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Hulamau
05-26-2009, 07:25 AM
Its gonna be a lot of fun watching the Fonze develop into a STUD Ballhawk in the NFL .... Great Move McD!


History may show Smith as wise pick
The rookie cornerback out of Wake Forest is bringing brainpower to the Broncos.
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
Posted: 05/26/2009 01:00:00 AM MDT

Had it been possible to cram Denver's football fans into a Wake Forest history class a few years back, there might be less critique of the Broncos for surrendering a future first-round draft pick in exchange for selecting Alphonso Smith in the second round.

Smith will get thoroughly tested as a rookie cornerback in the next three weeks as the Broncos open their "passing camp" today at Dove Valley.

The beauty of becoming a professional player is that academic distractions disappear.

Count on Smith to make a quick intellectual adjustment to pro ball. It was his sophomore year at Wake Forest and, unlike the stereotypical football player, Smith was serious about his class, "History of the United States since World War II."

According to classmate Michael Earls, Smith displayed the resourcefulness, ingenuity, confidence and even physical skill that made him the very definition of the term student-athlete.

"He was a very funny and nice guy throughout the semester, but I didn't really appreciate how awesome he was until the day of our exam," Earls said while sharing the story last month.

A week before the final, the class professor assigned 10 essay questions to study. Ten? Only one would be picked for the final by a dart throw. With his Demon Deacons preparing for an Orange Bowl meeting against Louisville and finals in other classes, Smith quickly figured studying nine essay topics for naught was a poor economical use of his time.

Earls studied all 10 essay topics, but on the day of the exam, Smith walked in with a cunning smile and tip for his classmates to place all focus on essay question No. 2. And for assurance, let him be the one to throw the dart.

"Everyone was freakin' out," Smith said. "They were like, 'Oh, my God, I need to pass this class.' I was like, 'Hey, I need to pass this class too.' I said, 'Don't worry about it, we're going to do No. 2.' "

No. 2 was Smith's football number at Wake Forest. He is wearing No. 33 with the Broncos after he was acquired through an eyebrow-raising draft trade last month.

Three years earlier, it was time for the final exam and the professor asked for a volunteer to throw the dart. Smith was unanimously chosen.

"He gave the class a little wink, stepped up and absolutely nailed the spot marked No. 2," Earls said.

Once the eruption rarely heard from a college history class had calmed, Smith announced his strategy to his professor and classmates. Rather than laboriously researching 10 topics, he picked the subject he knew best, studied it thoroughly and then practiced throwing darts all week.

Neither Earls or Smith could specifically remember the topic of essay question No. 2, only that it was comprehensively covered during the semester and they aced it. Smith wound up graduating with a degree in history.

"I was going to be a lawyer," Smith said. "Then I figured out I was pretty good in football."

Last month, the Broncos traded one of their two first-round picks in the 2010 draft to Seattle so they could take the 5-foot-9 Smith with the No. 37 overall selection in the second round.

Is Smith worth a first-round pick? Well, at Wake Forest he demonstrated an uncanny knack for making big plays. And that wasn't just in the classroom.

Mike Klis

Busy time for Broncos

Some key dates on the Broncos' remaining offseason schedule leading up to the regular season, the 50th in franchise history. Workouts are at the team's Dove Valley headquarters:

Passing camp (voluntary): Today-Friday, June 2-5, June 8-10

Minicamp (mandatory): June 12-14

Conditioning (voluntary): June 15-19, June 22-26

Training camp: Starts in late July

Preseason opener: Aug. 14 at San Francisco, 8 p.m.

Regular-season opener: Sept. 13 at Cincinnati, 11 a.m.

Regular-season home opener: Sept. 20 vs. Cleveland, 2:15 p.m.

Hulamau
05-26-2009, 07:44 AM
I didn't realize its basically non stop mini-camps between today and June 26! These guys are going to be in good shape by training camp not only physically but in getting that system down and gaining familiarity with each other.

These next 4 weeks are a major part of how this season will go. Real progress now will help surprise a whole lot of people come this fall. Its one of the real perks of having every one write you off based on a lot of new faces a few unknowns and mostly looking in the rear view mirror. The pressure is not so much on this year as no once expects too much. Perfect scenario for coming out and kickin' some ass! May take a while to get going, but I have a feeling some of these teams that see us on the schedule and are things a bye week for them are in for a rude and competitive surprise.

