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View Full Version : Cutler praises Marshall: "Can be one of the greatest ever"


BabyTO
06-22-2009, 05:08 PM
WILLIAMSBURG - Jay Cutler's recent addition to the Chicago Bears' roster appears to have ended almost a decade of musical chairs at quarterback in the Windy City. But a receiving corps rated average at best begs the question of who will be on the other end of Cutler's passes.

An enticing solution could be wide receiver Brandon Marshall, Cutler's former teammate in Denver. The two connected for more than 100 completions with the Broncos each of the past two seasons.

Like Cutler — traded by the Broncos to the Bears in April — Marshall wants Denver to trade him. The prospect that the Bears, who reportedly might be interested in Marshall, could bring the two Pro Bowlers back together seems to appeal to Cutler.

"I talked to 'B' a few days ago," Cutler said during an appearance Monday at William and Mary's Colonial All-Pro Football Camp. "Just checking in on him and seeing how he's doing, because I went through a similar thing that he's going through.

"I played with Brandon for three years and I think he's one of the best receivers in the NFL. I think he can be one of the greatest ever to play.

"He's big and fast, and can do everything you want him to do, on the field and in the meeting room. I don't know what we're going to do. That's up to the guys upstairs. If we make a run at him, we make a run at him."

If not, Cutler — who threw for 4,526 yards in Denver last season — sounds confident that Devin Hester can fit the bill as the Bears' top pass catcher. A converted defensive back who made a splash as one of the most exciting kick returners of recent years, Hester caught 25 passes for 347 yards in the final six games last season.

"I've watched every game from last year and seen him in action quite a bit," Cutler said. "It's a tough transition from (defensive back) to receiver. He's still learning, but overall I can't be happier with how we're working together and his progression.

"I think he's definitely a legitimate No. 1 receiver in the NFL."

Cutler, a fourth-year quarterback from Vanderbilt, moved from Denver to Chicago after a tumultuous series of events. The Broncos fired 14-year coach Mike Shanahan following last season's 8-8 finish.

When Cutler learned that new head coach Josh McDaniels — the former offensive coordinator in New England — was attempting to bring Patriots quarterback Matt Cassell to Denver, Cutler demanded a trade. Cutler says he would now handle the matter differently in some ways, but expresses no regrets about landing in Chicago.

"It's very rare for a player to want to get traded and it work out the way it did work out," said Cutler, who was traded for two first-round draft picks, a fifth-round draft pick and Chicago QB Kyle Orton. "It's kind of a victory for the players, but I think Denver felt they got a pretty good deal, too.

"It worked out for both of us in the long run. I think they're happy with the situation and I couldn't be happier being in Chicago."

The Washington Redskins also made a run at Cutler. Cutler empathizes with how Redskins' quarterback Jason Campbell must have felt as the team sought his replacement.

"It's tough," Cutler said. "It happened to me. He's handled it great. He's said very few things, kind of handled it internally within the organization and kept it in the building."

"He's just got to keep doing what he's doing — work hard and run the offense."

The Bears' acquisition of Cutler makes them the favorite of some to win the NFC North. He welcomes the high expectations.

"Defensively they're solid and special teams they're solid," he said. "We've just got to put up some points.

"I think we've got the weapons to do that. The offensive line is great. We got (All-Pro offensive left tackle) Orlando Pace (formerly of St. Louis) in there as well."

Cutler has some time to wait before the start of camp in late July. He spent some of it Monday tutoring future stars at William and Mary.

"It's well put together," he said of the camp. "They're letting the little kids go out there and just have fun, and teaching them the basics.

"You can get a little more specific with the older kids, helping them out and teaching them some tricks."

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt_jaycutler_0623jun23,0,7158492.story

Los Broncos
06-22-2009, 05:10 PM
I think this was posted last week.

tsiguy96
06-22-2009, 05:15 PM
The Washington Redskins also made a run at Cutler. Cutler empathizes with how Redskins' quarterback Jason Campbell must have felt as the team sought his replacement.

"It's tough," Cutler said. "It happened to me. He's handled it great. He's said very few things, kind of handled it internally within the organization and kept it in the building."

"He's just got to keep doing what he's doing — work hard and run the offense."

really cutler, you whiny pussy? campbell has "got to..work hard and run the offense" while you get to bitch and moan on national TV about being upset? talk about ego, how good do you think you are?

BabyTO
06-22-2009, 05:17 PM
I think this was posted last week.
Hm did you read the article?

By Marty O'Brien

June 23, 2009

"I talked to 'B' a few days ago," Cutler said during an appearance Monday at William and Mary's Colonial All-Pro Football Camp.

He made some similar comments (Hester is a no.1 WR yadda yadda) last week but this is a new interview (today).

BroncoBuff
06-22-2009, 05:19 PM
Jay is right of course .... B gets his head on straight and the sky's the limit.


I'm drunk, can you tell?

Los Broncos
06-22-2009, 05:20 PM
Hm did you read the article?

By Marty O'Brien

June 23, 2009



He made some similar comments (Hester is a no.1 WR yadda yadda) last week but this is a new interview (today).

My bad, thought this was the post.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=81378

BabyTO
06-22-2009, 05:27 PM
No problem when i read this i also had to double check it because of some of the comments he made (again).

Los Broncos
06-22-2009, 05:28 PM
No problem when i read this i also had to double check it because of some of the comments he made (again).

Yeah, I didn't bother to check the date, my fault :)

Inkana7
06-22-2009, 06:07 PM
Jay's a douchebag.

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 06:07 PM
The Washington Redskins also made a run at Cutler. Cutler empathizes with how Redskins' quarterback Jason Campbell must have felt as the team sought his replacement.

"It's tough," Cutler said. "It happened to me. He's handled it great. He's said very few things, kind of handled it internally within the organization and kept it in the building."

"He's just got to keep doing what he's doing — work hard and run the offense."



i find it odd that he understands that, seeing as he handled his own situation like a 4 year old with hurt feelings. crying to the media, getting his agent to complain for him and eventually giving the silent treatment until he got his way.

DBroncos4life
06-22-2009, 06:15 PM
I doubt he really praised Marshall at all. I bet he said something along the lines of Marshall? Marshall who? Oh you mean that dumb ass that beats up chicks and eats babies I use to throw the ball to in the **** hole of a city I used to play for last year. That guy was only good because of me and my golden rocket arm that is stronger then Elways and Farves put together. Then he grabbed a bottle of vodka and chugged that and punched the interviewer in the face and said **** you I'm out.

_Oro_
06-22-2009, 06:35 PM
Cutler on Marshall...

Big, Fast, Strong, can do anything you want. Can be the
greatest to ever play.

Cutler on Hester...

Well he's a converted DB who is still learning, but yeah he can
be a legitimate #1.

DBroncos4life
06-22-2009, 06:40 PM
Cutler on Marshall...

Big, Fast, Strong, can do anything you want. Can be the
greatest to ever play.

Cutler on Hester...

Well he's a converted DB who is still learning, but yeah he can
be a legitimate #1.

Sounds right for a guy that does nothing but toss his team mates under busses.

GreatBronco16
06-22-2009, 06:51 PM
Sounds right for a guy that does nothing but toss his team mates under busses.

Wait till the games start and his receivers are dropping his passes or the Oline has him running for his life taking a lot of hits.

BabyTO
06-22-2009, 06:54 PM
Cutler on Marshall...

Big, Fast, Strong, can do anything you want. Can be the
greatest to ever play.

Cutler on Hester...

Well he's a converted DB who is still learning, but yeah he can
be a legitimate #1.
What is he supposed to say about Hester? He sucks? He's not a starter? Everyone knows he sucks. He can't say that, it's his team mate now.

Man-Goblin
06-22-2009, 06:57 PM
Tampering. That's another 1st rounder. Cough it up, Chicago.

Baba Booey
06-22-2009, 07:00 PM
The Washington Redskins also made a run at Cutler. Cutler empathizes with how Redskins' quarterback Jason Campbell must have felt as the team sought his replacement.

"It's tough," Cutler said. "It happened to me. He's handled it great. He's said very few things, kind of handled it internally within the organization and kept it in the building."

"He's just got to keep doing what he's doing — work hard and run the offense."

http://www.lolwut.com/layout/lolwut.jpg

You basically just **** on yourself, Jay.

TonyR
06-22-2009, 07:19 PM
...Cutler, who was traded for two first-round draft picks, a fifth-round draft pick and Chicago QB Kyle Orton...

Why can't anybody get this right? Denver got two 1st round picks, a 3rd round pick, and Orton. Chicago got Cutler and a 5th round pick.

Rulon Velvet Jones
06-22-2009, 08:57 PM
Who knew these two were so gay for each other?

And Jay...keep it shut, son. Every time you open your mouth, you come off as a bigger douchebag than the time before.

"If we make a run at him"...Does this idiot honestly think Denver would trade Marshall to Chicago to let him play with Cutler? Not a chance in the world.

ZONA
06-22-2009, 09:05 PM
Chicago doesn't have any chips to play anymore. This is all media blow. I guess that pretty much ends this story.

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 09:10 PM
Practically 95% of this board were Cutler and Marshall fanboys last December and now both players are with Al Qaeda. WTF!!!

McDickless isn't going to keep me from being a fan of the two. These two actually did great things for the Broncos. This pee wee head coach hasn't done jack **** for the franchise. He hasn't won a game. He doesn't even know what being a Bronco is all about.

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 09:15 PM
Jay's a douchebag.

Back in June of 1984, I wish one particular couple would have used birth control.

tsiguy96
06-22-2009, 09:18 PM
Practically 95% of this board were Cutler and Marshall fanboys last December and now both players are with Al Qaeda. WTF!!!

McDickless isn't going to keep me from being a fan of the two. These two actually did great things for the Broncos. This pee wee head coach hasn't done jack **** for the franchise. He hasn't won a game. He doesn't even know what being a Bronco is all about.

hmmm alright. well, ill continue to be a fan of the TEAM, you can be a fan of the bears QB ;)

mcdaniels has never lost a game as broncos coach either.

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 09:30 PM
Practically 95% of this board were Cutler and Marshall fanboys last December and now both players are with Al Qaeda. WTF!!!

McDickless isn't going to keep me from being a fan of the two. These two actually did great things for the Broncos. This pee wee head coach hasn't done jack **** for the franchise. He hasn't won a game. He doesn't even know what being a Bronco is all about.

in the last decade, being a Bronco came to be known as being a mediocre team, with a lot of bitching and moaning, and an aversion to putting in the necessary work and desire to get to a Super Bowl or to be more than average.

McDaniels doesn't know about being mediocre in his career, he knows about being a winner, and being apart of a team favored in almost every single game they play, and being apart of a team that isn't about catering to the guys who think they are above the team, but rather about making the team the most important thing to each individual.

I'll gladly take some Patriots style mentallity in Denver, if it gets us past being annually mediocre, and in a continual state of saying, "wait til next season, or next season we are going to be good, we are going to turn the corner" only to end up the same as we were the year before regardless of the overpriced FA signings, or bad decisions by GM Mike Shanahan.

tsiguy96
06-22-2009, 09:30 PM
What team? There's been so much change, how can anybody relate to anybody on the Broncos? The Broncos team store employees told me on the phone that we don't even know who our marquee player is anymore.

The one constant with this franchise now is Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis. Lets pay for Broncos merchandise and tickets because he love the ownership and the executives. They are so cool!!! I can't wait for Upper Deck to start printing NFL executive cards.

what team? the ****ing broncos, d-bag. after the defensive season we had last year, we have basically an entirely new D and special teams, youre gonna complain about that?. the offense is almost unchanged, except for RB and QB.

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 09:31 PM
hmmm alright. well, ill continue to be a fan of the TEAM, you can be a fan of the bears QB ;)
mcdaniels has never lost a game as broncos coach either.
What team? There's been so much change, how can anybody relate to anybody on the Broncos? The Broncos team store employees told me on the phone that we don't even know who our marquee player is anymore.

