PDA

View Full Version : 9 signings GMs will regret the most


Mr.Meanie
06-11-2009, 11:49 AM
Nine signings that GMs will regret the most
by John Czarnecki

We keep hearing that teams (well, the owners) can't wait for 2010, the so-called uncapped season, because they will use the opportunity to drastically reduce player salaries. It is the financial black cloud hanging over any future collective bargaining negotiations. The owners view it as their big hammer, the biggest negotiating tool they can use to show the players how life and a lower payroll will be without a ballooning salary cap.

Of course, the union is snickering at these claims. They don't believe the owners, many of them who want to be competitive, will be able to really control themselves. They have never shown any signs in the past. In every free-agency period, they have thrown cash around like it is Monopoly money while the players laugh all the way to the nearest bank.
They did it again this year, judging by the following — this offseason's riskiest signings.


1. WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Seahawks: Yes, Housh led the Bengals last season with 92 receptions, but only for a paltry 9.8 yards a catch and four touchdowns. Yes, he is a solid receiver, but Seattle paid him like he's a No. 1 receiver, and at 32 years old he'll make $7 million. Next season the price tag rises to $8 million plus.

In a bidding war, he was able to collect $14.5 million over two seasons. The Seahawks have this thing about paying decent receivers, thinking they are as good as Larry Fitzgerald or Steve Smith. They did the same, exact thing with Deion Branch a few years back.

2. C Jake Grove, Dolphins: This ex-Oakland center and former second-round pick is a blue-collar type player, the kind that Bill Parcells loves ... when he plays, that is.

Grove missed 14 of 32 games over the last two seasons with the Raiders, yet based on that dependency he was rewarded with $14.5 million in guaranteed money. I have said all along that offensive linemen have been rewarded the most during the halcyon days of free agency. One team's good player is paid by another team as some superstar.

3. CB Andre Goodman, Broncos: This cornerback was a very average player in his first few years in the league, but he started 16 games last season in Miami and had his best year with five interceptions, the most in his seven-year career. He has 12 overall. In seven seasons.

Yet the Broncos stepped up and rewarded Goodman with a $10 million signing bonus. Believe me, he's no Champ Bailey. And he isn't that great in man-to-man coverage. Expect him to get burned by the Chargers.

4. WR Michael Clayton, Buccaneers: This receiver has been a disappointment ever since his 2004 season when he was the Offensive Rookie of the Year in Tampa Bay. Yes, he has the size (6-4 and 215) to be spectacular, but he has only two touchdown catches in the last four years.

He only had 38 catches for 484 yards last year, but the Bucs were so afraid of losing him that they gave him a $26 million contract over five seasons with $10.5 million guaranteed. Clayton loves the new offense and publicly ripped into former coach Jon Gruden. Well, Clayton had better be more productive. Tampa spent way too much money on a hunch that his production fell off solely because of not seeing eye-to-eye with Gruden.

5. S Gibril Wilson, Dolphins: The Dolphins once again are going for another so-called blue-collar player who started at safety for the Giants when they beat the Patriots. But the Giants allowed him to leave to Oakland last season, where he started and collected $8.4 million in bonuses. Al Davis couldn't wait to unload him after Wilson had just two interceptions and three fumble recoveries. Wilson doesn't run well, so Miami cut his bonus down to $5 million this year.

6. RB Cedric Benson, Bengals: This running back was finally run out of Chicago after being a first-round bust, but he's apparently found a home in Cincinnati, getting $7 million over the next two seasons.

The Bengals rewarded him for three 100-yard games last season, including 171 yards against the lowly Cleveland Browns in late December. He finished the year with 25 carries for 111 yards in another win against the Chiefs. But those were two of the league's worst run defenses a year ago. Rewarding Benson doesn't make much sense based on his past indiscretions and hefty bank account. He strikes me as a pay-as-you-go kind of player.

What does Marvin Lewis do if Cedric doesn't truly show up this season?

7. S Brian Dawkins, Broncos: I love this player, but $9.5 million over two years seems a tad much for a 36-year-old safety entering his 14th season with all those welts on his body after years of big hits. The Broncos are paying for his leadership, on and off the field. Knowing "Dawk," he will give it his all, wanting to prove to the Eagles that they made a mistake allowing him to leave.

8. C Jason Brown, Rams: The Rams are taking a lot of heat for signing this ex-Raven to a five-year, $37.5 million contract that includes $20 million in guarantees, including roster bonuses.

Remember, how financially rewarding free-agency has been to offensive linemen. Brown is only 26 and a solid 320 pounds, and the Rams, whose best player in running back Steven Jackson, were desperate for an anchor to their horrible offensive line. When you are a loser like the Rams, sometimes you have to overpay for quality.

The bottom line is that Baltimore wanted to keep him at this price. Instead, they gave perennial All-Pro Matt Birk $6 million, who was disliked by the Minnesota coaching staff, to replace him.

9. OT Orlando Pace, Bears: The Bears believe they got this former All-Pro for a bargain at $6 million for this season. Yes, he's a bargain if he can protect Jay Cutler like he used to protect Kurt Warner in St. Louis.

But what if his shoulders go out again? It's a lot of money for a former great player who started only nine games combined in the 2006-07 seasons.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9662424/Nine-signings-that-GMs-will-regret-the-most?MSNToolbar100


-------------
So let me get this straight... signing Dawkins and Goodman were bad signings? I think those are probably the 2 best signings. I guess we have to wait and see.

vancejohnson82
06-11-2009, 11:54 AM
who is supposedly burning him on the Chargers?

