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View Full Version : Pat Bowlen the point man on player meetings now?


Taco John
06-12-2009, 03:14 PM
Interesting... What does it mean?

At the very least, it means we're seeing a policy change. It's going to be interesting to see how the power structure in this organization breaks out.

Bronco Rob
06-12-2009, 03:15 PM
It's Five O' Clock Somewhere.




:sunshine:

bronco militia
06-12-2009, 03:16 PM
http://verdoux.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain.jpg

pay no attention to the man behind the curtain

Taco John
06-12-2009, 03:16 PM
It's Five O' Clock Somewhere.




:sunshine:


Boston and New York. :)

bronco militia
06-12-2009, 03:18 PM
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1229/bowleninformationminist.jpg

kamakazi_kal
06-12-2009, 03:23 PM
dont talk bad about the FO. (insert nucular family smack here)

:twokisses

BroncoBuff
06-12-2009, 03:23 PM
Where did you find this tidbit?

Taco John
06-12-2009, 03:33 PM
Texts per CBS4


CBS4 Broncos Insiders: Brandon Marshall did not show for mandatory minicamp today. He's in town and is set to meet with Pat Bowlen later today.

CBS4 Broncos Insiders: Receiver Brandon Marshall appears at Dove Valley for meeting with Bowlen, McDaniels.



http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/nfl.brandon.marshall.2.1042216.html

Taco John
06-12-2009, 03:40 PM
By the way... How can anyone call themselves a Broncos fan and not have the Broncos Insider text service in this day and age? How else will you know when to go running - not walking to the Mane!?

cutthemdown
06-12-2009, 04:18 PM
Anytime someone powerful leaves an organization, business, govt, etc it creates a void where people will jockey for power.

I'm sure Bowlen see's that and maybe feels him assuming some of that power will take some pressure off Mcdaniels.

I agree though Taco it will be interesting to see who emerges over next couple of yrs as the powers in the Broncos Organization.

Shanny and the Goodmans has a lot of power.

BroncoMan4ever
06-12-2009, 04:25 PM
Texts per CBS4


CBS4 Broncos Insiders: Brandon Marshall did not show for mandatory minicamp today. He's in town and is set to meet with Pat Bowlen later today.

CBS4 Broncos Insiders: Receiver Brandon Marshall appears at Dove Valley for meeting with Bowlen, McDaniels.



http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/nfl.brandon.marshall.2.1042216.html

even though i think he deserves more money, i don't like players holding out. but at least Marshall is going about this the right way and isn't following the path of his former QB ignoring the owner and coach. and not being like other players wanting more money who go crying to the media. he stayed quiet about it, is talking to the owner and coach and came in immediately.

i don't like that he is holding out, but i like the way he is handling himself in the situation

footstepsfrom#27
06-12-2009, 04:32 PM
even though i think he deserves more money, i don't like players holding out. but at least Marshall is going about this the right way and isn't following the path of his former QB ignoring the owner and coach. and not being like other players wanting more money who go crying to the media. he stayed quiet about it, is talking to the owner and coach and came in immediately.

i don't like that he is holding out, but i like the way he is handling himself in the situation
Stay tuned...

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 04:48 PM
Interesting... What does it mean?

"Sure he's made rookie mistakes"

Popps
06-12-2009, 04:50 PM
I can't remember... was Bowlen supposed to be involved in player situations or not?

When he wasn't, people got pissy.

When he is, people get pissy.


Sometimes I get this crazy idea that some people just want to be pissy.

Naahhh. Probably not.

cutthemdown
06-12-2009, 04:52 PM
I agree with pops people just frustrated by 3 yrs of crap, then Cutler gets them excited, then he's gone, Shanny's gone, people just venting.

Only one thing can cure the Broncos fanbase and that's getting back into playoffs and being a contender again.

Bronx33
06-12-2009, 04:54 PM
I can't remember... was Bowlen supposed to be involved in player situations or not?

When he wasn't, people got pissy.

When he is, people get pissy.


Sometimes I get this crazy idea that some people just want to be pissy.

Naahhh. Probably not.


That's exactly what i remember. ( damned if you do and damned if you don't)

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 04:55 PM
I can't remember... was Bowlen supposed to be involved in player situations or not?

When he wasn't, people got pissy.

When he is, people get pissy.


Sometimes I get this crazy idea that some people just want to be pissy.

Naahhh. Probably not.

I think it has more to do with everything that he's publicly said, he's then turned around executed the opposite with his actions.

DBroncos4life
06-12-2009, 04:55 PM
By the way... How can anyone call themselves a Broncos fan and not have the Broncos Insider text service in this day and age? How else will you know when to go running - not walking to the Mane!?

Any real fan would have the Mane just up on his computer running all day.

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 04:56 PM
Any real fan would have the Mane just up on his computer running all day.

this :thumbs:

Bronx33
06-12-2009, 04:57 PM
I think it has more to do with everything that he's publicly said, he's then turned around executed the opposite with his actions.


Being a military man that you are iam sure you understand that in the heat of battle ( things change) and direction needs to be adjusted from time to time to suite the situation.

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 04:59 PM
Being a military man that you are iam sure in the heat of battle ( things change) and direction needs to be adjusted from time to time to suite the situation.

5 paragraph order.

SMEAC

Situation
Mission
Execution
Administration
Logistics and command

Not one mention of lying constantly...

Bronx33
06-12-2009, 05:06 PM
5 paragraph order.

SMEAC

Situation
Mission
Execution
Administration
Logistics and command

Not one mention of lying constantly...



Pleaaaaase.......And iam sure every battle goes just like it was drawn up.

You addapt and you overcome ( the marines)

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 05:08 PM
Pleaaaaase.......And iam sure every battle goes just like it was drawn up.

You addapt and you overcome ( the marines)

Missing the point:
Via using a rank structure.

First off, those situations do not compare to an off-season football franchise.

