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View Full Version : Greg Jennings Deal Done- Template for BM??


rugbythug
06-23-2009, 07:41 PM
On the heels of a local Milwaukee TV report that Greg Jennings’ contract extension has been finalized, more details about the proposed deal are emerging.

ESPN.com’s John Clayton says the Packers and Jennings are nearing a three-year contract extension through 2012 that will include a minimum of $27 million in new money. It can be worth as much as $30 million if he performs at a “Pro Bowl level.” Jennings was scheduled to make $535,000 in 2009.

Clayton also reports that some language in the contract has to be worked out before it is sent to the NFL Management Council and signed. So it’s not exactly a “done deal” just yet.

The original report by Fox6 Sports said Jennings would become the second highest paid receiver in the league, but that is open for interpretation. Clayton’s numbers indicate that Jennings will average under $7 million for the next four seasons.

T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Roy Williams, and Andre Johnson all make more money per season. Antonio Bryant will make $9.88 million as Tampa’s franchise player in 2009.

Still, the deal looks like a fair one for both sides. Jennings didn’t break the bank, but he’s likely to make it to the end of the contract, barring major injuries. He will get to re-enter the free agent market in 2013 at age 29, and possibly strike it rich again.

Heck, Brett Favre may have even retired by then.

UPDATE: Two local rags have also confirmed the agreement.

Lets use this as a solid template to get BM deals done.

ro_50
06-23-2009, 07:48 PM
Lets use this as a solid template to get BM deals done.

But there's a difference, Greg Jennings, whom I've had the pleasure of meeting while he was at Western Michigan, is easier to deal with than a Brandon Marshall, who pouts.

DBroncos4life
06-23-2009, 07:49 PM
But there's a difference, Greg Jennings, whom I've had the pleasure of meeting while he was at Western Michigan, is easier to deal with than a Brandon Marshall, who pouts.

Yes its clear that everyone that is a Bronco is a big baby.

gyldenlove
06-23-2009, 07:56 PM
I love how a guy who plays preseason and 15 regular season games through a severe hip injury is protrayed as a whiner.

What is next, calling John Mccain a sissy because he didn't bust out of POW camp?

Man-Goblin
06-23-2009, 08:04 PM
I think it's a great template, actually. They were both pro bowl alternates last year.

Marshall would say he has 25 more receptions over the last two years than Jennings has in his career, but the yards are close. Of course, he has a lot more arrests, too.

Marshall has to want to sign it, though. I'm not so sure he does with this team, and I'm not so sure Bowlen wants to give it to him.

Gcver2ver3
06-23-2009, 08:06 PM
yea jennings and Marshall are very comparable...

tell me again how many time Jennings has been arrested and suspended?...

azbroncfan
06-23-2009, 08:11 PM
I'd would trade Jennings for Marshall straight up. I think Marshall is better but not by a lot and Jennings isn't a time bomb waiting to explode and go to jail. Marshall can't help the team suspended or in jail. Jennings has a better knack for the endzone too.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-23-2009, 08:14 PM
On the heels of a local Milwaukee TV report that Greg Jennings’ contract extension has been finalized, more details about the proposed deal are emerging.

ESPN.com’s John Clayton says the Packers and Jennings are nearing a three-year contract extension through 2012 that will include a minimum of $27 million in new money. It can be worth as much as $30 million if he performs at a “Pro Bowl level.” Jennings was scheduled to make $535,000 in 2009.

Clayton also reports that some language in the contract has to be worked out before it is sent to the NFL Management Council and signed. So it’s not exactly a “done deal” just yet.

The original report by Fox6 Sports said Jennings would become the second highest paid receiver in the league, but that is open for interpretation. Clayton’s numbers indicate that Jennings will average under $7 million for the next four seasons.

T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Roy Williams, and Andre Johnson all make more money per season. Antonio Bryant will make $9.88 million as Tampa’s franchise player in 2009.

Still, the deal looks like a fair one for both sides. Jennings didn’t break the bank, but he’s likely to make it to the end of the contract, barring major injuries. He will get to re-enter the free agent market in 2013 at age 29, and possibly strike it rich again.

Heck, Brett Favre may have even retired by then.

UPDATE: Two local rags have also confirmed the agreement

I love how people gloss over important word. Jennings is "IF" with Marshall it is.

Ratboy
06-23-2009, 08:25 PM
yea jennings and Marshall are very comparable...

tell me again how many time Jennings has been arrested and suspended?...

Tell me how many times Jennings went to the pro bowl?

Tell me how many times Jennings caught 100 + balls?

Tell me how many times Jennings went over 1000 yards?

Marshall is and will be the better player.

Ratboy
06-23-2009, 08:26 PM
I love how people gloss over important word. Jennings is "IF" with Marshall it is.

