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Los Broncos
06-08-2009, 06:31 PM
I watched the passing camp video or on DB.com, seems like a good kid and is working on the things he's weak at.

He is predicted to be the best defensive player out of this draft, and I like little quick clip of him after the pick.

Check out the spin move he puts on the o-linemen.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profiles/robert-ayers?id=71193

I pray to god he becomes dominant.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2009, 06:41 PM
I watched the passing camp video or on DB.com, seems like a good kid and is working on the things he's weak at.

He is predicted to be the best defensive player out of this draft, and I like little quick clip of him after the pick.
You should mention that it's one guy (Mayock) who says this. He rose on the strength of post season workouts and the senior bowl.

Los Broncos
06-08-2009, 06:43 PM
You should mention that it's one guy (Mayock) who says this. He rose on the strength of post season workouts and the senior bowl.

I didn't put much stock into it, and he did say one year wonder which worried teams.

But I have a feeling about this kid from watching those highlight vids.

He can play inside or out, and is explosive.

I just want some heat on the other teams QB.

Popps
06-08-2009, 06:43 PM
You should mention that it's one guy (Mayock) who says this. He rose on the strength of post season workouts and the senior bowl.

Just happens to be probably the most respected draft analyst out there.

But, you stay pouty, boss.

Popps
06-08-2009, 06:44 PM
I didn't put much stock into it, and he did say one year wonder which worried teams.

But I have a feeling about this kid from watching those highlight vids.

He can play inside or out, and is explosive.

I just want some heat on the other teams QB.


There a few good, long vids on YouTube of the kid. Watch them, and you'll be even more pumped up. Played standing up some, and just looks like a natural football player.

Definitely good reason to be excited about this kid.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2009, 06:48 PM
Just happens to be probably the most respected draft analyst out there.

But, you stay pouty, boss.
Respected or not...he's the only guy who said this. Why does it bother you to hear something truthfully reported?

Popps
06-08-2009, 06:49 PM
Respected or not...he's the only guy who said this. Why does it bother you to hear something truthfully reported?

Why does it bother you that the most respected draft analyst thinks he'll end up the best DEFENDER in this draft?

Truth hurt?

Los Broncos
06-08-2009, 06:54 PM
There a few good, long vids on YouTube of the kid. Watch them, and you'll be even more pumped up. Played standing up some, and just looks like a natural football player.

Definitely good reason to be excited about this kid.

I have seen those I just hope he translates to the NFL well.

What impresses you most about him?

Popps
06-08-2009, 06:57 PM
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Here ya go, Clady.

My favorite play is at 3:35. He's standing up, fights through the junk nicely and then just lays out the runner.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2009, 06:59 PM
Why does it bother you that the most respected draft analyst thinks he'll end up the best DEFENDER in this draft?

Truth hurt?
Nothing reported truthfully bothers me, but spin and homer propaganda I find useless. One draft analyst thinks he's going to wind up the best...yet it appears most NFL teams actually drafting these guys didn't share that opinion...certainly none of the 8 teams who drafted defensive players above him, probably most of the 17 who picked before he was taken.

He may indeed turn out great...I hope he does. But what's wrong with being accurate? Are you that desperate for good press?

Popps
06-08-2009, 06:59 PM
I have seen those I just hope he translates to the NFL well.

What impresses you most about him?

Just watch his feet. He's extremely quick, even in small areas. He changes direction very well, too. Wraps up nicely and just looks very instinctual out there. He's not a huge guy, but looks big enough to take on linemen when need be, or run around them.

Nolan loves versatile guys, and he's got one.

I can't think of a defensive pick this exciting since Al Wilson. Maybe he'll pan out, maybe he won't... but it's definitely exciting.

Popps
06-08-2009, 07:01 PM
He may indeed turn out great...I hope he does. But what's wrong with being accurate? Are you that desperate for good press?

Again, what's not accurate about the best draft analyst out there projecting him as the best defender?

Why does that bother you so much. Why can't you just let it go?

Are you that desperate for bad press that you need to spin the truth in your direction?

Los Broncos
06-08-2009, 07:01 PM
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Here ya go, Clady.

My favorite play is at 3:35. He's standing up, fights through the junk nicely and then just lays out the runner.

He killed that guy, he sure seals the edge well doesn't he.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2009, 07:05 PM
Again, what's not accurate about the best draft analyst out there projecting him as the best defender?
You said that. I was responding to "he's predicted to be the best defensive player in this draft", which sounds like it's a general consensus, not one man's opinion.
Why does that bother you so much. Why can't you just let it go?

Are you that desperate for bad press that you need to spin the truth in your direction?
Are you deaf? I just told you I don't mind anything reported truthfully, and I'm surely not "desperate for bad press". Anyone looking for bad press on this team has no shortage of thing to choose from.

The only spin here is yours.

Popps
06-08-2009, 07:08 PM
He killed that guy, he sure seals the edge well doesn't he.

It's encouraging to see him able to fight through traffic like that if we're going to be asking him to move around quite a bit. Just guessing, but I'd say that's a main reason Nolan probably targeted him. So many of these guys come out of school like Javis Moss... and they just got by on speed, alone. That **** doesn't work in the pros.

Ayers clearly has an array of moves, and that's what has people stoked about him making the transition well.