Vincent Jackson??

Bronco Rob
06-11-2009, 12:01 PM
3. CB Andre Goodman, Broncos: This cornerback was a very average player in his first few years in the league, but he started 16 games last season in Miami and had his best year with five interceptions, the most in his seven-year career. He has 12 overall. In seven seasons.

Yet the Broncos stepped up and rewarded Goodman with a $10 million signing bonus. Believe me, he's no Champ Bailey. And he isn't that great in man-to-man coverage. Expect him to get burned by the Chargers.


7. S Brian Dawkins, Broncos: I love this player, but $9.5 million over two years seems a tad much for a 36-year-old safety entering his 14th season with all those welts on his body after years of big hits. The Broncos are paying for his leadership, on and off the field. Knowing "Dawk," he will give it his all, wanting to prove to the Eagles that they made a mistake allowing him to leave.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

6.) The buzz-worthy move: Denver signs S Brian Dawkins
The under-the-radar move: Denver signs CB Andre Goodman


In Dawkins, the Broncos get a 12-time Pro Bowl selection and arguably the most beloved player in Philadelphia Eagles history. In Goodman, they get a potential breakout star that, despite being 30, is on the verge of becoming one of the NFL's better cornerbacks.


After battling a laundry list of ankle, knee and shoulder issues in previous seasons, Goodman stayed healthy and started 16 games for the miracle Dolphins last season. He led Miami in interceptions and passes defended in '08. Denver's got Champ Bailey at one corner spot and spent a future first-round pick on 2009 second-round selection Alphonso Smith. But don't sleep on Goodman. He could be the brightest star of all three in '09.



NFL - Best under-the-radar moves of the offseason - FOX Sports on MSN (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9616124/Best-under-the-radar-moves-of-the-offseason)






;D

Tombstone RJ
06-11-2009, 12:02 PM
who is supposedly burning him on the Chargers?

Vincent Jackson??

For starters, yes.

Punisher
06-11-2009, 12:02 PM
9. OT Orlando Pace, Bears: The Bears believe they got this former All-Pro for a bargain at $6 million for this season. Yes, he's a bargain if he can protect Jay Cutler like he used to protect Kurt Warner in St. Louis.

Maybe the biggest signing the Bears make this off season,because if Pace plays like a Pro Bowl LT this year. Cutler and Matt Forte will both have a great year but i just don't see Devin Hester Catching Rocket Bullets.

bronco militia
06-11-2009, 12:06 PM
1. WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Seahawks:

I don't agree at all with this one....

TonyR
06-11-2009, 12:08 PM
...because if Pace plays like a Pro Bowl LT this year...

Not happening.

Doggcow
06-11-2009, 12:30 PM
1. WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Seahawks:

I don't agree at all with this one....

TJ double covered = Deion Branch part 2

Gcver2ver3
06-11-2009, 12:35 PM
Goodman bad signing AND Dawkins?....so 2 of the top 9 worse signings are by one team (out of 32)?...

we play 14 other games other than SD...so why is it Goodman gets burned by the chargers?...

obvious charger fan...

EDIT: looks like he has the dolphins listed twice too...so 4 of the worst 9 are from 2 teams?...he must be angry over the loss to Miami too...

Spider
06-11-2009, 12:44 PM
Nine signings that GMs will regret the most
by John Czarnecki

We keep hearing that teams (well, the owners) can't wait for 2010, the so-called uncapped season, because they will use the opportunity to drastically reduce player salaries. It is the financial black cloud hanging over any future collective bargaining negotiations. The owners view it as their big hammer, the biggest negotiating tool they can use to show the players how life and a lower payroll will be without a ballooning salary cap.

Of course, the union is snickering at these claims. They don't believe the owners, many of them who want to be competitive, will be able to really control themselves. They have never shown any signs in the past. In every free-agency period, they have thrown cash around like it is Monopoly money while the players laugh all the way to the nearest bank.
They did it again this year, judging by the following this offseason's riskiest signings.


1. WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Seahawks: Yes, Housh led the Bengals last season with 92 receptions, but only for a paltry 9.8 yards a catch and four touchdowns. Yes, he is a solid receiver, but Seattle paid him like he's a No. 1 receiver, and at 32 years old he'll make $7 million. Next season the price tag rises to $8 million plus.

In a bidding war, he was able to collect $14.5 million over two seasons. The Seahawks have this thing about paying decent receivers, thinking they are as good as Larry Fitzgerald or Steve Smith. They did the same, exact thing with Deion Branch a few years back.

2. C Jake Grove, Dolphins: This ex-Oakland center and former second-round pick is a blue-collar type player, the kind that Bill Parcells loves ... when he plays, that is.

Grove missed 14 of 32 games over the last two seasons with the Raiders, yet based on that dependency he was rewarded with $14.5 million in guaranteed money. I have said all along that offensive linemen have been rewarded the most during the halcyon days of free agency. One team's good player is paid by another team as some superstar.

3. CB Andre Goodman, Broncos: This cornerback was a very average player in his first few years in the league, but he started 16 games last season in Miami and had his best year with five interceptions, the most in his seven-year career. He has 12 overall. In seven seasons.

Yet the Broncos stepped up and rewarded Goodman with a $10 million signing bonus. Believe me, he's no Champ Bailey. And he isn't that great in man-to-man coverage. Expect him to get burned by the Chargers.

