PDA

View Full Version : Current QB situation


TheReverend
06-08-2009, 04:55 AM
There seems to some crazy expectations for this current unit, and I think we should have a thread dedicated to "why"

Optimistically, maybe McDaniels can create something special. Maybe his scheme is SO good that we can completely mask deficiencies at the most important position in the game.

Realistically, we have the LEAST talented QB stable in several decades. Cutler, far superior. Plummer, much better. Brian Griese? Oh, he beat them BOTH out in two different cities. Elway... well, come on.

BroncoBuff
06-08-2009, 05:20 AM
We haven't had such bad QBs since Steve DeBerg and Mark Hermann in 1982.

TheReverend
06-08-2009, 05:25 AM
We haven't had such bad QBs since Steve DeBerg and Mark Hermann in 1982.

The more I think about the actual talent level we're approaching the season with, the more mind=blown I get.

One guy was benched in favor of Gradkowski, Griese, and even had his Offensive HC trade for Jake Plummer. Basically benched in favor of anyone else in the Tampa area...

The other guy was benched in favor of Rex Grossman, Brian Griese again, and even after a "break out" season last year, his OC has publicly stated they were going to draft a new QB and cut him anyways.

Jesus Christ.

Broncoman13
06-08-2009, 05:44 AM
There seems to some crazy expectations for this current unit, and I think we should have a thread dedicated to "why"

Optimistically, maybe McDaniels can create something special. Maybe his scheme is SO good that we can completely mask deficiencies at the most important position in the game.

Realistically, we have the LEAST talented QB stable in several decades. Cutler, far superior. Plummer, much better. Brian Griese? Oh, he beat them BOTH out in two different cities. Elway... well, come on.

Here is what I am hoping for... Orton can be an effective QB as long as you don't ask him to throw the ball deep with any type of consistency.

McD runs the hell at of screens. Bubble, Smoke, Zip, TE, WR, H-Back, RB, FB, "Yo Mamma" Screen... he's got them all in his playbook.

We also have some personnel that should quite good at running the screens. Considering our OLine is still one of the most athletic in the league, you have a pair of Tackles that can get out and lead on screens.

You also have the best blocking TE in the league in DG and another impressive, but untested blocker at the position in Quinn. Both have decent hands and the third (Scheff) has been used on screens in the past as well, so the TE screen is also available.

Royal and Marshall are both exceptional after the catch runners. Marshall may be top 3 in the league in that regard. Marshall is also an exceptional blocker.

Finally, you have a handful of backs that can really catch the ball well as well as block. Hillis, Moreno, Jordan, and Buckhalter are all very good in the receiving department. Hillis could prove to have the best hands on the team, he is so natural catching the ball.


I could easily argue that Orton's limitations were as much his supporting cast as they were his own. Playing from the Shotgun with more time to diagnose the field b/c of a superior OL and a skill position players as good or better than those in Chicago should lead to a lot of success.

I hate to put a jinx on him, but I would guess that Orton will throw for 3500 yards and 25 TDs. Good numbers from the QB position, but not on par with what a franchise type QB would do with this supporting cast. I think a QB like Cutler would go for 4500 and 35 TDs so I realize Orton's limitations.

The best news that I can see in all of this. If the current QBs tank and Brandstater (or whatever his name is) doesn't look like he has a future, next year's QB class could be the best in several years. When there is a possibility that a guy like Colt McCoy, Tim Tebow, Jevon Snead, and/or Sam Bradford is available in round two, you have to like the draft knowing you're in need of a QB.

BroncoBuff
06-08-2009, 06:15 AM
One guy was benched in favor of Gradkowski, Griese, and even had his Offensive HC trade for Jake Plummer. Basically benched in favor of anyone else in the Tampa area...
Jesus Christ.
Nope. Wrong on all counts. Chris Simms has actually never been benched, in the NFL anyway. Griese won the starting job in 2005, but when he went down in Week 6, Simms came in and started the rest of the way that season, played pretty well - showed flashes of real field general leadeship I thought.

The next year, Simms actually beat out Gradkowski, Rattay and McNown for the starting job, but he didn't play that well, and went down in Week 3 with the spleen.

I suppose in 2004 when Brad Johnson came back from injury and reclaimed his job from Simms - that was kinda like a benching, but not really, the job was Johnson's to begin with. And I suppose when Gruden PASSED OVER Simms for Jeff Garcia while they waited for Chris's mid-season return from the spleen in 2007, that was a tiny bit like a benching, but not really. Besides, Garcia played great, and it's pretty well accepted that Gruden was a dick to Simms anyway.

I am more concerned that Simms could not beat out Kerry Collins last year in Tennessee ???

