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View Full Version : Brandon Marshall will miss the rest of camp


UberBroncoMan
06-13-2009, 10:36 AM
http://community.kdvr.com/_MARSHALL-PLAN-Scheduled-to-Miss-the-Remainder-of-Camp/BLOG/347261/96399.html;jsessionid=84B48A042230A34FD1004FFB426D 598B?as=96399

Basically he's now officially a holdout.

Way to go douchebag. You couldn't just pull a Casey Wiegmann and show the **** up to camp and prove you're worth investing in.

Paladin
06-13-2009, 10:39 AM
Quitler got away with it, why not him?

How about this guy for Boldin, straight up?

Popps
06-13-2009, 10:41 AM
But, I can't think of ANY reason we couldn't give Brandon a massive contract. Can you, guys? I mean, he's practically void of any risk. Make him the highest paid WR in the league!

Dukes
06-13-2009, 10:42 AM
I'm on my last nerve with this douche

UberBroncoMan
06-13-2009, 10:42 AM
Quitler got away with it, why not him?

How about this guy for Boldin, straight up?

lol... we can't afford Boldin. That guy wants 10 mill a year. Why trade Marshall and pay a guy who's older even more than what Marshall would get in all likelihood. The Cardinals are loaded with caproom compared to us and even they won't pay Boldin.

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 10:45 AM
A guy who has been arrested numerous times "accidentially" put his hand through an entertainment center and he wants to get a hefty contract? Sad when people with extreme talent lack any semblance of a brain.

UberBroncoMan
06-13-2009, 10:46 AM
But, I can't think of ANY reason we couldn't give Brandon a massive contract. Can you, guys? I mean, he's practically void of any risk. Make him the highest paid WR in the league!

The ****er is in a different world. It takes a complete diva to be so blind to one's own incompetence the way Marshall is. With all the **** he's done he needs to prove he's worth the money before demanding it.

Work hard and not get into trouble

???

Profit


in his mind it's


Profit

???

Work hard but eventually beat another woman.

Popps
06-13-2009, 10:47 AM
like this anonymous NFL agent who told FOX31 Sports this the same day:

“Pat Bowlen needs to tell Brandon, ‘You’re making $2.2 million dollars. I could have thrown you to the [edit] wolves 15 times already. Now shut-up and play.’ The Broncos would be complete idiots if they acquiesce to his demands.”

SonOfLe-loLang
06-13-2009, 10:49 AM
We don't know how much he's asking for. If he's asking to be the highest paid receiver in the league, that would be a little ridiculous all things considered, but c'mon, the guy does deserve a raise. He's really making peanuts.

elsid13
06-13-2009, 10:50 AM
So we are crucifying a guy that wasn't going participate anyway on 3 day mini camp. It business, and with risk of injury I can understand him pushing for a new deal now, especial with last two season of performance.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 10:52 AM
lol... we can't afford Boldin. That guy wants 10 mill a year. Why trade Marshall and pay a guy who's older even more than what Marshall would get in all likelihood. The Cardinals are loaded with caproom compared to us and even they won't pay Boldin.

Not when they're also trying to work out a long term deal for Dansby and just finished a contract for Adrian Wilson that pays him what he deserves as well.

Popps
06-13-2009, 10:52 AM
According to the source, there was an “affinity,” expressed for Marshall during their meeting, and a certain level of respect for the Pro Bowl wide receiver emanated during this conversation for the simple fact that Marshall was actually there in the flesh addressing his ultimate boss-unlike former Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler who chose not to do so several inopportune times.

Wow, Marshall didn't bring his binky and his daddy to the meeting?

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 10:54 AM
According to the source, there was an “affinity,” expressed for Marshall during their meeting, and a certain level of respect for the Pro Bowl wide receiver emanated during this conversation for the simple fact that Marshall was actually there in the flesh addressing his ultimate boss-unlike former Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler who chose not to do so several inopportune times.

Wow, Marshall didn't bring his binky and his daddy to the meeting?

Yet Jay got exactly what he wanted... down to the exact team...

cutthemdown
06-13-2009, 10:54 AM
Broncos should play hardball with Marshal to stem the bleeding. At some point make players realize they can't just get a ticket out of town as easy as Cutler did. If he wants to sit the yr fine let him sit. Fine him, get his bonus money, whatever.

Punisher
06-13-2009, 10:54 AM
http://aeongraphix.com/a/a/circus3.gif

Punisher
06-13-2009, 10:55 AM
Trade him for Ngata and a 3rd round pick...

meangene
06-13-2009, 10:55 AM
lol... we can't afford Boldin. That guy wants 10 mill a year. Why trade Marshall and pay a guy who's older even more than what Marshall would get in all likelihood. The Cardinals are loaded with caproom compared to us and even they won't pay Boldin.

I think his contract demands have reduced some and I think he would be thrilled just to get out of Arizona and get something close to what he was asking. The Cards already have too much money tied up in receivers to give him fair value and other contract issues that may be more important to them - Dansby, Dockett. Boldin is hardly over the hill and carries none of the off field baggage that Marshall does. I don't think he has ever actually held out has he? He is much less of a risk than Marshall. If we can get him in a trade for a reasonable price, I say do it.

UberBroncoMan
06-13-2009, 10:57 AM
Yet Jay got exactly what he wanted... down to the exact team...

What's sad is that this is true.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 11:00 AM
What's sad is that this is true.

We sure showed that cry baby who's boss!

Ayers will have to be Shawne Merriman, and next years pick will have to be similarly epic for this to be worth it.

Hogan11
06-13-2009, 11:00 AM
Punch his ticket.....he'll be with his buddy Jay soon enough

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 11:03 AM
We sure showed that cry baby who's boss!

Ayers will have to be Shawne Merriman, and next years pick will have to be similarly epic for this to be worth it.

Getting rid of a drunk POS who literally is missed by 2 people in the locker room already has given a ROI.

BMarsh615
06-13-2009, 11:03 AM
I hate Josh McDaniels. Worst thing to ever happen to this team.

Florida_Bronco
06-13-2009, 11:03 AM
Broncos should play hardball with Marshal to stem the bleeding. At some point make players realize they can't just get a ticket out of town as easy as Cutler did. If he wants to sit the yr fine let him sit. Fine him, get his bonus money, whatever.

I don't think we're reaching hardball type waters here...yet.

lex
06-13-2009, 11:04 AM
"Its a business"

Oh, the hypocrisy.

Popps
06-13-2009, 11:05 AM
I hate Josh McDaniels. Worst thing to ever happen to this team.

Hilarious!

I know. Josh making Brandon beat all of those women and get arrested 300 times really brought the team down.

Now, he's making him hold out!

****ing McPoopface!!!

gunns
06-13-2009, 11:05 AM
I guess Baby TO wasn't too far off the mark.

Punisher
06-13-2009, 11:06 AM
I hate Josh McDaniels. Worst thing to ever happen to this team.

Worst thing to happen to this team was Jay Cutler he turned his back on us.

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 11:07 AM
Hilarious!

I know. Josh making Brandon beat all of those women and get arrested 300 times really brought the team down.

Now, he's making him hold out!

****ing McPoopface!!!

Whats sad is this isn't even McD this time. I think McD learned a lot from the mistakes he made dealing with Cutleaf.

He handled it much better, he acknowledged there was differences but wouldn't go into detail. He said they will meet and have met. This has way more of a chance to work than the first tantrum.

Hogan11
06-13-2009, 11:09 AM
I guess Baby TO wasn't too far off the mark.

Divas are always nothing but trouble. Sooner or later, they all go down this path. Even his timing for this horseshat is not surprising at all.

ludo21
06-13-2009, 11:10 AM
he deserves a raise, pay the man.

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 11:11 AM
he deserves a raise, pay the man.

Hilarious!

One slip up from a minimum 8 game suspension with a numb hand and he deserves a pay raise.

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

Punisher
06-13-2009, 11:12 AM
Luckily Eddie Royal has a Rod Smith type attitude

BMarsh615
06-13-2009, 11:12 AM
Hilarious!

I know. Josh making Brandon beat all of those women and get arrested 300 times really brought the team down.

Now, he's making him hold out!

****ing McPoopface!!!

When this team goes 2-14 you won't be laughing.

BMarsh615
06-13-2009, 11:14 AM
Worst thing to happen to this team was Jay Cutler he turned his back on us.

