob. That doesn't mean he is not clever, or cunning. The guy fills an auditorium with people who he forces to praise him like a god, in unison. Ergo, nutjob.

I can see the nutjob angle. It's not like he's done well for his people. Dude made a power play, we'll see how it works out now China and Russia are finally against him.

Who knows how those two will play it.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-25-2009, 11:56 AM
This just in:

"Punching their fists into the air and shouting "Let's crush them!" some 100,000 North Koreans packed Pyongyang's main square Thursday for an anti-U.S. rally as the communist regime promised a "fire shower of nuclear retaliation" for any American-led attack."

Who knows what propaganda they are telling them

Cito Pelon
06-25-2009, 12:03 PM
Def a nutjob and a supreme egotist. And perhaps he's done a good job at protecting HIMSELF, but that country is poor as **** with many people starving. They have essentially ONE trade partner. I wouldnt say he's protecting them.

I can argue the ONE trade partner is held hostage by Kim to provide the trade goods.

Now finally the entire UN Security Council is against him - remember either China or Russia vetoed prior resolutions - maybe he's racked in.

We'll see. Kim built up a lot of power while China and Russia supported him. It was a mistake as I've said for about 15 years.

Now, we can't even punish China or Russia. Ugly situation.

Kim can hold China hostage for trade as long as he wants right now. Easily. Kim can drop a missile on Beijing any time he wants. I bet China made a deal with him to not drop a missile on Beijing during the Olympics. China reaped what they sowed.

Bronx33
06-25-2009, 01:12 PM
This just in:

"Punching their fists into the air and shouting "Let's crush them!" some 100,000 North Koreans were forced into Pyongyang's main square Thursday for an anti-U.S. rally as the communist regime promised a "fire shower of nuclear retaliation" for any American-led attack."


Fixed...

Bronx33
06-25-2009, 01:24 PM
Damn! if there was only one North Korean blogger to taunt i could have some real fun.

cutthemdown
06-25-2009, 01:48 PM
Certainly.

But they let NK get to the point where NK can hold them hostage.

Those missiles NK has can hit Beijing easy. And NK has proven nuclear capability to go with the missiles. I'm convinced Moscow gave them the missile technology and probably the nuclear technology also. Pakistan also got the nuclear technology from Moscow.

dude you realize they still use liquid fuel and that they have to fuel those missiles right? They aren't near as capable as you make them out to be.

Basically there missiles are a lot like the scuds Iraq fired at Israel.

At this point we could still take them out rather easily. They detonated a nuke underground with months to prepare it. Sticking it on a missile on a whole other level and they aren't ever going to be allowed to reach that point.

Bronx33
06-25-2009, 01:54 PM
Don't we have submarines off the coast to intercept anything inbound? it seems fairly easy to shoot em down.

epicSocialism4tw
06-25-2009, 01:56 PM
dude you realize they still use liquid fuel and that they have to fuel those missiles right? They aren't near as capable as you make them out to be.

Basically there missiles are a lot like the scuds Iraq fired at Israel.

At this point we could still take them out rather easily. They detonated a nuke underground with months to prepare it. Sticking it on a missile on a whole other level and they aren't ever going to be allowed to reach that point.


With this current administrations growing international reputation as a pushover, I dont see them as having anything in the way to stop them from trying.

cutthemdown
06-25-2009, 02:01 PM
Don't we have submarines off the coast to intercept anything inbound? it seems fairly easy to shoot em down.

i think we use missile cruisers for stuff like that right? Big ships that have a giant dome go out and use radar, then surface ships fire the interceptors.

I guess subs could also but they more lurk to fire the big boy missiles I think. Also I think they figure subs better left not giving away position very often.

I could be wrong though I'm just guessing.

Bronx33
06-25-2009, 02:01 PM
and the thread goes political 3-2-1...

Bronx33
06-25-2009, 02:04 PM
i think we use missile cruisers for stuff like that right? Big ships that have a giant dome go out and use radar, then surface ships fire the interceptors.

I guess subs could also but they more lurk to fire the big boy missiles I think. Also I think they figure subs better left not giving away position very often.

I could be wrong though I'm just guessing.


We just shot a Satellite in space i would think we could hit a scud missle lumbering across europe.

Rohirrim
06-25-2009, 02:04 PM
With this current administrations growing international reputation as a pushover, I dont see them as having anything in the way to stop them from trying.

You're just spouting the opposition drivel designed for home comsumption. Judging by this admin's actions in Afghanistan, nobody outside of the rightard fringe in this country believes it.

Inkana7
06-25-2009, 03:18 PM
With this current administrations growing international reputation as a pushover, I dont see them as having anything in the way to stop them from trying.