I love it that so many people have a completely fixed snapshot in their minds of Denver's Defense as being EXACTLY like it was the past two years when most of the poor players from those teams are long gone, we have a near 50% turn over in players, and 100% turnover in both the Scheme and all of the D coaches with upgrades at every D coach position that I can tell!

But all these Einsteins have penciled the D in as lucky to be the 28th D in the league .. based on hot air!

alkemical
05-26-2009, 08:00 AM
I didn't realize its basically non stop mini-camps between today and June 26! These guys are going to be in good shape by training camp not only physically but in getting that system down and gaining familiarity with each other.

These next 4 weeks are a major part of how this season will go. Real progress now will help surprise a whole lot of people come this fall. Its one of the real perks of having every one write you off based on a lot of new faces a few unknowns and mostly looking in the rear view mirror. The pressure is not so much on this year as no once expects too much. Perfect scenario for coming out and kickin' some ass! May take a while to get going, but I have a feeling some of these teams that see us on the schedule and are things a bye week for them are in for a rude and competitive surprise.

I love it that so many people have a completely fixed snapshot in their minds of Denver's Defense as being EXACTLY like it was the past two years when most of the poor players from those teams are long gone, we have a near 50% turn over in players, and 100% turnover in both the Scheme and all of the D coaches with upgrades at every D coach position that I can tell!

But all these Einsteins have penciled the D in as lucky to be the 28th D in the league .. based on hot air!


What i want to see, is the D get better through out the year, and improve till the end of the season.

Hulamau
05-26-2009, 08:13 AM
What i want to see, is the D get better through out the year, and improve till the end of the season.

Precisely, if we are playing solid competitive defense by the last half to quarter of the season instead of looking like Super Bowl Champs for the first 4 weeks of the year and a third-rate high school team the last 4 games I'll be happy as a clam! Whether we win all those last games or not.

Just make them a nail biter and show the makings of dominance going forward. Then we'll be fine for years to come.

I like the quality of guys McD is assembling plus the solid guys he kept from what we had. Not too many lazy whiners and 'me first' guys as far as I can see and that's a big plus for building a solid team from here on out.

alkemical
05-26-2009, 08:21 AM
Precisely, if we are playing solid competitive defense by the last half to quarter of the season instead of looking like Super Bowl Champs for the first 4 weeks of the year and a third-rate high school team the last 4 games I'll be happy as a clam! Whether we win all those last games or not.

Just make them a nail biter and show the makings of dominance going forward. Then we'll be fine for years to come.

I like the quality of guys McD is assembling plus the solid guys he kept from what we had. Not too many lazy whiners and 'me first' guys as far as I can see and that's a big plus for building a solid team from here on out.

That's all i want...if we are rebuilding i want to see improvement. I agree on the roster build up...i think it's an improvement.

TonyR
05-26-2009, 09:27 AM
That's a good anecdote on Smith. Hard not to like the guy after reading that. I'll be rooting hard for the move to get him to pay off.

Mr.Meanie
05-26-2009, 09:39 AM
Rather than laboriously researching 10 topics, he picked the subject he knew best, studied it thoroughly — and then practiced throwing darts all week.

Ha!

cmhargrove
05-26-2009, 09:47 AM
About the article...

Foxworth was a really smart guy also, however, I feel like Smith plays smarter, more instinctively, and has a nose for the ball.

I will be surprised if Smith doesn't emerge as the starter across from Bailey sometime later in the season.

Hulamau
05-26-2009, 09:47 AM
That's a good anecdote on Smith. Hard not to like the guy after reading that. I'll be rooting hard for the move to get him to pay off.

Its called creative problem solving and his dart throw idea showed a quick flexible mind that thinks outside the box. Not a bad asset to have for a corner back.

RMT
05-26-2009, 02:24 PM
About the article...

Foxworth was a really smart guy also, however, I feel like Smith plays smarter, more instinctively, and has a nose for the ball.

I will be surprised if Smith doesn't emerge as the starter across from Bailey sometime later in the season.

Over Andre Goodman? I doubt it - although I do see Smith working his way in as the dime and probably nickel back.

FireFly
05-26-2009, 03:15 PM
Over Andre Goodman? I doubt it - although I do see Smith working his way in as the dime and probably nickel back.

I think he'll start the season as our nickel or dime back

oubronco
05-26-2009, 03:35 PM
I think he'll start the season as our nickel or dime back

I thought JMFW was supposed to be the shyt

fdf
05-26-2009, 04:37 PM
Its called creative problem solving and his dart throw idea showed a quick flexible mind that thinks outside the box. Not a bad asset to have for a corner back.