Secondly, any "rank structure" established in Dove Valley has been ambiguous and fluid ALL off-season.

If you have any issue with the validity of those facts, please express your disagreement.

DenverBrit
06-12-2009, 05:12 PM
Being a military man that you are iam sure you understand that in the heat of battle ( things change) and direction needs to be adjusted from time to time to suite the situation.

It's never been said better than:

"No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy." Field Marshall Helmuth Carl Bernard von Moltke

Also true in business.;D

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 05:13 PM
It's never been said better than:

"No battle plan ever survives contact with the enemy." Field Marshall Helmuth Carl Bernard von Moltke

;D

Define the contact with the enemy that Bowlen experienced that involved such improvisation and circumventing his own public statements...?

DenverBrit
06-12-2009, 05:15 PM
Define the contact with the enemy that Bowlen experienced that involved such improvisation and circumventing his own public statements...?

That's simply changing one's mind.....when you're a business owner, you're allowed.

BroncoBuff
06-12-2009, 05:16 PM
It's Five O' Clock Somewhere.




:sunshine:

Jimmy Buffet/Alan Jackson rep ...!

Bronx33
06-12-2009, 05:17 PM
Missing the point:
Via using a rank structure.

First off, those situations do not compare to an off-season football franchise.

Secondly, any "rank structure" established in Dove Valley has been ambiguous and fluid ALL off-season.

If you have any issue with the validity of those facts, please express your disagreement.


What does that have to do with how situiations consitantly changed reguarding cutler and how pat had to handle it? iam talking about what hand pat was dealt and how he he had to deal with it. ( which was my point) i only used the military battle protocol as an example i guess you missed the corolation ( that things change every minute) by stating (every battle) is cut and dry and goes perfect every single time.:P

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 05:19 PM
That's simply changing one's mind.....when you're a business owner, you're allowed.

He's absolutely allowed. However, none of his actions this off-season have shown any appropriate organizational leadership skills.

Setting an example? Integrity? A clear organizational structure?

:spit: :spit: :spit: :spit:

That's a bonus spit for the booze.

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 05:22 PM
What does that have to do with how situiations consitantly changed reguarding cutler and how pat had to handle it? iam talking about what hand pat was dealt and how he he had to deal with it. ( which was my point) i only used the military battle protocol as an example i guess you missed the corolation ( that things change every minute) by stating (every battle) is cut and dry and goes perfect every single time.:P

What changed regarding Cutler?

That wasn't very fluid...

Bowlen claims Jay is the man and will be involved in the coaching decision

Bowlen hires Josh and doesn't remember if he spoke with Jay about it

Josh and Jay spend two weeks going over the offense

Josh tries to trade Jay for Cassell

Jay gets mad, leaves and formally requests trade, but states he will play for his teammates and show up to mandatory team activities

Jay gets traded

DenverBrit
06-12-2009, 05:24 PM
He's absolutely allowed. However, none of his actions this off-season have shown any appropriate organizational leadership skills.

Setting an example? Integrity? A clear organizational structure?

:spit: :spit: :spit: :spit:

That's a bonus spit for the booze.

C'mon, Rev, you disagreeing with someone who has accomplished much as an owner, doesn't mean he's a drunk.

I'm not sure why people here think Bowlen is a drunk....that's not his rep in Denver.....just on the 'fan' boards and by those who disagree.

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 05:28 PM
C'mon, Rev, you disagreeing with someone who has accomplished much as an owner, doesn't mean he's a drunk.

I'm not sure why people here think Bowlen is a drunk....that's not his rep in Denver.....just on the 'fan' boards and by those who disagree.

A very trust worthy poster here has observed him in all his glory on multiple occasions. It's not just ragging on him, it truly is fact.

Yes, he has been a successful owner, but if you look at the root of it he's truly had 2 successes:

-Firing Reeves on behalf of the QB
-Wearing a disguise to hire Mike Shanahan while the 9ers were in their SB week

Is there any disputing that this off-season he's been inconsistent (and that's putting it nicely)? His organizational structure has changed MANY times this off-season and probably a big part of the backlash that's currently underway.

In bold because it's an absurdly reasonable take.

Bronx33
06-12-2009, 05:39 PM
What changed regarding Cutler?

That wasn't very fluid...

Bowlen claims Jay is the man and will be involved in the coaching decision

Bowlen hires Josh and doesn't remember if he spoke with Jay about it

Josh and Jay spend two weeks going over the offense

Josh tries to trade Jay for Cassell

Jay gets mad, leaves and formally requests trade, but states he will play for his teammates and show up to mandatory team activities

Jay gets traded


It appears you have it all figured out and know exactly how it all went down so what's the point of even talking about it any further you have basically givin up on pat as an owner when the team goes through some controversy. Basically IF this team does well and kicks some ass in the next 2 years and maybe proves you wrong ( you have already painted yourself in a corner) you catch my drift.

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 05:41 PM
It appears you have it all figured out and know exactly how it all went down so what's the point of even talking about it any further you have basically givin up on pat as an owner when the team goes through some controversy. Basically IF this team does well and kicks some ass in the next 2 years and maybe proves you wrong ( you have already painted yourself in a corner) you catch my drift.

I'd love to be wrong.

Also, instead of taking your passive aggressive sarcasm approach, perhaps instead try to refute it and cite your reasons as to why it was such a "fluid" situation and could possibly equate to a fire-fight?

DenverBrit
06-12-2009, 05:46 PM
A very trust worthy poster here has observed him in all his glory on multiple occasions. It's not just ragging on him, it truly is fact.

Yes, he has been a successful owner, but if you look at the root of it he's truly had 2 successes:

-Firing Reeves on behalf of the QB
-Wearing a disguise to hire Mike Shanahan while the 9ers were in their SB week

Is there any disputing that this off-season he's been inconsistent (and that's putting it nicely)? His organizational structure has changed MANY times this off-season and probably a big part of the backlash that's currently underway.