Not until McDaniels turned his back on his franchise QB. McDaniels has no clue what he is doing.

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 11:14 AM
When this team goes 2-14 you won't be laughing.

Sometimes you have to take steps back to get rid of bad apples. If Marshall is one then I will deal with 2-14 to get rid of mental midgets.

DenverBrit
06-13-2009, 11:15 AM
It's a mini camp and Marshall hasn't been cleared to practice, so not really a huge deal....yet.

What is a big deal is his agent:

Guess who was Walker’s agent when the former Green Bay Packers wide receiver balked about management refusing to re-negotiate his contract?

Kennard McGuire-as in Marshall’s current agent.

Good luck getting a trade or a fat contract while Marshall is still injured and can't pass a medical, and also has court case looming in Aug that could leave him suspended for several games.

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 11:16 AM
Not until McDaniels turned his back on his franchise QB. McDaniels has no clue what he is doing.

:spit:

How exactly is Cutler a franchise QB? Because he has a rocket arm? Or is great btw the 20's. When people say this I just laugh my ass off.

I mean don't QB's who are franchise QB's not get drunk the night before games or make plays when they count, in the Red Zone!

He has Franchise talent yes, but franchise QB, no.

fdf
06-13-2009, 11:16 AM
he deserves a raise, pay the man.

In a different city.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 11:16 AM
Sometimes you have to take steps back to get rid of bad apples. If Marshall is one then I will deal with 2-14 to get rid of mental midgets.

Teammates have only raved about him as a teammate and his leadership and effort in practice etc...

Punisher
06-13-2009, 11:17 AM
When this team goes 2-14 you won't be laughing.

will win our 1st 4 games this season then will see what happens,yea our Offense looks kind of shakey but our D looks kind of good.

I say we have a chance to win the division without Marshall

:griese:

BMarsh615
06-13-2009, 11:18 AM
Sometimes you have to take steps back to get rid of bad apples. If Marshall is one then I will deal with 2-14 to get rid of mental midgets.

I want to win. I couldn't care less what these guys do in their free time. As long as they give it their all on game day I am happy.

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 11:18 AM
Teammates have only raved about him as a teammate and his leadership and effort in practice etc...

Yes I should have qualified that statement. Thanks for the reply. Marshall is not a cancer in the locker room. His teammates love him and watching him up close he has a great attitude. But if he is going to pull this with all the baggage then it makes you wonder.

DenverBrit
06-13-2009, 11:20 AM
Not until McDaniels turned his back on his franchise QB. McDaniels has no clue what he is doing.

Yep, it's all McPoopyFace's fault.

Until he took over as HC, Cutler showed no signs of immaturity and Marshall didn't have off-field problems or injuries.

BMarsh615
06-13-2009, 11:21 AM
:spit:

How exactly is Cutler a franchise QB? Because he has a rocket arm? Or is great btw the 20's. When people say this I just laugh my ass off.

I mean don't QB's who are franchise QB's not get drunk the night before games or make plays when they count, in the Red Zone!

He has Franchise talent yes, but franchise QB, no.

Only two QB's in NFL History had a higher QB Rating than Jay Cutler did in their rookie seasons.... Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisburger.

Jay has only been in the league for three seasons, he will get MUCH better. He never had a good defense and his teams have always had problems with injuries. Cutler did enough here to win games, he just couldn't do it all by himself.

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 11:24 AM
Only two QB's in NFL History had a higher QB Rating than Jay Cutler did in their rookie seasons.... Dan Marino and Ben Roethlisburger.

Jay has only been in the league for three seasons, he will get MUCH better. He never had a good defense and his teams have always had problems with injuries. Cutler did enough here to win games, he just couldn't do it all by himself.

Worst QB in the league in the Red Zone. Franchise players make plays when it counts. I like winning not stats.

BMarsh615
06-13-2009, 11:24 AM
Yep, it's all McPoopyFace's fault.

Until he took over as HC, Cutler showed no signs of immaturity and Marshall didn't have off-field problems or injuries.

We are a better team with Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall than we are without them.

McDaniels has made Denver the laughingstock of the NFL.

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 11:24 AM
I hate Josh McDaniels. Worst thing to ever happen to this team.

I'm not a huge Josh fan yet ... but this is not his fault.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 11:25 AM
Sigh

Florida_Bronco
06-13-2009, 11:25 AM
Yes I should have qualified that statement. Thanks for the reply. Marshall is not a cancer in the locker room. His teammates love him and watching him up close he has a great attitude. But if he is going to pull this with all the baggage then it makes you wonder.

Yeah, I'm not happy about Marshall not showing up but let's be honest here. He's kept his mouth shut in the media and his agent has actually tried to reign in some of the speculation.

So far both sides are doing a good job keeping this internal and we probably shouldn't get too riled up yet.

BMarsh615
06-13-2009, 11:26 AM
Worst QB in the league in the Red Zone. Franchise players make plays when it counts. I like winning not stats.

How about 12-1 when the defense allows fewer than 23 points, is that winning?

Didn't Jay play an ENTIRE season with untreated diabetes and managed to win 7 games?

Jay did more than enough to win ball games here. It was the defense and fluke injuries that cost us games... not Cutler.

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 11:26 AM
Yeah, I'm not happy about Marshall not showing up but let's be honest here. He's kept his mouth shut in the media and his agent has actually tried to reign in some of the speculation.

So far both sides are doing a good job keeping this internal and we probably shouldn't get too riled up yet.

Co-sign but he left with packed boxes of his belongings. Not a great sign.

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 11:27 AM
How about 12-1 when the defense allows fewer than 23 points, is that winning?

Didn't Jay play an ENTIRE season with untreated diabetes and managed to win 7 games?

Jay did more than enough to win ball games here. It was the defense and fluke injuries that cost us games... not Cutler.

Imagine how good he would be if he checked in to Betty Ford!

Punisher
06-13-2009, 11:28 AM
Jay has only been in the league for three seasons, he will get MUCH better.

Yea I don't see Lovie Smith throwing the ball every down and Devin Hester having a 100 Catch season.

And i find it hard to believe Cutler can have a good season without Shanny,also Cutler would of had a Hall of Fame career with McD.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 11:28 AM
Yeah, I'm not happy about Marshall not showing up but let's be honest here. He's kept his mouth shut in the media and his agent has actually tried to reign in some of the speculation.

So far both sides are doing a good job keeping this internal and we probably shouldn't get too riled up yet.


Ooooooooooooo!!! don't underestimate the mane mister;D

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 11:29 AM
Don't forget the line Cutler had. Thats gone too.

WoodMan
06-13-2009, 11:29 AM
IMO pay him. He has earned it on the field. Remember back to all the draft busts at WR who didn't do ****. Bowlen should renegotiate his contract and keep him happy and in Denver. Also, Marshall makes the other receivers better by garnishing double coverage.

DenverBrit
06-13-2009, 11:29 AM
We are a better team with Jay Cutler and Brandon Marshall than we are without them.

No doubt.

McDaniels has made Denver the laughingstock of the NFL.

Just like Shanny did when he brought in the Browncos, or when Walker wanted out, or paying Niko big bucks, or when the Broncos collapsed during the last three games. etc.etc.etc.


I couldn't care less. Winning takes care of everything.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 11:33 AM
Don't forget the line Cutler had. Thats gone too.


Soooooo true....

BMarsh615
06-13-2009, 11:33 AM
Yea I don't see Lovie Smith throwing the ball every down and Devin Hester having a 100 Catch season.

And i find it hard to believe Cutler can have a good season without Shanny,also Cutler would of had a Hall of Fame career with McD.

He probably won't play that well in Chicago with the talent they have, learning a new system won't help him much either.

Shanahan was no doubt a big reason Cutler progressed as well as he did. I don't know about McDaniels though... I hope he does a better job coaching than he has at handling personnel.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 11:33 AM
I couldn't care less. Winning takes care of everything.


I will add getting laid to that short list :clown:

Punisher
06-13-2009, 11:33 AM
I couldn't care less. Winning takes care of everything.

I agree one that plus McD doesn't know how to lose! :wiggle:

Flex Gunmetal
06-13-2009, 11:36 AM
Not until McDaniels turned his back on his franchise QB. McDaniels has no clue what he is doing.

