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Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 07:33 AM
That big, fat Bears number everybody in town is repeating right now is 48.

It shouldn’t be.

The number is 28.

That’s how many points Kyle Orton and your Chicago Bears are now averaging per game.

Nearly halfway into this season, the quarterback has transformed a notoriously no-O (or low-O) NFL franchise into a point-making machine.

So don’t go quoting the gospel of Muhsin Muhammad, the ex-Bear who called Chicago a place “where receivers go to die.”

Solicit the opinions of Orton’s current receivers instead.

“What can you say about Kyle?” tight end Greg Olsen asked after Sunday’s 48-41 victory over the Vikings. “He is turning into an elite passer in this league.”

Marty Ocho Seis—I mean Booker—pulled off a Halloween-orange No. 86 jersey and spoke glowingly about a long touchdown pass Orton threw him.

And about other plays by the Bears’ field general in general.

“I’m quite sure none of you guys, or any guys on the other side, thought Kyle would come in and play the way he’s played,” Booker said.

“He’s been unbelievable. Each week he’s throwing the ball all over the place. … Once you’ve got that confidence, you start to soar. He’s playing on a high, high level right now.”


The rest of the story here: http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/oct/20/sports/chi-20-downey-bears-chicagooct20

Rulon Velvet Jones
06-17-2009, 07:37 AM
Cue the douches that think an NFL-caliber QB can't throw more than 15 yards in 5...4...3...2...

SoDak Bronco
06-17-2009, 07:41 AM
:lombardi:

vancejohnson82
06-17-2009, 07:43 AM
please send this thread to the Butt...

what the hell were you thinking posting something positive....

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 07:44 AM
please send this thread to the Butt...

what the hell were you thinking posting something positive....

:spit:

Smiling Assassin27
06-17-2009, 07:52 AM
yeah, but he's no jay cutler...

he's not into entitlement, he won't slag his teammates in the press, and you bet your arse he'll return a call from coach and/or owner. nope, no jay cutler.

eta: and i'm pretty sure he won't grab his crotch while staring directly at the opposing team's sideline.

BroncoInSkinland
06-17-2009, 07:53 AM
Good article, thanks for the post. Nice to see some positive press on Orton. One line in the article caught my attention,


Chicago is the place where quarterbacks go to die, though —


I wonder if that will hold true for Cutler. I think he is going to have a good career, but Chicago does seem to have a bit of a curse...

dbfan21
06-17-2009, 07:54 AM
Considering all of the negative threads about the Marshall situation, I really enjoyed the article. Nice find! :thumbs:

Hopefully Orton develops the same level of confidence by the end of training camp/pre-season.

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 07:59 AM
This thread will be buried in a matter of hours because it's not negative. We wonder why the media/news is almost always focused on negatives?

BroncoInSkinland
06-17-2009, 08:01 AM
This thread will be buried in a matter of hours because it's not negative. We wonder why the media/news is almost always focused on negatives?

Well no offense to this article, or the POV on Orton, but there is a lot more negative press out there right now. This article is old, all the braking stories have to do with the FO which is a bit of a mess right now...

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 08:03 AM
Well no offense to this article, or the POV on Orton, but there is a lot more negative press out there right now. This article is old, all the braking stories have to do with the FO which is a bit of a mess right now...

Is the Front Office a mess or would Brandon Marshall have held out regardless? I say the latter. In my opinion if the front office stands behind the "See you in camp" stance then I think they are doing just fine. People here are acting as if this if the first time a wide receiver has held out wanting $$.

This article is old news but it's certainly new for Broncos fans as it gives us a look at what we may be seeing on the field next season.

ghwk
06-17-2009, 08:28 AM
yeah, but he's no jay cutler...

he's not into entitlement, he won't slag his teammates in the press, and you bet your arse he'll return a call from coach and/or owner. nope, no jay cutler.

eta: and i'm pretty sure he won't grab his crotch while staring directly at the opposing team's sideline.

Maybe he won't be owned by Rivers either.

BroncoBuff
06-17-2009, 08:29 AM
Of course the recievers are gonna say nice things about their QB, whomever he is ... especially in the afterglow of victory.

The point is, Lovie was all too eager to a) bench him, and b) trade him away.

BigPlayShay
06-17-2009, 08:32 AM
Of course the recievers are gonna say nice things about their QB, whomever he is ... especially in the afterglow of victory.

The point is, Lovie was all too eager to a) bench him, and b) trade him away.

Lovie also staunchly defended Grossman for the better part of 2 seasons, so I am not sure that much credence should be taken in his opinion.

BroncoInSkinland
06-17-2009, 08:35 AM
Is the Front Office a mess or would Brandon Marshall have held out regardless? I say the latter. In my opinion if the front office stands behind the "See you in camp" stance then I think they are doing just fine. People here are acting as if this if the first time a wide receiver has held out wanting $$.

This article is old news but it's certainly new for Broncos fans as it gives us a look at what we may be seeing on the field next season.

2nd part first, it certainly does, I hope that Orton continues to improve, and with McDaniels as HC I have quite a bit of faith that he will, that is one of McDaniels strong points. Thanks again for the article.

Marshall probably would have held out regardless, if Shanahan hadn't simply streamlined an improved contract before the holdout ever happened. That doesn't change the fact that from most outside points of view our FO has during a single off season

1. Fired a 2x SB winning HC

2. Traded for whatever reasona pro-bowl 25 year old QB

3. Fired offensive drafting gurus, and the GM, replacing the GM position with what many view as a figure head.

4. Drafted heavily on Offense and Defensive backfield when the d-line was the position need.

5. Traded away a first round pick that many think will be a very high pick to get a 2nd round CB in a weak draft class.

6. Are now embroiled in a holdout and trade situation with the biggest name recognition Ofensive player remaining on the roster.

To say the front office isn't in the spotlight is ridiculous, to say they aren't a mess disagrees with roughly %80 of the population according to the ESPN graph posted recently. The press is in the business of selling stories, and right now the story that sells is the Denver collapse. I really don't want to thread jack this positive article. I appreciate your posting it again. You asked why the press focuses on the negative, and I was giving you what I hoped would be an answer to the question.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-17-2009, 08:35 AM
Of course the recievers are gonna say nice things about their QB, whomever he is ... especially in the afterglow of victory.

The point is, Lovie was all too eager to a) bench him, and b) trade him away.

All to eager to bench him? Last year? He came back and played injured...i wouldnt say thats he was all too eager to bench him. If youre talking about after his rookie year, thats not all that fair. He was thrown to the wolves without even many reps in the preseason. And, believe it or not, PLAYERS IMPROVE!

SonOfLe-loLang
06-17-2009, 08:37 AM
2nd part first, it certainly does, I hope that Orton continues to improve, and with McDaniels as HC I have quite a bit of faitht hat he will, that is one of McDaniels strong points. Thanks again for the article.