In bold because it's an absurdly reasonable take.

Super Bowls aren't a part of Bowlen's legacy??

His offseason hasn't been a thing of beauty, but who could have known he'd be caught up in Cutler's immaturity.
He made a decisive, executive decision and gave Cutler what he wanted.....a trade.

The FO has 'evolved', not changed MANY times.
As for the backlash currently underway, I doubt he gives a damn until non-club level seats go unsold.....that's not going to happen just because some fans disagree with the way he runs HIS business.
If they don't want to be fans anymore, hand over the season tickets, there are 11-13 thousand others on the waiting list.

As for observing "him in all his glory on multiple occasions" I must have missed those events.
Believe me, if that were his rep, it would be common knowledge by now......'social' groups in any town are the most vicious of gossips.

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 05:53 PM
Super Bowls aren't a part of Bowlen's legacy??

His offseason hasn't been a thing of beauty, but who could have known he'd be caught up in Cutler's immaturity.
He made a decisive, executive decision and gave Cutler what he wanted.....a trade.

The FO has 'evolved', not changed MANY times.
As for the backlash currently underway, I doubt he gives a damn until non-club level seats go unsold.....that's not going to happen just because some fans disagree with the way he runs HIS business.
If they don't want to be fans anymore, hand over the season tickets, there are 11-13 thousand others on the waiting list.

As for observing "him in all his glory on multiple occasions" I must have missed those events.
Believe me, if that were his rep, it would be common knowledge by now......'social' groups in any town are the most vicious of gossips.

Peruse the gutless drunk thread and you'll get the full story. It'll take a while, but I'm not someone that would betray someone's confidence (*cough* but TJ did *cough*)

As per the SBs: I'd say Mike had more to do with that, and that didn't buy him any leniency this off-season.

As for the rest of the post, here's the FO fluctuation I personally see:

Bowlen says he's re-taking his team in presser
Bowlen says the Goodmans will have a job
Bowlen hires McD and states the Goodmans will act as GM
Bowlen fires the Goodmans and promotes Xanders
Bowlen does not attend meeting with disgruntled star QB trusting his coach and GM with it
Bowlen says McD made rookie mistakes (and no, we have no idea what he meant by that, BUT see next point)
Bowlen is now involved in meetings with disgruntled star WR

That's a lot of changing. If you call that evolving, so be it.

BroncoDoug
06-12-2009, 05:59 PM
By the way... How can anyone call themselves a Broncos fan and not have the Broncos Insider text service in this day and age? How else will you know when to go running - not walking to the Mane!?

exactly!! I also have texting about the Broncos from NFL mobile, and they send me like 6 texts a day about random bronco stuff!!

footstepsfrom#27
06-12-2009, 06:02 PM
As for the backlash currently underway, I doubt he gives a damn until non-club level seats go unsold.....that's not going to happen just because some fans disagree with the way he runs HIS business.
If they don't want to be fans anymore, hand over the season tickets, there are 11-13 thousand others on the waiting list.
I'm not so sure that's completely accurate, not like it once was. This is a different fan base at Invesco, much of it corporate and affluent, not the blue collar lunch bucket types that used to show up. More expensive tickets, a differnt atmosphere, a reeling economy and now the perception evolving...rightly or wrongly...that maybe it's about money now instead of winning.

NFL teams have gone down the tubes on less.

Northman
06-12-2009, 06:15 PM
What changed regarding Cutler?

That wasn't very fluid...

Bowlen claims Jay is the man

Jay demonstrates his displeasure of Shanahan's firing.

Bowlen hires Josh.

Jay demonstrates even more displeasure of the removal of Bates

Josh and Jay spend two weeks going over the offense

Josh entertains a trade offer for Jay for Cassell and then stating that no player is above the team concept.

Jay gets mad, leaves and formally requests trade, but states he will play for his teammates and show up to mandatory team activities

Team officials and players try to get a hold of Jay by telephone and get no response in a course of 10 days.

Jay gets traded



Edited for accuracy

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 06:26 PM
Edited for accuracy

Fair enough. Does not change the point, though.

footstepsfrom#27
06-12-2009, 06:30 PM
Edited for what we were told by Pat Bowlen
Edited for accuracy.

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 06:31 PM
Edited for accuracy.

It could be true.

Remember, they "have the phone records"... because this is kindergarten not a multi-billion dollar empire.

DenverBrit
06-12-2009, 06:37 PM
Peruse the gutless drunk thread and you'll get the full story. It'll take a while, but I'm not someone that would betray someone's confidence (*cough* but TJ did *cough*)


I did but couldn't see TJs post 'outing anyone' but I did find a couple of your love notes to Bowlen. Ha!

(i) Pat Bowlen might be the dumbest mother ****er in the history of professional sports. (ii)well, I'd probably term it "Sloppy, dumb drunk".
LOL
As per the SBs: I'd say Mike had more to do with that, and that didn't buy him any leniency this off-season.

Didn't Bowlen hire Mike and give him the cash to build the SB teams? It's Bowlens franchise and so it's a part of his legacy. He deserves credit as much as he deserves blame.

As for the rest of the post, here's the FO fluctuation I personally see:

Bowlen says he's re-taking his team in presser
Bowlen says the Goodmans will have a job
Bowlen hires McD and states the Goodmans will act as GM
Bowlen fires the Goodmans and promotes Xanders
Bowlen does not attend meeting with disgruntled star QB trusting his coach and GM with it
Bowlen says McD made rookie mistakes (and no, we have no idea what he meant by that, BUT see next point)
Bowlen is now involved in meetings with disgruntled star WR

That's a lot of changing. If you call that evolving, so be it.

I think it was pretty clear at the time that Bowlen intended to keep the Goodmans in place, but after Xanders and McPoopyPants took over, they apparently didn't like the Goodmans approach.....or just didn't get along.

