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TheReverend
05-27-2009, 06:58 PM
On the post that you quoted of his, I didn't see him calling anyone(meaning other posters) wrong or taboo or immoral. But continue on Kettle.

Signed,
Pot.

I'd recommend taking some 2nd grade reading classes.

"What do they get out of it? Sex with a guy (for male homosexuals). It's wrong. It's "taboo". It's a turn-on for them."

"Unlike you, I haven't thrown family values and the knowledge of what's right and wrong down the toilet. Why do you think they refer to it as "coming out of the closet"? Because they do those wrong things in the dark, and don't want people to know. Deep down their conscience I'm sure was/is bothering them (depending on how far down that path they've gone until they've completely supressed it).

Ever wonder why the world is as screwed up as it currently is, and getting worse?

Part of it is because we're tossing the correct moral standards right out the window. Flushing them down the toilet. And we only have ourselves to blame for the consequences."

So... pretty much his entire post.

GreatBronco16
05-27-2009, 07:02 PM
I'd recommend taking some 2nd grade reading classes.

"What do they get out of it? Sex with a guy (for male homosexuals). It's wrong. It's "taboo". It's a turn-on for them."

"Unlike you, I haven't thrown family values and the knowledge of what's right and wrong down the toilet. Why do you think they refer to it as "coming out of the closet"? Because they do those wrong things in the dark, and don't want people to know. Deep down their conscience I'm sure was/is bothering them (depending on how far down that path they've gone until they've completely supressed it).

Ever wonder why the world is as screwed up as it currently is, and getting worse?

Part of it is because we're tossing the correct moral standards right out the window. Flushing them down the toilet. And we only have ourselves to blame for the consequences."

So... pretty much his entire post.


I sugest you take them with me then. I didn't see him calling anyone(meaning other posters)

Unless you are gay, then what he said didn't pertain to you.

TheReverend
05-27-2009, 07:06 PM
I sugest you take them with me then.

Unless you are gay, then what he said didn't pertain to you.

Right, it doesn't pertain to me, but that's not the point... at all.

Now read this again, and try to take your dunce cap off first:

"Uhhhh... you realize that's directed at the guy who's not agreeing with people and calling them "wrong", "taboo" and "immoral", right?

Hello, pot.

Signed,
Kettle."

GreatBronco16
05-27-2009, 07:20 PM
Right, it doesn't pertain to me, but that's not the point... at all.

Now read this again, and try to take your dunce cap off first:

"Uhhhh... you realize that's directed at the guy who's not agreeing with people and calling them "wrong", "taboo" and "immoral", right?

Hello, pot.

Signed,
Kettle."

LOL

Ok, so you know it wasn't directed to you but yet you felt the need to defend the gay people from his hatefull words to them by saying he is brainwashed by a cult leader. I'm sure the gay community will rest easy tonight know that you got their back.

TheReverend
05-27-2009, 07:26 PM
LOL

Ok, so you know it wasn't directed to you but yet you felt the need to defend the gay people from his hatefull words to them by saying he is brainwashed by a cult leader. I'm sure the gay community will rest easy tonight know that you got their back.

I could care less. Persecution is persecution, no matter how you want to justify it, and that is certainly a LEARNED outlook. However he got those POV's is certainly more immoral than 2 same sex people that want to be together.

UberBroncoMan
05-27-2009, 07:52 PM
No.

Look, marriage is the religious part of a civil union. Civil unions are required for two people to share their lives together and receive the tax breaks. Marriage is the religious union of a man and a woman by ALL religions.

Gays may have civil unions. They are not being discriminated against by the governmental law. Governement however, has no right to force religion to change thousands of years of their doctrine. Whether you agree with it or not. This is the backside of separation of church and state. No government should be able to dictate what religions do with their rituals. Marriage is a religious ritual that harms no one so falls under the freedom of religion act.

If the CHURCH decides that they want to allow marriage, then gays can, and will get married. Until that day, they can have a civil union and receive all the legal benefits that a hetero sexual couple receives, they just do not get the blessing of God.

How can the government LEGALLY force churches to marry gays?

Ding Ding. This is all about gay people wanting to bind their relationship religiously through "marriage" which is unanimously and historically between a MAN AND A WOMAN.

Gays wanting to have "marriage" is just them trying to stir the pot and crush the religious faith of others. Religion has never been a supporter of same sex marriages so some people want to stir the pot.

I don't give a **** if gays/lesbians get civil union's and share the same rights a marriage gives.

... and this comes from someone who isn't that religious at all.

Marriage = man and woman... gays and lesbos can get a civil union and get all the tax breaks etc that they want for all I care.

GreatBronco16
05-27-2009, 08:05 PM
Ding Ding. This is all about gay people wanting to bind their relationship religiously through "marriage" which is unanimously and historically between a MAN AND A WOMAN.

Gays wanting to have "marriage" is just them trying to stir the pot and crush the religious faith of others. Religion has never been a supporter of same sex marriages so some people want to stir the pot.

I don't give a **** if gays/lesbians get civil union's and share the same rights a marriage gives.

... and this comes from someone who isn't that religious at all.

Marriage = man and woman... gays and lesbos can get a civil union and get all the tax breaks etc that they want for all I care.

REP!!

cutthemdown
05-27-2009, 08:06 PM
I'm sorry that you can't see past your own personal bias and prejudice on this topic.

I realize that there is a large difference between the two issues, but there are also similarities. If you open your mind you'll see them.

Before slavery was ended many people thought African Americans were lower forms of life who didn't deserve the freedoms of the white men and so in their minds slavery was okay.

Today, many people feel that homosexuality is immoral and/or unnatural and therefore homosexuals can't be married.

In both cases human beings were denied basic rights because of the beliefs of other people. Whites were allowed to be free, blacks weren't. Today, heterosexuals are allowed to marry, homosexuals are not.


Right but you could also then say pedophiles are looked down on because they don't live up to western morals. Let's face it though the Greeks, Romans, and much of the world we live in doesn't wait until 18. That's a number we came up with based on our countries beliefs and morals. How much do you want to throw out?

Those 2 issues closer then slavery which was a much different issue.

TheReverend
05-27-2009, 08:09 PM
Gays wanting to have "marriage" is just them trying to stir the pot and crush the religious faith of others. Religion has never been a supporter of same sex marriages so some people want to stir the pot.

http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/30/Not_sure_if_serious.jpg

Spider
05-27-2009, 08:10 PM
Oh Noes the flag burning Commie Homos are out to steal Marriage , our sacred marriage , so sacred in fact Most of us do it more then once .........whatever shall we do ?

TheReverend
05-27-2009, 08:10 PM
Right but you could also then say pedophiles are looked down on because they don't live up to western morals. Let's face it though the Greeks, Romans, and much of the world we live in doesn't wait until 18. That's a number we came up with based on our countries beliefs and morals. How much do you want to throw out?

Those 2 issues closer then slavery which was a much different issue.

Right... but that doesn't infringe upon certain people... that sets a standard that everyone has to follow...

cutthemdown
05-27-2009, 08:13 PM
Oh Noes the flag burning Commie Homos are out to steal Marriage , our sacred marriage , so sacred in fact Most of us do it more then once .........whatever shall we do ?

That is a good point. If people followed the bible life would be boring.

cutthemdown
05-27-2009, 08:16 PM
Right... but that doesn't infringe upon certain people... that sets a standard that everyone has to follow...

I agree but then you could easily say marriage is a union between people, of any sex, race, etc regardless of what the bible or religious people think is marriage.

But then IMO you would have to allow people to have 2 wives. I mean those people now discriminated against. You make a man or women choose only one. Whose to say it should only be one? IMO it's taken from the bible. So some of it people want to keep, some throw out, seems like a hard thing to decide, which is why i think the courts leery of it.

Spider
05-27-2009, 08:18 PM
That is a good point. If people followed the bible life would be boring.

;D My point is , people make marriage what it is , drive through divorce place in Vegas for crying out loud , or you can get married by a Elvis impersonator , any damage to marriage has already been done , in fact I will say mail order brides , or people marrying for citizenship is far more damaging then a couple of rump rangers entering the happy hunting grounds ............

TheReverend
05-27-2009, 08:20 PM
I agree but then you could easily say marriage is a union between people, of any sex, race, etc regardless of what the bible or religious people think is marriage.

But then IMO you would have to allow people to have 2 wives. I mean those people now discriminated against. You make a man or women choose only one. Whose to say it should only be one? IMO it's taken from the bible. So some of it people want to keep, some throw out, seems like a hard thing to decide, which is why i think the courts leery of it.

Agreed.

IMO, benefits shouldn't be given at all. Throw the whole thing out.

So what? You're married. Big ****ing deal. Get back to work.

cutthemdown
05-27-2009, 08:20 PM
The good news for gays is its way way way better for them then at any time in the USA history

I'm not saying they should be done, they can fight for whatever they still think they deserve. I'm just saying the country has become more tolerant.

Not sure why Gays want to have the official church type marriage available, and why civil unions aren't enough for them, but I can't really understand I have no idea what they are feeling.

I would never get married lol. About 7-10 end up regretting it. I serve papers for divorces all the time.

cutthemdown
05-27-2009, 08:22 PM
Right... but that doesn't infringe upon certain people... that sets a standard that everyone has to follow...

Well the standard is go for the opposite sex. They want everyone to follow that standard. Not sure where you were going with that.

cutthemdown
05-27-2009, 08:24 PM
Gay marriage activists should focus on people who either didn't vote, or did vote for prop 8, who aren't religious. You get them and you can win.

They should appeal to the side that is sick of religious people judging people, saying you should live a certain way.

They need some more creative strategies, not just the shout its unfair from the streets wearing makeup and dressing in drag.

TheReverend
05-27-2009, 08:31 PM
The good news for gays is its way way way better for them then at any time in the USA history

I'm not saying they should be done, they can fight for whatever they still think they deserve. I'm just saying the country has become more tolerant.

Not sure why Gays want to have the official church type marriage available, and why civil unions aren't enough for them, but I can't really understand I have no idea what they are feeling.

I would never get married lol. About 7-10 end up regretting it. I serve papers for divorces all the time.

Because civil unions only provide state benefits and aren't recognized by federal government so they don't involve federal benefits.

If the solution was to change federal law to give the same benefits as marriage, then this convo becomes moot.

TheReverend
05-27-2009, 08:32 PM
Well the standard is go for the opposite sex. They want everyone to follow that standard. Not sure where you were going with that.

Did you quote the wrong post...?

houghtam
05-27-2009, 09:05 PM
The argument was made that gays should not be allowed to marry because they are unable to propogate the species.

Are we then to refuse/nullify marriage for someone that is unable to have children? What about married couples who refuse to have children? Are we now to require married couples to have children just because they can?

But by all means, keep trying to put down the rights of the minorities, it's worked so well in the past. Eventually it will catch up with you.

People used religion to justify slavery, denying women and minorities the right to vote, and any number of other basic rights. They'll continue to do so until the tide of social change washes over them like it did every futile generational attempt before.

Besides...separation of church and state...? I was married in the Catholic Church, but STILL had to have my marriage recognized by the state of Ohio. Religion doesn't (and shouldn't) mean jack in regard to marriage. If someone wants to reject marriage for religious reasons, they better be ready to reject marriages of different religions for religious reasons, as well, not just homosexual couples.

mr007
05-27-2009, 09:53 PM
Did you miss the part again where they're horny and perverted? What do you not get about that?

What do they get out of it? Sex with a guy (for male homosexuals). It's wrong. It's "taboo". It's a turn-on for them.

Stop trying to put yourself into their shoes. You don't have their paradigm. You didn't grow up like them, make their choices, have their environment, and didn't slowly keep going down the wrong path until you actually thought it was "ok" to do these perverted acts or brushed your conscience away.

And some people will steal just to steal, lie just to lie, etc. Even murder. They get a charge out of it. They make that choice. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? And if you want to continue to have this discussion, don't call me ignorant because I disagree with you. It makes you look like the ignorant person, not me.

Unlike you, I haven't thrown family values and the knowledge of what's right and wrong down the toilet. Why do you think they refer to it as "coming out of the closet"? Because they do those wrong things in the dark, and don't want people to know. Deep down their conscience I'm sure was/is bothering them (depending on how far down that path they've gone until they've completely supressed it).

Ever wonder why the world is as screwed up as it currently is, and getting worse?

Part of it is because we're tossing the correct moral standards right out the window. Flushing them down the toilet. And we only have ourselves to blame for the consequences.

I'm glad I didn't grow up in your environment, have your experiences, or be taught in the manner you were to have such a ridiculous outlook.

How did you actually get all these points of view? They were definitely not inherited at birth, ... is your Dad gay?? Maybe your brother??

If you want to be religious about it, nowhere in the 10 commandments does it say "thou shalt not be gay." Murdering, lying, cheating, and stealing are all basic moral values that most adhere to. Comparing an act of someone purposely breaking traditional moral values and being a homosexual is utter stupidity.

The world is as screwed up as it is and getting worse due to religion and religious beliefs in general, which are also pretty ridiculous, but to each their own. Homosexuality has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the the world being "screwed up." Unreal.

Archer81
05-27-2009, 11:43 PM
Did you miss the part again where they're horny and perverted? What do you not get about that?

What do they get out of it? Sex with a guy (for male homosexuals). It's wrong. It's "taboo". It's a turn-on for them.

Stop trying to put yourself into their shoes. You don't have their paradigm. You didn't grow up like them, make their choices, have their environment, and didn't slowly keep going down the wrong path until you actually thought it was "ok" to do these perverted acts or brushed your conscience away.

And some people will steal just to steal, lie just to lie, etc. Even murder. They get a charge out of it. They make that choice. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? And if you want to continue to have this discussion, don't call me ignorant because I disagree with you. It makes you look like the ignorant person, not me.

Unlike you, I haven't thrown family values and the knowledge of what's right and wrong down the toilet. Why do you think they refer to it as "coming out of the closet"? Because they do those wrong things in the dark, and don't want people to know. Deep down their conscience I'm sure was/is bothering them (depending on how far down that path they've gone until they've completely supressed it).

Ever wonder why the world is as screwed up as it currently is, and getting worse?

Part of it is because we're tossing the correct moral standards right out the window. Flushing them down the toilet. And we only have ourselves to blame for the consequences.


:saywhat:

I really hope you never have a kid who is gay.

:Broncos:

DHallblows
05-27-2009, 11:58 PM
:saywhat:

I really hope you never have a kid who is gay.

:Broncos:

I personally hope he does :thumbsup:

OABB
05-28-2009, 12:15 AM
thou doth protest too much.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 01:04 AM
I agree but then you could easily say marriage is a union between people, of any sex, race, etc regardless of what the bible or religious people think is marriage.

But then IMO you would have to allow people to have 2 wives. I mean those people now discriminated against. You make a man or women choose only one. Whose to say it should only be one? IMO it's taken from the bible. So some of it people want to keep, some throw out, seems like a hard thing to decide, which is why i think the courts leery of it.

If the bible-thumpers really wanted to have the traditional marriage institution, they would support polygamy. They can run their mouths all day about traditional marriage, the fact is they're bigots.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 01:06 AM
Did you miss the part again where they're horny and perverted? What do you not get about that?