The one constant with this franchise now is Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis. Lets pay for Broncos merchandise and tickets because we love the ownership and the executives. They are so cool!!! I can't wait for Upper Deck to start printing NFL executive cards.

Lets just go watch the games, keep stuffing money in Bowlen's pockets because we like the helmet logo and the colors of the uniforms.

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 09:39 PM
What team? There's been so much change, how can anybody relate to anybody on the Broncos? The Broncos team store employees told me on the phone that we don't even know who our marquee player is anymore.

The one constant with this franchise now is Pat Bowlen and Joe Ellis. Lets pay for Broncos merchandise and tickets because he love the ownership and the executives. They are so cool!!! I can't wait for Upper Deck to start printing NFL executive cards.

Lets just go watch the games, keep stuffing money in Bowlen's pockets because we like the helmet logo and the colors of the uniforms.

What team? The DENVER BRONCOS.

people relate to the team because they are fans of the team. I fell in love with the Broncos when Elway was the QB, and TD was toting the rock, Shannon Sharpe was talking **** and kicking ass on the field, Atwater was blowing dudes up. the point i am making, in the NFL players come and go, but the team is always there, ready to supply a new batch of players to love, and relate to.

and i for one, will happily watch as McDaniels fixes the mess Shanahan left behind and watch as young unknowns become the new foundation of the team and become the players we all love.

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 09:39 PM
in the last decade, being a Bronco came to be known as being a mediocre team, with a lot of b****ing and moaning, and an aversion to putting in the necessary work and desire to get to a Super Bowl or to be more than average.

McDaniels doesn't know about being mediocre in his career, he knows about being a winner, and being apart of a team favored in almost every single game they play, and being apart of a team that isn't about catering to the guys who think they are above the team, but rather about making the team the most important thing to each individual.

I'll gladly take some Patriots style mentallity in Denver, if it gets us past being annually mediocre, and in a continual state of saying, "wait til next season, or next season we are going to be good, we are going to turn the corner" only to end up the same as we were the year before regardless of the overpriced FA signings, or bad decisions by GM Mike Shanahan.

McDaniels is way over his head. His two teachers were Nick Saban and Bill Belichick. You think some 32-year-old punk is going to take their hard ass approach (the only thing he knows) and come into a NFL locker room and win over players?

I hate the Patriots style mentality. Their management and coaches treated their players like meat in Foxboro. They were nasty to the press as well. I don't want to be like them. I don't want the Broncos to be modeled after that franchise.

New England won games, but they have no class. It all started at the top with Robert Kraft, a slimeball owner. It's nice to see Joe Ellis is filling his role quite nicely here.

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 09:43 PM
what team? the ****ing broncos, d-bag. after the defensive season we had last year, we have basically an entirely new D and special teams, youre gonna complain about that?. the offense is almost unchanged, except for RB and QB.

On paper, the talent level is garbage. Systems don't win games, good players do.

How many Pro Bowl caliber players does this team have under-30? Clady, Harris, Royal. Maybe DJ. Maybe Knowshon. That's it.

DarkHorse30
06-22-2009, 09:45 PM
McDickless isn't going to keep me from being a fan of the two. These two actually did great things for the Broncos. This pee wee head coach hasn't done jack **** for the franchise. He hasn't won a game.


....which makes his Denver Bronco W-L record better than Cutler

He doesn't even know what being a Bronco is all about.

....and neither does our former QB

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 09:45 PM
McDaniels is way over his head. His two teachers were Nick Saban and Bill Belichick. You think some 32-year-old punk is going to take their hard ass approach (the only thing he knows) and come into a NFL locker room and win over players?

I hate the Patriots style mentality. Their management and coaches treated their players like meat in Foxboro. They were nasty to the press as well. I don't want to be like them. I don't want the Broncos to be modeled after that franchise.

New England won games, but they have no class. It all started at the top with Robert Kraft, a slimeball owner. It's nice to see Joe Ellis is filling his role quite nicely here.

i don't care about age. and so far outside of Jay crying like a little bitch, every player has bought into McDaniels, even Scheff has come around and is seeing things his coaches way after being upset with him earlier in the offseason.
what's so bad about the Patriots mentality? they put foot to ass on players who think they are above the team and keep winning. the only thing that is bad is the way they are with the media, but McDaniels learned the Pats style of working with the media doesn't fly out here in Denver and is getting better with that.

Popps
06-22-2009, 09:45 PM
really cutler, you whiny p***Y? campbell has "got to..work hard and run the offense" while you get to b**** and moan on national TV about being upset? talk about ego, how good do you think you are?


"It's tough," Cutler said. "It happened to me. He's handled it great. He's said very few things, kind of handled it internally within the organization and kept it in the building."

Sort of amazing that the douche bag could even say that out loud. I wonder if he caught himself half-way through and said, "wow... I'm making myself sound like an even bigger schmuck"

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 09:50 PM
What team? The DENVER BRONCOS.

people relate to the team because they are fans of the team. I fell in love with the Broncos when Elway was the QB, and TD was toting the rock, Shannon Sharpe was talking **** and kicking ass on the field, Atwater was blowing dudes up. the point i am making, in the NFL players come and go, but the team is always there, ready to supply a new batch of players to love, and relate to.

and i for one, will happily watch as McDaniels fixes the mess Shanahan left behind and watch as young unknowns become the new foundation of the team and become the players we all love.

I don't have a problem with losing. If the team went 0-16 and had likeable guys that busted their tail, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I just hate McDaniels. His press conferences suck. His locker room speeches suck. His handling of players is terrible. He has no charisma. His interactions with fans are disingenuine. There's absolutely nothing I like about him. I can't rally around him because I despise everything about him as a person and a head coach.

He doesn't make me proud to be a Broncos fan. He doesn't even know what it means to be a Bronco.

outdoor_miner
06-22-2009, 09:54 PM
I don't have a problem with losing. If the team went 0-16 and had likeable guys that busted their tail, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I just hate McDaniels. His press conferences suck. His locker room speeches suck. His handling of players is terrible. He has no charisma. His interactions with fans are disingenuine. There's absolutely nothing I like about him. I can't rally around him because I despise everything about him as a person and a head coach.

He doesn't make me proud to be a Broncos fan. He doesn't even know what it means to be a Bronco.

Yet you can root for a whiney frat-boy like Cutler or a woman-beater like Marshall?

tsiguy96
06-22-2009, 09:54 PM
I don't have a problem with losing. If the team went 0-16 and had likeable guys that busted their tail, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I just hate McDaniels. His press conferences suck. His locker room speeches suck. His handling of players is terrible. He has no charisma. His interactions with fans are disingenuine. There's absolutely nothing I like about him. I can't rally around him because I despise everything about him as a person and a head coach.

He doesn't make me proud to be a Broncos fan. He doesn't even know what it means to be a Bronco.

a. how many of his locker room speeches have you seen?
b. how many times have you seen him handle players?
c. how do you know his fan interactions are not genuine?
d. have you ever met him to know you dont like him?
e. you wont rally around the head coach of the team, the guy who leads the team to wins, how do you call yourself an actual fan of the team?
f. how do you describe what "it means to be a bronco"?

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 09:57 PM
I don't have a problem with losing. If the team went 0-16 and had likeable guys that busted their tail, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I just hate McDaniels. His press conferences suck. His locker room speeches suck. His handling of players is terrible. He has no charisma. His interactions with fans are disingenuine. There's absolutely nothing I like about him. I can't rally around him because I despise everything about him as a person and a head coach.

He doesn't make me proud to be a Broncos fan. He doesn't even know what it means to be a Bronco.

the guy has 3 months of experience giving press conferences, and you fault him for that. how is his handling of players bad? Cutler was a whiny bitch because McDaniels received a phone call and gave a moments worth of thought to possibly reuniting with a QB he built up from nothing, Marshall wants more money which has nothing to do with McDaniels. So what about his player handling is bad? from what i hear about fan fair, people flocked to this guy, seems pretty charismatic to me.

doesn't know what it means to be a Bronco, neither did Jay, neither does Marshall. and if you are so butt hurt and ashamed to be a Broncos fan, then don't be a fan of the Broncos. there are thousands of true Broncos fans who will stand by the team regardless of feelings toward certain players or coaches, so you won't be missed. follow pussy boy to Chicago and root for them, since you are so ashamed to be a Broncos fan.

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 09:58 PM
i don't care about age. and so far outside of Jay crying like a little b****, every player has bought into McDaniels, even Scheff has come around and is seeing things his coaches way after being upset with him earlier in the offseason.

It's easy for players to be happy with McDaniels now. They are practicing in shorts and everything is all good and dandy.

Just wait until the regular season arrives and the Broncos lose a few games, things will change. The regular season is when McDaniels will win or lose this locker room.

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 10:03 PM
I hope McDaniels goes 1-15 this year because I want Denver to have plenty of reason to fire his ass after one year. The Cam Cameron plan!!!

The best thing for the Broncos organization over the long run is to get McDaniels' sorry ass out of the door asap. I don't need to see three years of this **** when I know this team isn't going anywhere.

The Broncos' chances of reaching the Super Bowl will increase multifold the sooner they get McDaniels butt out of here.

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 10:06 PM
Yet you can root for a whiney frat-boy like Cutler or a woman-beater like Marshall?

I can't wait to see Orton's three yard check down!!!

Nice to know my season ticket money is going to good use this year. I love watching UFL quality quarterbacking when I am paying NFL prices!!!

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 10:09 PM
It's easy for players to be happy with McDaniels now. They are practicing in shorts and everything is all good and dandy.

Just wait until the regular season arrives and the Broncos lose a few games, things will change. The regular season is when McDaniels will win or lose this locker room.

the tough players, who want to win and keep a job will still be happy with McDaniels. look at Nolan, the guy is a hardass and players probably hate his guts but his defenses kick ass when he is a DC. he paces the sidelines and jumps in the faces of players who **** up. look around the league at most successful coaches, they aren't coddling the players and being best buddies with them. Had Mike and his assistants actually been tough with the players we wouldn't have fielded soft teams the last decade. Jay would NOT have been a little bitch, he would have been a man and still would be in Denver.

Coaches and players aren't supposed to be friends, they are supposed to have an employee-employer relationship.

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 10:10 PM
I can't wait to see Orton's three yard check down!!!

Nice to know my season ticket money is going to good use this year. I love watching UFL quality quarterbacking when I am paying NFL prices!!!

better than Cutler's let me rifle it into triple coverage interceptions, or untimely fumble.

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 10:14 PM
I hope McDaniels goes 1-15 this year because I want Denver to have plenty of reason to fire his ass after one year. The Cam Cameron plan!!!

The best thing for the Broncos organization over the long run is to get McDaniels' sorry ass out of the door asap. I don't need to see three years of this **** when I know this team isn't going anywhere.

The Broncos' chances of reaching the Super Bowl will increase multifold the sooner they get McDaniels butt out of here.

you really are a stupid mother****er.

1-15 means a new coach and another offseason of a coach further blowing up the team, and new assistant coaches, new schemes the remaining players have to learn. which adds to a longer wait for becoming good.

the Broncos best chances of reaching a super bowl, comes with consistency, not forcing the players to have to learn new systems every year, or having a brand new set of players that chemistry needs to be built with every season, and by the coaches finally instilling a toughness to the team.

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 10:17 PM
better than Cutler's let me rifle it into triple coverage interceptions, or untimely fumble.

Orton has the same career INT percentage as Cutler. Except Orton doesn't bring all the good stuff that Cutler provides - the yards/attempt, the TDs and the ability to chuck it 60 yards down field and scare the **** out of opposing defenses.

outdoor_miner
06-22-2009, 10:21 PM
I can't wait to see Orton's three yard check down!!!

Nice to know my season ticket money is going to good use this year. I love watching UFL quality quarterbacking when I am paying NFL prices!!!