Someone had to go and it wasn't going to be the new HC Bowlen hired to replace Shanny.


Maybe I missed TJs post outing his source, but I have to believe my own eyes too. He likes a drink, but I've never seen him visibly drunk nor is he considered a drunk......and certainly not 'gutless'. ;D

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 06:38 PM
Maybe I missed TJs post outing his source, but I have to believe my own eyes too. He likes a drink, but I've never seen him visibly drunk nor is he considered a drunk......and certainly not 'gutless'. ;D

No applause necessary.

DenverBrit
06-12-2009, 06:43 PM
No applause necessary.

?

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 06:48 PM
?

Your LOL towards my Bowlen statements (which have become more apparent every passing day since then).

Your mention of Bowlen getting credit for hiring Shanahan (and if you flip back, you can see I actually mentioned that as one of his 2 good moves).

And then your attempt to transition that final statement into an acceptable move.

So, yes. You're welcome. And no applause necessary.

DenverBrit
06-12-2009, 07:05 PM
Your LOL towards my Bowlen statements (which have become more apparent every passing day since then).

Your statements about Bowlen were comical.

Your mention of Bowlen getting credit for hiring Shanahan (and if you flip back, you can see I actually mentioned that as one of his 2 good moves).

But the SB teams are not a part of Bowlen's legacy??

And then your attempt to transition that final statement into an acceptable move.

Acceptable move?? If you attend fundraisers in Denver you'll run into the Bowlens, that's all. http://www.blacktie-colorado.com/

So, yes. You're welcome. And no applause necessary.
Agreed, no applause warranted.


I don't expect to change your mind about Bowlen, but your bitterness goes back to the Shanny firing.......or maybe further.
Gotta let go sometime.

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 07:16 PM
I don't expect to change your mind about Bowlen, but your bitterness goes back to the Shanny firing.......or maybe further.
Gotta let go sometime.

It's let go.

Sadly, it's been a constant barrage ever since:

Firing the Goodmans

Trading Cutler

Trading next yrs first for Alphonso Smith. Trading up for another blocking TE in the bottom of the second.

Now this...

Listen, here's a very simple view at Bowlen and his backbone.

Publicly states he's taking his team back and Jay Cutler is the man around here and the Goodmans would be acting as GM.
Hires Josh, Goodmans get fired, and then is absent during talks with Jay.
Jay gets traded.
Says Josh made rookie mistakes and now he's AT the meetings with disgruntled players.

You can interpret those FACTS and direct QUOTES however you'd like, but it's apparent Pat did NOT take his team back... the only parts of his presser that he was emphatic about publicly ended up with the OPPOSITE taking place. There's no disputing that really.

There's disputing this because it's my opinion: His recent re-emergence into the operations of the team say to me that he's regretting letting some people have so much lenience, but that's just my take (though heavily supported actions).

FireFly
06-12-2009, 07:58 PM
If he is looking to become more involved in the running of the team than he already is, I'm a little concerned. While I don't agree with everything Rev is saying, I think he makes some really valid points.

IMO, he's rolled the dice on McDaniels and his best bet is to stand back see what happens and move or not move at the END of the up coming season. Too many cooks spoil the broth. When owners get too involved bad things happen. You have to be able to trust your HC and GM. Bowlen hired them, now he should wait and see where it takes us.

Bronx33
06-12-2009, 08:09 PM
I'd love to be wrong.

Also, instead of taking your passive aggressive sarcasm approach, perhaps instead try to refute it and cite your reasons as to why it was such a "fluid" situation and could possibly equate to a fire-fight?


Ok i merely was trying to say with cook/cutler irratic positions from day to day pat probably stated things he thought should be easy/done deal but were f***** up by bus and the kid making pat look foolish meaning bus/the kid had other motives from the start ( which ended up being true).

Basically pat had to addapt from day to day based on what bus/the kid were handing him which was my corolation to the marines ( are you with me?) or are you going to continue to play dumb and pretend you don't understand what the marines do. ( i really can't believe i would have to explain this) but i understand why ;) and iam not being funny.

footstepsfrom#27
06-12-2009, 08:25 PM
It's let go.

Sadly, it's been a constant barrage ever since:

Firing the Goodmans

Trading Cutler

Trading next yrs first for Alphonso Smith. Trading up for another blocking TE in the bottom of the second.

Now this...

Listen, here's a very simple view at Bowlen and his backbone.

Publicly states he's taking his team back and Jay Cutler is the man around here and the Goodmans would be acting as GM.
Hires Josh, Goodmans get fired, and then is absent during talks with Jay.
Jay gets traded.
Says Josh made rookie mistakes and now he's AT the meetings with disgruntled players.

You can interpret those FACTS and direct QUOTES however you'd like, but it's apparent Pat did NOT take his team back... the only parts of his presser that he was emphatic about publicly ended up with the OPPOSITE taking place. There's no disputing that really.

There's disputing this because it's my opinion: His recent re-emergence into the operations of the team say to me that he's regretting letting some people have so much lenience, but that's just my take (though heavily supported actions).
Bowlen's actions outside the public spotlight, apart from quotes and letters to fans, and press conferences exhibit other issues that cast his credibility in some serious doubt.

Having said this, Pat could recapture a lot of confidence in his leadership if he does exactly what he said, which is to re-asert control with a firm hand and let it be known that he's the one settling player contract issues after it's all said and done.

Taco John
06-12-2009, 08:37 PM
I can't remember... was Bowlen supposed to be involved in player situations or not?

When he wasn't, people got pissy.

When he is, people get pissy.


Sometimes I get this crazy idea that some people just want to be pissy.

Naahhh. Probably not.



I actually didn't notice anyone getting pissy about this. I know I didn't. All that I did was make the observation of the policy change.

