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lex
06-15-2009, 01:46 PM
Celestial Seasonings Tension Tamer?

Thats exactly it.

Mr.Meanie
06-15-2009, 01:46 PM
I guess you'd be happy with Eddie Royal, Jabbar Gaffney, and Brandon Stokley?

Berrian isn't ideal I agree. I'd much prefer a Braylon Edwards or Anquan Boldin. But that isn't going to happen. People are overvaluing BMarsh.

Berrian has avg'd 900 yards, 6 TDs and 15 ypc over the past three years. That is pretty good production and in a horrific passing offense the entire time!

Again, not ideal but it's not like a team is going to be willing to give up Andre Johnson or Steve Smith for Brandon Marshall.

We're in the running for guys like Berrian b/c Marshall has two strikes against him and is injured on top of that!

No, you do what AZ has done with Q and make him play out his contract for the last 2 years if he isn't going to negotiate. If he wants to hold out beyond that, he will absolutely destroy his trade value and he knows it. His best chance in that situation would be to go out and rack up serious stats to enhance his free market value when he hits the market.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 01:49 PM
yeah..the Cardinals are the Cheapest Bastards in the NFL

5+ years ago and I'd agree with you. Now? Far from it.

lex
06-15-2009, 01:50 PM
No, you do what AZ has done with Q and make him play out his contract for the last 2 years if he isn't going to negotiate. If he wants to hold out beyond that, he will absolutely destroy his trade value and he knows it. His best chance in that situation would be to go out and rack up serious stats to enhance his free market value when he hits the market.


...in the meantime, Pat just tells the fanbase "calm down, I know what Im doing...but keep forking over your cash"?

bronco militia
06-15-2009, 01:50 PM
5+ years ago and I'd agree with you. Now? Far from it.


they had no choice after crying for a new stadium

watermock
06-15-2009, 01:50 PM
Pretty funny that people are naive enough to think that most players care all that much about Shanny, or any coach, getting fired. It's a business and the players are looking to get paid. Coaches come and go on a very regular basis in all sports at all levels. It's not ideal but it's certainly not something out of the ordinary.

It's not about Shanny getting fired,.

It's about firing bates and not bringing in a 4/3 DC, like Ryan ar Spags.

montrose
06-15-2009, 01:52 PM
This sucks.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-15-2009, 01:53 PM
I would be okay sending both Marshall and Scheffler for Boldin... but why would the Cards do that? They don't want to pay big money to Boldin, why would they want to pay big money to Marshall?

They are one of the few teams that make sense. Sadly, the Bengals make sense too. If they would give up Ocho Stinko and an early pick, I would probably be okay with it.

I really don't like the idea of Royal, Gaffney, and Stokley.

Are you outo f your mind? What is this talk of us OVERVALUING MARSHALL????? He's 25 years old with TWO 100 catch seasons under his belt. He's had games (like the chargers one) where he completely takes over! He might be the best receiver in football after the catch...AND HE'S 25!!!!!!!11 And you want to send him AND scheffler to a guy who will turn 29 next season and doesnt even perform as well?


YOU GUYS ARE NUTS

SonOfLe-loLang
06-15-2009, 01:54 PM
It's not about Shanny getting fired,.

It's about firing bates and not bringing in a 4/3 DC, like Ryan ar Spags.

Whats wrong with a 3-4? We struggled against them for years

Broncoman13
06-15-2009, 01:55 PM
ftr, I agree with those that say we should just sit on the thought and not acquiesce to his "trade demands". We'll pay for it in terms of production or lack thereof, but we can't get fair market value for him. His production is that of a Marques Colston, Anquan Boldin, Greg Jennings type. The only receivers in the league that are hands down better than him, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Steve Smith, and Calvin Johnson. Our best move is to not move.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 01:58 PM
ftr, I agree with those that say we should just sit on the thought and not acquiesce to his "trade demands". We'll pay for it in terms of production or lack thereof, but we can't get fair market value for him. His production is that of a Marques Colston, Anquan Boldin, Greg Jennings type. The only receivers in the league that are hands down better than him, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Steve Smith, and Calvin Johnson. Our best move is to not move.

That's been the theme of the off-season and hasn't stopped anyone yet!

gyldenlove
06-15-2009, 01:58 PM
Whats wrong with a 3-4? We struggled against them for years

3-4 is negative, you never want a negative attitude on defense. You need your team to have a positive attitude, that will lead to winning, that is why I prefer the 5-2, it is the most positive defensive scheme currently being used in the pros.

watermock
06-15-2009, 01:59 PM
Now one can complain that he was a poor talent evaluator but two the last three drafts have been spectacular and they were trending up in that regard.

IF allowed, they probably could had another great draft this past April, trying to fix a defense that had fallen on tough times and a lack of TO's. Let us not forget that our two best defenders, Champ Bailey and DJ Williams missed a bunch of games last year.

With the cash we had this offseason we probably still make some of the same moves in free agency. I wouldn't doubt that Dawkins would be in our secondary right now. I could see us attempting to sign Hill, possibly Goodman if we would have moved Bly. Hell, we probably try harder to sign an impact front 7 player like Bart Scott. We had 30 million under the cap to play with.

Armed with the 12th overall selection we probably still dip into the deep pool of defensive linemen. Chances are we probably still take a guy like Ayers, a versatile pass rushing physical style defender. Brian Cushing would have also been a possibility giving our LB's better depth. He could have manned the Sam, DJ at the Mike and Wesley Woodyard at the Will.

In round 2 or 3 we could have answered our HB/safety problems. LeSean McCoy and Shawn Greene were two guys I had on my radar that made a lot of sense. McBath and William Moore were both available in round 2. I projected McCoy similarly to Clinton Portis coming out and he would have been a great fit in our ZBS. He was also great catching the ball. We would have also had Torain and Hillis coming back from injury as well.

Bottom line is this draft was deep and the FO which was steadily improving could have layered the front 7/safety/HB with more selections that would have at least help us get to a respectable level in a few seasons. I stand by my comparison that we could have been playing similar to Indianapolis in a few seasons. We could have had a dominant passing attack featuring Marshall, Royal, Scheffler and Graham while our ZBS with healthy HB's could have led our team back into the top 10 of rushing. I hate Slowik but it must be argued that while his defense sucks, his overall lack of talent and injuries killed any chance for him to have success. Continued development by Marcus Thomas, Elvis Dumervil, Tim Crowder, Moss(?) along with Carlton Powell could have seen the defensive line get better and better.

Instead Bowlen f'd up the situation, ditched Shanahan, scrapped Cutler and now we're starting at ground zero. Our most explosive offensive skill player wants out and the defense is a mosh posh of mismatched parts which probably won't perform any better than it did last year. In the process he doubly screwed our future by letting the idiot, underage HC trade away our future number one pick which will eventually prolong the ****tyness we're about to engage upon.

Bright future ahead for our franchise.

jesus WE'RE FU@KED

bombquixote
06-15-2009, 02:00 PM
This sucks.

Word.

Broncoman13
06-15-2009, 02:01 PM
Are you outo f your mind? What is this talk of us OVERVALUING MARSHALL????? He's 25 years old with TWO 100 catch seasons under his belt. He's had games (like the chargers one) where he completely takes over! He might be the best receiver in football after the catch...AND HE'S 25!!!!!!!11 And you want to send him AND scheffler to a guy who will turn 29 next season and doesnt even perform as well?


YOU GUYS ARE NUTS


He is one outburst away from a substantial suspension, perhaps as long as a year. Considering he's been arrested 11 times, it's a safe bet that #12 isn't too far behind. While I don't think he is a bad guy, I do think he is incapable of controlling his emotions and #12 is already a done deal. Couple that with the fact that he has (per his own admission) numbness in his injured hand and a hip injury that is still very questionable... as in, he has yet to even run routes, let alone take a hit!

Think of it in these terms, Pac-man Jones was one of the up and coming young Corner Backs and premier return men in the league. He has actually had LESS run-ins than Brandon Marshall. His value was a late draft pick and Corner Backs are generally more coveted than WRs.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-15-2009, 02:02 PM
3-4 is negative, you never want a negative attitude on defense. You need your team to have a positive attitude, that will lead to winning, that is why I prefer the 5-2, it is the most positive defensive scheme currently being used in the pros.

I have no clue what youre talking about, though i assume its a joke? Though we pretty much are a 5-2, as is every 3-4 out there

SonOfLe-loLang
06-15-2009, 02:03 PM
He is one outburst away from a substantial suspension, perhaps as long as a year. Considering he's been arrested 11 times, it's a safe bet that #12 isn't too far behind. While I don't think he is a bad guy, I do think he is incapable of controlling his emotions and #12 is already a done deal. Couple that with the fact that he has (per his own admission) numbness in his injured hand and a hip injury that is still very questionable... as in, he has yet to even run routes, let alone take a hit!

Think of it in these terms, Pac-man Jones was one of the up and coming young Corner Backs and premier return men in the league. He has actually had LESS run-ins than Brandon Marshall. His value was a late draft pick and Corner Backs are generally more coveted than WRs.

I dont think his background will really factor into a trade as much as you think. Denver has ONE move here. KEEP HIM. Make him play.

Tombstone RJ
06-15-2009, 02:03 PM
jesus WE'RE FU@KED

So says chicken little...

Mr.Meanie
06-15-2009, 02:05 PM
ftr, I agree with those that say we should just sit on the thought and not acquiesce to his "trade demands". We'll pay for it in terms of production or lack thereof, but we can't get fair market value for him. His production is that of a Marques Colston, Anquan Boldin, Greg Jennings type. The only receivers in the league that are hands down better than him, Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Steve Smith, and Calvin Johnson. Our best move is to not move.

There are quite a few WRs that are better (imo) than Marshall. What about Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Roddy White, and I would even argue TJ Whosyourmama, Greg jennings and Colston all have outplayed Marshall. He's in the top 10 discussion, but only barely...

SonOfLe-loLang
06-15-2009, 02:08 PM
There are quite a few WRs that are better (imo) than Marshall. What about Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Roddy White, and I would even argue TJ Whosyourmama, Greg jennings and Colston all have outplayed Marshall. He's in the top 10 discussion, but only barely...

I'd easily take him over White, Houshmanzadeh, Jennings, and Colston actually.