Well - you just said you would be ok with losing if we had "likeable guys that busted their tail". That pretty much describes Orton (and all the guys McDaniels is bringing in) to a "T".

Meanwhile, we shipped out a guy who really and truly appears to be a prick. He yells at his teammates, is surly to fans and media, prolonged an embarrassing media battle with Phillip Rivers (and then proceeded to play like ass the last time we played the Chargers), and regularly pouts on the field when things don't go his way. The other guy that has a problem with the Broncos FO is a woman beater (I guess I should say "alleged")...

DOES NOT COMPUTE!

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 10:28 PM
Orton has the same career INT percentage as Cutler. Except Orton doesn't bring all the good stuff that Cutler provides - the yards/attempt, the TDs and the ability to chuck it 60 yards down field and scare the **** out of opposing defenses.

Orton has also been running for his life behind a line that nearly gets him killed weakly. he also has only ever had 2 receiving weapons in Forte and Olsen, so the fact that his INT percentage is in line with a guy who has been protected by a really good line even the weak 2006 and 2007 lines were elite in comparison with what the Bears fielded, shows that Orton was just as good as a guy with more weapons and better protection. give him Jay's level of protection and weapons, and he will put up better numbers than Jay will in Chicago

and even with Cutler's ability to chuck it 60 yards downfield, he sucked at those passes anyway, so it became a moot point. and once again when you play in a conservative offense, that is run dominated, with no real receiving weapons, there are not going to be as many opportunities for TD passes, or longer passes. and unlike Jay who has been babied his entire career, Orton has worked hard, and fought for all he has achieved in the NFL.

and since you brought up numbers, here is the best of them all.

Orton 21-12 as a starter - Jay 17-20 as a starter.

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 10:30 PM
Well - you just said you would be ok with losing if we had "likeable guys that busted their tail". That pretty much describes Orton (and all the guys McDaniels is bringing in) to a "T".

Meanwhile, we shipped out a guy who really and truly appears to be a prick. He yells at his teammates, is surly to fans and media, prolonged an embarrassing media battle with Phillip Rivers (and then proceeded to play like ass the last time we played the Chargers), and regularly pouts on the field when things don't go his way. The other guy that has a problem with the Broncos FO is a woman beater (I guess I should say "alleged")...

DOES NOT COMPUTE!

Likeable guys refers to players that entertain on the field with their football abilities. Watching football is about excitement.

Orton is boring. He's a below average talent that doesn't have the ceiling of a Super Bowl winning quarterback. That's enough not to like him. It's Brian Griese and Jake Plummer all over again:( We have been through this before, we know it doesn't work!

Lets keep talking about how great the Patriot Way is and how the system itself is going to win the AFC West for us and forget the fact that McDaniels had Tom Brady behind center. A strong armed Hall of Fame quarterback with flawless mechanics and exceptional footwork.

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 10:31 PM
Well - you just said you would be ok with losing if we had "likeable guys that busted their tail". That pretty much describes Orton (and all the guys McDaniels is bringing in) to a "T".

Meanwhile, we shipped out a guy who really and truly appears to be a prick. He yells at his teammates, is surly to fans and media, prolonged an embarrassing media battle with Phillip Rivers (and then proceeded to play like ass the last time we played the Chargers), and regularly pouts on the field when things don't go his way. The other guy that has a problem with the Broncos FO is a woman beater (I guess I should say "alleged")...

DOES NOT COMPUTE!

i agree completely, and i am not really upset with the Marshall business. it is common that players hold out when they want more money. and even in his situation, he isn't flapping his mouth to the media, he is handling it in house like a man. he understands it is business and that it is best not to piss off the man signing his checks on the more than likely situation he doesn't get traded.

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 10:41 PM
Likeable guys refers to players that entertain on the field with their football abilities. Watching football is about excitement.

Orton is boring. He's a below average talent that doesn't have the ceiling of a Super Bowl winning quarterback. That's enough not to like him. It's Brian Griese and Jake Plummer all over again:( We have been through this before, we know it doesn't work!

Lets keep talking about how great the Patriot Way is and how the system itself is going to win the AFC West for us and forget the fact that McDaniels had Tom Brady behind center. A strong armed Hall of Fame quarterback with flawless mechanics and uncanny footwork and pocket presence.

Brian Griese led us to 11-5 and a playoff berth in which we were a favorite to get to and win a super bowl, he was also named to a pro bowl as a Bronco. Jake Plummer led us to 13-3 and the AFCCG and went to a pro bowl as a Bronco. Jay led us to 17-20 as our starter. point is, 2 less talented QBs playing in a SYSTEM that a good offensive mind came up with, got us farther than a QB with more physical talent. i will gladly take a fiery competitor like Orton leading the team in a QB FRIENDLY SYSTEM that is going to heighten his abilities and hide his weaknesses.

also, since when has strong armed ever been used to describe Brady?

Hulamau
06-22-2009, 10:43 PM
On paper, the talent level is garbage. Systems don't win games, good players do.

How many Pro Bowl caliber players does this team have under-30? Clady, Harris, Royal. Maybe DJ. Maybe Knowshon. That's it.

Tjes, other whiner :-\ ... It must have been late and you were tired when you wrote that right? Lets fill in the list a bit . Kuper, Scheff, Hillis will definitely become pro bowl quality players with a bit of injury luck as well. And Scheff even more so if he can play 16 games with his increased role if Marshall is really gone, (which I doubt unless we get to rob the cookie jar of some other team).

Ayers and Alphonso are also likely future pro bowl worthy talent under 30. And like with most teams, at least a cou0le guys who no one yet expects will blossom into stud players even if they take a couple years to do so.

In any event, that is TEN players under 30 who are definite contenders for Pro bowl quality play that we know of at the moment. 10 out of 22 starters, not so bad. Count that out on any other team and I suspect we look pretty good for the under 30 crowd.

I could also see where a guy like Kenny McKinley could develop that kind of talent in a couple years as well in this system.

And of course, we have Champ, Dawkins and Doom who could possibly step it up at OLB with his better suited size for that position.

Now step back and factor in that this team is now being put together from the ground up (i.e. see the nature and quality of draft picks, going for solid team-oriented players at every position rather than Mel Kiper fanboy picks) from a tradition that plays at a high level and goes deep in the playoffs nearly every year, with only a handful of stars ( or at least very few who anyone would have picked as por bowl caliber palyers in their first few years) and a lot of smart hard nose players who give 100% weve week and bench stacked with quality depth throughout the team. Then you quickly realize what McD is trying to do here.

Of course, seeing that would take getting one's head out of their ass and stop sucking the cyanide each morning, but hey, whatever floats your boat! ...... 'Welcome' to the Mane :sunshine:

tsiguy96
06-22-2009, 10:43 PM
Brian Griese led us to 11-5 and a playoff berth in which we were a favorite to get to and win a super bowl, he was also named to a pro bowl as a Bronco. Jake Plummer led us to 13-3 and the AFCCG and went to a pro bowl as a Bronco. Jay led us to 17-20 as our starter. point is, 2 less talented QBs playing in a SYSTEM that a good offensive mind came up with, got us farther than a QB with more physical talent. i will gladly take a fiery competitor like Orton leading the team in a QB FRIENDLY SYSTEM that is going to heighten his abilities and hide his weaknesses.

also, since when has strong armed ever been used to describe Brady?

i too find it odd that the teams with the stronger running game (last year shanny just started chucking the ball every single play instead of establishing a running game. when we did, we won) and a QB who was slightly limited in comparison to cutler in attempts, did far better than the cutler teams that threw the ball 43.5 times a game.

BearMan18
06-22-2009, 10:48 PM
Practically 95% of this board were Cutler and Marshall fanboys last December and now both players are with Al Qaeda. WTF!!!

McDickless isn't going to keep me from being a fan of the two. These two actually did great things for the Broncos. This pee wee head coach hasn't done jack **** for the franchise. He hasn't won a game. He doesn't even know what being a Bronco is all about.

Join date: June 2009.

I smell a double poster.

Miss I.
06-22-2009, 10:50 PM
umm, did someone just hope for us to get a 1-15 record this year? Why would anyone want our team to lose? Regardless of liking the coach, if he gets us wins, isn't that a good thing? I mean you seem to like Marshall and Cutler because of talent, regardless of their wins (because we didn't have a lot of them), so why not give McD a chance and the hope he will prove he has talent if that's what is best for the team? I don't get it... Plus the marquee player thing...don't we still have at the very least Champ on D and oh who's the fellow, Clady on O?

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 10:50 PM
Ayers and Alphonso are also likely future pro bowl worthy talent under 30. And like with most teams, at least a cou0le guys who no one yet expects will blossom into stud players even if they take a couple years to do so.

In any event, that is TEN players under 30 who are definite contenders for Pro bowl quality play that we know of at the moment. 10 out of 22 starters, not so bad. Count that out on any other team and I suspect we look pretty good for the under 30 crowd.

I could also see where a guy like Kenny McKinley could develop that kind of talent in a couple years as well in this system.

And of course, we have Champ, Dawkins and Doom who could possibly step it up at OLB with his better suited size for that position.


i agree with the out of nowhere players who become studs for the team. a good example of that is James Harrison

I think McKinley is going to become our replacment for Stokley in the slot in a couple years..

Doom is a guy, i can see becoming an absolute beast as a pass rushing OLB. i am fine with him being rotational and used strictly on pass rushing downs, because i think he can become a pro bowler in that role, and if he did become a full time starter i think he could kick ass in that role too.

CHamp and Dawkins are just 2 badass pros who are going to get the job done.

Dale Snorts Blow
06-22-2009, 10:53 PM
Brian Griese led us to 11-5 and a playoff berth in which we were a favorite to get to and win a super bowl, he was also named to a pro bowl as a Bronco.

Denver was a 5th seeded wild card that year, not a favorite to get to the Super Bowl. And Griese did not lead Denver on their hot stretch to the postseason, it was Gus Frerotte who was starter for 5 of the Broncos' 6 wins down the stretch.

Jake Plummer led us to 13-3 and the AFCCG and went to a pro bowl as a Bronco. Jay led us to 17-20 as our starter. point is, 2 less talented QBs playing in a SYSTEM that a good offensive mind came up with, got us farther than a QB with more physical talent. i will gladly take a fiery competitor like Orton leading the team in a QB FRIENDLY SYSTEM that is going to heighten his abilities and hide his weaknesses.

Griese never started a playoff game for the Broncos. The Broncos were 6-4 when he got hurt in 2000. His track record ultimately was not much different from Cutler from a team success prospective. Not to mention, he had two more years here.

Plummer played his 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th NFL season with Denver. Gee, lets compare a veteran quarterback with that much experience and a top 10 defense at his side to a young quarterback in seasons 2-3 with a bottom five defensive unit.

also, since when has strong armed ever been used to describe Brady?

Have you watched Brady of late? He has no problem throwing the ball 50 yards down the field in stride.

watermock
06-22-2009, 10:54 PM
it is common that players hold out when they want more money. and even in his situation, he isn't flapping his mouth to the media, he is handling it in house like a man. he understands it is business and that it is best not to piss off the man signing his checks on the more than likely situation he doesn't get traded.

As far as no going PUBLIC, BM allready HAS thru his blog, and said BOWLEN said he would accomodate a trade. Also, BOWLEN has said nothing to refute that statement whatsoever.

BroncoMan4ever
06-22-2009, 10:55 PM
umm, did someone just hope for us to get a 1-15 record this year? Why would anyone want our team to lose? Regardless of liking the coach, if he gets us wins, isn't that a good thing? I mean you seem to like Marshall and Cutler because of talent, regardless of their wins (because we didn't have a lot of them), so why not give McD a chance and the hope he will prove he has talent if that's what is best for the team? I don't get it... Plus the marquee player thing...don't we still have at the very least Champ on D and oh who's the fellow, Clady on O?

i agree completely. i am not the biggest McDaniels fan(too soon to decide whether i like him or not) but i am giving the dude a chance. so far i like his offseason moves. but even if i hated the guys guts, i want him to kick ass while he coaches in Denver. i want the guy to be successful for the next decade, because if he is successful the team is successful. and if i end up hating him, i will still want him to be successful here, but after he is done here, i won't care if he wins another game or not.