ORLY?
I was under the impression cutler made himself completely unavailable to anyone in the Broncos organization, leading up to his trade.
Apparently you weren't around for that.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 11:38 AM
ORLY?
I was under the impression cutler made himself completely unavailable to anyone in the Broncos organization, leading up to his trade.
Apparently you weren't around for that.


Iam going to guess Facts will get you nowhere.

tsiguy96
06-13-2009, 11:38 AM
IMO pay him. He has earned it on the field. Remember back to all the draft busts at WR who didn't do ****. Bowlen should renegotiate his contract and keep him happy and in Denver. Also, Marshall makes the other receivers better by garnishing double coverage.

i agree, however marshall (my favorite player) is being a dick about this. he needs to show up and play and lobby for a contract after a few games and he is out of trouble.

DenverBrit
06-13-2009, 11:38 AM
I will add getting laid to that short list :clown:

:thumbsup:

BMarsh615
06-13-2009, 11:39 AM
ORLY?
I was under the impression cutler made himself completely unavailable to anyone in the Broncos organization, leading up to his trade.
Apparently you weren't around for that.

Cutler handled the entire thing poorly. But McDaniels threw the first punch.

Punisher
06-13-2009, 11:39 AM
He probably won't play that well in Chicago with the talent they have, learning a new system won't help him much either.

Shanahan was no doubt a big reason Cutler progressed as well as he did. I don't know about McDaniels though... I hope he does a better job coaching than he has at handling personnel.

Which will lead them to have a ****ty record and a good draft pick for us,Plus they have Green Bay and the Viks to worry about.And Green Bay will have a good year this season.

Cutler build his road and his road will be a ****ty one :~ohyah!:

DenverBrit
06-13-2009, 11:39 AM
I agree one that plus McD doesn't know how to lose! :wiggle:

He will. ;D

BMarsh615
06-13-2009, 11:40 AM
Iam going to guess Facts will get you nowhere.

The facts are that McDaniels tried to trade him, THEN Cutler acted like a baby.

Northman
06-13-2009, 11:42 AM
Cutler handled the entire thing poorly. But McDaniels threw the first punch.


And unfortuantely it still makes Jay look like a complete ass. I was in his corner until he went all drama queen and showed an unwillingness to try and work it out. Two wrongs dont make a right.

Punisher
06-13-2009, 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by WoodMan http://orangemane.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2443385#post2443385)
IMO pay him. He has earned it on the field. Remember back to all the draft busts at WR who didn't do ****. Bowlen should renegotiate his contract and keep him happy and in Denver. Also, Marshall makes the other receivers better by garnishing double coverage.


I don't think teams will double Cover someone that doesn't know the Offense.

Flex Gunmetal
06-13-2009, 11:44 AM
Cutler handled the entire thing poorly. But McDaniels threw the first punch.

By the trade speculation?
Big deal, this is grown up man business.
I wonder if he wasn't picked 1st in dodgeball if he didn't play at all.
What people like you don't realize is whatever McD is doing he's trying to improve the team, not his personal situation. Cutler and Marshall are/were looking out for #1.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 11:48 AM
By the trade speculation?
Big deal, this is grown up man business.
I wonder if he wasn't picked 1st in dodgeball if he didn't play at all.
What people like you don't realize is whatever McD is doing he's trying to improve the team, not his personal situation. Cutler and Marshall are/were looking out for #1.

Since when do people pick teams for dodgeball?

Hulamau
06-13-2009, 11:50 AM
We sure showed that cry baby who's boss!

Ayers will have to be Shawne Merriman, and next years pick will have to be similarly epic for this to be worth it.

You still talk as if there was some choice in the matter. Cutler cut his own nuts out of town and I say be careful what you wish for. He went to an even more unforgiving city with a FAR worse offensive brain trust behind him.

He'll have his nuts polished and licked shiny clean each morning by Ron Turner and get precious little of the character development, much less any of the fine points of becoming a rare QB talent, that would have separated him from possible Jeff George status and what could otherwise have been a truly special once in 20 years type career with McD or some other far better offensive mind guiding his future than Lovey-Dovey 'Mr Defense ...run till you drop' Smith and an over-rated College offensive Coordinator.

He only THINKS he got what he wanted, I doubt seriously he got what he needed. He was going to get paid no matter what. That wasn't the issue at all.

BMarsh615
06-13-2009, 11:50 AM
By the trade speculation?
Big deal, this is grown up man business.
I wonder if he wasn't picked 1st in dodgeball if he didn't play at all.
What people like you don't realize is whatever McD is doing he's trying to improve the team, not his personal situation. Cutler and Marshall are/were looking out for #1.

Cutler was the man when Shanahan was around. Then some new guy comes in and tries to trade him?? After he made the Pro Bowl?? I can see why Cutler went and said "**** him, trade me if I'm not good enough for you".

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 11:52 AM
A guy who has been arrested numerous times "accidentially" put his hand through an entertainment center and he wants to get a hefty contract? Sad when people with extreme talent lack any semblance of a brain.
And yet nothing he's done matches this HOFer for off the field stupidity

http://millertimeshow.com/blog/michael_irvin.jpg

Who think in retrospect the Cowboys should have dumped Irvin?

If Marshall were paid by his production ON THE FIELD...he would have made roughly $16 million in the last two years. instead he made $1 million...so that means Bowlen's gotten his services for basically a 94% discount.

That's like shopping at Nieman Marcus and paying Wal-Mart prices. Bowlen should at least up his deal for a short term contract with incentives for good behavior. Even if he got hurt, all Bowlen would be doing is compensating him PARTIALLY for what he's already produced for the team on the field.

But I guess we have Jabbar Gaffney so it's no big deal.

Cito Pelon
06-13-2009, 11:53 AM
According to the source, there was an “affinity,” expressed for Marshall during their meeting, and a certain level of respect for the Pro Bowl wide receiver emanated during this conversation for the simple fact that Marshall was actually there in the flesh addressing his ultimate boss-unlike former Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler who chose not to do so several inopportune times.

Wow, Marshall didn't bring his binky and his daddy to the meeting?

Coming in man to man should score him some points. If just for his own self-esteem. I'll say again if he's healthy, he'll be in camp and he'll get a new contract. If it doesn't work out where he's not healthy, at least Bowlen will be his friend for life just because he showed up and talked to him man to man.

Punisher
06-13-2009, 11:57 AM
I don't want to go Off topic but if Shanny would of just signed Michael Turner we wouldn't have to worry about all this Bull**** :(

Sassy
06-13-2009, 11:58 AM
I guess Baby TO wasn't too far off the mark.

:rofl:

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 11:58 AM
Coming in man to man should score him some points. If just for his own self-esteem.
Yes...I imagine a sit down with Uncle Pat did wonders for his "self esteem". LOL
I'll say again if he's healthy, he'll be in camp and he'll get a new contract. If it doesn't work out where he's not healthy, at least Bowlen will be his friend for life just because he showed up and talked to him man to man.
LOL

ZONA
06-13-2009, 12:11 PM
People here can be stupid for sure. Any top 10 player at their position in the last year of their contract that are as young as BM would hold out. They don't want to risk getting hurt without having a longer contract to help protect their earning interest. But because it's BM and he's had some problems, people here seem to forget all of that. He does deserve a raise. No, not one of the highest paid guys in the league because of his problems, but we can and should pay him more, as well as protect ourselves with a clause in the contract should he get a long suspension. Nothing wrong with that. Get off the guys back already. We'll pay him more, he'll play awesome and you guys will be cheering him on Sunday when he's making sweet plays for us, so STFU already.

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 12:14 PM
People here can be stupid for sure. Any top 10 player at their position in the last year of their contract that are as young as BM would hold out.

That's right. I think he should come in and study ... but I understand why he's not.

RMT
06-13-2009, 12:16 PM
How about 12-1 when the defense allows fewer than 23 points, is that winning?

Didn't Jay play an ENTIRE season with untreated diabetes and managed to win 7 games?

Jay did more than enough to win ball games here. It was the defense and fluke injuries that cost us games... not Cutler.

the "defense allowing fewer than X points" argument is moot ... plummer was 34-5 when that happened.

and as for playing in chicago with a better defense, they were good 3 years ago ... 26th in the league 2 years ago, and 21st last year.

that hardly qualifies as a "good defense" - give me a break.

RMT
06-13-2009, 12:17 PM
He probably won't play that well in Chicago with the talent they have, learning a new system won't help him much either.