Also, he's really good at throwing darts. And has balls of brass.

watermock
05-26-2009, 04:53 PM
History class?

Of course the prof was going to ask what he had allready covered.

History is just regugitation, unless asked a rhetorical question.

cutthemdown
05-26-2009, 05:11 PM
About the article...

Foxworth was a really smart guy also, however, I feel like Smith plays smarter, more instinctively, and has a nose for the ball.

I will be surprised if Smith doesn't emerge as the starter across from Bailey sometime later in the season.

except foxworth is lanky, has never showed the ability to turn his hips fluidly, and didn't have a ton of picks in college. He had 8 his whole career.

So really outside of the same position, they have nothing in common. Different body types, and obviously SMith played way better in college.

cutthemdown
05-26-2009, 05:13 PM
I thought JMFW was supposed to be the shyt

Broncos IMO think Smith is special and on way higher level then guys like Jack WIlliams and Foxworthless.

If foxy was so good why did ATL then let him walk? Good corners worth what they would have had to give.

If all Smith does is be crap like Foxworth then yeah he's a bust.

He's got to do better then that.

dsmoot
05-26-2009, 06:24 PM
I think he'll start the season as our nickel or dime back

At this point, I would love to see a player who will play the nickel or dime and actually make some plays.

SportinOne
05-26-2009, 07:51 PM
Its called creative problem solving and his dart throw idea showed a quick flexible mind that thinks outside the box. Not a bad asset to have for a corner back.

Meanwhile, Hulamau shows the keen ability of completely buying into an offseason fluff piece.

Atlas
05-26-2009, 07:53 PM
A top 10 pick turned nickleback....gotta love itthwack

ward63
05-26-2009, 09:05 PM
Do you think we keep only 4 or 5 corners? I'm saying 5...

SureShot
05-26-2009, 10:13 PM
It sucks but he will always be compared to what we could have gotten with that pick. If the Broncos blow up and its a pick in the 20's everything will be fine. If that turns out to be a franchise quarterback? It will be Ed REEEED all over again x100.

Lolad
05-26-2009, 10:16 PM
the homerism is strong in this thread.

Atlas
05-26-2009, 10:17 PM
It sucks but he will always be compared to what we could have gotten with that pick. If the Broncos blow up and its a pick in the 20's everything will be fine. If that turns out to be a franchise quarterback? It will be Ed REEEED all over again x100.

Denver traded the 38th pick for whatever they draft at this year...... I suppose if Denver is drafting at 20 and Smith is good then the 18 spots won't be a horrible price to pay, but if they traded a top 10 pick for a short CB drafted at 38 that will be all on McFailure. He is trying to show how smart he is when it looks like he is just going to wind up with egg on his face.

SonOfLe-loLang
05-26-2009, 11:19 PM
Denver traded the 38th pick for whatever they draft at this year...... I suppose if Denver is drafting at 20 and Smith is good then the 18 spots won't be a horrible price to pay, but if they traded a top 10 pick for a short CB drafted at 38 that will be all on McFailure. He is trying to show how smart he is when it looks like he is just going to wind up with egg on his face.

Why dont you actually wait to see what happens before you call him some dumb, uncreative nickname.

Popps
05-26-2009, 11:21 PM
Why dont you actually wait to see what happens before you call him some dumb, uncreative nickname.

Dude, these tools can't stop with the poo-poo face names, now. They've fully invested themselves into hating the new coaching staff and players to such an extent that anything less than failure will make them look silly.

These people running around calling Broncos names, claiming to be fans NEED us to fail.

It's going to be great watching this team improve, and watching these ****ers squirm over the next few years. I'm sure they'll all have perfectly good excuses for making decisions before ever seeing a single snap.

DBroncos4life
05-27-2009, 12:32 AM
Why dont you actually wait to see what happens before you call him some dumb, uncreative nickname.

How about McInarticulate` ;)

footstepsfrom#27
05-27-2009, 12:33 AM
Had a class called Ancient Near Eastern History once in college with this dude who was given to this same sadistic system, except he gave us 3 questions and no list of stuff to study for. It was completely comprehensive and it was the final exam. I started condensing 200 pages of notes from cassette tapes I recorded in class into four word fragments and finally got it down to 32 pages of factoids...got a B and felt like I climbed Everest for it.

I still remember some of that stuff.

worm
05-27-2009, 01:23 AM
There are a lot of reasons to like Alphonso as a football player. This article is not one of them.