So what do you think - should Pat Bowlen be involved in important player negatiations, or should he leave it to the rookie coach? It would appear that his policy on that is different than it was a month ago.

TheReverend
06-12-2009, 09:55 PM
Ok i merely was trying to say with cook/cutler irratic positions from day to day pat probably stated things he thought should be easy/done deal but were ****** up by bus and the kid making pat look foolish meaning bus/the kid had other motives from the start ( which ended up being true).

Basically pat had to addapt from day to day based on what bus/the kid were handing him which was my corolation to the marines ( are you with me?) or are you going to continue to play dumb and pretend you don't understand what the marines do. ( i really can't believe i would have to explain this) but i understand why ;) and iam not being funny.

That's one take. It's also quite possible that Jay was right, and that McD never actually took him off the table, and was going to do this regardless from the start.

It doesn't matter what's right or wrong. End result is the same regardless.

And, no, Pat shouldn't have to adapt his business model for what the coach or an agent is handing him.

Every bit of this should've been handled over the interview process, and in great depth.

Clearly, it was not.

Northman
06-13-2009, 12:08 PM
Edited for accuracy.

So i guess Bowlen, McD, and the rest of his teammates are in a conspiracy against poor Jay? :giggle: :rofl:

Northman
06-13-2009, 12:10 PM
Fair enough. Does not change the point, though.


Well, it sort of does. McD screwed the pooch from the beginning while Jay managed to screw it in the end. When all was said and done Jay didnt want to be a Bronco even though he made the claim he plays for his teammates and not his coach. When his teammates try to call him and get no answer i think thats pretty self explanatory about Jay as a teammate.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 12:12 PM
Well, it sort of does. McD screwed the pooch from the beginning while Jay managed to screw it in the end. When all was said and done Jay didnt want to be a Bronco even though he made the claim he plays for his teammates and not his coach. When his teammates try to call him and get no answer i think thats pretty self explanatory about Jay as a teammate.

No.

If he was truly the "man around here" than any potential issue involving the "man around [there]" should've been COMPLETELY clear in the interview process and the situation should've never even arisen.

The end.

Northman
06-13-2009, 12:29 PM
No.

If he was truly the "man around here" than any potential issue involving the "man around [there]" should've been COMPLETELY clear in the interview process and the situation should've never even arisen.

The end.


Unfortuantely it did, with both Bowlen and McD trying to get together with him to talk about it. Jay however, didnt want to do that. So in the end he couldnt get over his insecurities.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 12:46 PM
Unfortuantely it did, with both Bowlen and McD trying to get together with him to talk about it. Jay however, didnt want to do that. So in the end he couldnt get over his insecurities.

Anubis...

You can't be ****ing serious...

Northman
06-13-2009, 12:58 PM
Anubis...

You can't be ****ing serious...

Dude, come on. If Jay really wanted to be a Bronco he would of been one. You mean to tell me that Jay Cutler couldnt even do what Brandon Marshall just did by meeting with Bowlen? You know better than that man.

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 01:01 PM
So i guess Bowlen, McD, and the rest of his teammates are in a conspiracy against poor Jay? :giggle: :rofl:
Just correcting your assumption that's all.

Northman
06-13-2009, 01:03 PM
Just correcting your assumption that's all.

Emm, no. No assumption. Those were things that were directly quoted from Jay and sources outside of Bowlen and McD.

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 01:03 PM
So what do you think - should Pat Bowlen be involved in important player negatiations, or should he leave it to the rookie coach? It would appear that his policy on that is different than it was a month ago.

It's an excellent development ... Josh is obviously a bit too brash, a team-first tough guy.

Pat on the other hand must be VERY anxious not to lose any more star players. I think B-Marsh and Weigmann - our only two Pro-Bowlers other than Jay - will get some kinds of deals done with Pat on the point.

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 01:06 PM
Emm, no. No assumption. Those were things that were directly quoted from Jay and sources outside of Bowlen and McD.
You said you KNOW what happened, and it was based on what you've read, heard, etc...so yeah...since you weren't there, that's an assumption.

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 01:09 PM
So what do you think - should Pat Bowlen be involved in important player negatiations, or should he leave it to the rookie coach? It would appear that his policy on that is different than it was a month ago.
What? No Brian Xanders?

After seeing Pat's reluctance to pay more than 6 cents on the dollar for Marshall, perhaps it doesn't matter either way.

Northman
06-13-2009, 01:11 PM
You said you KNOW what happened, and it was based on what you've read, heard, etc...so yeah...since you weren't there, that's an assumption.

But i was there. Im there everyday.

~Crash~
06-13-2009, 01:19 PM
I can't remember... was Bowlen supposed to be involved in player situations or not?

When he wasn't, people got pissy.

When he is, people get pissy.


Sometimes I get this crazy idea that some people just want to be pissy.

Naahhh. Probably not.

who is being pissy it seems like you ...lol

~Crash~
06-13-2009, 01:19 PM
I agree with pops people just frustrated by 3 yrs of crap, then Cutler gets them excited, then he's gone, Shanny's gone, people just venting.

Only one thing can cure the Broncos fanbase and that's getting back into playoffs and being a contender again.

with what ?:spit: :spit: :spit:

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 01:21 PM
But i was there. Im there everyday.
Nice to meet you Josh.

~Crash~
06-13-2009, 01:26 PM
What changed regarding Cutler?

That wasn't very fluid...

Bowlen claims Jay is the man and will be involved in the coaching decision

Bowlen hires Josh and doesn't remember if he spoke with Jay about it

Josh and Jay spend two weeks going over the offense

Josh tries to trade Jay for Cassell

Jay gets mad, leaves and formally requests trade, but states he will play for his teammates and show up to mandatory team activities

Jay gets traded

you forgot one little thing they trade Cutler just before he said he would show up fore his teamates but he said that he would not need to because the Broncos did not want him . that they would trade him before mandatory team activities... I wonder if the Goodmans tip him off ....:curtsey:

Northman
06-13-2009, 01:30 PM
Nice to meet you Josh.