Mediator12
06-08-2009, 06:57 AM
There seems to some crazy expectations for this current unit, and I think we should have a thread dedicated to "why"

Optimistically, maybe McDaniels can create something special. Maybe his scheme is SO good that we can completely mask deficiencies at the most important position in the game.

Realistically, we have the LEAST talented QB stable in several decades. Cutler, far superior. Plummer, much better. Brian Griese? Oh, he beat them BOTH out in two different cities. Elway... well, come on.

That might just be true, but its a little over the top in how much worse. Simms got into Gruden's dog house, he never was benched until he was hurt and could not overtake Garcia. That was not a solid decision as much as an emotional one.

Orton was never a good fit in CHI. However, he was a better QB than Rex who was Jake Plummeresque starting for CHI. Remember, the Bears actually went to a SB with Rex pulling his best Plummer impersonation in 2006. So, right after that he gets replaced by Orton because of injury and CHI starts Winning more games while he learns on the job and with Crap at WR. When Rex came back, CHI faltered even more and lost with Rex.

All In All, to expect big numbers from them is a real reach. To expect them to play well within the new system is not. Brady won SB's with NE being a middle numbers QB. The year he set all kinds of records they lost the SB. So, while the QB is easily the most important position on the team as it relates to wins, both these guys can win with this offense.

What continues to be the real issue to me, is can they stop anyone in the NFL with this Defense. No one really knows yet, but the games will certainly be ugly if the defense can not stop the run with their schedule this year. They are not built to play from behind on offense or defense, but to still be front runners. Hell, even Cutler struggled mightily in the games they got down big early last year (NE, OAK, @ KC, and @ CAR). So, while the QB is still a major question mark as they go into the season, the defense is the most glaring question to me.

cmhargrove
06-08-2009, 07:22 AM
Is there anyone here that thinks effective use of "check downs" to a good pass-catching RB wouldn't have won us a few games over the past couple years?

We just haven't had that as part of the game plan lately, and it pissed me off.

Instead, we have had a tremendously gifted gunslinger staring down receivers that were 20-40 yards deep in double coverage waiting for a two yard window (that he could actually hit). It was extremely exciting football, it just wasn't smart football.

We are looking for posession football now. Keep getting first downs. Trust the run game (and bolster it with more talent). I like this plan.

Let the whole Offense do their job, don't just count on the QB. That way, if the QB gets rattled, the offense doesn't fall apart (like the past couple years).

Jesterhole
06-08-2009, 07:45 AM
To go from the best long term QB situation in the NFL to the worst without anything to really show for it really sucks.

TonyR
06-08-2009, 07:47 AM
You don't win with a QB, you win with an offense. John Elway is the perfect example of this. He carried a team to the Super Bowl a few times but was never able to sniff a trophy until he had a more complete unit surrounding him. I think we'll be better off with a strong system and players who can play within it than we were relying on an inconsistent QB to win games for us.

TonyR
06-08-2009, 07:49 AM
To go from the best long term QB situation in the NFL...

You're making quite an assumption there. How was our "long term QB situation" necessarily any better than San Diego's, Atlanta's, Baltimore's, etc.? You can certainly make arguments on the topic but that doesn't make you right.

lex
06-08-2009, 08:01 AM
You don't win with a QB, you win with an offense. John Elway is the perfect example of this. He carried a team to the Super Bowl a few times but was never able to sniff a trophy until he had a more complete unit surrounding him. I think we'll be better off with a strong system and players who can play within it than we were relying on an inconsistent QB to win games for us.


True. Who here was really comfortable with our RBs the past couple of years? Or, who here was comfortable with how casully the RB position was treated the past couple of years? The whole approach to putting some scrub in and watch him get 1200 yards flaunted Shanahans genius more than it helped the team. We never maximized our strength with this approach (ie our running game). We won two SBs due largely to an all time great running game. The past couple of years were frustrating in this regard. I liked some of the guys we had like Hillis, but it was definitely upgradeable.

I dont like McDaniels offense but hopefully we run more and it would seem that we will be doing so.

TonyR
06-08-2009, 08:14 AM
We won two SBs due largely to an all time great running game.

Yep. And to add to this even more, Elway was still an effective QB but was well past his prime when we won those Super Bowls.

Interesting how it works when you think about it. Rich Gannon was a journeyman QB but rember how good he looked in 2002 playing in a great system that fit his talents? Kurt Warner was considered washed up 5 years ago while failing with the NYG but he looked okay last season with strong talent and a good system, didn't he?