His dart throwing, problem solving skills are going to help him play CB, therefore he is deserving of essentially being a 1st round pick? This logic makes sense to you?

If it seems like a bunch of typical spring\summer fluff BS, don't say it too loud. The True Fan Nazis will let you know when you are allowed to have an opinion.

For instance, it is okay to disparage the hard working BRONCO, John Engelberger in the past..because he clearly sucks and any True Fan is well within his right to express the huge suckage factor.

However, to have something critical to say about an off-season move that a freshly minted head coach has made will get you called out by True Fan. He will accuse you of wanting the team to fail.

He will forget that EVERY off season move in the franchise's history has been lauded and criticized by fans. He will try to set it up so that he can be proven right in the future by identifying all the non-fans. True Fan loves to be right. In this example, you will see True Fan post and post about being right after every great play Alphonso makes.

All of which is quite the shame, as I don't think there is a single fan here who wants to see him fail. Or would be bummed if he did something great in Orange and Blue.

The inescapable truth is...a huge risk was taken with this pick. Dart throwing jedi master or not. To expect that pick to not be questioned or scrutinized..even prior to TC is 'rediculous' and only shows how far True Fan will go to be right.

footstepsfrom#27
05-27-2009, 01:30 AM
There are a lot of reasons to like Alphonso as a football player. This article is not one of them.

His dart throwing, problem solving skills are going to help him play CB, therefore he is deserving of essentially being a 1st round pick? This logic makes sense to you?

If it seems like a bunch of typical spring\summer fluff BS, don't say it too loud. The True Fan Nazis will let you know when you are allowed to have an opinion.

For instance, it is okay to disparage the hard working BRONCO, John Engelberger in the past..because he clearly sucks and any True Fan is well within his right to express the huge suckage factor.

However, to have something critical to say about an off-season move that a freshly minted head coach has made will get you called out by True Fan. He will accuse you of wanting the team to fail.

He will forget that EVERY off season move in the franchise's history has been lauded and criticized by fans. He will try to set it up so that he can be proven right in the future by identifying all the non-fans. True Fan loves to be right. In this example, you will see True Fan post and post about being right after every great play Alphonso makes.

All of which is quite the shame, as I don't think there is a single fan here who wants to see him fail. Or would be bummed if he did something great in Orange and Blue.

The inescapable truth is...a huge risk was taken with this pick. Dart throwing jedi master or not. To expect that pick to not be questioned or scrutinized..even prior to TC is 'rediculous' and only shows how far True Fan will go to be right.
http://www.timbossie.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/bullseye.jpg

watermock
05-27-2009, 01:56 AM
The reality won't hit True Fan till draft day '10.

Christ, we allready had 2 #1's this year, and 2#3's.

Mcdummy pre-jacked like a 16 year old.

footstepsfrom#27
05-27-2009, 02:23 AM
The piece is mildly interesting but worthless as far as telling us much about Smith or his chances of success. I've done some recon on him and there are better stories Klis could have focused on. I actually like this kid, but I'm still not convinced the pick was worth the price by a long shot. In any case...reporters should spend some time crafting a real story instead of reaching for anything they can find to fill space.

Hulamau
05-27-2009, 02:53 AM
Meanwhile, Hulamau shows the keen ability of completely buying into an offseason fluff piece.

Of course its an off-season 'fluff" piece as you call it ..... thats mostly what off-season write ups ARE ... and serve a role in getting to know different aspects of the new guys. So what! Doesn't mean they aren't true or relevant.

What this story does highlight though, and that is evident in even any cursory look at this kid as well as listening to him speak (not to mention watching him play in college), is that it all adds up to both direct and anecdotal evidence that the kid is quick on his feet, confident and clever, as well as being a very talented ball-hawk on the field and has the makings of a possible solid team leader in the future.

Now sure, you can nit pick the guy all you want and continue your pout fest over a selection you disagree with. That's perfectly fine. But at least add something of substance to the argument.

Dig up some trash on the kid .. maybe some stories about him beating his mother or robbing a liquor store .. or just being a disruptive player in the locker room? Or all those TDs he got burned for last year or something with some meat to it, toch?

Or at least show how he was really just a marginal player that wasn't highly valued at Wake Forest and also find some evidence of how poorly he was thought of and that he wasn't picked by hardly any scouts as a first round pick as it was.

You know ... come up with at least SOMETHING real for not wanting to give this kid the benefit of the doubt and get on board with him as a Bronco player. At least until its.proven he was a reach. Something at least besides just saying "he is 5'9"" and thus unworthy of this 'guarantee' top ten pick you are absolutely sure we would have had and gave up to get him.