Well, at least you still have a sense of humor.

Cito Pelon
06-13-2009, 01:41 PM
No.

If he was truly the "man around here" than any potential issue involving the "man around [there]" should've been COMPLETELY clear in the interview process and the situation should've never even arisen.

The end.

Bowlen threw the dog a bone. The dog seemed to think that meant he was the master.

Cito Pelon
06-13-2009, 01:52 PM
It's an excellent development ... Josh is obviously a bit too brash, a team-first tough guy.

Pat on the other hand must be VERY anxious not to lose any more star players. I think B-Marsh and Weigmann - our only two Pro-Bowlers other than Jay - will get some kinds of deals done with Pat on the point.

No doubt Bowlen is inserting himself in the transition period. Bowlen is gonna weigh in on how he wants this team run. Transition period is the key phrase. I don't have a problem with Bowlen showing who is the power behind the throne. The players don't care either. All they want is stability. They have stability in the coaching staff, they know one or two guys are making some noise, but it doesn't affect them at all.

This is gonna be a pretty good team.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 02:34 PM
Dude, come on. If Jay really wanted to be a Bronco he would of been one. You mean to tell me that Jay Cutler couldnt even do what Brandon Marshall just did by meeting with Bowlen? You know better than that man.

Who really cares?

You want the guy? He stays. You work it out when he's in town for the mandatory activities he said he was going to show up to.

Wahhh, he won't answer the phone, wahhh!

I'll show him by trading him and hurt the value of my business with an emotional and rash decision!

Way to go...

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 02:35 PM
Bowlen threw the dog a bone. The dog seemed to think that meant he was the master.

But he didn't anything that he said was going to. He said he would throw the dog a bone... and didn't.

Popps
06-13-2009, 03:10 PM
I actually didn't notice anyone getting pissy about this. I know I didn't. .

You didn't notice Lie-DetectorGate, either.

People DID get angry when Bowlen didn't take the Cutler situation by the horns. (Though, many of us believe he was doing so behind the scenes as much as any owner would.)

Then, when Bowlen IS directly involved with some player talks, we've got a big sob-fest around here about that.


Again, people want things to be pissy about. Some folks just aren't going to be happy unless they can put a negative spin on anything that happens from here out.

Can't wait to see these folks if this team shows promise of improving. It should be fun to watch the squirming.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 03:19 PM
The thread title is pissy if you ask me.

Taco John
06-13-2009, 03:52 PM
Can't wait to see these folks if this team shows promise of improving. It should be fun to watch the squirming.


You think celebrating will look like squirming?

Taco John
06-13-2009, 03:54 PM
The thread title is pissy if you ask me.

It wasn't intended to be. I find the power structure of the organization very interesting, and this was a new development worth noting as far as that goes.

That said, I did think that it was incredibly dopey that Pat wasn't involved in that Cutler meeting. I'm not disappointed that he sat in here given Josh's inexperience with interpersonal player situations. It would be a shame to see two major Josh failures before he's even coached a single game. Taking control is the right thing for Pat to do.

Northman
06-13-2009, 04:20 PM
!

I'll show him by trading him and hurt the value of my business with an emotional and rash decision!

Way to go...

You mean the same emotional and rash decision that Jay made about McD when heard of the trade rumor? :welcome:

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 04:23 PM
It wasn't intended to be. I find the power structure of the organization very interesting, and this was a new development worth noting as far as that goes.

That said, I did think that it was incredibly dopey that Pat wasn't involved in that Cutler meeting. I'm not disappointed that he sat in here given Josh's inexperience with interpersonal player situations. It would be a shame to see two major Josh failures before he's even coached a single game. Taking control is the right thing for Pat to do.


I agree he really should be hands on givin the situation with josh being a rookie coach maybe he gave josh too much leash at the start ( who knows) and just so ya know the thread title kinda says your questioning pat and he should not be involved based on your other thread and his drunkness :wiggle:

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 04:37 PM
You mean the same emotional and rash decision that Jay made about McD when heard of the trade rumor? :welcome:

Glad to know you'd equate our Headcoach's maturity level to a professional athlete almost a decade younger than him. :welcome:

Would you like to be owned some more, my friend?

Taco John
06-13-2009, 04:40 PM
...and just so ya know the thread title kinda says your questioning pat and he should not be involved based on your other thread and his drunkness :wiggle:

Oh, I'm definitely questioning Pat. I think he's putting his HOF credentials on the line here with this entire debacle of an off-season. I think it's a real shame, and hope that Josh manages to pull his bacon out of the fire.

No one was a bigger fan of Pat Bowlen than I was prior to January.

Northman
06-13-2009, 04:41 PM
Glad to know you'd equate our Headcoach's maturity level to a professional athlete almost a decade younger than him. :welcome:

Would you like to be owned some more, my friend?

By all means, give me some of that aids spray my friend.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 04:42 PM
By all means, give me some of that aids spray my friend.

Judging from your POV, your judgment is already in dire need of some AZT

Cito Pelon
06-13-2009, 04:53 PM
But he didn't anything that he said was going to. He said he would throw the dog a bone... and didn't.

Northman got you, now your just barely hanging on.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 04:56 PM
Northman got you, now your just barely hanging on.

:rofl:

When? Your stupidity never ceases to amaze me.

Northman
06-13-2009, 05:01 PM
Judging from your POV, your judgment is already in dire need of some AZT

Ha! Ha!

Your my hero. haha, nice

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 05:02 PM
Ha! Ha!

Your my hero. haha, nice

You're. :kiss:

Cito Pelon
06-13-2009, 05:39 PM
:rofl:

When? Your stupidity never ceases to amaze me.

You apparently didn't notice Northman rubbing your nose in your own dung, Jack. I recall Florida Bronco rubbing your nose in your own dung not long ago also, Jack.