Neither Orton nor Simms are likely to be going to the Pro Bowl any time soon. But both should look better than they ever have in their pro careers because they are surrounded by good talent and will be playing in a QB friendly system.

cmhargrove
06-08-2009, 08:15 AM
True. Who here was really comfortable with our RBs the past couple of years? Or, who here was comfortable with how casully the RB position was treated the past couple of years? The whole approach to putting some scrub in and watch him get 1200 yards flaunted Shanahans genius more than it helped the team. We never maximized our strength with this approach (ie our running game). We won two SBs due largely to an all time great running game. The past couple of years were frustrating in this regard. I liked some of the guys we had like Hillis, but it was definitely upgradeable.

I dont like McDaniels offense but hopefully we run more and it would seem that we will be doing so.

What's wrong with his offense?

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2009, 09:09 AM
The more I think about the actual talent level we're approaching the season with, the more mind=blown I get.

One guy was benched in favor of Gradkowski, Griese, and even had his Offensive HC trade for Jake Plummer. Basically benched in favor of anyone else in the Tampa area...

The other guy was benched in favor of Rex Grossman, Brian Griese again, and even after a "break out" season last year, his OC has publicly stated they were going to draft a new QB and cut him anyways.

Jesus Christ.
He had nothing to do with it.

Griese, Grossman, Gradkowski and Plummer...sounds like an accounting firm.

Bigdawg26
06-08-2009, 09:22 AM
Our Current Qb Situation Sucks!!!!!

SoDak Bronco
06-08-2009, 09:34 AM
Time will tell how bad our QB situation really is. At the end of the day, if we get the Wins, we have to be happy. Orton may not be the pretty, flashy type, but if he converts 3rd downs, keeps turn-over’s down, and moves the ball, that is all that matters. I think Orton has shown the ability in college to run the spread with success; we are going to be pleasantly surprised at how well he does.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comhttp://www.orangemane.com/BB/<o:p></o:p>
We have one of the best o-lines, best WR tandem, and underrated TE's. If we can get solid play from Moreno,Hillis and CO. I really think Orton just acts as a facilitator and we are a more efficient and higher scoring offense then last year. <o:p></o:p>

missingnumber7
06-08-2009, 09:46 AM
Can one hope that McDaniels just has a master plan to win with a crappy QB?

SoDak Bronco
06-08-2009, 09:50 AM
Can one hope that McDaniels just has a master plan to win with a crappy QB?

We shall see....I don't think Orton is crappy..just more like scrappy..

uplink
06-08-2009, 10:01 AM
actually had a dream last week Plummer came back and joined the broncos

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-08-2009, 10:05 AM
Is Cutler far superior to Matt Cassel? I say yes. Yet Cassel managed to win 11 games last year. In a tougher division. In McDaniels' system.

Hmmmm.

bronco militia
06-08-2009, 10:12 AM
these guys are just as good as Plummer and the G-boy......and that's not saying much.

like Shanny, Mc****face is focussing on the running game

The Joker
06-08-2009, 10:13 AM
As has been said, the QB situation isn't our problem.

If we can field a middle of the road defense then our QB's will be fine. They're not superstars, but whoever wins the battle will be a competent QB who'll put up pretty decent numbers with the offense around them.

bronco militia
06-08-2009, 10:15 AM
As has been said, the QB situation isn't our problem.

.


it will be when teams are able to stop the running game.

The Joker
06-08-2009, 10:25 AM
it will be when teams are able to stop the running game.

You can't cover the likes of Marshall and Royal one on one. Teams will have to respect that and leave both safeties back more often than not. The running game should be fine.

I know some of the hysterics on here seem to think we've got 2 blind guys with no arms battling it out to be the starting QB, but it's just not the case.

The offense will be in the top half of the NFL, you can pretty much take that to the bank.

The defense is the concern, no doubt about it.

bronco militia
06-08-2009, 11:13 AM
You can't cover the likes of Marshall and Royal one on one. Teams will have to respect that and leave both safeties back more often than not. The running game should be fine.

I know some of the hysterics on here seem to think we've got 2 blind guys with no arms battling it out to be the starting QB, but it's just not the case.

The offense will be in the top half of the NFL, you can pretty much take that to the bank.

The defense is the concern, no doubt about it.

I don't agree with any of that....1999-2006 the broncos got by with guys like orton and simms when thy had Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, eddy Mac and a very solid running game....sure some of the parts were missing from one year to the next.




there's no doubt in my mind that QB will be a priority next offseason

Kaylore
06-08-2009, 11:23 AM
Griese beat Orton when he was binge drinking and didn't care. He's clearly turned his life around and beat the guy that beat Griese (Grossman) last year. He had a good year with no offensive line help and crap receivers until his ankle went south. I'm not expecting a terrible amount of Orton besides being a game manager, but I certainly don't think he's going to suck like everyone seems to believe.