Marshall probably would have held out regardless, if Shanahan hadn't simply streamlined an improved contract before the holdout ever happened. That doesn't change the fact that from most outside points of view our FO has during a single off season

1. Fired a 2x SB winning HC

2. Traded for whatever reasona pro-bowl 25 year old QB

3. Fired offensive drafting gurus, and the GM, replacing the GM position with what many view as a figure head.

4. Drafted heavily on Offense and Defensive backfield when the d-line was the position need.

5. Traded away a first round pick that many think will be a very high pick to get a 2nd round CB in a weak draft class.

6. Are now embroiled in a holdout and trade situation with the biggest name recognition Ofensive player remaining on the roster.

To say the front office isn't in the spotlight is ridiculous, to say they aren't a mess disagrees with roughly %80 of the population according to the ESPN graph posted recently. The press is in the business of selling stories, and right now the story that sells is the Denver collapse. I really don't want to thread jack this positive article. I appreciate your posting it again. You asked why the press focuses on the negative, and I was giving you what I hoped would be an answer to the question.


And this has to do with how orton played the first half of the season because...

BroncoInSkinland
06-17-2009, 09:00 AM
And this has to do with how orton played the first half of the season because...

It has absolutely nothing to do with it. I have already thanked the original poster twice for posting this, pointed out my thoughts on the Orton situation which are positive, indicated that I think McDaniels will do well with the Orton situation, and I even Repped the original poster for the article when I posted my first response. The original poster asked WHY the press was so negative here...

This thread will be buried in a matter of hours because it's not negative. We wonder why the media/news is almost always focused on negatives?

And I responded in attempt to KEEP this from becoming a negative article with a quick blow off post here...

Well no offense to this article, or the POV on Orton, but there is a lot more negative press out there right now. This article is old, all the braking stories have to do with the FO which is a bit of a mess right now...

Additionally I touched on Cutler FAILING in Chicago. What exactly do you want? You buy the plane ticket and I will go to Denver and thank Orton personally for a good season last year, wish him success this coming year, and tell Josh that I have faith in him to help put our new QB in the best position to win possible given the circumstances.

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 09:04 AM
2nd part first, it certainly does, I hope that Orton continues to improve, and with McDaniels as HC I have quite a bit of faith that he will, that is one of McDaniels strong points. Thanks again for the article.

Marshall probably would have held out regardless, if Shanahan hadn't simply streamlined an improved contract before the holdout ever happened. That doesn't change the fact that from most outside points of view our FO has during a single off season

1. Fired a 2x SB winning HC

2. Traded for whatever reasona pro-bowl 25 year old QB

3. Fired offensive drafting gurus, and the GM, replacing the GM position with what many view as a figure head.

4. Drafted heavily on Offense and Defensive backfield when the d-line was the position need.

5. Traded away a first round pick that many think will be a very high pick to get a 2nd round CB in a weak draft class.

6. Are now embroiled in a holdout and trade situation with the biggest name recognition Ofensive player remaining on the roster.

To say the front office isn't in the spotlight is ridiculous, to say they aren't a mess disagrees with roughly %80 of the population according to the ESPN graph posted recently. The press is in the business of selling stories, and right now the story that sells is the Denver collapse. I really don't want to thread jack this positive article. I appreciate your posting it again. You asked why the press focuses on the negative, and I was giving you what I hoped would be an answer to the question.

I agree that the media focuses on the negative. It also appears the Orangemane does as well, hence the reason I said this thread would get buried due to its positive nature. All one has to do is take a look at the front page to see what we "Orangemane" focus on.

All your points can be argued and I think they all stem from a change in regime. There were many who thought it was a good time for change. When a new regime comes in, things like changes in the scouting department, coaching staff, etc. will happen so it's all interrelated. I think a lot of people were hoping a new staff would come in and keep everything the same but that's not the norm. It's human nature to want to surround yourself with the pieces and parts you know and are comfortable with. McDaniels has learned a brand of coaching and management and he is sticking to what he knows. I'd be concerned if he just tossed it all out the window to be popular with the media and the fans.

As far as the holdout is concerned, it has nothing to do with the front office... it's on Marshall. You paint a far worse picture than I do. Trading away a first rounder next year for pick 37 this year is NOT a front office in turmoil. You don't agree with the pick but they targeted a player and got him. It's common knowledge that a future pick is equal to a round lower in the current year.

Finally, I did not say the front office is "not in the spotlight." I said that I believe the media/fan perception is not exactly on par with reality. If they stick to their guns and refuse to trade Marshall then I feel like they are doing what they should be doing. Marshall has no leverage in this situation.

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 09:41 AM
Struggled to beat out "wrecks" grossman...'nuff said.........

BroncoBuff
06-17-2009, 09:42 AM
Struggled to beat out "wrecks" grossman...'nuff said.........

I dunno .... the more I read about Orton, the more I think Lovie had some kind of odd personal beef/dislike of the kid. Orton definitely performed for him, with victories if not stats, and he was benched for his trouble.

I think this was a Lovie thing, not a Kyle thing.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-17-2009, 09:49 AM
Struggled to beat out "wrecks" grossman...'nuff said.........

Cutler couldnt beat out Plummer his rookie season? Your logic is bull****. Grossman was a first round pick and was given every opportunity to prove his worth. If you dont think PR plays a part in this, youre crazy

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 10:02 AM
Cutler couldnt beat out Plummer his rookie season? Your logic is bull****. Grossman was a first round pick and was given every opportunity to prove his worth. If you dont think PR plays a part in this, youre crazy

See the 2007 season 'Butler Bynote'--not only did he struggle to beat out WRECKS but SOB too!!!!!! Come our bye week this year--I will allow you to offer an apology to me once Chris Simms takes the helm............

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 10:05 AM
I dunno .... the more I read about Orton, the more I think Lovie had some kind of odd personal beef/dislike of the kid. Orton definitely performed for him, with victories if not stats, and he was benched for his trouble.

I think this was a Lovie thing, not a Kyle thing.

I think that your Simms hunch will prove correct --Orton will start,but by mid season we will realize that we never really had a #1 QB.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-17-2009, 10:07 AM
See the 2007 season 'Butler Bynote'--not only did he struggle to beat out WRECKS but SOB too!!!!!! Come our bye week this year--I will allow you to offer an apology to me once Chris Simms takes the helm............

Your butler by'not'e joke wasnt funny the first 50 times you said it. And i'll safely argue that Orton was never involved in an open competition with those two. he didnt get his opportunity till the end of 07, and played decently in the 3 he played. Then he beat out Rex in 08. Players improve, believe it or not. You remain an ahole though.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-17-2009, 10:07 AM
I think that this thread is racist towards white people.

/fixed

Crushaholic
06-17-2009, 10:08 AM
“What can you say about Kyle?” tight end Greg Olsen asked after Sunday’s 48-41 victory over the Vikings. “He is turning into an elite passer in this league.”