This pretty much sums it up.

Marshall is.

Br0nc0Buster
06-23-2009, 08:29 PM
Tell me how many times Jennings went to the pro bowl?

Tell me how many times Jennings caught 100 + balls?

Tell me how many times Jennings went over 1000 yards?

Marshall is and will be the better player.

of course he is
but Jennings doesnt have the rap sheet like he does

His arrests have to be taken into account, considering the next time it happens he will get a lengthy suspension

OBF1
06-23-2009, 08:33 PM
Tell me how many times Jennings went to the pro bowl?

Tell me how many times Jennings caught 100 + balls?

Tell me how many times Jennings went over 1000 yards?

Marshall is and will be the better player.

You forgot to mention total TD's in your evaluation..... + Jenning has been to the playoffs, where BM never has.

DBroncos4life
06-23-2009, 08:33 PM
of course he is
but Jennings doesnt have the rap sheet like he does

His arrests have to be taken into account, considering the next time it happens he will get a lengthy suspension

Well someone is going to pay for Marshall.

OBF1
06-23-2009, 08:34 PM
People also paid for Rae Carruth and OJ Simpson.

Next comment please

Dukes
06-23-2009, 08:34 PM
This pretty much sums it up.

Marshall is a wife beater.

Fixed it for you

DBroncos4life
06-23-2009, 08:35 PM
You forgot to mention total TD's in your evaluation..... + Jenning has been to the playoffs, where BM never has.

Ted Ginn Jr has been to the playoff does that make him worth more?

Ratboy
06-23-2009, 08:35 PM
You forgot to mention total TD's in your evaluation..... + Jenning has been to the playoffs, where BM never has.

Thanks for clearing this up. I was under the impression that making the playoffs was a team accomplishment.

DBroncos4life
06-23-2009, 08:40 PM
People also paid for Rae Carruth and OJ Simpson.

Next comment please

Yes the Juice did just what during his NFL career? Its worthless even talking to some of the people on this board. Talented players like Marshall don't come around that often, sure he has some run ins with the law but other then the DUI nothing has really been proven to be true but **** the values that our law was founded on right? If you think we are going to build a trouble free team and still win the SB in this day and age you are crazy. Even the best teams have some bad eggs running around in the locker room.

OBF1
06-23-2009, 08:48 PM
Just because someone can catch a ball or run like the wind does not mean you have to dismiss one's serious charactor flaws.... Then pay them what they feel they are worth when they are under contract, all the while they have a pending court case which could cause them to miss 1/2 of the season.

I am glad I am not part of the "ME" generation where you do not have to be held accountable for your actions.

Players that won superbowls with the Broncos were team first players, Not aholes like Brandon Marshall who only gives a rats ass about himself.

Br0nc0Buster
06-23-2009, 08:51 PM
Yes the Juice did just what during his NFL career? Its worthless even talking to some of the people on this board. Talented players like Marshall don't come around that often, sure he has some run ins with the law but other then the DUI nothing has really been proven to be true but **** the values that our law was founded on right? If you think we are going to build a trouble free team and still win the SB in this day and age you are crazy. Even the best teams have some bad eggs running around in the locker room.

Goodell doesnt care, he can suspend him even if he is found not guilty
There is a difference between not being a great person, and constantly getting arrested.
Yeah other teams have bad eggs, but how many have players who have been in trouble with the law as many times as Marshall?

You talking about giving millions and millions to a guy who is one incident away from an 8 game suspension.

I would have zero problem giving him a big contract WITH clauses assuming his hip checks out.
But just handing him a huge contract with the likely chance he will **** up is extremely risky

Dukes
06-23-2009, 08:55 PM
Yeah other teams have bad eggs, but how many have players who have been in trouble with the law as many times as Marshall?Chris Henry?

I would have zero problem giving him a big contract WITH clauses assuming his hip checks out.
But just handing him a huge contract with the likely chance he will **** up is extremely risky

On a serious note, I think that's how most Bronco fans feel about the situation. Everyone can pretty much agree he's underpaid and deserves a new contract. Just one with clauses to protect the organization when he screws up again. And it's a matter of when not if Marshall screws up again.

Gcver2ver3
06-23-2009, 09:03 PM
Tell me how many times Jennings went to the pro bowl?

Tell me how many times Jennings caught 100 + balls?

Tell me how many times Jennings went over 1000 yards?

Marshall is and will be the better player.

you're going down the wrong path...

my point is that they are not comparable...

Jennings is a great talent as is Marshall but only one of them is a huge suspension risk...

oh and since you bring it up...Jennings had more yards and TDs than Marshall did last season...so lets not get ahead of ourselves here...

watermock
06-23-2009, 09:07 PM
I fully expect Bowlen to "forget" hus promise to BM, and him to be forced to report, and be unhappy all year, and then we RFA tag him for '10 with a 1st tender.