Pseudofool
06-15-2009, 02:08 PM
Im touched.
http://pointlessbanter.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/man-crying-b.jpg

Tombstone RJ
06-15-2009, 02:11 PM
There are quite a few WRs that are better (imo) than Marshall. What about Randy Moss, Reggie Wayne, Roddy White, and I would even argue TJ Whosyourmama, Greg jennings and Colston all have outplayed Marshall. He's in the top 10 discussion, but only barely...

I'll agree to disagree. There is only a few YOUNG wide receivers I'd take before BMarsh (actually can't name one right off hand).

Certainly, you can argue that he still has much to prove, but you can't argue his upside and his physical talents.

Bigdawg26
06-15-2009, 02:11 PM
Kinda sucks with lost our first round pick for a second round because if we get rid of Marshall and Weighman we won't win over 7 games. I mean McDummy has taken over and actually made the team worst. He took the one thing going (our offense) and competely messed it up. We lost our best player on offense (Jay Culter was the most talented) and we are going to lose our pro bowl center and wide out. Not only that but our defense could be worst because it is a completely different scheme with an array of new players.

Tombstone RJ
06-15-2009, 02:13 PM
Kinda sucks with lost our first round pick for a second round because if we get rid of Marshall and Weighman we won't win over 7 games. I mean McDummy has taken over and actually made the team worst. He took the one thing going (our offense) and competely messed it up. We lost our best player on offense (Jay Culter was the most talented) and we are going to lose our pro bowl center and wide out. Not only that but our defense could be worst because it is a completely different scheme with an array of new players.

Dude, take a look outside your window: The--Sky--Is--Falling!

chaz
06-15-2009, 02:18 PM
OMG! What else can go wrong? Maybe Elway will denounce that he ever played for the Broncos and that he always wanted to be a raider.

LOL

lex
06-15-2009, 02:21 PM
I'd easily take him over White, Houshmanzadeh, Jennings, and Colston actually.


Maybe we could trade him to Seattle and get our 1st back. That would be extra awesome.

Mr.Meanie
06-15-2009, 02:25 PM
I'll agree to disagree. There is only a few YOUNG wide receivers I'd take before BMarsh (actually can't name one right off hand).

Certainly, you can argue that he still has much to prove, but you can't argue his upside and his physical talents.

I agree with the upside argument - he has tremendous upside, but IMO he has just as much potential to be the next TO or Plaxico. He always seems to be around or involved in some sort of off-field drama, and the Broncos should play hardball because of that crap.

bpc
06-15-2009, 02:26 PM
Maybe we could trade him to Seattle and get our 1st back. That would be extra awesome.

Maybe Seattle could talk us into giving away Brandon and our other 1st rounder so McDaniels can be paired back up with Deion Branch, cuz, ya know, he used to be a Patriot and if he came from there then he must be better than anything Denver had before.

I love that we handed over our franchise to this lil' ****-tard named McNugget. Best move we ever made.

elsid13
06-15-2009, 02:45 PM
This really really sucks. I think most people were very positive and upbeat about this team last season, and could see the trend upward happening.

Franchise QB being developed
Play makers at both WR spots
Great Young Left Tackle in place
Very solid line that showed sign of being the best in the league
Top notch talent at TE spot
Lots of cap room in place to get the defense players we needed
A good draft and FA and this team was set for the next 5 years.
Now this.

SouthStndJunkie
06-15-2009, 02:48 PM
This really really sucks. I think most people were very positive and upbeat about this team last season, and could see the trend upward happening.

Franchise QB being developed
Play makers at both WR spots
Great Young Left Tackle in place
Very solid line that showed sign of being the best in the league
Top notch talent at TE spot
Lots of cap room in place to get the defense players we needed
A good draft and FA and this team was set for the next 5 years.
Now this.

That plan went:

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 02:50 PM
This really really sucks. I think most people were very positive and upbeat about this team last season, and could see the trend upward happening.

Franchise QB being developed
Play makers at both WR spots
Great Young Left Tackle in place
Very solid line that showed sign of being the best in the league
Top notch talent at TE spot
Lots of cap room in place to get the defense players we needed
A good draft and FA and this team was set for the next 5 years.
Now this.

http://blogs.propertyfinder.com/outthere/upload/2007/09/toilet%20flush.jpg

DBroncos4life
06-15-2009, 02:58 PM
Well this is the most ass backwards way to do things. Hey everyone Denver is just a farm league team now! Has anyone stopped and thought about what if Jack Williams is good and he beats out Smith for the nickle spot?

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 02:59 PM
Well this is the most ass backwards way to do things. Hey everyone Denver is just a farm league team now! Has anyone stopped and thought about what if Jack Williams is good and he beats out Smith for the nickle spot?

:spit:

I hadn't even considered if we spent possibly a top 5 pick on a dime corner...

Popps
06-15-2009, 03:00 PM
This really really sucks. I think most people were very positive and upbeat about this team last season

Holy ****.

What board were you posting on? This place was a warzone. People were calling for Shanahan's head, Slowik's head and absolutely losing their **** over us fielding yet another epic-fail of a defense.

We had one of the ****tiest defenses in the league in 06, and somehow... managed to make it worse.

Maybe because our solution was Boss Bailey and Niko Ridethebenches.

Another garbage year in free agency and very little defensive help via the draft.

Add to that, the team was in the middle of the pack with regards to scoring.

I don't recall "everyone being upbeat" at all. I recall a lot of fans reaching the end of their 10 year rope of mediocrity.

I guess Bowlen was one of them.

Tombstone RJ
06-15-2009, 03:01 PM
This really really sucks. I think most people were very positive and upbeat about this team last season, and could see the trend upward happening.

Franchise QB being developed
Play makers at both WR spots
Great Young Left Tackle in place
Very solid line that showed sign of being the best in the league
Top notch talent at TE spot
Lots of cap room in place to get the defense players we needed
A good draft and FA and this team was set for the next 5 years.
Now this.

And yet, this dynasty-in-waiting went 8-8, missed the playoffs for the third straight year and pissed away a post season birth where they only needed to win 1 of their final 3 games.

And when Bowlen confronted Shanny about Slowick, well, the rest is history as they say...

DBroncos4life
06-15-2009, 03:05 PM
:spit:

I hadn't even considered if we spent possibly a top 5 pick on a dime corner...

Every time you read something Jack Williams is making a play. There is a chance Mother ****ing Williams could be good just like Hixon ;D

bpc
06-15-2009, 03:06 PM
Holy ****.

What board were you posting on? This place was a warzone. People were calling for Shanahan's head, Slowik's head and absolutely losing their **** over us fielding yet another epic-fail of a defense.

We had one of the ****tiest defenses in the league in 06, and somehow... managed to make it worse.

Maybe because our solution was Boss Bailey and Niko Ridethebenches.

Another garbage year in free agency and very little defensive help via the draft.

Add to that, the team was in the middle of the pack with regards to scoring.

I don't recall "everyone being upbeat" at all. I recall a lot of fans reaching the end of their 10 year rope of mediocrity.

I guess Bowlen was one of them.

... Bowlen jumped on your bandwagon and now we have this.

bpc
06-15-2009, 03:07 PM
Well this is the most ass backwards way to do things. Hey everyone Denver is just a farm league team now! Has anyone stopped and thought about what if Jack Williams is good and he beats out Smith for the nickle spot?

Compared with this offseason, that would be called par for the course.

Hotrod
06-15-2009, 03:09 PM
:spit:

I hadn't even considered if we spent possibly a top 5 pick on a dime corner...

Are we sure McD was not sent here by Mr. Craft

elsid13
06-15-2009, 03:14 PM
Are we sure McD was not sent here by Mr. Craft

No this is **** up of our own doing.

elsid13
06-15-2009, 03:16 PM
Well this is the most ass backwards way to do things. Hey everyone Denver is just a farm league team now! Has anyone stopped and thought about what if Jack Williams is good and he beats out Smith for the nickle spot?

It would not be surprising. Williams has talent but he needed to learn the pro game and move from the weird SS/C rover role he played in college into a traditional corner slot. That transition takes time but you could see flashes of his ability during last preseason.

rastaman
06-15-2009, 03:17 PM
This really really sucks. I think most people were very positive and upbeat about this team last season, and could see the trend upward happening.

Franchise QB being developed
Play makers at both WR spots
Great Young Left Tackle in place
Very solid line that showed sign of being the best in the league
Top notch talent at TE spot
Lots of cap room in place to get the defense players we needed
A good draft and FA and this team was set for the next 5 years.
Now this.

BINGO!!!

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 03:19 PM
Are we sure McD was not sent here by Mr. Craft

I brought that up after he signed his offensive staff.

bpc
06-15-2009, 03:25 PM
This really really sucks. I think most people were very positive and upbeat about this team last season, and could see the trend upward happening.

Franchise QB being developed
Play makers at both WR spots
Great Young Left Tackle in place
Very solid line that showed sign of being the best in the league
Top notch talent at TE spot
Lots of cap room in place to get the defense players we needed
A good draft and FA and this team was set for the next 5 years.
Now this.

[[[RABID SHANNY HATER VOICE]]]

" NO SIR, NO YOU DON'T! DON'T EVEN TRY TO BRING UP THE SOLID PIECES WE HAD IN PLACE! THAT WAS SHAN-RANAHAN VOODOO WHICH MADE YOU THINK THOSE GUYS WERE ANY GOOD! HOW ABOUT THAT DEFENSE?! HOW ABOUT THAT DEFENSE? THAT DEFENSE WHICH PLAYED A MAJORITY OF THE YEAR WITHOUT IT'S TWO BEST PLAYERS? HOW CRAPPY WERE THEY?! DOESN'T MATTER WHAT DENVER WOULD HAVE DONE, THEY STILL WAS HAVE SUCKED. AND F CUTLER, HE WILL NEVER BE JAKE THE SNAKE b****EZ!!!! JAKE NEVER HAD TO PICK UP ANY PART OF THE TEAM ON HIS BACK AND MORE OFTEN THAN NOT HE FELL INTO HIS WINS BUT THAT STILL MAKES HIM 1/3 AS TALENTED AS JAY BUT HAVING 3 TIMES AS MANY WINS! JAKE IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE GOD'S GIFT TO BROKEBACK BRONCO FANS, LEFT HANDED QB's AND HALLBALL PLAYERS! "

QFT.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-15-2009, 03:26 PM
:spit:

I hadn't even considered if we spent possibly a top 5 pick on a dime corner...

