Obama's speach to Muslims

[cutthemdown]

It's coming man I can't wait. I hear he is going to admit he's been Muslim all along and the last seeds of destruction have been sown!!!!!!

Or maybe not but either way I can't wait!@!!!!

[watermock]

He's gonna make "peace", while maintaining a 2 front war and challenging in the Balkans, as well as theatening Iran and N. Korea....

Of course with Hillary, and Bubba taking bribes from the mobsters in Russia and his cabinet infested with the NWO and run by Wall Street, "what me worry?"

[cutthemdown]

He's gonna make "peace", while maintaining a 2 front war and challenging in the Balkans, as well as theatening Iran and N. Korea....

Of course with Hillary, and Bubba taking bribes from the mobsters in Russia and his cabinet infested with the NWO and run by Wall Street, "what me worry?"

Is Obama going to try same thing on the world as he did with voters. Just sort of tell them what they want to hear? I mean if all he has to do to improve perception is make a speech and tell israel to accept a 2 state solution then that would be pretty masterful.

If Israel doesn't listen, these people will expect usa to sanction them through UN, cut off aid etc. Does Obama have those kind of balls. He takes on Israel that much and I think I would gain some respect from him.

If the Muslim world will sell out Al Queda is exchange for us making Israel let Palestinians have state hood I would be very very impressed. Obama is basically saying we will leave Iraq, we will push Israel, but we won't stop in Afghanistan and Pakistan until Al Queda and Bin Laden are dismantled.

[rastaman]

It's coming man I can't wait. I hear he is going to admit he's been Muslim all along and the last seeds of destruction have been sown!!!!!!

Or maybe not but either way I can't wait!@!!!!

I'm sure 10's of millions of conservatives and Republicans can't WAIT!!! I'm sure you would have much rather Palin or McCain give a speech to the Muslim world.....now that would have been PRICELESS......RIGHT! ROFL!

You conservative-Republicans have got to get real and realize the 8 years of damage and embarrassment the Bush Cabal (Junta) presidency has caused this country. "Republican-Cowboy" Gun-boat Imperialism and empire building is out dated 19th and 20th century foreign policy and is not suited for the
21st Century.

[cutthemdown]

I'm sure 10's of millions of conservatives and Republicans can't WAIT!!! I'm sure you would have much rather Palin or McCain give a speech to the Muslim world.....now that would have been PRICELESS......RIGHT! ROFL!

You conservative-Republicans have got to get real and realize the 8 years of damage and embarrassment the Bush Cabal (Junta) presidency has caused this country. "Republican-Cowboy" Gun-boat Imperialism and empire building is out dated 19th and 20th century foreign policy and is not suited for the
21st Century.

If it's only conservatives that think that then why is Obama still bombing the crap out of Afghanistan, Pakistan, building a huge base in Afghanistan?

Also do you think he will put the screws to Israel. Israel said no to his request to stop building in the settlements. I'm saying if he pulls this stuff off I will be impressed not that I'm against it.

I love the idea of playing nice while we bomb the crap out of them. Obama gets that one by them and I will serious respect his political skills.

I'm saying he's taking a lot of risks, I can't wait to see how it turns out.

All your saying is same ole BS.

[Smiling Assassin27]

He's gonna sound just like Bush. Israel is legitimate, denying the holocaust (Mr. Ahmadinejad) is foolish and evil, and oh yeah, get your sheeot together and quit blaming Israel for all your problems. Gaffney's probably blowing a gasket. Excerpt.

Finally, the Arab States must recognize that the Arab Peace Initiative was an important beginning, but not the end of their responsibilities. The Arab-Israeli conflict should no longer be used to distract the people of Arab nations from other problems. Instead, it must be a cause for action to help the Palestinian people develop the institutions that will sustain their state; to recognize Israel’s legitimacy; and to choose progress over a self-defeating focus on the past.