Popps
06-08-2009, 07:10 PM
You said that. I was responding to "he's predicted to be the best defensive player in this draft", which sounds like it's a general consensus, not one man's opinion. .

Who said that? Did he say it was a general consensus? Apparently, you're putting words in his mouth.

Turns out he was talking about the best draft analyst out there, who does indeed think he's the best prospect.

So, maybe don't project get wadded panties over this stuff until you know what people are talking about? That might help you avoid pissy melt-downs for no reason.

Thanks.

Los Broncos
06-08-2009, 07:11 PM
It's encouraging to see him able to fight through traffic like that if we're going to be asking him to move around quite a bit. Just guessing, but I'd say that's a main reason Nolan probably targeted him. So many of these guys come out of school like Javis Moss... and they just got by on speed, alone. That **** doesn't work in the pros.

Ayers clearly has an array of moves, and that's what has people stoked about him making the transition well.

I like how he plays against the run, is always in position to a make play.

He'll be much better than Moss, Moss is weak and couldn't fight out of a wet paper bag.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2009, 07:14 PM
Who said that? Did he say it was a general consensus? Apparently, you're putting words in his mouth.
No dipstick...I already stated it "sounds like a general consensus". Do you read simple English? I was responding to the OP..."you should mention..."

Get it? Or do you need further instruction?

Popcorn Sutton
06-08-2009, 07:35 PM
Nothing reported truthfully bothers me, but spin and homer propaganda I find useless. One draft analyst thinks he's going to wind up the best...yet it appears most NFL teams actually drafting these guys didn't share that opinion...certainly none of the 8 teams who drafted defensive players above him, probably most of the 17 who picked before he was taken.

He may indeed turn out great...I hope he does. But what's wrong with being accurate? Are you that desperate for good press?

If you didn't have a history of consistent negativity I'd probably give you a pass on this one. However, you ARE consistently negative to the point of being annoying and this is just one more example. You say that 8 teams drafted defensive players before him and I'm sure all 8 teams were in the market for a DE or Outside Linebacker right? Two of the DE/Outside LBs drafted before Ayers are pure pass rushers in Everette Brown and Aaron Maybin and they both went to 4-3 teams. If how NFL teams draft is a true barometer then your argument may actually make sense but the truth is the draft is a crap shoot. It is important to hear someone like Mayock being so high on Ayers because Mayock has made several NFL teams look downright stupid the last few years.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2009, 07:48 PM
If you didn't have a history of consistent negativity I'd probably give you a pass on this one. However, you ARE consistently negative to the point of being annoying and this is just one more example. You say that 8 teams drafted defensive players before him and I'm sure all 8 teams were in the market for a DE or Outside Linebacker right? Two of the DE/Outside LBs drafted before Ayers are pure pass rushers in Everette Brown and Aaron Maybin and they both went to 4-3 teams. If how NFL teams draft is a true barometer then your argument may actually make sense but the truth is the draft is a crap shoot. It is important to hear someone like Mayock being so high on Ayers because Mayock has made several NFL teams look downright stupid the last few years.
Lots of NFL teams look stupid and it didn't take Mayock to make that obvious.

I"ll repeat what I said earlier. I don't have a problem stating what Mayock said...I very much hope he's right. I'm just saying let's aknowledge not everyone had this opinion.

Whether or not all 8 teams were in the market for a DE/OLB is not the point...when's the last time a consensus best defensive player in the draft was passed over 8 or 10 times? I'm not talking about how it turned out later...but how it was seen at the time, since that's the context we're talking about...anyway, 8 or 10 teams...that's a reasonable expectation of how many teams would have probably taken him if they thought Mayock's opinion was valid. I'm not saying it's NOT valid...I'm just saying let's report this stuff accurately.

One man's negativity is another's realism.

Popps
06-08-2009, 07:58 PM
If you didn't have a history of consistent negativity I'd probably give you a pass on this one. However, you ARE consistently negative to the point of being annoying and this is just one more example. .

Lock it up.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2009, 08:21 PM
Lock me up.
Fixed.

~Crash~
06-08-2009, 08:53 PM
Why does it bother you that the most respected draft analyst thinks he'll end up the best DEFENDER in this draft?

Truth hurt?

yep he has also said our coach was not all there but I am sure you will have a problem with this .:welcome:

Broncos_OTM
06-08-2009, 09:24 PM
If you didn't have a history of consistent negativity I'd probably give you a pass on this one. However, you ARE consistently negative to the point of being annoying and this is just one more example. You say that 8 teams drafted defensive players before him and I'm sure all 8 teams were in the market for a DE or Outside Linebacker right? Two of the DE/Outside LBs drafted before Ayers are pure pass rushers in Everette Brown and Aaron Maybin and they both went to 4-3 teams. If how NFL teams draft is a true barometer then your argument may actually make sense but the truth is the draft is a crap shoot. It is important to hear someone like Mayock being so high on Ayers because Mayock has made several NFL teams look downright stupid the last few years.

Actually you are thinhking of Orakpo. Who is going to play the SAM position to start in DC and play end in the nickel. Everette Brown didnt go until midway through the second round


You hear alot from the media how diverse some guys are but when you flip on the tape it just aint so. Ayers line up at LDE RDE OLB ILB RDE (3-4)

Also it has been mentioned but he holds the containtment very well. and seems to locate the QB rather quickly i wouldnt describe him as explosive i would just say a heady guy. that knows his assignments well.