Everytime someone mentions Smith, they demote his talent. First it's nickel, now dime....i bet he's starting by next year

bpc
06-15-2009, 03:26 PM
I brought that up after he signed his offensive staff.

I brought that up after he lifted his HS JV coaching brother to be the OC next season.

PaintballCLE
06-15-2009, 03:27 PM
so basically what it comes down to is that Shanny let the "above average" players do anything, now that we have a real coach who wants to treat this as a "whole team" they all are getting their panties in a bunch and wanting to leave?

**** them then. Let them go.

I would rather have the broncos suck for a few years and get players here who are into the team concept instead of having so called above average players being little bitches leading us to a (7-9, 8-8, 9-7)- take your pick - record.

The broncos won the SB in 97-98 because of the team that was already there before shanny took over. He hasn't won **** since. And now we are starting to find out why.......he used to let his players bitch slap him.

**** Cutler, **** Marshall, **** Shanny, and **** all of you who disagree! LOL

bpc
06-15-2009, 03:27 PM
Everytime someone mentions Smith, they demote his talent. First it's nickel, now dime....i bet he's starting by next year

He'll have to have the equivalent of Champ Bailey's career to offset the type of player we are going to miss in the top 5 next year by trading our 1st round pick.

We all wish for that to be the case... most likely it will not.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 03:28 PM
so basically what it comes down to is that Shanny let the "above average" players do anything, now that we have a real coach who wants to treat this as a "whole team" they all are getting their panties in a bunch and wanting to leave?

**** them then. Let them go.

I would rather have the broncos suck for a few years and get players here who are into the team concept instead of having so called above average players being little b****es leading us to a (7-9, 8-8, 9-7)- take your pick - record.

The broncos won the SB in 97-98 because of the team that was already there before shanny took over. He hasn't won **** since. And now we are starting to find out why.......he used to let his players b**** slap him.

**** Cutler, **** Marshall, **** Shanny, and **** all of you who disagree! LOL

Hurray for wild speculation. Hilarious!

rastaman
06-15-2009, 03:29 PM
I'm a huge Boldin fan. Fast, strong as an ox, goes over the middle, blocks, teammates love him,..the complete package for a WR if you ask me.

But, he's been demanding a new deal for what...almost 2 years now? Isn;t that a headache, albeit a small one?

Its not a headache if you're winning!

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 03:29 PM
He'll have to have the equivalent of Champ Bailey's career to offset the type of player we are going to miss in the top 5 next year by trading our 1st round pick.

We all wish for that to be the case... most likely it will not.

This.

First round corner crops have been pretty ****ing stellar on the whole outside of Pacman Jones.

Even Antrel Rolle was able to find a way to contribute on the field at a high level as a safety last season. Though he's back on his way to CB in all likelihood.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-15-2009, 03:32 PM
He'll have to have the equivalent of Champ Bailey's career to offset the type of player we are going to miss in the top 5 next year by trading our 1st round pick.

We all wish for that to be the case... most likely it will not.

This assumes 1) the pick is in the top 5 and 2) the player we might have picked actually does something with his career. If Alphonso Smith becomes a probowler, you cant hate onit. Thats why we have to WAIT AND SEE

rastaman
06-15-2009, 03:33 PM
so basically what it comes down to is that Shanny let the "above average" players do anything, now that we have a real coach who wants to treat this as a "whole team" they all are getting their panties in a bunch and wanting to leave?

**** them then. Let them go.

I would rather have the broncos suck for a few years and get players here who are into the team concept instead of having so called above average players being little b****es leading us to a (7-9, 8-8, 9-7)- take your pick - record.

The broncos won the SB in 97-98 because of the team that was already there before shanny took over. He hasn't won **** since. And now we are starting to find out why.......he used to let his players b**** slap him.

**** Cutler, **** Marshall, **** Shanny, and **** all of you who disagree! LOL

So whats your prediction? Will McD replicate Shanny's first 4 seasons in 6 years or Shanny's last 4 seasons during his first 4 years as the head coach????

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 03:35 PM
This assumes 1) the pick is in the top 5 and 2) the player we might have picked actually does something with his career. If Alphonso Smith becomes a probowler, you cant hate onit. Thats why we have to WAIT AND SEE

Next year is a very strong draft. A guy like Spikes or Cody alone can do great things for a defense.

Please make a list of 5'9 probowl CBs in recent history.

rastaman
06-15-2009, 03:39 PM
Eddie Royal
Jabar Gaffney
Brandon Stokley

Your 2009 Boncos Starting WRs.

Stokely can't stay healthy for 16 weeks....so that leaves us only Royal and journeyman Gaffney. Miracle McDaniel's sure has a lot of miracles to pull out of his AZZ thats for sure.

Hotrod
06-15-2009, 03:40 PM
Stokely can't stay healthy for 16 weeks....so that leaves us only Royal and journeyman Gaffney. Miracle McDaniel's sure has a lot of miracles to pull out of his AZZ thats for sure.

I love Royal but does anyone really think he can match last season without BMarsh on the other side of him.

bpc
06-15-2009, 03:41 PM
This assumes 1) the pick is in the top 5 and 2) the player we might have picked actually does something with his career. If Alphonso Smith becomes a probowler, you cant hate onit. Thats why we have to WAIT AND SEE

It most likely will be a top 5, guaranteed top 10 and with that you can basically have your pick of the litter in a VERY deep draft.

The last portion of what you just said totally repeated what I just said about it.

crowebomber
06-15-2009, 03:43 PM
Next year is a very strong draft. A guy like Spikes or Cody alone can do great things for a defense.

Please make a list of 5'9 probowl CBs in recent history.

2009:
Antoine Winfield 5-9
Asante Samuel 5-10

I don't have time to keep going back, but there are plenty. The "short corners suck" argument is tired and unfounded. How did Lenny Walls work out for us?

rastaman
06-15-2009, 03:43 PM
I love Royal but does anyone really think he can match last season without BMarsh on the other side of him.

NOPE! Maybe McDaniel's can suit up opposite of Royal to help take some pressure off the absence of BMarsh. :thumbsup:

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 03:43 PM
I love Royal but does anyone really think he can match last season without BMarsh on the other side of him.

Note that Brandon was just as successful with Glen Martinez opposite him as Eddie :wiggle:

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 03:44 PM
2009:
Antoine Winfield 5-9
Asante Samuel 5-10

I don't have time to keep going back, but there are plenty. The "short corners suck" argument is tired and unfounded. How did Lenny Walls work out for us?

By all means, keep going back. And then post the ratio.

Ramathorn
06-15-2009, 03:44 PM
I'm on hold with directv now......need to find out what the last possible day to cancel the Sunday Ticket and Superfan packages is. If anyone else has already gotten this answer, please let me know ASAP so I don't have to listen to Michael Bolton's version of When a Man Loves a Woman for the 16 time in a row while on hold.

You can cancel day before reg season starts. If you do, they will try to make you keep it by offering you superfan for free and 10 off your bill for a year, at least they did for me. It was a sweet deal!!

24champ
06-15-2009, 03:45 PM
Not surprised.

Also wouldn't be surprised to see Casey Wiegman call it a career in a couple weeks.

If I told everyone on the OM that Shanny was going to get fired, Cutler gets traded, Marshall gets traded, trade a future first round pick for a cornerback in the second round....everyone would laugh at me and say it would never happen.

This is unprecedented (sp?) In Broncos history firing.the best coach in its history, trading a young pro-bowler QB, on the verge of losing its other two pro-bowlers. Meanwhile the biggest problem on the team hasn't been addressed and largely ignored. Does this bother anyone?

DBroncos4life
06-15-2009, 03:45 PM
Next year is a very strong draft. A guy like Spikes or Cody alone can do great things for a defense.

Please make a list of 5'9 probowl CBs in recent history.

While I agree to a point I think Winfield is over looked more often then not in the pro bowl voting.

rastaman
06-15-2009, 03:46 PM
2009:
Antoine Winfield 5-9
Asante Samuel 5-10

I don't have time to keep going back, but there are plenty. The "short corners suck" argument is tired and unfounded. How did Lenny Walls work out for us?

Sorry, but those "Shorty" CB's are loosing ground to the new generation of WR's who are 6'4-230 plus who can run. Its child abuse just waiting to happen.

Who wins 9 times out of 10 if Asante must go up against Terrell Owens????

crowebomber
06-15-2009, 03:47 PM
By all means, keep going back. And then post the ratio.


Also last year:
Cortland Finnegan 5-10
Ronde Barber 5-10

So that's 4 at 5-10 or under in 2009.

rastaman
06-15-2009, 03:50 PM
Not surprised.

Also wouldn't be surprised to see Casey Wiegman call it a career in a couple weeks.

If I told everyone on the OM that Shanny was going to get fired, Cutler gets traded, Marshall gets traded, trade a future first round pick for a cornerback in the second round....everyone would laugh at me and say it would never happen.

This is unprecedented (sp?) In Broncos history firing.the best coach in its history, trading a young pro-bowler QB, on the verge of losing its other two pro-bowlers. Meanwhile the biggest problem on the team hasn't been addressed and largely ignored. Does this bother anyone?

I have total faith that Napoleon McDaniels will be back in NE as their OC four years after he turns the Denver Broncos into the Detroit Lions of the NFL.

If you guys thought Bowlen was hitting the sauce too hard in the past! Wait until he gets a taste of what McDaniels has in store.

hookemhess
06-15-2009, 03:52 PM
Can't you all see it's a Belichick plot to destroy the competition? All of Belichick's coaches have tanked AFC teams.

crowebomber
06-15-2009, 03:52 PM
Sorry, but those "Shorty" CB's are loosing ground to the new generation of WR's who are 6'4-230 plus who can run. Its child abuse just waiting to happen.

Who wins 9 times out of 10 if Asante must go up against Terrell Owens????