America’s strong bonds with Israel are well known. This bond is unbreakable. It is based upon cultural and historical ties, and the recognition that the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied.
Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed – more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction – or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews – is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.

[Garcia Bronco]

He layed the smack down in a constructive manner.

[The Lone Bolt]

For those interested, the full text:

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/images/06/04/obama.anewbeginning.pdf

[Rigs11]

CAIRO - Muslim shopkeepers, students and even radical groups such as Hamas praised President Barack Obama's address Thursday as a positive shift in U.S. attitude and tone. But Arabs and Muslims of all political stripes said they want him to turn his words into action — particularly in standing up to Israel.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31105705/

[Rohirrim]

Excellent speech. Nice to hear an American president who's chief concern isn't slinging threats around like the retarded cowboy of the last eight years.

[cutthemdown]

What a great speech I'm very proud of our President.

He laid out pretty good problems we have with Islam, called out Israel on the settlements, hit on women's rights, religious freedom and democracy and threw down the fact we won't be stopping in Afghanistan.

Also listening to Obama renounce torture made me realize that is the right way to go, he convinced me.

I'm not with the spending and the co2 tax, or really sure about healthcare, but I dug this speech and feel he made America look good.

[cutthemdown]

Excellent speech. Nice to hear an American president who's chief concern isn't slinging threats around like the retarded cowboy of the last eight years.

He made the threats a little more subtly that is for sure. He did make no bones about it though the attacks in Pakistan and Afghanistan vs radical Muslims will continue.

[Meck77]

"America’s strong bonds with Israel are well known. This bond is unbreakable. It is based upon cultural and historical ties, and the recognition that the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied.
Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed – more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction – or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews – is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve."



And that unbreakable bond and this one statement is enough for the centuries of war to continue and it will continue as long as America sticks it's ass right in the middle of their DAMN war. *sigh*

Great speech. It will render worthless in the grand scheme of things though.

Think about it. Remember the thread about how you would react if your wife and kid were kidnapped by terrorists? Each poster basically said they'd kill, dismember, or even kill themselves. Too many lives have been lost, the hate is too deep, for either side to accept any compromise. Killing is a way of life there and America will continue to be drug into it based on what Obama just told the world.

I kinda wish Obama would have just said "I'm part Muslim and Christian". That would have thrown everyone a curve ball. Booyah suckers!

[Smiling Assassin27]

Obama said this:

Finally, the Arab States must recognize that the Arab Peace Initiative was an important beginning, but not the end of their responsibilities. The Arab-Israeli conflict should no longer be used to distract the people of Arab nations from other problems. Instead, it must be a cause for action to help the Palestinian people develop the institutions that will sustain their state; to recognize Israel’s legitimacy; and to choose progress over a self-defeating focus on the past.

Bush said this:

We must stand with the Palestinian people, who have suffered for decades and earned the right to be a homeland of their own -- have a homeland of their own. I strongly support a two-state solution -- a democratic Palestine based on law and justice that will live with peace and security alongside a democrat Israel. I believe that the Palestinian people will build a thriving democracy in which entrepreneurs pursue their dreams, and families own their homes in lively communities, and young people grow up with hope in the future. Arab states, especially oil-rich nations, must seize this opportunity to invest aggressively in the Palestinian people and to move past their old resentments against Israel.


Obama said this:

America’s strong bonds with Israel are well known. This bond is unbreakable. It is based upon cultural and historical ties, and the recognition that the aspiration for a Jewish homeland is rooted in a tragic history that cannot be denied.
Around the world, the Jewish people were persecuted for centuries, and anti-Semitism in Europe culminated in an unprecedented Holocaust. Tomorrow, I will visit Buchenwald, which was part of a network of camps where Jews were enslaved, tortured, shot and gassed to death by the Third Reich. Six million Jews were killed – more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, ignorant, and hateful. Threatening Israel with destruction – or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews – is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.