What do they get out of it? Sex with a guy (for male homosexuals). It's wrong. It's "taboo". It's a turn-on for them.

Stop trying to put yourself into their shoes. You don't have their paradigm. You didn't grow up like them, make their choices, have their environment, and didn't slowly keep going down the wrong path until you actually thought it was "ok" to do these perverted acts or brushed your conscience away.

And some people will steal just to steal, lie just to lie, etc. Even murder. They get a charge out of it. They make that choice. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend? And if you want to continue to have this discussion, don't call me ignorant because I disagree with you. It makes you look like the ignorant person, not me.

Unlike you, I haven't thrown family values and the knowledge of what's right and wrong down the toilet. Why do you think they refer to it as "coming out of the closet"? Because they do those wrong things in the dark, and don't want people to know. Deep down their conscience I'm sure was/is bothering them (depending on how far down that path they've gone until they've completely supressed it).

Ever wonder why the world is as screwed up as it currently is, and getting worse?

Part of it is because we're tossing the correct moral standards right out the window. Flushing them down the toilet. And we only have ourselves to blame for the consequences.

You are a sad little man.

BroncoBuff
05-28-2009, 01:26 AM
You are a sad little man.

Yeah, ain't that the truth.

GreatBronco16
05-28-2009, 03:19 AM
:saywhat:

I really hope you never have a kid who is gay.

:Broncos:

He won't. Kids are not born gay or straight. People choose weather they want to be gay or straight.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 03:36 AM
I'm glad I didn't grow up in your environment, have your experiences, or be taught in the manner you were to have such a ridiculous outlook.

How did you actually get all these points of view? They were definitely not inherited at birth, ... is your Dad gay?? Maybe your brother??

If you want to be religious about it, nowhere in the 10 commandments does it say "thou shalt not be gay." Murdering, lying, cheating, and stealing are all basic moral values that most adhere to. Comparing an act of someone purposely breaking traditional moral values and being a homosexual is utter stupidity.

The world is as screwed up as it is and getting worse due to religion and religious beliefs in general, which are also pretty ridiculous, but to each their own. Homosexuality has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the the world being "screwed up." Unreal.

What, because I stand up for the right thing some of you don't like it? Too bad!

I don't want this to turn into a Bible debate, but you sound like some of those other people who claim it's ok to be homosexual and the Bible is silent on this or that it's ok. And like them, you're dead wrong.

My point is, where do you draw the line on ethics? Face it, our laws are based on the original values put forth in the Bible.

What's next? As mentioned earlier, is being a pedophile now no longer wrong if the majority of this sick world supports it? So 99% of the people say being a pedophile is ok and enact a proposition and now think it's ok to do this. Does that make it right?

You can't allow someone who willfully does the wrong thing (unless they're trying to change and asking for help) to do so publicly or enact laws saying what they do is ok. By supporting this (or even simply not taking a side), you're agreeing that it's not wrong.

Whether you agree with it or not, allowing it to occur is the same thing as not doing anything when your friend cheats on his wife or steals something from a store. Omission of action. It's all doing the wrong thing. And don't tell me your conscience doesn't tell you that, whether or not you want to supress it.

I really don't want this to turn into a Bible debate, let's stick to the point that if they want the same tax breaks, create a proposition that supports that. Don't force a twisted re-definition of marriage on all of us.

But just an FYI, the Bible does say it's a sin and wrong. So next time any church member or leader tells you it's ok to be homosexual (willfully, not wanting to change), tell them to stop listening to whomever is telling them this and actually try reading the Bible for themselves:

Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both young and old,
all the people from every quarter;
Gen 19:5 and they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men that came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto
us, that we may know them.
Gen 19:6 And Lot went out unto them to the door, and shut the door after him.
Gen 19:7 And he said, I pray you, my brethren, do not so wickedly.

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Rom 1:26 Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their
sex by unnatural acts.
Rom 1:27 In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do
shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing.

1Co 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor
idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord
Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

So back on topic, I don't hate homosexuals, I just don't agree with what they do. And you don't shun them, you try to help them. Another problem no one is addressing here is, do you honestly think the gay agenda will be satisfied just having civil unions?

Ask them if they'd be willing to give up dropping the fight against marriage if they could have the exact same benefits as married couples. The majority would say NO.

Prodigal19
05-28-2009, 03:49 AM
He won't. Kids are not born gay or straight. People choose weather they want to be gay or straight.

your right, all the gays are lying. They actually "chose" to be gay because they love being hated on. LOL

BroncoBuff
05-28-2009, 03:52 AM
People choose weather they want to be gay or straight.

Then I got ripped off, because I had no choice. On that I am certain.

GreatBronco16
05-28-2009, 05:19 AM
Then I got ripped off, because I had no choice. On that I am certain.

That's right you didn't have a choice. Someone put a gun to your head and said you were going to be with male or female. You didn't choose one over the other. You're right.


BTW, show me the 100% evidence where humans are born one way or the other.

BroncoBuff
05-28-2009, 05:41 AM
BTW, show me the 100% evidence where humans are born one way or the other.
You're so foolish. So angry and so foolish. There is no such evidence known.

BTW, show me the 100% evidence where humans choose one way or the other.


You lowbows are so easy. So angry and so easy.

BroncoBuff
05-28-2009, 05:46 AM
I don't want this to turn into a Bible debate.
Oh yes you do.


You sound like some of those other people who claim it's ok to be homosexual and the Bible is silent on this or that it's ok.
Knothead, nobody said that. Everybody and their brother knows that Leviticus verse, you're not "springing" something on us that will "blow our minds" or anything. The question is whether we can take all that Old Testament stuff at face value. And the answer is almost certainly no ... for just one example: do you keep kosher?


Lemme see what you know about the Bible:

Was Jesus for or against rich people?
Was Jesus for or against the death penalty?

Orange_Beard
05-28-2009, 06:39 AM
You're so foolish. So angry and so foolish. There is no such evidence known.

BTW, show me the 100% evidence where humans choose one way or the other.


You lowbows are so easy. So angry and so easy.

Show me 100% proof that the bible is worth the paper that it is written on. Seems like a bunch of who-ha to me.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 06:53 AM
It starts to become a quagmire. At some point the state has to admit that its values are based on Judeo-Christian ethics. Isn't that what our values of right and wrong are based on anyway?

.

It's values??? Some of us believe Christian beliefs are twisted and outdated!

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 06:58 AM
Did you miss the part again where they're horny and perverted? What do you not get about that?



Ever wonder why the world is as screwed up as it currently is, and getting worse?

Part of it is because we're tossing the correct moral standards right out the window. Flushing them down the toilet. And we only have ourselves to blame for the consequences.


Correct moral standards??? WTF. Are these YOUR CORRECT STANDARDS?
If they are, who the **** are you to impose these on someone else?

Just more of the religious BS being shoved down someones throat.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 07:01 AM
LOL

Ok, so you know it wasn't directed to you but yet you felt the need to defend the gay people from his hatefull words to them by saying he is brainwashed by a cult leader. I'm sure the gay community will rest easy tonight know that you got their back.
No dillwad, he is stating that this "DUDE" wants to shove his moral standards down everyones' throat, because his "cult/church" believes and has infused his warped mind with the notion that anyone who doesn't subscribe to their moral beliefs is twisted.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 07:03 AM
Right but you could also then say pedophiles are looked down on because they don't live up to western morals. Let's face it though the Greeks, Romans, and much of the world we live in doesn't wait until 18. That's a number we came up with based on our countries beliefs and morals. How much do you want to throw out?

Those 2 issues closer then slavery which was a much different issue.


Pedophelia does not involve 2 consenting adults. BIG F_ING DIFFERENCE!

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 07:11 AM
What, because I stand up for the right thing some of you don't like it? Too bad!

I don't want this to turn into a Bible debate, but you sound like some of those other people who claim it's ok to be homosexual and the Bible is silent on this or that it's ok. And like them, you're dead wrong.

What's next? As mentioned earlier, is being a pedophile now no longer wrong if the majority of this sick world supports it? So 99% of the people say being a pedophile is ok and enact a proposition and now think it's ok to do this. Does that make it right?

You can't allow someone who willfully does the wrong thing (unless they're trying to change and asking for help) to do so publicly or enact laws saying what they do is ok. By supporting this (or even simply not taking a side), you're agreeing that it's not wrong.



So back on topic, I don't hate homosexuals, I just don't agree with what they do. And you don't shun them, you try to help them.

.


The above type attitude is what is turning people away from the church.

Wackos who have been brainwashed into believing that they are better human beings than those who don't subscribe to their twisted and judgemental views.

broncofan7
05-28-2009, 07:17 AM
Who cares if Gays want to get married--honestly--I could care less what people do in their bedrooms as long as they are not abusing children or animals. I find the debate a REAL waste of time--how will others be negatively affected by Gays being able to get married? There is no tangible effect--Oh, someone's chruch fed morality got hurt --too bad. God or some higher power exists for sure, but YOUR RELIGION is culturally fabricated--don't believe me--look around the world--why are we not all worshipping the same gods the same way with the same church hierarchy---simplistic but oh so true---take a deep breath--just because jim & Bob take it up the ass doesn't mean that you are going to be ****ed too.

broncofan7
05-28-2009, 07:29 AM
Rom 1:27 In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do
shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing


So is bi-sexuality only half as sinful or is it not a sin at all? :yayaya:

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 07:35 AM
Show me 100% proof that the bible is worth the paper that it is written on. Seems like a bunch of who-ha to me.

To those televangelists it's worth millions!:spit:

Prodigal19
05-28-2009, 07:37 AM
That's right you didn't have a choice. Someone put a gun to your head and said you were going to be with male or female. You didn't choose one over the other. You're right.


BTW, show me the 100% evidence where humans are born one way or the other.

Nobody is saying that it is a certain thing that you are born one way or another. It could also be influenced by environmental factors and situations growing up. Either way, you do not choose what sex is appealing to you just as you don't choose whether or not chocolate is tasty. It simply is what it is.

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 07:43 AM
He won't. Kids are not born gay or straight. People choose weather they want to be gay or straight.

When did you choose to be straight?

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 07:45 AM
What, because I stand up for the right thing some of you don't like it? Too bad!

I don't want this to turn into a Bible debate, but you sound like some of those other people who claim it's ok to be homosexual and the Bible is silent on this or that it's ok. And like them, you're dead wrong.

My point is, where do you draw the line on ethics? Face it, our laws are based on the original values put forth in the Bible.

What's next? As mentioned earlier, is being a pedophile now no longer wrong if the majority of this sick world supports it? So 99% of the people say being a pedophile is ok and enact a proposition and now think it's ok to do this. Does that make it right?

You can't allow someone who willfully does the wrong thing (unless they're trying to change and asking for help) to do so publicly or enact laws saying what they do is ok. By supporting this (or even simply not taking a side), you're agreeing that it's not wrong.

Whether you agree with it or not, allowing it to occur is the same thing as not doing anything when your friend cheats on his wife or steals something from a store. Omission of action. It's all doing the wrong thing. And don't tell me your conscience doesn't tell you that, whether or not you want to supress it.

I really don't want this to turn into a Bible debate, let's stick to the point that if they want the same tax breaks, create a proposition that supports that. Don't force a twisted re-definition of marriage on all of us.

But just an FYI, the Bible does say it's a sin and wrong. So next time any church member or leader tells you it's ok to be homosexual (willfully, not wanting to change), tell them to stop listening to whomever is telling them this and actually try reading the Bible for themselves:

Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both young and old,
all the people from every quarter;
Gen 19:5 and they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men that came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto
us, that we may know them.
Gen 19:6 And Lot went out unto them to the door, and shut the door after him.
Gen 19:7 And he said, I pray you, my brethren, do not so wickedly.

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Rom 1:26 Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their
sex by unnatural acts.
Rom 1:27 In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do
shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing.

1Co 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor
idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord
Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

So back on topic, I don't hate homosexuals, I just don't agree with what they do. And you don't shun them, you try to help them. Another problem no one is addressing here is, do you honestly think the gay agenda will be satisfied just having civil unions?

Ask them if they'd be willing to give up dropping the fight against marriage if they could have the exact same benefits as married couples. The majority would say NO.

I don't feel like tearing you apart, like I should, but I will say this: telling people that their morals are flat out wrong, isn't the best way to make friends.

JJG
05-28-2009, 07:48 AM
It's values??? Some of us believe Christian beliefs are twisted and outdated!

So only YOUR values count? got it...

BroncoBuff
05-28-2009, 07:50 AM
So only YOUR values count? got it...

There's a big difference: our values PERMIT, your values RESTRICT.

LIBERTY is about PERMITTING.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 07:51 AM
Oh yes you do.



Knothead, nobody said that. Everybody and their brother knows that Leviticus verse, you're not "springing" something on us that will "blow our minds" or anything. The question is whether we can take all that Old Testament stuff at face value. And the answer is almost certainly no ... for just one example: do you keep kosher?


Lemme see what you know about the Bible:

Was Jesus for or against rich people?
Was Jesus for or against the death penalty?

I'll take this offline with a PM so we don't spam the board.

BroncoBuff
05-28-2009, 07:51 AM
People choose weather they want to be gay or straight.People choose weather?

I don't think so.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 07:54 AM
Pedophelia does not involve 2 consenting adults. BIG F_ING DIFFERENCE!

You're not getting the point. Pedophiles are a "minority", and what if some gay kid likes what he's doing to them? That's consensual isn't it? See how far you can go out of bounds once you keep lowering your moral standards?

And what about incest? Or, let's take it to the next level. Say you have a cat. You love your cat. Your cat loves you. So, you decide you want to marry, and then have sex with...your cat. These 2 groups are "minorities" too, right? So what about them? See what I'm saying?

JJG
05-28-2009, 07:58 AM
Correct moral standards??? WTF. Are these YOUR CORRECT STANDARDS?
If they are, who the **** are you to impose these on someone else?

Just more of the religious BS being shoved down someones throat.

Irony...

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 07:59 AM
So only YOUR values count? got it...

No, dumbass. I think everyone has a right to their own values, as long as they do not attempt to shove their values down the throat of someone who beliefs do not mirror theirs.

The Church and their followers constantly attempt to manipulate goverment to impose their morals upon the whole damn country.

**** them!

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 08:00 AM
I don't feel like tearing you apart, like I should, but I will say this: telling people that their morals are flat out wrong, isn't the best way to make friends.

I'm not telling people what they don't already know deep down in their hearts. I have to tell it like it is.

At the end of time I don't want to be standing there with everyone else and being asked the question, "why did you keep silent?" or "why didn't you try to help so-and-so?"

At least I was one voice for the truth. The surest sign that you're in the wrong camp is if you follow what the rest of the world is doing. Friendship with the world is not good.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 08:02 AM
No, dumbass. I think everyone has a right to their own values, as long as they do not attempt to shove their values down the throat of someone who beliefs do not mirror theirs.

The Church and their followers constantly attempt to manipulate goverment to impose their morals upon the whole damn country.

**** them!

Man you are angry! Did you accidentally put gravel in your Raisin Bran this morning? Calm down man, it's just a discussion...

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 08:03 AM
You're not getting the point. Pedophiles are a "minority", and what if some gay kid likes what he's doing to them? That's consensual isn't it? See how far you can go out of bounds once you keep lowering your moral standards?