4. WR Michael Clayton, Buccaneers: This receiver has been a disappointment ever since his 2004 season when he was the Offensive Rookie of the Year in Tampa Bay. Yes, he has the size (6-4 and 215) to be spectacular, but he has only two touchdown catches in the last four years.

He only had 38 catches for 484 yards last year, but the Bucs were so afraid of losing him that they gave him a $26 million contract over five seasons with $10.5 million guaranteed. Clayton loves the new offense and publicly ripped into former coach Jon Gruden. Well, Clayton had better be more productive. Tampa spent way too much money on a hunch that his production fell off solely because of not seeing eye-to-eye with Gruden.

5. S Gibril Wilson, Dolphins: The Dolphins once again are going for another so-called blue-collar player who started at safety for the Giants when they beat the Patriots. But the Giants allowed him to leave to Oakland last season, where he started and collected $8.4 million in bonuses. Al Davis couldn't wait to unload him after Wilson had just two interceptions and three fumble recoveries. Wilson doesn't run well, so Miami cut his bonus down to $5 million this year.

6. RB Cedric Benson, Bengals: This running back was finally run out of Chicago after being a first-round bust, but he's apparently found a home in Cincinnati, getting $7 million over the next two seasons.

The Bengals rewarded him for three 100-yard games last season, including 171 yards against the lowly Cleveland Browns in late December. He finished the year with 25 carries for 111 yards in another win against the Chiefs. But those were two of the league's worst run defenses a year ago. Rewarding Benson doesn't make much sense based on his past indiscretions and hefty bank account. He strikes me as a pay-as-you-go kind of player.

What does Marvin Lewis do if Cedric doesn't truly show up this season?

7. S Brian Dawkins, Broncos: I love this player, but $9.5 million over two years seems a tad much for a 36-year-old safety entering his 14th season with all those welts on his body after years of big hits. The Broncos are paying for his leadership, on and off the field. Knowing "Dawk," he will give it his all, wanting to prove to the Eagles that they made a mistake allowing him to leave.

8. C Jason Brown, Rams: The Rams are taking a lot of heat for signing this ex-Raven to a five-year, $37.5 million contract that includes $20 million in guarantees, including roster bonuses.

Remember, how financially rewarding free-agency has been to offensive linemen. Brown is only 26 and a solid 320 pounds, and the Rams, whose best player in running back Steven Jackson, were desperate for an anchor to their horrible offensive line. When you are a loser like the Rams, sometimes you have to overpay for quality.

The bottom line is that Baltimore wanted to keep him at this price. Instead, they gave perennial All-Pro Matt Birk $6 million, who was disliked by the Minnesota coaching staff, to replace him.

9. OT Orlando Pace, Bears: The Bears believe they got this former All-Pro for a bargain at $6 million for this season. Yes, he's a bargain if he can protect Jay Cutler like he used to protect Kurt Warner in St. Louis.

But what if his shoulders go out again? It's a lot of money for a former great player who started only nine games combined in the 2006-07 seasons.


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9662424/Nine-signings-that-GMs-will-regret-the-most?MSNToolbar100


-------------
So let me get this straight... signing Dawkins and Goodman were bad signings? I think those are probably the 2 best signings. I guess we have to wait and see.

Huh ? since when is a possession receiver a bad deal ?
Who is your momma has 9.8 yards average ? I would take that any day of the week and twice on Sundays , specially on 3 rd downs ......8 mill for a chain mover ? .........

broncofan2438
06-11-2009, 12:55 PM
More idiot sports writers

watermock
06-11-2009, 01:23 PM
More idiot sports writers

Ya, they're all idiots, right, every one of them, know what? Why not post some writers that think Mcdummy is a genius since coming to Denver?

I's a free forum.

Ya! Ve much teach das traitors a lesson for De Fuhrer! Ha!

Dawkins WAS an awesome saftey, behind a great front 7. He's also older than Lynch when we signed him.

Goodman? Fine, then why waste a probable top 10 on another corner in a much stronger draft?

SonOfLe-loLang
06-11-2009, 01:28 PM
Ya, they're all idiots, right, every one of them, know what? Why not post some writhers that think Mcdummy is a genius since coming to Denver?

I's a free forum.

Ya! Ve much teach das traitors a lesson for De Fuhrer! Ha!

Dawkins WAS an awesome saftey, behind a great front 7. He's also older than Lynch when we signed him.

Goodman? Fine, then why waste a probable top 10 on another corner in a much stronger draft?

You realize we get to keep our draft picks for more than one year, right?

vancejohnson82
06-11-2009, 01:29 PM
Ya, they're all idiots, right, every one of them, know what? Why not post some writhers that think Mcdummy is a genius since coming to Denver?

I's a free forum.

Ya! Ve much teach das traitors a lesson for De Fuhrer! Ha!

Dawkins WAS an awesome saftey, behind a great front 7. He's also older than Lynch when we signed him.

Goodman? Fine, then why waste a probable top 10 on another corner in a much stronger draft?


Exactly....especially when Champ has been so healthy the past few seasons...and since JMFW proved to be the next starting CB....;)

kamakazi_kal
06-11-2009, 01:30 PM
man, did we get any DL help yet......

kamakazi_kal
06-11-2009, 01:31 PM
Exactly....especially when Champ has been so healthy the past few seasons...and since JMFW proved to be the next starting CB....;)[/QUOTE]


cmon, champs been taking on fullbacks and and pulling guards while our line watched :giggle: what do you expect

Mr.Meanie
06-11-2009, 01:32 PM
Goodman? Fine, then why waste a probable top 10 on another corner in a much stronger draft?