Bush said this:

The alliance between our governments is unbreakable, yet the source of our friendship runs deeper than any treaty. It is grounded in the shared spirit of our people, the bonds of the Book, the ties of the soul. When William Bradford stepped off the Mayflower in 1620, he quoted the words of Jeremiah: "Come let us declare in Zion the word of God." The founders of my country saw a new promised land and bestowed upon their towns names like Bethlehem and New Canaan. And in time, many Americans became passionate advocates for a Jewish state.


Same stuff, essentially. Granted, Obama's much more restrained, less blunt, and a much better wordsmith than Bush overall. Props to him for at least acknowledging certain realities that are inherent to the Israel-Palestinian problem.

[gyldenlove]

Unfortunately no muslim country has ever pulled off democracy yet. Turkey got somewhat close, but never really got there and have now reversed the course.

Democracy in the middle east is a pipe dream as long as muslims are not willing to accept a secular approach.

[mhgaffney]

Gyldenlove evidently slept through the last 50 years. Or maybe he's too young to remember Abdul Nasser and Yasser Arafat.

The Arab world was led by secular leaders for many years -- leaders who fought their own private wars against the Muslim brotherhood.

Nasser was a populist Arab leader who wanted to develop and modernize his country.

Unfortunately, the conflict with Israel destroyed any chance of success.

Arafat is another example of a secular Arab leader who could have delivered a peace treaty with Israel IF the Israelis has been willing to end their settlement policy.

That is a fact despite Arafat's terrible image in the West -- which was only partially his own making. Sure the guy looked like he needed a bath and a hair cut --- and yes he should have stepped aside and allowed younger democratically elected Palestinian leaders to replace him -- much sooner.

Nonetheless -- Arafat wanted a political settlement with Israel and could have delivered one because he had the support of his own people.

The US is squarely to blame for the violence of recent years. Why? Because the US could have pressured Israel to face reality and make peace -- but didn't. Simple as that.

Of course, there is plenty of blame to go around. The Zionists are the princes of darkness -- even before the Holocaust in Europe they were plotting the expropriation of Arab lands in Palestine.

[Smiling Assassin27]

A decent analysis of crowd reaction:

Obama draws tough crowd in Cairo
By: Roger Simon
June 4, 2009 09:14 AM EST

You want a tough crowd? Go to Cairo and deliver a speech on Muslims, Jews, terrorism and the possibilities of Mideast peace.

While President Barack Obama received some applause and cheers during his address at Cairo University Thursday, at other times his speech fell flatter than a piece of pita bread.

It was to be expected. According to Juan Cole, a professor of modern Middle Eastern and South Asian history at the University of Michigan, Egypt was always going to be “the toughest room for the president to work” on his current foreign trip. Cole believes that the Egyptian public is “sullen” and distrustful of Obama and American intentions in the Mideast.

That showed. Speaking from a stage that looked like an American movie theater from a bygone era, complete with red velvet drapes and gold tassels, Obama hit all the right notes, but only some of them got the response he wanted.

When Obama quoted the Koran — “As the Holy Koran tells us, ‘Be conscious of God and speak always the truth’ ” — or praised Islam — “Throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality” — he got applause.

But other lines, such as when Obama vowed to protect the American people from violent attack, were met with stony silence.

“In Ankara, I made clear that America is not – and never will be – at war with Islam,” Obama said. “We will, however, relentlessly confront violent extremists who pose a grave threat to our security. (Silence from the crowd.) Because we reject the same thing that people of all faiths reject: the killing of innocent men, women, and children. (More silence.) And it is my first duty as president to protect the American people.” More silence.

And when the president talked about the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on America, he was met with only stares from the audience. “But let us be clear,” the president said, “Al Qaeda killed nearly 3,000 people on that day. The victims were innocent men, women and children from America and many other nations who had done nothing to harm anybody. And yet Al Qaeda chose to ruthlessly murder these people, claimed credit for the attack, and even now states their determination to kill on a massive scale. They have affiliates in many countries and are trying to expand their reach. These are not opinions to be debated; these are facts to be dealt with.”