Don't get too carried away trying to be a badass, Jack, you get your nose rubbed into the dirt too often to pull it off, Jack.

Popps
06-13-2009, 05:40 PM
The thread title is pissy if you ask me.

Think?

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 05:40 PM
You apparently didn't notice Northman rubbing your nose in your own dung, Jack. I recall Florida Bronco rubbing your nose in your own dung not long ago also, Jack.

Don't get too carried away trying to be a badass, Jack, you get your nose rubbed into the dirt too often to pull it off, Jack.

I wonder what realm of reality you live in...

Cito Pelon
06-13-2009, 05:57 PM
I wonder what realm of reality you live in...

Hey, Jack, tell us about the 4-3 DE's that start from a 4-point stance. You said all the best 4-3 DE's start from a 4-point stance. Name them.

Tell us about that Jack position DJ will be playing at OLB.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 06:04 PM
Hey, Jack, tell us about the 4-3 DE's that start from a 4-point stance. You said all the best 4-3 DE's start from a 4-point stance. Name them.

Tell us about that Jack position DJ will be playing at OLB.

Mario Williams was one of his examples. He happens to spend the majority of his time in a 4 point... nice try though Cito.

Also, the term "Jack" refers to an OLB spot. Find one example other than here this season where it's been used with an ILB... but you can't. Because it doesn't.

Especially not in the Saban style D we're coming from.

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 06:15 PM
.Can't wait to see these folks if this team shows promise of improving. It should be fun to watch the squirming.
I hear that a lot from your side. Of course you realize it cuts both ways don't you?

TonyR
06-13-2009, 06:16 PM
A very trust worthy poster here has observed him in all his glory on multiple occasions. It's not just ragging on him, it truly is fact.


Same with Jay and yet you run to his defense every time somebody brings that "fact" up.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 06:19 PM
Same with Jay and yet you run to his defense every time somebody brings that "fact" up.

No, I don't. I fully believe he drank before games.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 06:20 PM
No, I don't. I fully believe he drank before games.



yes you do ( every time)

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 06:23 PM
yes you do ( every time)

More "nu uh!" without posting an example.

Bravo!

FYI, when someone claimed their "friend saw him", no I don't buy that, but I have received a PM from someone I trust that has personally seen him. That person knows who he is, and I believe what he said.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 06:24 PM
PS. Learn what parenthesis are used for, you moronic douche-bag.

TonyR
06-13-2009, 06:28 PM
After seeing Pat's reluctance to pay more than 6 cents on the dollar for Marshall...

I keep seeing you post this nonsense all over the place. Allow me to interject some rational thought into your "thinking".

Let's say you manage or, god forbid, own a business. Would you gamble with the company's money? Let me give you a more concrete example. Let's say you had an employee who was very productive in the past and perhaps wasn't compensated commensurate with their contribution. But now this employee has multiple issues which could very possibly reduce said employee's ability to perform the job at the same level, and may actually make it so the employee cannot perform their job. Is now the time you'd give this employee guaranteed compensation and a raise? If so, I pity the shareholders of your employer. Clearly the better business decision is to wait and see how these issues play out and then reward the employee for their performance. Frankly I'm shocked that something so straightforward appears to be so far out of your grasp.

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 06:29 PM
You think celebrating will look like squirming?

Popps is so obviously all geared up with his twisted plan on how he's gonna "win" all these arguments we've all had in here the past couple months. He's lying in wait right now, ready to lash out after the first pre-season victory with loud, abrasive "I told you so! I told you so!" childish nonsense. Actually, it's quite like the Bush administration characterizing any dissent as "unpatriotic," where in fact history shows you're a BETTER American for dasking questoins and dissenting ... and I'll extend that here, we're better fans for dissenting and questioning moves.

Our questioning has proven correct, even these past couple days: Josh's double-talk on starting quarterbacks, and this thread ... Pat has taken the point perhaps because he no longer trusts Josh and his pet boy Brian to handle off-field player situations.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 06:31 PM
PS. Learn what parenthesis are used for, you moronic douche-bag.


Do you drink heavily when you post or are you a natural a-hole really dude what the **** is your problem are you on a ***** mission or something please tell me so others can learn what not to do.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 06:32 PM
Do you drink heavily when you post or are you a natural a-hole really dude what the **** is your problem are you on a ***** mission or something please tell me so others can learn what not to do.

Oh, I'm exactly like this in real life.

Most people deserve to be abused, in my opinion. Social Darwinism exists and is very real.

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 06:34 PM
Sheesh ... mellow please, guys. It's a football thread after all.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 06:36 PM
Oh, I'm exactly like this in real life.

Most people deserve to be abused, in my opinion. Social Darwinism exists and is very real.



Come to denver so i can have a beer with you ( i'll buy) that is if you can get past my poor grammer but iam really a cool guy ask meck.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 06:37 PM
;D Sheesh ... mellow please, guys. It's a football thread after all.



Iam fine with it sadly rev don't like others opinions/spelling.

footstepsfrom#27
06-13-2009, 06:40 PM
I keep seeing you post this nonsense all over the place. Allow me to interject some rational thought into your "thinking".

Let's say you manage or, god forbid, own a business.
As it happens, I do.
Would you gamble with the company's money? Let me give you a more concrete example. Let's say you had an employee who was very productive in the past and perhaps wasn't compensated commensurate with their contribution. But now this employee has multiple issues which could very possibly reduce said employee's ability to perform the job at the same level, and may actually make it so the employee cannot perform their job. Is now the time you'd give this employee guaranteed compensation and a raise? If so, I pity the shareholders of your employer. Clearly the better business decision is to wait and see how these issues play out and then reward the employee for their performance. Frankly I'm shocked that something so straightforward appears to be so far out of your grasp.
Here's something clearly outside your grasp; the NFL is not a normal business. The same principles that guide market conditions in the real world are largely absent here.