The rest of the story here: http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/oct/20/sports/chi-20-downey-bears-chicagooct20

Wait a second. You mean he can actually lead a team to victory, even when the defense has a bad day? Wow...:thumbsup:

BroncoInSkinland
06-17-2009, 10:13 AM
I agree that the media focuses on the negative. It also appears the Orangemane does as well, hence the reason I said this thread would get buried due to its positive nature. The Mane? In this particular thread, I believe it is you and Lelo that were focusing on the negative, check my original post again, tell me which part was negative for the Broncos? All one has to do is take a look at the front page to see what we "Orangemane" focus on.
All your points can be argued and I think they all stem from a change in regime. Actually none of the points can be argued. They are facts. 1. We fired Shanahan. 2. We traded Cutler. 3. We fired the Goodmans. 4. We drafted 1 out of 9 for the Defensive line. 5. We traded our pick. 6. Marshall is holding out and requesting a trade. Please make a single post to address any of these that you think can be argued. There were many who thought it was a good time for change. I didn't mention anything about whether it was time for a change or not. When a new regime comes in, things like changes in the scouting department, coaching staff, etc. will happen so it's all interrelated. I agree, but when Bowlen named the Goodmans to the GM position, I didn't think the head coach would or should be able to out them. I think a lot of people were hoping a new staff would come in and keep everything the same but that's not the norm. I don't think anyone thought a new coach would keep everything the same, just the parts that were working, like our QB and 1st WR who both went to the pro-bowl. It's human nature to want to surround yourself with the pieces and parts you know and are comfortable with. Yes, it is human nature, but it's not always for the best. McDaniels has learned a brand of coaching and management and he is sticking to what he knows. Yes he is, and as I have pointed out before, I think that could be a positive, it has worked in NE, and could work here as well. I'd be concerned if he just tossed it all out the window to be popular with the media and the fans. Then you don't need to worry about the negative press, perhaps you should stop questioning why the stories are so negative.
As far as the holdout is concerned, it has nothing to do with the front office... it's on Marshall. I agree, and have so said several times now. You paint a far worse picture than I do. What picture do you think I am painting? Trading away a first rounder next year for pick 37 this year is NOT a front office in turmoil. No, but in addition to the other moves it certainly raises eyebrows, and I bet there will be quite a few people next year who wish we had the pick in a deeper draft class to address either our QB situation or our d-line. You don't agree with the pick but they targeted a player and got him. Actually I do agree with the pick, I like Smith, and think he will be a top CB at some point. I see him as a starter in a year or two to replace an aging Bailey, or to take his place if we trade him for value while we can get it. I have stated this many times since the draft. It's common knowledge that a future pick is equal to a round lower in the current year. It's also common knowledge that that axiom doesn't hold true with first round picks.
Finally, I did not say the front office is "not in the spotlight." I said that I believe the media/fan perception is not exactly on par with reality. Actually what you said is you wonder why the news media is always focused on the negatives, which is exactly the point I addressed. If they stick to their guns and refuse to trade Marshall then I feel like they are doing what they should be doing. I agree unless we can get good value for him, which we might. Marshall has no leverage in this situation. If Marshall didn't have any leverage there wouldn't be a story, there is.

If you are going to ask a question, please be prepared for the answer. Once again, I am not sure what you want. I was positive multiple times in my response, went out of my way to thank you for a good post and a positive article, agreed with the article and your take on it, and repped you for it. I still don't want to thread jack this good post, and still thank you for the link to an excellent story that I hadn't seen til now. I think Orton has potential and I think McDaniels can bring out that potential.

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 10:21 AM
Wait a second. You mean he can actually lead a team to victory, even when the defense has a bad day? Wow...:thumbsup:

ummmmmm.. you may want to look at that box score again...

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29619&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG7&override=true

Orton had 283 yards and TWO TD's.........Some of you are setting yourselves up for a disappointment of EPIC proportions......

SonOfLe-loLang
06-17-2009, 10:25 AM
If you are going to ask a question, please be prepared for the answer. Once again, I am not sure what you want. I was positive multiple times in my response, went out of my way to thank you for a good post and a positive article, agreed with the article and your take on it, and repped you for it. I still don't want to thread jack this good post, and still thank you for the link to an excellent story that I hadn't seen til now. I think Orton has potential and I think McDaniels can bring out that potential.

When the hell did i focus on the negative? I think i've been one of the positive voices re: the broncos season in this forum. I actually will wait and see before i pass judgment.

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 10:28 AM
When the hell did i focus on the negative? I think i've been one of the positive voices re: the broncos season in this forum. I actually will wait and see before i pass judgment.

Some people look before they cross the street, others wait until they catch a car's fender...your blind fandom is about to be run over............

vancejohnson82
06-17-2009, 10:29 AM
ummmmmm.. you may want to look at that box score again...

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29619&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG7&override=true

Orton had 283 yards and TWO TD's.........Some of you are setting yourselves up for a disappointment of EPIC proportions......

And??? That's a bad game??

In another thread we are being told that Cutlers Bills game was a good game.....lets try and be consistent here

BroncoInSkinland
06-17-2009, 10:30 AM
When the hell did i focus on the negative? I think i've been one of the positive voices re: the broncos season in this forum. I actually will wait and see before i pass judgment.

Looking back over the post you are correct, I apologize for bringing you into it. The first response to your what does this have to do with orton question is what brought your name to mind, but really that wasn't negative, just a question that I felt was misguided. Once again I appologize.

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 10:33 AM
And??? That's a bad game??

In another thread we are being told that Cutlers Bills game was a good game.....lets try and be consistent here

Where did I write that he had a 'bad' game? I DIDN'T. He played as well as he can--which is AVG-GOOD. This thread's premise is that Orton somehow led the Bears to their shootout win--when he was merely along for the ride.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-17-2009, 10:37 AM
Some people look before they cross the street, others wait until they catch a car's fender...your blind fandom is about to be run over............

You reach new levels of retardation with each post. Bravo. It's not blind fandom, its trying to take a positive outlook on something we don't know the outcome of. Surprise teams sprout every year in football...just look at playoff team turnover rates.

vancejohnson82
06-17-2009, 10:39 AM
Where did I write that he had a 'bad' game? I DIDN'T. He played as well as he can--which is AVG-GOOD. This thread's premise is that Orton somehow led the Bears to their shootout win--when he was merely along for the ride.

No...the premise is that he WON

283 yards and 2TDs and a WIN

or

376 yards 3 TDs 2 INTs and a LOSS

You take your pick...you obviously like #2 better

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 10:40 AM
You reach new levels of retardation with each post. Bravo. It's not blind fandom, its trying to take a positive outlook on something we don't know the outcome of. Surprise teams sprout every year in football...just look at playoff team turnover rates.

This 'retard' makes more per week than you probably earn in a month---and it is BLIND Fandom when you cannot look at what we have lost and couple that with a HC who has never been a HC AT ANY LEVEL. I will HAPPILY apologize to you and put "Butler Bynote's #1fan" below my avatar if we have a winning record this year..........but it ain't happenin' Butler.

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 10:42 AM
No...the premise is that he WON

283 yards and 2TDs and a WIN

or

376 yards 3 TDs 2 INTs and a LOSS

You take your pick...you obviously like #2 better

No HERE is what I'd prefer--#2 + a Steve Spagnuolo DEFFENSE.