Shanahan was no doubt a big reason Cutler progressed as well as he did. I don't know about McDaniels though... I hope he does a better job coaching than he has at handling personnel.

shanahan would still be here if he, too, had done a better job handling the personnel side ... it's a shame he brought in a lot of marginal players for shanahan the coach - that was his undoing.

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 12:19 PM
the "defense allowing fewer than X points" argument is moot ... plummer was 34-5 when that happened.
Conversely, Peyton Manning was a losing QB with bad defenses...so your point is Cutler should have exceeded him and since he didn't he sucked.

Good call.

cutthemdown
06-13-2009, 12:22 PM
Maybe Marshall knows hip isn't coming along and there is a good chance he plays poorly this yr, goes into uncapped yr a restricted FA and that won't be good for him.

IMO this could mean he's not going to be ready. That's probably the real reason he doesn't want Broncos looking at him too close. I don't think Marshall is going to last too long in NFL because he plays so physical and is already having some problems. Might not be smart for Broncos to worry about him showing up just yet.

RMT
06-13-2009, 12:22 PM
Cutler handled the entire thing poorly. But McDaniels threw the first punch.

and that's management's prerogative ...

RMT
06-13-2009, 12:50 PM
Conversely, Peyton Manning was a losing QB with bad defenses...so your point is Cutler should have exceeded him and since he didn't he sucked.

Good call.

no it isn't ... the point is that cutler supporters pin the blame on the defense to draw attention away from cutler's and the offense's shortcomings such as cutler's red zone efficiency (or lack thereof) and being #16 in scoring despite being #2 in total offense. that is not the fault of the defense.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-13-2009, 01:07 PM
no it isn't ... the point is that cutler supporters pin the blame on the defense to draw attention away from cutler's and the offense's shortcomings such as cutler's red zone efficiency (or lack thereof) and being #16 in scoring despite being #2 in total offense. that is not the fault of the defense.

I agree with you. That stat, while interesting, is bunk because it suggests offensive performance and defensive performance are mutually exclusive. In those same games Cutler lost (when the D gave up more points), his QB rating was pretty horrible, which suggests he had more to do with high opponent scoring than you might think. I'm not saying our defense wasnt craptastic, it was, but its not like Jay Cutler was a golden boy throughout his time in denver.

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 01:13 PM
no it isn't ... the point is that cutler supporters pin the blame on the defense to draw attention away from cutler's and the offense's shortcomings such as cutler's red zone efficiency (or lack thereof) and being #16 in scoring despite being #2 in total offense. that is not the fault of the defense.
Nonsense. I just showed you that Manning didn't win with bad defenses backing him up. What part of his game do you wish to blame for that?

Red zone scoring is largely a function of having a balanced offensive attack that can punch it in on the ground as well as throw it. With a longer field, teams played back to prevent the pass out of fear of Cutler's arm, which meant the running game benefited from that even with scrub RB's. With no real running threat that scared defenses however, and a shorter field that removed the threat of the deep ball, the offense lacked punch in the red zone. Predictable...but not the QB's fault. Add to this the fact that he basically had to take additional risks he might not have taken otherwise since he knew we had to virtually score every time downfield, and it's obvious why the team failed to score or turned it over sometimes in the red zone. So yes...it was primarily the defense.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-13-2009, 01:21 PM
Nonsense. I just showed you that Manning didn't win with bad defenses backing him up. What part of his game do you wish to blame for that?

Red zone scoring is largely a function of having a balanced offensive attack that can punch it in on the ground as well as throw it. With a longer field, teams played back to prevent the pass out of fear of Cutler's arm, which meant the running game benefited from that even with scrub RB's. With no real running threat that scared defenses however, and a shorter field that removed the threat of the deep ball, the offense lacked punch in the red zone. Predictable...but not the QB's fault. Add to this the fact that he basically had to take additional risks he might not have taken otherwise since he knew we had to virtually score every time downfield, and it's obvious why the team failed to score or turned it over sometimes in the red zone. So yes...it was primarily the defense.

Had to take risks downfield? That's a load of bull****. That's the mark of an undisciplined QB. Perhaps if he took less of those risks (like during the entire 2nd quarter in the second raiders game) he could have executed more of a ball control offense that couldhave turned the tide in the game.

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 01:22 PM
I agree with you. That stat, while interesting, is bunk because it suggests offensive performance and defensive performance are mutually exclusive. In those same games Cutler lost (when the D gave up more points), his QB rating was pretty horrible, which suggests he had more to do with high opponent scoring than you might think. I'm not saying our defense wasnt craptastic, it was, but its not like Jay Cutler was a golden boy throughout his time in denver.
Denver's _efense gave up over 50 more rushing yards per game in games the Broncos lost last year, thus eating clock, thus keeping the offense on the sidelines and continuing to wear out our defense, thus creating a situation where we had to throw. That's a massive difference, and much more indicative than the red zone stats falsely used to indict him for being the reason we sucked.

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 01:23 PM
Had to take risks downfield? That's a load of bull****. That's the mark of an undisciplined QB. Perhaps if he took less of those risks (like during the entire 2nd quarter in the second raiders game) he could have executed more of a ball control offense that couldhave turned the tide in the game.
A ball control offense huh? With what? Tatum Bell?

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 01:31 PM
You still talk as if there was some choice in the matter. Cutler cut his own nuts out of town and I say be careful what you wish for. He went to an even more unforgiving city with a FAR worse offensive brain trust behind him.

He'll have his nuts polished and licked shiny clean each morning by Ron Turner and get precious little of the character development, much less any of the fine points of becoming a rare QB talent, that would have separated him from possible Jeff George status and what could otherwise have been a truly special once in 20 years type career with McD or some other far better offensive mind guiding his future than Lovey-Dovey 'Mr Defense ...run till you drop' Smith and an over-rated College offensive Coordinator.

He only THINKS he got what he wanted, I doubt seriously he got what he needed. He was going to get paid no matter what. That wasn't the issue at all.

I'm sorry, but yes there absolutely was.

Players don't trade themselves. Especially when they say they'll report to mandatory activities.

Punisher
06-13-2009, 01:32 PM
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2293/2597023842_f407f39c03_o.jpg

I say we hire Rita and create a clone Putty of Brandon Marshall but of course the clone Brandon Marshall will have a better IQ and only beats up the Power Rangers and not his Girlfriends

http://www.freewebs.com/mightymorphin_powerrangers/putty.jpg

RMT
06-13-2009, 01:38 PM
Denver's _efense gave up over 50 more rushing yards per game in games the Broncos lost last year, thus eating clock, thus keeping the offense on the sidelines and continuing to wear out our defense, thus creating a situation where we had to throw. That's a massive difference, and much more indicative than the red zone stats falsely used to indict him for being the reason we sucked.

you mean the offense that couldn't finish drives once inside the red zone? how is that the fault of the defense? ... it isn't.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 01:40 PM
you mean the offense that couldn't finish drives once inside the red zone? how is that the fault of the defense? ... it isn't.

Statistically, yes it is. I've posted this several times over...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3121/3098993205_515ff24398.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3234/3099826898_613dde6543.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3136/3098993225_fc5aa77dd7.jpg?v=0

Hercules Rockefeller
06-13-2009, 01:55 PM
Pay him.

and someone needs to teach Josina Anderson how to write.

bpc
06-13-2009, 01:56 PM
Awesome news.

How's our 1st round draft pick for 2010 looking now? ****, Seattle might have two top selections next year.

Popps
06-13-2009, 02:00 PM
When this team goes 2-14 you won't be laughing.

No, but I suspect you'll be cheering.

Hercules Rockefeller
06-13-2009, 02:05 PM
No, but I suspect you'll be cheering.

and he'll be cheering if they're not too. Just like lex said the other day, he can't lose because if they suck he's vilified and if they win he's happy.

rovolution
06-13-2009, 02:05 PM
Conversely, Peyton Manning was a losing QB with bad defenses...so your point is Cutler should have exceeded him and since he didn't he sucked.

Good call.

Peyton had All-Pros like Marshall Faulk and Edgerrin James in the backfield with him.


Cutler had the likes of Selvin Young and Andre Hall.

Popps
06-13-2009, 02:06 PM
I'm sorry, but yes there absolutely was.