Miss I.
06-22-2009, 11:11 PM
******* know nothing about football. Stick to basket weaving, ****.

oh sweetie, I think you got the biatch thing covered...so in jail are you the top or bottom, I am guessing Bottom...BTW, any relation to Casino Royal?


Oh one more thing, you use that ****ing word on here again, I am going to turn your outie into an innie....just a friendly gift between well not friends, but whatever..:kiss:

AZBroncomaniac
06-22-2009, 11:23 PM
******* know nothing about football. Stick to basket weaving, ****.

Way the **** out of line. Get that **** outta here.

lazarus4444
06-22-2009, 11:40 PM
******* know nothing about football. Stick to basket weaving, ****.

So who is this? broncobuff? mcskillet? obviously somebody who doesn't want to sacrifice their account with 10's of thousands of posts. Just man up you p***Y.

BroncoMan4ever
06-23-2009, 01:51 AM
Have you watched Brady of late? He has no problem throwing the ball 50 yards down the field in stride.

being able to throw the ball 50 yards downfield doesn't mean you have a strong arm, it means you are an NFL QB. i'd bet Pennington could float a ball 50 yards. arm strength means getting the ball there with velocity and power.

and just because he hits receivers in stride isn't due to arm strength it is about being a precise passer, who can put good touch on the ball. Jay could chuck a ball 60-70 yards and with power, but he was terrible at hitting his receiver in stride.

BroncoMan4ever
06-23-2009, 01:54 AM
Denver was a 5th seeded wild card that year, not a favorite to get to the Super Bowl. And Griese did not lead Denver on their hot stretch to the postseason, it was Gus Frerotte who was starter for 5 of the Broncos' 6 wins down the stretch.




do you not remember that season. when we got to the playoffs, it was talked about a lot that the winner of our playoff game against Baltimore, was the best bet to win the super bowl that year. and that was correct, Baltimore beat us and went on to win the super bowl.

Hulamau
06-23-2009, 02:55 AM
Likeable guys refers to players that entertain on the field with their football abilities. Watching football is about excitement.

Orton is boring. He's a below average talent that doesn't have the ceiling of a Super Bowl winning quarterback. That's enough not to like him. It's Brian Griese and Jake Plummer all over again:( We have been through this before, we know it doesn't work!

Lets keep talking about how great the Patriot Way is and how the system itself is going to win the AFC West for us and forget the fact that McDaniels had Tom Brady behind center. A strong armed Hall of Fame quarterback with flawless mechanics and exceptional footwork.

Brady is no Cutler ... when it comes to arm strength ... he just knows how to win and learned great fundamentals and techniques in the NE system, a good bit of it with Josh in his ear.

Meck77
06-23-2009, 03:00 AM
Uh huh. I wonder if anyone from the "Cutler is the next Elway"group is still willing to raise their hand?

rastaman
06-23-2009, 04:00 AM
Practically 95% of this board were Cutler and Marshall fanboys last December and now both players are with Al Qaeda. WTF!!!

McDickless isn't going to keep me from being a fan of the two. These two actually did great things for the Broncos. This pee wee head coach hasn't done jack **** for the franchise. He hasn't won a game. He doesn't even know what being a Bronco is all about.

Spot on! Just b/c the "Cutler Haters" wish him ill-will doesn't make it so that it comes to fruition. Imagine the NERVE of any Bronco player not wanting to be a Bronco anymore.....the nerve of that player. Dont these Bronco players know once they sign a contract with Denver, they automatically become slaves and entertainment MONKIES for Romanistic Fans of the Denver Broncos. How dare any Bronco player want a trade out of Denver!!! WE OWN YOU.....DO AS YOUR TOLD!!

McDaniels, Bowlen, and Orton don't get cart Blanche period! All 3 have got to produce and prove they are a winner to the FANS and let the chips fall where they may.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-23-2009, 04:15 AM
I don't have a problem with losing. If the team went 0-16 and had likeable guys that busted their tail, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I just hate McDaniels. His press conferences suck. His locker room speeches suck. His handling of players is terrible. He has no charisma. His interactions with fans are disingenuine. There's absolutely nothing I like about him. I can't rally around him because I despise everything about him as a person and a head coach.

He doesn't make me proud to be a Broncos fan. He doesn't even know what it means to be a Bronco.

I call bull****. One year of 0-16, you'd call for his head. Two years and it would be literal. But nice try, Dale.

Oh, and who gives a flying **** about what the people working at the team store said to you? Do they know ANYTHING about football? Unlikely.

watermock
06-23-2009, 04:24 AM
Uh huh. I wonder if anyone from the "Cutler is the next Elway"group is still willing to raise their hand?


That's immaterial. In fact, Elway demonstrated many similiar traits.

In fact, more common than uncommen.

Main difference is Culer bowed his head when the defense was on the field.

Meck77
06-23-2009, 04:36 AM
That's immaterial. In fact, Elway demonstrated many similiar traits.



It's very relevant. In fact I doubt Cutler will even be playing football in just a few years with his condition. For that matter I'm not so sure Marshall will either. From what I've heard he can't even walk right now.

Forget about being the best ever. Most guys don't even have the physical strength and endurance to play as long as John Elway or a Jerry Rice.

s0phr0syne
06-23-2009, 05:32 AM
It's very relevant. In fact I doubt Cutler will even be playing football in just a few years with his condition. For that matter I'm not so sure Marshall will either. From what I've heard he can't even walk right now.

Forget about being the best ever. Most guys don't even have the physical strength and endurance to play as long as John Elway or a Jerry Rice.



Wow, you are very ill-informed, not just about Diabetes but clearly also about Marshall's health.

Diabetes, type I--not a degenerative condition, and if well managed, it's not even noticeable on the physiologic level.

Marshall's health--there've been videos of him running around from this weekend where he held the children's football camp. That's a farcry from not being able to walk.

worm
06-23-2009, 05:52 AM
Ayers and Alphonso are also likely future pro bowl worthy talent under 30. And like with most teams, at least a cou0le guys who no one yet expects will blossom into stud players even if they take a couple years to do so.


Stop smoking your cities product.

Ayers and Alphonso are prospects. Nothing more. They are more likely to bust than not if you look at the %'s.

One rookie is being asked to play snaps at a new position that has proven to be the hardest to predict how well college skills translate too.

The other rookie is being asked to tackle the '2nd hardest position' with a height disadvantage to overcome.

You have them both as pro-bowl worthy before their 1st training camp?

BroncoInSkinland
06-23-2009, 05:53 AM
1. I seriously doubt in ten years that Marshall will be in the discussion for "one of the greatest ever".

2. Wishing for the team to go 1-15 so that we get rid of a coach who hasn't proven either that he deserves our support OR our dislike seems to me to be a little extreme. I have doubts about the team, but I have never, and will never root for them to lose a single game.

3. The diabetes will probably not cause any significant decrease for Jay UNLESS he sustains a serious injury. The only way that I can see diabetes affecting his career is slower healing times and the possibility of nagging injuries if he gets too beat up. Another really good reason he should have avoided Chicagos line IMHO.

4. I like Jay, and wish he were still here, but some of the quotes in that article reek of douchebaggery even for me.

5. I think it is highly unlikely we will have ten under 30 probowl players on the roster this year, but upon rereading I see Hula said probowl talent, not necessarily that they would make it to the probowl. It's a fine distinction, but it is there. I doubt all three of our top 3 draft picks turn out that well, that would be an amazing draft, but what the heck, June is the time for optimism.

55CrushEm
06-23-2009, 06:36 AM
....which makes his Denver Bronco W-L record better than Cutler



....and neither does our former QB

Nice to see you back on the board again, DarkHorse. I don't think I've seen you post in quite some time.

55CrushEm
06-23-2009, 06:43 AM
So who is this? broncobuff? mcskillet? obviously somebody who doesn't want to sacrifice their account with 10's of thousands of posts. Just man up you p***Y.

Lex?

vancejohnson82
06-23-2009, 07:12 AM
Wow, you are very ill-informed, not just about Diabetes but clearly also about Marshall's health.

Diabetes, type I--not a degenerative condition, and if well managed, it's not even noticeable on the physiologic level..

OK....Diabetes can most definitely be a degenerative condition.....the thing that Jay has going for him is that he has professionals around the clock looking after him, invested in how he feels every day

For a normal person it most definitely becomes degenerative because it takes mroe and more time to take care of it....it also has violent swings where all of a sudden you need to eat/snack or rest....that WOULD effect a player if there wasnt a training staff there at all times during practice and whatnot

Cito Pelon
06-23-2009, 07:49 AM
McDaniels is way over his head. His two teachers were Nick Saban and Bill Belichick. You think some 32-year-old punk is going to take their hard ass approach (the only thing he knows) and come into a NFL locker room and win over players?

I hate the Patriots style mentality. Their management and coaches treated their players like meat in Foxboro. They were nasty to the press as well. I don't want to be like them. I don't want the Broncos to be modeled after that franchise.

New England won games, but they have no class. It all started at the top with Robert Kraft, a slimeball owner. It's nice to see Joe Ellis is filling his role quite nicely here.

Sounds to me like your big problem is things didn't stay the same. Change is hard for some people to accept, they'll try to tear down the newcomers rather than give them a chance to succeed. Sound like you?

s0phr0syne
06-23-2009, 08:29 AM
OK....Diabetes can most definitely be a degenerative condition.....the thing that Jay has going for him is that he has professionals around the clock looking after him, invested in how he feels every day

For a normal person it most definitely becomes degenerative because it takes mroe and more time to take care of it....it also has violent swings where all of a sudden you need to eat/snack or rest....that WOULD effect a player if there wasnt a training staff there at all times during practice and whatnot


Yeah, that's where the "well-managed" caveat comes into play, which clearly he was going to be by the Broncos staff, and will be by the Bears staff. You don't invest that much money into a player and then not diligently follow his sugar levels and the concordant insulin levels that they require.

I don't have diabetes, so I can't say from firsthand experience, but how does DM type I "take more and more time to take care of it"? Everything I've studied about it indicates to me that it should be a relatively constant condition insofar as the patient is diligently monitoring their sugar levels etc. It will never be as good as a real, fully functioning pancreas, but with the newer technologies for monitoring blood sugar and then calculating and administering the right amount of insulin, there should (from a purely theoretical perspective, not practical/experiencial) be very little difference in a well-managed patient.

Please remember I'm only talking about type I here, not type II.

Meck77
06-23-2009, 08:48 AM
Care to post that video sophrosyne?

Cutler is very serious about his health. That is why he keeps getting shiat faced out in public. Like I said. I still think Cut is out of the league in less than 5 years.

outdoor_miner
06-23-2009, 08:59 AM
Spot on! Just b/c the "Cutler Haters" wish him ill-will doesn't make it so that it comes to fruition. Imagine the NERVE of any Bronco player not wanting to be a Bronco anymore.....the nerve of that player. Dont these Bronco players know once they sign a contract with Denver, they automatically become slaves and entertainment MONKIES for Romanistic Fans of the Denver Broncos. How dare any Bronco player want a trade out of Denver!!! WE OWN YOU.....DO AS YOUR TOLD!!

Ah - I see... So, you believe the opposite. In your mind, these players deserve our undying loyalty and affection, simply because they played a few seasons for the Broncos? Nevermind the fact that Cutler forced his way out of town (without even saying the manner in which he went about things). We as Broncos fans should ignore that he didn't want to play for Denver, and root for him to succeed anyway! Hoo-ray for all ex-Broncos! Yay for Travis Henry! Yay for Dale Carter! I will forever love you all!