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 10:45 AM
No...the premise is that he WON

283 yards and 2TDs and a WIN

or

376 yards 3 TDs 2 INTs and a LOSS

You take your pick...you obviously like #2 better

His team scored 2 fumble return TD's. Otherwise he doesn't win and CHI fans are clamoring for a QB who has the ability to throw it all over the field and challenge the defense.........

SonOfLe-loLang
06-17-2009, 10:51 AM
This 'retard' makes more per week than you probably earn in a month---and it is BLIND Fandom when you cannot look at what we have lost and couple that with a HC who has never been a HC AT ANY LEVEL. I will HAPPILY apologize to you and put "Butler Bynote's #1fan" below my avatar if we have a winning record this year..........but it ain't happenin' Butler.

First off, you don't know what i earn, secondly, the kids from the hills make a lot of money and smart isnt the first word that comes to mind.

Thirdly, i didnt say i wasnt skeptical, i said i wasn't going to condemn them BEFORE WE EVEN SEE THEM PLAY. pardon me for not being a glass half empty kind of person. I'm sorry you're a miserable a-hole.

The By'not'e comments still aren't funny. I'm glad your sense of humor is simple enough to make yourself laugh

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 10:58 AM
First off, you don't know what i earn, secondly, the kids from the hills make a lot of money and smart isnt the first word that comes to mind.

Thirdly, i didnt say i wasnt skeptical, i said i wasn't going to condemn them BEFORE WE EVEN SEE THEM PLAY. pardon me for not being a glass half empty kind of person. I'm sorry you're a miserable a-hole.

The By'not'e comments still aren't funny. I'm glad your sense of humor is simple enough to make yourself laugh

As I wrote earlier--some people look both ways before crossing the street--others hop mindlessly along until they catch a fender....OPEN YOUR EYES. All you need to do is look at our roster and schedule..........The schedule McD couldn't do anything about--our roster on the other is entirely of his doing.........but why show up to a Gun fight without even a knife in your hand?--with this roster we are practically quadriplegic........5-11 or worse. Those are Chiefs and Raiders -like records--

vancejohnson82
06-17-2009, 11:04 AM
No HERE is what I'd prefer--#2 + a Steve Spagnuolo DEFFENSE.

oh so let me get this straight....

you like Spags, who has never been a head coach...and had no success at HC....who works off of a "system"

but

you hate McDaniels, who has never been a head coach...and has had no success at HC...who works off of a system


I get it

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 11:09 AM
oh so let me get this straight....

you like Spags, who has never been a head coach...and had no success at HC....who works off of a "system"

but

you hate McDaniels, who has never been a head coach...and has had no success at HC...who works off of a system


I get it

What you obviously won't get until the bullets start flying in September is that you DO NOT TRADE franchise QB's. Instead of just building up just our D/ST's we are now having to build all 3 phases--and we are letting a 32 year old with no prior coahcing experience do just that--and Spags does not have the level of personnel control that McD enjoys......hence the Goodmans may also still be in Denver if he were hired.......open up your eyes........

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-17-2009, 11:09 AM
This 'retard' makes more per week than you probably earn in a month---and it is BLIND Fandom when you cannot look at what we have lost and couple that with a HC who has never been a HC AT ANY LEVEL. I will HAPPILY apologize to you and put "Butler Bynote's #1fan" below my avatar if we have a winning record this year..........but it ain't happenin' Butler.

And? Paris Hilton has a ton of money. She's not exactly a Mensa member.

The money you earn has zero to do with your mental acuity. Lucky for you.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-17-2009, 11:10 AM
What you obviously won't get until the bullets start flying in September is that you DO NOT TRADE franchise QB's. Instead of just building up just our D/ST's we are now having to build all 3 phases--and we are letting a 32 year old with no prior coahcing experience do just that--and Spags does not have the level of personnel control that McD enjoys......hence the Goodmans may also still be in Denver if he were hired.......open up your eyes........

There are going to be bullets flying? This isn't one of your KKK rallies, BF7.

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 11:13 AM
oh so let me get this straight....

you like Spags, who has never been a head coach...and had no success at HC....who works off of a "system"

but

you hate McDaniels, who has never been a head coach...and has had no success at HC...who works off of a system


I get it

And don't get off of the topic of this thread--that Orton somehow led Chicago to a shootout victory--he DIDN'T. He was along for the ride. LOOK AT THE STATS

SonOfLe-loLang
06-17-2009, 11:13 AM
As I wrote earlier--some people look both ways before crossing the street--others hop mindlessly along until they catch a fender....OPEN YOUR EYES. All you need to do is look at our roster and schedule..........The schedule McD couldn't do anything about--our roster on the other is entirely of his doing.........but why show up to a Gun fight without even a knife in your hand?--with this roster we are practically quadriplegic........5-11 or worse. Those are Chiefs and Raiders -like records--

You must be divorced or in a horrible marriage because you clearly never listen. You have NEVER seen a McD fielded broncos team, so there is no way you can speculate. You can take a stab at what you might think this team will look like, but you have NO WAY OF KNOWING. And, once again, i never said i was going in with blind faith, i said i was going in with a positive outlook because EVERY YEAR there are surprise teams in the NFL. EVERY YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, you make my blood boil. You are what i hate about humanity. You are what makes me a misanthrope. Congratulations, you miserable asshole

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 11:13 AM
If you are going to ask a question, please be prepared for the answer. Once again, I am not sure what you want. I was positive multiple times in my response, went out of my way to thank you for a good post and a positive article, agreed with the article and your take on it, and repped you for it. I still don't want to thread jack this good post, and still thank you for the link to an excellent story that I hadn't seen til now. I think Orton has potential and I think McDaniels can bring out that potential.


OK, first of all ... I NEVER QUESTIONED WHY WE FOCUS ON THE NEGATIVE. Re-read my post and try to understand.

This thread will be buried in a matter of hours because it's not negative. We wonder why the media/news is almost always focused on negatives?

If you read that statement I was eluding to the fact that negativity sells. It was a rhetorical question. Perhaps a bit sarcastic. I was NOT asking for a response. You can stop this rant now.

Second, in response to your "I'm not sure what you want?" question. WTF are you talking about? I could care less if you are positive or negative. You are entitled your opinions. I really have no idea what you are all fired up about.

I am definitely not focused on the negatives. Please show me where I'm being negative. All I did is respond to your 7 point outline of this offseason. I see a lot of the changes as a natural progression of what happens when a new head coach is hired. Like I said, I'd be more worried if McDaniels came in here and tried to submit to the masses and do what is popular for the sake of his good name. He has already shown the ability to make tough decisions and he has made it clear that no player is above the team. I like that. I think it's POSITIVE. I also said that I think they are doing the right thing if they make Marshall sit and refuse to trade him... POSITIVE. Do you think I'm being negative because I didn't exactly agree with all your points?

I think a lot of your argument stems from the fact that you (for whatever reason) think I was asking why we focus on the negative. I hope you now understand that was not the case.

Are we clear?

Phew!