Egypt is the most populous Arab country in the world (though not the most populous Muslim country, which is Indonesia), and it plays a critical role in shaping Arab policy in the region. Obama’s speech was supposed to be the rhetorical high-point of his four-nation trip to the Middle East and Europe. Yet while Obama obviously chose his words with great care, only some of them found a receptive audience.

“I have unequivocally prohibited the use of torture by the United States, and I have ordered the prison at Guantanamo Bay closed by early next year,” Obama said to applause and whistles of approval.

But he was met with silence when he said: “The sooner the extremists are isolated and unwelcome in Muslim communities, the sooner we will all be safer.”


Similarly, when Obama talked about “America’s strong bonds with Israel” and said that bond “is unbreakable” there was no applause.

Nor was there any applause when, in one of the strongest parts of his speech, Obama stood up to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, a Holocaust denier, by saying,: “Six million Jews were killed — more than the entire Jewish population of Israel today. Denying that fact is baseless, it ignorant, and it is hateful."

There was no sign of agreement from the audience as Obama went on: “Threatening Israel with destruction — or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews — is deeply wrong, and only serves to evoke in the minds of Israelis this most painful of memories while preventing the peace that the people of this region deserve.” This was met by more silence.

The crowd was far more receptive, erupting into applause and shouts, when Obama moved on to the plight of the Palestinian people and said: “So let there be no doubt: the situation for the Palestinian people is intolerable. America will not turn our backs on the legitimate Palestinian aspiration for dignity, opportunity, and a state of their own.”

“The only resolution is for the aspirations of both sides to be met through two states, where Israelis and Palestinians each live in peace and security,” Obama said to applause.

But the lines that followed were met by a vast stillness. “Palestinians must abandon violence,” Obama said. “Violence is a dead end. It is a sign of neither courage nor power to shoot rockets at sleeping children, or to blow up old women on a bus. That is not how moral authority is claimed; that is how it is surrendered.”

Obama was repeatedly interrupted by applause, however, when he said the following: “At the same time, Israelis must acknowledge that just as Israel ’s right to exist cannot be denied, neither can Palestine’s. The United States does not accept the legitimacy of continued Israeli settlements. This construction violates previous agreements and undermines efforts to achieve peace. It is time for these settlements to stop.”

Obama was also applauded when he talked about democracy and human rights, singling out women’s rights for special attention. And Obama’s restatement of the Golden Rule — “that we do unto others as we would have them do unto us” — was met warmly, but the words that followed were not. “This truth transcends nations and peoples,” Obama said, “a belief that isn’t new; that isn’t black or white or brown; that isn’t Christian, or Muslim or Jew. It’s a belief that pulsed in the cradle of civilization, and that still beats in the heart of billions. It’s a faith in other people, and it’s what brought me here today.”

That was written as an applause line, but it didn’t get any.

But when Obama quoted the Koran, the Talmud and the Bible at the end of his speech, he got applause for each.

“The people of the world can live together in peace,” Obama concluded. “We know that is God’s vision. Now, that must be our work here on Earth. Thank you. And may God’s peace be upon you.”

That got him applause, cheers and a standing ovation.

Obama’s speech was a complex one and it got a complex reaction. When it comes to speeches, you win some, you lose some, and sometimes you just move on. Obama did all of that in just one speech Thursday.

[orinjkrush]

A tough, smart speech. As a conservative independent I am impressed.

Our future depends on him.

[gyldenlove]

Gyldenlove evidently slept through the last 50 years. Or maybe he's too young to remember Abdul Nasser and Yasser Arafat.

The Arab world was led by secular leaders for many years -- leaders who fought their own private wars against the Muslim brotherhood.

Nasser was a populist Arab leader who wanted to develop and modernize his country.