McDaniels, Bowlen, and Orton don't get cart Blanche period! All 3 have got to produce and prove they are a winner to the FANS and let the chips fall where they may.

I agree completely. They don't get carte blanche. However, you and Dale are calling for their heads before they've ever even stepped on a field for a real game. You do not know how they will perform this year. They could suck wildly, or be a surprising success. You don't know. So, rooting for them to fail is just dumb, and also a little hypocritical.

s0phr0syne
06-23-2009, 09:10 AM
Care to post that video sophrosyne?

Cutler is very serious about his health. That is why he keeps getting shiat faced out in public. Like I said. I still think Cut is out of the league in less than 5 years.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/denver-broncos/09000d5d810e4d5c/Broncos-report

http://twitter.com/denverbroncos/status/2223596565


You referred to Cutler's "condition". Unless he's been diagnosed with alcoholism, I assumed you were referring to his well known DM-I. That in and of itself isn't going to lead to his downfall from a health perspective--however I do agree that if his reported drinking habits are true, they will ultimately contribute to poor health (unless, who knows if he's somehow monitoring his blood when he's out on the town and even then taking care of himself with insulin?).

TonyR
06-23-2009, 09:33 AM
...We as Broncos fans should ignore that he didn't want to play for Denver, and root for him to succeed anyway! Hoo-ray for all ex-Broncos!...

...However, you and Dale are calling for their heads before they've ever even stepped on a field for a real game. You do not know how they will perform this year. They could suck wildly, or be a surprising success. You don't know. So, rooting for them to fail is just dumb, and also a little hypocritical.

Amen. Well said. I'll never understand those who put so much effort into defending former players and tearing down the current coach and team. It is certainly fair to question and criticize, but ignorant to condemn before even giving the team a chance to prove it on the field.

BroncoBuff
06-23-2009, 09:33 AM
Practically 95% of this board were Cutler and Marshall fanboys last December and now both players are with Al Qaeda. WTF!!!
This part is a good post ... cold shot of reality right there.


He doesn't even know what being a Bronco is all about
This part is silly ... everybody has to start somewhere, and his offenses have been sick productive, even with a QB who hadn't started since HS. He knows how to be a coach, he'll learn the Broncos part as he goes.

TonyR
06-23-2009, 09:37 AM
This part is a good post ... cold shot of reality right there.


Good except that Cutler is now a former Bronco by choice. So from where I sit I'm more good with those trashing him over those trashing the current coach.

As for Marshall, many were critical of his legal issues long before this "trade me" stuff happened. I think he's open to criticism but I do think we should support the guy while he's still a Bronco. But like Cutler, it's open season if/when he becomes a former Bronco!

TonyR
06-23-2009, 09:38 AM
Is any discussion complete without Florio's take?

Cutler Wants To Reunite With Marshall?
Posted by Mike Florio on June 23, 2009, 10:51 a.m. EDT
After being traded from Denver to Chicago earlier this year, quarterback Jay Cutler reportedly lobbied the Bears to pursue receiver Plaxico Burress.

Cutler is now publicly pining (sort of) for another pass-catcher with whom he’s far more acquainted.

Cutler recently hinted while attending a youth football camp at William & Mary that he’d like to see the Bears makes a play for Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall.

“I played with Brandon for three years and I think he’s one of the best receivers in the NFL,” Cutler told the Daily Press (via the Chicago Tribune). “I think he can be one of the greatest ever to play. He’s big and fast, and can do everything you want him to do, on the field and in the meeting room.

“I don’t know what we’re going to do. That’s up to the guys upstairs. If we make a run at him, we make a run at him.”

Though the Bears would be a natural fit, given that: (1) they have Cutler; and (2) they don’t have much at receiver, the Broncos have indicated privately that they won’t be trading Marshall. And while the Broncos might not refuse an “offer they can’t refuse” (ergo the name), the Bears don’t have the draft picks to make it happen.

Instead, they’d have to likely include established veteran players, like Tommie Harris or Lance Briggs or Brian Urlacher.

So it’s unlikely to happen. But Cutler apparently wouldn’t complain if it did.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/06/23/cutler-wants-to-reunite-with-marshall/

Popps
06-23-2009, 09:41 AM
I hope McDaniels goes 1-15 this year.

Oh yea, you're the real measure of a Broncos fan.

Go on, tell us what it means to be a fan again? Go ahead, we're listening...

TheDave
06-23-2009, 09:45 AM
All it took was a minicamp for Cutler to realize just how pathetic the recieving talent is in his new home.

As the phrase goes... Careful what you wish for, you just might get it. ;D

vancejohnson82
06-23-2009, 09:47 AM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/denver-broncos/09000d5d810e4d5c/Broncos-report

http://twitter.com/denverbroncos/status/2223596565


You referred to Cutler's "condition". Unless he's been diagnosed with alcoholism, I assumed you were referring to his well known DM-I. That in and of itself isn't going to lead to his downfall from a health perspective--however I do agree that if his reported drinking habits are true, they will ultimately contribute to poor health (unless, who knows if he's somehow monitoring his blood when he's out on the town and even then taking care of himself with insulin?).

THe thing that is tough about diabetes is that as you get older it becomes more of a responsibility to monitor it.....you also have to manage everythign that goes into your body and know how you are goign to react....thats the part that is hard when first diagnosed

drinking is probably one of the hardest things to do when you have diabetes. The problem is all of the sugars and things that you put into your body when drinking....in order to have a Red Bull and Vodka my friend has to plan for it all day.....obviously, that is one of the hardest drinks to take (all of the sugar) but its just an example

i dont know all about the condition either, i just lived with someone who had it and i saw the everyday things that go into having it...i can't even imagine being a professional athlete with it...but then again, my friend said its an advantage to be an athlete because you have a team of people around you to help out and they are at your beckoning

i would be surprised to see him play past 32ish though

BroncoBuff
06-23-2009, 09:59 AM
Tommie Harris is so awesome ..... if Kenny McKinley is as advertised, that's a tempting proposition. B-Marsh for Harris and a 4th.

BroncoBuff
06-23-2009, 10:01 AM
Oh yea, you're the real measure of a Broncos fan.

Go on, tell us what it means to be a fan again? Go ahead, we're listening...

We can agree on that ... Blow, there's no room for that kinda crap if you're truly a Broncos fan. At some point you have to hope we win games, or else you're just not a Broncos fan anymore. Which is fine, but don't pretend you can have it both ways.

s0phr0syne
06-23-2009, 10:16 AM
Just to be the Devil's Advocate:

Why can't he have it both ways?

If he is truly convinced the McD is BAD for the Broncos, then it makes sense that he could be a "true fan" and still cheer for the Broncos to lose so that McD gets fired and the Broncos can return to glory.

I mean, I'm not sure how one can logically arrive at the conclusion that McD will not succeed, but given that Blow has already decided that that will be his opinion, he can have it both ways in terms of rooting for McD to get fired so that his "beloved Broncos" return to the SB quicker than if McD were to toil around in a few years of mediocrity.

The point of the message board to debate people's opinions. So attack his belief that McD will be a failure, but there's no point in questioning whether he's a "real fan" or not--he wouldn't be on here if he wasn't.

TonyR
06-23-2009, 10:30 AM
The point of the message board to debate people's opinions. So attack his belief that McD will be a failure, but there's no point in questioning whether he's a "real fan" or not--he wouldn't be on here if he wasn't.

I completely understand where you're coming from. But anybody who says "I don't have a problem with losing" loses a lot of credibility with me. Being okay with losing is just so diametrically opposed to what sports is all about. Handling losses is one thing, accepting them is another.

BroncoBuff
06-23-2009, 10:36 AM
Just to be the Devil's Advocate:

Why can't he have it both ways?

If he is truly convinced the McD is BAD for the Broncos, then it makes sense that he could be a "true fan" and still cheer for the Broncos to lose so that McD gets fired and the Broncos can return to glory.

Good point ... but let me give you perhaps the perfect analogy: Rush Limbaugh saying he hopes President Obama fails.

This is the same thing ... if you love America, you want whomever your president is to do well. And if you love the Broncos, you want whomever the head coach is to do well.

You might not like Obama, you might not like McD ... but hoping they fail elevates your personal dislike/grudge to a level that is inconsistent with your core values.

BroncoMan4ever
06-23-2009, 02:20 PM
Just to be the Devil's Advocate:

Why can't he have it both ways?

If he is truly convinced the McD is BAD for the Broncos, then it makes sense that he could be a "true fan" and still cheer for the Broncos to lose so that McD gets fired and the Broncos can return to glory.

I mean, I'm not sure how one can logically arrive at the conclusion that McD will not succeed, but given that Blow has already decided that that will be his opinion, he can have it both ways in terms of rooting for McD to get fired so that his "beloved Broncos" return to the SB quicker than if McD were to toil around in a few years of mediocrity.

The point of the message board to debate people's opinions. So attack his belief that McD will be a failure, but there's no point in questioning whether he's a "real fan" or not--he wouldn't be on here if he wasn't.

now i disagree. i have no problem with a fan saying he believes the team is going to have a bad year and more than likely be terrible, while every week hoping the team wins. no real fan ever hopes the team will be terrible so that a coach they personally dislike before he has been apart of a real game ever will be fired. every true fan hopes the team will win, even if in the back of their mind, they know the team will suck

i don't really care for McDaniels, but as long as he coaches in Denver i want him to be seen as the most successful coach in the league.

too many people also throw around the thought that only a real fan would be posting here, and that is crap, we have so many trolls around here, who either hate the Broncos, know nothing about the broncos or are just here to run their mouths and piss people off.

rastaman
06-23-2009, 03:56 PM
What team? The DENVER BRONCOS.

people relate to the team because they are fans of the team. I fell in love with the Broncos when Elway was the QB, and TD was toting the rock, Shannon Sharpe was talking **** and kicking ass on the field, Atwater was blowing dudes up. the point i am making, in the NFL players come and go, but the team is always there, ready to supply a new batch of players to love, and relate to.

and i for one, will happily watch as McDaniels fixes the mess Shanahan left behind and watch as young unknowns become the new foundation of the team and become the players we all love.

Shanny's MESS! Give me an unforgiving BREAK! Why Don't-Ya!!!! Its more like the MESS McD and Bowlen created.

What you fail to stubbornly realize is that Denver's season went into to the tank b/c the Broncos had SEVEN RB's who suffered season ending injuries!!! These season ending injuries to the RB corp cost the Broncos at least 5-4 wins alone. Out of the 7 injured RB not one of them rushed for over 500 yards in 2008!!!!

Remember, a consistent robust running attack hides a weak defense, wears down opposing defenses, keep high scoring offenses off the field, allows you to take time off the clock and to protect leads especially in the 4th Qtr! Sure Cutler took chances and threw ill-advised passes.....but it wasn't like he had a consistent RB or RBBC to depend upon all season.

Teams knew Denver had no consistent threating Running Attack to speak of....so what did teams do? Opposing teams simply concentrated and cheated against the PASS! Hence you don't win in December w/o a consistent Running Attack!

Also, look at the horrific field position an already weak Defense had to defend against b/c of the countless 3 downs and PUNTs due to the Offense did not have a Running Attack to convert 3rd and SHORT!!!!

Denver had to rely on the horrific inconsistent incubator talents of the likes of "Tatum Bell" and Selvin Young down the stretch!!! That's one major reason Denver failed to win the AFC west and make the playoffs! Once Hillis went down with a "SEASON ENDING INJURY", that sealed the fate of the Denver Broncos season and sealed the fate of Shanahan.

No way does "Bowlen" FIRE Shanny had the Broncos won the AFC west, won 10 or more games and make the playoffs.......7 RB's enduring season ending injuries is the reason Shanny was fired.