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 11:17 AM
You must be divorced or in a horrible marriage because you clearly never listen. You have NEVER seen a McD fielded broncos team, so there is no way you can speculate. You can take a stab at what you might think this team will look like, but you have NO WAY OF KNOWING. And, once again, i never said i was going in with blind faith, i said i was going in with a positive outlook because EVERY YEAR there are surprise teams in the NFL. EVERY YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, you make my blood boil. You are what i hate about humanity. You are what makes me a misanthrope. Congratulations, you miserable a-hole


You're welcome Butler! Hilarious!

BTW--that team will be the Houston Texans--watch.

vancejohnson82
06-17-2009, 11:23 AM
And don't get off of the topic of this thread--that Orton somehow led Chicago to a shootout victory--he DIDN'T. He was along for the ride. LOOK AT THE STATS

he threw ZERO picks and 284 yards...


I'd say he was a pretty big part of the reason they won

but whatever...

outdoor_miner
06-17-2009, 11:23 AM
This 'retard' makes more per week than you probably earn in a month

OH MY GOD!!! How much do you make? What do you do? How do you do it? Are you willing to share some tips and tricks? Would you consider publishing a newsletter? Making a video? Please, please, please - just give me a little more info. You can't say something like that and not tell us how you've achieved such tremendous success. Will you be my life coach?

broncswin
06-17-2009, 11:29 AM
OH MY GOD!!! How much do you make? What do you do? How do you do it? Are you willing to share some tips and tricks? Would you consider publishing a newsletter? Making a video? Please, please, please - just give me a little more info. You can't say something like that and not tell us how you've achieved such tremendous success. Will you be my life coach?

LMAO!!:notworthy

broncofan7
06-17-2009, 11:36 AM
he threw ZERO picks and 284 yards...


I'd say he was a pretty big part of the reason they won

but whatever...

The Bear's defense forced 6/Seis/Sei turnovers by Minnesota (4 picks of GUS)- AND Orton Fumbled in that game..........


END THREAD.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-17-2009, 11:39 AM
The Bear's defense forced 6/Seis/Sei turnovers by Minnesota (4 picks of GUS)- AND Orton Fumbled in that game..........


END THREAD.

Better listen to him, guys. he's about to get out his hood.

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 11:41 AM
The Bear's defense forced 6/Seis/Sei turnovers by Minnesota (4 picks of GUS)- AND Orton Fumbled in that game..........


END THREAD.

Man, you are really onto something there... :rofl:

vancejohnson82
06-17-2009, 11:44 AM
The Bear's defense forced 6/Seis/Sei turnovers by Minnesota (4 picks of GUS)- AND Orton Fumbled in that game..........


END THREAD.


Yup...Gus threw 4 and Orton threw 0

if you think at the play by play....plenty of 3rd and long spots where Orton throws the ball short to avoid forcing a pass...smart football....you put your defense on the field instead of making a bad mistake

but he should have tried harder to get that yard count up

kamakazi_kal
06-17-2009, 12:00 PM
ha ha, I guess it makes no diff. that 5 weeks later when he played the Vikings again he/they got completely destroyed to the tune of 14 - 34.

vancejohnson82
06-17-2009, 12:05 PM
ha ha, I guess it makes no diff. that 5 weeks later when he played the Vikings again he/they got completely destroyed to the tune of 14 - 34.

kinda like losing 52-21

Popps
06-17-2009, 12:05 PM
Is there anything dorkier than someone using "end thread"... on their own post?

oubronco
06-17-2009, 12:07 PM
Yup...Gus threw 4 and Orton threw 0

if you think at the play by play....plenty of 3rd and long spots where Orton throws the ball short to avoid forcing a pass...smart football....you put your defense on the field instead of making a bad mistake
but he should have tried harder to get that yard count up

Too bad we don't have one

Popps
06-17-2009, 12:07 PM
ha ha, I guess it makes no diff. that 5 weeks later when he played the Vikings again he/they got completely destroyed to the tune of 14 - 34.

Dude, you're in LA. Can I courier you over a box of tissues or something?

You need a day off. You know, just to lay in bed, watch Lifetime, eat chocolates and have a good cry.

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 12:08 PM
Is there anything dorkier than someone using "end thread"... on their own post?

Someone who slips Mac into any computer discussion they can... ;D J/K Popps. I agree with what you said. It's like whoa... he said END THREAD so we better stop posting now. This guy means business.

You forgot to mention the BIG BOLD LETTERS as well.

oubronco
06-17-2009, 12:09 PM
Is there anything dorkier than someone using "end thread"... on their own post?


hmmm... :ouwknow:

kamakazi_kal
06-17-2009, 12:11 PM
kinda like losing 52-21

so are we now making it about they guy who is no longer our starting QB?

kamakazi_kal
06-17-2009, 12:20 PM
Dude, you're in LA. Can I courier you over a box of tissues or something?

You need a day off. You know, just to lay in bed, watch Lifetime, eat chocolates and have a good cry.

yeah ok dude, you can attack me personaly if it makes you feel better.

Not saying the guy has no skills but this guy will not carry this team. If Marshall skips town he's in trouble. Fact is Denver as a whole are nowhere near the team he had in Chicago.
I'm just trying to put on some sunglasses to block the blinding light being shined of Kyle's ass by everyone.

Kyle should get used to it as Denver's starting QB. It is now just how it's been since Elway.

Oh and if you want to send me some chocolates I like those caramel clusters and the "heath bar" type toffee ones.

BroncoBuff
06-17-2009, 12:24 PM
yeah ok dude, you can attack me personaly if it makes you feel better.
Isn't it sad how he does that? Anybody who doesn't kowtow to management, Popps rails on them, McCarthy-style.

He even called me the "C" word a few times this week ... :nono:

If I ran this board, that'd earn Popps or anybody else a week off. "C' word, "N" word, "S" word, even "F" word (full version "F" that is) ... use any one of those, and it's a week off. Maybe one warning I suppose.

vancejohnson82
06-17-2009, 12:26 PM
Isn't it sad how he does that? Anybody who doesn't kowtow to management, Popps rails on them, McCarthy-style.

He even called me the "C" word a few times this week ... :nono:

If I ran this board, that'd earn Popps or anybody else a week off. "C' word, "N" word, "S" word, even "F" word (full version "F" that is) ... use any one of those, and it's a week off. Maybe one warning I suppose.

wow...I was told that someone hoped my "whole family was in a car hit by a semi and burned to their deaths" --- seems like you got off easy

i think we should refrain from "How much money do you make" comments too

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 12:26 PM
yeah ok dude, you can attack me personaly if it makes you feel better.

Not saying the guy has no skills but this guy will not carry this team. If Marshall skips town he's in trouble. Fact is Denver as a whole are nowhere near the team he had in Chicago.
I'm just trying to put on some sunglasses to block the blinding light being shined of Kyle's ass by everyone.

Kyle should get used to it as Denver's starting QB. It is now just how it's been since Elway.

Oh and if you want to send me some chocolates I like those caramel clusters and the "heath bar" type toffee ones.

:confuzzle

BroncoBuff
06-17-2009, 12:27 PM
Is there anything dorkier than someone using "end thread"... on their own post?

On their own "thread," yeah ... on that we can agree.