I really hoped Jarvis Moss would have turned out i really really didnt want him in that draft but we cant turn back time. There are reports this year he bulked upt o 258 they said it was a career high. but he still doesnt look at it on Denverbroncos.com under blogs for monday

Broncos_OTM
06-08-2009, 09:26 PM
Until proven wrong Mayock gets alot of leeway as far as prospects go with me. He picked Cutler..

He told us Mcfadden was a fraud right mcshay lol.

Popps
06-08-2009, 09:32 PM
Actually you are thinhking of Orakpo. Who is going to play the SAM position to start in DC and play end in the nickel. Everette Brown didnt go until midway through the second round


You hear alot from the media how diverse some guys are but when you flip on the tape it just aint so. Ayers line up at LDE RDE OLB ILB RDE (3-4)

Also it has been mentioned but he holds the containtment very well. and seems to locate the QB rather quickly i wouldnt describe him as explosive i would just say a heady guy. that knows his assignments well.

I really hoped Jarvis Moss would have turned out i really really didnt want him in that draft but we cant turn back time. There are reports this year he bulked upt o 258 they said it was a career high. but he still doesnt look at it on Denverbroncos.com under blogs for monday

Good breakdown. Also hoping Moss doesn't turn out a complete bust. Maybe the new system will at least enable him to use his speed and stick around as a back-up/ST player.

E. Brown slipping into the mid 2nd was one of the bigger surprises to me, but... maybe he's this year's Moss.

Br0nc0Buster
06-08-2009, 10:25 PM
I liked Ayers a lot, and am glad we got him
He is a bit risky, but I think he is worth it over some of the other guys we could of taken like Orakpo or Jenkins

I am not sure if he is gonna ever be an elite pass rusher, but he seems to be good at a lot of things, which I think make him a guy that can be used in a lot of different roles. I think he can get pressure though, even if it doesnt show up on the stat sheet.

I see him as kind of like an Aydelius(?) Thomas kind of player

The fact that Mayock loves him is just icing on the cake

watermock
06-08-2009, 11:25 PM
I like the pick, for a 4-3.

He'd be good dropping into passinng lanes there, but I don't see him able to cover a TE. no way, especially after he puts on 10 pounds.

He's gonna be a light DE in the 3-4.

I don't mind the pick. I'm more concerned about Morenos speed at
#10.

Kaylore
06-08-2009, 11:31 PM
If you didn't have a history of consistent negativity I'd probably give you a pass on this one. However, you ARE consistently negative to the point of being annoying and this is just one more example. You say that 8 teams drafted defensive players before him and I'm sure all 8 teams were in the market for a DE or Outside Linebacker right? Two of the DE/Outside LBs drafted before Ayers are pure pass rushers in Everette Brown and Aaron Maybin and they both went to 4-3 teams. If how NFL teams draft is a true barometer then your argument may actually make sense but the truth is the draft is a crap shoot. It is important to hear someone like Mayock being so high on Ayers because Mayock has made several NFL teams look downright stupid the last few years.
Rep for sticking it to the troll.

watermock
06-08-2009, 11:35 PM
The fact remains he is better suited at DE in a 4-3. Didn't Tenn have him playing DT at times?

I'm not sure he has skills to play OLB. We'll see, but it's a risk @17. He's a tweener, used to be a negative, not now, apparently.

Hulamau
06-09-2009, 12:27 AM
Respected or not...he's the only guy who said this. Why does it bother you to hear something truthfully reported?

More than a few guys said Ayers was potentially one of the best D-lineman in the draft, and others still were very high on him as a guy who could likely play both in the 4-3 and 3-4. Another group of 'analyst' ( who did less homework) just parrotted the "one year wonder" schtick.

He did play excellent ball his senior year and had a stud in front of him his sophomore and junior season that limited his time on field.

A late bloomer perhaps, but bloom he did. He has a ton of upside as well with good coaching like Nolan, Nunnely and Martindale they are sure to get the best out of the kid.

Much rather have a new guy just coming into his own his lat season, with room to grow, than a kid who maxxed out his talent for three years in college, drafts high and stagnates at the next level as so often happens as well.

Time will tell soon enough.

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2009, 01:13 AM
Rep for sticking it to the troll.
I get it...you're so insecure in your viewpoint that an opposing view pushes you to characterize me as a troll...though you know full well I have hundreds of posts on here praising all things Broncos...pathetic actually.