Unfortunately, the conflict with Israel destroyed any chance of success.

Arafat is another example of a secular Arab leader who could have delivered a peace treaty with Israel IF the Israelis has been willing to end their settlement policy.

That is a fact despite Arafat's terrible image in the West -- which was only partially his own making. Sure the guy looked like he needed a bath and a hair cut --- and yes he should have stepped aside and allowed younger democratically elected Palestinian leaders to replace him -- much sooner.

Nonetheless -- Arafat wanted a political settlement with Israel and could have delivered one because he had the support of his own people.

The US is squarely to blame for the violence of recent years. Why? Because the US could have pressured Israel to face reality and make peace -- but didn't. Simple as that.

Of course, there is plenty of blame to go around. The Zionists are the princes of darkness -- even before the Holocaust in Europe they were plotting the expropriation of Arab lands in Palestine.

The same Arafat who spend nearly 20 years organizing and leading armed assaults on Israel and Lebanon? The same Arafat who spoke out puclicly in support of the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait? He was a real peace-maker that guy.

Nasser was a peace-maker too all-right, in charge for 14 years and started 2 wars, not quite as good as Dubya, but not too far off the mark.

A president who started two wars in 14 years and a terrorrist turned politician are your best shots at showing that there are a lot of secular progressive Arab leaders?

Oh, and Arafat never had control over PFLP, Hamas or PLF, in fact he never once during the peace negotiations succeeded in stopping terror attacks on Israel for any sustained period of time.

I am curious why you didn't bring up the Shah? he is probably the best (and only good) example of a progressive Arab leader who fought Islamic influence and brought social reforms.

Fact is that no Muslim dominated country in the middle east or eastern or northern Africa have been able to develope a true form of democracy. Most are outright despotistic, some have a limited form of representation and all have strong government run control programs to limit freedom, information and resources.

[ant1999e]

The shah is persian not arab. just saying.;)

[mhgaffney]

Gyldenlove wrote:

I am curious why you didn't bring up the Shah? he is probably the best (and only good) example of a progressive Arab leader who fought Islamic influence and brought social reforms.

This is why I pull my hair out trying to talk history with you bums.

What's the use?

[mhgaffney]

There were many good things in Obama's speech. It will be Obama versus Netanyahu. We will see if Obama can overcome Zionist resistance to peace.

There was one part of the speech that did not ring true.

Obama is not being honest about why we are in central Asia. We did not go there because of al Qaeda or bin Laden. We went to gain control over access to the oil and gas (and other resources) of the region -- to slow or prevent the emergence of a Chinese Superstate.

[AbileneBroncoFan]

Been awhile since I've logged on, but I loved the speech. It is nice to have a president who can deliver an eloquent speech to people who do not like us very much and generate a positive response. Barack is my boy, but I am measure all things with results. It's nice to know we have a legitimate agenda other than hunting down "evil-doers," but we must be successful in this agenda. However, I certainly would not bet against Obama achieving great things on these issues.

[Rohirrim]

Gyldenlove evidently slept through the last 50 years. Or maybe he's too young to remember Abdul Nasser and Yasser Arafat.

The Arab world was led by secular leaders for many years -- leaders who fought their own private wars against the Muslim brotherhood.

Nasser was a populist Arab leader who wanted to develop and modernize his country.

Unfortunately, the conflict with Israel destroyed any chance of success.

Arafat is another example of a secular Arab leader who could have delivered a peace treaty with Israel IF the Israelis has been willing to end their settlement policy.

That is a fact despite Arafat's terrible image in the West -- which was only partially his own making. Sure the guy looked like he needed a bath and a hair cut --- and yes he should have stepped aside and allowed younger democratically elected Palestinian leaders to replace him -- much sooner.

Nonetheless -- Arafat wanted a political settlement with Israel and could have delivered one because he had the support of his own people.

