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Bronco Rob
06-14-2009, 04:09 PM
Overrated, underrated available head coaches

By Dan Parr
June 14, 2009



Overrated: Mike Shanahan


Ex-Broncos coach Mike Shanahan

For some reason it seems that many view Shanahan through a 1999 prism, when he was at the top of his profession after winning back-to-back Super Bowls. Thereís no doubt heís been a great coach for a long time, but his reputation as a mastermind isnít justified by his accomplishments over the past decade. Denver has won only one playoff game since í99 and missed the playoffs the last three seasons, thanks in large part to Shanahanís poor personnel decisions, particularly on defense. The allegations that he became obsessed with his teamís statistical rankings to the point where he was berating players for not scoring enough points, even after wins, was troubling as well. Heís already been mentioned as the front-runner to take over the Redskins or the Cowboys in 2010, and he may be a perfect fit for one of those high-profile clubs. However, those teams would probably be wise not to hand the keys to Shanahan and give him free rein to make all the critical football decisions, as he did in Denver with poor results over the past 10 years.





Underrated: Marty Chokenheimer

Since getting fired by San Diego after the 2006 season, we havenít heard much about Schottenheimer. In fact, despite a .613 career winning percentage over 21 regular seasons as a head coach, it appears teams no longer have any interest in giving him a chance to interview for a job. As the league trends toward giving younger coaches ó some half the age of the 65-year-old Schottenheimer ó top jobs, Schottenheimer has become fossilized as an ancient relic of seasons past. Yet, just three seasons ago, he led the Chargers to a 14-2 record. Of course, his 5-13 record in the postseason also has something to do with teamsí lack of interest in him. As organizations look for long-term stability and moves that will fire up a fan base, taking on a 65-year-old who may only coach for a few more seasons isnít exactly an attractive option. But for a three- to four-year period, which is about how long several recently hired head coaches will last in their new jobs, taking a chance on a proven winner like Schottenheimer could jump-start a struggling team and help to build a foundation that will bring lasting success, perhaps even beyond the three- to four-year window during which heíd be manning the sidelines. Schottenheimer is no longer a marquee head-coaching candidate, but heís deserving of a bit more consideration than heís been receiving lately.






http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/Features/NFL+Features/2009/overund0614.htm


:LOL:

ZachKC
06-14-2009, 04:51 PM
Rob, haven't noticed any of your posts about Marshall on Chiefs Planet lately.

I do understand life gets busy sometimes.

Orange Blood
06-14-2009, 04:55 PM
Rob, haven't noticed any of your posts about Marshall on Chiefs Planet lately.

I do understand life gets busy sometimes.

you

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2889/313006613smayvfph.jpg (http://img37.imageshack.us/i/313006613smayvfph.jpg/)

BroncoMan4ever
06-14-2009, 05:33 PM
honestly, Mike has been overrated since after the super bowl wins.

TheReverend
06-14-2009, 05:49 PM
I love how he uses the same logic (lack of play off success) to determine that one is over-rated (despite 2 super bowls), and the other is under-rated...

PFT, you've outdone yourselves.

bpc
06-14-2009, 05:53 PM
I can't wait to see the idiots post on this thread.

Yeah, Mike sucks.

Truth is 27-28 teams would wish to have him as their head coach and crave the consistency that Denver has had year in and year out during his tenure.

Save me the bull crap about playoffs and such. We lost to the Colts twice, the Ravens, along with the Steelers. It should be argued that we weren't more talented than any of those teams. In fact the Colts probably win the super bowl if not for the Patriots the two years we lost to them. Denver has had a tough road each year. Yes, we didn't get it done but Mike took our teams farther than any other coach in the league would have given the proper circumstances.

The point also must be made that Shanahan did what he had to do to win. He tried multiple different ways to infuse talent on this roster despite having to annually draft from 20-32 most of his years in the 1st round. He didn't have the opportunities to draft franchise players each year. He threw the dice on some FA/draft picks and won some, lost some. People only remember the failed players and not the success he had through the years. Despite all that he continued to win.