Granted, I would have preferred it was Chicago's pick we gave up too. But McD was adamant that Alphonso was OUR guy and they were going to do what ever it took to get him. McD checked him out thoroughly. in FAR FAR greater detail than either you or I or anyone else here.

If he felt he was worth the price I'm more than willing to see if he's right and nothing I have seen, read nor heard .. from or about this kid so far indicates he is anything but a special talent in the making.

No guarantees, but by any definition of the word 'prospect' you want to use, he fits the bill as a solid shot to make a real impact on this team for a long time to come.

The problem with a few of you Einsteins is that you have this fixed image of a hybrid Johnny Unitas, John Elway, Vince Wilfork, Dick Butkus kind of player as the SURE FIRE guy we would have gotten "If ONLY" we had kept the Chicago pick and given up ours .. or better yet, passed on Smith altogether and gotten some journeyman DT like Brace, who we would have had to move up for as well with some other collection of picks , and who looked far better at BC than he likely is (and that wasn't all that great anyway) in part because he lined-up next to B.J. Raji.

Furthermore, even a guy like Raji, nor anyone else in the top ten is a sure lock for stardom either. In every draft, probably 25% of the top 10 guys either bust or significantly under-perform and it gets worse as you go down through the top 20 or so.

And in every draft there are second round and low first round picks that with the benefit of a season's worth of 20/20 hindsight would easily be top 10 picks on everyone's board.

So to pretend like ANY pick we are likely to have in a present or future draft isn't a RISK is ludicrous.

McD took a carefully calculated and educated risk in making the pick. Yes it may wind up to be at high price for a good player, or it may turnout to be a savvy gutsy move on his part? But regardless he is OUR guy now and I'm more than willing to give the kid the benefit of any doubt until proven otherwise, and very much like the way McD has build this draft/UDFA deliberately and sticking to a game plan.

The fact is none of us will EVER know who or what we might have gotten with Chicago's pick next year. We could just as easily gotten a highly touted piece of flaming dog S**T as we could have the next Elway ( actually FAR more likely than another Elway!) or just something in between.

The point is, its a straw dog argument now. You'll NEVER know who we would have gotten with that pick now, nor how he would have played in our system.

We can wait and see next year who is still on the board when Seattle picks and still you'll be speculating till the cows come home for years to come "If ONLY".

I prefer reality. And that reality is we have Smith now. b**** about it all you want and make your displeasure known so all can appreciate and make note of your drafting insights, that's fine .. but get over it at some point as well!

If Alphonso falls flat on his face then you can crow all you want about what a big mistake McD made ... fair enough. But whining like a bunch a Nervous Neely p***Y's now when you give no other evidence other than some speculation that we 'might' have gotten some one better next year when you haven't even seen the kid play here is a waste of breath if you ask me. And much too premature.

That was fine the first two weeks post draft, but its starting to sound like a broken record now.

I'm sure a few of you McD enemies be back next year to remind us all of what an idiot McD is, and all of us by extension who choose to support those players he picked who seem to show some promise here.

Forget who we could have had in some misty future that you will NEVER know. Talk about who we DO have now and discuss their strengths and weaknesses. That's more relevant than taking pot shots at what could have been.

footstepsfrom#27
05-27-2009, 03:22 AM
You know ... come up with at least SOMETHING real for not wanting to give this kid the benefit of the doubt and get on board with him as a Bronco player. At least until its.proven he was a reach. Something at least besides just saying "he is 5'9"" and thus unworthy of this 'guarantee' top ten pick you are absolutely sure we would have had and gave up to get him.
Character is not a problem with Smith and nobody has said it is. The story is fluff, but that's not Smith's fault. I will write up a story on him and post in later today that I think you will find more interesting than the mail-in job Klis got paid for.

BroncoInSkinland
05-27-2009, 06:08 AM
I love it that so many people have a completely fixed snapshot in their minds of Denver's Defense as being EXACTLY like it was the past two years when most of the poor players from those teams are long gone, we have a near 50% turn over in players, and 100% turnover in both the Scheme and all of the D coaches with upgrades at every D coach position that I can tell!

But all these Einsteins have penciled the D in as lucky to be the 28th D in the league .. based on hot air!