The US is squarely to blame for the violence of recent years. Why? Because the US could have pressured Israel to face reality and make peace -- but didn't. Simple as that.

Of course, there is plenty of blame to go around. The Zionists are the princes of darkness -- even before the Holocaust in Europe they were plotting the expropriation of Arab lands in Palestine.

Nasser was a tyrant and a Soviet pawn whose brutality spawned Al Queda. Where do you get your history, from Pravda?

[mhgaffney]

Rohirrim,

You don't know didley about it.

Here are some facts -- that (I hope) will intrude on your complacency-comfort zone.

The only reason Nasser turned to the Soviets for arms was because the US refused to supply them. At the time the Israelis were strafing Cairo -- flying over at will -- and Nasser was powerless to stop them. THis is some of the inconvenient history that boobs like you don't know because you don't care enough to do the research. You'd rather mouth platitudes and cliches.

Nasser was forced into fighting Israel. He didn't want to go there.

You also forget that in 1956 the Israelis joined with the UK and France to INVADE Egypt to overthrow Nasser's government -- kill Nasser -- and reinstall colonial rule. I am referring to the 1956 Suez War. It was NOT started by Arabs.

The only reason the aggression against Egypt didn't succeed is because US pres Eisenhower put his foot down and ordered the French, Brits and Israelis to withdraw. If Ike had not done this -- Nasser would have been just one more third world leader murdered by the West -- and Egypt would have reverted to foreign control.

But even so -- the Israelis by this time had assembled an air force. Nasser had none. And the Israelis controlled the skies over Egypt. Needless to say - this was humiliating for Nasser.

When all else failed Nasser turned to the Soviets for arms -- and of course was excoriated in the western press.

But Nasser was never a pawn of the Soviets. He was an independent third world leader who attempted to chart his own path -- without being controlled by either Washington of Moscow. During the Cold War -- this sort of neutrality was considered unacceptable by the US. Nasser paid a heavy price -- but he had no other options.

As for Nasser being a tyrant -- you are just a damn fool. You have no clue of what you speak. Nasser always had the overwhelming popular support of his people.

That's more than you can say for recent US tyrant presidents.

MHG

[BroncoBuff]

What a great speech I'm very proud of our President.
Me too, definitely.

It's not a sign of weakness to speak with your enemies and search for common ground, duh.

Cheney and his daughter had an interview with Greta Van Susteren earlier this week ... it was so so SO sad. He said Obama was "naive to think you can make nice" with these people. He just can't get it thorugh his thick skull that, 1) 99.9% of Muslims are peaceful and despise terrosist cats, and 2) Over the last 8 years we've managed to piss off even the most peaceful Muslims.

This diplomatic offensive - and especially his (correct imo) demand that the Israeli settlements stop now - is both common sense and genius, both at the same time.

Making nice doesn't mean your law enforcement agencies and military suddenly become weak. Duh.

Cheney is an evil man in my view ... evil. David Addington too (Addington might even be more evil). Just last week, a former Justice Department lawyer just told some newspaper that everything re: torture - ALL of it - went through the VP's office.

[cutthemdown]

Me too, definitely.

It's not a sign of weakness to speak with your enemies and search for common ground, duh.

Cheney and his daughter had an interview with Greta Van Susteren earlier this week ... it was so so SO sad. He said Obama was "naive to think you can make nice" with these people. He just can't get it thorugh his thick skull that, 1) 99.9% of Muslims are peaceful and despise terrosist cats, and 2) Over the last 8 years we've managed to piss off even the most peaceful Muslims.

This diplomatic offensive - and especially his (correct imo) demand that the Israeli settlements stop now - is both common sense and genius, both at the same time.

Making nice doesn't mean your law enforcement agencies and military suddenly become weak. Duh.

Cheney is an evil man in my view ... evil. David Addington too (Addington might even be more evil). Just last week, a former Justice Department lawyer just told some newspaper that everything re: torture - ALL of it - went through the VP's office.