Players don't trade themselves. Especially when they say they'll report to mandatory activities.

So, when he put his homes up for sale and demanded a trade, he was really just saying... "hey, I want to be a Bronco."

Then again, it's hard to know what he really meant when he refused all contact with the organization and refused to meet with anyone, and when he did... had to bring his blankie and his da-da.

At least Marshall came in like a man and just laid things out. It apparently earned him respect and hopefully negotiations will go smoother because of it.

Punisher
06-13-2009, 02:06 PM
Awesome news.

How's our 1st round draft pick for 2010 looking now? ****, Seattle might have two top selections next year.

Seattle's lovin the Broncos show called "Meltdown",I believe they started to crack up in tears when McD offered his 1st round pick for a 2nd round guy in a weak draft they probably joke about it all the time.

And make jokes like "Don't worry guys we might have a top 5 pick next year" or "hey that McD is some Smart Guy" and make sarcastic jokes saying "Yea i hope the Broncos have a great year this year"

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 02:08 PM
So, when he put his homes up for sale and demanded a trade, he was really just saying... "hey, I want to be a Bronco."

Then again, it's hard to know what he really meant when he refused all contact with the organization and refused to meet with anyone, and when he did... had to bring his blankie and his da-da.

At least Marshall came in like a man and just laid things out. It apparently earned him respect and hopefully negotiations will go smoother because of it.

At least you can argue facts like a grown man...

/sarcasm for the slow folks

Cito Pelon
06-13-2009, 02:11 PM
the "defense allowing fewer than X points" argument is moot ... plummer was 34-5 when that happened.

and as for playing in chicago with a better defense, they were good 3 years ago ... 26th in the league 2 years ago, and 21st last year.

that hardly qualifies as a "good defense" - give me a break.

No, Cutler made EVERYTING. /sarcasm off.

Popps
06-13-2009, 02:13 PM
At least you can argue facts like a grown man...


True.

The fact very simply was, Cutler demanded to be traded and went through every motion to alienate himself and ensure that happened.

Not surprisingly, it did.

There's really nothing to argue.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 02:15 PM
True.

The fact very simply was, Cutler demanded to be traded and went through every motion to alienate himself and ensure that happened.

Not surprisingly, it did.

There's really nothing to argue.


END THREAD

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 02:20 PM
True.

The fact very simply was, Cutler demanded to be traded and went through every motion to alienate himself and ensure that happened.

Not surprisingly, it did.

There's really nothing to argue.

:spit:

You realize he got traded at the beginning of April?

Yeah... he did everything alright. There's so much to do for players at the start of April...

Edit: Under this logic, nearly every player from Miami should get traded annually.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 02:25 PM
:spit:

You realize he got traded at the beginning of April?

Yeah... he did everything alright. There's so much to do for players at the start of April...

Edit: Under this logic, nearly every player from Miami should get traded annually.


Cutler/cook wanted something done fast ( what did you expect) plus iam sure pat wanted this distraction out of the way and gone ( it makes sense ) that it happened fairly fast or is along drawn out battle better?

Cito Pelon
06-13-2009, 02:27 PM
Nonsense. I just showed you that Manning didn't win with bad defenses backing him up. What part of his game do you wish to blame for that?

Red zone scoring is largely a function of having a balanced offensive attack that can punch it in on the ground as well as throw it. With a longer field, teams played back to prevent the pass out of fear of Cutler's arm, which meant the running game benefited from that even with scrub RB's. With no real running threat that scared defenses however, and a shorter field that removed the threat of the deep ball, the offense lacked punch in the red zone. Predictable...but not the QB's fault. Add to this the fact that he basically had to take additional risks he might not have taken otherwise since he knew we had to virtually score every time downfield, and it's obvious why the team failed to score or turned it over sometimes in the red zone. So yes...it was primarily the defense.

I could refute you point by point, but I'll condense it to this - Cutler is a loser.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 02:27 PM
Cutler/cook wanted something done fast ( what did you expect) plus iam sure pat wanted this distraction out of the way and gone ( it makes sense ) that it happened fairly fast.

Cutler/cook do not dictate a front office's decisions.

The second part, however, is valid and only reinforces my point.

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 02:33 PM
I could refute you point by point...
No you can't.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 02:38 PM
Cutler/cook do not dictate a front office's decisions.
The second part, however, is valid and only reinforces my point.


Sure it did what the hell do you think they had to go from after waiting for cutler to surface and say something, THIS ALL was dealt with after cutler/cook made a move what the hell else were they suppose to do?

Kaylore
06-13-2009, 02:42 PM
I wonder how many people bothered reading this article and are now assuming it meant "training camp" and not the three day camp?

gyldenlove
06-13-2009, 03:01 PM
lol... we can't afford Boldin. That guy wants 10 mill a year. Why trade Marshall and pay a guy who's older even more than what Marshall would get in all likelihood. The Cardinals are loaded with caproom compared to us and even they won't pay Boldin.

The Cardinals have less than 3 million in cap space right now, not exactly loaded and nowhere near how much we have.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 03:35 PM
Sure it did what the hell do you think they had to go from after waiting for cutler to surface and say something, THIS ALL was dealt with after cutler/cook made a move what the hell else were they suppose to do?

That argument is absurd. "What else could they do?!?!?!?"

How about not trade him...?

It's funny but the same people saying "Cutler has no leverage!" are the same ones that are now saying "He forced his way out of town! What could we do?!?!"

Keep him, see if he truly DOES report to mandatory activities (which, by the way, were before the draft, so it either could've been resolved or still traded with at LEAST 10 days of prep).

--Sorry for response delay. Woke up late this morning and when I got up my 5 year old had made herself breakfast and cleaned my entire house, so I took her to Toys R Us.

watermock
06-13-2009, 03:37 PM
The circus never ends at Dove Valley.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 03:53 PM
That argument is absurd. "What else could they do?!?!?!?"

How about not trade him...?

It's funny but the same people saying "Cutler has no leverage!" are the same ones that are now saying "He forced his way out of town! What could we do?!?!"

Keep him, see if he truly DOES report to mandatory activities (which, by the way, were before the draft, so it either could've been resolved or still traded with at LEAST 10 days of prep).

--Sorry for response delay. Woke up late this morning and when I got up my 5 year old had made herself breakfast and cleaned my entire house, so I took her to Toys R Us.



It seems that this the core of your position and the driving force of most of your posts but sadly sometimes ( shyt doesn't work) and cook/cutler wanted something different ( and they got it ) just let it go nothing is going to change it's a fact cutler wanted out ( and he got his wish) let's just move on and quite wasting time b****ing about something that isn't going to change even if one of us wins a argument the only thing is everybody has a different view of how it all transpired. ( it changes nothing) sure there is the question of who is more a fault but the sad fact is ( cutler wanted out ) the minute shanny got the axe and it went downhill from there and never recovered. (I say lets all return to being bronco fans)

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 03:57 PM
It seems that this the core of your position and the driving force of most of your posts but sadly sometimes ( shyt doesn't work) and cook/cutler wanted something different ( and they got it ) just let it go nothing is going to change it's a fact cutler wanted out ( and he got his wish) let's just move on and quite wasting time b****ing about something that isn't going to change even if one of us wins a argument the only thing is everybody has a different view of how it all transpired. ( it changes nothing) sure there is the question of who is more a fault but the sad fact is ( cutler wanted out ) the minute shanny got the axe and it went downhill from there and never recovered. (I say lets all return to being bronco fans)

How can you possibly be THIS obtuse?

Yes, he's gone. I get it. But you can't trade yourself. Do you understand that? Jay Cutler doesn't run the FO. Yet your pissed at him for it.

Absolutely remarkable.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 04:05 PM
How can you possibly be THIS obtuse?

Yes, he's gone. I get it. But you can't trade yourself. Do you understand that? Jay Cutler doesn't run the FO. Yet your pissed at him for it.

Absolutely remarkable.



Iam done you have a agenda and nothing with change it or reason with it.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 04:09 PM
Iam done you have a agenda and nothing with change it or reason with it.

Translation: I'm out of ways to try and spin this into Cutler's fault.

DBroncos4life
06-13-2009, 04:10 PM
no it isn't ... the point is that cutler supporters pin the blame on the defense to draw attention away from cutler's and the offense's shortcomings such as cutler's red zone efficiency (or lack thereof) and being #16 in scoring despite being #2 in total offense. that is not the fault of the defense.