That's about in line with what I expect from Der Fuhrer.

Man-Goblin
06-23-2009, 09:40 PM
I fully expect Bowlen to "forget" hus promise to BM, and him to be forced to report, and be unhappy all year, and then we RFA tag him for '10 with a 1st tender.

That's about in line with what I expect from Der Fuhrer.

That's all fine and dandy. And if it comes to that they should give him the high tender.

But the fact remains that he is worth more than the $3+ million that tender is worth; off the field problems and all.

It's a very tricky and risky situation for sure. But if you can get him signed and happy for the Jennings extension I say you do it.

Neither camp is willing to do it now, that is safe to assume. But if he is happy and works hard at that price, the club is mnimizing their risk with the short terms of the contract. If there's conduct clauses in there it's even better. But at that price, he's a great asset to have. I would even venture to say he's tradable even if he ****s up and gets suspended for 8 games. For what, I don't know. But someone would want that talent.

Hercules Rockefeller
06-23-2009, 09:51 PM
I think it's a great template, actually. They were both pro bowl alternates last year.


Marshall was a starter, not an alternate.

UltimateHoboW/Shotgun
06-23-2009, 10:02 PM
You forgot to mention total TD's in your evaluation..... + Jenning has been to the playoffs, where BM never has.

Playoffs are about the proformence of the team not an individual.

watermock
06-23-2009, 10:05 PM
Sure, that would be logical, to put clauses in the contract, but I think Bowlen DID say that they would at least ATTEMPT a trade.

And why wouln't BM want one? Regardless, he's over a barrel this year, anyone thinks he's going to get an 8 game suspension is dreaming., but he has to play out his contract to be an RFA.

Believe me, he 's not going to kiss and make up with McDummy. And he shouldn't gget married now.

He'll get a first from the Bears in '11 if he just is mediocre in 09. Which McDummy will use in '10.

Bank it.

Popps
06-23-2009, 10:25 PM
Yea, Jennings simply isn't anywhere near the risk Marshall is.

Similar production, not even on the same planet as far as risk.

One more ****-up by Marshall and it's over. ONE more thing. Anything. Pick it.

Is the front office going to dole out $7M a year on a guy who's a sneeze away from a major suspension? I just can't see it, and particularly under holdout circumstances.

I hope we work something out, but I'm beginning to fear this is going to be a long, drawn out situation.

Popps
06-23-2009, 10:27 PM
S
And why wouln't BM want one? Regardless, he's over a barrel this year, anyone thinks he's going to get an 8 game suspension is dreaming., but he has to play out his contract to be an RFA.

.

Huh?

You realize he's been suspended already, Mock?

You realize he's on the league's hit-list? He may have skated on his latest arrest because of dropped charges, but he is on thin, thin ice.

Not sure where you get that nonsense from.

Actually, I'm not sure why I read your garbage posts, come to think of it.
You can't get a single thing right, ever.

BroncoBuff
06-23-2009, 10:53 PM
Regardless, he's over a barrel this year, anyone thinks he's going to get an 8 game suspension is dreaming.

Whadd'ya mean ... he was cleared on the Atlanta thing.....

All that's left now is the misdemeanor trial in August ... but if he's acquitted, it's all over, right?

TheReverend
06-23-2009, 10:56 PM
I think it's a great template, actually. They were both pro bowl alternates last year.

Marshall would say he has 25 more receptions over the last two years than Jennings has in his career, but the yards are close. Of course, he has a lot more arrests, too.

Marshall has to want to sign it, though. I'm not so sure he does with this team, and I'm not so sure Bowlen wants to give it to him.

Are you retarded?

TheReverend
06-23-2009, 10:59 PM
Just because someone can catch a ball or run like the wind does not mean you have to dismiss one's serious charactor flaws.... Then pay them what they feel they are worth when they are under contract, all the while they have a pending court case which could cause them to miss 1/2 of the season.

I am glad I am not part of the "ME" generation where you do not have to be held accountable for your actions.

Players that won superbowls with the Broncos were team first players, Not aholes like Brandon Marshall who only gives a rats ass about himself.

So Neil Smith jumped ship to a division rival in Denver because he was a team first guy? Other key SB guys that left their teams in FA to come to Denver: Romo and McCaffrey.

PS. Marshall is considered a leader in the locker-room.

TheReverend
06-23-2009, 11:01 PM
you're going down the wrong path...

my point is that they are not comparable...

Jennings is a great talent as is Marshall but only one of them is a huge suspension risk...

oh and since you bring it up...Jennings had more yards and TDs than Marshall did last season...so lets not get ahead of ourselves here...

In 15 games versus 16, sure. Quit skewing reality.