I'll agree that there are mismatches in certain situations, but that goes both ways. There are plenty of small receivers who abuse bigger, less agile corners all the time. The fact remains that there are not just a couple but many small corners who have played at the probowl level in recent years.

dbfan4life
06-15-2009, 03:53 PM
Not surprised.

Also wouldn't be surprised to see Casey Wiegman call it a career in a couple weeks.

If I told everyone on the OM that Shanny was going to get fired, Cutler gets traded, Marshall gets traded, trade a future first round pick for a cornerback in the second round....everyone would laugh at me and say it would never happen.

This is unprecedented (sp?) In Broncos history firing.the best coach in its history, trading a young pro-bowler QB, on the verge of losing its other two pro-bowlers. Meanwhile the biggest problem on the team hasn't been addressed and largely ignored. Does this bother anyone?

No. As long as we have a bunch of JV players here that want to lose as a team, we are better off. :puff:

broncofan2438
06-15-2009, 03:53 PM
I was getting excited that Basketball season was over and we were that much closer to football season.....but f this....its Monday, bmarsh wants out and we just signed Lloyd???? Perfect

rastaman
06-15-2009, 03:54 PM
OMG! What else can go wrong? Maybe Elway will denounce that he ever played for the Broncos and that he always wanted to be a raider.

Bit of History:

Elway would have been a Raider had the NFL not been pissed at Al Davis for moving the Raiders down to LA!! My O My how history would have been different.

rastaman
06-15-2009, 04:00 PM
I'll agree that there are mismatches in certain situations, but that goes both ways. There are plenty of small receivers who abuse bigger, less agile corners all the time. The fact remains that there are not just a couple but many small corners who have played at the probowl level in recent years.

Okay fair enough. However, the WR's in the NFL are getting taller, bigger, and faster; while the CB's on average have yet to average 6'1-195 or 200lbs.

In the next 4 or 5 years we will see Freak type WR's of 6'5 and 6'6 with basketball backgrounds who will dominate the 5'10 to 6'0 cornerbacks in the NFL. This is where the trend is leading to.

DBroncos4life
06-15-2009, 04:03 PM
I'll agree that there are mismatches in certain situations, but that goes both ways. There are plenty of small receivers who abuse bigger, less agile corners all the time. The fact remains that there are not just a couple but many small corners who have played at the probowl level in recent years.


Dre' Bly is a very good DB and he isn't very tall either. I think you are better off being 6ft atleast but still they can be good shorter.

DBroncos4life
06-15-2009, 04:06 PM
Okay fair enough. However, the WR's in the NFL are getting taller, bigger, and faster; while the CB's on average have yet to average 6'1-195 or 200lbs.

In the next 4 or 5 years we will see Freak type WR's of 6'5 and 6'6 with basketball backgrounds who will dominate the 5'10 to 6'0 cornerbacks in the NFL. This is where the trend is leading to.

Tell that to Welker, Royal, and DeSean Jackson. There was a article not less then a week ago about how the smaller WRs are harder to cover because they are shifty and hard to jam. While the bigger guys just try and out muscle you.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 04:14 PM
Tell that to Welker, Royal, and DeSean Jackson. There was a article not less then a week ago about how the smaller WRs are harder to cover because they are shifty and hard to jam. While the bigger guys just try and out muscle you.

One article that uses 2 players as an example of a new "trend".

Meanwhile, GMs disagree:

Heyward Bey is 6'2 210
Crabtree is 6'3 214
Maclin is 6'1 200

The Joker
06-15-2009, 04:18 PM
This.

First round corner crops have been pretty ****ing stellar on the whole outside of Pacman Jones.

Even Antrel Rolle was able to find a way to contribute on the field at a high level as a safety last season. Though he's back on his way to CB in all likelihood.

Pacman Jones, Carlos Rogers, Antrel Rolle, DeAngelo Hall, Dunta Robinson, Terrence Newman and Quentin Jammer.

This is a list of corners taken in the Top 10 in the draft this century.

About as stellar as a cloudy sky to be honest.

If Smith becomes a good starter, then the trade is fine. The Champ Bailey level career nonsense is laughable, he's arguably the best CB the NFL has ever seen.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 04:22 PM
Also last year:
Cortland Finnegan 5-10
Ronde Barber 5-10

So that's 4 at 5-10 or under in 2009.

Fair enough. Your point is able to be made because I phrased my post wrong though.

Out of all those names, Finnegan is the one deserving of the probowl last season.

Barber, Antoine, and Samuel (although he played well in the playoffs before the AZ game), went on reputation, in my opinion.

The best young corners in this game, once again, in my opinion, are as follows (in no particular order):

Rogers-Cromartie 6'2
Asomugha 6'2
Ross 6'
antonio cromartie 6'2

I'm high on Darrelle Revis too... he's only 5'11. This year we'll see if he belongs in that group.

Both first round CBs this past season, in a weak draft, went higher than Alphonso pretty much solely due to their height (both are 6 flat), so, yes, a couple inches makes a world of difference in today's match-up NFL.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 04:24 PM
Pacman Jones, Carlos Rogers, Antrel Rolle, DeAngelo Hall, Dunta Robinson, Terrence Newman and Quentin Jammer.

This is a list of corners taken in the Top 10 in the draft this century.

About as stellar as a cloudy sky to be honest.

If Smith becomes a good starter, then the trade is fine. The Champ Bailey level career nonsense is laughable, he's arguably the best CB the NFL has ever seen.

See my previous post. You went out of your way to exclude those guys by putting in additional caveats of their draft position that I never mentioned.

PS. Rogers, Dunta Robinson and Newman are all currently outstanding players. Jammer is solid and Rolle played great as a safety.

That leaves the 2 flavor clowns Pacman and Hall...

The Joker
06-15-2009, 04:28 PM
See my previous post. You went out of your way to exclude those guys by putting in additional caveats of their draft position that I never mentioned.

PS. Rogers, Dunta Robinson and Newman are all currently outstanding players. Jammer is solid and Rolle played great as a safety.

That leaves the 2 flavor clowns Pacman and Hall...

No, I simply listed the CB's picked in the top 10 this century. You know, where Seattle will be picking next year.

Point is none of them are exactly superstars. Good players, but none that should be mentioned in the same discussion as a guy like Champ.

TonyR
06-15-2009, 04:39 PM
This really really sucks. I think most people were very positive and upbeat about this team last season, and could see the trend upward happening.


What, you mean the "upward trend" that saw this team lose it's last 3 games, including a 52-21 thrashing at the hands of San Diego, blowing the division lead and a playoff birth in the process? THAT upward trend? Come out of the cocoon little butterfly! It's a big, scary world out here in reality-ville!

This might be some of the best unintentional comedy I've every read here. Just unbelievable. And then a bunch of dopes actually agree with you. Too funny.

TonyR
06-15-2009, 04:43 PM
Note that Brandon was just as successful with Glen Martinez opposite him as Eddie :wiggle:

Eddie Royal, 9/8/08, without Brandon Marshall playing: 9-146-1, in a 41-14 win. An aberration? Perhaps. But this does show that things aren't quite as bleak as some are making it out to be.

We're much better with Brandon, and I certainly don't want to lose the guy, but the show would go on without him. Just as it would if he were injured or suspended, both of which are possible scenarios.

oubronco
06-15-2009, 04:45 PM
Eddie Royal, 9/8/08, without Brandon Marshall playing: 9-146-1, in a 41-14 win. An aberration? Perhaps. But this does show that things aren't quite as bleak as some are making it out to be.

We're much better with Brandon, and I certainly don't want to lose the guy, but the show would go on without him. Just as it would if he were injured or suspended, both of which are possible scenarios.

Look up who the competition was and you will have your answer

UberBroncoMan
06-15-2009, 04:54 PM
So ****ing what - he asked to be traded. So have Ocho Cinco and Boldin and look where that got them. He can do one of two things - sit out, get fined and not make jack or grow up, get into camp, prove he can clean up his act and get paid.

Big difference is that unlike the Bengals and the Cardinals, the Broncos have actually caved in to demands (look no further than our former QB).

The Joker
06-15-2009, 04:55 PM
Look up who the competition was and you will have your answer

You mean those guys who embarrassed us at Invesco last year?

oubronco
06-15-2009, 04:56 PM
You mean those guys who embarrassed us at Invesco last year?

yes I hope it's not worse this year

gyldenlove
06-15-2009, 05:00 PM
Look up who the competition was and you will have your answer

And the QB....

TonyR
06-15-2009, 05:02 PM
And the QB....

Same QB who played in the dismal loss to the Raiders at home.

gunns
06-15-2009, 05:14 PM
At this point, I'm just exaggerating.....but much more of this and I'm sure my doctor will be ordering me not to watch them anymore.

Hell my Dr has been tellling me that often during the last 10 years.

If I were the Broncos I'd sit him on the sideline the entire year and let him see what his value is next year.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 05:26 PM
Eddie Royal, 9/8/08, without Brandon Marshall playing: 9-146-1, in a 41-14 win. An aberration? Perhaps. But this does show that things aren't quite as bleak as some are making it out to be.

We're much better with Brandon, and I certainly don't want to lose the guy, but the show would go on without him. Just as it would if he were injured or suspended, both of which are possible scenarios.

The guy covering him was playing man-up and was cut shortly after.

Did I really have to remind you of that?

gunns
06-15-2009, 05:39 PM
Eddie Royal, 9/8/08, without Brandon Marshall playing: 9-146-1, in a 41-14 win. An aberration? Perhaps. But this does show that things aren't quite as bleak as some are making it out to be.

We're much better with Brandon, and I certainly don't want to lose the guy, but the show would go on without him. Just as it would if he were injured or suspended, both of which are possible scenarios.

And in the next game, against the same opponent, at home, we got pounded. While I like Royal more than Marshall, we do need a reliable WR on the other side.

Hercules Rockefeller
06-15-2009, 05:44 PM
Eddie Royal, 9/8/08, without Brandon Marshall playing: 9-146-1, in a 41-14 win. An aberration? Perhaps. But this does show that things aren't quite as bleak as some are making it out to be.

We're much better with Brandon, and I certainly don't want to lose the guy, but the show would go on without him. Just as it would if he were injured or suspended, both of which are possible scenarios.