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2009, 01:22 AM
More than a few guys said Ayers was potentially one of the best D-lineman in the draft, and others still were very high on him as a guy who could likely play both in the 4-3 and 3-4. Another group of 'analyst' ( who did less homework) just parrotted the "one year wonder" schtick.
And I agree...obviously he was considered one of the best available D-linemen or he wouldn't have been drafted 18th overall...and I agree on the versitility aspect as well. I'm only suggesting people repeat things accurately. Unfortunately some of these dolts can't handle that. As for the one year wonder thing...I wouldn't characterize it as that, but it's not true that only analysts who didn't do their homework brought his college production up as an issue. He didn't bloom till his last year, and I found numerous reports of questions on his prior time at Tennessee ranging from his attitude (didn't take to coaching) to his motor. Some were from his own coaches. He rose so quickly becaue of his post season performance in the Senior Bowl and his workouts. That could mean he's finally getting it...or it could mean he's playing for a paycheck...hopefully the former.
Much rather have a new guy just coming into his own his lat season, with room to grow, than a kid who maxxed out his talent for three years in college, drafts high and stagnates at the next level as so often happens as well.
I would agree...if that were how his college career could be described. But as I said...I don't get the feeling his issues had anything to do with merely blooming now...he seems suddenly motivated more. The guy is a risk pick...his upside is high, but he might also dissapoint. I don't have a problem with this pick if they liked him, which they obviously did. You go after the guys you want. My only real concern at this point is weather he can adjust to the OLB spot, because I don't think he's big enough for the DE in a 3-4 despite the claims otherwise. He's 30 pounds underweight for that spot. He's a very good naural athlete, so he very well do it...just want to see what happens when the TC gets here.

watermock
06-09-2009, 01:27 AM
I didn't see much if him in cover....

Seems to me like a 4-3 DE that's able to drop zone blitz.

DBroncos4life
06-09-2009, 01:46 AM
He was a very good pick. There is no reason to to be high on him or believe he was one of the best LB/DE's or 'tweener if you prefer in the draft.

Hulamau
06-09-2009, 02:05 AM
Nothing reported truthfully bothers me, but spin and homer propaganda I find useless. One draft analyst thinks he's going to wind up the best...yet it appears most NFL teams actually drafting these guys didn't share that opinion...certainly none of the 8 teams who drafted defensive players above him, probably most of the 17 who picked before he was taken.

He may indeed turn out great...I hope he does. But what's wrong with being accurate? Are you that desperate for good press?

What do you mean by 'accurate'. It may be that Mayock was the only one, or at least the First public figure, to pronounce Ayers his favorite defensive player but that was his educated opinion. Yet there were quite a few others who were very high on Ayers as well and thought Denver had a solid first round and quite a few analyst gave us a B to B+ overall draft.

These other eight teams who chose D before him had their own needs and evaluations. Not all of them are 3- 4 teams, and some may well have been hesitant with this "one year wonder" label. McD brought him in for a private work out did full due diligence on the guy and felt he was the best guy LEFT ON THE BOARD to fill our position of need.

That Mayock feels he 'may become' the very best D guy from this draft in three years is just a bonus, and a confirmation from a guy who is the most respected draft analyst in the business that just maybe McD isn't the absolute moron that a few of you guys here have painted him as.

Objectively, Ayers has extremely quick feet, has some killer moves on contact at the line and a solid motor. Whats wrong with the guy in your astute in-depth judgment?

Sure maybe he bombs like Raji or Tyson Jackson may bomb, but the kid looks solid on all fronts and just watching him during games last year and at the senior bowl reveals a lot to be excited about with continued good coaching.

However, I do seem to notice that your instant response to almost any positive take on these new guys is to point at any bit of 'evidence' you can find to take them down a bit, or cast some doubt, as if having to prove the obvious, that they are not infallible Demi-Gods and may or may not work out.

Being excited to see how these guys turn out isn't at all being a mindless 'homer'. Everyone here knows nothing is given, that goes without saying. Its the possibility of something more that sustains both the team and the fans. Yet that doesn't imply Pollyanna 'SB or bust' projections either.

Here's a web site that might help those of you still harbouring sour dispositions about this team. www.neuroassist.com ... wonderful program for the many people these days with master neurotransmitter insufficiency issues, ranging from long term biochemical depression to just being stuck in seeing life from the bottle of the barrel wearing sunglasses a few shades too dark. :flower:

Popcorn Sutton
06-09-2009, 09:17 AM
Actually you are thinhking of Orakpo. Who is going to play the SAM position to start in DC and play end in the nickel. Everette Brown didnt go until midway through the second round


You hear alot from the media how diverse some guys are but when you flip on the tape it just aint so. Ayers line up at LDE RDE OLB ILB RDE (3-4)

Also it has been mentioned but he holds the containtment very well. and seems to locate the QB rather quickly i wouldnt describe him as explosive i would just say a heady guy. that knows his assignments well.

I really hoped Jarvis Moss would have turned out i really really didnt want him in that draft but we cant turn back time. There are reports this year he bulked upt o 258 they said it was a career high. but he still doesnt look at it on Denverbroncos.com under blogs for monday

Yes, you are correct. Thanks. I meant to say Orakpo... My point still stands that there were not 8-10 teams looking to fill a void of a 3-4 DE or Outside Linebacker.

Popcorn Sutton
06-09-2009, 09:20 AM
I like the pick, for a 4-3.

He'd be good dropping into passinng lanes there, but I don't see him able to cover a TE. no way, especially after he puts on 10 pounds.

He's gonna be a light DE in the 3-4.

I don't mind the pick. I'm more concerned about Morenos speed at
#10.