Count me among the Einsteins. I really hope this works out for us, and there are positives we can focus on. Hopefully Smith is one of those positives In addition to Dawkins and possibly Andra (though I really have doubts on that one). The secondary looks good on paper, and LB even looks passable with a hot draft prospect, several linemen moved to OLB, and a veteran FA pickup. My concern is the line. We still failed to address the line.

You can argue UDFA's, which I certainly hope work out, and Fields, and new scheme, and whatever else you want, but the sad fact is we are hoping to get lucky on the line. We got ourselves a handful of pegs and threw them up in the air and are hoping a few land in the right holes. I want Baker to get past his character problems. I want Rulon to be so mentally tough that the physical side just happens. I want Thomas to adjust well to DE. I want Fields to prove he is more than a second stringer. But I also know that you get what you pay for in life. If I go out and buy a $40 TV I am not expecting a 60" flat screen HD TV when I get home and take it out of the box.

Even if all of these players work out perfectly, and the rookies somehow magically produce in thier first year (almost unheard of for a lineman, and I am certain it wont help that there are 3 of them on the line, and thus fewer veterans to pull knowledge/skills from), there is still that aforementioned new scheme. New schemes usually take quite a bit of playing time to get right. Transitioning to the 3-4 specifically takes 2 to 4 years according to most "experts". Even if you count last year and go with the short end of the spectrum we are still a year away. These guys could be fast learners I guess and push that timeframe up proving all the experts wrong. That estimated transition time also takes into account aquiring the right players to acctually run your new scheme properly...

So lets recap. We are expecting new unproven players that 31 other teams passed on, to produce in the first season. We expect this at not one, but three positions. We are expecting them to do this in a scheme that we have run for only a part of one season. Pardon me for basing this all on hot air, but I am not holding my breath for our top 20 defensive ranking.

Do I have a snapshot in my head of our Deffense being exactly like it was the past two years? Absolutely not, we will be drastically changed, and frankly the only direction for our deffense to go is up. At the same point in time I am not expecting the Chicago Bears deffense this year, unfortunately I think we will be closer to the Bad News Bears for most of the season. Do I want the D to fail? Despite what Popps may say, no, I want us to succeed. I just wish we had done more on the line to help us succeed instead of closing our eyes and hoping.

Regarding the rest of this thread Smith has a lot of upside. Smart, fast, creative. That is a nice little fluff piece on him and an amusing story. I will probably tell my step daughter about it when we are watching a game at some point this year. Many people will question the trade to get him for years. As long as he proves to be a reliable starter for us, I will not be one of them. You draft people to get them on the field. As far as I am concerned that is all he has to do to make this trade worth it.

Dexter
05-27-2009, 06:25 AM
Of course its an off-season 'fluff" piece as you call it ..... thats mostly what off-season write ups ARE ... and serve a role in getting to know different aspects of the new guys. So what! Doesn't mean they aren't true or relevant.

What this story does highlight though, and that is evident in even any cursory look at this kid as well as listening to him speak (not to mention watching him play in college), is that it all adds up to both direct and anecdotal evidence that the kid is quick on his feet, confident and clever, as well as being a very talented ball-hawk on the field and has the makings of a possible solid team leader in the future.

Now sure, you can nit pick the guy all you want and continue your pout fest over a selection you disagree with. That's perfectly fine. But at least add something of substance to the argument.

Dig up some trash on the kid .. maybe some stories about him beating his mother or robbing a liquor store .. or just being a disruptive player in the locker room? Or all those TDs he got burned for last year or something with some meat to it, toch?

Or at least show how he was really just a marginal player that wasn't highly valued at Wake Forest and also find some evidence of how poorly he was thought of and that he wasn't picked by hardly any scouts as a first round pick as it was.

You know ... come up with at least SOMETHING real for not wanting to give this kid the benefit of the doubt and get on board with him as a Bronco player. At least until its.proven he was a reach. Something at least besides just saying "he is 5'9"" and thus unworthy of this 'guarantee' top ten pick you are absolutely sure we would have had and gave up to get him.

Granted, I would have preferred it was Chicago's pick we gave up too. But McD was adamant that Alphonso was OUR guy and they were going to do what ever it took to get him. McD checked him out thoroughly. in FAR FAR greater detail than either you or I or anyone else here.

If he felt he was worth the price I'm more than willing to see if he's right and nothing I have seen, read nor heard .. from or about this kid so far indicates he is anything but a special talent in the making.

No guarantees, but by any definition of the word 'prospect' you want to use, he fits the bill as a solid shot to make a real impact on this team for a long time to come.