And what about incest? Or, let's take it to the next level. Say you have a cat. You love your cat. Your cat loves you. So, you decide you want to marry, and then have sex with...your cat. These 2 groups are "minorities" too, right? So what about them? See what I'm saying?


I'm not getting the point?

WTF are you yammering about. I said there is a difference. If two ADULTS want to do something they both enjoy, who the **** gave someone else the authority to tell them they can't? YOUR Bible? It may not be their Bible.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 08:05 AM
Man you are angry! Did you accidentally put gravel in your Raisin Bran this morning? Calm down man, it's just a discussion...

I don't do Raisin Bran, and don't tell me to calm down while peddling the idiodic notions of your church.

Maybe you should be more concerned with those who proclaim to be religious while abusing children!

broncofan7
05-28-2009, 08:06 AM
I'm not telling people what they don't already know deep down in their hearts. I have to tell it like it is.

At the end of time I don't want to be standing there with everyone else and being asked the question, "why did you keep silent?" or "why didn't you try to help so-and-so?"

At least I was one voice for the truth. The surest sign that you're in the wrong camp is if you follow what the rest of the world is doing. Friendship with the world is not good.

At the end of time, you are going to be terribly disappointed ......

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 08:06 AM
I'm not telling people what they don't already know deep down in their hearts. I have to tell it like it is.

At the end of time I don't want to be standing there with everyone else and being asked the question, "why did you keep silent?" or "why didn't you try to help so-and-so?"

At least I was one voice for the truth. .

The arrogance of religion shows it's true face once again.

JJG
05-28-2009, 08:12 AM
There's a big difference: our values PERMIT, your values RESTRICT.

LIBERTY is about PERMITTING.

= my values are more right then yours. You've just justified it based on your reasoning, however right or wrong it is.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 08:13 AM
Or, let's take it to the next level. Say you have a cat. You love your cat. Your cat loves you. So, you decide you want to marry, and then have sex with...your cat. These 2 groups are "minorities" too, right? So what about them? See what I'm saying?

GWB, is that you in disguise? :rofl:

....and I thought no one could be that ****ing stupid!

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 08:14 AM
At the end of time, you are going to be terribly disappointed ......

I hope for your sake that you're right, because then we both just die and that's it.

But if I'm right, you're in serious trouble...

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 08:15 AM
I'll take this offline with a PM so we don't spam the board.

You've already spammed the board with your religious tripe, while stating that you didn't want to do that.:rofl:

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 08:15 AM
GWB, is that you in disguise? :rofl:

....and I thought no one could be that ****ing stupid!

Seriously man, if you're just going to be all bitter and call people names, I'm just going to ignore you.

What are you, 12? Can't you discuss something like a normal person?

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 08:16 AM
I hope for your sake that you're right, because then we both just die and that's it.

But if I'm right, you're in serious trouble...


Here's a little clue. When a coffin is dug up, there a body/ skeleton inside.

Worm food!

Irish Stout
05-28-2009, 08:19 AM
What I don't understand (and I am partly serious and partly imputing my good ol' natured idiotism here) is why there is not a Church of Gay?!?! I mean, if there was a well founded religious movement in the gay community in which they reasoned that marriage was a sacriment they were entitled to through this religion, then they would be much more likely to have first amendment protections from the rest of the decisions of the populace. Then these marriages via their religion would be socially recognized (but, not necessarily accepted).

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 08:19 AM
Seriously man, if you're just going to be all bitter and call people names, I'm just going to ignore you.

What are you, 12? Can't you discuss something like a normal person?

Discuss something seriously with you???

Marry a cat?
Condone incest?
Condone pedophelia (that's a catholic value, not mine)


You call that normal.

BTW: you call Gays and lesbians all kinds of "names".

Asshole!

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 08:21 AM
Discuss something seriously with you???

Marry a cat?
Condone incest?
Condone pedophelia (that's a catholic value, not mine)


You call that normal.

BTW: you call Gays and lesbians all kinds of "names".

a-hole!

That's it, call people names when you can't argue with them.

And I did not call gays and lesbians any "names". You don't agree that their ACTIONS are perverted? Let's take this offline via PM so we don't spam the board.

Irish Stout
05-28-2009, 08:26 AM
For those who claim gayness is a choice, can I ask if you have any explanation as to why someone would want to chose being gay? People who make this claim have either made this choice themselves or don't have any basis for it.

I personally did not choose to be straight. It simply was not an option. I never had a moment where I was like "hmmmm.... should I decide to like dick today or continue on my quest of vagina?" I just think about big bouncing boobies 460 times a day - WITHOUT CHOOSING TO. If I had it my way, I would choose to not think about sex with women so often, I would be more productive. But I had no choice in this.

So those who say its a choice, either have had to look at the two options and picked one, or they are like me, but just like to make statements they cannot base on fact.

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 08:31 AM
I'm not telling people what they don't already know deep down in their hearts. I have to tell it like it is.

At the end of time I don't want to be standing there with everyone else and being asked the question, "why did you keep silent?" or "why didn't you try to help so-and-so?"

At least I was one voice for the truth. The surest sign that you're in the wrong camp is if you follow what the rest of the world is doing. Friendship with the world is not good.


Sing it brother! There's too many goddamn sinners on this board. **** 'em. I can't wait until the great holy pastamaker in the sky comes down and blesses us true believers with full bowls of spaghetti (and meatballs too) while casting all these butt ****ers into the eternal flames of hell.

Beantown Bronco
05-28-2009, 08:32 AM
I'm still trying to figure out why folks are even equating marriage with the Catholic Church to begin with. Most marriages in this country take place outside of a Church by non-priests.

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 08:32 AM
That's it, call people names when you can't argue with them.

And I did not call gays and lesbians any "names". You don't agree that their ACTIONS are perverted? Let's take this offline via PM so we don't spam the board.

So now you want to "whisper" with TGN? Better take a wide stance there pardner. I think he's into the "rough" trade.

Irish Stout
05-28-2009, 08:33 AM
And I did not call gays and lesbians any "names". You don't agree that their ACTIONS are perverted? Let's take this offline via PM so we don't spam the board.

I don't like gay and lesbian ACTIONS - unless the lesbians are hot and I'm watching. But, how can I say they are any more perverted that what any other two consenting adults might engage in behind closed doors? Really? Why should I care what they do if they are of legal age and consent to each others wishes?

Your arguments about cats and pedophiles takes out the fact that you have people of age who consent to it.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 08:33 AM
Alright, alright, I get it! I'll stop preaching lol!

Seriously though if anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me. I've already PM'd a couple of you...now back to the milk poll... ;)

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 08:36 AM
What I don't understand (and I am partly serious and partly imputing my good ol' natured idiotism here) is why there is not a Church of Gay?!?! I mean, if there was a well founded religious movement in the gay community in which they reasoned that marriage was a sacriment they were entitled to through this religion, then they would be much more likely to have first amendment protections from the rest of the decisions of the populace. Then these marriages via their religion would be socially recognized (but, not necessarily accepted).


Wouldn't be any less acceptable than the other religions. And they could be elligible for tax exemptions.ROFL!

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 08:36 AM
Alright, alright, I get it! I'll stop preaching lol!

Seriously though if anyone has any questions, feel free to PM me. I've already PM'd a couple of you...now back to the milk poll... ;)

That's what the priests say when they want to get the altar boys behind the sacristy.

broncofan7
05-28-2009, 08:38 AM
I hope for your sake that you're right, because then we both just die and that's it.

But if I'm right, you're in serious trouble...

Hey--I wrote that YOU are going to be terribly disappointed-I am going to get 101 Megan Fox looking virgins, a Broncos SB 32-33 Back2Back DVD and an endless supply of sour patch kids & RC cola when I die.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 08:39 AM
Sing it brother! There's too many goddamn sinners on this board. **** 'em. I can't wait until the great holy pastamaker in the sky comes down and blesses us true believers with full bowls of spaghetti (and meatballs too) while casting all these butt ****ers into the eternal flames of hell.


Damnit, I going to miss out on Spaghetti AND meatballs.:spit:

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 08:39 AM
What I don't understand (and I am partly serious and partly imputing my good ol' natured idiotism here) is why there is not a Church of Gay?!?! I mean, if there was a well founded religious movement in the gay community in which they reasoned that marriage was a sacriment they were entitled to through this religion, then they would be much more likely to have first amendment protections from the rest of the decisions of the populace. Then these marriages via their religion would be socially recognized (but, not necessarily accepted).

That is actually a brilliant idea. I could just see that case coming before the SCOTUS. Scalia's head would spin off. Ha!

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 08:44 AM
That's it, call people names when you can't argue with them.

And I did not call gays and lesbians any "names". You don't agree that their ACTIONS are perverted? Let's take this offline via PM so we don't spam the board.


****, some of my "actions" could be considered "perverted" by someone who lives a sheltered life, but I could care less what others think. If they don't like it they can proceed to stand in line to kiss my ass.

Tombstone RJ
05-28-2009, 09:04 AM
No, dumbass. I think everyone has a right to their own values, as long as they do not attempt to shove their values down the throat of someone who beliefs do not mirror theirs.

The Church and their followers constantly attempt to manipulate goverment to impose their morals upon the whole damn country.

**** them!

Wow, your a mixed up person. Too bad for you...

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 09:09 AM
Wow, your a mixed up person.

I'm not the one who believes the world was created in six days, and I'm not the one who respects a group who condones pedophelia by their "elected" cult leaders.

Tombstone RJ
05-28-2009, 09:10 AM
There's a big difference: our values PERMIT, your values RESTRICT.

LIBERTY is about PERMITTING.

Wrong. Wow Buff, you come of as Holier Then Thou in your liberal rhetoric. too bad your liberosity leads to chaos...

The more you deny right and wrong and the more you allow good and bad to become subjective, then the more you devalue human existence.

Spider
05-28-2009, 09:17 AM
You're not getting the point. Pedophiles are a "minority", and what if some gay kid likes what he's doing to them? That's consensual isn't it? See how far you can go out of bounds once you keep lowering your moral standards?

And what about incest? Or, let's take it to the next level. Say you have a cat. You love your cat. Your cat loves you. So, you decide you want to marry, and then have sex with...your cat. These 2 groups are "minorities" too, right? So what about them? See what I'm saying?

no he gets it your the one that doesnt , you cant take an Illegal act and compare it to another act that is legal , but you dont like it ...Thats no different then me saying All Christians are like Vicki Swapp , what Vickie and her clan did was illegal , But they was devote Christians.............

Tombstone RJ
05-28-2009, 09:20 AM
I'm not the one who believes the world was created in six days, and I'm not the one who respects a group who condones pedophelia by their "elected" cult leaders.

I'm not sure what cult your talking about but certainly there have been many bad things done in the name of religion and for that, we all suffer.

But right and wrong, good and bad, good and evil are not subject to interpretation. The Bible, whether you believe it or not, lays a very firm guideline for ethics and morals that have shaped Western Civilization for the past 1500 years or so (Culminating in this society we live in).

For liberal detractors to simply nullify Bible based values simply because they feel excluded from them, or don't agree with them, seriously jeapordizes everyone's way of life.

By minimizing our Judeo Christian values, you chip away out the foundation of all our lives. I don't think many liberals understand this. All they see is "me, me, me" and if you think in those terms, you corrupt not only youself, but everyone around you.

Spider
05-28-2009, 09:21 AM
Wrong. Wow Buff, you come of as Holier Then Thou in your liberal rhetoric. too bad your liberosity leads to chaos...

The more you deny right and wrong and the more you allow good and bad to become subjective, then the more you devalue human existence.

wow you know I didnt stop to think about this until this thread , Animals can make choices , gay marriage leads to chaos... hmmmmmmmmmmmm I got it , gay marriage will lead to cats and dogs getting married

Spider
05-28-2009, 09:26 AM
I'm not sure what cult your talking about but certainly there have been many bad things done in the name of religion and for that, we all suffer.

But right and wrong, good and bad, good and evil are not subject to interpretation. The Bible, whether you believe it or not, lays a very firm guideline for ethics and morals that have shaped Western Civilization for the past 1500 years or so (Culminating in this society we live in).

For liberal detractors to simply nullify Bible based values simply because they feel excluded from them, or don't agree with them, seriously jeapordizes everyone's way of life.

By minimizing our Judeo Christian values, you chip away out the foundation of all our lives. I don't think many liberals understand this. All they see is "me, me, me" and if you think in those terms, you corrupt not only youself, but everyone around you.

The Bible also said it was ok to kill your wife for adultery
Slavery was ok

Tombstone RJ
05-28-2009, 09:34 AM
The Bible also said it was ok to kill your wife for adultery
Slavery was ok

The Bible says many things and much of it is taken out of context.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 09:37 AM
The Bible also said it was ok to kill your wife for adultery
Slavery was ok

Ok don't twist the Bible around to support your presuppositions.

You're trying to equate a culture thousands of years ago in the middle east with our current culture inside the USA and comparing it to our recent slavery issues of the last couple hundred years.

For one thing, God was living among the Israelites at the time. You can't sin right in front of a Holy God and not expect consequences.

Secondly, slavery in biblical times was very different from what we think of when talking of slavery today. And it was not based on the color of people's skin.

In biblical times, it was more along the lines of social status.

People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 09:38 AM
What, because I stand up for the right thing some of you don't like it? Too bad!

I don't want this to turn into a Bible debate, but you sound like some of those other people who claim it's ok to be homosexual and the Bible is silent on this or that it's ok. And like them, you're dead wrong.

My point is, where do you draw the line on ethics? Face it, our laws are based on the original values put forth in the Bible.

What's next? As mentioned earlier, is being a pedophile now no longer wrong if the majority of this sick world supports it? So 99% of the people say being a pedophile is ok and enact a proposition and now think it's ok to do this. Does that make it right?

You can't allow someone who willfully does the wrong thing (unless they're trying to change and asking for help) to do so publicly or enact laws saying what they do is ok. By supporting this (or even simply not taking a side), you're agreeing that it's not wrong.

Whether you agree with it or not, allowing it to occur is the same thing as not doing anything when your friend cheats on his wife or steals something from a store. Omission of action. It's all doing the wrong thing. And don't tell me your conscience doesn't tell you that, whether or not you want to supress it.

I really don't want this to turn into a Bible debate, let's stick to the point that if they want the same tax breaks, create a proposition that supports that. Don't force a twisted re-definition of marriage on all of us.

But just an FYI, the Bible does say it's a sin and wrong. So next time any church member or leader tells you it's ok to be homosexual (willfully, not wanting to change), tell them to stop listening to whomever is telling them this and actually try reading the Bible for themselves:

Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both young and old,
all the people from every quarter;
Gen 19:5 and they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men that came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto
us, that we may know them.
Gen 19:6 And Lot went out unto them to the door, and shut the door after him.
Gen 19:7 And he said, I pray you, my brethren, do not so wickedly.

Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Rom 1:26 Because they do this, God has given them over to shameful passions. Even the women pervert the natural use of their
sex by unnatural acts.
Rom 1:27 In the same way the men give up natural sexual relations with women and burn with passion for each other. Men do
shameful things with each other, and as a result they bring upon themselves the punishment they deserve for their wrongdoing.