Ayers has been quoted saying he is going to play Outside Linebacker. However, he does hold up well at the point of attack and may be versatile enough to slide in the DE when necessary. I really like the pick. The video of him at the Senior Bowl was downright sick. I NEVER saw Jarvis Moss bowl people over like Ayers did all week at the Senior Bowl.

outdoor_miner
06-09-2009, 09:31 AM
This seems like a good place to post this... The Denver Post says today that Ayers was running as an OLB with the first team nickel defense:

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12549590

The last player off the practice field Monday was rookie linebacker/defensive end Robert Ayers. The first-round draft pick was not putting in extra time on his pass-rushing technique, or pass-coverage footwork. He was catching footballs from a Jugs machine because he has dropped five possible interceptions during the minicamp. Ayers was working with the first-team nickel defense at outside linebacker Monday.

Interesting - early evidence suggests he'll be starting his career at OLB, not DE. There was another report last week saying he replaced Doom at OLB in the starting lineup when Doom was out for personal reasons. Obviously, it's still early and things can change, but we're getting more and more evidence that he'll be an OLB.

SoDak Bronco
06-09-2009, 09:52 AM
actually mock he was projected as a OLB in the 3-4 more so then a 4-3 DE because of his ability to move and drop into zone coverage. He even participated in LB drills at the combine.

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2009, 10:08 AM
What do you mean by 'accurate'. It may be that Mayock was the only one, or at least the First public figure, to pronounce Ayers his favorite defensive player but that was his educated opinion. Yet there were quite a few others who were very high on Ayers as well and thought Denver had a solid first round and quite a few analyst gave us a B to B+ overall draft.
Have you actually read what I wrote on this thread? I just got done saying that I essentially agree with this. I already said he was one of the top defensive guys in the draft, My ONLY point here...one I ONLY made to the OP...was that if you say, "He was considered the top defensive player in the draft", then you give the impression that this was a GENERAL CONSENSUS, not a singular opinion, offered by one, albeit very respected, draft analyst. That point was made ONLY to the OP and I simply suggested that was a bit more accurate. Interestingly enough...he actually agreed with me, which is why I find it so odd the rest of you are freaking out over something this idiotic.
That Mayock feels he 'may become' the very best D guy from this draft in three years is just a bonus, and a confirmation from a guy who is the most respected draft analyst in the business that just maybe McD isn't the absolute moron that a few of you guys here have painted him as.
First of all, McDaniels has deserved every bit of the controversy and questions that have come about since he took over and so has Pat Bowlen, who handled this entire thing like a rookie owner and has alienated a large number of fans because of how he did this. That said...you might wish to check my posts over the last 2-3 weeks because you will find that I have essentially stayed off their cases and out of this endless and pointless argument since that time. I'm not even calling McD by the various colorful names I once was. During this same time period, I've also posted, and even written, articles about the team that are positive. On this same page you can click the "Buton looking to Dawkins and Harris" where I made a point of praising the draft pick as a guy who was flying under the radar here but might turn out starting for us.
Objectively, Ayers has extremely quick feet, has some killer moves on contact at the line and a solid motor. Whats wrong with the guy in your astute in-depth judgment?
As I just explained...now for the 2nd or 3rd time...I'm not saying ANYTHING IS WRONG WITH HIM. There ARE scouting reports that question his work habbits and his motivation and attitude prior to this year. I've already said I think the risk was worth the pick and I've already said the guy has talent. What more do you want? Do you want me to pretend this stuff doesn't exist?
However, I do seem to notice that your instant response to almost any positive take on these new guys is to point at any bit of 'evidence' you can find to take them down a bit, or cast some doubt, as if having to prove the obvious, that they are not infallible Demi-Gods and may or may not work out.
Dude...first of all, there's no reason to bracket my "evidence"...I check things and recheck everything I post on this board, probably more than 90% of the people who post in here, most of whom basically regurgitate things from memory. Second...I researched and wrote 2 entire articles in here that were better and more indepth than almost anything written by the offical press and both were very positive about two drafted players; Seth Olsen and Alphonso Smith. Both took considerable time to unearth the facts I found, and both actually changed my outlook on their prospects for success, not because I swallowed the official line without thinking but because I looked for thing myself. I'm getting tired of being told what kind of opinion I can or cannot have and having my fan loyalty questioned on that basis. This has gone one since I got on this board 4 years ago...guess what? I've been right much more often than wrong, and in fact this team's record reflects that. I report things as I see them, not based on some sort of agenda and not based on what I hope will happen or want to happen. If that's uncomfortable...dont' read it...because it's not going to change.
Being excited to see how these guys turn out isn't at all being a mindless 'homer'.
In many cases it is. Some of this is so blatantly biased it's worthless information. Probably half the stuff written in here would be laughed to scorn if it came from fans of other teams about their own situations. Some of it is utterly ludicrous. I've dropped off from commenting on every little remark because it goes nowhere...but it happens continuously.
Here's a web site that might help those of you still harbouring sour dispositions about this team. www.neuroassist.com ... wonderful program for the many people these days with master neurotransmitter insufficiency issues, ranging from long term biochemical depression to just being stuck in seeing life from the bottle of the barrel wearing sunglasses a few shades too dark. :flower:
Now you're just being snotty. As I said...I'm going to always call things like I see them, but nobody's twisting your arm to read it.

Los Broncos
06-09-2009, 10:25 AM
Man, I swear I didn't want this thread to turn into a bitching match.