Yeah, that's an aberration. 1st game as a pro, no one knew what to expect from him. Royal, Stokley, and Gaffney looks like **** for a WR corps. Marshall, Royal, Stokley, and Gaffney is a great WR corps.

footstepsfrom#27
06-15-2009, 06:09 PM
I decided to skip the last 250 posts. I suppose my only question is...who else is going to ask to get off this sinking ship? I'm sure this won't be the end.

rastaman
06-15-2009, 06:12 PM
What, you mean the "upward trend" that saw this team lose it's last 3 games, including a 52-21 thrashing at the hands of San Diego, blowing the division lead and a playoff birth in the process? THAT upward trend? Come out of the cocoon little butterfly! It's a big, scary world out here in reality-ville!

This might be some of the best unintentional comedy I've every read here. Just unbelievable. And then a bunch of dopes actually agree with you. Too funny.

Yeah sure TonyR, you do mean this team lost their last 3 games b/c the Broncos absolutely had no RUNNING GAME to speak of b/c 7 RB's suffered season ending injuries!!! Can't beat SD if you can't keep drives sustained b/c you don't have a running attack. In the 52-21 blow out! I wonder if the Chargers ever respected Denver's running attack or did they just cheat on the pass!

Point is, a robust running attack keeps an opponents high scoring offense off the field, a robust running attack keeps porous bad defenses off the field, a robust running attack takes time off the clock and protects leads.

Denver lost their last 3 games and missed the playoffs b/c they had no viable running attack.....and it cost Shanny his job.

rmsanger
06-15-2009, 06:30 PM
I decided to skip the last 250 posts. I suppose my only question is...who else is going to ask to get off this sinking ship? I'm sure this won't be the end.

I'm with you... This is just the after gurgling echo after the bath water has finished draining. I'm done investing in this team emotionally for the next few seasons. My expectations will be zilch and if we finish above Detroit then I'll think of it as a victory.

TotallyScrewed
06-15-2009, 06:46 PM
Why would you stop watching the team?

Well...do you remember the Strike season? Should a few more "stars" fall from grace and leave, what team is it? What kind of game is it?

watermock
06-15-2009, 06:48 PM
Now that we have real Pros handling things, like Mr. Jameson, McDummy, The X-Man, and Nolan, I have no doubt the top 4 pick is ours...

oh wait...

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 06:50 PM
Now that we have real Pros handling things, like Mr. Jameson, McDummy, The X-Man, and Nolan, I have no doubt the top 4 pick is ours...

oh wait...

Mr Jameson...

I lol'd.

Edit: Awesome post to hit 71k on.

Bronco X
06-15-2009, 07:03 PM
Bowlen is going to have to stop acquiescing to player's trade demands. He shouldn't have with Cutler but he let his ego dictate the situation. If he keeps giving in to these demands players are going to think they can get out of their contracts any time they've got the slightest reason to be uncomfortable and the thing is going to keep spiraling out of control.

Cutler and Marshall are ego maniacal jerk offs but they are very talented football players. And you need talented football players to win. Good luck filling a team with 53 players that have enough talent to win but no me-first prima donnas among the entire lot.

Mr Chatterboodamn
06-15-2009, 07:05 PM
Good for Brandon. Since everyone is so keen on saying football is a business, let's not conveniently forget that it cuts both ways. I would want my market price too, especially if I performed like #1 overall for two years at 4th rounder money. The DURATION term of a most non-guaranteed NFL contracts is premised on an illusory promise by NFL teams to pay a player a certain amount, only if they decide to keep that player for that term. Players aren't given reciprocal contract termination rights, but they do have the ability to suspend their performance (showing up to play). In some cases, breaching a contract is the most economically efficient thing you can do...not only is it legal, it's also a widely accepted practice in many industries. From Brandon's perspective, he obviously feels that he'll be traded to a situation that will improve his value and such a trade will likely bring him a new contract as a token of good faith. His value has probably plateaued for the moment and the overall economy is growing increasingly scary, so it seems like a perfect juncture to try to get locked up long term. If you were a player, would you want to work for a coach who called you "the player"...or would jettison you despite recent substantial contributions to the team? If you have any leverage, like Cutler and Marshall, the answer is probably not. Since the new administration doesn't seem to regard PR/fan reactions in its business model and loves to fire people indiscriminately left and right, why not get the fvck out of dodge while you can?

McDaniels does not deal in good faith. Lies and other tomfoolery, everywhere. Maybe McDaniels' presentation that "blew Bowlen away" actually involved blowing Bowlen (like Annabel hasn't since lip collagen injection #237). It certainly did not project any truth...unless he somehow mentioned Cassel replacing Cutler at that meeting. I doubt it. Marshall has seen a lot more than any of us. He tried to be a good soldier for McDaniels, but obviously there is no reward for doing so unless you have no other prospects to dominate the NFL (see Orton). How many highly productive players do we need to lose before it becomes McDaniel's fault? We ain't gonna see a QB & receiver like that for a long time. I don't blame them for wanting to leave...I would too. The Broncos are no longer the same under McDaniels...so ALL bets are off.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 07:10 PM
Good for Brandon. Since everyone is so keen on saying football is a business, let's not conveniently forget that it cuts both ways. I would want my market price too, especially if I performed like #1 overall for two years at 4th rounder money. The DURATION term of a most non-guaranteed NFL contracts is premised on an illusory promise by NFL teams to pay a player a certain amount, only if they decide to keep that player for that term. Players aren't given reciprocal contract termination rights, but they do have the ability to suspend their performance (showing up to play). In some cases, breaching a contract is the most economically efficient thing you can do...not only is it legal, it's also a widely accepted practice in many industries. From Brandon's perspective, he obviously feels that he'll be traded to a situation that will improve his value and such a trade will likely bring him a new contract as a token of good faith. His value has probably plateaued for the moment and the overall economy is growing increasingly scary, so it seems like a perfect juncture to try to get locked up long term. If you were a player, would you want to work for a coach who called you "the player"...or would jettison you despite recent substantial contributions to the team? If you have any leverage, like Cutler and Marshall, the answer is probably not. Since the new administration doesn't seem to regard PR/fan reactions in its business model and loves to fire people indiscriminately left and right, why not get the f*** out of dodge while you can?

McDaniels does not deal in good faith. Lies and other tomfoolery, everywhere. Maybe McDaniels' presentation that "blew Bowlen away" actually involved blowing Bowlen (like Annabel hasn't since lip collagen injection #237). It certainly did not project any truth...unless he somehow mentioned Cassel replacing Cutler at that meeting. I doubt it. Marshall has seen a lot more than any of us. He tried to be a good soldier for McDaniels, but obviously there is no reward for doing so unless you have no other prospects to dominate the NFL (see Orton). How many highly productive players do we need to lose before it becomes McDaniel's fault? We ain't gonna see a QB & receiver like that for a long time. I don't blame them for wanting to leave...I would too. The Broncos are no longer the same under McDaniels...so ALL bets are off.

I fully endorse every syllable of this post.

SoCalBronco
06-15-2009, 07:15 PM
The front office needs to hold the line here. I would fine him until he comes in and not move him. Letting Cutler go helped create the feeling that the FO is soft and if you whine and moan you can force the issue. They need to make an example of Marshall here.

Yeah...that'll show em. Let's "show" Brandon just like we did to Jay. Then everyone will know who's in charge and we'll establish "order". We might not win any games, but at least we'll show people who's boss.

Well......showing people who's boss and 60 cents will get you a medium sized mediocre cup of coffee.

Obviously, I disagree with the premise that if they "cave" on one, it somehow will create this snowball effect of everyone wanting an extension. There's no snowball effect, here. It is on a case by case basis and it is extremely FACT INTENSIVE. The players who have premium value are the only ones that have leverage, because they are so important. Do we really believe that if we paid Jay, or if we end up paying Brandon this will lead to the Boss Baileys, Tim Crowders and Josh Barrett's of the world "demanding" things left and right? Ofcourse not. The reason is simple: Because they have little value and thus no power.

Everything revolves around value and what you bring to the table. If Boss Bailey tried to force his way to an extension, everyone in the facility would double over in laughter and they'd tell him to **** himself (rightfully so).

These people are unbelievably incompetent. Now, I realize that Marshall has had issues for some time now, even though they do not always appear to have been financial ones...things always seem to trace back to that, which is not surprising. In any case, if they find a way to blow it with Marshall like they did to Cutler, this will be beyond even the outer reaches of Epic Faildom.

We'd need a new category. We'd be in Epic Hossa territory.

http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs102.snc1/4559_91534794267_705494267_1783831_4176070_n.jpg

meangene
06-15-2009, 07:17 PM
Big difference is that unlike the Bengals and the Cardinals, the Broncos have actually caved in to demands (look no further than our former QB).

I think we have a whole lot more leverage where Brandon is concerned if, for no other reason, he is not a QB. Even Ocho Cinco came to the realization that **** doesn't work if you are not a QB. Personally, I'm ok with us unloading Marshall but only if we can get fair value for him. Ultimately, I don't see him being a Bronco long term.

rastaman
06-15-2009, 07:35 PM
I think we have a whole lot more leverage where Brandon is concerned if, for no other reason, he is not a QB. Even Ocho Cinco came to the realization that **** doesn't work if you are not a QB. Personally, I'm ok with us unloading Marshall but only if we can get fair value for him. Ultimately, I don't see him being a Bronco long term.

BMarsh and the Broncos.....just aren't a good fit at this point. Its time to part ways ASAP!

Broncos win by getting what they can for him. Broncos loose if they try to enforce FO, HC, Owner Rules! No since showing hate, revenge and who's Boss just b/c you can.

TonyR
06-15-2009, 07:39 PM
His value has probably plateaued for the moment and the overall economy is growing increasingly scary, so it seems like a perfect juncture to try to get locked up long term. If you were a player, would you want to work for a coach who called you "the player"...or would jettison you despite recent substantial contributions to the team? If you have any leverage, like Cutler and Marshall, the answer is probably not.

Yep, I'm sure, as we type, Brandon is sitting in front of his laptop doing pro formas and cash flow forecasts. Probably lots of pie charts and bar graphs. Perhaps some trend analyses.