1Co 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor
idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord
Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.

So back on topic, I don't hate homosexuals, I just don't agree with what they do. And you don't shun them, you try to help them. Another problem no one is addressing here is, do you honestly think the gay agenda will be satisfied just having civil unions?

Ask them if they'd be willing to give up dropping the fight against marriage if they could have the exact same benefits as married couples. The majority would say NO.

The bible also says we should stone to death kids who mouth off at their parents, gives instructions on how to sell your daughter into slavery, and says that women ought to wear veils in church and keep their mouths shut. I take it you agree with these things as well since it's right there in the good book?

Tombstone RJ
05-28-2009, 09:38 AM
wow you know I didnt stop to think about this until this thread , Animals can make choices , gay marriage leads to chaos... hmmmmmmmmmmmm I got it , gay marriage will lead to cats and dogs getting married

Speaking of gay marriage, how's your marriage these days...;)

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 09:43 AM
You're not getting the point. Pedophiles are a "minority", and what if some gay kid likes what he's doing to them? That's consensual isn't it? See how far you can go out of bounds once you keep lowering your moral standards?

It's wrong for any adult to engage in sexual relations with any minor. The sexual orientation of either party is totally irrelevant. Pitiful arguments such as the above are a perfect example of how religion atrophies the brain.

And what about incest? Or, let's take it to the next level. Say you have a cat. You love your cat. Your cat loves you. So, you decide you want to marry, and then have sex with...your cat. These 2 groups are "minorities" too, right? So what about them? See what I'm saying?

God, you idiot. An animal cannot give its consent to anything. We are talking about the rights of CONSENTING ADULTS.

Spider
05-28-2009, 09:44 AM
Speaking of gay marriage, how's your marriage these days...;)

;D actually we talked yesterday , we both have ****ed up , neither one of us has let go of those **** ups , but she is willing to work it out , so I need to be also ........ we been married 18 years , 6wonderfull kids kids ..........I need to be more understanding of what she goes through .........

Spider
05-28-2009, 09:45 AM
Ok don't twist the Bible around to support your presuppositions.

You're trying to equate a culture thousands of years ago in the middle east with our current culture inside the USA and comparing it to our recent slavery issues of the last couple hundred years.

For one thing, God was living among the Israelites at the time. You can't sin right in front of a Holy God and not expect consequences.

Secondly, slavery in biblical times was very different from what we think of when talking of slavery today. And it was not based on the color of people's skin.

In biblical times, it was more along the lines of social status.

People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery.

am not twisting anything , those things are in the bible , if anyone is guilty of twisting it is you and others cherry picking

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 09:46 AM
I hope for your sake that you're right, because then we both just die and that's it.

But if I'm right, you're in serious trouble...

There are literally thousands of propositions for what the afterlife entails. What if you're wrong and the Hindus are right? You are looking at reincarnation as a dung beetle, sir. Or what if the Muslims are right and you are an infidel? Torture awaits ye. Etc etc.

Garcia Bronco
05-28-2009, 09:47 AM
The bible also says we should stone to death kids who mouth off at their parents, gives instructions on how to sell your daughter into slavery, and says that women ought to wear veils in church and keep their mouths shut. I take it you agree with these things as well since it's right there in the good book?

I don't believe what you are talking about is in the New Testement. You are talking about the Hebrew Bible.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 09:48 AM
I'm not sure what cult your talking about but certainly there have been many bad things done in the name of religion and for that, we all suffer.

But right and wrong, good and bad, good and evil are not subject to interpretation. The Bible, whether you believe it or not, lays a very firm guideline for ethics and morals that have shaped Western Civilization for the past 1500 years or so (Culminating in this society we live in).

For liberal detractors to simply nullify Bible based values simply because they feel excluded from them, or don't agree with them, seriously jeapordizes everyone's way of life.

By minimizing our Judeo Christian values, you chip away out the foundation of all our lives. I don't think many liberals understand this. All they see is "me, me, me" and if you think in those terms, you corrupt not only youself, but everyone around you.

Man, where do I start?
1.The Bible lays a guideline? For whom? Who decided this is a guideline to be followed.
2.Minimizing Judeo christian values? How can one minimize a value one does not agree with?
3. Nullifying your bible based values doesn't jeapordize my way of life. It may get your panties in a wad, but I'm fine with not having to live by the rules some other person interpreted back in the days when people were stoned and crucified for not conforming.
4. Where do you get the notion that anyone who doesn't believe in the bible, is automatically a liberal.

You religious nuts are ****ing arrogant.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 09:50 AM
The Bible says many things and much of it is taken out of context.


:rofl: Taken out of context by those who preach it. Twisted to fit their present agenda.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 09:52 AM
Speaking of gay marriage, how's your marriage these days...;)


Is that one of your "religious values", you fing hypocrite.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 09:55 AM
I don't believe what you are talking about is in the New Testement. You are talking about the Hebrew Bible.

The first two are in the Old Testament, true. The bit about women and veils is spelled out by Paul in the New Testament. Anyway, I love how so many Christians claim the Bible is perfect and inerrant but then when you bring up Levitical Law in all its viciousness they say, "oh but that was the Old Testament, it doesn't count!"

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 09:58 AM
There are literally thousands of propositions for what the afterlife entails. What if you're wrong and the Hindus are right? You are looking at reincarnation as a dung beetle, sir. Or what if the Muslims are right and you are an infidel? Torture awaits ye. Etc etc.


BUT, only their god is right!^5

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 09:59 AM
I'm not sure what cult your talking about but certainly there have been many bad things done in the name of religion and for that, we all suffer.

But right and wrong, good and bad, good and evil are not subject to interpretation. The Bible, whether you believe it or not, lays a very firm guideline for ethics and morals that have shaped Western Civilization for the past 1500 years or so (Culminating in this society we live in).

For liberal detractors to simply nullify Bible based values simply because they feel excluded from them, or don't agree with them, seriously jeapordizes everyone's way of life.

By minimizing our Judeo Christian values, you chip away out the foundation of all our lives. I don't think many liberals understand this. All they see is "me, me, me" and if you think in those terms, you corrupt not only youself, but everyone around you.

Most of what is referred to as "Judeo-Christian values" existed long before the Hebrew Bible came into being and in societies that never heard of the Hebrew/Christian God. You don't need the Bible to know it's wrong to steal, murder, etc.

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 10:00 AM
Most of what is referred to as "Judeo-Christian values" existed long before the Hebrew Bible came into being and in societies that never heard of the Hebrew/Christian God. You don't need the Bible to know it's wrong to steal, murder, etc.

Hammurabi's code comes to mind.

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 10:02 AM
The first two are in the Old Testament, true. The bit about women and veils is spelled out by Paul in the New Testament. Anyway, I love how so many Christians claim the Bible is perfect and inerrant but then when you bring up Levical Law in all its viciousness they say, "oh but that was the Old Testament, it doesn't count!"

Multiple people have told me that the Bible "is the most historically correct text ever written." What a joke.

mr007
05-28-2009, 10:08 AM
I'll just come right out and say it.

The bible, along with the majority of other religious books, are completely and utterly retarded. They are no different than Greek mythology or any other ancient texts that attempt to explain the unexplainable.... life in general. Tons of stories are made up by <b>MEN</b> who actually are responsible for writing all the bs that exists in the bible.

Religion and interpretation of religious texts are nothing more than cult-like brainwashing.

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 10:09 AM
I'll just come right out and say it.

The bible, along with the majority of other religious books, are completely and utterly retarded. They are no different than Greek mythology or any other ancient texts that attempt to explain the unexplainable.... life in general. Tons of stories are made up by <b>MEN</b> who actually are responsible for writing all the bs that exists in the bible.

Religion and interpretation of religious texts are nothing more than cult-like brainwashing.

This is, almost word for word, my exact thoughts on the subject.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 10:10 AM
I'll just come right out and say it.

The bible, along with the majority of other religious books, are completely and utterly retarded. They are no different than Greek mythology or any other ancient texts that attempt to explain the unexplainable.... life in general. Tons of stories are made up by <b>MEN</b> who actually are responsible for writing all the bs that exists in the bible.

Religion and interpretation of religious texts are nothing more than cult-like brainwashing.


No need to walk on water, scuba is much more fun.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 10:10 AM
Hammurabi's code comes to mind.

Yep. Most of what is in the Bible that is peculiar and specific to Christianity was long ago tossed on the trash heap of history.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 10:14 AM
God, you idiot. An animal cannot give its consent to anything. We are talking about the rights of CONSENTING ADULTS.

That's it, call people names when you don't agree. Nice.

The bible also says we should stone to death kids who mouth off at their parents, gives instructions on how to sell your daughter into slavery, and says that women ought to wear veils in church and keep their mouths shut. I take it you agree with these things as well since it's right there in the good book?

And keep taking things out of context. What part of being a separate people apart from the evil tribes and nations around them do you not get?

The first two are in the Old Testament, true. The bit about women and veils is spelled out by Paul in the New Testament. Anyway, I love how so many Christians claim the Bible is perfect and inerrant but then when you bring up Levical Law in all its viciousness they say, "oh but that was the Old Testament, it doesn't count!"

If you don't want to actually study and learn about why the Israelites did those things at that time in that culture and the reasons behind them, and pull things out of context, then yes one would be where you are right now, completely confused and with a wrong impression of the bible.

It's wrong for any adult to engage in sexual relations with any minor. The sexual orientation of either party is totally irrelevant. Pitiful arguments such as the above are a perfect example of how religion atrophies the brain.

Then your moral standards have already slipped a notch (and will probably continue to do so over the course of your lifetime, judging by the path you've chosen). The problem with your reasoning is you think it's ok for two guys to have sex.

There are literally thousands of propositions for what the afterlife entails. What if you're wrong and the Hindus are right? You are looking at reincarnation as a dung beetle, sir. Or what if the Muslims are right and you are an infidel? Torture awaits ye. Etc etc.

Of course there are. Use your brain. If you were Satan, wouldn't you want to take as many people with you as you could? The only way to get to heaven is by believing in Jesus and keeping His commandments.

Again, you can't look at a sunset, flower, or a rainbow and not realize there's a God. Which means you won't have an excuse to stand on at the end of time. Paul wrote about this as well:

(Rom 1:20) For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Spider
05-28-2009, 10:17 AM
And keep taking things out of context. What part of being a separate people apart from the evil tribes and nations around them do you not get?





I dont mean to pile on here , but you did the exact same thing comparing Pedophiles to Homosexuals .........

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 10:18 AM
Wrong. Wow Buff, you come of as Holier Then Thou in your liberal rhetoric. too bad your liberosity leads to chaos...

The more you deny right and wrong and the more you allow good and bad to become subjective, then the more you devalue human existence.

I've seen less bull**** than this in a barnyard.

DBruleU
05-28-2009, 10:18 AM
Ok don't twist the Bible around to support your presuppositions.

You're trying to equate a culture thousands of years ago in the middle east with our current culture inside the USA and comparing it to our recent slavery issues of the last couple hundred years.

For one thing, God was living among the Israelites at the time. You can't sin right in front of a Holy God and not expect consequences.

Secondly, slavery in biblical times was very different from what we think of when talking of slavery today. And it was not based on the color of people's skin.

In biblical times, it was more along the lines of social status.

People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The Bible most definitely does condemn race-based slavery. Consider the slavery the Hebrews experienced when they were in Egypt. The Hebrews were slaves, not by choice, but because they were Hebrews (Exodus 13:14). The plagues God poured out on Egypt demonstrate how God feels about racial slavery.


Yup, they were more indentured servants than slaves. Also, when their years of service were up, they would typically be given land from whom they were serving.

Unfortunately the slave thing is one of the most misinterpreted things I hear people talk about when they try and bash the Bible.

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 10:20 AM
I'm not sure what cult your talking about but certainly there have been many bad things done in the name of religion and for that, we all suffer.

But right and wrong, good and bad, good and evil are not subject to interpretation. The Bible, whether you believe it or not, lays a very firm guideline for ethics and morals that have shaped Western Civilization for the past 1500 years or so (Culminating in this society we live in).

For liberal detractors to simply nullify Bible based values simply because they feel excluded from them, or don't agree with them, seriously jeapordizes everyone's way of life.

By minimizing our Judeo Christian values, you chip away out the foundation of all our lives. I don't think many liberals understand this. All they see is "me, me, me" and if you think in those terms, you corrupt not only youself, but everyone around you.

Man, this is downright laughable. Do you really believe this crap? I'm guessing you're just being sarcastic. Right?

DivineBronco
05-28-2009, 10:20 AM
yes you can look at a sunset and not think God did it. Some of us think science is kinda neat as well.

DBruleU
05-28-2009, 10:21 AM
That's it, call people names when you don't agree. Nice.



And keep taking things out of context. What part of being a separate people apart from the evil tribes and nations around them do you not get?



If you don't want to actually study and learn about why the Israelites did those things at that time in that culture and the reasons behind them, and pull things out of context, then yes one would be where you are right now, completely confused and with a wrong impression of the bible.



Then your moral standards have already slipped a notch (and will probably continue to do so over the course of your lifetime, judging by the path you've chosen). The problem with your reasoning is you think it's ok for two guys to have sex.



Of course there are. Use your brain. If you were Satan, wouldn't you want to take as many people with you as you could? The only way to get to heaven is by believing in Jesus and keeping His commandments.

Again, you can't look at a sunset, flower, or a rainbow and not realize there's a God. Which means you won't have an excuse to stand on at the end of time. Paul wrote about this as well:

The heavens and earth declare the glory of God.

Seriously, all you need to know that there is a God is right in front of you. It's not a lack of evidence that people choose not to believe, it's simply they don't want to. People don't want to have to be held accountable to anyone but themselves.

Garcia Bronco
05-28-2009, 10:22 AM
The first two are in the Old Testament, true. The bit about women and veils is spelled out by Paul in the New Testament. Anyway, I love how so many Christians claim the Bible is perfect and inerrant but then when you bring up Levitical Law in all its viciousness they say, "oh but that was the Old Testament, it doesn't count!"

The Bible is written by man through his eyes. It is not perfect. Paul is not one to be listened to either, but they had different values and cultures back then. It's improper to beat them up about it.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 10:23 AM
That's it, call people names when you don't agree. Nice.

If you equate homosexual acts between two consenting adults as on par with sex with an animal, then, sorry, you are an idiot. Just telling it like it is (like you!).

And keep taking things out of context. What part of being a separate people apart from the evil tribes and nations around them do you not get?

And just what contextual justification is there for one to sell one's own daughter into slavery under any terms? What contextual justification is there for stoning to death a kid for disrespecting his parents? What contextual justification is their for stoning to death adulterers and homosexuals?



If you don't want to actually study and learn about why the Israelites did those things at that time in that culture and the reasons behind them, and pull things out of context, then yes one would be where you are right now, completely confused and with a wrong impression of the bible.

I've studied the Bible quite extensively. I was once a Christian, after all. Their is no justification for Levitical Law, contextual or otherwise.


Then your moral standards have already slipped a notch (and will probably continue to do so over the course of your lifetime, judging by the path you've chosen). The problem with your reasoning is you think it's ok for two guys to have sex.