Muddled
06-24-2009, 04:41 AM
Other key SB guys that left their teams in FA to come to Denver: Romo and McCaffrey.



Eh? McCaffrey wasn't exactly a household name before he came to Denver.

This is one messed up situation, pick your poison, trade him and set the precedent that any unhappy player can talk his way out of Denver og pay him and commit millions to a disaster waiting to happen. Wonder what sort of clauses are permitted and whether Marshall would accept signing a performance based contract which protects the team if he screws up again

summerdenver
06-24-2009, 04:59 AM
But there's a difference, Greg Jennings, whom I've had the pleasure of meeting while he was at Western Michigan, is easier to deal with than a Brandon Marshall, who pouts.

If you think BMarsh does not deserve a new deal that's OK. I donot agree with it but I can see your view point. But to call a football player a baby or pouts just because he wants a new contract is silly.

cmhargrove
06-24-2009, 05:46 AM
On a serious note, I think that's how most Bronco fans feel about the situation. Everyone can pretty much agree he's underpaid and deserves a new contract. Just one with clauses to protect the organization when he screws up again. And it's a matter of when not if Marshall screws up again.

This.

We'll have to eventually pay a #1 wideout to be a part of a winning franchise, so why not just keep Brandon? Put plenty of behavioral clauses in there to protect the team.

Gcver2ver3
06-24-2009, 06:33 AM
In 15 games versus 16, sure. Quit skewing reality.

FAIL...

just because Marshall got suspended, shouldnt be held against Jennings...

meangene
06-24-2009, 07:15 AM
Yea, Jennings simply isn't anywhere near the risk Marshall is.

Similar production, not even on the same planet as far as risk.

One more ****-up by Marshall and it's over. ONE more thing. Anything. Pick it.

Is the front office going to dole out $7M a year on a guy who's a sneeze away from a major suspension? I just can't see it, and particularly under holdout circumstances.

I hope we work something out, but I'm beginning to fear this is going to be a long, drawn out situation.

Plus, even if we put clauses in the contract to protect us, how do we keep from tying up our salary cap? What if he is suspended for 8 games? We get back his salary for those games and part of the signing bonus but how, and when is that credited? What happens when he returns? Do we start paying him again and hold our breath until the next **** up? Meantime that is money we can't use on other players. No, I think he needs to prove he is healthy and can stay out of trouble this year before we pay him.

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 07:47 AM
Nope, its not a template because its not comparable circumstances.

The biggest problem here is that everyone has a position they want to support and can not operate independently of that position on Marshall.

Mashall has entirely different circumstances than Jennings does. Marshall has had a major injury in all three years he has played, one was self inflicted and could have ended his career before it ever started. Marshall was drafted in the fourth round based on his character issues that have NEVER been put to rest and he is on the verge of a suspension that would take him off the field for a minimum of 4, but more likely 8 games if convicted of a crime. Also, if he is convicted and does not take a plea, he will do time for that conviction. He can not take a plea because any action that he confesses to will be a suspendable offense by the league. And, while prior history can not determine guilt or innocence, it can affect sentencing in some states.

Jennings does not have a single one of those negatives to consider when giving him a contract. However, Marshall is the player with more raw potential and 2 huge years of production over Jennings. While he was a Probowl Player last year, you can not seperate performance from the team which now has a different QB, different Offensive system, different coaches and GM, and different philosophy on player management.

So, in short the ONLY thing that is comparable in this situation is htat they are 2 young WR's wanting new contracts for outperforming their rookie Contracts. Nothing else is truly a basis for comparison that is relevant.

TonyR
06-24-2009, 08:10 AM
...its not a template because its not comparable circumstances.

Well said. Most of us love Brandon and hope things work out and he remains a Bronco, but like it or not Jennings is clearly and unquestionably the more valuable commodity right now. Marshall's current market value is well below his ability as a player would suggest it should be because of his off the field issues.

Cito Pelon
06-24-2009, 08:11 AM
Yea, Jennings simply isn't anywhere near the risk Marshall is.

Similar production, not even on the same planet as far as risk.

One more ****-up by Marshall and it's over. ONE more thing. Anything. Pick it.

Is the front office going to dole out $7M a year on a guy who's a sneeze away from a major suspension? I just can't see it, and particularly under holdout circumstances.

I hope we work something out, but I'm beginning to fear this is going to be a long, drawn out situation.

I agree they're similar in terms of production. But, yeah, Marshall is a bigger risk in terms of a signing bonus. Even if he gets traded the team he goes to will want a new contract in place before the deal, and I bet that new team will be wary of a big signing bonus same as the Broncos are.

I'm surmising the sticking point on a new contract with the Broncs is the signing bonus. Both Marshall and the Broncs have said they're still talking, so we'll see what happens.