Stop the hate! :)

Popps
06-09-2009, 10:36 AM
Man, I swear I didn't want this thread to turn into a b****ing match.

Stop the hate! :)

You'd need to ban a few of the OLC (Old Lady Crew) to bring about lasting peace. Until then, simple football discussion threads will turn into war-grounds for "look at me" types like this.

That said, still a good thread... and there is still a lot of reason to be excited about Ayers, imo. Again, I think he's the most intriguing defensive pick we've had since Wilson.

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2009, 10:49 AM
You'd need to ban a few of the OLC (Old Lady Crew) to bring about lasting peace. Until then, simple football discussion threads will turn into war-grounds for "look at me" types like this.
Right Popps...because your constant sniveling about all the things you hate about Cutler qualifies as "simple football discussion", but those who disagree are "old ladies".

Hulamau
06-09-2009, 12:03 PM
Relax footsteps, The little blue smiley face at the end means its 'mostly' having a little fun :-). And if you'll notice, I wrote that last paragraph more generically to include the hard core negative crowd and wasn't singling you out solely or specifically.

A few points:

1. I don't feel that you are a 'bad fan' or whatever, nor am I trying to censor what you wish to write and never have! I do value some of your takes and read most all of them that I come across in threads that interest me, though I hardly read all the threads here to begin with having not so much time to devote to it each day and half a world away in time zone from the rest of you.

2. Yes, I have noticed a general softening and what I consider a more balanced tone in some of your recent posts. I also praised your reports on Fonze and Olsen.

Yet, your first reply at the top of this thread was again a challenging retort to a basically positive take on Ayers, and simply reminded me of the many almost reflexive counterpoints to almost any ray of optimism shown in the first couple months after the Cutler **** fest started.

And your implication that guys (Popps I believe in this case, don't recall exactly?) that have a positive take on a new guy are obviously sucking the happy gas and are ridiculous homers, I felt, was as over the top as would be anyone denying your right to express yourself however you wish here and calling you a 'Raider' or some such obscenity! :)

3. Nevertheless, after I saw your reply here I did go and read some of the more recent treads you noted with the more positive angle and found those enjoyable as well.

Sooo, fair enough and duly noted ... in my book it seems that even if you haven't quite made it half way across the 'glass is half empty' Bronco Bridge, at least your not mired in the heart of darkness. :peace:

And while I don't expect, nor recommend, that you cross all the way over into the land of wine and roses where the Broncos are 16-0 and Super Bowl bound before camp starts (nor do I know anyone who has!), it is good to be able to shed at least some of the expectations of a guaranteed gloomy assessment and reaction to most anything McD related.

So welcome to the medium grey skies of 'Dove Valley Life' where we're always an INT or a busted play away from glory or doom!

And in any event, If I didn't think your were a decent poster Footsteps and a real fan of the team, I wouldn't bother reading what you write much less reply ... but I do.

Unless, of course, you start writing 'boob-ian' inanities or 'lex-ian' gems like that 'sublime' Dungy insight that, for the most part, Id rather ignore! :sunshine:

Cheers! and carry on ...

Los Broncos
06-09-2009, 12:14 PM
You'd need to ban a few of the OLC (Old Lady Crew) to bring about lasting peace. Until then, simple football discussion threads will turn into war-grounds for "look at me" types like this.

That said, still a good thread... and there is still a lot of reason to be excited about Ayers, imo. Again, I think he's the most intriguing defensive pick we've had since Wilson.

In the end its just a board and not everyone gets along, but anyways I really hope Ayers works for the best, we really need some kind of pass rush.

worm
06-09-2009, 12:30 PM
The last player off the practice field Monday was rookie linebacker/defensive end Robert Ayers. The first-round draft pick was not putting in extra time on his pass-rushing technique, or pass-coverage footwork. He was catching footballs from a Jugs machine because he has dropped five possible interceptions during the minicamp. Ayers was working with the first-team nickel defense at outside linebacker Monday.

The scary part isn't that Ayers dropped five possible INTs....its that he had the opportunity in the first place.

Glad to see the accuracy of the QBs is there.....now they just need to dial in the right side of the ball for their targets.

Popps
06-09-2009, 12:43 PM
In the end its just a board and not everyone gets along, but anyways I really hope Ayers works for the best, we really need some kind of pass rush.

I think the thing about guys like Ayers and Smith is... we just need them to be solid, smart contributors.

Think about Ray Crockett. No one would consider him a Ring of Famer, but he was integral to our success. He was a dependable every-down player who did his job.

Ayers doesn't have to be the next Lawrence Taylor, he's just got to be a solid performer. We just haven't had any nucleus to our defense in so long. We've been filling in gaps with scrubs and trying to hit home-runs here and there. You can't build a team like that.

All that said, I think he's got the physical potential to be a great every-down player, and I think moving Elvis to OLB will automatically make him a better player. I'd feel very comfortable with those two on the outside. Given, it'll take time for this all to come together, but on paper... we've made nice upgrades to this defense.

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2009, 01:37 PM
Relax footsteps, The little blue smiley face at the end means its 'mostly' having a little fun :-). And if you'll notice, I wrote that last paragraph more generically to include the hard core negative crowd and wasn't singling you out solely or specifically.