The problem with your reasoning is you equate acts between consenting adults with pedophilia, beastiality, theft, and murder. In other words, your problem is the brain washing of your religion.


Of course there are. Use your brain. If you were Satan, wouldn't you want to take as many people with you as you could? The only way to get to heaven is by believing in Jesus and keeping His commandments.

In your opinion. The Hindus and Muslims etc have differing opinions and are just as sure they are right as you are, and have just as much evidence to support their view (i.e. zero).

Again, you can't look at a sunset, flower, or a rainbow and not realize there's a God. Which means you won't have an excuse to stand on at the end of time. Paul wrote about this as well:

I sure can look at those things and not see God. I understand the scientific processes that went into creating such things that require no god whatsoever.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 10:24 AM
Yup, they were more indentured servants than slaves. Also, when their years of service were up, they would typically be given land from whom they were serving.

Unfortunately the slave thing is one of the most misinterpreted things I hear people talk about when they try and bash the Bible.

Yeah, I'm sure being a slave in those days was a veritable paradise Uhh

Garcia Bronco
05-28-2009, 10:25 AM
Sexual deviant acts are sexual deviant acts. Homoesexuality, animal sex, and sex with children all fall under that heading.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 10:26 AM
The Bible is written by man through his eyes. It is not perfect. Paul is not one to be listened to either, but they had different values and cultures back then. It's improper to beat them up about it.

It's perfectly proper when folks claim the Bible is inerrant and wish to force others to live their lives on that assumption.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 10:27 AM
The heavens and earth declare the glory of God.

Seriously, all you need to know that there is a God is right in front of you. It's not a lack of evidence that people choose not to believe, it's simply they don't want to. People don't want to have to be held accountable to anyone but themselves.

Yep. What I think is very cool these days is how archaeology supports the Bible.

The more we find, the more it proves the Bible correct! Here's a good quick summary site (there are obviously a million more out there that are more detailed): http://www.thetimeisnear.com/biblearchaeology.html

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 10:28 AM
yes you can look at a sunset and not think God did it. Some of us think science is kinda neat as well.

:thumbsup:

But science does'nt support their fairy tales.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 10:28 AM
Sexual deviant acts are sexual deviant acts. Homoesexuality, animal sex, and sex with children all fall under that heading.

Wrong. That latter two involve creatures that cannot give their consent. The former is an act between consenting adults. What constitutes "sexual deviancy" amongst consenting adults is a matter of opinion.

Mountain Bronco
05-28-2009, 10:28 AM
Marriage is an "institution" and has been for a long time because it is the means by which people are able to build a foundation for their children. It helps to ensure the healthy continuation of the species from generation to generation.

It doesnt take a genius to see why someone may have issues with what gay "marriage" potentially does to that institution.

It's hard to see past your own nose into the future effects of choices and decisions that you make today for most people in the modern fast food generation. There are (shhhhhhh!) consequences for our choices! Unfortunately, we have taught our children that there are none. They get medals for losing.

I don't need an institution as confounded as marriage in order to (1) build a foundation for my child and (2) help ensure a healthy continuation of the species. Perfectly capable without the notion of marriage. Plus, again, how does allowing gay marriage hurt this? Unless you belive gay couples are bad examples to society, which then means you think gay people are somehow less important.

Gay marriage is then equally a foundation they should be allowed to have to ensure their relationship is healthy and to help continue there traditions from generation to generation.

I do totally agree with the medals for losing comment though. It is enough, we have created the entitlement generation and it drives me nuts.

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 10:32 AM
The point is not what is said, or not said, in the bible, nor is it how it is interpreted. What matters is what is said in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We are a country with many people of many Christian beliefs living here, but we are not a Christian country. We also welcome people of all faiths to live here, under an umbrella of freedom, and practice other faiths than Christianity. I can't believe how many blockheads there are in this country who don't get that. Our country was devised based partly in reaction against the butchery carried out between Catholics and Protestants for the previous couple of hundred years, not to mention a reaction against the control of monarchs and clerics. It's what The Enlightenment was all about. To think that Americans would want to return to the control of religious superstition in this day and age is mind-boggling. Our Founding Fathers fought to free us from the mumbo-jumbo, and now there are those who, flushed with ignorance, work tirelessly to drag us back into the Dark Ages, when the churches controlled us. Over my dead body.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 10:34 AM
Wrong. That latter two involve creatures that cannot give their consent. The former is an act between consenting adults. What constitutes "sexual deviancy" amongst consenting adults is a matter of opinion.

That may be a bit too complicated for those who have been brainwashed to believe they have the GOD given right to judge others, and also have the right to not be judged by other for their twisted and unsubstatiated beliefs.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 10:35 AM
The point is not what is said, or not said, in the bible, nor is it how it is interpreted. What matters is what is said in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. We are a country with many people of many Christian beliefs living here, but we are not a Christian country. We also welcome people of all faiths to live here, under an umbrella of freedom, and practice other faiths than Christianity. I can't believe how many blockheads there are in this country who don't get that. Our country was devised based partly in reaction against the butchery carried out between Catholics and Protestants for the previous couple of hundred years, not to mention a reaction against the control of monarchs and clerics. It's what The Enlightenment was all about. To think that Americans would want to return to the control of religious superstition in this day and age is mind-boggling. Our Founding Fathers fought to free us from the mumbo-jumbo, and now there are those who, flushed with ignorance, work tirelessly to drag us back into the Dark Ages, when the churches controlled us. Over my dead body.


BINGO!

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 10:38 AM
If you equate homosexual acts between two consenting adults as on par with sex with an animal, then, sorry, you are an idiot. Just telling it like it is (like you!).

Sin is sin. Deal with it.

And just what contextual justification is there for one to sell one's own daughter into slavery under any terms? What contextual justification is there for stoning to death a kid for disrespecting his parents? What contextual justification is their for stoning to death adulterers and homosexuals?

Uh...because it's not the slavery you're trying to equate it with for one thing, and the culture was different thousands of years ago...or does that just keep going in one ear and out the other with you?

And again, nice twisting of the verse around. It wasn't for "disrespecting his parents". It was for continuously refusing to listen or obey until they finally gave up.

And for the third time, living in the Israelite camp with a Holy God...blatant sin = consequences.

I've studied the Bible quite extensively. I was once a Christian, after all. Their is no justification for Levitical Law, contextual or otherwise.

Right, because you know the mind of God and why He set things up as He did. Right. Sorry. I forgot He brings you into all His counsels.

The problem with your reasoning is you equate acts between consenting adults with pedophilia, beastiality, theft, and murder. In other words, your problem is the brain washing of your religion.

I don't know how many times or different ways I can say it, but...sin is sin.

In your opinion. The Hindus and Muslims etc have differing opinions and are just as sure they are right as you are, and have just as much evidence to support their view (i.e. zero).

More falsehoods. Have you even bothered to look up the Bible and archaeology (as just one example) to see how archaeology actually proves the Bible correct?

I sure can look at those things and not see God. I understand the scientific processes that went into creating such things that require no god whatsoever.

Right. Because you see life coming from non-life all the time. If you took every living thing off this planet and just waited a hundred million years, you know all kinds of things will pop up! ROFL!

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 10:42 AM
Sin is sin. Deal with it.



Uh...because it's not the slavery you're trying to equate it with for one thing, and the culture was different thousands of years ago...or does that just keep going in one ear and out the other with you?

And again, nice twisting of the verse around. It wasn't for "disrespecting his parents". It was for refusing to continuously refusing to listen or obey until they finally gave up.

And for the third time, leaving in the Israelite camp with a Holy God...blatant sin = consequences.



Right, because you know the mind of God and why He set things up as He did. Right. Sorry. I forgot He brings you into all His counsels.



I don't know how many times or different ways I can say it, but...sin is sin.



More falsehoods. Have you even bothered to look up the Bible and archaeology (as just one example) to see how archaeology actually proves the Bible correct?



Right. Because you see life coming from non-life all the time. If you took every living thing off this planet and just waited a hundred million years, you know all kinds of things will pop up! ROFL!

I'd say that, judging by this post, you practice religion in order to support your own smugness. This is the reason many people turn to religion; So that they might claim superiority over those around them and puff up their own egos. I guess another popular reason is terror. Better to believe in fairy tales than to face the void.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 10:45 AM
I'd say that, judging by this post, you practice religion in order to support your own smugness. This is the reason many people turn to religion; So that they might claim superiority over those around them and puff up their own egos. I guess another popular reason is terror. Better to believe in fairy tales than to face the void.

Whatever helps to supress your conscience so you don't have to think about judgement day my friend...

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 10:47 AM
Whatever helps to supress your conscience so you don't have to think about judgement day my friend...

Like I said, whatever supports that belief in your own superiority that you are desperate to cling to . The sad part of it is, you don't even realize you're just stuck in an ego trip that has nothing to do with mythological, invisible beings.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 10:50 AM
Sin is sin. Deal with it.



Uh...because it's not the slavery you're trying to equate it with for one thing, and the culture was different thousands of years ago...or does that just keep going in one ear and out the other with you?

And again, nice twisting of the verse around. It wasn't for "disrespecting his parents". It was for continuously refusing to listen or obey until they finally gave up.

And for the third time, living in the Israelite camp with a Holy God...blatant sin = consequences.



Right, because you know the mind of God and why He set things up as He did. Right. Sorry. I forgot He brings you into all His counsels.



I don't know how many times or different ways I can say it, but...sin is sin.



More falsehoods. Have you even bothered to look up the Bible and archaeology (as just one example) to see how archaeology actually proves the Bible correct?



Right. Because you see life coming from non-life all the time. If you took every living thing off this planet and just waited a hundred million years, you know all kinds of things will pop up! ROFL!


Did MAN use a saddle when he rode his Dinosaur?LOL

Was it a sin to eat before feeding your dinosaur?

Were dinosaurs on the ARK?

Is it a sin to use birth control?

Is it a sin for a preacher to have sex with a child?

Did parting the sea cause a flood on the shore?

Do your feet get wet when walking on water?

Are hindus evil?

How about Muslims?

Mormons?

Is it a sin to marry more than one woman?

Is it a sin to have a beer before noon on Sundays?

Is it still ok to stone my children if they don't listen to me (often enough)?

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 10:51 AM
Like I said, whatever supports that belief in your own superiority that you are desperate to cling to . The sad part of it is, you don't even realize you're just stuck in an ego trip that has nothing to do with mythological, invisible beings.

I don't believe I'm superior. I'm just fed up with people bashing the Bible out of ignorance. And they don't even actually research it for themselves. They just go along with what these other deluded people say or heard them say and then think it's true. It's the blind leading the blind. They both end up falling into a pit.

If you actually looked into EVERYTHING - I'm talking all the sciences, history, archaeology, etc, there is no excuse for not coming to the realization that we are NOT here by chance.

But as Paul says,

(Rom 1:21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

(Rom 1:22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 10:52 AM
I have many more questions, but I figured this might keep you occupied for a while.

I just curios and want to be sure not to offend anyone.

TheReverend
05-28-2009, 10:53 AM
I don't believe I'm superior. I'm just fed up with people bashing the Bible out of ignorance. And they don't even actually research it for themselves. They just go along with what these other deluded people say or heard them say and then think it's true. It's the blind leading the blind. They both end up falling into a pit.

If you actually looked into EVERYTHING - I'm talking all the sciences, history, archaeology, etc, there is no excuse for not coming to the realization that we are NOT here by chance.

But as Paul says,

But don't you understand when your interpretation of a book whose main concept is to love each other, take care of each other, etc, is that homosexuality is immoral, wrong, and they're destroying our values... well then at least YOUR INTERPRETATION deserves bashing.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 10:53 AM
Sin is sin. Deal with it.

I could care less what you or your Bible believes is sin. And I am under no obligation to do so, nor is any one else. You are entitled to believe what you want regarding homosexuality, but others have the right (or ought to, at any rate) to reject your belief thereof and live their life as they see fit, so long as they don't infringe on the rights of anyone else. That's the underlying theme of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Deal with it.

Uh...because it's not the slavery you're trying to equate it with for one thing, and the culture was different thousands of years ago...or does that just keep going in one ear and out the other with you?

It is wrong to enslave another human being, regardless of how "kind" you may be to said slave. That the conditions may have been more desirable for a Hebrew slave than a slave in 19th century American slave (and there really is not much evidence to support this anyway) is beside the point. What don't YOU get about that?

And again, nice twisting of the verse around. It wasn't for "disrespecting his parents". It was for refusing to continuously refusing to listen or obey until they finally gave up.

Ah! I see! So, in your view, it was perfectly justifiable for a parent to stone their problem child to death? Got it Ha!

And for the third time, leaving in the Israelite camp with a Holy God...blatant sin = consequences.

Yep. Pretty grim consequences considering the crime (death for disobedient children, homosexuals, etc.).

Right, because you know the mind of God and why He set things up as He did. Right. Sorry. I forgot He brings you into all His counsels.

Ah, but he does counsel you? I don't know the mind of god, but somehow you do? I don't believe there is a god. You believe there, but have zero evidence to support that view.

I don't know how many times or different ways I can say it, but...sin is sin.

And bigotry is bigotry.



More falsehoods. Have you even bothered to look up the Bible and archaeology (as just one example) to see how archaeology actually proves the Bible correct?

Science contradicts the Bible more often than not. The account of creation, for example, is scientifically laughable (just one example--there was light before there was a sun).


Right. Because you see life coming from non-life all the time. If you took every living thing off this planet and just waited a hundred million years, you know all kinds of things will pop up! ROFL!

You are obviously as woefully ignorant about science as you (incorrectly) believe I am about the Bible.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 10:53 AM
Did MAN use a saddle when he rode his Dinosaur?LOL

Was it a sin to eat before feeding your dinosaur?

Were dinosaurs on the ARK?

Is it a sin to use birth control?

Is it a sin for a preacher to have sex with a child?

Did parting the sea cause a flood on the shore?

Do your feet get wet when walking on water?

Are hindus evil?

How about Muslims?

Mormons?

Is it a sin to marry more than one woman?

Is it a sin to have a beer before noon on Sundays?

Is it still ok to stone my children if they don't listen to me (often enough)?

See? Perfect example. Thanks for proving my ignorance point.

You do know that dinosaurs are in the Bible right? Kinda another nail in the coffin that disproves evolution...doncha think?

Here, check it out for yourself: http://www.thetimeisnear.com/interestingfacts.html

broncofan7
05-28-2009, 10:54 AM
The heavens and earth declare the glory of God.

Seriously, all you need to know that there is a God is right in front of you. It's not a lack of evidence that people choose not to believe, it's simply they don't want to. People don't want to have to be held accountable to anyone but themselves.

I agree that there is a GOD. But organized religion is but a creation of man--hence the variety that permeates the DIFFERENT CULTURES around the world.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 10:57 AM
But don't you understand when your interpretation of a book whose main concept is to love each other, take care of each other, etc, is that homosexuality is immoral, wrong, and they're destroying our values... well then at least YOUR INTERPRETATION deserves bashing.

Right and wrong is black and white. There is no gray area.