IMO Obama didn't play nice. I always said I thought Obama would be too liberal at home with taxes and global warming taxes. But I also said I thought people were kidding themselves if they thought he would be soft like Carter.

IMO Obama want's to be a little tougher then Clinton, not as heavy handed as Bush, diplomatic in his approach highlighting the fact he is educated and smart, but at same time keeping up the fight in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

He also didn't go easy on Muslims in terms of womens right, human rights, nuclear Iran, hatred of jews etc.

If Obama can get Israel to concede some things Obama will be the most powerful influential leader the world has seen since Reagen led the USA.

I don't think Obama will try and push for Jerusalem as the Palestinian capital, or right of refugee return to Israel.

I do think he will push hard for a cease on settlement building, and probably even some land being given back in exchange for giving up Jerusalem as a capital.

I'm so into watching this unfold.

[Meck77]

1) 99.9% of Muslims are peaceful and despise terrosist cats, and 2) Over the last 8 years we've managed to piss off even the most peaceful Muslims.

I agree that the majority of Muslims are peaceful but that doesn't mean they agree with the politics of the US and our stance with Israel. That is the fundamental problem. There is always going to be that radical group that carries out the terrorism while the "peaceful" people sit and watch.

Even the most peaceful people turn to violence when pushed far enough. It's a vicious cycle of attack, revenge, attack, revenge etc etc.

The same can be said from the Israeli stand point. Most are peaceful yet there is always that radical that sets off a spark. Hell one of their own wasted Yitzhak Rabin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin for crying out loud.

[BroncoBuff]

The same can be said from the Israeli stand point. Most are peaceful yet there is always that radical that sets off a spark. Hell one of their own wasted Yitzhak Rabin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yitzhak_Rabin for crying out loud.

Good point ... even within Israel there are dangers from radical hardliners. As was true when Anwar Sadat was assassinated by Egyptian hardliners.

But I still think the Israelis have had it too easy for too long. The Palestinian people suffer endlessly, and their best land is being swallowed up by Jewish settlements. I saw a piece on 60 Minutes last fall about how the Israeli Army treats the Palestinian people ... it was sickening. When the soldiers need to rest and/or need a house on high ground to observe and do reconnaisance, they come right into any house occupied by Palestinians, without knocking, and throw them right out into the streets at gunpoint. They sleep in their beds and eat their food until they're set to move on.

This was a hidden camera report .... and it was nauseating.

[BroncoBuff]

I'm so into watching this unfold.

Yeah, gosh I love this guy ... my gf says I'm gay for Obama. She might be right ;D


Did you guys see the 2-part "Inside the White House" with Brian Williams? Pretty interesting. Rahm Emanuel constantly kicks the cameras out of wherever they are, it's pretty funny.

His brother was the inspiration for the characted Ari Gold on Entourage ...

[Kid A]

A decent analysis of crowd reaction:

The absolute silence when he was denouncing Holocaust denial was, sadly, telling.

It's a great step to have a Christian, American President getting a generally warm reception in that forum, but even among an educated audience there is obviously still a lot of bitterness/refusal to acknowledge the humanity of the other side and culpability of their own people.

I agree that the majority of Muslims in the ME are non-violent and want to live in peace, but until they accept that it is their responsibility to openly denounce the violence of extremists there are going to few solutions. They happily (and understandably) applauded every time Obama acknowledged mistreatment of Muslim populations. They will have shown their moral maturity when they can begin to acknowledge the faults of their fathers and nations.

Props to Obama for not sugarcoating our expectations/standards for all sides involved. He is very aware, I'm sure, that many minds in that region will never be changed. Instead, as he seemed to allude toward the end, the hope likely lies with younger generations breaking the cycle. We can only hope that is so.

[watermock]

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"He's going to go half way to meet me..."

Indeed, when did become our task to meet our adveraries half way?

Hitler, did in fact, meet a new leader, in France.