As for McD's supposed habit of cavalierly "jettisoning" players, who has he "jettisoned"? Bowlen traded Cutler, and that's whay Cutler wanted. And now Marshall claims he wants to be traded also. McD and the Broncos had no intention to trade him. So that argument is crap.

Look, this isn't that difficult and isn't the drama you want it to be to make your sad life more interesting. The Broncos have no sinister plan to screw Brandon Marshall. The guy is currently injured and has a legal cloud hanging over his head. If he didn't he'd have a deal by now. But he does, so he's going to have to wait.

TonyR
06-15-2009, 07:43 PM
No since showing hate, revenge and who's Boss just b/c you can.

Seriously? Some of you people are really lost. This isn't personal. It's business. We've heard no stories of animosity. When Brandon is healthy and past his legal woes he'll get his deal. The Broncos would be stupid to do it any other way. Almost every team in the league would handle this the same way except maybe the Raiders, who like to take big risks on potentially damaged or compromised goods.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 07:44 PM
Yep, I'm sure, as we type, Brandon is sitting in front of his laptop doing pro formas and cash flow forecasts. Probably lots of pie charts and bar graphs. Perhaps some trend analyses.

As for McD's supposed habit of cavalierly "jettisoning" players, who has he "jettisoned"? Bowlen traded Cutler, and that's whay Cutler wanted. And now Marshall claims he wants to be traded also. McD and the Broncos had no intention to trade him. So that argument is crap.

Look, this isn't that difficult and isn't the drama you want it to be to make your sad life more interesting. The Broncos have no sinister plan to screw Brandon Marshall. The guy is currently injured and has a legal cloud hanging over his head. If he didn't he'd have a deal by now. But he does, so he's going to have to wait.

Paragraph 1: That's what agents are for

Paragraph 2: All speculation. More likely, Bowlen publicly took the heat so his head-coach could focus on his job. Keep in mind, since that fiasco, Bowlen is now present at player meetings. That should be your big tip off.

Paragraph 3: Uncalled for. Take it from me, class personified.

rastaman
06-15-2009, 07:45 PM
Good for Brandon. Since everyone is so keen on saying football is a business, let's not conveniently forget that it cuts both ways. I would want my market price too, especially if I performed like #1 overall for two years at 4th rounder money. The DURATION term of a most non-guaranteed NFL contracts is premised on an illusory promise by NFL teams to pay a player a certain amount, only if they decide to keep that player for that term. Players aren't given reciprocal contract termination rights, but they do have the ability to suspend their performance (showing up to play). In some cases, breaching a contract is the most economically efficient thing you can do...not only is it legal, it's also a widely accepted practice in many industries. From Brandon's perspective, he obviously feels that he'll be traded to a situation that will improve his value and such a trade will likely bring him a new contract as a token of good faith. His value has probably plateaued for the moment and the overall economy is growing increasingly scary, so it seems like a perfect juncture to try to get locked up long term. If you were a player, would you want to work for a coach who called you "the player"...or would jettison you despite recent substantial contributions to the team? If you have any leverage, like Cutler and Marshall, the answer is probably not. Since the new administration doesn't seem to regard PR/fan reactions in its business model and loves to fire people indiscriminately left and right, why not get the **** out of dodge while you can?

McDaniels does not deal in good faith. Lies and other tomfoolery, everywhere. Maybe McDaniels' presentation that "blew Bowlen away" actually involved blowing Bowlen (like Annabel hasn't since lip collagen injection #237). It certainly did not project any truth...unless he somehow mentioned Cassel replacing Cutler at that meeting. I doubt it. Marshall has seen a lot more than any of us. He tried to be a good soldier for McDaniels, but obviously there is no reward for doing so unless you have no other prospects to dominate the NFL (see Orton). How many highly productive players do we need to lose before it becomes McDaniel's fault? We ain't gonna see a QB & receiver like that for a long time. I don't blame them for wanting to leave...I would too. The Broncos are no longer the same under McDaniels...so ALL bets are off.

Bingo!.....the Best ***ing post I've read on this entire issue of Cutler-Marshall story with their battle with MANAGEMENT. Great Job.

rastaman
06-15-2009, 07:53 PM
Seriously? Some of you people are really lost. This isn't personal. It's business. We've heard no stories of animosity. When Brandon is healthy and past his legal woes he'll get his deal. The Broncos would be stupid to do it any other way. Almost every team in the league would handle this the same way except maybe the Raiders, who like to take big risks on potentially damaged or compromised goods.

Dude! either way you look at it, both sides had better compromise! Bowlen and McD won't win if they try to emboss they're will here. After all, neither are putting their bodies, health and careers on the line in a violent sport where on any single play you can suffer a career ending injury! Meanwhile Bowlen and McD are only giving up $$$$$$ and pride.....all of which are replaceable.

lex
06-15-2009, 08:00 PM
so basically what it comes down to is that Shanny let the "above average" players do anything, now that we have a real coach who wants to treat this as a "whole team" they all are getting their panties in a bunch and wanting to leave?

**** them then. Let them go.

I would rather have the broncos suck for a few years and get players here who are into the team concept instead of having so called above average players being little b****es leading us to a (7-9, 8-8, 9-7)- take your pick - record.

The broncos won the SB in 97-98 because of the team that was already there before shanny took over. He hasn't won **** since. And now we are starting to find out why.......he used to let his players b**** slap him.

**** Cutler, **** Marshall, **** Shanny, and **** all of you who disagree! LOL


A real coach who hasnt won a game as opposed to one who has won 2 SBs. LOL. Some of you sheep are too filled with rage to make any sense.

watermock
06-15-2009, 08:05 PM
BMarsh and the Broncos.....just aren't a good fit at this point. Its time to part ways ASAP!

Broncos win by getting what they can for him. Broncos loose if they try to enforce FO, HC, Owner Rules! No since showing hate, revenge and who's Boss just b/c you can.

So who's next? Logical step would be scheff right? Then Doom since he has never played 3/4. Might as well include Moss, since he's a 4/3.

Yep, it's time for the bubble scren to Lloyd. Up the middle to Morono, which will prove to be a very bad pick. Our line can't hold blocks in the RG. Greene would of been better and cheaper.

Natedogg
06-15-2009, 08:09 PM
Good for Brandon. Since everyone is so keen on saying football is a business, let's not conveniently forget that it cuts both ways. I would want my market price too, especially if I performed like #1 overall for two years at 4th rounder money. The DURATION term of a most non-guaranteed NFL contracts is premised on an illusory promise by NFL teams to pay a player a certain amount, only if they decide to keep that player for that term. Players aren't given reciprocal contract termination rights, but they do have the ability to suspend their performance (showing up to play). In some cases, breaching a contract is the most economically efficient thing you can do...not only is it legal, it's also a widely accepted practice in many industries. From Brandon's perspective, he obviously feels that he'll be traded to a situation that will improve his value and such a trade will likely bring him a new contract as a token of good faith. His value has probably plateaued for the moment and the overall economy is growing increasingly scary, so it seems like a perfect juncture to try to get locked up long term. If you were a player, would you want to work for a coach who called you "the player"...or would jettison you despite recent substantial contributions to the team? If you have any leverage, like Cutler and Marshall, the answer is probably not. Since the new administration doesn't seem to regard PR/fan reactions in its business model and loves to fire people indiscriminately left and right, why not get the f*** out of dodge while you can?

McDaniels does not deal in good faith. Lies and other tomfoolery, everywhere. Maybe McDaniels' presentation that "blew Bowlen away" actually involved blowing Bowlen (like Annabel hasn't since lip collagen injection #237). It certainly did not project any truth...unless he somehow mentioned Cassel replacing Cutler at that meeting. I doubt it. Marshall has seen a lot more than any of us. He tried to be a good soldier for McDaniels, but obviously there is no reward for doing so unless you have no other prospects to dominate the NFL (see Orton). How many highly productive players do we need to lose before it becomes McDaniel's fault? We ain't gonna see a QB & receiver like that for a long time. I don't blame them for wanting to leave...I would too. The Broncos are no longer the same under McDaniels...so ALL bets are off.

It its all about finagling money, then Javon Walker is an all time great, and the Redskins are the dynasty of the decade.

HEAV
06-15-2009, 08:20 PM
So who's next? Logical step would be scheff right? Then Doom since he has never played 3/4. Might as well include Moss, since he's a 4/3.

Yep, it's time for the bubble scren to Lloyd. Up the middle to Morono, which will prove to be a very bad pick. Our line can't hold blocks in the RG. Greene would of been better and cheaper.

Jezzz Mock is drunk posting again...

colonelbeef
06-15-2009, 08:37 PM
Going back to the OP, the bolded part is what bothers me the most.

And why does this make Josh or Pat a disaster? What did, or didn't, they do?

They didn't keep the biggest star and most liked player on the team. They treated Cutler like garbage and lied through their teeth, and the players are simply acting in their own best interest considering the new, soulless, directionless environment.

This is just one of many negative repurcussions to follow when you lose a 25 year old star QB brimming with charisma and confidence. You lose national games, you lose the ability to draw free agents, you lose revenue, and ultimately the edge you once enjoyed.

Maximus
06-15-2009, 09:07 PM
Sounds like a prime candidate for the Raiders!;D

footstepsfrom#27
06-15-2009, 09:11 PM
If you were a player, would you want to work for a coach who called you "the player"...or would jettison you despite recent substantial contributions to the team?
That was Parcells & TO...or did this happen here with McDaniels & Marshall and I missed it?

outdoor_miner
06-15-2009, 09:12 PM
I fully endorse every syllable of this post.

Yeah - except for those parts where he:

- completely overlooked Marshall's problems with the law
- assumed that Marshall's issues with the Broncos are entirely McDaniels doing, despite not a single word in support of this stance from Marshall or his agent (except we do know he has a huge huge problem with the medical staff, straight from Brandon's mouth)
- Claimed Marshall tried to be a "good soldier"... Guess it doesn't take much these days.
- exaggerated McDaniels' propensity for "lying" (was he personally involved in any of those meetings to know exactly what has been said by McDaniels???)
- used the word "tomfoolery" in a non-joking manner

outdoor_miner
06-15-2009, 09:18 PM
They didn't keep the biggest star and most liked player on the team. They treated Cutler like garbage and lied through their teeh, and the players are simply acting in their own best interest considering the new, soulless, directionless environment.