Franchises like Dallas, SF, Miami, Buffalo among others lost their franchise QB's and the team sank in the win/loss column until they were ground into rebuilding clubs. Shanahan's team never rebuilt, almost to a fault. He turned losers like Griese, Beuerlein and Plummer into winners. He could create a potent rushing attack out of virtually street free agent players.

Say what you will about Cutler era but Mike had this team turning the corner again. He had one of the youngest, hottest offenses in the league. While they didn't put up as much points as they could of, that can be attributed to the same youth that was just mentioned, lack of a proven running game which could have been fixed in a offseason, and a defense that didn't force any turnovers. That unit still needed work. Although I am not a Slowik fan, we could have made some moves this offseason which would have put us in a position to have at least an average defense next year. At worst we start morphing into the Colts. What is their average wins over the past 6-8 years? 11 wins per season?

Shanahan was well on his way to having this team back where it needed to be and unfortunately because his squad challenged a year early according to his own accessment in 08', and choked, people (Bowlen, a few idiot fans) had this thought that he really needed to go.

Once again, don't waste my time with the hate fest bashing Shanahan every year since the super bowls. Shanahan did a masterful job in Denver and unfortunately, he wasn't afforded the chance to see his young team climb back up to the top as he got his knees cut out from under him. In the end it will be our loss. He'll win where ever he ends up going and we're going to see how the NFL really is especially for a small market team. Losses will mount, inconsistency will be plentiful and Bowlen has already started to reign his finances in. We'll see how we like it when we run this program like the Bidwell's do in Arizona.

Flame away.

Thank you Mike Shanahan.

Bronco Rob
06-14-2009, 06:16 PM
Rob, haven't noticed any of your posts about Marshall on Chiefs Planet lately.

I do understand life gets busy sometimes.


cheefsplanet won't let me post there....

I guess posting about the four decades of futility in KC Cheef land is a big no no....

I understand...... if ya can't beat 'em...





:yayaya:

ZachKC
06-14-2009, 06:23 PM
cheefsplanet won't let me post there....

I guess posting about the four decades of futility in KC Cheef land is a big no no....

I understand...... if ya can't beat 'em...





:yayaya:



You only posted the Marshall blip of text that is...well lets say outdated at this point.

You were trolling.

So, how is Marshall doing. I want the update.

Bob's your Information Minister
06-14-2009, 06:29 PM
The only real difference between Mike Shanahan and Marty is John Elway.

Bronx33
06-14-2009, 06:31 PM
The only real difference between Mike Shanahan and Marty is John Elway.


And 15% more nfl brains and a wicked tan.

ZachKC
06-14-2009, 06:33 PM
And 15% more nfl brains and a wicked tan.

15%

How did you go about quantifying that?

Bronco Rob
06-14-2009, 06:34 PM
I want a update.


Ohkay...

The Kansas City Chiefs haven't won a playoff game in 16 Seasons.

The Kansas City Chiefs haven't been to a Superbowl in 40 years.

The Kansas City Chiefs have won a total of 3 Playoff Games in 40 years.

The Detroit Lions have won more games over the last two seasons than the chefs and considering they went 0-16.....that says it a lot.

Oh the ENTIRE Cheefs defense had 10 sacks all of last season..

Jared Allen had 14.5 sacks by himself.....

The Chefs traded away the only offensive weapon they had left in Tony Gonzalez...

But cosidering they traded their best defensive player the season before (See Jared Allen)..

Umm oh yea..The only probowler on the O-line wants to be traded aka Brian Waters...

Geez I could go on but you get the idea...I hope...

Oh almost forgot..

The kansas city cheefs gave up the 34th overall pick in the 2009 NFL draft & 15 MILLION DOLLARS for a career back up QB..

Can you say Elvis Bono?



:thanku:

Bronx33
06-14-2009, 06:37 PM
15%

How did you go about quantifying that?


I made it up ok so basically no mathmatical formula was used but when i typed it but i did put 10% down first and changed it before i pushed submit reply.