Now, lets move on too McDaniels. The egotistical Prima Donna McD is a 33 year old unproven ROOKIE Head coach! Historically, rookie HC's in their 30's do not win in the NFL!! Thirty-something year old HC in the NFL, use their first coaching opportunity as a lessons learned.....and simply get fired after 2 or 4 seasons. Seasoned coaches win in the NFL in their middle 40's and beyond. There are aberrations out there like Gruden and Tomlinson who won in their 30's but its not the norm.

In fact, Gruden won the SB with Tony Dungy's players, and Tomlin wins the SB, b/c he was hired not screw the system up that was already in place! Lets just say Tomlin was a "Turn Key" HC who walked into a situation whereas everything was already in place ready to go. The Rooney's would not have stood idly by had Tomlin come in and tried to trade Rothlesberger. McD had a chance to win in 09 had he left Shanahans offensive players in place at least for his first year and gradually incorporate his own system and coaches.

McDaniels may have come from Belichecks system and won as an OC .......but thats it. In Denver, he won't have Belilcheck holding his hand and looking over his shoulder. McD is the product of a Belicheck coaching stable, of which thus far, none of the Belicheck coaching disciples of Weiss, Mangini, and Crennel have proven they can win yet! Why suddenly is McDaniels supposed to be any different.

McDaniels will be measured against Shanahan..........the greatest HC in the Broncos 50 year history. I'll predict we already know McD can't match what Shanahan accomplished from 95-98. McD will be lucky to match what Shanny accomplished in his first four years in 6 years! Hell we don't even know whether McD can duplicate Shanny's coaching record from 2005-2008!

rastaman
06-23-2009, 04:15 PM
All it took was a minicamp for Cutler to realize just how pathetic the recieving talent is in his new home.

As the phrase goes... Careful what you wish for, you just might get it. ;D

Cutler will be fine, especially once Shanahan gets there in in 2010....with Marshall soon to follow! :sunshine:

rastaman
06-23-2009, 04:19 PM
Is any discussion complete without Florio's take?

Cutler Wants To Reunite With Marshall?
Posted by Mike Florio on June 23, 2009, 10:51 a.m. EDT
After being traded from Denver to Chicago earlier this year, quarterback Jay Cutler reportedly lobbied the Bears to pursue receiver Plaxico Burress.

Cutler is now publicly pining (sort of) for another pass-catcher with whom he’s far more acquainted.

Cutler recently hinted while attending a youth football camp at William & Mary that he’d like to see the Bears makes a play for Broncos receiver Brandon Marshall.

“I played with Brandon for three years and I think he’s one of the best receivers in the NFL,” Cutler told the Daily Press (via the Chicago Tribune). “I think he can be one of the greatest ever to play. He’s big and fast, and can do everything you want him to do, on the field and in the meeting room.

“I don’t know what we’re going to do. That’s up to the guys upstairs. If we make a run at him, we make a run at him.”

Though the Bears would be a natural fit, given that: (1) they have Cutler; and (2) they don’t have much at receiver, the Broncos have indicated privately that they won’t be trading Marshall. And while the Broncos might not refuse an “offer they can’t refuse” (ergo the name), the Bears don’t have the draft picks to make it happen.

Instead, they’d have to likely include established veteran players, like Tommie Harris or Lance Briggs or Brian Urlacher.

So it’s unlikely to happen. But Cutler apparently wouldn’t complain if it did.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/06/23/cutler-wants-to-reunite-with-marshall/

Cutler knows btwn 2010 and 2011, Marshall still has a chance to become a Chicago Bear. By 2011, McDaniels, the fans, and Bowlen will have tired of BMarsh demanding a trade every season while he's being forced to remain a Bronco. Good luck with that approach.

rastaman
06-23-2009, 04:25 PM
Care to post that video sophrosyne?

Cutler is very serious about his health. That is why he keeps getting shiat faced out in public. Like I said. I still think Cut is out of the league in less than 5 years.

Not only do you "say" he's out of the league......you're actually hoping as well. Such is your hate!

You do know Orton has had a drinking problem as well, and he used the crutch of getting married to stop drinking. Does say should Orton's marriage end in divorce that Orton will start back to drinking AGAIN???? or do Bronco fans really care b/c deep down they know Orton is not a franchise QB and not in the long term plans of the McDaniels Juggernut. LOL

outdoor_miner
06-23-2009, 04:44 PM
Cutler will be fine, especially once Shanahan gets there in in 2010....with Marshall soon to follow! :sunshine:

Seriously - you are clearly a bigger fan of those 3 human beings than of the Denver Broncos. I mean - I guess that's fine. Whatever sports-related fun you have is cool by me. Although, your "hero worship" of those 3 is difficult for me to relate to. I mean - they are just 3 guys... All of whom have some serious character flaws (not that we all don't). Besides Shanahan, who gave us Denver fans with many years of enjoyment and loyalty, what have they done to stir up such fandom on your part? Or do you just like playing devil's advocate?

Regardless - it is quite obvious that your wet dream is for Cutler, Shanahan, and Marshall to be reunited in Chicago and win a Super Bowl... I think you're probably going to be disappointed. But time will tell...

BroncoMan4ever
06-23-2009, 06:39 PM
Shanny's MESS! Give me an unforgiving BREAK! Why Don't-Ya!!!! Its more like the MESS McD and Bowlen created.

HELL YES SHANNY'S MESS! Bowlen is slightly to blame for the mockery this team has become the last decade by not intervening sooner on what Mike was doing. Shanahan's inability to change with the times, or to field a decent defense because he had to continually chase off every DC we had, and replace that guy with someone worse and force our players to need to learn a new system or how to play with a group of new starters every season, or to have that giant inflated ego telling him he doesn't need to get a good RB because our system will make a scrub an elite RB, led to us having garbage running the ball since Portis was traded, and not treating Jay like a man, and allowing him to be the spoiled child who moped on the field and bitched like a little girl with a skinned knee about stuff not going his way, led to him not being able to handle a coach who isn't here to be his best friend, but rather to make him better, which led to him crying his way out of Denver.

the mess McD created, give me a break. outside of Cutler being a BITCH this team is improved in every possible way over last season. and don't even try to blame Marshall's situation on McD, players every year hold out or ask for more money. outside of 2 incidents, which are not his fault, he has improved this team more than Mike had the last 3 years.

What you fail to stubbornly realize is that Denver's season went into to the tank b/c the Broncos had SEVEN RB's who suffered season ending injuries!!! These season ending injuries to the RB corp cost the Broncos at least 5-4 wins alone. Out of the 7 injured RB not one of them rushed for over 500 yards in 2008!!!!

you know what about the 7 RBs on IR. outside of Hillis, not one of them was any better than the last one. which is why we came out throwing the ball, which is why we threw the ball all year aside from a brief few game stretch where Hillis was dominating. and the reason why our running game sucked all year long, right from the opening game of the season is that Mike was so arrogant in his belief that our system would make any scrub look incredible. so we put weak scrubs behind our line with Mike expecting them to have TD type of seasons, and we got burned because of that.



Remember, a consistent robust running attack hides a weak defense, wears down opposing defenses, keep high scoring offenses off the field, allows you to take time off the clock and to protect leads especially in the 4th Qtr! Sure Cutler took chances and threw ill-advised passes.....but it wasn't like he had a consistent RB or RBBC to depend upon all season.

Teams knew Denver had no consistent threating Running Attack to speak of....so what did teams do? Opposing teams simply concentrated and cheated against the PASS! Hence you don't win in December w/o a consistent Running Attack!

Also, look at the horrific field position an already weak Defense had to defend against b/c of the countless 3 downs and PUNTs due to the Offense did not have a Running Attack to convert 3rd and SHORT!!!!

Denver had to rely on the horrific inconsistent incubator talents of the likes of "Tatum Bell" and Selvin Young down the stretch!!! That's one major reason Denver failed to win the AFC west and make the playoffs! Once Hillis went down with a "SEASON ENDING INJURY", that sealed the fate of the Denver Broncos season and sealed the fate of Shanahan.

No way does "Bowlen" FIRE Shanny had the Broncos won the AFC west, won 10 or more games and make the playoffs.......7 RB's enduring season ending injuries is the reason Shanny was fired.

so where in any of this problem which was created by Mike never bringing in a good RB is a mess created by either Bowlen or McD. and no **** about a good running game hiding the deficiencies of a bad defense. the point you are trying to make is bull**** based on the fact that our running game sucked the 1st week of the season when our 1st string back was still around. you are trying to say that had none of our RBs been sent to IR we would have been better. but what you don't see is that of the 7 who went to IR, only 1 had any talent, and that wasn't discovered until the 2nd half of the season. your point would make more sense if early in the season, we had a dominant running game and because of that our defense looked decent, but that wasn't the case, our running game sucked opening the season with our top RBs still available and our defense sucked with our top RBs, just like it sucked when we were through our 7th RB.
also, when your team year in and year out fields a defense a high school JV football team could drop 35 on, and year in and year out you do nothing about it, but sign overrated FA, or bad draft picks, and fire bad DC only to replace them with worse DC, time has come to let you go.


Now, lets move on too McDaniels. The egotistical Prima Donna McD is a 33 year old unproven ROOKIE Head coach! Historically, rookie HC's in their 30's do not win in the NFL!! Thirty-something year old HC in the NFL, use their first coaching opportunity as a lessons learned.....and simply get fired after 2 or 4 seasons. Seasoned coaches win in the NFL in their middle 40's and beyond. There are aberrations out there like Gruden and Tomlinson who won in their 30's but its not the norm.

In fact, Gruden won the SB with Tony Dungy's players, and Tomlin wins the SB, b/c he was hired not screw the system up that was already in place! Lets just say Tomlin was a "Turn Key" HC who walked into a situation whereas everything was already in place ready to go. The Rooney's would not have stood idly by had Tomlin come in and tried to trade Rothlesberger. McD had a chance to win in 09 had he left Shanahans offensive players in place at least for his first year and gradually incorporate his own system and coaches.

so let me get this straight, you are rabidly against McDaniels because he is only 33. that is the dumbest **** i read on here, all the time. had he left Mike's players in place, outside of Cutler bitching and moaning his way out of Denver, our offense is exactly the same, except for the fact, our new HC did what Mike never seemed to get around to and address the ****ing running game. also, as has been reported numerous times, McD didn't come in and say i want Jay gone. he got a phone call and gave a moments thought about possibly acquiring the QB he built up from nothing. teams that called us about Jay have admitted that much. only Jay having been coddled by Mike and Bates couldn't handle the fact that the NFL is a business, and had to cry like a bitch with a skinned knee about how nobody wants him here and he gave the silent treatment and pounted like a child until he got his way and was traded.
and for all the talk you have about how McD should have left our old offensive staff and players alone, you forget the fact, that group only led us to 16th in points scored.

McDaniels may have come from Belichecks system and won as an OC .......but thats it. In Denver, he won't have Belilcheck holding his hand and looking over his shoulder. McD is the product of a Belicheck coaching stable, of which thus far, none of the Belicheck coaching disciples of Weiss, Mangini, and Crennel have proven they can win yet! Why suddenly is McDaniels supposed to be any different.

McDaniels will be measured against Shanahan..........the greatest HC in the Broncos 50 year history. I'll predict we already know McD can't match what Shanahan accomplished from 95-98. McD will be lucky to match what Shanny accomplished in his first four years in 6 years! Hell we don't even know whether McD can duplicate Shanny's coaching record from 2005-2008!

you know it can be said that Mike won his super bowls in Denver with Reeves and Wade's players. every coach in the league is doing their job with players left behind by the previous staff.

and you talk about what Mike accomplished a decade ago, what has he done for the team lately except lead them to a 24-24 record last 3 years? you bring up we don't know what McD will accomplish in the next few years, we don't know what mike would have accomplished in the next 3 years, but judging on his wanting to keep Slowik, and Jay still being a bitch, we would have gone 8-8 again and been a middle of the pack team.

at least with McD, there is something new and fresh going on with the team. it is being rebuilt again, with a full staff of really good coaches, and high character guys who want to be here and will give 100% every single play, we haven't been able to say that about Mike's teams in a long time.

rastaman
06-23-2009, 06:58 PM
Seriously - you are clearly a bigger fan of those 3 human beings than of the Denver Broncos. I mean - I guess that's fine. Whatever sports-related fun you have is cool by me. Although, your "hero worship" of those 3 is difficult for me to relate to. I mean - they are just 3 guys... All of whom have some serious character flaws (not that we all don't). Besides Shanahan, who gave us Denver fans with many years of enjoyment and loyalty, what have they done to stir up such fandom on your part? Or do you just like playing devil's advocate?