This is just one of many negative repurcussions to follow when you lose a 25 year old star QB brimming with charisma and confidence. You lose national games, you lose the ability to draw free agents, you lose revenue, and ultimately the edge you once enjoyed.

My God. You guys get so worked up about this stuff... Were you quivering with rage when you typed this over-dramatic crap? They "lied through their teeth" and are "soulless". Cutler was "brimming with charisma and confidence".

Listen to yourself, man! Pull yourself together!!! thwack

broncswin
06-15-2009, 09:18 PM
Good for Brandon. Since everyone is so keen on saying football is a business, let's not conveniently forget that it cuts both ways. I would want my market price too, especially if I performed like #1 overall for two years at 4th rounder money. The DURATION term of a most non-guaranteed NFL contracts is premised on an illusory promise by NFL teams to pay a player a certain amount, only if they decide to keep that player for that term. Players aren't given reciprocal contract termination rights, but they do have the ability to suspend their performance (showing up to play). In some cases, breaching a contract is the most economically efficient thing you can do...not only is it legal, it's also a widely accepted practice in many industries. From Brandon's perspective, he obviously feels that he'll be traded to a situation that will improve his value and such a trade will likely bring him a new contract as a token of good faith. His value has probably plateaued for the moment and the overall economy is growing increasingly scary, so it seems like a perfect juncture to try to get locked up long term. If you were a player, would you want to work for a coach who called you "the player"...or would jettison you despite recent substantial contributions to the team? If you have any leverage, like Cutler and Marshall, the answer is probably not. Since the new administration doesn't seem to regard PR/fan reactions in its business model and loves to fire people indiscriminately left and right, why not get the f*** out of dodge while you can?

McDaniels does not deal in good faith. Lies and other tomfoolery, everywhere. Maybe McDaniels' presentation that "blew Bowlen away" actually involved blowing Bowlen (like Annabel hasn't since lip collagen injection #237). It certainly did not project any truth...unless he somehow mentioned Cassel replacing Cutler at that meeting. I doubt it. Marshall has seen a lot more than any of us. He tried to be a good soldier for McDaniels, but obviously there is no reward for doing so unless you have no other prospects to dominate the NFL (see Orton). How many highly productive players do we need to lose before it becomes McDaniel's fault? We ain't gonna see a QB & receiver like that for a long time. I don't blame them for wanting to leave...I would too. The Broncos are no longer the same under McDaniels...so ALL bets are off.

What did those two players get us???????????? Sorry, but I will stick with this team and if it means getting rid of the a-holes so be it!!:thumbsup:

broncswin
06-15-2009, 09:19 PM
Sounds like a prime candidate for the Raiders!;D


LMAO, your right, this is where BM belongs, the place where careers die!!ROFL! ROFL!

rastaman
06-15-2009, 09:29 PM
What did those two players get us???????????? Sorry, but I will stick with this team and if it means getting rid of the a-holes so be it!!:thumbsup:

I'm with you! We have got to get rid of McDaniels as soon as possible. :rofl:

tsiguy96
06-15-2009, 09:29 PM
it is the player who signs the contract that is offered by teh team. he is an employee of the team. thus, he has to live up to his contract, and it is within his teams discretion to decide if he is living up to that contract. not his. he does have some control, however as ocho and boldin have showed, the power is with the team, not him.

kamakazi_kal
06-15-2009, 09:34 PM
I wonder what the contract was for....... maybe a 2 year extention?

broncswin
06-15-2009, 09:35 PM
I wonder what the contract was for....... maybe a 2 year extention?

Too long and too much for what this guy has proven!!

rastaman
06-15-2009, 09:36 PM
it is the player who signs the contract that is offered by teh team. he is an employee of the team. thus, he has to live up to his contract, and it is within his teams discretion to decide if he is living up to that contract. not his. he does have some control, however as ocho and boldin have showed, the power is with the team, not him.

The player doesn't have to live up to anything! If they choose not to. Teams will pay for the player if they want him bad enough! Even if that player decides not to play their best for the team they want to leave.

footstepsfrom#27
06-15-2009, 09:41 PM
Yep, I'm sure, as we type, Brandon is sitting in front of his laptop doing pro formas and cash flow forecasts. Probably lots of pie charts and bar graphs. Perhaps some trend analyses.
Actually...maybe he is. I did a little recon on his agent, Kennard McGuire, and he purports to teach his clients principles of investing their money.

kamakazi_kal
06-15-2009, 09:46 PM
Does anyone think Royal as good as he was last year will be able to carry the load at WR?

Our WR depth behind Marshall and Royal ain't so hot. Stokley is slowing and sorry but Gaffney scares nobody.

Where does that leave Orton. I was thinking the WR were gonna help him/carry him.

tsiguy96
06-15-2009, 09:53 PM
Does anyone think Royal as good as he was last year will be able to carry the load at WR?

Our WR depth behind Marshall and Royal ain't so hot. Stokley is slowing and sorry but Gaffney scares nobody.

Where does that leave Orton. I was thinking the WR were gonna help him/carry him.

depth really is not bad, we have higher quality depth than most teams in the NFL. lloyd, stokely, gaffney, jackson are all not bad at all.

watermock
06-15-2009, 09:56 PM
depth really is not bad, we have higher quality depth than most teams in the NFL. lloyd, stokely, gaffney, jackson are all not bad at all.

Especially with Orton throwing.

kamakazi_kal
06-15-2009, 09:58 PM
depth really is not bad, we have higher quality depth than most teams in the NFL. lloyd, stokely, gaffney, jackson are all not bad at all.

Yeah, but if you consider royal a true number 1 then who of that group plays 2/3 postions ...... looks average at best.

colonelbeef
06-15-2009, 09:59 PM
My God. You guys get so worked up about this stuff... Were you quivering with rage when you typed this over-dramatic crap? They "lied through their teeth" and are "soulless". Cutler was "brimming with charisma and confidence".

Listen to yourself, man! Pull yourself together!!! thwack

Quite the contrary, I am exceedingly calm. I am a logician by nature, and this is just another logical outcome to the Cutler fiasco. You think this is the end, wait till the team is 1-5 and Champ/Dawkins start questioning the intelligence of getting rid of Cutler. The we will have to watch Popps et al attack them personally, question their leadership, accuse them of being selfish players, the usual simp routine.

The Broncos just hit the iceberg. The alarms haven't even begun to sound yet, this is just the beginning. Only thing remotely interesting about this entire episode will be watching some of you choke on your words while Cutler wins in Chicago (sans new contract- maybe he really was pissed @ McDaniels for his moronic pursuit of Cassel- *gasp*) and Orton continues to be a below average QB.

kamakazi_kal
06-15-2009, 10:03 PM
Quite the contrary, I am exceedingly calm. I am a logician by nature, and this is just another logical outcome to the Cutler fiasco. You think this is the end, wait till the team is 1-5 and Champ/Dawkins start questioning the intelligence of getting rid of Cutler. The we will have to watch Popps et al attack them personally, question their leadership, accuse them of being selfish players, the usual simp routine.

The Broncos just hit the iceberg. The alarms haven't even begun to sound yet, this is just the beginning. Only thing remotely interesting about this entire episode will be watching some of you choke on your words while Cutler wins in Chicago (sans new contract- maybe he really was pissed @ McDaniels for his moronic pursuit of Cassel- *gasp*) and Orton continues to be a below average QB.

but, but, orton is a winning QB .....

footstepsfrom#27
06-15-2009, 10:05 PM
Does anyone think Royal as good as he was last year will be able to carry the load at WR?

Our WR depth behind Marshall and Royal ain't so hot. Stokley is slowing and sorry but Gaffney scares nobody.

Where does that leave Orton. I was thinking the WR were gonna help him/carry him.
Ironically, it may leave him with an offense that is somewhat simllar to what he had with the Bears. In Chicago they relied mostly on a multi-purpose running back who could both run and catch, a couple of skilled TE's and a smallish reciever who despite his KR abilities, was mostly a short yardage guy. Without Marshall, that really describes what Denver's offense is likely to look like. Eddie would be the #1 option and Scheffler/Graham would carry the rest of the load along with Moreno out of the backfield.

Interesting...one of the main arguments supporting Orton being here was that all he has to do is care-take this highly talented offense that had superior weapons to what he had in Chicago. If Marshall leaves, his situation suddenly becomes considerably more like it was in Chicago. Granted, the offensive line is better...but with new editions they made in the offseason, it's debateable by how much. Certainly that becomes even more true if Wiegman retires.

colonelbeef
06-15-2009, 10:06 PM
but, but, orton is a winning QB .....

haha

There are probably 5 people on this planet who think Kyle Orton is within striking range of Jay Cutler as an NFL QB- Mel Kiper and 4 morons on this board.

footstepsfrom#27
06-15-2009, 10:09 PM
haha

There are probably 5 people on this planet who think Kyle Orton is within striking range of Jay Cutler as an NFL QB- Mel Kiper and 4 morons on this board.
That's a bunch of BS...there are way more than 4 morons on this board. ;D

outdoor_miner
06-15-2009, 10:16 PM
Quite the contrary, I am exceedingly calm. I am a logician by nature, and this is just another logical outcome to the Cutler fiasco. You think this is the end, wait till the team is 1-5 and Champ/Dawkins start questioning the intelligence of getting rid of Cutler. The we will have to watch Popps et al attack them personally, question their leadership, accuse them of being selfish players, the usual simp routine.

The Broncos just hit the iceberg. The alarms haven't even begun to sound yet, this is just the beginning. Only thing remotely interesting about this entire episode will be watching some of you choke on your words while Cutler wins in Chicago (sans new contract- maybe he really was pissed @ McDaniels for his moronic pursuit of Cassel- *gasp*) and Orton continues to be a below average QB.

eh - I was just yanking your chain. I called Cutler a "dbag frat boy wussy" or something in another thread, so I'm just as guilty (although, mine wasn't nearly as emo)... :yayaya:

I, too, would consider myself a logician. However, unlike you, I have no idea what will happen. I think McDaniels is a good offensive coach and that Nolan is a good defensive coach. I think that Cutler was over-rated here, and that he is a talented prima-donna. I know that his act was already starting to wear thin with me, and by the time he was traded, I was glad his whiny, entitled ass was gone. I think he will do ok in Chicago, but not become a top 3 qb in the league. I think the Broncos have taken a step back talent-wise this offseason with the loss of Cutler, but if implemented properly, McDaniels' philosophy can succeed. I know I would rather root for a group of team-first, high character players, rather than me-first entitled a-holes. I think a lot of the new players fall in the former category, and that Cutler and Marshall fall in the latter. I know that you don't really know what will happen, you only think you do. Lastly, I think your skills as a logician may be lacking if you are already so sure of the outcome, despite never having seen the team on the field.