I once started a thread IN THE BUTT ... I knew it was so pointless I actually started the thread in the Butt to save mods the trouble ... :~ohyah!:

BroncoBuff
06-17-2009, 12:28 PM
wow...I was told that someone hoped my "whole family was in a car hit by a semi and burned to their deaths"

I thought we all agreed ... no more -Slap- references! :~ohyah!:

BroncoBuff
06-17-2009, 01:02 PM
:confuzzle

You don't see that?

I think Kai is right ... there's guys on here posting all forms of, "hey look, if you use this contorted statistical model, Orton is actually better than Cutler!"

There's been alotta that.

vancejohnson82
06-17-2009, 01:04 PM
You don't see that?

I think Kai is right ... there's guys on here posting all forms of, "hey look, if you use this contorted statistical model, Orton is actually better than Cutler!"

There's been alotta that.

No, no, no....

Nobody is saying that Orton is better than Cutler....what people are saying is that Orton has the same chance of being successful as Cutler because one has shown the ability to play within a system....the other has shown that he needs to be THE system

Talent wise the gap is not even arguable

Popps
06-17-2009, 01:09 PM
Y "hey look, if you use this contorted statistical model, Orton is actually better than Cutler!"
t.

Or you could just use wins.

:welcome:

BroncoBuff
06-17-2009, 01:10 PM
No, no, no....

Nobody is saying that Orton is better than Cutler....what people are saying is that Orton has the same chance of being successful as Cutler because one has shown the ability to play within a system....the other has shown that he needs to be THE system

Talent wise the gap is not even arguable

Agree and disagree. Here's a classic Lil' Hoodie sycophant's post on the subject: "Jay has a stronger arm sure, but here is why Orton is the better quarterback ... [insert some vague statistical model]."

There has been alotta that.

BroncoBuff
06-17-2009, 01:13 PM
Or you could just use wins.

:welcome:
See what I'm saying Vance? There's a million different ways to say "Kyle is better than Jay."

One thing we do know for sure ... none of these guys said anything close to this before Jay-gate ... they would've been laughed into orbit :~ohyah!:


I should say though, Kyle is our quarterback now, and I support him 100%. I'm disappointed Simms didn't put up a little better fight, bt I'm anxious to see both of them in pre-season :thumbs:

vancejohnson82
06-17-2009, 01:22 PM
See what I'm saying Vance? There's a million different ways to say "Kyle is better than Jay."

One thing we do know for sure ... none of these guys said anything close to this before Jay-gate ... they would've been laughed into orbit :~ohyah!:


I should say though, Kyle is our quarterback now, and I support him 100%. I'm disappointed Simms didn't put up a little better fight, bt I'm anxious to see both of them in pre-season :thumbs:

Well, I wouldnt be surprised to see some grumblings about Simms pushing Orton in the preseason....he's a "gamer" and doesnt shy away from a QB competition, but neither has Orton in the past...hopefully that competition can keep them both up at night studying the playbook and not drinking Jack Daniels at frat parties (orton, I'm looking at you)

My personal tone on Jay has always been "immensely talented, but when is that light in his head going to go on and elevate his game to that next leve"...its not going to happen in Denver unfortunately, and selfishly I don't want it to ever happen

we all know, no matter what we say, that Orton is not "better" than Cutler...but is he better for the team right now? (what our coach wants, what plays into the system, what we need right now)...who knows...I tend to be on the side of management just because they are still here and Cutler is not...also, I have a feeling that Cutler would be out of here in a few years anyway...

Theres a lot to be excited about this year (Moreno, a healthy Champ, Royal, Ayers, the OL, Dawkins) but we cant seem to ever get to it..

uplink
06-17-2009, 01:31 PM
Orton's upcoming performance as a bronco is so really hard to predict.

BroncoMan4ever
06-17-2009, 01:34 PM
i am thinking naming him as the starter now is a way to get his confidence up. because when he is feeling good and confident, Orton can play damn well. i think he is going to have a great season for us.

Popps
06-17-2009, 01:41 PM
See what I'm saying Vance? There's a million different ways to say "Kyle is better than Jay."
:

Oh, I didn't say he was better than Jay. Talent-wise, he's clearly not.

But, you had said you needed bizarre statistical methods to make any sort of case for him.

I just said if one wanted to make a case for Kyle, you could simply use wins.

kamakazi_kal
06-17-2009, 01:45 PM
Oh, I didn't say he was better than Jay. Talent-wise, he's clearly not.

But, you had said you needed bizarre statistical methods to make any sort of case for him.

I just said if one wanted to make a case for Kyle, you could simply use wins.

not really, cutler didn't win the game by himself and the same goes for kyle.

over the last 3 years .... the bears overall team has just been plain better.

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 01:47 PM
You don't see that?

I think Kai is right ... there's guys on here posting all forms of, "hey look, if you use this contorted statistical model, Orton is actually better than Cutler!"

There's been alotta that.

No, I don't see everyone saying Orton is a better QB. I've seen plenty of people on here like yourself saying he is not very good.

I don't even begin to compare them. I'm just trying to get on board with what we have here now which is Kyle Orton.

fdf
06-17-2009, 02:09 PM
Some people look before they cross the street, others wait until they catch a car's fender...your blind fandom is about to be run over............

It is too bad Bowlen shook things up. Until McDaniels showed up, us fans were NEVER disappointed with the Broncos. Drafts were great. Free agency signings were great. And we won the superbowl every year.

I'll admit that every offseason for the past decade, I have had great hopes for the Broncos and even convinced myself that, this year, Shanahan had fixed things. Every year, my "blind fandom" in the offseason hit the reality of the season.

The folks who are being so negative will have the luxury for years of comparing their fantasy about what the Broncos were going to be if only Bowlen hadn't shook things up against actual reality--and nothing can prove their fantasy wrong. Reality never comes off very well in that comparison.

fdf
06-17-2009, 02:13 PM
Man, you are really onto something there... :rofl:

Not sure what that is. Does it have something to do with big letters? I know, when I saw "End Thread" in big, scary letters, I thought, "Well, that guy must understand things a lot better than I do."

I'm actually a little apprehensive about posting in a thread that has been ended with big, scary letters. Can I get in trouble for that?

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 02:31 PM
Not sure what that is. Does it have something to do with big letters? I know, when I saw "End Thread" in big, scary letters, I thought, "Well, that guy must understand things a lot better than I do."

I'm actually a little apprehensive about posting in a thread that has been ended with big, scary letters. Can I get in trouble for that?

broncofan7 has put you on the *** * list. From now on, you are dead to him.

DHallblows
06-17-2009, 04:38 PM
Wins are a team static

Mr.Meanie
06-17-2009, 05:12 PM
I was going to post a rebuttal, but then I realized broncofan7 had posted an END THREAD, thus ending this thread.

BroncoBuff
06-17-2009, 05:17 PM
No, I don't see everyone saying Orton is a better QB. I've seen plenty of people on here like yourself saying he is not very good.

I don't even begin to compare them. I'm just trying to get on board with what we have here now which is Kyle Orton.