A few points:

1. I don't feel that you are a 'bad fan' or whatever, nor am I trying to censor what you wish to write and never have! I do value some of your takes and read most all of them that I come across in threads that interest me, though I hardly read all the threads here to begin with having not so much time to devote to it each day and half a world away in time zone from the rest of you.

2. Yes, I have noticed a general softening and what I consider a more balanced tone in some of your recent posts. I also praised your reports on Fonze and Olsen.

Yet, your first reply at the top of this thread was again a challenging retort to a basically positive take on Ayers, and simply reminded me of the many almost reflexive counterpoints to almost any ray of optimism shown in the first couple months after the Cutler **** fest started.

And your implication that guys (Popps I believe in this case, don't recall exactly?) that have a positive take on a new guy are obviously sucking the happy gas and are ridiculous homers, I felt, was as over the top as would be anyone denying your right to express yourself however you wish here and calling you a 'Raider' or some such obscenity! :)
OK...first, thanks for the clarification. I appreciate when someone has some balance.

Let me state what I mean when I'm referring to Popps or others that you're including in this category of "guys...that have a positive take on a new guy...", because I don't put him in that category at all. I have a different category for them. This is what sets me off; I absolutely don't care at all if people want to take a positve view on things, and there are lots of posters in here that do so, who I NEVER confront...because that's NOT what bugs me.

What irritates me is this CONSTANT...and it IS constant...drumbeat of idiots who can't let it go....they MUST push every single opportunity by taking any and every subject and turning it into another chance to hate on Cutler or the old regime...and I was a critic of that regime BTW. Do you know how freaking irritating this is? It's not even that it's Cutler...this happens any time a player leaves here. In this case it's just so much worse, and there's no end to it even after months of this crap. Every thread is a chance to try to force something that doesn't even match the topic. If somebody posts that a guy is a good team player, within 3 posts some idiot will show up to rant and rave about the whiny little selfish drunken punk who was to immature to call the boss and he wasn't a team player, blah blah blah. If someone posts something about the offense, the next response is how now that that overrated piece of crap Cutler is gone and Orton/Unitas is in town we're finally going to score points.

Much of what pisses me off the most is that these takes are usually pure garbage. They're clearly without regard to even the most basic facts...like the fact that our defense was probably the worst in the league...yet Cutler's won-lost record...which included 5 games as a rookie, a sophmore season where he lost 30 pounds with diabetees and one with a defense that was so horrible we actually fired the DC halfway into the season...was the result of his play, and had little to do with the defense. No thought, no intelligence and no insight goes into these stupid posts. So idiotic is this, that even when I posted that Peyton Manning also had a losing record with bad defenses...there were morons in here who dismissed this.

So as I'm saying...positive takes and people who are optimistic...great! I spent 30 years waiting for this team to win a title...so I like hearing positive stuff, but there are people in here who started following this team after they won a title...and they think they know something about what it means to be patient and should lecture me and label me a troll?

Please....that's laughable!

Understand this about me: I NEVER produce an opinion out of the desire to shade something to look worse than it is. I try to take an objective viewpoint, one I would take if I was not a fan but a reporter only, but if you consider the fact that the team I follow has a losing record of late...that might reflect why my viewpoint is seen as less than positive. When you read what I write, that's what you're reading...an effort to look clearly and as accurately as possible at any situation but an opinion that's being offered on a team that's been failing of late...because fudging on the truth never helps.

Case in point: the topic we're discussing...I stated several times that I like the pick, I think he's got potential, and I think it's a pick with some risk but it looks like a good gamble...so if I balance out a random and missleading statement that says, "he's considered the top defensive player in the draft" by clarifying that...and I also freely admit that the analyst who made that observation is well respected...how is that a negative? That's what I call "balanced" and objective. You described it as "a challenging retort to a basically positive take on Ayers". Perhaps if I ONLY had that to say about Ayers, that might be true, but when I come back and balance what I stated to begin with, it should be obvious I'm not hating on this guy, just trying to strive for some actual insight.

Popcorn Sutton
06-09-2009, 01:54 PM
Case in point: the topic we're discussing...I stated several times that I like the pick, I think he's got potential, and I think it's a pick with some risk but it looks like a good gamble...so if I balance out a random and missleading statement that says, "he's considered the top defensive player in the draft" by clarifying that...and I also freely admit that the analyst who made that observation is well respected...how is that a negative? That's what I call "balanced" and objective. You described it as "a challenging retort to a basically positive take on Ayers". Perhaps if I ONLY had that to say about Ayers, that might be true, but when I come back and balance what I stated to begin with, it should be obvious I'm not hating on this guy, just trying to strive for some actual insight.

I think it's your history on this board that makes people like myself say "There goes Footsteps again..." I find it interesting that you are so focused on people who consistently find the positive sides of things because you are the exact opposite.

Tombstone RJ
06-09-2009, 02:02 PM
Any one here besides me think Ayers is a better Merriman? Look at their measurables and they are very similar. Merriman plays OLB in a 3-4 and Ayers projects as a OLB in a 3-4.

Ayers is more Merriman than Merriman...

Kaylore
06-09-2009, 02:25 PM
I think it's your history on this board that makes people like myself say "There goes Footsteps again..." I find it interesting that you are so focused on people who consistently find the positive sides of things because you are the exact opposite.