Bronco Rob
06-14-2009, 06:38 PM
The only real difference between Mike Shanahan and Marty is John Elway.


Gee, marty had Barry Montanilow......

I guess he wasn't enough....

maybe kc shoulda traded for Steve Young instead...



Hilarious!

ZachKC
06-14-2009, 06:46 PM
Ohkay...


Geez I could go on but you get the idea...I hope...

Oh almost forgot..

The kansas city cheefs gave up the 34th overall pick in the 2009 NFL draft & 15 MILLION DOLLARS for a career back up QB..

Can you say Elvis Bono?



:thanku:

This is fun. First of all your own head coach was falling over himself to get our QB. Your description is disingenuousness at best.

This Marshall situation is gearing up to be another nugget of hilarity to the worst offseason I team could ever have. The NFL is laughing, not with you.

This upcoming Broncos team will be worse than the team last year who split the series with one of the worst Chiefs team's in the history of the franchise.

Bronx33
06-14-2009, 06:47 PM
This is fun. First of all your own head coach was falling over himself to get our QB. Your description is disingenuousness at best.

This Marshall situation is gearing up to be another nugget of hilarity to the worst offseason I team could ever have. The NFL is laughing, not with you.

This upcoming Broncos team will be worse than the team last year who split the series with one of the worst Chiefs team's in the history of the franchise.


You speak from experience LOL

Bronco Rob
06-14-2009, 06:50 PM
.

This upcoming Broncos team will be worse than the team last year who split the series with one of the worst Chiefs team's in the history of the franchise.


Funny how you glossed over the rest of my post...

Funnier the fact that a 8-8 season gets a coach fired in Denver..

BUT

In kc it takes: The Chiefs' 2008 season began with a 1-10 record, with the franchise losing 20 of 21 games over a two-year period to get a new GM & HC...



:thumbsup:

ZachKC
06-14-2009, 06:55 PM
Funny how you glossed over the rest of my post...

Funnier the fact that a 8-8 season gets a coach fired in Denver..

BUT

In kc it takes: The Chiefs' 2008 season began with a 1-10 record, with the franchise losing 20 of 21 games over a two-year period to get a new GM & HC...



:thumbsup:
Yes, I am sure that one single record was the variable. I mean its not like you guys went 7-9 the season before. I am sure it had nothing to do with the lack of post Elway playoff wins and gigantic implosion that left you out of the playoffs. Had the whole thing wrapped up but you couldn't beat the Chiefs.

And all of that fun was BEFORE this hilarious offseason. Outing of the coach, pissed off fans, decent QB out the door, new coach salivating over the Chiefs QB and having to settle for Kyle Orton, this new Marshall goodness.

It someone scripting this or something?

ZachKC
06-14-2009, 06:57 PM
BTW...

Props for the white trash Broncos version of the Wolf Shirt in your avatar. Please tell me you actually own that and wear it.

http://www.birkoph.com/Wolf_tshirt.htm

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=125&dateline=1241211021

http://www.birkoph.com/Wolf%20T%20Shirt%20Long%20Sleeve%20Mens-Large_files/borntoroamls.jpg

ZachKC
06-15-2009, 11:04 AM
BTW...

Props for the white trash Broncos version of the Wolf Shirt in your avatar. Please tell me you actually own that and wear it.

http://www.birkoph.com/Wolf_tshirt.htm

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=125&dateline=1241211021

http://www.birkoph.com/Wolf%20T%20Shirt%20Long%20Sleeve%20Mens-Large_files/borntoroamls.jpg

Bump for wolf shirt goodness.

TheReverend
06-15-2009, 11:04 AM
Bump for wolf shirt goodness.

I have a thread on this. No need to bump this one.

ZachKC
06-15-2009, 11:20 AM
I have a thread on this. No need to bump this one.

What is done is done. Hopefully you can pick up the pieces and move forward.