I don't know how many times I have to point out that we finished 15 points (9 more points puts us at 11th) outside of the top ten in scoring. Had our FG kicker not missed an extra point and just hit on three of his what seemed like 9 misses we would have been much higher in scoring with the same damn result. NOT IN THE PLAYOFFS.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 04:11 PM
Translation: I'm out of ways to try and spin this into Cutler's fault.

or you won't except anything else to make you think outside your own box.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 04:13 PM
or you won't except anything else to make you think outside your own box.

Reminder:

Cutler/cook do not dictate a front office's decisions.

The second part, however, is valid and only reinforces my point.

Several posts ago... still can't get it through your head apparently...?

watermock
06-13-2009, 04:14 PM
It didn't go downhill right away. Cutler came in amd studied the playbook.

Then Bates was fired, logical because we hired a OC as HC, but still a blow, then McDummy forced out the Goodmans, despite Bowlen's assurances.

Still, Cutler said he would attend mandatory camps, which is tantamount to a holdout these days, and should be addresses at the NFLPA meeting fiasco about to unfold.

Cutler got sent xactly where he wanted, and will play his contract, and re-do in the uncapped year.

It's pretty obvious Marshall will be gone next year as well.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 04:15 PM
Reminder:



Several posts ago... still can't get it through your head apparently...?


ok because you said it makes it true? it that your point?

Cito Pelon
06-13-2009, 04:16 PM
I wonder how many people bothered reading this article and are now assuming it meant "training camp" and not the three day camp?

Good point.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 04:21 PM
ok because you said it makes it true? it that your point?

Holy ****...

Are you serious?

You really think Cutler and Cook run the Broncos Front Office decisions?!?!?!

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

I'm surprised they just didn't give themselves an extension.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 04:31 PM
Holy ****...

Are you serious?

You really think Cutler and Cook run the Broncos Front Office decisions?!?!?!

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

I'm surprised they just didn't give themselves an extension.



I seems you have it all figured out :spit:

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 04:38 PM
I seems you have it all figured out :spit:

That WAS rude, and I'm sorry, but seriously, my 5 year old understands this:

A front office manages the football operations including the players and their contracts and rights.

If a FO so decides it can NEVER let a player get away, even if there's a dispute with the players value... it's what the Franchise tag was invented for. Granted after a year, this starts to get pricey at x1.2 raises, but it's a technique to completely molest the rights of a player in a monopoly.

Players can leverage themselves in one major way: Holding out, and it's very common

Regardless, holding out doesn't affect the teams control over their rights. A player or agent CANNOT trade themselves. They COULD force the FOs hand by actually sitting through the start of the season up until the trade deadline, but that's beyond rare. Too much money at stake for everyone involved. Last example: Mike McKenzie GB almost a decade ago.

Now, let's apply what you've now learned to your earlier statement that Cutler and Cook forced the FO's hand.

But Cutler never even threatened to hold out...

GJDM :thumbsup:

TonyR
06-13-2009, 05:01 PM
But Cutler never even threatened to hold out...


Do you really believe, the way things were going, that he would have shown up? The Broncos made overtures, he rejected them. What would you have them do, beg? Cutler exercised his right not to cooperate, the Broncos exercised their right to trade him.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 05:08 PM
Do you really believe, the way things were going, that he would have shown up? The Broncos made overtures, he rejected them. What would you have them do, beg? Cutler exercised his right not to cooperate, the Broncos exercised their right to trade him.

The Broncos were within rights. I've never argued that. Was it the smart thing to do? I don't see how anything could think it was, but that's open to interpretation.

As for your first sentence, he said multiple times he would show up. He said multiple times he'd play for his teammates. Allegedly (because this is internet hearsay, so I won't quantify it as fact), he was having his car shipped to Denver WHEN he got traded.

COULD he have pulled a Manning or Elway and said "I won't play here" and forced their hand. Sure, but as history has shown us, it's extremely unlikely, and he never once indicated that he would. In fact, he claimed only the exact opposite.

And a mandatory camp was only days away to find out.

WABronco
06-13-2009, 05:10 PM
A player holdout!?!? Oh the horror! Let's have another gay forum war!

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 05:11 PM
That WAS rude, and I'm sorry, but seriously, my 5 year old understands this:

A front office manages the football operations including the players and their contracts and rights.

If a FO so decides it can NEVER let a player get away, even if there's a dispute with the players value... it's what the Franchise tag was invented for. Granted after a year, this starts to get pricey at x1.2 raises, but it's a technique to completely molest the rights of a player in a monopoly.

Players can leverage themselves in one major way: Holding out, and it's very common

Regardless, holding out doesn't affect the teams control over their rights. A player or agent CANNOT trade themselves. They COULD force the FOs hand by actually sitting through the start of the season up until the trade deadline, but that's beyond rare. Too much money at stake for everyone involved. Last example: Mike McKenzie GB almost a decade ago.

Now, let's apply what you've now learned to your earlier statement that Cutler and Cook forced the FO's hand.

But Cutler never even threatened to hold out...

GJDM :thumbsup:


I doubt it but whatever makes you feel superior ( knock yourself out) i'll read and post accordingly.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 05:13 PM
Do you really believe, the way things were going, that he would have shown up? The Broncos made overtures, he rejected them. What would you have them do, beg? Cutler exercised his right not to cooperate, the Broncos exercised their right to trade him.



Come on tony even his 5 year old understrands contract negotiations and rational thought well when dora the explorer is on that is :~ohyah!:

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 05:15 PM
I doubt it but whatever makes you feel superior ( knock yourself out) i'll read and post accordingly.

Another awesome example of dodging anything factual. That's the part of the post you respond to! Priceless, man.

Really, you should go professional, I'd watch you compete at the Olympics and bring home the Gold with pride.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 05:17 PM
Come on tony even his 5 year old understrands contract negotiations and rational thought well when dora the explorer is on that is :~ohyah!:

Projecting your inability to understand football at a PreK level is just sad.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 05:19 PM
Projecting your inability to understand football at a PreK level is just sad.


I see you're taking the high road ( that's very admiral)

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 05:21 PM
I see you're taking the high road ( that's very admiral)

As opposed to not addressing the actual points in a discussion and trying to turn this into something it's not?

I can play that way too.

It's spelled "admiral" does not = "admirable"

But since you're blatantly retarded and obviously on the same IQ scale as a moth, it's an understandable error.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 05:25 PM
As opposed to not addressing the actual points in a discussion and trying to turn this into something it's not?

I can play that way too.

It's spelled "admiral" does not = "admirable"

But since you're blatantly retarded and obviously on the same IQ scale as a moth, it's an understandable error.

Iam really sorry my spelling doesn't meet your expectation asshole but sadly i don't care ( never have) ask anybody so what else can't you pick on to prove whatever point you're trying to prove?

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 05:28 PM
A player holdout!?!? Oh the horror! Let's have another gay forum war!
Free entertainment though

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 05:29 PM
Iam really sorry my spelling doesn't meet your expectation a-hole but sadly i don't care ( never have) ask anybody so what else can't you pick on to prove whatever point you're trying to prove?

You already proved yourself to be an idiot. The rest is just supplementary--on second thought, you might want to look that word up :spit:

TonyR and I have had many an argument, but note how he addressed the points of the post, and I replied in kind.

You, on the other hand, are worthless. If you had any sense of responsibility to our species, you'd rush out for a vasectomy so you don't pollute our gene pool.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 05:31 PM
Now, if you'll excuse, I'm going to go play a game of Princess Bingo with my daughter. It'll be more intellectually stimulating than this conversation.

I'll be hopeful that TonyR has provided a worthwhile response to our end of the conversation since Bronx is completely inept at providing anything at all.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 05:33 PM
You already proved yourself to be an idiot. The rest is just supplementary--on second thought, you might want to look that word up :spit:

TonyR and I have had many an argument, but note how he addressed the points of the post, and I replied in kind.

You, on the other hand, are worthless. If you had any sense of responsibility to our species, you'd rush out for a vasectomy so you don't pollute our gene pool.


Wow you are one classy guy ( iam guessing your single).

TonyR
06-13-2009, 05:37 PM
As for your first sentence, he said multiple times he would show up. He said multiple times he'd play for his teammates.