The problem with a few of you Einsteins is that you have this fixed image of a hybrid Johnny Unitas, John Elway, Vince Wilfork, Dick Butkus kind of player as the SURE FIRE guy we would have gotten "If ONLY" we had kept the Chicago pick and given up ours .. or better yet, passed on Smith altogether and gotten some journeyman DT like Brace, who we would have had to move up for as well with some other collection of picks , and who looked far better at BC than he likely is (and that wasn't all that great anyway) in part because he lined-up next to B.J. Raji.

Furthermore, even a guy like Raji, nor anyone else in the top ten is a sure lock for stardom either. In every draft, probably 25% of the top 10 guys either bust or significantly under-perform and it gets worse as you go down through the top 20 or so.

And in every draft there are second round and low first round picks that with the benefit of a season's worth of 20/20 hindsight would easily be top 10 picks on everyone's board.

So to pretend like ANY pick we are likely to have in a present or future draft isn't a RISK is ludicrous.

McD took a carefully calculated and educated risk in making the pick. Yes it may wind up to be at high price for a good player, or it may turnout to be a savvy gutsy move on his part? But regardless he is OUR guy now and I'm more than willing to give the kid the benefit of any doubt until proven otherwise, and very much like the way McD has build this draft/UDFA deliberately and sticking to a game plan.

The fact is none of us will EVER know who or what we might have gotten with Chicago's pick next year. We could just as easily gotten a highly touted piece of flaming dog S**T as we could have the next Elway ( actually FAR more likely than another Elway!) or just something in between.

The point is, its a straw dog argument now. You'll NEVER know who we would have gotten with that pick now, nor how he would have played in our system.

We can wait and see next year who is still on the board when Seattle picks and still you'll be speculating till the cows come home for years to come "If ONLY".

I prefer reality. And that reality is we have Smith now. b**** about it all you want and make your displeasure known so all can appreciate and make note of your drafting insights, that's fine .. but get over it at some point as well!

If Alphonso falls flat on his face then you can crow all you want about what a big mistake McD made ... fair enough. But whining like a bunch a Nervous Neely p***Y's now when you give no other evidence other than some speculation that we 'might' have gotten some one better next year when you haven't even seen the kid play here is a waste of breath if you ask me. And much too premature.

That was fine the first two weeks post draft, but its starting to sound like a broken record now.

I'm sure a few of you McD enemies be back next year to remind us all of what an idiot McD is, and all of us by extension who choose to support those players he picked who seem to show some promise here.

Forget who we could have had in some misty future that you will NEVER know. Talk about who we DO have now and discuss their strengths and weaknesses. That's more relevant than taking pot shots at what could have been.


HUZZAH!^5

chrisp
05-27-2009, 07:21 AM
I think that very few fans on this board actually want the team to fail. Yes, if the team turns into a contender in the next year or two there will be a lot of people pretending they never said that stuff or just shutting up completely, on the other hand, if we suck, there will be a lot of people on the other side of the fence doing exactly the same

As a fan, my inclination is always to think positive, but that's just me. Some people here clearly have the opposite inclination, but neither propensity in and of itself makes any one of us more or less likely to be right. the truth is, most fans, even those of you who have played the game regularly at an early age, really understand the pros, or can predict how things are going to pan out. With any profession, unless you have been involved in it in a professional capacity, you probably have very little real insight.

We're all entitled to our opinion, and that's the purpose of this board anyway so if people stopped expressing themselves it wouldn't be much fun anymore. We also care about what happens to the Broncos so its natural that we get passionate about these opinions, and this brings us into conflict. So be it! Its only a discussion board, so no-one gets hurt.

Thing is, I don't think we've ever been at a more uncertain stage at any time before in our history. Anyone who feels THAT certain of the outcome (either good or bad) needs to weigh up the following factors:

1) The NFL itself is more wayward than it ever was. You can go from zero to hero or hero to zero in the course of a year very easily
2) Whatever you think of McDaniels (and I like him, by the way) he is untried - with only a year or two as an OC before getting the top job. This adds to the uncertainty
3) Massive player turnover - always the case anyway, but moreso this year, including losing our QB who was definitely talented. Did we gain more than we lost? Only time will tell...
4) New systems on both sides of the ball - personally, I think this is a red herring, but you never know. I thought that a lack of familiarity with the scheme was one of the key problems with the defense the last two years but I no longer think that. The truth (in hindisight) is that the schemes were rubbish and the coaches were rubbish at implementing them. IF the new schemes are good, AND the new coaches are good at teaching them, this may actually be an asset, but please note the IFs........