400HZ
06-15-2009, 11:22 AM
I still think Marty would be an ideal candidate for a rebuilding team. A team full of young players needs fundamentals hammered into them, and the only one who maybe does that better than Marty is Bill Parcells. Speaking of younger, flashier coaches... Sparano/Parcells and Mike Smith were far and away the most successful new head coaches last year and they are old school guys. Tomlin is definitely the most successful of the "next generation" head coaches, but he inherited a very talented team with well established systems and ways of doing things. It's debatable whether he would have the same success as Sparano and Smith in similar situations.

loborugger
06-15-2009, 11:48 AM
[size=3]Overrated, underrated available head coaches

By Dan Parr
June 14, 2009



Overrated: Mike Shanahan


Ex-Broncos coach Mike Shanahan

For some reason it seems that many view Shanahan through a 1999 prism, when he was at the top of his profession after winning back-to-back Super Bowls. Thereís no doubt heís been a great coach for a long time, but his reputation as a mastermind isnít justified by his accomplishments over the past decade. Denver has won only one playoff game since í99 and missed the playoffs the last three seasons, thanks in large part to Shanahanís poor personnel decisions, particularly on defense. The allegations that he became obsessed with his teamís statistical rankings to the point where he was berating players for not scoring enough points, even after wins, was troubling as well. Heís already been mentioned as the front-runner to take over the Redskins or the Cowboys in 2010, and he may be a perfect fit for one of those high-profile clubs. However, those teams would probably be wise not to hand the keys to Shanahan and give him free rein to make all the critical football decisions, as he did in Denver with poor results over the past 10 years.

Poor results? Come on. He often won 10 games a year. Granted, he lost in the playoffs - usually badly - after a late season fizzle. But, poor results? I think mediocre is a much more appropriate term here.

Tombstone RJ
06-15-2009, 11:53 AM
The article is just saying Shanny is overrated. It's not saying he's a bad coach or that he can't be successfull again. There is a difference...

Where ever Shanny goes, no owner is gonna give him the power he had with the Broncos. Ask yourself why that is.

Rock Chalk
06-15-2009, 12:42 PM
I can't wait to see the idiots post on this thread.

Yeah, Mike sucks.

Truth is 27-28 teams would wish to have him as their head coach and crave the consistency that Denver has had year in and year out during his tenure.

Save me the bull crap about playoffs and such. We lost to the Colts twice, the Ravens, along with the Steelers. It should be argued that we weren't more talented than any of those teams. In fact the Colts probably win the super bowl if not for the Patriots the two years we lost to them. Denver has had a tough road each year. Yes, we didn't get it done but Mike took our teams farther than any other coach in the league would have given the proper circumstances.

Mike took our team farther than any other coach? MIke is the reason those teams weren't good. Mike made the personell decisions. Mike hired the assistant coaching staff. Mike is the reason the teams of the past decade floundered and there is only one playoff win to show for it and 3 straight years of missing the playoffs. ALL OF THAT IS ON MIKE.

The point also must be made that Shanahan did what he had to do to win. He tried multiple different ways to infuse talent on this roster despite having to annually draft from 20-32 most of his years in the 1st round. He didn't have the opportunities to draft franchise players each year. He threw the dice on some FA/draft picks and won some, lost some. People only remember the failed players and not the success he had through the years. Despite all that he continued to win.

Mike did what he had to do to win? Mike failed to win. He is the reason Denver is in the shape it is in now, a major rebuilding effort. The defense was the worst the Broncos have ever had in my lifetime. EVER. The Special teams was never good, EVER under Mike. Mike did win, for a while. But 3 straight years of missing the playoffs says more about Mike as an overrated coach AND GM than anything.

Franchises like Dallas, SF, Miami, Buffalo among others lost their franchise QB's and the team sank in the win/loss column until they were ground into rebuilding clubs. Shanahan's team never rebuilt, almost to a fault. He turned losers like Griese, Beuerlein and Plummer into winners. He could create a potent rushing attack out of virtually street free agent players.

And that my friends, is the reason Mike is now sitting on his ass. Mike refused to rebuild when its been proven time and time again that it is a NECESSARY PART OF THE GAME. Instead, he got overpriced FA,s had horrible drafts and sank the team deeper and deeper into the hole putting off the rebuilding until, well it was too late for him.