The strategy is obviously to get some young talent at DB and have the veterans teach them up. Having Champ and Dawk (arguablly 2 of the best at their positions in the NFL) and another vet in Goodman mentoring these kids is going to drastically accellerate their learning curve.

Did you see Dawk's interview? He views his role on the team as being a teacher/mentor to the rookies, along with being a team leader and playmaker. That has to be one of the best moves the FO has made this offseason.

watermock
06-11-2009, 01:32 PM
You realize we get to keep our draft picks for more than one year, right?

I'm floored. Really?

It's 3 years for Scheff and Marshall, that the fact, and then it's God knows what, probably an uncappped year then a lockout.

The promised recovery isn't going to happen.

watermock
06-11-2009, 01:34 PM
The strategy is obviously to get some young talent at DB and have the veterans teach them up. Having Champ and Dawk (arguablly 2 of the best at their positions in the NFL) and another vet in Goodman mentoring these kids is going to drastically accellerate their learning curve.

Did you see Dawk's interview? He views his role on the team as being a teacher/mentor to the rookies, along with being a team leader and playmaker. That has to be one of the best moves the FO has made this offseason.

What are Champ and Dawkins going to teach corners how to cover for 6 seconds?

oubronco
06-11-2009, 01:36 PM
I think it was more about paying them too much

watermock
06-11-2009, 01:37 PM
The real point is the attitude"Just another idiot sportswriter".

It's a free forum, I suggest you post something positive besides players in goosestep.

oubronco
06-11-2009, 01:38 PM
The real point is the attitude"Just another idiot sportswriter".

It's a free forum, I suggest you post something positive besides players in goosestep.

as long as we can stop a fat man from rolling uphill on defense this year i'll be happy

SonOfLe-loLang
06-11-2009, 01:42 PM
I'm floored. Really?

It's 3 years for Scheff and Marshall, that the fact, and then it's God knows what, probably an uncappped year then a lockout.

The promised recovery isn't going to happen.

I think you are legitimately insane. I was commenting on why the selection of Smith and the signing of goodman have little to do with each other.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-11-2009, 01:47 PM
Lost in all the talk about our crappy defense, AT LEAST we are bigger. I was sick of seeing our small team get pushed around. This year we have some big boys in the front 7

Atlas
06-11-2009, 01:53 PM
The strategy is obviously to get some young talent at DB and have the veterans teach them up. Having Champ and Dawk (arguablly 2 of the best at their positions in the NFL) and another vet in Goodman mentoring these kids is going to drastically accellerate their learning curve.


The strategy is to get average secondary players so they can run around for 10 seconds trying to cover WRs because the DL is getting no pressure.

Dawkins is old and he wasn't a great cover safety when he was young. He was once one of the best but he isn't in the top 10 right now.

yerner
06-11-2009, 01:54 PM
i think its fair. i agree the point is that the broncos overpaid these older guys. if they help win then its fine. if not, its a mistake.

footstepsfrom#27
06-11-2009, 02:00 PM
I'm surprised Lonnie Paxton missed the cut.

watermock
06-11-2009, 02:06 PM
Lost in all the talk about our crappy defense, AT LEAST we are bigger. I was sick of seeing our small team get pushed around. This year we have some big boys in the front 7

Like who? Ayers projects as a 4/3 De, not OLB and not a 3/4 DE. Both Doom and Moss are totally worthless at OLB as well.

WW3? Talk about undesized, DJ? Certainly not the monster in the middle. Davis, see Dawkins, a couple years too late. Larson, great story, a backup.

Do you realize who we have penciled in at DT and DE? I like Peterson and Thomas, but little else.

Killericon
06-11-2009, 02:31 PM
Like who? Ayers projects as a 4/3 De, not OLB and not a 3/4 DE.

Man, it's too bad you weren't in the war room on draft day to tell Mike Nolan, a guy who's been running 3-4 defenses for years, about how Robert Ayers projects. I'll bet he just took a look at the NFL.com top board and thought "Hey, that Robert Ayers guy plays on defense. We need players that play on defense. Let's take him!" It's a shame that Nolan, McDaniels and Xanders doesn't have well-informed guys like you to do research on these sorts of things.

Hey, if you want to dissent and say the new regime sucks, go for it, just don't treat them like they're complete idiots, and don't state predictions like they're facts.

If you ask me, calling the Jason Brown signing stupid condemns this article. Does anyone really think the CBA won't get done?

Rulon Velvet Jones
06-11-2009, 02:35 PM
Man, it's too bad you weren't in the war room on draft day to tell Mike Nolan, a guy who's been running 3-4 defenses for years, about how Robert Ayers projects. I'll bet he just took a look at the NFL.com top board and thought "Hey, that Robert Ayers guy plays on defense. We need players that play on defense. Let's take him!" It's a shame that Nolan, McDaniels and Xanders doesn't have well-informed guys like you to do research on these sorts of things.

Hey, if you want to dissent and say the new regime sucks, go for it, just don't treat them like they're complete idiots, and don't state predictions like they're facts.

If you ask me, calling the Jason Brown pick stupid condemns this article. Does anyone really think the CBA won't get done?

You do know who you're arguing with, don't you?