WILLFULLY sinning is the problem here. We all have our own sins to deal with. Some of the early believers were homosexuals. Stress the WERE here. As Paul wrote:

(1Co 6:9) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

(1Co 6:10) Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

(1Co 6:11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 10:59 AM
I could care less what you or your Bible believes is sin. And I am under no obligation to do so, nor is any one else. You are entitled to believe what you want regarding homosexuality, but others have the right (or ought to, at any rate) to reject your belief thereof and live their life as they see fit, so long as they don't infringe on the rights of anyone else. That's the underlying theme of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Deal with it.



It is wrong to enslave another human being, regardless of how "kind" you may be to said slave. That the conditions may have been more desirable for a Hebrew slave than a slave in 19th century American slave (and there really is not much evidence to support this anyway) is beside the point. What don't YOU get about that?



Ah! I see! So, in your view, it was perfectly justifiable for a parent to stone their problem child to death? Got it Ha!



Yep. Pretty grim consequences considering the crime (death for disobedient children, homosexuals, etc.).



Ah, but he does counsel you? I don't know the mind of god, but somehow you do? I don't believe there is a god. You believe there, but have zero evidence to support that view.



And bigotry is bigotry.





Science contradicts the Bible more often than not. The account of creation, for example, is scientifically laughable (just one example--there was light before there was a sun).




You are obviously as woefully ignorant about science as you (incorrectly) believe I am about the Bible.

Again, I don't know how many times I have to the say the same thing to you. At least do your research better before you make your final decision on this.

(2Th 2:11) And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

(2Th 2:12) That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 10:59 AM
I don't believe I'm superior. I'm just fed up with people bashing the Bible out of ignorance.

You arrogantly assume people are ignorant of the Bible simply because they do not reach the same conclusions you do. I have studied the Bible and theology extensively. I'd be willing to wager far more than your average Christian. In fact, it was this process that led me away from Christianity. It became clear that the claims did not come close to passing the sniff test.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 11:00 AM
I don't believe I'm superior. I'm just fed up with people bashing the Bible out of ignorance.

If you actually looked into EVERYTHING - I'm talking all the sciences, history, archaeology, etc, there is no excuse for not coming to the realization that we are NOT here by chance.

,

Herein lies the problem with your belief that we (those who don't subscribe to the weekly bible update) are ignorant.

THE WORLD EXISTED LONG BEFORE YOUR "STORY" WAS WRITTEN, and SCIENCE DOES NOT VALIDATE THE THEORY OF CREATIONISM.

vancejohnson82
05-28-2009, 11:01 AM
Whatever helps to supress your conscience so you don't have to think about judgement day my friend...

I've got to say man, I'm a pretty religous person, but I think you are coming across the wrong way......the fact that free will exists and was enacted by God should be reason enough that people on Earth shouldnt be condemning others...and I think this is where religion gets a bad rap.

It's not our job to separate the good from the bad, but rather it is our duty to try and instill as much good onto others as we possibly can while accepting and loving as many of the bad or ideological opposite as we can...

Using your power of persuasion on issues by using religion is an exercise in futility because you dont have the authority on the issues nor the power to interpret correctly...

now as far as where I believe United States Catholics should stand on the issue is a different story....when it comes to our country, I believe in democracy and the decisions of the people...when it comes to my personal vote my religion will play a part but i dont expect it to play the same part in others decision making processes...Prop 8 was a simple democratic process

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 11:01 AM
Again, I don't know how many times I have to the say the same thing to you. At least do your research better before you make your final decision on this.

I've done plenty of research on the Bible and its claims. Anyone doing the same with an open mind, and not doing so looking only to affirm what they want to believe (as you have clearly done), will see that most Biblical claims are like the emperor with no clothes.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 11:04 AM
You arrogantly assume people are ignorant of the Bible simply because they do not reach the same conclusions you do. I have studied the Bible and theology extensively. I'd be willing to wager far more than your average Christian. In fact, it was this process that led me away from Christianity. It became clear that the claims did not come close to passing the sniff test.

I am truly sorry to hear that my friend. I don't think you've seen the latest items though. When's the last time you looked at how archaeology supports the Bible?

Or for some of your questions about the Bible, did you apply common sense and research the culture at the time to find out why they did the things they did?

Remember God had the Israelites destroy all the people in the promised land. At first glance, you can read this and go, wow that doesn't sound good. But then you research it more and compare scripture with scripture and realize these other nations were idolators, and practiced sacrificing their children in the fire. They had completely wandered away from God and had done so for some time. Then when their cup was finally full God said enough is enough.

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 11:05 AM
"But when Zarathustra was alone he spoke thus to his heart: 'Could it be possible? This old saint in the forest has not yet heard anything of this, that God is dead!'"

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 11:07 AM
Herein lies the problem with your belief that we (those who don't subscribe to the weekly bible update) are ignorant.

THE WORLD EXISTED LONG BEFORE YOUR "STORY" WAS WRITTEN, and SCIENCE DOES NOT VALIDATE THE THEORY OF CREATIONISM.

Sure it does. Again, do some research. Do you know how scientists date things? They look at the layers of rock and then "guess" at the age of the earth. The problem with this is, you can't assume what things were like thousands of years ago. And then you have the flood on top of that.

Haven't you ever wondered why we have seashells on mountaintops?

cutthemdown
05-28-2009, 11:07 AM
And Fonzie came down from his apartment and said to Ritchie, Woooa, and all was forgiven.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 11:09 AM
I've got to say man, I'm a pretty religous person, but I think you are coming across the wrong way......the fact that free will exists and was enacted by God should be reason enough that people on Earth shouldnt be condemning others...and I think this is where religion gets a bad rap.

It's not our job to separate the good from the bad, but rather it is our duty to try and instill as much good onto others as we possibly can while accepting and loving as many of the bad or ideological opposite as we can...

Using your power of persuasion on issues by using religion is an exercise in futility because you dont have the authority on the issues nor the power to interpret correctly...

now as far as where I believe United States Catholics should stand on the issue is a different story....when it comes to our country, I believe in democracy and the decisions of the people...when it comes to my personal vote my religion will play a part but i dont expect it to play the same part in others decision making processes...Prop 8 was a simple democratic process

I just cannot stand idly by while truth is thrown to the ground. And FYI I am not Catholic :pimp:

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 11:09 AM
Sure it does. Again, do some research. Do you know how scientists date things? They look at the layers of rock and then "guess" at the age of the earth. The problem with this is, you can't assume what things were like thousands of years ago. And then you have the flood on top of that.

Haven't you ever wondered why we have seashells on mountaintops?

You just equated Carbon-12 dating to "guessing". Nice.

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 11:10 AM
I just cannot stand idly by while truth is thrown to the ground. And FYI I am not Catholic :pimp:

The truth? Who are you to say that what you are saying is the truth?

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 11:11 AM
I don't believe I'm superior. I'm just fed up with people bashing the Bible out of ignorance. And they don't even actually research it for themselves. They just go along with what these other deluded people say or heard them say and then think it's true. It's the blind leading the blind. They both end up falling into a pit.

If you actually looked into EVERYTHING - I'm talking all the sciences, history, archaeology, etc, there is no excuse for not coming to the realization that we are NOT here by chance.

But as Paul says,

On the one hand you say that you don't believe you are superior and then on the other you use the a round-about way to say that those who don't believe the same as you are fools. Yeah. Right.

Oh, and you also imply that you have looked into "EVERYTHING" while there is no chance that I have not as well?

Sir, you are dripping with smug.

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 11:12 AM
We are here by chance. Chance is the one governing force in the Universe. It's playing the averages.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 11:12 AM
You just equated Carbon-12 dating to "guessing". Nice.



Guessing IS one of the SCIENCES! Ask Garcia!:spit:

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 11:14 AM
You just equated Carbon-12 dating to "guessing". Nice.

Please stop proving me right about ignorance. Seriously.

Radiocarbon dating is only accurate thousands, not millions of years, according to scientists.

That's why they determine an object's age based by the layers of rock it was found in.

Please guys, please do some research before you post!!!

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 11:15 AM
The truth? Who are you to say that what you are saying is the truth?

And who are you to say that what I am saying is not the truth? :strong:

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 11:16 AM
On the one hand you say that you don't believe you are superior and then on the other you use the a round-about way to say that those who don't believe the same as you are fools. Yeah. Right.

Oh, and you also imply that you have looked into "EVERYTHING" while there is no chance that I have not as well?

Sir, you are dripping with smug.

Apologies if I come across that way. It's from the knowledge of all the evidence I have found in my research over the years.

Garcia Bronco
05-28-2009, 11:16 AM
It's perfectly proper when folks claim the Bible is inerrant and wish to force others to live their lives on that assumption.

You are using society standard of 2000 years ago to describe people today.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 11:18 AM
Guessing IS one of the SCIENCES! Ask Garcia!:spit:

Another perfect example. Going along with the guy who was completely wrong about what I was talking about in the first place instead of looking it up, which you can do online these days, for yourself...:thumbs:

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 11:18 AM
And who are you to say that what I am saying is not the truth? :strong:

Show me where I said such a thing. My issue is with how you are treating your morals as if they are on some level beyond everyone else's, and that to deviate from them is wrong. Not morally, but purely, wrong.

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 11:19 AM
Sure it does. Again, do some research. Do you know how scientists date things? They look at the layers of rock and then "guess" at the age of the earth. The problem with this is, you can't assume what things were like thousands of years ago. And then you have the flood on top of that.

Haven't you ever wondered why we have seashells on mountaintops?

I know why there are seashells in the Rockies. A few hundred million years ago this area was a shallow sea. Then, tectonic plates started driving into each other and the land masses, islands and such, carried by the Pacific Plate were driven into the North American plate driving the Rockies up into the sky, and carrying the seashells with them.

Either that or Noah and his family had an oyster dinner while they were sailing around and tossed the shells over board and they sank and settled in the Rockies that were, of course, under water at the time. I wonder. When Noah and his family had oysters, I'm guessing they had to leave the last two, male and female, alive. Right?

Garcia Bronco
05-28-2009, 11:19 AM
You just equated Carbon-12 dating to "guessing". Nice.

Carbon dating is an estimate. An estimate is an educated guess. And educated guess is still a guess. It's a confound.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 11:21 AM
See? Perfect example. Thanks for proving my ignorance point.

You do know that dinosaurs are in the Bible right? Kinda another nail in the coffin that disproves evolution...doncha think?

Here, check it out for yourself: http://www.thetimeisnear.com/interestingfacts.html

However, in reality this is proof in the Bible of dinosaurs existing in Job's time along with man, which HARMONIZES NICELY with the creation and flood accounts in the Bible, and that
we have a young Earth, not one millions and millions of years old.

AKA: Makes it a bit more believable to the ignorant follower.

Garcia Bronco
05-28-2009, 11:21 AM
Guessing IS one of the SCIENCES! Ask Garcia!:spit:

It passes for science around here.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 11:21 AM
I am truly sorry to hear that my friend. I don't think you've seen the latest items though. When's the last time you looked at how archaeology supports the Bible?

I've visited sites such as the one you posted earlier. When you compare the claims of archaeological affirmation with actual scientific analysis done by reputable archaeologists, this affirmation is revealed as nothing more than wild contortions on the part of the believer. As I said before, there is far more of the Bible that is rejected by science (i.e. the creation myth, the sun standing still [they believed the universe revolved around the earth--hence the sun coming to a stand still rather than the Earth], etc) than is affirmed. And even when there is rare affirmation, that hardly proves the Christian god exists. It only proves they actually got something right for a change.

Or for some of your questions about the Bible, did you apply common sense and research the culture at the time to find out why they did the things they did?

Of course I applied common sense, which is does not appear to me you are doing. You are trying to justify capital punishment in cases where today a person would not even be arrested as being perfectly justifiable. I don't care what there culture was at the time; those acts were morally repugnant. They only have their ignorance as an excuse, but fortunately most societies have evolved more reasonable (if imperfect) practices of the law.

Remember God had the Israelites destroy all the people in the promised land. At first glance, you can read this and go, wow that doesn't sound good. But then you research it more and compare scripture with scripture and realize these other nations were idolators, and practiced sacrificing their children in the fire. They had completely wandered away from God and had done so for some time. Then when their cup was finally full God said enough is enough.

This is what you have to do as a religious person: twist and contort to justify genocide. So, they were idolators...they don't have the right to their own religious opinions and beliefs? They practiced human sacrifice... morally repugnant, granted, but is that much worse than stoning people to death for acts such homosexuality and disobedience to one's parents? And, since you are such a Biblical expert, I assume you realize that there is human sacrifice right there in the good book...Jephthah burned his own daughter alive as per the instructions of God (Judges 11:29-40)

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 11:22 AM
I know why there are seashells in the Rockies. A few hundred million years ago this area was a shallow sea. Then, tectonic plates started driving into each other and the land masses, islands and such, carried by the Pacific Plate were driven into the North American plate driving the Rockies up into the sky, and carrying the seashells with them.

Either that or Noah and his family had an oyster dinner while they were sailing around and tossed the shells over board and they sank and settled in the Rockies that were, of course, under water at the time. I wonder. When Noah and his family had oysters, I'm guessing they had to leave the last two, male and female, alive. Right?


:rofl: Oyster shooters!

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 11:22 AM
Another perfect example. Going along with the guy who was completely wrong about what I was talking about in the first place instead of looking it up, which you can do online these days, for yourself...:thumbs:

The earth according to radiometic dating is 4.54 Billion years old, with a percentage of error of 1%. Fact.

The Earth according to the Bible is 6,000 years old. Fact/Conjecture.

The earliest humans originated in East Africa about 200,000 years ago. Fact.

Even if what you say about radiometric dating is true, it still doesn't add up. Not even close.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 11:23 AM
Show me where I said such a thing. My issue is with how you are treating your morals as if they are on some level beyond everyone else's, and that to deviate from them is wrong. Not morally, but purely, wrong.

But you forget my morals have been the standard since the beginning of mankind.

We all have a conscience. We all know deep down what is right and what is wrong.

Now you can wander away from that. And by supressing it enough you can then actually start to believe your wrong-doing is now right.

But that still doesn't make it right.

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 11:25 AM
You are using society standard of 2000 years ago to describe people today.

People are doing that in this very thread. Are you saying that there is NOT an evangelical movement in this country to make their Christian beliefs into law? The gay marriage topic is a perfect example. Many believe the 10 Commandments ought to be the law of the land (see the judge in Alabama who had the 10 Commandments posted above his bench).

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 11:26 AM
I know why there are seashells in the Rockies. A few hundred million years ago this area was a shallow sea. Then, tectonic plates started driving into each other and the land masses, islands and such, carried by the Pacific Plate were driven into the North American plate driving the Rockies up into the sky, and carrying the seashells with them.

Either that or Noah and his family had an oyster dinner while they were sailing around and tossed the shells over board and they sank and settled in the Rockies that were, of course, under water at the time. I wonder. When Noah and his family had oysters, I'm guessing they had to leave the last two, male and female, alive. Right?

And the scientists know this because what? They were there? Come on :thanku:

Yes the seashells are there because of the flood. Which actually lasted about a year by the way. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, and a lot of people think that's how long the flood lasted. But the Bible says Noah was actually in the ark for about a year.

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 11:26 AM
But you forget my morals have been the standard since the beginning of mankind.

We all have a conscience. We all know deep down what is right and what is wrong.