The irony is most of the people aren't trying to be "unrealistically positive," they just aren't ready to pronounce someone a bust before a game is played. The real stupid is what footsteps and the others have done, whereby they have already pronounced doom on the season, the coaches and every player brought in here before a single snap was played. How can anyone claim to know the outcome and already be upset about it? They harp on the negative under the guise of "realism" when it's the complete opposite. No one knows how things will work out, but likely some moves will hit and some will miss. Every year there are some surprises and some disappointments about the season and this one won't be any different. Last year it was Boss Bailey, the defense and Champ being hurt all year but Royal, Hillis and Clady were the surprise good things. There's always a little of both.

27atwater
06-09-2009, 03:20 PM
You should mention that it's one guy (Mayock) who says this. He rose on the strength of post season workouts and the senior bowl.

see Brandon Marshall

Popps
06-09-2009, 03:21 PM
Any one here besides me think Ayers is a better Merriman? Look at their measurables and they are very similar. Merriman plays OLB in a 3-4 and Ayers projects as a OLB in a 3-4.

Ayers is more Merriman than Merriman...

You're forgetting one part of the Merriman equation...

http://broncotalk.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/merrimanbeforeafter.jpg

27atwater
06-09-2009, 03:25 PM
Any one here besides me think Ayers is a better Merriman? Look at their measurables and they are very similar. Merriman plays OLB in a 3-4 and Ayers projects as a OLB in a 3-4.

Ayers is more Merriman than Merriman...

I'm a Vols fan who had Terps season tix when Merriman was at Maryland. There are similarities, but I think Merriman is the more explosive player...then again he also has roid concerns. Both are uber talented who didn't put up crazy stats in college, BUT they both came on strong pre-draft and got drafted way earlier than the original projections warranted. Ayers plays on the offensive side of the LOS. Always has. His sack numbers are low, but there are countless highlights of him forcing bad passes w/ pressure. As for only starting 1 year, it's basically BS as he has always been in the rotation and UT plays a LOT of DLinemen so they can stay fresh. Ayers can be a stud. I'm not gonna say best defender in the draft, but he will be good for us.

Dexter
06-09-2009, 03:40 PM
You're forgetting one part of the Merriman equation...

http://broncotalk.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/merrimanbeforeafter.jpg

Hasn't this picture been debunked before? I heard it was Merrimans head photoshopped onto Jamal Williams' body.

27atwater
06-09-2009, 03:43 PM
and the tattoo is missing on the top pic

Br0nc0Buster
06-09-2009, 03:57 PM
I'm a Vols fan who had Terps season tix when Merriman was at Maryland. There are similarities, but I think Merriman is the more explosive player...then again he also has roid concerns. Both are uber talented who didn't put up crazy stats in college, BUT they both came on strong pre-draft and got drafted way earlier than the original projections warranted. Ayers plays on the offensive side of the LOS. Always has. His sack numbers are low, but there are countless highlights of him forcing bad passes w/ pressure. As for only starting 1 year, it's basically BS as he has always been in the rotation and UT plays a LOT of DLinemen so they can stay fresh. Ayers can be a stud. I'm not gonna say best defender in the draft, but he will be good for us.

This is what I expect also
I dont see many similarities between Merriman and Ayers, because I dont think Ayers is quite the elite pass rusher.

But Ayers holds the point and does a good job at getting penetration, which can sometimes be better than a sack

I have heard people compare him to Demarcus Ware, and I dont get that comparison either.

Popps
06-09-2009, 05:00 PM
Hasn't this picture been debunked before? I heard it was Merrimans head photoshopped onto Jamal Williams' body.

Could be. The tatt seems to be missing on one.

But, he tested positive for juice, of course. That part wasn't debunked.

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2009, 06:44 PM
see Brandon Marshall
How so? Here are Marshall's college stats his last two years at UCF:

2005: 74 catches, 1195 yards, 16.1 ypc, 11 TD's
2006: 82 cathces, 1279 yards, 15.6 ypc, 12 TD's

That seems like pretty big league production to me.

27atwater
06-09-2009, 06:50 PM
and his draft stock skyrocketed after his bowl game and workouts

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2009, 07:58 PM
and his draft stock skyrocketed after his bowl game and workouts
He was MVP in the Hawai Bowl but my point is...he was already productive in college. The main concern with Ayers has been whether he turned it on late only because the draft got closer or whether he's really a late bloomer who just needed to hit his stride. Since one is a 1st rounder and the other a 4th rounder, I'd say the burdern of proof obviously rests heavier on a guy drafted higher where the team assumes more risk.

Marshall of course, still has to prove something off the field, and a lot of people think he's got room to improve despite his gaudy stats.

Popcorn Sutton
06-09-2009, 08:03 PM
They harp on the negative under the guise of "realism" when it's the complete opposite.

QFT. ^5

footstepsfrom#27
06-09-2009, 08:07 PM
"Negative" of course, means an opinion other than yours. I can easily claim that "negative" means spending every other post bitching about a player who is no longer here.

I say tomato...you say tomato.

Hulamau
06-10-2009, 12:34 AM
You're forgetting one part of the Merriman equation...

http://broncotalk.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/merrimanbeforeafter.jpg

Danabol plus 700mg of Testosterone Cypionate a week LOL