No doubt Marshall would like to get a fresh start somewhere else, not because of the coaching changes, but because he's had so many problems with Johnny Law in Denver, and that's certainly a cloud hanging over his head.

Something like 12 occasions when Douglas County deputies were called to his residence in 2006-2008, plus the DUI in downtown Denver. He's a decent person I think, just immature and probably embarrassed about some things that happened with Johnny Law through the company he kept and drinking too much. I don't blame him for wanting a fresh start elsewhere.

cutthemdown
06-24-2009, 08:14 AM
I fully expect Bowlen to "forget" hus promise to BM, and him to be forced to report, and be unhappy all year, and then we RFA tag him for '10 with a 1st tender.

That's about in line with what I expect from Der Fuhrer.

first off without a new CBA he will be a RFA anyways.

Cito Pelon
06-24-2009, 08:20 AM
Eh? McCaffrey wasn't exactly a household name before he came to Denver.

This is one messed up situation, pick your poison, trade him and set the precedent that any unhappy player can talk his way out of Denver og pay him and commit millions to a disaster waiting to happen. Wonder what sort of clauses are permitted and whether Marshall would accept signing a performance based contract which protects the team if he screws up again

That's probably what the FO and Marshall are trying to sort through right now. It's not like anything has to be done today. They have almost two months to sort it out. I'm hopeful the two parties will be able to agree.

Man-Goblin
06-24-2009, 08:30 AM
Are you retarded?

Yes. I am retarded for mistakenly saying Marshall was a pro bowl alternate last year when in fact he was voted in. My mistake.

Or are you saying that you don't think Marshall will get a contract from some team that, as the article states, averages under $7 million per year? That contract may put him in the top as far as salaries go for WRs, but he probably wouldn't even be in the top 20 by the time it concludes. As I said, if you can lock him up for that, with only a 4 year commitment including this year, he is a good asset to have. Off the field problems or not.

It's not going to happen anytime soon, but by the time it would, the Broncos would damn sure know if that hip is okay. The alternative, of course, is to trade him for lesser value than what he's worth talent-wise, once again weakening the team's talent base. Or leave things alone and hope he shows up and plays hard and doesn't infect the locker room. And if he does, you may have to franchise him and guarantee him a similar amount of money for one year that you would have guaranteed him for the length of the contract. Now that would be retarded.

SoDak Bronco
06-24-2009, 08:35 AM
blah blah blah...Marshall is ten times the player Jennings is, will be, or can be. Give the man his contract and lets go win some games. If we are going to sniff the playoffs we need Bmarsh on our team. I believe the guy is maturing and can be trusted, so I hope we get him a fair deal and lets go play some football.

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 08:58 AM
blah blah blah...Marshall is ten times the player Jennings is, will be, or can be. Give the man his contract and lets go win some games. If we are going to sniff the playoffs we need Bmarsh on our team. I believe the guy is maturing and can be trusted, so I hope we get him a fair deal and lets go play some football.

Please, ten times the player ??? He might be twice the player eventually, but Marshall still has trouble getting open inside the red zone or going all the way to the house to be the playmaker he could be. Jennings has not had those problems, so this is a little homer at best.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 09:15 AM
Yes. I am retarded for mistakenly saying Marshall was a pro bowl alternate last year when in fact he was voted in. My mistake.

Or are you saying that you don't think Marshall will get a contract from some team that, as the article states, averages under $7 million per year? That contract may put him in the top as far as salaries go for WRs, but he probably wouldn't even be in the top 20 by the time it concludes. As I said, if you can lock him up for that, with only a 4 year commitment including this year, he is a good asset to have. Off the field problems or not.

It's not going to happen anytime soon, but by the time it would, the Broncos would damn sure know if that hip is okay. The alternative, of course, is to trade him for lesser value than what he's worth talent-wise, once again weakening the team's talent base. Or leave things alone and hope he shows up and plays hard and doesn't infect the locker room. And if he does, you may have to franchise him and guarantee him a similar amount of money for one year that you would have guaranteed him for the length of the contract. Now that would be retarded.

Wow. Great recovery and solid post. Color me impressed.

azbroncfan
06-24-2009, 09:57 AM
Please, ten times the player ??? He might be twice the player eventually, but Marshall still has trouble getting open inside the red zone or going all the way to the house to be the playmaker he could be. Jennings has not had those problems, so this is a little homer at best.

I was waiting for the homers to claim that Jennings TD's were due to a better QB but then this is coming from the same homers that think the top 3 QB's in the league are Manning, Brady, and Cutler then the rest. Jennings and Marshall aren't that far apart and Jennings is a much better player when it comes to putting points on the board. Marshall has no excuse for a guy of his size should get 8-10 TD's on Jumpballs at the corner of the endzone.