Regardless - it is quite obvious that your wet dream is for Cutler, Shanahan, and Marshall to be reunited in Chicago and win a Super Bowl... I think you're probably going to be disappointed. But time will tell...

I think you're going to be disappointed b/c McD will not lead Denver to a SB as well. Unless you can read into your crystal ball and tell me exactly how or why, besides just going on hope and blind faith.

Why you feel Shanny has character flaws is beyond me. Shanny is probably the last Bronco HC to lead this team SB victories in Bowlen's lifetime. Both Cutler and Bmarsh had no character flaws on the field. Can't give McD a free pass when it comes to character flaws as well. Those flaws will come out even btwn Aug-Dec 09.

outdoor_miner
06-23-2009, 07:59 PM
I think you're going to be disappointed b/c McD will not lead Denver to a SB as well. Unless you can read into your crystal ball and tell me exactly how or why, besides just going on hope and blind faith.

Geez - at this point all we have is hope because the Broncos haven't played a single game under Josh McDaniels. I have no idea if he will ultimately be successful or fail. However, I'm willing to give him a chance. I like his focus on building a team. I like how successful New England's offense was under his guidance. I like his choices of Assistant Coaches. I like that he retained Dennison and Turner. I like that he is bringing in high character "leaders". We'll see... Ultimately, he will be judged based upon the upcoming seasons.

Why you feel Shanny has character flaws is beyond me. Shanny is probably the last Bronco HC to lead this team SB victories in Bowlen's lifetime. Both Cutler and Bmarsh had no character flaws on the field. Can't give McD a free pass when it comes to character flaws as well. Those flaws will come out even btwn Aug-Dec 09.

When I'm talking about "character flaws", I'm not talking about what players/coaches do on the field (although, they often come out there)... I'm talking about the people I respect as human beings, and how they ultimately conduct themselves in life. I'm not going to get into this, because it's boring, and is really irrelevant. However, if I'm going to be a fan of someone who is not a Denver Bronco, I need to really respect what he does as a man.

I can understand you rooting for Shanahan (although, I don't understanding rooting for his success at the expense of the Broncos). I don't share your opinion enough to actively root for the guy, but that's cool. He did a lot for Denver while he was here. Cutler and Marshall - eh. They are talented guys on the football field and that's it. There are many other guys just like them scattered throughout the league.

I haven't seen enough of McDaniels to know what I think of him as a guy. However, he is the coach of the Denver Broncos, so I'm going to root for him to succeed.

Br0nc0Buster
06-23-2009, 08:23 PM
I think you're going to be disappointed b/c McD will not lead Denver to a SB as well. Unless you can read into your crystal ball and tell me exactly how or why, besides just going on hope and blind faith.

Why you feel Shanny has character flaws is beyond me. Shanny is probably the last Bronco HC to lead this team SB victories in Bowlen's lifetime. Both Cutler and Bmarsh had no character flaws on the field. Can't give McD a free pass when it comes to character flaws as well. Those flaws will come out even btwn Aug-Dec 09.

This doesnt even make sense
Character flaws "on the field"......lol what?
Leonard Little didnt have any character flaws "on the field" either

Br0nc0Buster
06-23-2009, 08:26 PM
I think you're going to be disappointed b/c McD will not lead Denver to a SB as well. Unless you can read into your crystal ball and tell me exactly how or why, besides just going on hope and blind faith.



Ok so you *know* he is never lead us to a superbowl, but anyone who disagrees is doing so on the basis of "faith"?

You cant even put together a coherent argument together, this must be some kind of ironic joke I am not getting

rastaman
06-23-2009, 08:39 PM
HELL YES SHANNY'S MESS! Bowlen is slightly to blame for the mockery this team has become the last decade by not intervening sooner on what Mike was doing. Shanahan's inability to change with the times, or to field a decent defense because he had to continually chase off every DC we had, and replace that guy with someone worse and force our players to need to learn a new system or how to play with a group of new starters every season, or to have that giant inflated ego telling him he doesn't need to get a good RB because our system will make a scrub an elite RB, led to us having garbage running the ball since Portis was traded, and not treating Jay like a man, and allowing him to be the spoiled child who moped on the field and b****ed like a little girl with a skinned knee about stuff not going his way, led to him not being able to handle a coach who isn't here to be his best friend, but rather to make him better, which led to him crying his way out of Denver.

Ive got to disagree with you. You can't say just b/c 7 RB's suffered season ending injuries that they were scrubs. Those were simply freak injuries especially with Torrain and Hillis. Are you going to call Knowshon a scrub if he suffers a season ending injury this season? As far as the relationship btwn Cutler and Shanny, I thought it was great relationship. Shanny final had his franchise Qb since Elway had retired. Prior to that, Shanny just had several Kyle Orton type QB's. I do agree though that Shanny struck out when it came to defense coordinators.


the mess McD created, give me a break. outside of Cutler being a b**** this team is improved in every possible way over last season. and don't even try to blame Marshall's situation on McD, players every year hold out or ask for more money. outside of 2 incidents, which are not his fault, he has improved this team more than Mike had the last 3 years.

As far as what went on btwn Cutler, Bowlen and McDaniel's we will never know the full story of what went on. It's Cutler's word against McDaniels and Bowlens. You and I could both be wrong. What's going on btwn Marshall and McD is there business at this stage. Its not etched in stone that Marshall will be a career Bronco anyway. Theres nothing McD or Bowlen can do to force Marshall to be a Bronco for his entire career. Making a player stay a Bronco by virture of their contract only feds more animosity. It guarantees nothing.

you know what about the 7 RBs on IR. outside of Hillis, not one of them was any better than the last one. which is why we came out throwing the ball, which is why we threw the ball all year aside from a brief few game stretch where Hillis was dominating. and the reason why our running game sucked all year long, right from the opening game of the season is that Mike was so arrogant in his belief that our system would make any scrub look incredible. so we put weak scrubs behind our line with Mike expecting them to have TD type of seasons, and we got burned because of that.

so where in any of this problem which was created by Mike never bringing in a good RB is a mess created by either Bowlen or McD. and no **** about a good running game hiding the deficiencies of a bad defense. the point you are trying to make is bull**** based on the fact that our running game sucked the 1st week of the season when our 1st string back was still around. you are trying to say that had none of our RBs been sent to IR we would have been better. but what you don't see is that of the 7 who went to IR, only 1 had any talent, and that wasn't discovered until the 2nd half of the season. your point would make more sense if early in the season, we had a dominant running game and because of that our defense looked decent, but that wasn't the case, our running game sucked opening the season with our top RBs still available and our defense sucked with our top RBs, just like it sucked when we were through our 7th RB.
also, when your team year in and year out fields a defense a high school JV football team could drop 35 on, and year in and year out you do nothing about it, but sign overrated FA, or bad draft picks, and fire bad DC only to replace them with worse DC, time has come to let you go.

Once again, Pittman was not a scrub he was 33 years of age, ran with power on 3rd down and short yardage and would have been a perfect RBBC, he just got injured. I believe Torrain was not a scurb he just suffered a season ending knee injury. PJ Pope was off to a great start averaging 7.6 yds per carry and suffered a seaon ending injury. Then of course Hillis was injured as well. These guys were not SCRUBS they just had bad luck.


so let me get this straight, you are rabidly against McDaniels because he is only 33. that is the dumbest **** i read on here, all the time. had he left Mike's players in place, outside of Cutler b****ing and moaning his way out of Denver, our offense is exactly the same, except for the fact, our new HC did what Mike never seemed to get around to and address the ****ing running game. also, as has been reported numerous times, McD didn't come in and say i want Jay gone. he got a phone call and gave a moments thought about possibly acquiring the QB he built up from nothing. teams that called us about Jay have admitted that much. only Jay having been coddled by Mike and Bates couldn't handle the fact that the NFL is a business, and had to cry like a b**** with a skinned knee about how nobody wants him here and he gave the silent treatment and pounted like a child until he got his way and was traded.
and for all the talk you have about how McD should have left our old offensive staff and players alone, you forget the fact, that group only led us to 16th in points scored.

Please show me historically where coaches in the 30's win in the NFL! There is not a long track record period. Remember both Tomlin and Gruden were abberations. McDaniels comes from the Belicheck family tree of coaches, and so far the Belicheck asst coches who become HC's have yet to prove they win as HC's. So why should McD be any different??? McD could be the same as Weiss, Mangini or Crennel

you know it can be said that Mike won his super bowls in Denver with Reeves and Wade's players. every coach in the league is doing their job with players left behind by the previous staff.

and you talk about what Mike accomplished a decade ago, what has he done for the team lately except lead them to a 24-24 record last 3 years? you bring up we don't know what McD will accomplish in the next few years, we don't know what mike would have accomplished in the next 3 years, but judging on his wanting to keep Slowik, and Jay still being a b****, we would have gone 8-8 again and been a middle of the pack team.

Wade Phillips had gotten rid of the players left over from the Reeves era and Shanny got rid of the players from the Wade era. Btwn 95 thru 97, Shanny completely rebuilt the Broncos via FA and the draft. I'm really! name the players that were on the 97 and 98 SB teams that were hold overs from Reeves and Wade era!

at least with McD, there is something new and fresh going on with the team. it is being rebuilt again, with a full staff of really good coaches, and high character guys who want to be here and will give 100% every single play, we haven't been able to say that about Mike's teams in a long time.

New and fresh doesn't equate to WINS. Hell Belicheck didn't win his SB's with a QB with the talent of Orton! McDaniels maybe in a Rebuilding period, however, that isn't to say that Shanny was in a rebuilding period. Point is, how many excuses will be made for McD? Can McD even match Shanny first 4 years as HC in Denver in 6 years let alone 4 years. Perhaps Knowshon will replicate what TD accomplished during his first 4 years and maybe not.

rastaman
06-23-2009, 08:45 PM
Ok so you *know* he is never lead us to a superbowl, but anyone who disagrees is doing so on the basis of "faith"?

You cant even put together a coherent argument together, this must be some kind of ironic joke I am not getting

We don't know what McD will bring to this team.....he's an unproven 30 something HC, who comes from the Belicheck coaching tree who has yet to prove they can win in the NFL. Until McD proves otherwise, he's another Manginni, and another Crennel. Lets not make excuses for McD before he even coaches his first season in the NFL. Remember, McD will be judged on his 4 or 6 years (if he last that long) on what Shanny accomplised during his first 4 years......plain in simple; unless the McD applogist want to lower the bar of expectation and let the excuses come flowing in.

Br0nc0Buster
06-23-2009, 08:59 PM
We don't know what McD will bring to this team.....he's an unproven 30 something HC, who comes from the Belicheck coaching tree who has yet to prove they can win in the NFL. Until McD proves otherwise, he's another Manginni, and another Crennel. Lets not make excuses for McD before he even coaches his first season in the NFL. Remember, McD will be judged on his 4 or 6 years (if he last that long) on what Shanny accomplised during his first 4 years......plain in simple; unless the McD applogist want to lower the bar of expectation and let the excuses come flowing in.

no he is not another Crennel or Mangini(even though Mangini isnt really that bad) until proven otherwise.
He is a ?, the failures of his predecessors shouldnt really be thrown onto him.

and why does he have to be compared to Shanahan?
we didnt fire the 98 Shanny, we fired the guy who couldnt fix a defense to save his life, and who thought Bob Slowick was a good choice for defensive coordinator.