Killericon
06-11-2009, 02:42 PM
You do know who you're arguing with, don't you?

I know, I know. Sometimes it's hard to contain.

broncofan7
06-11-2009, 02:47 PM
3. CB Andre Goodman, Broncos: This cornerback was a very average player in his first few years in the league, but he started 16 games last season in Miami and had his best year with five interceptions, the most in his seven-year career. He has 12 overall. In seven seasons.

Yet the Broncos stepped up and rewarded Goodman with a $10 million signing bonus. Believe me, he's no Champ Bailey. And he isn't that great in man-to-man coverage. Expect him to get burned by the Chargers.


7. S Brian Dawkins, Broncos: I love this player, but $9.5 million over two years seems a tad much for a 36-year-old safety entering his 14th season with all those welts on his body after years of big hits. The Broncos are paying for his leadership, on and off the field. Knowing "Dawk," he will give it his all, wanting to prove to the Eagles that they made a mistake allowing him to leave.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

6.) The buzz-worthy move: Denver signs S Brian Dawkins
The under-the-radar move: Denver signs CB Andre Goodman


In Dawkins, the Broncos get a 12-time Pro Bowl selection and arguably the most beloved player in Philadelphia Eagles history. In Goodman, they get a potential breakout star that, despite being 30, is on the verge of becoming one of the NFL's better cornerbacks.


After battling a laundry list of ankle, knee and shoulder issues in previous seasons, Goodman stayed healthy and started 16 games for the miracle Dolphins last season. He led Miami in interceptions and passes defended in '08. Denver's got Champ Bailey at one corner spot and spent a future first-round pick on 2009 second-round selection Alphonso Smith. But don't sleep on Goodman. He could be the brightest star of all three in '09.



NFL - Best under-the-radar moves of the offseason - FOX Sports on MSN (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9616124/Best-under-the-radar-moves-of-the-offseason)






;D

Great post! I love these two signings although I am VERY biased when it comes to Dawkins as he was my favorite player on my 2nd favorite team (I grew up around the Iggles in the Buddy Ryan era) and now he is my favorite player on my favorite team--we could not have had any better signing in my Fanboy eyes.......

watermock
06-11-2009, 02:50 PM
So what has Nolan accomplished besides being fired?

The FACT is Ayers was often used at DT, he has zero experience as OLB is the 3/4. Insult away, the cold hard facts are we are woefully undersized and deficient in talent.

So what's Ayers going to play? Undersized 3/4 or undeveloped OLB?

watermock
06-11-2009, 02:52 PM
we could not have had any better signing in my Fanboy eyes.......

For 36 and 9m, he a real steal.

broncofan7
06-11-2009, 02:52 PM
I'm surprised Lonnie Paxton missed the cut.

:rofl: Good grief--He must have naked pictures of our Mc-Coach........

Muddled
06-11-2009, 02:53 PM
;D

Hehe, well played

Hogan11
06-11-2009, 03:00 PM
The strategy is obviously to get some young talent at DB and have the veterans teach them up. Having Champ and Dawk (arguablly 2 of the best at their positions in the NFL) and another vet in Goodman mentoring these kids is going to drastically accellerate their learning curve.

Did you see Dawk's interview? He views his role on the team as being a teacher/mentor to the rookies, along with being a team leader and playmaker. That has to be one of the best moves the FO has made this offseason.

Dawkins is Lynch revisited...a lost a half-step vet playing out on a reputation that snared one last big payday. I would've loved him as a one year rental, but the contract the team gave him is still a headscratching jawdropper.

Mentor role or not, the contract he got was a foolish one.

broncofan7
06-11-2009, 03:05 PM
For 36 and 9m, he a real steal.

And worth every penny now that he is wearing orange & blue........

Br0nc0Buster
06-11-2009, 03:07 PM
So what has Nolan accomplished besides being fired?

The FACT is Ayers was often used at DT, he has zero experience as OLB is the 3/4. Insult away, the cold hard facts are we are woefully undersized and deficient in talent.

So what's Ayers going to play? Undersized 3/4 or undeveloped OLB?

I can tell you have never seen Ayers play before

SonOfLe-loLang
06-11-2009, 03:10 PM
Like who? Ayers projects as a 4/3 De, not OLB and not a 3/4 DE. Both Doom and Moss are totally worthless at OLB as well.

WW3? Talk about undesized, DJ? Certainly not the monster in the middle. Davis, see Dawkins, a couple years too late. Larson, great story, a backup.

Do you realize who we have penciled in at DT and DE? I like Peterson and Thomas, but little else.

Its a fact that we're bigger...even some of our guys on the team last year bulked up. It appears to me that this defense almost plays like a 5-2...its just bulkier dudes.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-11-2009, 03:13 PM
So what has Nolan accomplished besides being fired?

The FACT is Ayers was often used at DT, he has zero experience as OLB is the 3/4. Insult away, the cold hard facts are we are woefully undersized and deficient in talent.

So what's Ayers going to play? Undersized 3/4 or undeveloped OLB?

most OLB's in the 3-4 have zero experience playing it coming into the pros...most colleges just dont run it.

watermock
06-11-2009, 03:15 PM
He would of been a fine pick, in a 4/3. Maybe even droppng into coverage on the zone blitz.

But not in the 3/4.

In fact, I don't care that much for the Moreno pick either he's slow for our pass blocking line and has no wiggle, yet alone trading up for a redundent blocking TE.