Now you can wander away from that. And by supressing it enough you can then actually start to believe your wrong-doing is now right.

But that still doesn't make it right.

Your morals have been the standard according to the Judeo-Christian Bible. What about the rest of the world that DOESN'T follow even the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religion? Are they wrong? How do you know?

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 11:27 AM
And the scientists know this because what? They were there? Come on :thanku:

Yes the seashells are there because of the flood. Which actually lasted about a year by the way. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, and a lot of people think that's how long the flood lasted. But the Bible says Noah was actually in the ark for about a year.

I bet you believe that Neil Armstong was primarily an actor, too, right?

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 11:28 AM
But you forget my morals have been the standard since the beginning of mankind.

.


Your mankind, or the real mankind? .....and what morals they have been!Hilarious!

Burning at the stake, Stoning, the Crusades, and the best one is the "better than thou" attitude.

Black96WS6
05-28-2009, 11:29 AM
The earth according to radiometic dating is 4.54 Billion years old, with a percentage of error of 1%. Fact.

The Earth according to the Bible is 6,000 years old. Fact/Conjecture.

The earliest humans originated in East Africa about 200,000 years ago. Fact.

Even if what you say about radiometric dating is true, it still doesn't add up. Not even close.

Try googling "is radiometric dating accurate" or "reliable" and see what comes up ^5

Alright guys I can't keep fielding all these posts, I have to get back to work now lol.

Seriously though, before you make a final decision, just look into it for yourselves. We have the Internet now, it's the world's largest reference library. Also google "bible and archaeology", etc.

I'll try and pop back in later :wave:

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 11:31 AM
Black96WS6 is the exact reason for the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, every other Inquisition, the 30 Years War, the imprisionment and sometimes execution of scientists such as Galelio, etc.

It all boils down to the "I'm holier-than-thou, so I must punish you for being wrong, according to me."

BroncoInferno
05-28-2009, 11:32 AM
But you forget my morals have been the standard since the beginning of mankind.

No, they haven't. For one thing, human beings have been around for far longer than the Bible claims. For another, most of Christian morality existed well before the Hebrews thought to write them down (see the Code of Hammurabi).

We all have a conscience. We all know deep down what is right and what is wrong.

Yep. And my conscience tells me that if there were a hell, sanctimonious folks like you would be further in line for the fires than a harmless homosexual.

Now you can wander away from that. And by supressing it enough you can then actually start to believe your wrong-doing is now right.

But that still doesn't make it right.

And your proclamations on the matter are so much sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Inkana7
05-28-2009, 11:32 AM
Try googling "is radiometric dating accurate" or "reliable" and see what comes up ^5

Alright guys I can't keep fielding all these posts, I have to get back to work now lol.

Seriously though, before you make a final decision, just look into it for yourselves. We have the Internet now, it's the world's largest reference library. Also google "bible and archaeology", etc.

I'll try and pop back in later :wave:

OR I could NOT go to some Freewebs page run by some religious nut in Idaho?

The Internet is great, but that doesn't mean that everything in it is, you know, correct. I'd trust Wikipedia, for all its faults, over any link you provide.

Beantown Bronco
05-28-2009, 11:33 AM
Either that or Noah and his family had an oyster dinner while they were sailing around and tossed the shells over board and they sank and settled in the Rockies that were, of course, under water at the time. I wonder. When Noah and his family had oysters, I'm guessing they had to leave the last two, male and female, alive. Right?

Noah must've had some gay-dar back in the day, too. What are the odds of him not picking at least one gay animal of any species?

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Garcia Bronco
05-28-2009, 11:40 AM
People are doing that in this very thread. Are you saying that there is NOT an evangelical movement in this country to make their Christian beliefs into law? The gay marriage topic is a perfect example. Many believe the 10 Commandments ought to be the law of the land (see the judge in Alabama who had the 10 Commandments posted above his bench).

Sure there is. There is also many other groups wanting their beliefs to become law. However you can't talk about people today that believe in the Christian bible and say they believe all the same things people did 2000 years ago. Another thing too is people often attribute Christian beliefs to the Hebrew Bible.

TheReverend
05-28-2009, 11:43 AM
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee75/lifter123456/BiblicalFacebookcopy.jpg

TheReverend
05-28-2009, 11:45 AM
http://www.everyjoe.com/gadgenista/files/2008/11/gods-facebook1.jpg

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 11:48 AM
And the scientists know this because what? They were there? Come on :thanku:

Yes the seashells are there because of the flood. Which actually lasted about a year by the way. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, and a lot of people think that's how long the flood lasted. But the Bible says Noah was actually in the ark for about a year.

I actually only put this in here to see how loony you were. Question answered. Thank you.

Edit: Actually, this provokes a question. How did a clam get to the top of a fourteener? Are you saying that the Earth was covered with water, and the Rockies, of course, were submerged in the sea, and so the clams crawled to the top of the Rockies in a year? Where did they come from? The Gulf? Or the Pacific? So, in a year, a clam crawled from somewhere beneath the Pacific Ocean to the top of the Rockies - underwater? That's a hell of a clam.

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 11:49 AM
Noah must've had some gay-dar back in the day, too. What are the odds of him not picking at least one gay animal of any species?

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That would have thrown a monkey wrench in the whole thing, eh?

TheReverend
05-28-2009, 11:58 AM
That would have thrown a monkey wrench in the whole thing, eh?

It did.

He grabbed a bunch of gay dinosaurs.

TailgateNut
05-28-2009, 12:13 PM
And the scientists know this because what? They were there? Come on :thanku:

Yes the seashells are there because of the flood. Which actually lasted about a year by the way. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, and a lot of people think that's how long the flood lasted. But the Bible says Noah was actually in the ark for about a year.

You're killin' me!:spit:

People should'nt be allowed to be this ****ing ignorant.


So, did the dinosaurs die because Noah didn't allow them on the ark?:spit:

Rohirrim
05-28-2009, 12:56 PM
You're killin' me!:spit:

People should'nt be allowed to be this ****ing ignorant.


So, did the dinosaurs die because Noah didn't allow them on the ark?:spit:

Well, that tosses that giant asteroid theory out on its ass.

Rock Chalk
05-28-2009, 04:56 PM
I personally could care less if two guys or gals want to get 'married'. Half of hetero marriages end in failure and perhaps gays can set the example for the rest of us in working through marital issues;)

although, a one night stand with Ms CALIFORNIA could surely influence my vote;)

The problem is that the divorce rate will go even higher as gay people are far less faithful than hetero sexuals who themselves are not very faithful.

Civil Unions, the legal aspect of marriage, should be equal for all. I have no problems with the queer folk having an equal civil union that is equivalent to that of a hetero sexual.

Marriage however is an entirely different matter and should be settled within the CHURCH, not the ****ing state.

If civil unions are unfair towards gays, that's one thing. Marriage is not a state matter though so this bull**** about gay marriage is just that. Bull****. State has no control over marriage, at all.

cutthemdown
05-28-2009, 05:19 PM
The problem is that the divorce rate will go even higher as gay people are far less faithful than hetero sexuals who themselves are not very faithful.

Civil Unions, the legal aspect of marriage, should be equal for all. I have no problems with the queer folk having an equal civil union that is equivalent to that of a hetero sexual.

Marriage however is an entirely different matter and should be settled within the CHURCH, not the ****ing state.

If civil unions are unfair towards gays, that's one thing. Marriage is not a state matter though so this bull**** about gay marriage is just that. Bull****. State has no control over marriage, at all.

Marriage been avail;able outside of the church for a long long time.

Irish Stout
05-28-2009, 05:21 PM
But you forget my morals have been the standard since the beginning of mankind.

We all have a conscience. We all know deep down what is right and what is wrong.

Now you can wander away from that. And by supressing it enough you can then actually start to believe your wrong-doing is now right.

But that still doesn't make it right.

Dude... the friggin B.C. ancient Greeks who knew nothing that was at all similar to your morals actually were ok with sexuality of all types and styles, they then went on to establish what was consider a very just system in their republic. Their morals didn't match your morals and they were closer to the beginning of mankind than you or your religion is.

Whats your argument then? That because the Greeks eventually lost their "mythology" and stepped in line to a more orthodox religion that they saw the error of their ways? I really hope that this is your argument and you go with it. I have a great macintosh -> windows xp -> windows vista -> mac analogy I'm dying to use.

cutthemdown
05-28-2009, 05:24 PM
And the scientists know this because what? They were there? Come on :thanku:

Yes the seashells are there because of the flood. Which actually lasted about a year by the way. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, and a lot of people think that's how long the flood lasted. But the Bible says Noah was actually in the ark for about a year.

OK you are really stupid.

Shells are on mountains, but the mountains weren't mountains when shells deposited. You should study how mountains are formed. The are uplifted over millions of yrs. So yes there used to be oceans covering vast amounts of the earth. These seas dried up, and plate tectonics, earthquakes, and crust upheaval then forced that land into mountians

By the way floods erode mountains and deposit there shells, rocks, trees, whatever in the valleys below. Ever heard of erosion?

There may or may not have been a great flood, done by god, but it has nothing to do with fossils laid down millions of yr before Christ was even known to man yet.

Irish Stout
05-28-2009, 05:24 PM
The problem is that the divorce rate will go even higher as gay people are far less faithful than hetero sexuals who themselves are not very faithful.

Civil Unions, the legal aspect of marriage, should be equal for all. I have no problems with the queer folk having an equal civil union that is equivalent to that of a hetero sexual.

Marriage however is an entirely different matter and should be settled within the CHURCH, not the ****ing state.

If civil unions are unfair towards gays, that's one thing. Marriage is not a state matter though so this bull**** about gay marriage is just that. Bull****. State has no control over marriage, at all.


If marriage is within the church only, why do you have to register with the state for a marriage license so that you can actually get married? Then you have to file a marriage certificate with the clerk and recorder!?!?!? WTF MAN I WANT IT TO JUST BE IN MY CHURCH!

Also, explain to me how you know the divorce rate will go higher cause them queers are less faithful? How do you know that? How do so many of you straight people know what the gays will do? How do you know what choices they are making? You may be absolutely 100% right, but I'm real curious how you know this.

GreatBronco16
05-28-2009, 05:26 PM
You're so foolish. So angry and so foolish. There is no such evidence known.

BTW, show me the 100% evidence where humans choose one way or the other.


You lowbows are so easy. So angry and so easy.

Wait, so now I'm angry because there is no proof that humans are born to be gay or straight, and with that fact I believe that it is a choice that is made? Really, that makes me angry and foolish? WOW!!

Now, the proof is in the pudding.(no pun) When it comes time that a male or female start to wonder about the other sex or same sex and start having desires to be with one or the other, in the end, they choose which sex to be with. Now there are a lot of factors that go into this. But in the end, it is a choice that is made on who we want to be with at the given time. Some people like both sexes. And that is a choice they make.

GreatBronco16
05-28-2009, 05:28 PM
Nobody is saying that it is a certain thing that you are born one way or another. It could also be influenced by environmental factors and situations growing up. Either way, you do not choose what sex is appealing to you just as you don't choose whether or not chocolate is tasty. It simply is what it is.


I never said you choose which sex is 'appealing' to the person, I said they choose who they want to be with. If it is the same sex, then they choose to have a gay relationship, if they choose the opposite sex, then they choose to have a straight relationship.

Spider
05-28-2009, 05:28 PM
OK you are really stupid.

Shells are on mountains, but the mountains weren't mountains when shells deposited. You should study how mountains are formed. The are uplifted over millions of yrs. So yes there used to be oceans covering vast amounts of the earth. These seas dried up, and plate tectonics, earthquakes, and crust upheaval then forced that land into mountians

By the way floods erode mountains and deposit there shells, rocks, trees, whatever in the valleys below. Ever heard of erosion?

There may or may not have been a great flood, done by god, but it has nothing to do with fossils laid down millions of yr before Christ was even known to man yet.
Thats just crazy talk , everyone knows the Flying Spaghetti monster created mountains

GreatBronco16
05-28-2009, 05:31 PM
When did you choose to be straight?

Probably when I was about 9. I didn't bother to write the date down.

GreatBronco16
05-28-2009, 05:32 PM
People choose weather?

I don't think so.

Oh hell, it's the Chief of the Orangemane Spelling Police Department. Does this draw a fine or do I have to do time?

Irish Stout
05-28-2009, 05:37 PM
I'm not making any statement as to whether gay marriage is right or wrong. I cannot. I do not know. I would never do it myself, but to disallow another human being from engaging in something that is consensual; something I am allowed to do and they aren't, just seems wrong to me... I think that gambling in excess is wrong, but I don't think that we should say gambling in and of itself is not allowed. I think that cheating on your significant other is wrong, but I don't think that we should control the actions and decisions of those who are cheating, or have a legal charge against them if they do. I just don't understand how its ok for us to sit here and say - "Nope. The gays can't marry cause we don't agree with it."

I mean, so what if marriage is defined as a union between two people and not just a man and woman? How is this going to effect your world and make it worse? How is this going to diminish the value of your own marriage? Is it because you're afraid your kids will be more likely to choose the path of the gay? The last one I can understand and accept that fear, but what if your kid ends up gay anyway (I still don't know how its a choice)? Then wouldn't you wish a more tolerant and accepting world for them?

The gay marriage thing has been equated to slavery and I think its comparable in some ways, but at least gays were never regarded as pure property in this country. I think its much more in kin with the Women's Rights movements... women didn't have the right to vote in this country until 1920 with the affirmation of the 19th amendment. Most of would look back now and say that was wrong, to treat women as such a subclass (insert bad joke here). To tell any human beign that they cannot have the same freedoms of choice and rights to do as others are allowed just seems wrong to me. It seems immoral to me and personally, I do not think Jesus would like it.

GreatBronco16
05-28-2009, 05:50 PM
I'm not making any statement as to whether gay marriage is right or wrong. I cannot. I do not know. I would never do it myself, but to disallow another human being from engaging in something that is consensual; something I am allowed to do and they aren't, just seems wrong to me... I think that gambling in excess is wrong, but I don't think that we should say gambling in and of itself is not allowed. I think that cheating on your significant other is wrong, but I don't think that we should control the actions and decisions of those who are cheating, or have a legal charge against them if they do. I just don't understand how its ok for us to sit here and say - "Nope. The gays can't marry cause we don't agree with it."

I mean, so what if marriage is defined as a union between two people and not just a man and woman? How is this going to effect your world and make it worse? How is this going to diminish the value of your own marriage? Is it because you're afraid your kids will be more likely to choose the path of the gay? The last one I can understand and accept that fear, but what if your kid ends up gay anyway (I still don't know how its a choice)? Then wouldn't you wish a more tolerant and accepting world for them?

The gay marriage thing has been equated to slavery and I think its comparable in some ways, but at least gays were never regarded as pure property in this country. I think its much more in kin with the Women's Rights movements... women didn't have the right to vote in this country until 1920 with the affirmation of the 19th amendment. Most of would look back now and say that was wrong, to treat women as such a subclass (insert bad joke here). To tell any human beign that they cannot have the same freedoms of choice and rights to do as others are allowed just seems wrong to me. It seems immoral to me and personally, I do not think Jesus would like it.