I never said "everyone" said Orton is a better QB ... and I never said he's "not very good," either. Actually for many many years I liked him because as a big-time high school recruit, who was a Nebraska fan, he took a visit to Boulder before choosing Purdue. In fact, he wore #18 in honor of the Nebraska QB who died in a plane crash (name?). But he stonewalled Big Red, not even an official visit, just an informal one. He didn't want to go to a run-first offense.

I HAVE pointed out that Lovie seemed anxious to bench him whenever somebody else was healthy, and that he has a sub-par completion percentage.

But Popps is right (imagine that) that Orton has a very good W-L record as a starter.

The thing about that is, Jay's record would be just as good if we had had even a mediocre defense.

Kaylore
06-17-2009, 05:40 PM
You guys are really living on the edge by posting here. Broncofan7 said end thread an entire page ago. I don't want to know what defying someone who posted in big letters could be...

bronco_boi_5280
06-17-2009, 05:47 PM
The Bear's defense forced 6/Seis/Sei turnovers by Minnesota (4 picks of GUS)- AND Orton Fumbled in that game..........


END THREAD.

You're a tool.

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 06:51 PM
I never said "everyone" said Orton is a better QB ... and I never said he's "not very good," either. Actually for many many years I liked him because as a big-time high school recruit, who was a Nebraska fan, he took a visit to Boulder before choosing Purdue. In fact, he wore #18 in honor of the Nebraska QB who died in a plane crash (name?). But he stonewalled Big Red, not even an official visit, just an informal one. He didn't want to go to a run-first offense.

I HAVE pointed out that Lovie seemed anxious to bench him whenever somebody else was healthy, and that he has a sub-par completion percentage.

But Popps is right (imagine that) that Orton has a very good W-L record as a starter.

The thing about that is, Jay's record would be just as good if we had had even a mediocre defense.

You didn't say everyone but you seemed to agree with Kamakazi's post that did. Just wanted to clarify. :)

watermock
06-17-2009, 07:14 PM
Vikings had 5 turnovers in that game.

OABB
06-17-2009, 07:23 PM
Orton is better than those who hate him say he is, but he isn't as good as those that like him think he is either.

he is Brian Griese with a much much better attitude and a competitive spirit. I'll take it.

Drek
06-17-2009, 08:03 PM
Orton is better than those who hate him say he is, but he isn't as good as those that like him think he is either.

he is Brian Griese with a much much better attitude and a competitive spirit. I'll take it.

Before Brian Griese blew his shoulder apart he was on his way to being one of the more efficient, productive QBs of his era.

Very, very few QBs have posted a >100 QB rating for a whole season. Griese did it when the remnants of a great SB offense was mostly on its way out the door.

If he's a better version of Griese, in an offense that plays to his talents like the 2000 Broncos system played to Griese's strengths, and he doesn't totally ruin his shoulder, he could be VERY impressive.

Orton will never be as talented as Cutler, but he is as much a warrior as any other QB you'll find in the league, he works damn hard at his craft, and when he's been healthy and given an uncontested shot to lead his team, he's not only produced wins but also produced impressive stats. I think its more likely he turns some heads this off-season with positive play than ****s the bed and gives the spot up to Simms.

Popcorn Sutton
06-17-2009, 08:17 PM
Before Brian Griese blew his shoulder apart he was on his way to being one of the more efficient, productive QBs of his era.

Very, very few QBs have posted a >100 QB rating for a whole season. Griese did it when the remnants of a great SB offense was mostly on its way out the door.

If he's a better version of Griese, in an offense that plays to his talents like the 2000 Broncos system played to Griese's strengths, and he doesn't totally ruin his shoulder, he could be VERY impressive.

Orton will never be as talented as Cutler, but he is as much a warrior as any other QB you'll find in the league, he works damn hard at his craft, and when he's been healthy and given an uncontested shot to lead his team, he's not only produced wins but also produced impressive stats. I think its more likely he turns some heads this off-season with positive play than ****s the bed and gives the spot up to Simms.

Word.

bronco_boi_5280
06-17-2009, 08:32 PM
Vikings had 5 turnovers in that game.

You mean, your real favorite team? What a shame.

GreatBronco16
06-17-2009, 09:13 PM
I thought this thread was ended BF7 better get in here and re end it again.

OABB
06-17-2009, 09:21 PM
I thought this thread was ended BF7 better get in here and re end it again.

he has add....he can't concentrate.

GreatBronco16
06-17-2009, 09:40 PM
he has add....he can't concentrate.

I thought it was called 'bob', then again that might be some other kind of disease.

ZONA
06-17-2009, 09:43 PM
I have every reason to believe Orton can succeed here. He never really had a good QB guy to work with in Chicago and he had a bad injury and they couldn't make up their mind week to week so none of them could really ever develop any continuity. I'll say it again, change of scenery and a proven coach who knows how to get the best out of QB's will definitely help Orton. He's also got a much better OL then he did in Chicago and better receivers also.

I fully expect Orton to run this offense very well and score alot of points. I'm not gonna say how often he will win because the defense has to step up big time for that to happen.

Flex Gunmetal
06-17-2009, 09:48 PM
My lord BF7 is a joke.
I wonder if everyones gonna eat crow if we win this year.

broncocalijohn
06-17-2009, 11:56 PM
This thread will be buried in a matter of hours because it's not negative. We wonder why the media/news is almost always focused on negatives?

trust me, all you need is Mock to tell us how much the coach sucks, it was part of the 9/11 conspiracy and the thread war will wage this baby to page 9 and beyond. Someone will try to start the peace by food jacking the thread and that will get another 2 pages and the pot heads all salivating for some 7-11 3 hour heated hot dogs with chili. No brainer. OTOH, thanks for a positive spin.

broncocalijohn
06-18-2009, 12:00 AM
You mean, your real favorite team? What a shame.

so what is your other handle name? No one that signed up last month knows about Mock's favorite team, the Viks. Come on, PM me and give it up.

BroncoMan4ever
06-18-2009, 12:20 AM
Before Brian Griese blew his shoulder apart he was on his way to being one of the more efficient, productive QBs of his era.

Very, very few QBs have posted a >100 QB rating for a whole season. Griese did it when the remnants of a great SB offense was mostly on its way out the door.

If he's a better version of Griese, in an offense that plays to his talents like the 2000 Broncos system played to Griese's strengths, and he doesn't totally ruin his shoulder, he could be VERY impressive.

Orton will never be as talented as Cutler, but he is as much a warrior as any other QB you'll find in the league, he works damn hard at his craft, and when he's been healthy and given an uncontested shot to lead his team, he's not only produced wins but also produced impressive stats. I think its more likely he turns some heads this off-season with positive play than ****s the bed and gives the spot up to Simms.


he is also stronger mentally than Cutler is. he hasn't been handed anything so far in his career, always having to battle for his spot on the team or to start. he doesn't have the inflated ego for accomplishing nothing of real merit like Cutler had, he doesn't have the ego that he can throw a ball through a brick wall and complete any pass that Jay did, which will lead to a lot fewer turnovers.

we don't have as much of the athleticism at the QB position we had with Jay, but we now have a guy who is solid, and is a more cerebral QB than Jay was.