Fine. Time tells all, doesn't it.

watermock
06-11-2009, 03:20 PM
most OLB's in the 3-4 have zero experience playing it coming into the pros...most colleges just dont run it.

Damn. Ayers is going to be 280. He's going to look as silly in coverage as Dawkins.

I'd love the pick, for a 4/3.

Killericon
06-11-2009, 04:53 PM
So what has Nolan accomplished besides being fired?

The FACT is Ayers was often used at DT, he has zero experience as OLB is the 3/4. Insult away, the cold hard facts are we are woefully undersized and deficient in talent.

So what's Ayers going to play? Undersized 3/4 or undeveloped OLB?

He's going to be pretty undeveloped either way...He was just drafted.

watermock
06-11-2009, 05:10 PM
He's going to be pretty undeveloped either way...He was just drafted.

Thanks for reminding me he came in like his sh!t didn't stink until his one year wonder and senior bowl.

Regardless, he fits into a 4/3 much better IMO. We'll see.

McDman
06-11-2009, 05:15 PM
I think people may miss Dre Bly by the end of the year. He was a good corner who got ragged on for some reason.

I listen to Sirius radio a lot and I haven't heard anything good about Goodman yet. Many Dolphins fans do not care that he left.

DBroncos4life
06-11-2009, 05:40 PM
So what has Nolan accomplished besides being fired?

The FACT is Ayers was often used at DT, he has zero experience as OLB is the 3/4. Insult away, the cold hard facts are we are woefully undersized and deficient in talent.

So what's Ayers going to play? Undersized 3/4 or undeveloped OLB?

Mock Ayers is a perfect player for the 3/4. Not one mock site had him anything other then a 3/4 LB. Stop ****ing acting like you have a clue about Ayers.

eddie mac
06-11-2009, 05:55 PM
I think it was more about paying them too much

If that's the case why are Foxworth, Olshansky, Canty etc not on the list.

All 3 got similar or far more coin than Goodman and are all very average players.

What about Boley getting $5m a year from the Giants after getting benched in Atlanta???

In Foxworth's case he actually got nearly $3m more per season than Andre for doing what exactly throughout his career to date???

As per usual the writer in question hasn't got a ****ing clue either because Andre got an $8m Signing bonus, not $10m as stated.

It's become a real sad world when a know-nothing tosser like this gets internet airtime via reproduction.

eddie mac
06-11-2009, 05:56 PM
I think people may miss Dre Bly by the end of the year. He was a good corner who got ragged on for some reason.

I listen to Sirius radio a lot and I haven't heard anything good about Goodman yet. Many Dolphins fans do not care that he left.

Get over Dre. He couldn't cover a ****ing cold.

eddie mac
06-11-2009, 05:59 PM
I'm surprised Lonnie Paxton missed the cut.

Oh ffs, will you get over yourself. The guy got a slightly above average contract with less than a $1m signing bonus spread over 5 seasons.

You do realise there's still vet minimum salaries in the league, and they get increased every season.

cutthemdown
06-11-2009, 06:00 PM
If you read enough you will find articles that say pretty much everything. These guys get paid to write articles and write they do. By the time season starts ever scenario has been predicted and written about except what will actually happen in the season.

If these guys got fired based on being wrong, we would have a whole new crop of crap wrtiters to start each yr.

eddie mac
06-11-2009, 06:03 PM
Dawkins is Lynch revisited...a lost a half-step vet playing out on a reputation that snared one last big payday. I would've loved him as a one year rental, but the contract the team gave him is still a headscratching jawdropper.

Mentor role or not, the contract he got was a foolish one.

Couple of questions

1. Would you still rather have McCree or Manuel

2. Who else would you have targetted.

3. Would you have rather started a rookie and asked him to lead the secondary/defense.

NYBronco
06-11-2009, 06:03 PM
Ahhhhhh... we're doomed in voluntary/mandatory preseason training camps. Make it stop and get rid of McDaniels yesterday.

eddie mac
06-11-2009, 06:05 PM
Bottom line, both players are better than the crap that wore the uniforms last year. Who really gives a **** how much they're paid as long as they do the business on the field???

FireFly
06-12-2009, 01:55 AM
The strategy is to get average secondary players so they can run around for 10 seconds trying to cover WRs because the DL is getting no pressure.

Dawkins is old and he wasn't a great cover safety when he was young. He was once one of the best but he isn't in the top 10 right now.

If he's even top 30 he's better than what we had last year!

cutthemdown
06-12-2009, 02:06 AM
the people that write this garbage don't even follow football as much as we do. In a few months they will be writing about something else and we will still be focused on the NFL.

I had a friend that used to write for a 4 wheeling magazine and he never even went 4 wheeling. He would just do some quick research, interview a couple people, put together an article and send it out.

It's a job for them while for us it's a passion. Goodman/Alphonso Smith will be as good as Bly. Dawkins and Hill way better then Mcree/Manual

I don't see how the secondary won't be improved. These writers just focusing on the money, age etc, and not what it does for the team on the field.

Dawkins/Hill/Goodman a short term answer which is why they drafted CB and Safety's in the draft. They will probably do so again next yr.

BroncoInSkinland
06-12-2009, 04:41 AM
I think it was more about paying them too much

100% correct. It is in the title, GM, not Head Coach. if they were indicating the players wouldn't perform it would be the coach who regrets it. This article is focusing on the money, and disregards a lot of factors such as the Broncos need for veteran leadership, and Seattles need for a big name to spark interest and keep the 12th man advantage. I agree with the writers to an extent, for pure physical talent we MIGHT have overpaid for Dawkins, Goodman, and even Andra. For leadership and the other intangible assets these guys bring to the field its kinda like mastercard...priceless.