Me personally, I don't care if people choose to be gay, are born gay, are turned gay etc. I don't care if gay people want to be married. It does not affect me in any way, shape or form.

Circle Orange
05-28-2009, 06:30 PM
Don't you people know anything? Gays go to the bottom of hell, the ninth circle in the ice pits. This is due to their ruination of civilization as we know it. Bisexuals, being halfway there, only go to the sixth circle and have the keys to Dis. They are immediately turned to stone. I swear, some of you just fell off the chicken truck...go thump a bible and learn something! Knowitall

OABB
05-28-2009, 06:46 PM
I still can't believe what a hot button issue this is. If gays want to marry, than let them suffer like the rest of us. Marriage nowadays is mostly viewed as a legal unification than a spiritual one anyways, so biblical implications matter not.

I happen to disagree more with people that don't take marriage seriously than those who are gay...

the real problem is that most people are incapable of fostering a healthy marriage because most people are too selfish and lame to pull it off anyways.

If drunk people in Vegas can marry after knowing eachother 3 hours, how is that more pure than gays marrying.

Black takes the bible waaaaay to literally, but if he wants to live a life where his beliefs are told to him rather than finding them out for himself by living and growing, than let him live his suppressed and controlled existence in peace...

cutthemdown
05-28-2009, 06:55 PM
I have no problem with gay marriage. I have a problem with married getting perks single get. Until they do away with all perks of marriage, and make divorces less costly, I refuse to add more marriages to the system!!!!!

it's all a sham. Gays should be happy they can't marry. Gives them a good excuse to have their wild sex orgies and party like freaks.

cutthemdown
05-28-2009, 06:56 PM
Gays also against public nudity laws 3-1, just so you know.


By the way I made that up.

cutthemdown
05-28-2009, 06:56 PM
it's more like 2-1

OABB
05-28-2009, 06:57 PM
I have no problem with gay marriage. I have a problem with married getting perks single get. Until they do away with all perks of marriage, and make divorces less costly, I refuse to add more marriages to the system!!!!!

it's all a sham. Gays should be happy they can't marry. Gives them a good excuse to have their wild sex orgies and party like freaks.

Well, married gay guys usually still have their glory hole parties. Their marriages will probably last longer than ours because they can screw as much strange as they like!

cutthemdown
05-28-2009, 07:00 PM
Well, married gay guys usually still have their glory hole parties. Their marriages will probably last longer than ours because they can screw as much strange as they like!

The whole topic makes me wonder if lawyers did enough to give money to beat prop 8.

Gay marriage helps places that throw weddings, people that cater and throw weddings, bands that can play ITS RAINING MEN and I Will Survive. But most of all its great for Lawyers. Now we got gay pre-nups, gay divorce, gay child custody because of adoption, gay spousal abuse.

And gay people are notorious for having more money then straight people.

cutthemdown
05-28-2009, 07:01 PM
Well, married gay guys usually still have their glory hole parties. Their marriages will probably last longer than ours because they can screw as much strange as they like!

I'm not going to ask how you know this. And actually I already am asking myself why I care lol. Instead I ordered a chainsaw online. I don't even need a chainsaw.

OABB
05-28-2009, 07:02 PM
The whole topic makes me wonder if lawyers did enough to give money to beat prop 8.

Gay marriage helps places that throw weddings, people that cater and throw weddings, bands that can play ITS RAINING MEN and I Will Survive. But most of all its great for Lawyers. Now we got gay pre-nups, gay divorce, gay child custody because of adoption, gay spousal abuse.

And gay people are notorious for having more money then straight people.

sad but true. Lawyers **** everything up. You forgot the cottage industry of tear away Tuxedos...



Not having kids will make the pocketbook a bit heavier. Also they have duel incomes....

OABB
05-28-2009, 07:04 PM
I'm not going to ask how you know this. And actually I already am asking myself why I care lol. Instead I ordered a chainsaw online. I don't even need a chainsaw.

I have two uncles...and my mom has only one brother....

and I live in Los Angeles....

DBroncos4life
05-28-2009, 07:18 PM
I'd rather take a leap of faith with a made up "god" or "my god" as it has been said in this thread then put my faith in man kind. I'm not sure if anyone has taken a good hard look at how the world is today but its far from a kind place.

OABB
05-28-2009, 07:24 PM
I'd rather take a leap of faith with a made up "god" or "my god" as it has been said in this thread then put my faith in man kind. I'm not sure if anyone has taken a good hard look at how the world is today but its far from a kind place.

Thats all perspective and based off of judgement imo. Why does the world have to be "kind". It is what it is, and I think it is dangerous to put faith in anything magical, as it makes you ignore reality.

Change can only come when one views reality... Believing in a made up diety or higher power is why the world is "unkind" imo....

DBroncos4life
05-28-2009, 07:29 PM
Thats all perspective and based off of judgement imo. Why does the world have to be "kind". It is what it is, and I think it is dangerous to put faith in anything magical, as it makes you ignore reality.

Change can only come when one views reality... Believing in a made up diety or higher power is why the world is "unkind" imo....

I don't know if you follow the basic things like treat your fellow man kind as you would want to be treated, and things like that the world would be much better. I grew up Baptist and for the life of me I can't ever remember anyone in my church ever saying our views are right and everyone else is going to hell for not going to our church.

OABB
05-28-2009, 07:33 PM
I don't know if you follow the basic things like treat your fellow man kind as you would want to be treated, and things like that the world would be much better. I grew up Baptist and for the life of me I can't ever remember anyone in my church ever saying our views are right and everyone else is going to hell for not going to our church.

I usually just call people I disagree with pussies....

DBroncos4life
05-28-2009, 07:37 PM
I usually just call people I disagree with pussies....

lol nice :~ohyah!:

Really whats the worst that could happen if kids started honoring their mothers and fathers? Would it be so bad if people didn't walk in a part of town late at night without thinking they might be raped or murdered? Seems to me even if you don't feel that every word in the bible is the truth it still gives us a pretty basic outline for a nice world to want to raise a child in.

OABB
05-28-2009, 07:43 PM
lol nice :~ohyah!:

Really whats the worst that could happen if kids started honoring their mothers and fathers? Would it be so bad if people didn't walk in a part of town late at night without thinking they might be raped or murdered? Seems to me even if you don't feel that every word in the bible is the truth it still gives us a pretty basic outline for a nice world to want to raise a child in.

all joking aside, there is one universal thing that I think is the root of all evil and that is being close minded and not being willing to be wrong. People are basically good, I believe but personal baggage makes us confused.

It's why I get so aggressive if I feel that someone is being stubborn or not willing to talk. I can be a real dbag, but I see a world of confused people, and I think that by merely talking and being open we can overcome most baggage and ultimately be more at peace with ourselves.

this I believe, would make people better overall, and the evil side of man would subside.

I don't believe in Hell, and i don't believe people are born evil. But if you are abused than you either become a victim or a bully and pass the chain of pain along.

Most people like to think they are well rounded and that everyone else is wrong, and this is why we do bad things.

It's as simple as realizing why we do what we do, dealing with the source and watching behavior change.

that's why when people are arrogant or cowardly to even conceive that they might be wrong that they need to have their asses handed to them.

TailgateNut
05-29-2009, 07:26 AM
The problem is that the divorce rate will go even higher as gay people are far less faithful than hetero sexuals who themselves are not very faithful.

Civil Unions, the legal aspect of marriage, should be equal for all. I have no problems with the queer folk having an equal civil union that is equivalent to that of a hetero sexual.

Marriage however is an entirely different matter and should be settled within the CHURCH, not the ****ing state.

If civil unions are unfair towards gays, that's one thing. Marriage is not a state matter though so this bull**** about gay marriage is just that. Bull****. State has no control over marriage, at all.


Where do I start?


"gay people are far less faithful" HUH? Did your ass hurt when you pulled this nugget out? Link?


"Marriage however is an entirely different matter and should be settled within the CHURCH, not the ****ing state." I guess I'm not married, because I did'nt go to church to get married. I did however, get a "MARRIAGE LICENSE" from the state. FYI: The church ceremony is an afterthought for those who think they need confirmation of the marriage.


"State has no control over marriage, at all" BAWAHAHAHAHA!

That's why when people get a divorce they go to the church to get their divorce papers. BAWAHAHA. What a TOOL

TailgateNut
05-29-2009, 07:30 AM
Well, married gay guys usually still have their glory hole parties. Their marriages will probably last longer than ours because they can screw as much strange as they like!


Geezus! You are beyond help!

TailgateNut
05-29-2009, 07:34 AM
lol nice :~ohyah!:

Really whats the worst that could happen if kids started honoring their mothers and fathers? Would it be so bad if people didn't walk in a part of town late at night without thinking they might be raped or murdered? Seems to me even if you don't feel that every word in the bible is the truth it still gives us a pretty basic outline for a nice world to want to raise a child in.


Well, some people don't need those "words" to give a child a nice world to live in. Your comment implies that my children had to endure a horrible world because they lacked exposure to the "GOOD BOOK". Nice!

Rohirrim
05-29-2009, 07:49 AM
Isn't it interesting that Kenneth Starr was the spearhead in the effort to convince the appeals court to uphold Prop 8? Starr really seems to have an unhealthy focus on sexual issues. Anyway, two big, legal guns are taking the case to the 9th circuit.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/20090529.html

Spider
05-29-2009, 07:56 AM
Linda Tripp should have gave Ken Star a little on the side , maybe then Starr wouldnt be such a douche

TonyR
05-29-2009, 09:17 AM
An interesting article on the topic linked below.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aed7b949-7b03-4e5d-810f-ef651863251c

TailgateNut
05-29-2009, 09:39 AM
An interesting article on the topic linked below.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aed7b949-7b03-4e5d-810f-ef651863251c

A good tidbit for the above referenced article:

"In a liberal society, consenting adults are presumed to be able to do as they like, and it is incumbent upon opponents of any such freedom to demonstrate some wider harm. The National Organization for Marriage, on its website, instructs its activists to answer the who-gets-harmed query like so: "Who gets harmed? The people of this state who lose our right to define marriage as the union of husband and wife, that's who." "

broncofan7
05-29-2009, 10:19 AM
I do not think that obese people should be allowed to marry--they are very unsightly to look at, have health issues that are passed on generationally, use more of our resources (food, water) than a person with a BMI less than 35--who is harmed by FAT PEOPLE MARRYING?--We ALL ARE--that's who

Rohirrim
05-29-2009, 11:30 AM
Linda Tripp should have gave Ken Star a little on the side , maybe then Starr wouldnt be such a douche

Even Prince Charles wouldn't tap Linda Tripp.

Hell, even you wouldn't, and that's saying something. ;D

Rohirrim
05-29-2009, 11:34 AM
An interesting article on the topic linked below.

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aed7b949-7b03-4e5d-810f-ef651863251c



Heather Mac Donald of the conservative Manhattan Institute writes, "I fear that it will be harder than usual to persuade black men of the obligation to marry the mother of their children if the inevitable media saturation coverage associates marriage with homosexuals."

The Right has gone bat-**** crazy.

TailgateNut
05-29-2009, 11:42 AM
Heather Mac Donald of the conservative Manhattan Institute writes, "I fear that it will be harder than usual to persuade black men of the obligation to marry the mother of their children if the inevitable media saturation coverage associates marriage with homosexuals."

The Right has gone bat-**** crazy.

Gone???

TonyR
05-29-2009, 12:17 PM
I do not think that obese people should be allowed to marry...

I'm okay with them marrying. I just don't think they should procreate...

TonyR
05-29-2009, 01:39 PM
Niles!

David Hyde Pierce says he married longtime partner

Fri May 29, 11:47 am ET
NEW YORK After keeping his private life out of the spotlight for years, David Hyde Pierce has announced his marriage to longtime partner Brian Hargrove.

The former "Frasier" star spoke candidly in an appearance on ABC's "The View." Wearing a wedding band, Hyde Pierce revealed they tied the knot "very quietly" in California on Oct. 24.

The actor and Hargrove, a producer, are still legally wed despite the California Supreme Court's decision Tuesday to uphold Proposition 8. The gay-marriage ban was approved by voters in November, stopping legal nuptials going forward.

Angered by the ruling, Hyde Pierce said Thursday: "It's like, `Oh great, we made the cut.'"

He called it a "very odd thing" that strangers have a vote on his private decision to marry.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090529/ap_on_en_tv/us_people_david_hyde_pierce_1

cutthemdown
05-29-2009, 01:52 PM
Niles!

David Hyde Pierce says he married longtime partner

Fri May 29, 11:47 am ET
NEW YORK After keeping his private life out of the spotlight for years, David Hyde Pierce has announced his marriage to longtime partner Brian Hargrove.

The former "Frasier" star spoke candidly in an appearance on ABC's "The View." Wearing a wedding band, Hyde Pierce revealed they tied the knot "very quietly" in California on Oct. 24.

The actor and Hargrove, a producer, are still legally wed despite the California Supreme Court's decision Tuesday to uphold Proposition 8. The gay-marriage ban was approved by voters in November, stopping legal nuptials going forward.

Angered by the ruling, Hyde Pierce said Thursday: "It's like, `Oh great, we made the cut.'"

He called it a "very odd thing" that strangers have a vote on his private decision to marry.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090529/ap_on_en_tv/us_people_david_hyde_pierce_1


Funny because on that show Frasier people always speculated that Niles had to be gay. David Hyde Pierce just looks gay. Hmmm maybe there is some merit to the genetic thing.

It's fine gays want to be unhappy. Still though no one has answered the question.

Does the govt promote marriage through tax incentives, because they feel familiy units will produce the best offspring. That offspring will then keep country young and moving forward.

If that is why they do it then gays have no need for govt incentives for family.

They should just do away with marriage having anything to do with the govt.

broncocalijohn
05-29-2009, 10:23 PM
I think there was confusion on the 'Yes' or 'No' options on the ballot ... and of course the LDS people (Mormons) poured $12 million into ads opposing gay marriage.l

No there wasnt. It was simple and beat down to us for months. 70% of blacks voted against it and those are many who normally dont vote but did because of Obama mania. So, the gay dems got their "guy" in office but didnt get their guy down to county courthouse.

Prodigal19
05-30-2009, 05:06 AM
I never said you choose which sex is 'appealing' to the person, I said they choose who they want to be with. If it is the same sex, then they choose to have a gay relationship, if they choose the opposite sex, then they choose to have a straight relationship.

No, you said that that they choose to be gay. You are gay if members of the same sex appeal to you sexually, not if you take part in gay sex. Hell, a straight guy can have sex with another guy and he is still straight.

cutthemdown
05-30-2009, 05:47 AM
No, you said that that they choose to be gay. You are gay if members of the same sex appeal to you sexually, not if you take part in gay sex. Hell, a straight guy can have sex with another guy and he is still straight.

Ahhh the whole just because you chopped down a tree doesn't make you a lumberjack defense.

I'd say if you like women, but decided to screw a man, you are bi, or gay but not yet out all the way.

broncofan7
05-30-2009, 07:48 AM
No there wasnt. It was simple and beat down to us for months. 70% of blacks voted against it and those are many who normally dont vote but did because of Obama mania. So, the gay dems got their "guy" in office but didnt get their guy down to county courthouse.

LOL--& absolutely true.