It's certainly possible. I just think his words and his actions (not showing for the meeting, staying out of town, selling real estate, reportedly not responding to overtures, etc.) didn't line up very well. I'm very much with you in wishing they would have worked it out, but I also understand why they did what they did.

scttgrd
06-13-2009, 05:43 PM
Wow you are one classy guy.

While that may have been a bit over the top, you like many others around here either have no arguement or thier heads so far up thier a**es they can't think for sh!t. Common sense seems to be in short supply lately.

Everyone seems to forget that it is the team that makes the decisions, not the players. The league isn't that complicated, guys in the last year of thier contract might want some kind of assurance. Like a new deal? WOW! Shocking!

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 05:46 PM
It didn't go downhill right away. Cutler came in amd studied the playbook.

Then Bates was fired, logical because we hired a OC as HC, but still a blow, then McDummy forced out the Goodmans, despite Bowlen's assurances.

Still, Cutler said he would attend mandatory camps, which is tantamount to a holdout these days, and should be addresses at the NFLPA meeting fiasco about to unfold.

Cutler got sent xactly where he wanted, and will play his contract, and re-do in the uncapped year.

It's pretty obvious Marshall will be gone next year as well.

Good post, good recap. But isn't B-Marsh a restricted free agent next season?

Plus we could fanchise him ... or does all that stuff go out the window with the "uncapped season"? Is the whole CBA out the window, or just the cap?

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 05:51 PM
While that may have been a bit over the top, you like many others around here either have no arguement or thier heads so far up thier a**es they can't think for ****. Common sense seems to be in short supply lately.

Everyone seems to forget that it is the team that makes the decisions, not the players. The league isn't that complicated, guys in the last year of thier contract might want some kind of assurance. Like a new deal? WOW! Shocking!


Opinion noted sadly i guess you agree with rev and my opinon means nothing hopefully you don't lower your standards and pick out spelling errors to rub a moot point in. :thumbsup:

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 06:01 PM
That WAS rude, and I'm sorry, but seriously, my 5 year old understands this:

A front office manages the football operations including the players and their contracts and rights. If a FO so decides it can NEVER let a player get away, even if there's a dispute with the players value... it's what the Franchise tag was invented for. Granted after a year, this starts to get pricey at x1.2 raises, but it's a technique to completely molest the rights of a player in a monopoly.

Players can leverage themselves in one major way: Holding out, and it's very common. Regardless, holding out doesn't affect the teams control over their rights. A player or agent CANNOT trade themselves. They COULD force the FOs hand by actually sitting through the start of the season up until the trade deadline, but that's beyond rare. Too much money at stake for everyone involved. Last example: Mike McKenzie GB almost a decade ago.
Now, let's apply what you've now learned to your earlier statement that Cutler and Cook forced the FO's hand.

But Cutler never even threatened to hold out...

GJDM :thumbsup:

I read you, five by five.

B-Marsh has another bit of leverage nobody's talking about in here ... Pat's probably near-desperate not to lose another star player. Like I posted earlier, Jay's gone, and our other two Pro-Bowlers - Weigmann and B-Marsh - are both really unhappy.

Pat's under some serious pressure not to lose these guys, that's probably why he's taken "the point" here ... he can't lose any more stars, and he's not ready to trust Josh and Brian again after the Cutler fiasco.

FireFly
06-13-2009, 06:11 PM
When all is said and done, and as much as I don't agree with it, I think Marshall gets a new deal.

They're not going to let him go, they don't want any more drama than they've already had and while he doesn't deserve to be paid as the best WR in the league he does deserve more than what he's scheduled to earn imo.

I can understand Marshall's side of the argument, he's in the last year of his contract and like any player could have a career ending injury at any point from training camp to week 16 of the regular season. He's not interested in the Bronco's risk in giving him a contract and nor would you or I be. What he's concerned about is the risk that he takes on if he doesn't get some sort of long term assurances.

With this being said, I almost more than anyone, am always on the side of the organization in any player disputes. But him wanting a new contract at this late point in his current one is not suprising.

If we give him one now, we could fill it with conditions, clauses and escalators. If he stays out of trouble for just this year and plays well, he will want the biggest WR contract in NFL history next year. The front office knows this as well.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 06:12 PM
It's certainly possible. I just think his words and his actions (not showing for the meeting, staying out of town, selling real estate, reportedly not responding to overtures, etc.) didn't line up very well. I'm very much with you in wishing they would have worked it out, but I also understand why they did what they did.

I think had they waited a week they could've received more competitive offers, OR had him in town for a mandatory activity.

That's win/win/win:

Option 1: More compensation.

Option 2: He comes in, cooler heads prevail, he's QBing the team.

Option 3: He doesn't come in, more public opinion understands your decision

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 06:13 PM
I read you, five by five.

B-Marsh has another bit of leverage nobody's talking about in here ... Pat's probably near-desperate not to lose another star player. Like I posted earlier, Jay's gone, and our other two Pro-Bowlers - Weigmann and B-Marsh - are both really unhappy.

Pat's under some serious pressure not to lose these guys, that's probably why he's taken "the point" here ... he can't lose any more stars, and he's not ready to trust Josh and Brian again after the Cutler fiasco.

No, that's been talked about :thumbsup:

Northman
06-13-2009, 06:16 PM
I think Rev has pretty much covered it. lol

watermock
06-13-2009, 06:19 PM
Do you really believe, the way things were going, that he would have shown up? The Broncos made overtures, he rejected them. What would you have them do, beg? Cutler exercised his right not to cooperate, the Broncos exercised their right to trade him.

1st mandatory camp was this week. Bowlen blinked and then let McDummy run a very mediocre draft, despite having 3 firsts and 2 thirds.

Cutler would of played for a new contract in an uncapped year. Guess what? He still will. Either way, he only costs 600,000 this year for the year to the bears.

That's it. We traded our franchise QB with an 09 salary of 600k. The bears pay none of his signing bonus.

Besides, it's done. Now comes the rest of the discontent. Weigman, Marshall, Sheff, Doom will probably go to a 4/3 at first chance.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 06:20 PM
I think Rev has pretty much covered it. lol

...and if that weren't also Pat's POV, and X and McD had handled it properly, wtf is Bowlen now doing in the player meetings now? 2 months ago he couldn't drag himself away from the Jameson to walk down the hall to meet with "the man around here".

epicSocialism4tw
06-13-2009, 06:23 PM
like this anonymous NFL agent who told FOX31 Sports this the same day:

“Pat Bowlen needs to tell Brandon, ‘You’re making $2.2 million dollars. I could have thrown you to the [edit] wolves 15 times already. Now shut-up and play.’ The Broncos would be complete idiots if they acquiesce to his demands.”

The Broncos have proven this offseason that they essentially are complete idiots.

This new issue with Marshall was just a matter of time given the incompetence of management and the new staff.

I wouldnt be surprised if Marshall caught wind of McD and decided that he wanted out of town as well.

This offseason continues to get worse and worse.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 06:24 PM
1st mandatory camp was this week. Bowlen blinked and then let McDummy run a very mediocre draft, despite having 3 firsts and 2 thirds.

Cutler would of played for a new contract in an uncapped year. Guess what? He still will. Either way, he only costs 600,000 this year for the year to the bears.

That's it. We traded our franchise QB with an 09 salary of 600k. The bears pay none of his signing bonus.

Besides, it's done. Now comes the rest of the dicontent. eigman, Marshall, Sheff, Doom will probably go to a 4/3.

Actually pretty probable, though I doubt it will be public.

Realistically, the CBAs gonna get worked out. Those guys play this year under McD and try and stay healthy and they know they can press FA next year.

Marshall either gets tagged or sets a new WR contract record in FA.

Scheff puts up another season like he has, and his numbers are comparable if not better to K2, so he can get at MINIMUM Winslows contract x 1.1

Doom is coming off a down season. Even if he stays down stat wise, pass rushers are such a premium that some DC will be shouting down doors lobbying for him

watermock
06-13-2009, 06:33 PM
he couldn't drag himself away from the Jameson to walk down the hall to meet with "the man around here".

Yet he was able to sit behind his desk and let Shanny walk away with 22 mill instead of firing Slowik and forcing a resignation.

Just like "firing" Cutler, he could of "fired" Slowick.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 06:40 PM
Yet he was able to sit behind his desk and let Shanny walk away with 22 mill instead of firing Slowik and forcing a resignation.