Broncos_OTM
06-12-2009, 05:22 AM
Like who? Ayers projects as a 4/3 De, not OLB and not a 3/4 DE. Both Doom and Moss are totally worthless at OLB as well.

WW3? Talk about undesized, DJ? Certainly not the monster in the middle. Davis, see Dawkins, a couple years too late. Larson, great story, a backup.

Do you realize who we have penciled in at DT and DE? I like Peterson and Thomas, but little else.

Obviously you have seen little to no tape on Ayers. HE was ALL OVERthe field when he played at Tennessee.. Try again mock

Broncos_OTM
06-12-2009, 05:24 AM
He would of been a fine pick, in a 4/3. Maybe even droppng into coverage on the zone blitz.

But not in the 3/4.

In fact, I don't care that much for the Moreno pick either he's slow for our pass blocking line and has no wiggle, yet alone trading up for a redundent blocking TE.

Fine. Time tells all, doesn't it.

Dude ... Go watch some tape on him. please for the love of god you are emberasseing yourself

broncswin
06-12-2009, 05:39 AM
Bottom line, both players are better than the crap that wore the uniforms last year. Who really gives a **** how much they're paid as long as they do the business on the field???

AGREE!!

Anyone who gets hooked into agreeing with this f-ing writer is even dumber than them...see thread for the "hooked"

What do people think we should have done, stuck with the dumba$$ safties and corners that Shanny (love him but...) left behind lol. The Dawkins signing was as much about leadership as it was about skill. Anyone who thinks we are gonna miss Mr. Bly must be hittin it, or related to the guy!!:wiggle:

GO BRONCOS

BroncoInSkinland
06-12-2009, 05:45 AM
[/B]

AGREE!!

Anyone who gets hooked into agreeing with this f-ing writer is even dumber than them...see thread for the "hooked"

What do people think we should have done, stuck with the dumba$$ safties and corners that Shanny (love him but...) left behind lol. The Dawkins signing was as much about leadership as it was about skill. Anyone who thinks we are gonna miss Mr. Bly must be hittin it, or related to the guy!!:wiggle:

GO BRONCOS

I disagree here, I think Bly's problem was our lack of pressure up front. I think Goodman is an adequate replacement, as good or possibly a little better. At the same point in time, if the d-line problems have been/will be adressed, I think Bly would have been much more productive than what we saw last year.

TonyR
06-12-2009, 06:04 AM
I think people may miss Dre Bly by the end of the year.

I have nothing against Bly and would have been fine with keeping him, however the fact that he sat unemployed until May 22 and then got a 1 yr deal tells me he's not that highly thought of around the league any more.

elsid13
06-12-2009, 06:10 AM
I think that Goodman is average CB that had decent year and now is getting award for it. I don't know how he will handle the guy picked on as Champ (once he shows he healthy), will be avoid again. I have strange feeling there will be many folks on this forum calling for Goodman to be benched.

While I will reserve judgment on Dawkins, I think his best days are behind him and wouldn't be surprised that he is pulled on passing downs.

broncswin
06-12-2009, 06:20 AM
I disagree here, I think Bly's problem was our lack of pressure up front. I think Goodman is an adequate replacement, as good or possibly a little better. At the same point in time, if the d-line problems have been/will be adressed, I think Bly would have been much more productive than what we saw last year.

Are you forgetting what a horrible tackler this guy was, with our front seven last year, he had many chances. Sure our front bigs sucked it up, this guy was just getting flat out beat off the line on many occasions. He was not physical at all on jamming, or coming up to fill, or making a play on containment. He shyed away from contact way too often, but I do agree that the front seven didn't do him any favors.:thumbsup:

BroncoInSkinland
06-12-2009, 06:27 AM
Are you forgetting what a horrible tackler this guy was, with our front seven last year, he had many chances. Sure our front bigs sucked it up, this guy was just getting flat out beat off the line on many occasions. He was not physical at all on jamming, or coming up to fill, or making a play on containment. He shyed away from contact way too often, but I do agree that the front seven didn't do him any favors.:thumbsup:

I understand and agree, but do you think Smith will be a better tackler? CB's are there for coverage. If the front 7 did what they had to do, he wouldn't have been put in a position where had to contain as often. He did get burned a few times, and did lack in jamming recievers, but stopping the run is not what we want our CB's to be doing in a perfect world. The other side of the coin, interceptions. That's what we want from Bly, and Bailey for that matter. If the opposing QB didn't have enough time to knit a jersey before throwing the ball Bly would have had a few picks that would offset the lack of physicality.

Hogan11
06-12-2009, 07:02 AM
Couple of questions

1. Would you still rather have McCree or Manuel

2. Who else would you have targetted.

3. Would you have rather started a rookie and asked him to lead the secondary/defense.

Of course Dawkins is an upgrade at the position, but he still should be nothing more than a year or two (at best) rental. No matter how you slice it, that was still a very foolish 5 yr. contract to give a slowed 36 yr old.

kamakazi_kal
06-12-2009, 07:15 AM
Obviously you have seen little to no tape on Ayers. HE was ALL OVERthe field when he played at Tennessee.. Try again mock

That's college correct ...... so to assume he will be all over the field in the NFL is misguided at best. You have no idea how the guy will transition.