But thanks for the advice Mr. Trump.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 07:07 PM
Come to denver so i can have a beer with you ( i'll buy) that is if you can get past my poor grammer but iam really a cool guy ask meck.

At some point I will, and you will certainly buy :)

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 07:13 PM
At some point I will, and you will certainly buy :)


you book it ( i will look you in the eye ) now go play with your kid like you said.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 07:14 PM
you book it ( i will look you in the eye )

That's a good attitude to have.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 07:16 PM
That's a good attitude to have.


Don't get soft on me now f***head.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 07:18 PM
Don't get soft on me now ****head.

The last thing that will ever happen...

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 07:28 PM
The last thing that will ever happen...

Do me a favor in the future and give the the same respect i give you though we might disagree i hold back on calling you a stupid **** most every single post :clown: and if that's not acceptable ( kiss my ass ) but i do as a fellow bronco fan deserve a little respect ( kinda like your first DI) Ha!

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 07:36 PM
Do me a favor in the future and give the the same respect i give you though we might disagree i hold back on calling you a stupid **** most every single post :clown: and if that's not acceptable ( kiss my ass ) but i do as a fellow bronco fan deserve a little respect ( kinda like your first DI) Ha!

I don't make promises I can't keep... realistically, that's gonna happen again, but it's more up to you than me :angel: arguing some auxiliary footnote instead of addressing the points of the post causes that. Just how I'm wired, I suppose, but I admittedly do LOVE IT when things escalate like that online and in real life.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 07:40 PM
I don't make promises I can't keep... realistically, that's gonna happen again, but it's more up to you than me :angel: arguing some auxiliary footnote instead of addressing the points of the post causes that. Just how I'm wired, I suppose, but I admittedly do LOVE IT when things escalate like that online and in real life.



I can tell and i can also tell you it's not a good quality.

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 07:42 PM
I can tell and i can also tell you it's not a good quality.

Somehow I get by...

Quit hi-jacking a Bowlen thread with an e-feelings discussion, please.

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 07:47 PM
Somehow I get by...

Quit hi-jacking a Bowlen thread with an e-feelings discussion, please.


ok:curtsey:

Pat Bowlen
06-13-2009, 07:50 PM
Get a room, you two. This thread is about me.

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 07:52 PM
Lol

Bronx33
06-13-2009, 07:54 PM
Lol


I concur...

TheReverend
06-13-2009, 08:06 PM
Get a room, you two. This thread is about me.

You gotta be beantown...

~Crash~
06-13-2009, 09:21 PM
You mean the same emotional and rash decision that Jay made about McD when heard of the trade rumor? :welcome:

lol how is that I don't get how you can say that ....he was told that Mcliar wanted to move Cutler from the Goodman's he told us that there was no use in showing up that he was getting traded before the mandatory camps ... man.....

~Crash~
06-13-2009, 09:28 PM
Get a room, you two. This thread is about me.

Up yours you ****ing drunk. You almost made me a drunk earlier this year you wean bait. Also watch out you are starting to sound like al davis but a poor assed version

~Crash~
06-13-2009, 09:30 PM
I wish the team would get sold at this point.

theAPAOps5
06-13-2009, 09:32 PM
Up yours you ****ing drunk. You almost made me a drunk earlier this year you wean bait. Also watch out you are starting to sound like al davis but a poor assed version

Wow what an embarrassment to this site. This ignorant hick has me on ignore maybe I should return the favor. Even if that isn't the real Pat Bowlen this is sad. The man who brought Denver 2 SB's and you talk like this.

You need to learn some manners you inbred ****.

outdoor_miner
06-13-2009, 10:42 PM
Our questioning has proven correct, even these past couple days: Josh's double-talk on starting quarterbacks, and this thread ... Pat has taken the point perhaps because he no longer trusts Josh and his pet boy Brian to handle off-field player situations.

Asked in another thread, but can anyone provide a quote where McDaniels said he wasn't in a hurry? I seriously can't find anything. That article looks like something that the journalist created based on the delay in naming a starter.

Here's what the article said:

In reality, McDaniels seems in no rush to name a leader in the quest to replace Jay Cutler.
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12581252

It seems like an editorial spin to the fact that McD hadn't named anyone. Did I miss something else?

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 11:11 PM
I aslso answered in another thread, that I explain here: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2443808#post2443808

But your second quote, "In reality, McDaniels seems in no rush to name a leader in the quest to replace Jay Cutler." seems to back me up.

I believe he's said at other times the competition would go into training camp, but the main point here is: Josh can name the starter WHENEVER he wants... he doesn't owe anybody a detailed agenda on such decisions. I would just prefer to be asble too get some info from him, to trust what he says. I'm not there yet.

TonyR
06-14-2009, 09:35 AM
Here's something clearly outside your grasp; the NFL is not a normal business. The same principles that guide market conditions in the real world are largely absent here.


What's interesting here is that one of the major differences between the NFL and a "normal business" actually further supports my argument and further invalidate yours. In the "real world" the employee in my example can leave whenever they want and take another job, so the employer risks losing the employee. In the Broncos case the "employee" in question can't go anywhere this season, and possibly next season either. So the Broncos actually have more control in this situation than a "real world" business would.

DenverBrit
06-14-2009, 10:06 AM
Asked in another thread, but can anyone provide a quote where McDaniels said he wasn't in a hurry? I seriously can't find anything. That article looks like something that the journalist created based on the delay in naming a starter.

Here's what the article said:


http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12581252

It seems like an editorial spin to the fact that McD hadn't named anyone. Did I miss something else?

No, you've got it right IMO.

Some get confused by editorial comment..... is not a 'quote'....it's opinion or a headline.

I don't recall McDaniels ever saying that the starter wouldn't be named until the end of training camp....or any other time.

Saying that the competition will go on is exactly what will happen.