Rabb
06-24-2009, 10:48 AM
this wouldn't have even been a comparison at the end of the season, obviously because of the legal issues...but comparing talent isn't even close here, Marshall can be top 3 most dominating WR in the league if he wanted to be, he is just flat out gifted and a physical freak of nature for the potision

sign BM with clauses and move on, we have to roll the dice on behavior to salvage anything close to a season this year and in the future...just my .02

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 11:02 AM
I was waiting for the homers to claim that Jennings TD's were due to a better QB but then this is coming from the same homers that think the top 3 QB's in the league are Manning, Brady, and Cutler then the rest. Jennings and Marshall aren't that far apart and Jennings is a much better player when it comes to putting points on the board. Marshall has no excuse for a guy of his size should get 8-10 TD's on Jumpballs at the corner of the endzone.

It's a little on the absurd side to be accusing a player with back to back 100+ catch seasons and over 1250 yards each year to be not productive enough, don't you think?

summerdenver
06-24-2009, 11:45 AM
sign BM with clauses and move on, we have to roll the dice on behavior to salvage anything close to a season this year and in the future...just my .02

Broncos don't want to do it and thats the problem. Broncos want the cake and eat it too are not prepared to take a risk. If you believe Garry Miller who was guest on 105.3 last week, Bowlen told BMarsh to play the season with the current deal and they will consider an extension at the end of the year if there are no issues during the year.

Rabb
06-24-2009, 12:47 PM
Broncos don't want to do it and thats the problem. Broncos want the cake and eat it too are not prepared to take a risk. If you believe Garry Miller who was guest on 105.3 last week, Bowlen told BMarsh to play the season with the current deal and they will consider an extension at the end of the year if there are no issues during the year.

yeah, and honestly it is hard to argue with that also though...but I have no idea how contracts work so I can't say

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 01:31 PM
It's a little on the absurd side to be accusing a player with back to back 100+ catch seasons and over 1250 yards each year to be not productive enough, don't you think?

It might seem absurd on the surface, however, as a Playmaker and difference maker Marshall Disappeared against Asomugha, NE's entire secondary, MIA and down the stretch of any critical game they needed to get into the playoffs. Not a Critical TD in any of those games.

Do not get me wrong, he is a beast on the field but he abused the tiny secondaries he faced and totally annihilated a terrible Chargers Secondary in week 2. He needs to have some Larry Fitgerald type performances with the game on the line and Playoffs to get the respect the typical DEn fan gives him. I mean the best he has ever done is 7 TD's in 16 games and 2 TD's versus KC last year. Also, he is poor at getting seperation in the Red zone which is where he should Excel at 6'4 230 don't you think?

While Marshall has great Wes Welker like possession numbers, does anyone outside of DEN think he has reached Elite status yet? I seriously doubt it.

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 01:46 PM
It might seem absurd on the surface, however, as a Playmaker and difference maker Marshall Disappeared against Asomugha, NE's entire secondary, MIA and down the stretch of any critical game they needed to get into the playoffs. Not a Critical TD in any of those games.

Do not get me wrong, he is a beast on the field but he abused the tiny secondaries he faced and totally annihilated a terrible Chargers Secondary in week 2. He needs to have some Larry Fitgerald type performances with the game on the line and Playoffs to get the respect the typical DEn fan gives him. I mean the best he has ever done is 7 TD's in 16 games and 2 TD's versus KC last year. Also, he is poor at getting seperation in the Red zone which is where he should Excel at 6'4 230 don't you think?

While Marshall has great Wes Welker like possession numbers, does anyone outside of DEN think he has reached Elite status yet? I seriously doubt it.

Note the games you mentioned that he disappeared in were deep into the season when you can reasonably assume his hip injury was full fledged.

But, no need to rely on assumptions.

The NE game was over when ****head Hall fumbled on two consecutive plays. It was buried when Jay nailed his hand. Despite that, Brandon had an "off day" with only 77 yards...

Oakland was another 84 yard day, in fact, I'd say he might've been the only in Orange and Blue that bothered to show up to play that day.

Miami ROLLED EVERYTHING at Brandon. Press Coverage off the line, OLB bracketing his zone, and a safety over the top. Which opened up Eddie for a good day (still lower than a Marshall "off day"), and kept Hillis busy catching out of the backfield.

But, I digress, your main point of contention is red-zone production.

Watch how teams treat Denver 2008 in the red-zone. Even when he makes that catch vs KC, note he's got a corner underneath, and a safety over the top. In cramped space like the red-zone, that's a high volume of resources spent on one player. And EVERYONE did this. Couple that with a LOT of red-zone production is technique and Brandon is young, and I think you've got a decent explanation.