Try again yourself.

tsiguy96
06-12-2009, 07:17 AM
why do you guys care about how much these guys get paid, really? does it effect you if the broncos overpaid a guy or gave him too long a contract?

**** is silly at this point. pay him what he wants, i just want to see the best bronco product they can put on the field.

worm
06-12-2009, 07:50 AM
why do you guys care about how much these guys get paid, really? does it effect you if the broncos overpaid a guy or gave him too long a contract?

**** is silly at this point. pay him what he wants, i just want to see the best bronco product they can put on the field.


Because it limits other, potentially better, moves that the Franchise can do.

CBA aside, there is a finite amount of resources available. Caring about how those resources are spent is not silly.

eddie mac
06-12-2009, 07:52 AM
Of course Dawkins is an upgrade at the position, but he still should be nothing more than a year or two (at best) rental. No matter how you slice it, that was still a very foolish 5 yr. contract to give a slowed 36 yr old.

It's basically a 2yr $9m deal, an option kicks in prior to the 3rd season.

TonyR
06-12-2009, 08:05 AM
...... so to assume he will be all over the field in the NFL is misguided at best. You have no idea how the guy will transition.


And neither do you. So we should just all "assume" that he'll fail? That's the superior and preferable position? Some of you guys must really be the life of every party...

outdoor_miner
06-12-2009, 08:10 AM
That's college correct ...... so to assume he will be all over the field in the NFL is misguided at best. You have no idea how the guy will transition.

Try again yourself.

So - with this attitude, we should go ahead and believe all of our rookies are going to suck... Sweet!

Luckily - every other rookie in the NFL is going to suck, too. After all, they have only done it in college.

Garcia Bronco
06-12-2009, 08:31 AM
I bet GM regrets sign a bunch of contracts. It's why they are going out of business.

kamakazi_kal
06-12-2009, 08:44 AM
And neither do you. So we should just all "assume" that he'll fail? That's the superior and preferable position? Some of you guys must really be the life of every party...

Funny thing is I take the same approach as you and popps with my friends "defend every single denver move"

I live in socal so their all Raider fans ....... nobody talks crap about denver unless their a fan of denver. Kind of weird huh.....

✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡
06-12-2009, 12:18 PM
Andre Goodman?

Nice to know my Hebrew brethren owned his ancestors.

Broncos_OTM
06-13-2009, 08:56 AM
That's college correct ...... so to assume he will be all over the field in the NFL is misguided at best. You have no idea how the guy will transition.

Try again yourself.
You could say that just about any damn player in the NFL. You never know how a guy will translate when they get to the nfl. But in College he played 5 tech DE RDE LDE ROLB LOLB in college. i have even seen him blitz from the MLB spot.
So it nots if to say he is tottally unfamiliar with what will be asked of him.

Now wonder boy anything else you got to go on about.

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 09:11 AM
It's become a real sad world when a know-nothing tosser like this gets internet airtime via reproduction.

Wow ... you really are in Ireland ;D

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 09:13 AM
Goodman is just average ... that's why he's making what he is.

The market for CBs is intense ... had Goodman warranted more money, he would have got it.

Alphonso will be starting by Week 8.

Broncos_OTM
06-13-2009, 09:15 AM
Andre Goodman?

Nice to know my Hebrew brethren owned his ancestors.
I find it rather amuseing that you laugh at this because his ancestors probably owned your ancesters far longer.

Every post i have seen you pimping your "hebrew" lineage. I fail to corelate where your ancestory and Broncos football have in common.

Shouldnt you be out Hunting 90 year old nazi's? or conspireing with them here http://www.jdl.org/

Cito Pelon
06-13-2009, 09:40 AM
i think its fair. i agree the point is that the broncos overpaid these older guys. if they help win then its fine. if not, its a mistake.

The Broncs had to transition and transition quick. They didn't overpay. They got who they had to get to transition quick without totally rebuilding. They did a good job working FA.

Did they max out the cap with long term deals? No. They were all mid-FA guys. To call this a bad FA year is ridiculous.

BroncoBuff
06-13-2009, 09:42 AM
Andre Goodman?

Nice to know my Hebrew brethren owned his ancestors.

Goodman is a Jewish name?

That explains so much ...

ZONA
06-13-2009, 12:03 PM
Rodney Harrison was older then snot when NE signed him towards the end of his career and I recall him doing a pretty good job. Just because Dawk is older doesn't mean the man can't play. That was the worst part of the article. There is NOTHING to suggest he can't play at a high level anymore but yet the writer goes on to say it was a bad signing. F him !!!

Punisher
06-13-2009, 12:09 PM
LMAO i like how ✡✡ JOSHUA ✡✡ knows everything about Jewish people

Premier-Ace55
06-13-2009, 10:24 PM
For starters, yes.

If we can stop the run with our front 7 he won't be beating anybody deep maybe he'll catch some jump balls or something but he's not a burner. We just could not stop anything and had our secondary making all of the tackles against the run. In addition we had no safteys last year.

broncocalijohn
06-13-2009, 10:51 PM
1. WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Seahawks:

I don't agree at all with this one....

I am with you on this one. Palmer wasnt QB last year for Cinci. I think a healthy Hasselbach will do wonders with Housh. The division is still soft on defense and he plays those teams 6 times (Cards being the tougher of the 3 teams). He will be a go to guy and have at least 8 TDs and probably in double digits by the 13th game.