Doggcow
06-18-2009, 12:27 AM
he is also stronger mentally than Cutler is. he hasn't been handed anything so far in his career, always having to battle for his spot on the team or to start. he doesn't have the inflated ego for accomplishing nothing of real merit like Cutler had, he doesn't have the ego that he can throw a ball through a brick wall and complete any pass that Jay did, which will lead to a lot fewer turnovers.

we don't have as much of the athleticism at the QB position we had with Jay, but we now have a guy who is solid, and is a more cerebral QB than Jay was.

Guys with chips on their shoulders are always great to have on your team. Think TD, Rod Smith and Al Wilson for starters! They make GREAT leaders.

BroncoMan4ever
06-18-2009, 12:47 AM
Guys with chips on their shoulders are always great to have on your team. Think TD, Rod Smith and Al Wilson for starters! They make GREAT leaders.

i see your point completely and agree. it is always the guys who had to work their asses off to get some notice for their accomplishments that end up as the most important leaders on the team, but i am having trouble remembering a reason as to why Al would have been playing with a chip on his shoulder?

vancejohnson82
06-18-2009, 07:11 AM
i thought Bronco7 said to END THIS THREAD....

what are you guys doing???

Popcorn Sutton
06-18-2009, 07:21 AM
trust me, all you need is Mock to tell us how much the coach sucks, it was part of the 9/11 conspiracy and the thread war will wage this baby to page 9 and beyond. Someone will try to start the peace by food jacking the thread and that will get another 2 pages and the pot heads all salivating for some 7-11 3 hour heated hot dogs with chili. No brainer. OTOH, thanks for a positive spin.

Hilarious!

Cito Pelon
06-18-2009, 07:55 AM
The bottom line is Orton is a decent NFL QB.

fdf
06-19-2009, 09:45 AM
broncofan7 has put you on the *** * list. From now on, you are dead to him.

DANG

fdf
08-02-2009, 11:21 PM
Before Brian Griese blew his shoulder apart he was on his way to being one of the more efficient, productive QBs of his era.

Very, very few QBs have posted a >100 QB rating for a whole season. Griese did it when the remnants of a great SB offense was mostly on its way out the door.

If he's a better version of Griese, in an offense that plays to his talents like the 2000 Broncos system played to Griese's strengths, and he doesn't totally ruin his shoulder, he could be VERY impressive.

Orton will never be as talented as Cutler, but he is as much a warrior as any other QB you'll find in the league, he works damn hard at his craft, and when he's been healthy and given an uncontested shot to lead his team, he's not only produced wins but also produced impressive stats. I think its more likely he turns some heads this off-season with positive play than ****s the bed and gives the spot up to Simms.

I know I'm jumping onto an old thread. But this is a really good post. Griese got a lot of crap around here. But he played light's out the season Romanowski blew out his shoulder with a late hit. Griese never really recovered from that injury.

Yeah, Griese was a weirdo and probably had a drinking problem. He also fumbled too much when he got blindsided. But he was heck on wheels pre-injury as a quarterback. I'd take Griese with the good shoulder over cutler as is.

If Orton plays as well as pre-injury Griese and adds a little leadership (not being a dick and having his teamates like him would help and not having to invent streams of lame-o excuses about dogs and driveways), our O will do just fine this year.

Hulamau
08-02-2009, 11:48 PM
I dunno .... the more I read about Orton, the more I think Lovie had some kind of odd personal beef/dislike of the kid. Orton definitely performed for him, with victories if not stats, and he was benched for his trouble.

I think this was a Lovie thing, not a Kyle thing.

He wasn't benched his last year. Lovie, Angelo and the rest of the numbskulls there finally realized they had a diamond in the rough that only needed a little time and faith on their part to start shining through.

But of course, since they were the same, guys blinded by the 'Big Arm' as proven by their myopic love affair with Grossman, they didn't think twice about trading him when Cutler suddenly bitched himself onto the market.

Who knows maybe it works out for both teams and everyone is happy long term? Or maybe Jay refuses to grow up and limits what a great QB he could become IF he becomes a well rounded and more mature individual along the way as well?

As long as Orton can become one of the real strengths of this team as I suspect he will, and not a liability, then I'm MUCH happier having a QB we can actually like and support as a human being as well.

TheChamp24
08-03-2009, 07:23 AM
I know I'm jumping onto an old thread. But this is a really good post. Griese got a lot of crap around here. But he played light's out the season Romanowski blew out his shoulder with a late hit. Griese never really recovered from that injury.

Yeah, Griese was a weirdo and probably had a drinking problem. He also fumbled too much when he got blindsided. But he was heck on wheels pre-injury as a quarterback. I'd take Griese with the good shoulder over cutler as is.

If Orton plays as well as pre-injury Griese and adds a little leadership (not being a dick and having his teamates like him would help and not having to invent streams of lame-o excuses about dogs and driveways), our O will do just fine this year.

I was probably too hard on Griese, I remember back in his amazing 2000 season, he looked like he was going to be a solid QB.
However, one thing, he folded under pressure too easily. He hardly ever showed up in big games, and made some idiotic plays in the heat of the game. Coincidentally, we forgave Plummer/Cutler for some of those same mistakes.
To me, it was Griese was an okay starter who couldn't win you a game.

As for Orton, I think he could be similar to Griese, a decent starting QB who in the right system will be an okay starter, but not someone who will win you a game.

McDenver
08-03-2009, 09:41 AM
The huge thing that Griese had going against him was that he was the first Denver QB to follow big John Elway. The shadow that John casts now is still apparent, but back then the shadow was massive.

ScottXray
08-03-2009, 10:36 AM
I was probably too hard on Griese, I remember back in his amazing 2000 season, he looked like he was going to be a solid QB.
However, one thing, he folded under pressure too easily. He hardly ever showed up in big games, and made some idiotic plays in the heat of the game. Coincidentally, we forgave Plummer/Cutler for some of those same mistakes.
To me, it was Griese was an okay starter who couldn't win you a game.

As for Orton, I think he could be similar to Griese, a decent starting QB who in the right system will be an okay starter, but not someone who will win you a game.

In that game against Oakland that his shoulder got screwed up on he DID win the game. Showed tremendous toughness hanging in and throwing with a separated shoulder. In hindsight it might have been better if he had come out. I'm sure he exacerbated the injury by continuing to throw. After that he was never the same.

TheChamp24
08-03-2009, 11:46 AM
In that game against Oakland that his shoulder got screwed up on he DID win the game. Showed tremendous toughness hanging in and throwing with a separated shoulder. In hindsight it might have been better if he had come out. I'm sure he exacerbated the injury by continuing to throw. After that he was never the same.

Winning a regular season game against Oakland is really all you can say about him.
What about the other games against Oakland where he folded up like a fetus in a womb?

2KBack
08-03-2009, 12:05 PM
Winning a regular season game against Oakland is really all you can say about him.
What about the other games against Oakland where he folded up like a fetus in a womb?

Griese was 5-3 against the Raiders (4-0 before his shoulder injury), and that was the last few years that the raiders were good.