Just like "firing" Cutler, he could of "fired" Slowick.

I don't think that adds up.

I can't use Bowlen's own word that that's not the reason Mike was fired because he lied every time his mouth opened in that presser, and this is just wild speculation on my part, but I truly believe he was tired of feeling like a figurehead with his own company being run by someone else.

But then again, he did the same thing with McD initially? But now he's taking it back again?

I think my efforts of trying to apply logic to this man are completely futile at the moment...

Broncojef
06-13-2009, 06:41 PM
1st mandatory camp was this week. Bowlen blinked and then let McDummy run a very mediocre draft, despite having 3 firsts and 2 thirds.

Cutler would of played for a new contract in an uncapped year. Guess what? He still will. Either way, he only costs 600,000 this year for the year to the bears.

That's it. We traded our franchise QB with an 09 salary of 600k. The bears pay none of his signing bonus.

Besides, it's done. Now comes the rest of the discontent. Weigman, Marshall, Sheff, Doom will probably go to a 4/3 at first chance.

Good riddance. Cutler, Marshall and boys were coddled and lead to believe they were something special, they bought into the Shanahan "we're so close BS". Truth is they are decent players that act like idiots...glad Cutler is gone so I don't have to cheer for his whiney a$$...truth is if Marshall is of the same cloth get rid of him too.

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 06:41 PM
like this anonymous NFL agent who told FOX31 Sports this the same day:

“Pat Bowlen needs to tell Brandon, ‘You’re making $2.2 million dollars. I could have thrown you to the [edit] wolves 15 times already. Now shut-up and play.’ The Broncos would be complete idiots if they acquiesce to his demands.”

That's just plain stupid, even naive. No Top 10 player in this leage, going into the last rear of his deal, should be staisfied making the 60th highest salary.

Sure, he should take a $$ hit for the off-field stuff, the team should protect itself, but #60 going into year 4, the last year, is unacceptable.


I can see why this "agent" remained anonymous ... the only "complete idiot" in that scenario is the writer :~ohyah!:

epicSocialism4tw
06-13-2009, 07:17 PM
Good riddance. Cutler, Marshall and boys were coddled and lead to believe they were something special, they bought into the Shanahan "we're so close BS". Truth is they are decent players that act like idiots...glad Cutler is gone so I don't have to cheer for his whiney a$$...truth is if Marshall is of the same cloth get rid of him too.

That's the ticket.

Get rid of all of the talent and go to battle with McD and his army of clones.

That's a recipe for disaster. Success in the NFL requires exceptional talent, exceptional coaching, and for things to break right. You dont get rid of your talent because your new coach is an idiot. You get rid of the rookie, bumbling idiot of a head coach.

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 07:23 PM
That's just plain stupid, even naive. No Top 10 player in this leage, going into the last rear of his deal, should be staisfied making the 60th highest salary.

Sure, he should take a $$ hit for the off-field stuff, the team should protect itself, but #60 going into year 4, the last year, is unacceptable.


I can see why this "agent" remained anonymous ... the only "complete idiot" in that scenario is the writer :~ohyah!:
I don't know where this #60 thing comes from but there are obviously WAY more than 60 guys making $2.2 million this year. That would be less than 2 per team, and that's clearly nonsense. Is that the 60th best paid receiver maybe? Even that's a stretch. Also...most of that is his bonus for making the pro bowl...he's still on the $500K deal.

baja
06-13-2009, 07:32 PM
They should have paid him before the hold out it was the right thing to do now players will read "hold out and get paid" when Marshal gets his new contract.

FireFly
06-13-2009, 08:43 PM
They should have paid him before the hold out it was the right thing to do now players will read "hold out and get paid" when Marshal gets his new contract.

You're probably not too far from being wrong. But its all the more reason to get it done quickly. They could still potentially pass it off as not being a hold out if they dealt with it and spun it the way they wanted.

Popps
06-13-2009, 10:32 PM
That's just plain stupid, even naive. No Top 10 player in this leage, going into the last rear of his deal, should be staisfied making the 60th highest salary.

Sure, he should take a $$ hit for the off-field stuff, the team should protect itself, but #60 going into year 4, the last year, is unacceptable.


I can see why this "agent" remained anonymous ... the only "complete idiot" in that scenario is the writer :~ohyah!:

Yea, sources are always idiots when you disagree with them, right?

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 10:35 PM
Yea, sources are always idiots when you disagree with them, right?

The part that cracks me up is that it's an unnamed agent calling a team idiots if they pay a player.

I read that and I said, "...wait...what?"

Popps
06-13-2009, 10:49 PM
The part that cracks me up is that it's an unnamed agent calling a team idiots if they pay a player.

I read that and I said, "...wait...what?"

I'm assuming we can rule out Marshall's agent.

BroncoDoug
06-13-2009, 10:55 PM
anyone check out marshall blog from the 25th?

Sounds like he was a wee bit ticked off about the hip injury not being found, and i love the last line:

I’m now in Orlando where I will continue to rehab and spend every
chance I can with my fiancé until she gets tired of me but she usually
doesn’t. lol

Edit: here is the link, sorry http://www.bmarshall15.com/blog/?p=134#more-134

~Crash~
06-14-2009, 07:49 AM
Shanahan had this right with Pryce he told him to show up and we will talk contract .

elsid13
06-14-2009, 08:17 AM
Shanahan had this right with Pryce he told him to show up and we will talk contract .

Shanahan also had it right, when he gave the rookies/vets that performed above their contract a new deal the year before the old one ran out. That was the pattern and the players and agents understood that - play well and you will get taken care of. Now with the new regime they don't know what going on. Graham isn't a NE Patriot right now because that organization waited to long to attempt to sign him. Shanahan's method was far better in locking in young talent.

BabyTO
06-14-2009, 08:35 AM
Only the hypocrite babies in here will continue to complain. It's business. If you don't understand that you shouldn't be watching football.

His contract is running up and the past 2 years he was the best receiver in football along with Fitzgerald and Andre Johnson maybe. Pay the guy or let him walk. I understand both sides.

orangemonkey
06-14-2009, 11:01 AM
Letting your franchise receiver go would be par for the course now. Let's go Broncos - get rid of B-Marsh.

outdoor_miner
06-14-2009, 11:17 AM
They should have paid him before the hold out it was the right thing to do now players will read "hold out and get paid" when Marshal gets his new contract.

My question is: How can you say this without knowing how much Marshall wants and how much the Broncos are offering? Do you make him a Top 10 paid WR in the league? Top 5? Top 3? Number 1? We don't know what he and his agent are asking, so how can we decide how the Broncos "should have" responded?

outdoor_miner
06-14-2009, 11:21 AM
Shanahan also had it right, when he gave the rookies/vets that performed above their contract a new deal the year before the old one ran out. That was the pattern and the players and agents understood that - play well and you will get taken care of. Now with the new regime they don't know what going on. Graham isn't a NE Patriot right now because that organization waited to long to attempt to sign him. Shanahan's method was far better in locking in young talent.

You have to admit, though... Marshall is a bit of a special case. He is a tremendous talent with tremendous risk. Are you certain that Shanahan would have resigned Marshall given:

a. After he had supposedly "righted the ship" and put his relationship with his ex behind him, he is arrested for fighting in the street with his new fiancee? Even if the charge was dismissed, it is *extremely* disturbing that he would make this type of lapse in judgment. The guy knows what's at stake, and he still lets something like this happen...

b. He still has a possible suspension looming over his head with the upcoming trial.

You have to admit, that is a ton of risk... I'm not so sure Shanahan and Goodman just cave and give Marshall a gigantic extension.

broncsyanks
06-14-2009, 12:06 PM
we better not lose him now

TonyR
06-14-2009, 02:10 PM
You have to admit, though... Marshall is a bit of a special case. He is a tremendous talent with tremendous risk.

Exactly right, and I continue to scratch my head about why anyone feels otherwise. Makes absolutely no sense to re-up him before they both find out he's healthy and find out his most recent legal troubles won't lead to a lengthy suspension. It's nothing against Brandon, it's just common sense and good business. What's funny is a lot of the same people who are b*thcing and moaning about this would be saying how stupid they were to give him a new deal if it had gone that way before this issue came up.

Atlas
06-14-2009, 02:30 PM
Trade him to Chicago for a 2nd rounder