So forgive me if I have a slight tendency to sit on the fence, despite my natural tendency to think positive and support the new regime......

and yes, if Smith is anything less than a probowler, it will be (as another poster suggested) Ed Reeeeed x 5000, but if the team overall is successful, I won't care. That's the real issue, and the uncomfortable truth is that all we can do is sit and wait. and hope...

alkemical
05-27-2009, 07:28 AM
I just don't get the big deal on his height. Lots of good corners aren't HUGE.

TonyR
05-27-2009, 07:53 AM
I just wish we had done more on the line to help us succeed instead of closing our eyes and hoping.


Me, too. In a perfect world we would have signed some combination of Albert Haynesworth, Chris Canty, Rocky Bernard, Igor Olshansky, Demetric Evans, and Antonio Smith, and traded for Julius Peppers, and drafted some combination of Tyson Jackson, B.J. Raji, Aaron Maybin, Brian Orakpo, Peria Jerry, Evander Hood, Ron Brace, Everette Brown, and Connor Barwin.

The problem is most of the available FA's were either way overpriced or didn't fit what we want to do, and most of the draftees weren't available to us. And most of them won't pan out anyway.

Just curious to know specifically what you haters would have reasonably liked to see us do. What would our former FO have done? Let's hear your hypothetical plans for success.

BroncoInSkinland
05-27-2009, 10:56 AM
Me, too. In a perfect world we would have signed some combination of Albert Haynesworth, Chris Canty, Rocky Bernard, Igor Olshansky, Demetric Evans, and Antonio Smith, and traded for Julius Peppers, and drafted some combination of Tyson Jackson, B.J. Raji, Aaron Maybin, Brian Orakpo, Peria Jerry, Evander Hood, Ron Brace, Everette Brown, and Connor Barwin.

The problem is most of the available FA's were either way overpriced or didn't fit what we want to do, and most of the draftees weren't available to us. And most of them won't pan out anyway.

Just curious to know specifically what you haters would have reasonably liked to see us do. What would our former FO have done? Let's hear your hypothetical plans for success.

Orakpo with the first first rounder, Brace with the second, or with the trade instead of Smith. Spend a little money to fix the unit that hasn't had attention for a decade and get more than one token draft pick to adress the situation. Make it a priority either in Free agency or in the draft, but don't just let it sit and rot all off season. Since we ended up trading next years first anyway, use it to move up for Raji. Any ONE of those would have kept me from being a "hater".

I have had several positive things to say about our situation recently, but the one bright spot I saw from the beginning when Shanny got the pink slip was that maybe we would finally fix the line, and that is the one thing we haven't really addressed aside from waiting for guys to stumble in off the street and hope they work out. Our previous FO probably would have targeted multiple draft picks for the line. That was Shanny and the Goodmans MO recently, draft multiples at the same position and seperate the good from the bad in camp.

It worked out well on O, but not so well on D the last time we tried it. Probably wouldn't have worked out well this time either Shanahan and the Goodmans had a bad history when they tried to draft D. Where exactly did you see me saying the previous FO would have done better?

I wasn't thrilled about losing Shanahan, despite everyone saying he had grown stale, I think we took a hit on game planning and play calling with McDaniels, although I do think Josh will do well at those aspects, just not quiet as well as the guy that had over a .600 winning record with us. I was also upset by the Cutler fiasco, and think we would probably be better off with Shanahan and Cutler still here. That is neither here nor there though. I have moved forward and am examining the positives AND the negatives of our new regime. Running game positive, Defensive backfield positive, Passing game negative that McDaniels really couldn't do a lot about so he gets a pass, Defensive line still the most glaring negative in the NFL unless we get really lucky. See how it works, some good, some bad.

Let me ask you, aside from taking cast offs from SF's line, a single pick that is slotted for OLB, and waiting for guys that no other team considered worthwhile to fall to us in UDFA what has this FO done to adress the D-line? I bold this FO for a reason, I didn't mention the previous FO, you did. I am not that interested in the past and have been avoiding it in looking at the team for some time now.

Edit: There are a couple of partial truths there. 1. If we only did one of the things I mentioned regarding the line I probably would still be a "hater" as I think we needed to address it with more than a bandaid quick fix, but I would also probably be a little less fixated on it at this point. 2. There have been a few times I have mentioned the FO recently, but mostly in threads where that was the primary subject of discussion. I have been attempting to avoid it as it is time to move forward however and am definately not using it as a "yardstick" for this group.