I also find it hilarious that everyone thinks our line, receivers, and offense in general were all fabrications of playing with Cutler. "Our offensive line looked good because of Cutler. Marshall and Royal aren't anything without Cutler." The Cutler lovers often accuse the "other" side of ripping on Cutler when they go out of their way to tear down every other aspect of team.

Behind our line with our receivers and our coordinator, any QB is going to have at least a decent year. And the following are myths about Kyle Orton: He has a noodle arm, he can't move, he's stupid and he's one of the worst QB's in the league.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2009, 11:26 AM
I know some of the hysterics on here seem to think we've got 2 blind guys with no arms battling it out to be the starting QB, but it's just not the case.
Exactly. It's only one guy's whose blind and the other whose armless. :welcome:

lex
06-08-2009, 11:51 AM
Griese beat Orton when he was binge drinking and didn't care. He's clearly turned his life around and beat the guy that beat Griese (Grossman) last year. He had a good year with no offensive line help and crap receivers until his ankle went south. I'm not expecting a terrible amount of Orton besides being a game manager, but I certainly don't think he's going to suck like everyone seems to believe.

If youre going to try to find an angle to spin this positively for Orton, try the fact that Orton was young. He played a lot as a rookie in 2005 and purely tried to not lose games. He wasnt really a threat. This perception has carried forward. He was clearly a better QB last year than he was as a rookie, which is where the perception that many have of him comes from. The times that Griese played were when Grossman was still seen as the QB of the future.

I also find it hilarious that everyone thinks our line, receivers, and offense in general were all fabrications of playing with Cutler. "Our offensive line looked good because of Cutler. Marshall and Royal aren't anything without Cutler." The Cutler lovers often accuse the "other" side of ripping on Cutler when they go out of their way to tear down every other aspect of team.

Whats also hilarious is claiming Wiegmann is better than Kreutz.


Behind our line with our receivers and our coordinator, any QB is going to have at least a decent year. And the following are myths about Kyle Orton: He has a noodle arm, he can't move, he's stupid and he's one of the worst QB's in the league.

There are myths about Orton but there is also a glaring reality that should prevent advocating him absolutely and completely, which is that he has a very small sample size of showing he could actually carry a team or win games as a QB. As it stands now, no one knows to what degree that will be necessary and also no one knows to what degree our QB will be able to keep the defense from loading up against the running game.

lex
06-08-2009, 11:54 AM
Is Cutler far superior to Matt Cassel? I say yes. Yet Cassel managed to win 11 games last year. In a tougher division. In McDaniels' system.

Hmmmm.

Hmmm...

One team had Bill Belichick as a defensive coordinator and the other had Bob Slowik.

Hmmm...

TheReverend
06-08-2009, 11:58 AM
Griese beat Orton when he was binge drinking and didn't care. He's clearly turned his life around and beat the guy that beat Griese (Grossman) last year. He had a good year with no offensive line help and crap receivers until his ankle went south. I'm not expecting a terrible amount of Orton besides being a game manager, but I certainly don't think he's going to suck like everyone seems to believe.

I also find it hilarious that everyone thinks our line, receivers, and offense in general were all fabrications of playing with Cutler. "Our offensive line looked good because of Cutler. Marshall and Royal aren't anything without Cutler." The Cutler lovers often accuse the "other" side of ripping on Cutler when they go out of their way to tear down every other aspect of team.

Behind our line with our receivers and our coordinator, any QB is going to have at least a decent year. And the following are myths about Kyle Orton: He has a noodle arm, he can't move, he's stupid and he's one of the worst QB's in the league.

You may be referring to me, in that case it's an exaggerated statement. Regardless, a good chunk of the OL and WRs production did stem from Jay's talents.

That should be viewed as a fact by everyone.

The things to discuss, imo:

How much do we lose with Orton or Simms?

How much individual progress do the players achieve with another season of game experience and conditioning?

Will the new scheme be a step forward from last season's, making more offensive strides, or will it be another step back?

Rashomon
06-08-2009, 11:59 AM
I also find it hilarious that everyone thinks our line, receivers, and offense in general were all fabrications of playing with Cutler. "Our offensive line looked good because of Cutler. Marshall and Royal aren't anything without Cutler." The Cutler lovers often accuse the "other" side of ripping on Cutler when they go out of their way to tear down every other aspect of team.

Behind our line with our receivers and our coordinator, any QB is going to have at least a decent year. And the following are myths about Kyle Orton: He has a noodle arm, he can't move, he's stupid and he's one of the worst QB's in the league.

It's also funny that the Orton supporters think his troubles were because of a terrible offensive line and bad receivers. I think that you are going to see this season that neither statement was completely true.

As to your list of myths: Orton may not have a noodle arm, but he has never shown himself to be very accurate, especially more than 10 yards past the LOS. Can you show any highlights last year where Orton made a play moving aroung? Ask any non-Bronco fan where Orton rates as a starting QB, and he will definitely fall in the bottom third. He can change that this year, but that is where he is right now.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-08-2009, 12:14 PM
Hmmm...

One team had Bill Belichick as a defensive coordinator and the other had Bob Slowik.

Hmmm...

And we've now got Mike Nolan and not Bob Slowick.

Hmmm.

Kaylore
06-08-2009, 12:22 PM
You may be referring to me, in that case it's an exaggerated statement. Regardless, a good chunk of the OL and WRs production did stem from Jay's talents.


You've definitely made some comments but weren't the main group I had in mind. I think the offense helped each other. It's a team thing. Of course Marshall and Royal benefited from an accurate QB, who can attack down field and throw into tight windows. However Royal is hard to cover in man and Marshall is a beast after the catch. Those aren't things that are lost when the signal caller changes. Orton is a better redzone QB than Cutler too. Yes, having Forte is a big part of that, but not turning the ball over and eliminating the panic throws is as well.


How much do we lose with Orton or Simms?
Simms isn't very good. He isn't clutch and is mentally not that tough. Not real thrilled about him as a starter, but he's a good backup. Simms >>>>> Ramsey big time. Orton is not as good as Cutler. I will never argue he is. However there are things he does better than Cutler: Manage the ball, step into the rush to throw, knowing the situation and not panicking and reading the line and understanding the coverage down field. He lacks the accuracy, arm strength and athleticism of Cutler. However he's studious and works hard and played pretty well for the crap line, bum ankle and poor receivers he had. I think he can be a good starter in this league under McDaniels' tutelage.

How much individual progress do the players achieve with another season of game experience and conditioning?

Since this is the wild card factor it's hard to say. Conventional wisdom around here is no one can get any better and if you don't play well as a rookie you suck forever. I think the superior coaching staff is going to get more out of what we have, especially on defense. More turnovers and better special teams play will lead to shorter fields, more possessions and a more controlled game tempo.


Will the new scheme be a step forward from last season's, making more offensive strides, or will it be another step back?
I think offensively it's a large step back in yardage but a significant step up in points. I have a hard time seeing a team learning an entirely new system looking very good early. Shanahan rarely put a premium on smarts so it's difficult to say how easily this team is digesting everything. That said, all offensives are fundamentally the same and a lot of what our best players on offense do well has to do with their raw athletic ability which translates to any system.

BroncoMan4ever
06-08-2009, 12:39 PM
Nope. Wrong on all counts. Chris Simms has actually never been benched, in the NFL anyway. Griese won the starting job in 2005, but when he went down in Week 6, Simms came in and started the rest of the way that season, played pretty well - showed flashes of real field general leadeship I thought.

The next year, Simms actually beat out Gradkowski, Rattay and McNown for the starting job, but he didn't play that well, and went down in Week 3 with the spleen.

I suppose in 2004 when Brad Johnson came back from injury and reclaimed his job from Simms - that was kinda like a benching, but not really, the job was Johnson's to begin with. And I suppose when Gruden PASSED OVER Simms for Jeff Garcia while they waited for Chris's mid-season return from the spleen in 2007, that was a tiny bit like a benching, but not really. Besides, Garcia played great, and it's pretty well accepted that Gruden was a dick to Simms anyway.

I am more concerned that Simms could not beat out Kerry Collins last year in Tennessee ???

a number 3 overall pick can't beat out Collins, why is it surprising a guy without a spleen couldn't beat out Collins?

say what you want about Collins being a bit of a journeyman, but when he is given the opportunity he actually is a decent QB.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
06-08-2009, 12:57 PM
a number 3 overall pick can't beat out Collins, why is it surprising a guy without a spleen couldn't beat out Collins?

say what you want about Collins being a bit of a journeyman, but when he is given the opportunity he actually is a decent QB.

The guy went to the Pro Bowl last year, it's not like he has no ability.

c_lazy_r
06-08-2009, 03:06 PM
If youre going to try to find an angle to spin this positively for Orton, try the fact that Orton was young. He played a lot as a rookie in 2005 and purely tried to not lose games. He wasnt really a threat. This perception has carried forward. He was clearly a better QB last year than he was as a rookie, which is where the perception that many have of him comes from. The times that Griese played were when Grossman was still seen as the QB of the future.



Whats also hilarious is claiming Wiegmann is better than Kreutz.




There are myths about Orton but there is also a glaring reality that should prevent advocating him absolutely and completely, which is that he has a very small sample size of showing he could actually carry a team or win games as a QB. As it stands now, no one knows to what degree that will be necessary and also no one knows to what degree our QB will be able to keep the defense from loading up against the running game.

Whereas Cutler has proven these things with his larger "sample size"? The guy is 17-20 as a starter...

Contrary to popular belief around here, Cutler didn't throw a touchdown every time he lined up under center.

The defense can be blamed to a large degree for our record last season but please look at the offensive point production in our losses last year. 15.5 points per game. Those aren't exactly offensive shootout kinda numbers.

lex
06-08-2009, 03:15 PM
Whereas Cutler has proven these things with his larger "sample size"? The guy is 17-20 as a starter...

Contrary to popular belief around here, Cutler didn't throw a touchdown every time he lined up under center.

The defense can be blamed to a large degree for our record last season but please look at the offensive point production in our losses last year. 15.5 points per game. Those aren't exactly offensive shootout kinda numbers.

Was I talking about Cutler?

elsid13
06-08-2009, 03:16 PM
Some of the best decision making I've seen.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80b05488/Buccaneers-Defense-Highlight-WK-03-vs-Bears-2008

c_lazy_r
06-08-2009, 03:23 PM
Was I talking about Cutler?

My point was that we didn't trade away a proven winner and replace him with Orton.

Beantown Bronco
06-08-2009, 03:24 PM
Some of the best decision making I've seen.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80b05488/Buccaneers-Defense-Highlight-WK-03-vs-Bears-2008

I'm gonna go ahead and recommend that anyone posting in the "I've been barfing non-stop" thread not click on that link.

TheReverend
06-08-2009, 03:27 PM
I'm gonna go ahead and recommend that anyone posting in the "I've been barfing non-stop" thread not click on that link.

They need the purge.

tonngo0
06-08-2009, 04:15 PM
[QUOTE=Kaylore;2438750]Orton is not as good as Cutler. I will never argue he is. However there are things he does better than Cutler: Manage the ball, step into the rush to throw, knowing the situation and not panicking and reading the line and understanding the coverage down field. He lacks the accuracy, arm strength and athleticism of Cutler. However he's studious and works hard and played pretty well for the crap line, bum ankle and poor receivers he had. I think he can be a good starter in this league under McDaniels' tutelage.QUOTE]

I just hope that he can read the defense better than finding his way to Invesco Field.

BroncoBuff
06-08-2009, 04:24 PM
a number 3 overall pick can't beat out Collins, why is it surprising a guy without a spleen couldn't beat out Collins?

say what you want about Collins being a bit of a journeyman, but when he is given the opportunity he actually is a decent QB.

You're right ... I liked him a lot with the Giants.

BMan, Simms is gonna surprise you :thumbs:

s0phr0syne
06-08-2009, 04:26 PM
If Andrew Walter gets cut soon, is it worth bringing in to see what a real offensive staff can do to develop him? Or was he in the black hole too long?

Hulamau
06-08-2009, 04:30 PM
The more I think about the actual talent level we're approaching the season with, the more mind=blown I get.

One guy was benched in favor of Gradkowski, Griese, and even had his Offensive HC trade for Jake Plummer. Basically benched in favor of anyone else in the Tampa area...

The other guy was benched in favor of Rex Grossman, Brian Griese again, and even after a "break out" season last year, his OC has publicly stated they were going to draft a new QB and cut him anyways.

Jesus Christ.

While invoking his name Rev, maybe you can ask 'Jesus' to show us all that quote from Turner where he said he was going to cut Orton 'anyways!?! I suspect it might take a 'miracle' to dig that up!

Either that, or maybe you can ask Footsteps nicely and he can help you out. He's got real skill as a creative writer ... I'm sure he can come up with some interesting 'Turner' quotes about what he was planning on doing with sad sack Orton. :afro:

fdf
06-08-2009, 04:45 PM
Exactly. It's only one guy's whose blind and the other whose armless. :welcome:

Yes. But both are bipedal. So at leasts there's that.

But I do wish McPoopyHead hadn't cut off their arms and put out their eyes. Were he a more experienced coach, he would have known better than to do that. Stupid rookie mistake.

Popps
06-08-2009, 04:45 PM
I haven't seen anyone around here spouting unrealistic expectations. The overwhelming majority of the posts I read seem to think that McD will do a good job with what he has, but that this will be a more complete team, not a 1-man-show, a la Cutler.

But, perhaps some people are optimistic because Orton AND Simms have better winning percentages than Cutler, and both come with better reputations as team players.

So, I don't see a need to crush any sort of uprising of optimism around here.
Most of the expectations have been pretty reasonable.

Then again, with Cutler setting the bar so low as far as wins, and only throwing 7 more TDs than INTs... perhaps a little optimism just may well be in order.

Atwater His Ass
06-08-2009, 05:13 PM
To go from the best long term QB situation in the NFL to the worst without anything to really show for it really sucks.

^ this

oubronco
06-08-2009, 05:21 PM
The more I think about the actual talent level we're approaching the season with, the more mind=blown I get.

One guy was benched in favor of Gradkowski, Griese, and even had his Offensive HC trade for Jake Plummer. Basically benched in favor of anyone else in the Tampa area...

The other guy was benched in favor of Rex Grossman, Brian Griese again, and even after a "break out" season last year, his OC has publicly stated they were going to draft a new QB and cut him anyways.

Jesus Christ.

exactly why you should NEVER trade a franchise QB no matter what

and I don't want to hear the McD didn't trade him B.S., it happened !!

Br0nc0Buster
06-08-2009, 05:33 PM
exactly why you should NEVER trade a franchise QB no matter what

and I don't want to hear the McD didn't trade him B.S., it happened !!

thats right I forgot McDaniels was the owner of the Denver Broncos...

Popps
06-08-2009, 06:39 PM
exactly why you should NEVER trade a franchise QB no matter what


Let me know when we have one to trade. Haven't had one since Elway, as far as I can tell.


and I don't want to hear the McD didn't trade him B.S., it happened !!

Oh, you talking about Quitter Cutler? The guy who brings his daddy to meetings with him and wouldn't talk to our coach one on one? That quitter? The guy who demanded to be sent elsewhere?

Mr. Sub-.500?

Maybe he just had to get out of the AFC West so he wouldn't be in Rivers' shadow. Couldn't handle being the 2nd best QB in the division, and now with Cassel, he may have been the 3rd best.

That's O.K... he's in a **** division now where no one will be mean to him and tease him like Phillip did.

bowtown
06-08-2009, 07:05 PM
There seems to some crazy expectations for this current unit, and I think we should have a thread dedicated to "why"

Optimistically, maybe McDaniels can create something special. Maybe his scheme is SO good that we can completely mask deficiencies at the most important position in the game.

Realistically, we have the LEAST talented QB stable in several decades. Cutler, far superior. Plummer, much better. Brian Griese? Oh, he beat them BOTH out in two different cities. Elway... well, come on.

Ummmm... maybe you forgot about Tom Branstander (T-Money, as I like to call him)? He didn't carry the Bulldogs to 7-6 record on his laurels.

TheReverend
06-08-2009, 07:09 PM
Ummmm... maybe you forgot about Tom Branstander (T-Money, as I like to call him)? He didn't carry the Bulldogs to 7-6 record on his laurels.

I'm an idiot. Sorry man.

bowtown
06-08-2009, 07:13 PM
I'm an idiot. Sorry man.

Just don't let it happen again.

oubronco
06-08-2009, 07:20 PM
Let me know when we have one to trade. Haven't had one since Elway, as far as I can tell.



Oh, you talking about Quitter Cutler? The guy who brings his daddy to meetings with him and wouldn't talk to our coach one on one? That quitter? The guy who demanded to be sent elsewhere?

Mr. Sub-.500?

Maybe he just had to get out of the AFC West so he wouldn't be in Rivers' shadow. Couldn't handle being the 2nd best QB in the division, and now with Cassel, he may have been the 3rd best.

That's O.K... he's in a **** division now where no one will be mean to him and tease him like Phillip did.

say what you want but he's head and shoulders above the crap we now have at the QB position

Popps
06-08-2009, 07:23 PM
say what you want but he's head and shoulders above the crap we now have at the QB position

What we had got us the first three non-playoff seasons since the 1970s, if I'm not mistaken.

Shanahan thought he could fix it all with a QB.

He couldn't, particularly the one he chose.

So, it cost him his job and the pouty-ass QB pouted his way out of town. Again, hopefully he's far enough from Phillip to be able to concentrate on football.

oubronco
06-08-2009, 07:24 PM
What we had got us the first three non-playoff seasons since the 1970s, if I'm not mistaken.

Shanahan thought he could fix it all with a QB.

He couldn't, particularly the one he chose.

So, it cost him his job and the pouty-ass QB pouted his way out of town. Again, hopefully he's far enough from Phillip to be able to concentrate on football.

I know it's all Cutlers fault :spit: you do realize that we had NO defense right

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2009, 07:24 PM
say what you want but he's head and shoulders above the crap we now have at the QB position
Don't confuse Popps with reality.

BroncoBuff
06-08-2009, 08:10 PM
To go from the best long term QB situation in the NFL to the worst without anything to really show for it really sucks.

I agree Cutler and Simms were a long-term dream-scenario at quarterback, but we didn't "get nothing." We got Robert Ayers and Alphonso Smith ... two blue chip defensive rookies. And we might get - if Chicago really sucks next year - we might get a higher/much higher 1st rounder than we earn on our own.

BroncoBuff
06-08-2009, 08:11 PM
I know it's all Cutlers fault :spit: you do realize that we had NO defense right

The funny part is, there's NO WAY Popps would be popping off like this had there been no Cutler-gate.

In fact Popps, I bet you would have really savaged somebody who made that same post you just made if Cutler-gate had never happened.

Meck77
06-08-2009, 09:05 PM
Ok if we're going to speculate on the QB situation then my take is this. It's the opposite of whatever Taco thinks. He's always wrong.;D

Seriously. We have a couple average QBs who are fighting their ass off to play. Better to have a "plummer/leader" type with a decent defense (2005) than a Jay Cutler crap football team like we've had.

Yeah our schedule is tough but we've been getting embarrassed on the football field under Cutler anyway. Yeah yeah I know. Losing and the beat downs had nothing to do with Jay.

lex
06-08-2009, 09:15 PM
My point was that we didn't trade away a proven winner and replace him with Orton.

No, you had no point. It wasnt even relevant to what I said. It wasnt relevant to the thread.

Popps
06-08-2009, 09:15 PM
I know it's all Cutlers fault :spit: you do realize that we had NO defense right

Oh, no ****?

Thanks. I also realize he could have easily locked up a playoff spot against Buffalo by showing up and playing like a "franchise" quarterback.

Instead, he pooped down his leg.

Sure, he needs a defense. But, all I hear from the widows is how he was a franchise QB and he himself guarantees a playoff spot.

Well, Rivers stepped up when his team needed him. Jay shat the bed. End of story.

You widows keep those candles burning for a guy who didn't want to be a Bronco, though.

:thumbsup:

Popps
06-08-2009, 09:17 PM
Don't confuse Popps with reality.

What's wrong there, pouty? Did your old-lady alarm go off? Someone was talking about football and you needed to rush in to try to toss a wet blanket on the whole thing?

You must be a riot at parties.

footstepsfrom#27
06-08-2009, 09:19 PM
What's wrong there, pouty? Did your old-lady alarm go off? Someone was talking about football and you needed to rush in to try to toss a wet blanket on the whole thing?

You must be a riot at parties.
Popps in all honesty...you're schtick is just tired. Get some new material.

GreatBronco16
06-08-2009, 09:40 PM
Popps in all honesty...you're schtick is just tired. Get some new material.


Hilarious!

Stop it, you're 'material' is just too much.

Hamrob
06-08-2009, 10:04 PM
This is what scares me. Typically, its the elite QB's who can beat the heat. I mean...when the box is stacked...and the pressure is on...they can move the chains.

Defenses smell blood...and when you can't throw the ball down field...they stack the box...shut down the run, pin their ears back and come calling.

If they don't respect Orton...that's what will happen. With a guy like JC...they were scared. Don't even try it when you have John Elway. But, with Orton/Simms...it could be problematic.

I think both guys have the talent...I really do...but they have to believe in themselves and become playmakers. Absent of that...there will be problems and we will be back to square one with the QB position.

GreatBronco16
06-08-2009, 10:13 PM
With a guy like JC...they were scared.


Which teams were scared of Cutler? I know the Chargers didn't have a problem getting in his head, even the week before the game, they were in his head. Teams were not scared of Cutler.

Evenrude
06-09-2009, 09:47 AM
When the Cutler trade was immanent there were only a couple QBs I wanted to see involved... Orton or Campbell. It could have been much worse... (Brady Quinn maybe?) Now I still think Cutler has all the talent in the world, but it's still to be seen if he ends up another Elway or a Jeff George.

If Orton has rededicated himself to football he could be a very good NFL QB.

He also has the greatest twitter account out there: http://twitter.com/KingNeckbeard

;)

lex
06-09-2009, 09:57 AM
Which teams were scared of Cutler? I know the Chargers didn't have a problem getting in his head, even the week before the game, they were in his head. Teams were not scared of Cutler.

All teams. When Cutler was a rookie, it was noticeable even then. Prior to Plummer being bench, there was a lot of Plummer apologists out there blaming the running game, when it was the opposite. It was no coincidence that as soon as Cutler was inserted in as a starter, the RBs started to become more productive. They had to respect Cutlers arm. Its a simple as that. You can question his decision making and all that but there is no way they can totally ignore his ability to make every throw. As a matter of fact, if anything, the defenses defended the pass more. Our running game was ho-hum for a lot of the year.

But Cutler aside (he is in Chicago now), the questions about Orton being able to punish the defense when the load up against the run is valid. He had a brief window where he seemed to be doing that last year but then he was injured. Time will tell.