As for the Fitz comparison... he's not even a primary target in the redzone. They use Anquan for that. Larry scores a large amount of his TDs from a good chunk of yards out. That's not intended to claim Brandon is better than Larry... because that's simply far from true.

rugbythug
06-24-2009, 01:50 PM
I find it amusing that people can't see a similarity between Jennings and Marshall.

They were both low draft picks in the same draft. They have both preformed at a high level. One at a Higher level than the other. Although Jennings does not have A)injury issues or B)Police blotter issues.

Marshall will sign a Contract similar to this with personal conduct qualifiers.

Doggcow
06-24-2009, 01:51 PM
I thought this was about us trading Marshall for Jennings. Can we do that? Jennings is a beast.

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 03:26 PM
Note the games you mentioned that he disappeared in were deep into the season when you can reasonably assume his hip injury was full fledged.

But, no need to rely on assumptions.

The NE game was over when ****head Hall fumbled on two consecutive plays. It was buried when Jay nailed his hand. Despite that, Brandon had an "off day" with only 77 yards...

Oakland was another 84 yard day, in fact, I'd say he might've been the only in Orange and Blue that bothered to show up to play that day.

Miami ROLLED EVERYTHING at Brandon. Press Coverage off the line, OLB bracketing his zone, and a safety over the top. Which opened up Eddie for a good day (still lower than a Marshall "off day"), and kept Hillis busy catching out of the backfield.

But, I digress, your main point of contention is red-zone production.

Watch how teams treat Denver 2008 in the red-zone. Even when he makes that catch vs KC, note he's got a corner underneath, and a safety over the top. In cramped space like the red-zone, that's a high volume of resources spent on one player. And EVERYONE did this. Couple that with a LOT of red-zone production is technique and Brandon is young, and I think you've got a decent explanation.

As for the Fitz comparison... he's not even a primary target in the redzone. They use Anquan for that. Larry scores a large amount of his TDs from a good chunk of yards out. That's not intended to claim Brandon is better than Larry... because that's simply far from true.

If the bolded Part is true, Cutler is half the QB in the red Zone that people here think he is since he had the third worst Red Zone QB rating and second highest TO ratio in the red Zone and that was with 3 Legit WR's and the missed Call by the ref against SD.

How is that going to translate in CHI with Zero WR's and one suitable TE target?

rmsanger
06-24-2009, 03:32 PM
BM > Jennings... pay the fricken man

/thread

Mediator12
06-24-2009, 03:38 PM
BM > Jennings... pay the fricken man

/thread

Not to anyone outside of DEN.

/end thread

TheReverend
06-24-2009, 03:52 PM
If the bolded Part is true, Cutler is half the QB in the red Zone that people here think he is since he had the third worst Red Zone QB rating and second highest TO ratio in the red Zone and that was with 3 Legit WR's and the missed Call by the ref against SD.

How is that going to translate in CHI with Zero WR's and one suitable TE target?

The screen, primarily, would be my guess.

Forte's shown great ability catching the ball and making things happen with it. Olsen's an extremely viable underneath candidate along with being a solid blocker. Hester also makes the, gasp, bubble screen extremely viable.

As for the first part of your statement, I disagree. When Scheffler wasn't injured, the team was dramatically more successful in the red zone as well. Peyton Hillis had a similar effect. We had too much turnover at RB, compounded with Scheffler's injury. Marshall and Royal CAN'T do everything. Do I disagree with some play calling? Certainly. Do I disagree with some formations? Absolutely. In situations with a scrub RB in the redzone, and no viable receiving TE, Stokely should've been out there EVERY down inside the 10.

But, just my opinion.

maher_tyler
06-24-2009, 04:17 PM
I don't disagree that BM doesn't deserve more money because he does BUT i know the same people that are saying "pay the man" will be pissed at Bowlen for giving him all that money IF he gets suspended or his hip hasn't healed all the way etc. He needs to prove that he is fully healthy and can stay out of trouble for an extended period of time..its comon sense. Everyone makes it seem so easy to just fork out millions of dollars for something unknown...its like buying a used vehical without seeing the carfax..you don't do it!!

DBroncos4life
06-24-2009, 04:24 PM
It might seem absurd on the surface, however, as a Playmaker and difference maker Marshall Disappeared against Asomugha, NE's entire secondary, MIA and down the stretch of any critical game they needed to get into the playoffs. Not a Critical TD in any of those games.

Do not get me wrong, he is a beast on the field but he abused the tiny secondaries he faced and totally annihilated a terrible Chargers Secondary in week 2. He needs to have some Larry Fitgerald type performances with the game on the line and Playoffs to get the respect the typical DEn fan gives him. I mean the best he has ever done is 7 TD's in 16 games and 2 TD's versus KC last year. Also, he is poor at getting seperation in the Red zone which is where he should Excel at 6'4 230 don't you think?