Say what you will about Cutler era but Mike had this team turning the corner again. He had one of the youngest, hottest offenses in the league. While they didn't put up as much points as they could of, that can be attributed to the same youth that was just mentioned, lack of a proven running game which could have been fixed in a offseason, and a defense that didn't force any turnovers. That unit still needed work. Although I am not a Slowik fan, we could have made some moves this offseason which would have put us in a position to have at least an average defense next year. At worst we start morphing into the Colts. What is their average wins over the past 6-8 years? 11 wins per season?

The offense did turn the corner. Sure, 16th in points scored as awesome isnt it dip****? Meanwhile the defense was going nowhere but south. Mike had intended on keeping the worst DC in Bronco history hands down and making a mockery of what used to be a proud tradition in Denver. What makes you think any of the moves we would have made on Defense would have been better for the team? Seriously? What in Mike SHanahan's history of defensive improvements leads you to this brilliant assertion? ****tard.

Shanahan was well on his way to having this team back where it needed to be and unfortunately because his squad challenged a year early according to his own accessment in 08', and choked, people (Bowlen, a few idiot fans) had this thought that he really needed to go.

No, Shanahan was not well on his way to having the team back where it needed to be. He was going in the opposite direction.

Once again, don't waste my time with the hate fest bashing Shanahan every year since the super bowls. Shanahan did a masterful job in Denver and unfortunately, he wasn't afforded the chance to see his young team climb back up to the top as he got his knees cut out from under him. In the end it will be our loss. He'll win where ever he ends up going and we're going to see how the NFL really is especially for a small market team. Losses will mount, inconsistency will be plentiful and Bowlen has already started to reign his finances in. We'll see how we like it when we run this program like the Bidwell's do in Arizona.

Take Shanahan's cock out of your mouth and re-read that garbage you just posted. Mike was great in the 90s. Mike's power corrupted him and he became a terrible coach. Perhaps, if given an all-star QB and lucking into a great RB with the best O-line in the league and an above average defense he can get himself another Superbowl with some other franchise, barring that Mike SHanahan has proven to be worth about as much as any other coach.

bpc
06-15-2009, 01:12 PM
One thing remains true about you Alec which is you don't know the first thing about football. It's verified because you root for the ****ty J-Hawks.

Seriously though, you're an idiot. I thought you would have gotten smarter over the years but unfortunately you've only regressed in football knowledge and stupidity has consumed you.

HAT
06-15-2009, 01:27 PM
Pick your poison...

Schotty:
Can make a bad team good, (playoff eligible good) in a relatively short time frame.

Can also make a good team look very bad, specifically in the playoffs.

Shanny:
Can make a good team great, (deep playoff runs) providing most of the pieces are already in place.

Can make the most of a bad team and scratch out .500 seasons when they probably shouldn't

Orange Blood
06-15-2009, 02:39 PM
Bump for wolf shirt goodness.

Bump to laugh at Zach, the big fat pigLOL

http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/7082/2490095250085117279bhoc.jpg (http://img188.imageshack.us/i/2490095250085117279bhoc.jpg/)

Bronco Rob
06-15-2009, 05:24 PM
Yes, I am sure that one single record was the variable. I mean its not like you guys went 7-9 the season before. I am sure it had nothing to do with the lack of post Elway playoff wins and gigantic implosion that left you out of the playoffs. Had the whole thing wrapped up but you couldn't beat the Chiefs.
And all of that fun was BEFORE this hilarious offseason. Outing of the coach, pissed off fans, decent QB out the door, new coach salivating over the Chiefs QB and having to settle for Kyle Orton, this new Marshall goodness.
It someone scripting this or something?



Lemme get this straight.....Your team has gone 6-26 and in the process lost its two best players (BY CHOICE NO LESS) Jared Allen & Tony Gonzalez may lose the only probowl player on the offensive line in Brian Waters?!?

People who reside in glass double-wides shouldn't cast stones...



:thumbs: