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Bronco Rob
06-06-2009, 01:53 PM
Tony Scheffler, when asked if he anticipated a breakout year in Josh McDaniels' offense: "Don't talk about a breakout year. It's my fourth year. I'd like to go to the playoffs. That's my No. 1 goal. We're trying to put individual stuff behind us and concentrate on the team."

Good thing. Because, as the losses mounted in recent years, a looking-out-for-No. 1 selfishness had set in at Dove Valley. Enter McDaniels, who has instilled a team-first attitude, the likes of which the Broncos had in Mike Shanahan's glory days. Frankly, that had to happen before this team could move forward. . . .

Everyone talks about the culture of losing at Coors Field. What about Dove Valley? The Broncos are in danger of missing the playoffs for a fourth consecutive season. That hasn't happened since 1973-76, the latter years of the John Ralston era. . . .

Which brings us to today's trivia question: How many current Broncos have gone to the playoffs in a Denver uniform? Answer several dots south. . . .

No, they haven't gone off to the Lingerie Football League. Then again, just to illustrate how shaky the Broncos' defense was last season, several starters haven't signed with other teams. The list: Nate Webster, Jamie Winborn, Ebenezer Ekuban and John Engelberger. Then there's Marquand Manuel, Marlon McCree and Dre Bly, who just emerged from the scrapheap to get backup gigs in the past few days. . . .




http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_12532713

Broncojef
06-06-2009, 02:08 PM
Amazing the steps we had to take to get back to a team concept...you'd think that would be the goal of any coaching staff.

barryr
06-06-2009, 02:32 PM
This team was not headed anywhere until they took the defense and special teams seriously. I like that McDaniels, at least from what he has stated, seems to understand this and isn't just focusing on one side of the ball which happened with Shanahan the last 10 years or so.

DBroncos4life
06-06-2009, 02:43 PM
This team was not headed anywhere until they took the defense and special teams seriously. I like that McDaniels, at least from what he has stated, seems to understand this and isn't just focusing on one side of the ball which happened with Shanahan the last 10 years or so.

Then why did we fire DC's and SP team coaches year in and year out?

footstepsfrom#27
06-06-2009, 03:04 PM
Tony Scheffler, when asked if he anticipated a breakout year in Josh McDaniels' offense: "Don't talk about a breakout year. It's my fourth year. I'd like to go to the playoffs. That's my No. 1 goal. We're trying to put individual stuff behind us and concentrate on the team."

Good thing. Because, as the losses mounted in recent years, a looking-out-for-No. 1 selfishness had set in at Dove Valley. Enter McDaniels, who has instilled a team-first attitude, the likes of which the Broncos had in Mike Shanahan's glory days. Frankly, that had to happen before this team could move forward. . . .

Everyone talks about the culture of losing at Coors Field. What about Dove Valley? The Broncos are in danger of missing the playoffs for a fourth consecutive season. That hasn't happened since 1973-76, the latter years of the John Ralston era. . . .

Which brings us to today's trivia question: How many current Broncos have gone to the playoffs in a Denver uniform? Answer several dots south. . . .

No, they haven't gone off to the Lingerie Football League. Then again, just to illustrate how shaky the Broncos' defense was last season, several starters haven't signed with other teams. The list: Nate Webster, Jamie Winborn, Ebenezer Ekuban and John Engelberger. Then there's Marquand Manuel, Marlon McCree and Dre Bly, who just emerged from the scrapheap to get backup gigs in the past few days. . . .
You know...I think most people read what the "real" reporters write in newspaper accounts on the web out of force of habbit, thinking it's got some greater inherent value since it's the official press. The more I read these lazy, poorly supported, overly simplistic snippets...I can't call them stories...by the DPO or other newspaper writers, the more convinced I am that the better writers are on blogs and discussion boards like this one. Is this even a story at all? Or is it just a guy mailing it in and getting paid for something anyone on this board could write?

It's an obvious slap in the face at Shanahan, not that I'm saying he was above criticism, because he definitely is not, but if you're writing for the DPO and you say something this pointed in terms of its direct implications for why we failed the last 10 years, you ought to back it up with some factual examples. Give us multiple interviews of former Broncos willing to talk about it, not a 5 second conversation with a guy playing right now, who doesn't really even say anything to support your conclusion. If he could truly back up this supposed "me first" idea that he says dominated the prior regime, why doesn't he? But in fact I doubt anyone will even ask him to.

Now let's do 200 posts on this drivel.

telluride
06-06-2009, 04:04 PM
You know...I think most people read what the "real" reporters write in newspaper accounts on the web out of force of habbit, thinking it's got some greater inherent value since it's the official press. The more I read these lazy, poorly supported, overly simplistic snippets...I can't call them stories...by the DPO or other newspaper writers, the more convinced I am that the better writers are on blogs and discussion boards like this one. Is this even a story at all? Or is it just a guy mailing it in and getting paid for something anyone on this board could write?

It's an obvious slap in the face at Shanahan, not that I'm saying he was above criticism, because he definitely is not, but if you're writing for the DPO and you say something this pointed in terms of its direct implications for why we failed the last 10 years, you ought to back it up with some factual examples. Give us multiple interviews of former Broncos willing to talk about it, not a 5 second conversation with a guy playing right now, who doesn't really even say anything to support your conclusion. If he could truly back up this supposed "me first" idea that he says dominated the prior regime, why doesn't he? But in fact I doubt anyone will even ask him to.

Now let's do 200 posts on this drivel.

Shanahan deserved the slap. He fielded a .500 team for the past three years. He managed only one playoff win in the past decade. The outsized reverence with which he was treated for such lowly production was laughable, and it harmed the team.

footstepsfrom#27
06-06-2009, 04:09 PM
Shanahan deserved the slap. He fielded a .500 team for the past three years. He managed only one playoff win in the past decade. The outsized reverence with which he was treated for such lowly production was laughable, and it harmed the team.
And I've been one of his detractors...that doesn't change the fact that these NPO writers are producing almost nothing of any real value, nor the fact that this "story" has nothing included to back it up.

I can write better stuff than this...so can lots of people on this board.

OBF1
06-06-2009, 04:15 PM
Then why did we fire DC's and SP team coaches year in and year out?

Because our head coach had no idea who to hire, Mostly just scapegoats to cover his ass season after season.

maher_tyler
06-06-2009, 04:32 PM
You know...I think most people read what the "real" reporters write in newspaper accounts on the web out of force of habbit, thinking it's got some greater inherent value since it's the official press. The more I read these lazy, poorly supported, overly simplistic snippets...I can't call them stories...by the DPO or other newspaper writers, the more convinced I am that the better writers are on blogs and discussion boards like this one. Is this even a story at all? Or is it just a guy mailing it in and getting paid for something anyone on this board could write?

It's an obvious slap in the face at Shanahan, not that I'm saying he was above criticism, because he definitely is not, but if you're writing for the DPO and you say something this pointed in terms of its direct implications for why we failed the last 10 years, you ought to back it up with some factual examples. Give us multiple interviews of former Broncos willing to talk about it, not a 5 second conversation with a guy playing right now, who doesn't really even say anything to support your conclusion. If he could truly back up this supposed "me first" idea that he says dominated the prior regime, why doesn't he? But in fact I doubt anyone will even ask him to.

Now let's do 200 posts on this drivel.

The way Webster and Winborn celebrated after a getting a tackle 5 yards down field is all the examples i need...funny know one has even signed them as a back ups. As much as i liked Shanny..it was time for him to go!!

BroncoInSkinland
06-06-2009, 04:38 PM
Has anyone ever heard a football player come out and say, "Yeah, I'm going to have a breakout year. It's my fourth year. I'd like to set some records, I don't care about post season. That's my No. 1 goal. I'm trying to put the team behind me and concentrate on myself."? I'm just saying, there isn't much else the guys CAN say.

I think McDaniels does have these guys a little more motivated than in recent years, for fear of their jobs if nothing else. I do think they have achieved more of a team mentality, but at the same time quotes aren't going to throw blocks for their teammates come September.

barryr
06-06-2009, 05:01 PM
Then why did we fire DC's and SP team coaches year in and year out?

Check how they drafted for defense the last decade and how those players developed. That helps answer that one.

fdf
06-06-2009, 05:29 PM
Check how they drafted for defense the last decade and how those players developed. That helps answer that one.

Quoted for truth. Al Wilson was the last outstanding defensive draft pick the Broncos made.

Pretty Good: DJ Williams, Heyward.

Good: Darrent Williams, Dumervil.

May turn out good: Marcus Thomas, Spencer Larsen, WW, Crowder.

I've probably missed someone. (Obviously, I'm not counting this year because we have no idea how any of the new guys will turn out.)

That's pretty slim pickin's for ten years of drafting.

footstepsfrom#27
06-06-2009, 06:10 PM
The way Webster and Winborn celebrated after a getting a tackle 5 yards down field is all the examples i need...funny know one has even signed them as a back ups. As much as i liked Shanny..it was time for him to go!!
So because you can point out a couple of showboaters and (justifiably) finger Shanahan for the team's recent failures, that means you're satisifed with a writer who states something and offers not one word of proof to back it up? I guess that response is what typifies why they're able to get away with it.

If having a couple attention seekers indicates the entire team doesn't care about team goals, well then pretty much every team in the NFL is guilty of collective selfishness. I just find it absurd that a guy who hasn't even run a training camp yet is suddenly credited with magically bringing "team" to a bunch of guys who were purely selfish under a probable HOF coach. But that's the legacy of this whoe affair isn't it? We can revise things however we wish now as long as it flies with what people would like to hear.

Armstrong is like all these other clowns who have turned into mini-celebrities in their own right because the web or the tube offer them a platorm for getting their face and their views in front of fans. Skip Bayliss and Woody Paige are the best examples...but those guys are just more extreme versions of the same thing. I'm not sure where the real sports writers have gone...I suppose to magazines...because nothing these newspaper guys do is worth a crap.

When's the last time you read a REAL story by a Denver Post writer, or any other newspaper guy for that matter?

Kaylore
06-06-2009, 07:04 PM
This article is pretty accurate. It sort of is a chicken Vs. Egg thing, though. When a team is losing and has no confidence the players only think of themselves because there's nothing else.

OABB
06-06-2009, 07:06 PM
So because you can point out a couple of showboaters and (justifiably) finger Shanahan for the team's recent failures, that means you're satisifed with a writer who states something and offers not one word of proof to back it up? I guess that response is what typifies why they're able to get away with it.

If having a couple attention seekers indicates the entire team doesn't care about team goals, well then pretty much every team in the NFL is guilty of collective selfishness. I just find it absurd that a guy who hasn't even run a training camp yet is suddenly credited with magically bringing "team" to a bunch of guys who were purely selfish under a probable HOF coach. But that's the legacy of this whoe affair isn't it? We can revise things however we wish now as long as it flies with what people would like to hear.

Armstrong is like all these other clowns who have turned into mini-celebrities in their own right because the web or the tube offer them a platorm for getting their face and their views in front of fans. Skip Bayliss and Woody Paige are the best examples...but those guys are just more extreme versions of the same thing. I'm not sure where the real sports writers have gone...I suppose to magazines...because nothing these newspaper guys do is worth a crap.

When's the last time you read a REAL story by a Denver Post writer, or any other newspaper guy for that matter?

I'm curious, what exactly do you expect to be covered during the offseason. There simply isn't enough to cover. That is why we have so many polls and racial threads here as well. It's the offseason foot, this is the way it has always been.

BroncoInSkinland
06-06-2009, 07:20 PM
I'm curious, what exactly do you expect to be covered during the offseason. There simply isn't enough to cover. That is why we have so many polls and racial threads here as well. It's the offseason foot, this is the way it has always been.

Cheerleaders lingerie choices would be my first pick. Inquiring minds and all that...

yerner
06-06-2009, 07:30 PM
what a load of horse****. teams win with talent. 'team first' is some writer/coach crap that ignores the fact that this a profession that has to do with having the best players.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-06-2009, 07:46 PM
what a load of horse****. teams win with talent. 'team first' is some writer/coach crap that ignores the fact that this a profession that has to do with having the best players.

I couldnt disagree more actually. Football more than any sport has to do with team unity and how they play together. You can get by on lesser talent if you play mistake free football as a team. of course youd rather have great talent AND great team chemistry

Natedogg
06-06-2009, 07:47 PM
Because our head coach had no idea who to hire, Mostly just scapegoats to cover his ass season after season.

I think it all started to go south when he fired Ray Rhodes.

BroncoInSkinland
06-06-2009, 07:57 PM
I couldnt disagree more actually. Football more than any sport has to do with team unity and how they play together. You can get by on lesser talent if you play mistake free football as a team. of course youd rather have great talent AND great team chemistry

I agree with the overall statement that team chemistry is important in football, but I think arguments could be made that it is just as important if not more in basketball, soccer, hockey, or any other fast action team sport. Definitely beats out baseball as far as chemistry goes, but that is a bold statement...

footstepsfrom#27
06-06-2009, 08:17 PM
I'm curious, what exactly do you expect to be covered during the offseason. There simply isn't enough to cover. That is why we have so many polls and racial threads here as well. It's the offseason foot, this is the way it has always been.
Cripes...they're not even trying to search for anything, they're just slopping things together. How 'bout them doing some digging about the new guys and at least writing something in depth about them other than the two paragraph fluff we get? How is it that I can dig up stuff on these guys with an hour in Google and these guys can't? I even wrote a couple stories in here that were way more researched than anything the paid writers have done this preseason. Other posters on the OM have also done way better work that these guys. I think they're just unwilling to spend time on this when they don't have to since they're apparently under no pressure to produce anything good. I think the biggest reason is because there is no RMN competing with them anymore so why bother? If nothing else...when a writer like Armstrong comes out with something like this, he ought to have some supporting information to back it up.

Before the internet, I remember the Post had some cool stories almost every night on the rookies and new players. Now I'd say that 90% of everything we get we dig up ourselves. The DPO should fire their writers and just let the OM or the other Bronco forum writers submit stories.

OABB
06-06-2009, 08:20 PM
Cripes...they're not even trying to search for anything, they're just slopping things together. How 'bout them doing some digging about the new guys and at least writing something in depth about them other than the two paragraph fluff we get? How is it that I can dig up stuff on these guys with an hour in Google and these guys can't? I even wrote a couple stories in here that were way more researched than anything the paid writers have done this preseason. Other posters on the OM have also done way better work that these guys. I think they're just unwilling to spend time on this when they don't have to since they're apparently under no pressure to produce anything good. I think the biggest reason is because there is no RMN competing with them anymore so why bother? If nothing else...when a writer like Armstrong comes out with something like this, he ought to have some supporting information to back it up.

Before the internet, I remember the Post had some cool stories almost every night on the rookies and new players. Now I'd say that 90% of everything we get we dig up ourselves. The DPO should fire their writers and just let the OM or the other Bronco forum writers submit stories.

I think that is a great idea. I nominate Lex to do the NBA section, and Bob to do the "lifestyle" section...

footstepsfrom#27
06-06-2009, 08:24 PM
I think that is a great idea. I nominate Lex to do the NBA section, and Bob to do the "lifestyle" section...
Well believe it or not, even Bob has written stuff better than this.

OABB
06-06-2009, 08:25 PM
Well believe it or not, even Bob has written stuff better than this.

Well to be fair, Armstrong "actually" wrote it.

SonOfLe-loLang
06-06-2009, 08:25 PM
I agree with the overall statement that team chemistry is important in football, but I think arguments could be made that it is just as important if not more in basketball, soccer, hockey, or any other fast action team sport. Definitely beats out baseball as far as chemistry goes, but that is a bold statement...

In basketball one person can take over a game. Maybe less so with soccer or hockey, but still can. With football, you need all 11 doing their jobs to make it work. If your offensive line sucks, it renders your great QB or RB useless. This goes on and on down the line. Team chemistry is important in any sport, true, but i personally dont believe you rely on your teammates more than you do in football.

BroncoInSkinland
06-06-2009, 08:51 PM
In basketball one person can take over a game. Maybe less so with soccer or hockey, but still can. With football, you need all 11 doing their jobs to make it work. If your offensive line sucks, it renders your great QB or RB useless. This goes on and on down the line. Team chemistry is important in any sport, true, but i personally dont believe you rely on your teammates more than you do in football.

John Elway is the greatest example of a single player taking over games in football, so we know it can work with this sport too. How many times have we heard "If Montana had to play with Elways supporting cast he would have been out of the league in X years." Exceptional players can have an impact regardless of the sport. In a game like basketball, with fewer active players out there, I think chemistry is even more important. If you have issues between two of your stars, or one guy who wants to run up his stat line, it can ruin the entire team much more rapidly as there aren't as many others to cover for his hot dogging.

footstepsfrom#27
06-06-2009, 08:58 PM
Every team that's losing has issues with unity. Every winning team pimps their togetherness. Every team with a new coach gets upbeat about the changes, regardless of what they are. We'll know how much teamwork these guys have when we see it on the field, not in the press.

KipCorrington25
06-07-2009, 12:01 AM
Scheffler needs to do something on the field first before he gets quoted so much in the paper, he get's more ink for doing less than only Foxworthy did.

Stay off IR for 16 games and then talk big in the papers.

Popps
06-07-2009, 12:20 AM
Has anyone ever heard a football player come out and say, "Yeah, I'm going to have a breakout year..

Yes. Many times. Constantly, actually.

Not only good players... you've got back-up quality guys like Selvin Young popping off about 2000 yards.


I think McDaniels does have these guys a little more motivated than in recent years, for fear of their jobs if nothing else. I do think they have achieved more of a team mentality, but at the same time quotes aren't going to throw blocks for their teammates come September.

I think the point of the article was... it's a very different atmosphere around Broncos headquarters these days. You can hear it in every single player's voice. You can call it fear, or maybe they're buying into a team concept. We'll see.

Still, the article is just an observation. It's legitimate because it's impossible to refute. I guarantee you... you won't hear any Selvin Young bull**** from any of our players this season.

It's about the team now. This is long overdue, and the writer of the article just pointed out a legitimate observation.

BroncoBuff
06-07-2009, 01:22 AM
"We're trying to put individual stuff behind us and concentrate on the team."

Tony drank the Koolaid ... Jay, knife, back.

BroncoBuff
06-07-2009, 01:25 AM
Yes. Many times. Constantly, actually.

Not only good players... you've got back-up quality guys like Selvin Young popping off about 2000 yards.

Don't forget Jarvis Moss last year.

Hulamau
06-07-2009, 01:39 AM
Then why did we fire DC's and SP team coaches year in and year out?

two reasons.

1. Most weren't very good
2. And they were perfect scapegoats for Shanny's increasingly imbalanced management of the entire team. Except for a few bright spots, things started sliding down hill when Shanny took over the whole show.

Hulamau
06-07-2009, 02:17 AM
Yes. Many times. Constantly, actually.

Not only good players... you've got back-up quality guys like Selvin Young popping off about 2000 yards.

I think the point of the article was... it's a very different atmosphere around Broncos headquarters these days. You can hear it in every single player's voice. You can call it fear, or maybe they're buying into a team concept. We'll see.

Still, the article is just an observation. It's legitimate because it's impossible to refute. I guarantee you... you won't hear any Selvin Young bull**** from any of our players this season.

It's about the team now. This is long overdue, and the writer of the article just pointed out a legitimate observation.

Amen Brother, and this is precisely why I find solid reasons for optimism going forward in answer to some here who are still mixing cyanide in their orange tang for breakfast.

Its more than just which player we have at DE or nose. You can get a full collection of all pros, and without the right commitment, focus, tone and chemistry it all pretty much devolves into guys watching their own backs, more concerned about their personal stats and not getting injured than putting it all on the line for the team.

For all of Shanny's great accomplishments earlier in his career, like most people he just couldn't handle absolute power (or at least the appearance of it) and lost the ability to inspire his teams in recent years.

Perhaps its inevitable at some point when one guy controls all the marbles and has stayed around too long. That 2005 season was the last where Shanny seemed to have refocused, for a year at least, and actually took the time to reign in Plummer and limit his INTs, but neither he nor the team every seemed to recover from that AFC championship lost.

From then on, it felt like he put all of his marbles into his new strong arm QB and was hoping for another Elway-like miracle ... and perhaps to prove he could win without Elway himself. But he also lost control of the team in many of the little things such as motivating each player to get more out of himself than he knew he had.

I see strong signs of this attitude coming back now with McD, or at least many early indications of it, and that's a very good thing. Rebuilding a SB-ready team will take a little time, but I expect a more competitive team later this year, even if we aren't shocking teams and racing into the playoffs this year. Time will tell, but I doubt we're going to see the kind of embarrassing blow-outs where some of the guys throw in the towel after the first quarter any longer.

Hulamau
06-07-2009, 02:32 AM
Every team that's losing has issues with unity. Every winning team pimps their togetherness. Every team with a new coach gets upbeat about the changes, regardless of what they are. We'll know how much teamwork these guys have when we see it on the field, not in the press.

True enough but it starts in the details and the core attitude and tone set from the beginning. And its here that there is a different feeling and vibe coming from all the players now, in addition to the typical platitudes and 'Rah Rah' statements we hear every year at this time.

The real test will come when they hit a patch of adversity which no doubt we will at times this year. I want to see how they get back off the floor and come back swinging or not when they get knocked down and everyone in the press is doing the "see I told you so" routine.

I want to see a team plying more 'together' and more competitive at the end of the season even after losing some rather than being confident and sky high in the preseason and the first few games and then getting embarrassed the last quarter as was starting to be come the pattern around here.

Then we will know if this new change in attitude is for real and likely to last.

BroncoBuff
06-07-2009, 02:43 AM
John Elway is the greatest example of a single player taking over games in football, so we know it can work with this sport too. How many times have we heard "If Montana had to play with Elways supporting cast he would have been out of the league in X years." Exceptional players can have an impact regardless of the sport. In a game like basketball, with fewer active players out there, I think chemistry is even more important.

That's true about basketball and Elway, and add TD to that list too.

But I disagree on Montana, imo he would've stood out anywhere he played. Prolly not four rings, but definitely a star.

uplink
06-07-2009, 12:21 PM
Then why did we fire DC's and SP team coaches year in and year out?

Do you think Shanny wanted to keep Slowick since firing him would have further branded him as a coach who made scape goats of the DC's, and Bowlen saw through it?

Natedogg
06-07-2009, 12:35 PM
Do you think Shanny wanted to keep Slowick since firing him would have further branded him as a coach who made scape goats of the DC's, and Bowlen saw through it?

Awesome Avatar!!

footstepsfrom#27
06-07-2009, 06:49 PM
True enough but it starts in the details and the core attitude and tone set from the beginning. And its here that there is a different feeling and vibe coming from all the players now, in addition to the typical platitudes and 'Rah Rah' statements we hear every year at this time.
Pops appeared to be making a similar statement. My question is this; what's so different? What we're hearing are sound bytes...a few snippets on video from a guy with a mic in his face. Pops actually said that "all the players" were responding with a better attitude. I have no idea how he could know this unless he works in the Broncos organization. I frankly don't see a lot of difference between the current upbeat stuff and what we heard when Bates came in here.

If these players were in such a horrible situation with their attitudes, where was the reporting on this in the past? Maybe I missed it...did we have any significant reporting from either the OM ham 'n eggers or the "official" press describing past locker room attitudes as being the problem on this team? I'm not talking about your occasional player issue over a contract or something...I'm asking who was saying this was a problem on a wide scale prior to now?