While Marshall has great Wes Welker like possession numbers, does anyone outside of DEN think he has reached Elite status yet? I seriously doubt it.

thats not all true he won the Phins game for us if it wasn't for a pretty lame PI call on Marshall. As for the Pats game I don't think anything went right for us after Cutler got hit in the hand.

azbroncfan
06-24-2009, 05:45 PM
It's a little on the absurd side to be accusing a player with back to back 100+ catch seasons and over 1250 yards each year to be not productive enough, don't you think?

I'll I am saying is he isn't productive enough where it counts. Who cares how many catches and yards between the 20's is if you can't seem to put it together in the Redzone. I think some of it falls on SHanny's Passing offense but most of it is his inability to get open down in the red zone.

azbroncfan
06-24-2009, 05:48 PM
thats not all true he won the Phins game for us if it wasn't for a pretty lame PI call on Marshall. As for the Pats game I don't think anything went right for us after Cutler got hit in the hand.

But he didn't win the game.

DBroncos4life
06-24-2009, 10:46 PM
But he didn't win the game.

Then lets cut the guy, fans don't seem to think he is worth a **** then lets just dump the guy and move on with the guys we have now.

Rabb
06-25-2009, 06:51 AM
it has nothing to do with talent or a comparison of talent, they talked about it on Total Access last night and the common theme is the character and off the field garbage

if Brandon had half the "incidents" he has now, he would have twice the contract

pretty simple, I don't get how people can bash the Broncos in this situation

TonyR
06-25-2009, 07:43 AM
Watch how teams treat Denver 2008 in the red-zone. Even when he makes that catch vs KC, note he's got a corner underneath, and a safety over the top. In cramped space like the red-zone, that's a high volume of resources spent on one player. And EVERYONE did this.

This justification of Marshall's red zone production is by default something of a condemnation of Cutler's, isn't it? With all that attention being paid to Brandon somebody else should be open!

Lolad
06-25-2009, 08:47 AM
If you are scared of the money that he will get up front. Then increase the money on the back end of the contract. That would ensure that he gets his due if sticks around. The Broncos like a lot of money up front to free them but they can make an exception in this case.

DBroncos4life
06-25-2009, 10:20 AM
it has nothing to do with talent or a comparison of talent, they talked about it on Total Access last night and the common theme is the character and off the field garbage

if Brandon had half the "incidents" he has now, he would have twice the contract

pretty simple, I don't get how people can bash the Broncos in this situation

I don't think I have seen anyone on here doubting Marshall's off-field problems as why he isn't getting a deal from us already. Really he is going to have to sign a contract with clauses to protect the team, the problem maybe he just doesn't want to play for the Broncos.

This will bring out the who cares he is nothing but trash people and the ones that think no one is bigger then the team. They just don't want to look at the possibility that something bigger is a mess here.

Some of us will admit that maybe its just a fluke that two of our best players want out which it could be, but at the sametime maybe there is a huge problem with the way that the FO is going about things.

As I said before if we only get picks for BM (if he leaves) then Denver is in a lot of trouble. I want to see how this plays out.

Man-Goblin
06-25-2009, 10:30 AM
I don't think I have seen anyone on here doubting Marshall's off-field problems as why he isn't getting a deal from us already. Really he is going to have to sign a contract with clauses to protect the team, the problem maybe he just doesn't want to play for the Broncos.


I think it's a little of this and a little of the fact that Bowlen doesn't want to pay the up front money on the extension right now. Bowlen dealt out over $40 million in guarantees this year, and that number may be over $60 million after they sign their draft picks. That's a lot of scratch, and if you add the possible $10-14 million in g-money it would take to get the extension signed, Bowlens pockets might be close to inside-out.

Rabb
06-25-2009, 10:57 AM
I don't think I have seen anyone on here doubting Marshall's off-field problems as why he isn't getting a deal from us already. Really he is going to have to sign a contract with clauses to protect the team, the problem maybe he just doesn't want to play for the Broncos.

yeah, I agree but this thread in itself is sort of trying to justify a contract based on playing numbers

I agree with you also in that I don't think he wants to be here

azbroncfan
06-26-2009, 09:25 AM
Then lets cut the guy, fans don't seem to think he is worth a **** then lets just dump the guy and move on with the guys we have now.

Didn't say that but your giving him credit for a play that didn't count. So does that mean we have to say the broncos were 8-8 but really 9-7? Wait I guess we were 8-8 because Marshall won that game but Cutler really lost the SD Ed Hoch game. I see maybe your on to something.

~Crash~
06-26-2009, 10:13 AM
yea jennings and Marshall are very comparable...

tell me again how many time Jennings has been arrested and suspended?...

hmmm sounds like you should root for a new team ... lol that is what the mcd bunch told me over and over cause I think the coach is a rat .