Just kidding about that last part - you are probably a wonderful logician.

watermock
06-15-2009, 11:41 PM
The backpedaling has allready begun, what happened to let the games begin?

5-11 and Seattle picks.

And no, we won't pick a QB@ 20.

watermock
06-15-2009, 11:45 PM
I called Cutler a "dbag frat boy wussy" or something in another thread, so I'm just as guilty (although, mine wasn't nearly as emo)...
.

tsiguy96
06-15-2009, 11:48 PM
Ironically, it may leave him with an offense that is somewhat simllar to what he had with the Bears. In Chicago they relied mostly on a multi-purpose running back who could both run and catch, a couple of skilled TE's and a smallish reciever who despite his KR abilities, was mostly a short yardage guy. Without Marshall, that really describes what Denver's offense is likely to look like. Eddie would be the #1 option and Scheffler/Graham would carry the rest of the load along with Moreno out of the backfield.

Interesting...one of the main arguments supporting Orton being here was that all he has to do is care-take this highly talented offense that had superior weapons to what he had in Chicago. If Marshall leaves, his situation suddenly becomes considerably more like it was in Chicago. Granted, the offensive line is better...but with new editions they made in the offseason, it's debateable by how much. Certainly that becomes even more true if Wiegman retires.

congratulations, you just put a whole lot of "ifs" together into a single post of a very unlikely scenario! good job!

btw bears oline is nowhere near as good as the broncos. broncos had 3 guys starting in 3rd year or less.

watermock
06-16-2009, 12:10 AM
The OL was intact, as well as the TE's, WR's. and umm QB.

Let's trade up for a blocking TE and 5 other offensive reaches.

footstepsfrom#27
06-16-2009, 01:33 AM
congratulations, you just put a whole lot of "ifs" together into a single post of a very unlikely scenario! good job!

btw bears oline is nowhere near as good as the broncos. broncos had 3 guys starting in 3rd year or less.
There are two "ifs" in my post, and both are fairly strong possibilities. As to the lines...minus Wiegmann, there's considerably less difference. But you really missed the entire point.

Atwater His Ass
06-16-2009, 01:45 AM
There are two "ifs" in my post, and both are fairly strong possibilities. As to the lines...minus Wiegmann, there's considerably less difference. But you really missed the entire point.

Do really expect any difference from him? He's in the top 5 weakest posters on this board.

footstepsfrom#27
06-16-2009, 01:54 AM
Do really expect any difference from him? He's in the top 5 weakest posters on this board.
Point taken.

colonelbeef
06-16-2009, 07:21 AM
"Now one can complain that he was a poor talent evaluator but two the last three drafts have been spectacular and they were trending up in that regard.

IF allowed, they probably could had another great draft this past April, trying to fix a defense that had fallen on tough times and a lack of TO's. Let us not forget that our two best defenders, Champ Bailey and DJ Williams missed a bunch of games last year.

With the cash we had this offseason we probably still make some of the same moves in free agency. I wouldn't doubt that Dawkins would be in our secondary right now. I could see us attempting to sign Hill, possibly Goodman if we would have moved Bly. Hell, we probably try harder to sign an impact front 7 player like Bart Scott. We had 30 million under the cap to play with.

Armed with the 12th overall selection we probably still dip into the deep pool of defensive linemen. Chances are we probably still take a guy like Ayers, a versatile pass rushing physical style defender. Brian Cushing would have also been a possibility giving our LB's better depth. He could have manned the Sam, DJ at the Mike and Wesley Woodyard at the Will.

In round 2 or 3 we could have answered our HB/safety problems. LeSean McCoy and Shawn Greene were two guys I had on my radar that made a lot of sense. McBath and William Moore were both available in round 2. I projected McCoy similarly to Clinton Portis coming out and he would have been a great fit in our ZBS. He was also great catching the ball. We would have also had Torain and Hillis coming back from injury as well.

Bottom line is this draft was deep and the FO which was steadily improving could have layered the front 7/safety/HB with more selections that would have at least help us get to a respectable level in a few seasons. I stand by my comparison that we could have been playing similar to Indianapolis in a few seasons. We could have had a dominant passing attack featuring Marshall, Royal, Scheffler and Graham while our ZBS with healthy HB's could have led our team back into the top 10 of rushing. I hate Slowik but it must be argued that while his defense sucks, his overall lack of talent and injuries killed any chance for him to have success. Continued development by Marcus Thomas, Elvis Dumervil, Tim Crowder, Moss(?) along with Carlton Powell could have seen the defensive line get better and better.

Instead Bowlen f'd up the situation, ditched Shanahan, scrapped Cutler and now we're starting at ground zero. Our most explosive offensive skill player wants out and the defense is a mosh posh of mismatched parts which probably won't perform any better than it did last year. In the process he doubly screwed our future by letting the idiot, underage HC trade away our future number one pick which will eventually prolong the ****tyness we're about to engage upon.

Bright future ahead for our franchise."

All painful, all true, and worth repeating. Glossing over the injuries to Champ and DJ is stupid; both had a major impact on last season.Shanahan was 1 offseason from a 12 win team, and probably 2 from super bowl contention with a team fielding the best, youngest offense in the league. Bowlen threw away a chance at a modern dynasty. Whole thing is a shame really

outdoor_miner
06-16-2009, 07:26 AM
The backpedaling has allready begun, what happened to let the games begin?

5-11 and Seattle picks.

And no, we won't pick a QB@ 20.

huh?

Traveler
06-16-2009, 10:27 AM
Why? the team signs the bottom line just like the player.

That's why the player should negotiate his first contract by approaching it both long and short term.

Secondly, is the player an employee or not? The team controls the situation, not the other way around. Is that fair? Probably not. But that's the way it is.

As for the team, there is a negative effect for doing so. The salary cap ramifications being one of the setbacks to the team when they cut players under contract. Dead money does no team any good.

Traveler
06-16-2009, 10:29 AM
The backpedaling has allready begun, what happened to let the games begin?

5-11 and Seattle picks.

And no, we won't pick a QB@ 20.

We will if it's Tim Tebow. Couldn't resist!:~ohyah!:

broncsyanks
06-16-2009, 11:33 AM
Man so let me get this straight... We lose a hall of fame two time winning head coach..... Grab a young coach with a Napoleon complex.... Trade away our 25 yr old pro bowl QB.... Trade away a very likely top 10 draft pick for a nickelback..... Have our pro bowl and captain of the o-line center threaten to retire..... and now our 25 yr old pro bowl WR asked to be traded... MAN WE ARE SO SCREWED!!!!


i agree. but may i add. our front office really sucks here. if we let him go for draft picks then im really hating on the front office. the bottom line- great job bowlen. you had a great offense and now its falling to ****. we lose him and replace him with gaffeny or boldin. NO THANKS! just sign the guy. we drafted him lets keep him. for real. if you are a veteran are you really going to sign with a guy who HAS NEVER COACHED A GAME IN THE NFL!! dont think so. hey bowlen wake the *** up!

TonyR
06-16-2009, 12:09 PM
...we lose him and replace him with gaffeny or boldin. NO THANKS!

No thanks to Boldin? Have you followed the NFL even a little bit over the last couple of years?

vancejohnson82
06-16-2009, 12:20 PM
No thanks to Boldin? Have you followed the NFL even a little bit over the last couple of years?

Boldin is pretty much one of my top 5 favorite non-Bronco players....if we got him it would be fantastic....this is the kind of guy we should be going after

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 12:32 PM
Boldin is pretty much one of my top 5 favorite non-Bronco players....if we got him it would be fantastic....this is the kind of guy we should be going after

Once again, that still doesn't make it possible.

Because it's not. At all.

Broncoman13
06-16-2009, 12:36 PM
Once again, that still doesn't make it possible.

Because it's not. At all.

Not sure that is true. If the Broncos trade BMarsh for a couple of picks and then turn around and offer AZ a first and third (or second if necessary), you still don't think the Cards deal Boldin?

vancejohnson82
06-16-2009, 12:39 PM
Once again, that still doesn't make it possible.

Because it's not. At all.

I know its a stretch and a fantasy but I was responding to somebody who said that Boldin = Gaffney or something along those lines....

Even so....you don't think we could find a 3rd team to involve in order to move some picks around and grab boldin

Boldin + Royal = Almost Cooler than the Thundercats

Meck77
06-16-2009, 12:41 PM
Not a light rail rumor.

Friend of mine recently saw Marshall try to walk. He said it wasn't pretty. Take that how you want.

vancejohnson82
06-16-2009, 12:45 PM
Not a light rail rumor.

Friend of mine recently saw Marshall try to walk. He said it wasn't pretty. Take that how you want.

Guess that meeting went well for Bowlen....






Cue up the Surpise Buttsecks!!

Miss I.
06-16-2009, 12:46 PM
Guess that meeting went well for Bowlen....






Cue up the Surpise Buttsecks!!


bobo was there?

TheReverend
06-16-2009, 12:52 PM
Not sure that is true. If the Broncos trade BMarsh for a couple of picks and then turn around and offer AZ a first and third (or second if necessary), you still don't think the Cards deal Boldin?

Listen, not having the money means not having the money.

They don't want Anquan going anywhere and they don't have to let him. There are a good amount of things Brandon does better, and many he doesn't. Anquan knows the system, is highly regarded in the locker room, and excels at his role in the team. And sadly, Dansby's long term contract is a higher priority if they manage to clear enough cap space in the first place.

Now, dealing Brandon to some other team and then offering a first and third becomes more realistic because it clears cap space to try and crow bar a big money deal for Dansby in, BUT it does absolutely nothing about replacing an extremely productive football player all season long even immediately after sinus surgery.