I'm glad we have someone with a hand on the international pulse like you!

You don't have anything to back up this opinion. Somehow being a little less arrogant to the world and actually *gasp* acknowledging past mistakes in foreign policy is being a pushover? Please.

Seamus
06-25-2009, 03:49 PM
The issue with North Korea is the close proximity to Seoul. A ship off the coast or satellite far enough to be in a geosynchronous orbit are too far away to intercept anything heading for Seoul.

Also recall there are several tens of thousands of US military troops in the country, I was part of this in the late 80's.

The statement about not being proactive isn't a option if you are going to protect Seoul. Currently there should be a U2/TR-1 right now flying along the NK border peering into the country looking for troop movement or missile preparation. This type of surveillance has been around for years, to prepare the south if an aggressive movement is made.

Bronx33
06-25-2009, 03:53 PM
You know what would be really cool if obama challenged kim jong ill to a fist fist right on the 38th parallel for all the marbles i would bet the mickey mouse lovin freak would back down.

Punisher
06-26-2009, 05:55 AM
I say Nuke them now,just for even putting USA and Fire storm in the same sentence.And i see their rally on TV.What the hell is with these people?It was like 900 NK out on the street saluting don't they have something better to do like watch the NBA Draft or go to the movies and watch Transformers.

I guess their country is so boring they have to start a "Nuklear war".

Maximus
06-26-2009, 05:57 AM
I say Nuke them now,just for even putting USA and Fire storm in the same sentence.And i see their rally on TV.What the hell is with these people?It was like 900 NK out on the street saluting don't they have something better to do like watch the NBA Draft or go to the movies and watch Transformers.

I guess their country is so boring they have to start a "Nuklear war".

Anyone know what the half life of the radio active matter contained within a neutron bomb???

Odysseus
06-26-2009, 06:15 AM
Oddly, not a single mention of NK in Obama's presser yesterday. This struck me as odd, given the bold statements coming out of there. NK makes Iran look like Switzerland at the moment. I'd be a bit uneasy if I was in the DMZ or Okinawa.

Is anyone else of the opinion that we're about to see an Asian nuclear arms race touched off very soon? Japan's gonna push it, South Korea has no choice but to consider it, and Taiwan probably hasn't ruled it out.

North Korea is a wildcard and dangerous but they are nowhere near as dangerous as some of the other real time situations that we are facing right now. Kim is always posturing. You cannot overreact to everything a POLITICIAN says or does not say.

Odysseus
06-26-2009, 06:18 AM
You know what would be really cool if obama challenged kim jong ill to a fist fist right on the 38th parallel for all the marbles i would bet the mickey mouse lovin freak would back down.

It would be like fighting a corpse. Kim is a sick man. What worries me is his 26year old son and what his agenda would be.

Kim is just showing fear if you want to know the truth of it.

Punisher
06-26-2009, 06:29 AM
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Beantown Bronco
06-26-2009, 06:45 AM
You know what would be really cool if obama challenged kim jong ill to a fist fist right on the 38th parallel for all the marbles i would bet the mickey mouse lovin freak would back down.

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SleepingTiger
06-26-2009, 07:29 AM
We just shot a Satellite in space i would think we could hit a scud missle lumbering across europe.

i wouldn't say lumbering. I saw on the military channel the problems with shooting down a missle like the SCUD.

1. Their re-entry speed on a SCUD around 10,000mph.

2. Patriot missle system actually didn't hit anything during the first gulf war. The explosion you saw was actually the operator detonating the missle because it missed the target to prevent if falling back to earth and cause damage.

3. The Patriot missle system was designed for shooting down MIGs going Mach 2 not a missle doing Mach 15.

24champ
07-08-2009, 06:42 AM
SEOUL, South Korea South Korean intelligence officials believe North Korea or pro-Pyongyang forces committed cyber attacks that paralyzed major South Korean and U.S. government Web sites, aides to two lawmakers said Wednesday.

The sites of 11 South Korean organizations, including the presidential Blue House and the Defense Ministry, went down or had access problems since late Tuesday, according to the state-run Korea Information Security Agency. Agency spokeswoman Ahn Jeong-eun said 11 U.S. sites suffered similar problems. She said the agency is investigating the case with police and prosecutors.

In the U.S., the Treasury Department, Secret Service, Federal Trade Commission and Transportation Department Web sites were all down at varying points over the July 4 holiday weekend and into this week, according to American officials inside and outside the government.

Others familiar with the U.S. outage, which is called a denial of service attack, said that the fact that the government Web sites were still being affected three days after it began signaled an unusually lengthy and sophisticated attack. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak on the matter.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090708/ap_on_re_as/as_skorea_cyber_attack