We won 1 playoff game in the past 10 years, stop living in the 90s, it wasnt working out

BroncoMan4ever
06-23-2009, 10:25 PM
Ive got to disagree with you. You can't say just b/c 7 RB's suffered season ending injuries that they were scrubs. Those were simply freak injuries especially with Torrain and Hillis. Are you going to call Knowshon a scrub if he suffers a season ending injury this season? As far as the relationship btwn Cutler and Shanny, I thought it was great relationship. Shanny final had his franchise Qb since Elway had retired. Prior to that, Shanny just had several Kyle Orton type QB's. I do agree though that Shanny struck out when it came to defense coordinators.

So if you were in charge of an NFL team and beginning a season would you think to start a team with Young, Hall, Pittman, Torain, Pope, or Bell as your starting RB? there is a reason why none of these guys has gotten a job since we let them go. THEY ARE SCRUBS!

the relationship with Cutler and Shanahan was a friendship, it wasn't a coach and player relationship. Shanahan was never busting Jay's balls for stupid mistakes or pushing him to get better. He found his QB and basically decided he was done, nothing else but experience needed to be done with Jay, and because of that, is why Jay is immature and a crybaby. Look at Washington where Campbell's coaches ride his ass, and have worked to help him improve every year, he heard trade rumors, and let that **** slide off his back and got his ass back to work. he didn't cry and b**** his way into a trade like Jay, he acted like a man who understands it is business, Jay acted like a little girl.

and you know what, with our Griese and Plummer led teams, we were better, than the Cutler led teams, because Shanahan was actually doing some coaching. He was working to make the team better around less talented QBs, rather than under Jay hope his talent could make the rest of the team better. he got his franchise QB and basically started to coast. After 2005, he declined as a coach, and became just another coach in the league, he was no longer the mastermind.


Once again, Pittman was not a scrub he was 33 years of age, ran with power on 3rd down and short yardage and would have been a perfect RBBC, he just got injured. I believe Torrain was not a scurb he just suffered a season ending knee injury. PJ Pope was off to a great start averaging 7.6 yds per carry and suffered a seaon ending injury. Then of course Hillis was injured as well. These guys were not SCRUBS they just had bad luck.

Pittman was at best a role player, he isn't a starter, hasn't been in a long time. just because he ran hard on 5 carries a game, doesn't mean he was anything great. and in your RBBC argument, we didn't have a complimentary back to his power.

Torain, is nothing more than hype wrapped in a porcelain body.

Pope, was nothing special, the inflated YPC crap that you bring up is just that...crap. it is easy to break off 5 yards per carry when the defense has no respect for the run and is only playing the pass.

hell if we go by the yards per touch stat, then Lelie is one of the best receivers of the last decade.


Please show me historically where coaches in the 30's win in the NFL! There is not a long track record period. Remember both Tomlin and Gruden were abberations. McDaniels comes from the Belicheck family tree of coaches, and so far the Belicheck asst coches who become HC's have yet to prove they win as HC's. So why should McD be any different McD could be the same as Weiss, Mangini or Crennel


OK, your argument about how Gruden won with Dungy's players, and Tomlin with Cowher's players is bull****. look at the Chargers. 15-1 and kicking ass with Schottenheimer, but a coaching change to Turner, while returning almost every player and assistant coach from Marty's tenure and the team went to ****. point is, regardless of the players or how the team has those players on the roster, a coach needs to know how to use them, and both Tomlin and Gruden knew how to use the players on their roster, and because of that won a super bowl


New and fresh doesn't equate to WINS. Hell Belicheck didn't win his SB's with a QB with the talent of Orton! McDaniels maybe in a Rebuilding period, however, that isn't to say that Shanny was in a rebuilding period. Point is, how many excuses will be made for McD? Can McD even match Shanny first 4 years as HC in Denver in 6 years let alone 4 years. Perhaps Knowshon will replicate what TD accomplished during his first 4 years and maybe not.

new and fresh does not equal wins i give you that. but old and familiar wasn't equaling wins either. honestly think about the Pats last season. 11-5 with a QB who hadn't started a game since high school. to me that shows that a QB with marginal skills can win in NE, which means Brady isn't as special as he is made out to be. Orton is better than Cassel.

Can McD match Mike's 1st 4 years in Denver, give me a break. name me 3 coaches in the last 25 years who had a 1st 4 seasons like Mike did. it has nothing to do with age, Mike's 1st 4 years were unreal and almost unrivaled on a historic level, no one is arguing that. it is the last decade with 1 playoff win, and the last 3 years with no playoff appearances, and defenses bad on a historic level that everyone is glad to be rid of.

and Shanahan from his 1st 4 years isn't the Shanahan we fired. the Shanahan we fired is the coach who allowed the defense to completely turn to ****. who refused to draft a good RB. and had lost some of the magic that made him special in his 1st 4 years.

rastaman
06-24-2009, 04:49 AM
So if you were in charge of an NFL team and beginning a season would you think to start a team with Young, Hall, Pittman, Torain, Pope, or Bell as your starting RB? there is a reason why none of these guys has gotten a job since we let them go. THEY ARE SCRUBS!

Ok, so had you been in Shanny's shoes going back to 06, 07, and 08, which non-scrub RB's would have signed thru FA or drafted during this period? You obviously seem to believe there were stellar can't miss dominating RB's that Shanny just missed on!.......who were they?

the relationship with Cutler and Shanahan was a friendship, it wasn't a coach and player relationship. Shanahan was never busting Jay's balls for stupid mistakes or pushing him to get better. He found his QB and basically decided he was done, nothing else but experience needed to be done with Jay, and because of that, is why Jay is immature and a crybaby. Look at Washington where Campbell's coaches ride his ass, and have worked to help him improve every year, he heard trade rumors, and let that **** slide off his back and got his ass back to work. he didn't cry and b**** his way into a trade like Jay, he acted like a man who understands it is business, Jay acted like a little girl.

Every coach in the NFL coach they're QB's differently. The methods used for coaching Campbell aren't really working per say. Hell even the Redskins were interested in trading for Cutler......so what does that tell you??? The coaching relationship worked great btwn Cutler and Shanny, so much so it sent Cutler to the Pro Bowl; thats good enough for me. Speaking of SCRUBS....McD sure brought in a scrub for QB with the journeyman-stop gap QB named Kyle Orton.

and you know what, with our Griese and Plummer led teams, we were better, than the Cutler led teams, because Shanahan was actually doing some coaching. He was working to make the team better around less talented QBs, rather than under Jay hope his talent could make the rest of the team better. he got his franchise QB and basically started to coast. After 2005, he declined as a coach, and became just another coach in the league, he was no longer the mastermind.

Looks like nothing has changed b/c Orton = Plummer and Griese. Hell Orton couldn't even beat out Greise for the starting job. Again, I'll stand behind it was the injuries to 7 running back that greatly influenced how Shanny was able to execute the offense. Any offensive mastermind would have had great difficulty executing their offensive schemes w/o a consistent running attack. You can't win in December w/o a rushing attack. Denver's RB's were dropping like flies with all the injuries.


Pittman was at best a role player, he isn't a starter, hasn't been in a long time. just because he ran hard on 5 carries a game, doesn't mean he was anything great. and in your RBBC argument, we didn't have a complimentary back to his power.

We had Hillis who had the same running power! But once again down the stretch in December, Peyton suffered a season ending injury. Can't make the playoffs nor win your division in December with just passing the ball.

Torain, is nothing more than hype wrapped in a porcelain body. Pope, was nothing special, the inflated YPC crap that you bring up is just that...crap. it is easy to break off 5 yards per carry when the defense has no respect for the run and is only playing the pass.

Again, you don't know what type of season Torain or Pope would have had b/c their injuries ended their season before it really started! So your comments is pure speculation.

hell if we go by the yards per touch stat, then Lelie is one of the best receivers of the last decade.




OK, your argument about how Gruden won with Dungy's players, and Tomlin with Cowher's players is bull****. look at the Chargers. 15-1 and kicking ass with Schottenheimer, but a coaching change to Turner, while returning almost every player and assistant coach from Marty's tenure and the team went to ****. point is, regardless of the players or how the team has those players on the roster, a coach needs to know how to use them, and both Tomlin and Gruden knew how to use the players on their roster, and because of that won a super bowl.

Gruden won the SB with Dungy's players......plain and simple. However, once those Dungy players started leaving or retiring. Gruden did not get it done in Tampa and he was fired! Tomlin is a turn-key Coach, not requiring to come in to do much at all! He didn't come into Pittsburgh and entertained offers for trading Rothlesburger like McD has done.


new and fresh does not equal wins i give you that. but old and familiar wasn't equaling wins either. honestly think about the Pats last season. 11-5 with a QB who hadn't started a game since high school. to me that shows that a QB with marginal skills can win in NE, which means Brady isn't as special as he is made out to be. Orton is better than Cassel.

Belicheck coached the NE to an 11-5 season more so than McD. But don't worry McD will get his chance to perform miracles in Denver over the next 2 or 3 years.

Can McD match Mike's 1st 4 years in Denver, give me a break. name me 3 coaches in the last 25 years who had a 1st 4 seasons like Mike did. it has nothing to do with age, Mike's 1st 4 years were unreal and almost unrivaled on a historic level, no one is arguing that. it is the last decade with 1 playoff win, and the last 3 years with no playoff appearances, and defenses bad on a historic level that everyone is glad to be rid of.

All of you McD appologist have already lowered the bar of expectation when it comes to Little Napolian McD. Do you want to go out on the limb and say McD will duplicate what Shanny did in his last four years in Denver? McD will flounder around the same way Manginni and Crennel have done....thats my prediction.

and Shanahan from his 1st 4 years isn't the Shanahan we fired. the Shanahan we fired is the coach who allowed the defense to completely turn to ****. who refused to draft a good RB. and had lost some of the magic that made him special in his 1st 4 years.

True. However, Shanny took over a Wade Phillips team that was going nowhere....did he not? who had either an 8-8 or 7-9 record as well. So actually McD is taking over a Bronco team who has the same amount of talent that Shanny took over in 95 had. The difference is, Shanny didn't try and trade Elway as McD tried to trade Cutler. Don't you think by Shanny keeping Elway sure had an impact w/ rebuilding the Broncos....of course it did. With McD loosing Cutler alone has ushered in a rebuiliding period in Denver.

BroncoMan4ever
06-24-2009, 11:24 AM
True. However, Shanny took over a Wade Phillips team that was going nowhere....did he not? who had either an 8-8 or 7-9 record as well. So actually McD is taking over a Bronco team who has the same amount of talent that Shanny took over in 95 had. The difference is, Shanny didn't try and trade Elway as McD tried to trade Cutler. Don't you think by Shanny keeping Elway sure had an impact w/ rebuilding the Broncos....of course it did. With McD loosing Cutler alone has ushered in a rebuiliding period in Denver.

there is a major difference between Elway and Cutler. by 95 Elway had already established himself not only as one of the best in the league, but one of the best all time, and that can't be traded. he was responsible for carrying 3 teams to super bowls on his back with no help. it was established that Denver was his town. He had become practically a god in this city. he was the heart and soul of this team, the undisputed leader.

Cutler to this point in his career, is nothing more than POTENTIAL. he has the potential to become a great QB in a few years. What has Cutler done, that makes him so special yet. People throw around the pro bowl a lot, but if that were based on actual performance, Rivers would have gone ahead of him. he has a losing record, and fans liked him because he was young a full of potential, he wasn't yet beloved like Elway was, because he truly hasn't accomplished anything yet. he hadn't separated himself from the rest of the team as the most important part of the team, he was just another guy in the locker room, he wasn't our undisputed team leader.