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SouthStndJunkie
05-23-2009, 01:11 AM
I did not see this posted yet....

McDaniels on Rocky Mountain high

Posted on: May 22, 2009 11:32 am

Punt, pass and Judge
Clark Judge

For what it's worth, I was talking to one league executive at this week's NFL owners meetings when the subject turned to Denver. What he told me I did not know, which is that Josh McDaniels wields all the power there. I suspected he had plenty, but I was told that when the Broncos cleaned out their scouts it was McDaniels, not GM Brian Xanders, who chose the replacements. All of them. Interesting.

chrisp
05-23-2009, 01:21 AM
I think Xanders is a true business manager - a contracts/cap/money guy, and that's the type of person Bowlen wanted as GM. The football and player-personnel side however, I feel he wants run by the football people, so this doesn't surprise me. The art of personnel evaluation should be done by true football people, and the evaluators themselves should be chosen by football people too, otherwise you just get schmoozers and BS-artists in your scouting department.....

I'm also hoping that McDaniels knew some scouting people he wanted beforehand, and that it wasn't just a last-minute knee-jerk thing. I do suspect the former but you never know.....I was genuinely worried when we lost the goodmans...

Archer81
05-23-2009, 01:24 AM
I dont care as long as the team wins. He can walk around in a tutu and a crown for all I care if the team makes a playoff run.


:Broncos:

watermock
05-23-2009, 01:51 AM
Gawd...ya thhink so?

http://scientificsonline.com/images/250/30/30812-52.jpg

cutthemdown
05-23-2009, 01:54 AM
I think Xanders is a true business manager - a contracts/cap/money guy, and that's the type of person Bowlen wanted as GM. The football and player-personnel side however, I feel he wants run by the football people, so this doesn't surprise me. The art of personnel evaluation should be done by true football people, and the evaluators themselves should be chosen by football people too, otherwise you just get schmoozers and BS-artists in your scouting department.....

I'm also hoping that McDaniels knew some scouting people he wanted beforehand, and that it wasn't just a last-minute knee-jerk thing. I do suspect the former but you never know.....I was genuinely worried when we lost the goodmans...



What team did the goodmans come from? I never did know where they made their bones. Is there biggest job the Broncos? Or where they scouts and GMS at another team before Broncos.

Also has anyone hired either of the goodmans?

Blueflame
05-23-2009, 01:56 AM
I heard he wanted to ditch "Rocky Mountain High" and replace it with this.....

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/1PX5t9VJweQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/1PX5t9VJweQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

watermock
05-23-2009, 01:57 AM
Does it matter since we now have an index card for our top 100?

watermock
05-23-2009, 02:28 AM
To be clear, the reason Jay Cutler got traded was because of the incompetence of Josh McDaniels, first at not getting Matt Cassel and then communicating in a way a head coach would.

Now, since he is a rookie head coach, it is difficult to project his success.

But we can compare him to the two young rookie coaches in the NFL who were hired before the 2007 season. They were Mike Tomlin, by the Steelers and Lane Kiffin, by the Raiders.

One won the Super Bowl in his second season and the other got fired halfway through his second season. Let's look at their moves and who Josh McDaniels compares to.

Mike Tomlin, comes in being a defensive coordinator using the cover-two defense, keeps the defense intact and the defensive coaches intact, only adding upon the foundation.

Lane Kiffin, supposedly a young offensive whiz, within his first month, trades Randy Moss for a fourth round pick. He then tries to fire the Rob Ryan, the beloved and very competent defensive coordinator, which the owner vetoes.

It is highly likely Josh McDaniels is going to survive in this job because the owner played a huge role in this trade. It is even more likely McDaniels has given the Broncos a long fate of mediocrity until they get another quarterback.

There are Bears fans who think they gave too much and Broncos fans who think good riddance. In 1983, a young franchise quarterback, John Elway was traded to the Colts for two first round picks and a reserve quarterback.

It sounds sort of familiar.

The Colts would be in a downward spiral, that led to the team moving from Baltimore to Indianapolis and consistent losing until 1998 when they got another franchise quarterback in Peyton Manning.

The Broncos with Elway?

Well...
.

watermock
05-23-2009, 02:56 AM
What team did the goodmans come from? I never did know where they made their bones. Is there biggest job the Broncos? Or where they scouts and GMS at another team before Broncos.

Also has anyone hired either of the goodmans?

Does it matter where TD and Rod Smith or Zimm came from? Or even Elway?

The FACT is the 06 and 08 drafts were beyond great, despite losing torain and Powell. /add in Larson and Woodson for good measure.

Mcdummy had THREE FIRST ROUNDERS, A SECOND AND 2 THIRDS.

5 IN THE FIRST 100. 3 IN THE TOP 37.

iT WAS CLAIMED THAT bOWLEN WOLD BECOME "MORE INVOLVED", THEN HE HAS TROUBLE REMEMBERING ONLY A DECADE AGO?

Not only that, he gives McDummy the same powers as Shanahan who has 3 lombardis and another 3 Hunts. FOR A WATERBOY.

BTW, he had Brady, Moss, Welker, Gaffney and boss at TE.

Second, bowlen could of fired Slowick over Shanny's head, but was either too stupid or drunk to do it. Then ?shanny could of walked, or maybe woken up that it was time to repair the front 7.

So, what do we do? draft 6 offensive players, sign 2 QB's and 3 30 something rnning backs, ONLY TO DRAFT A RB IN THE TOP 10 and get a project called Tom B. II in the 6th.

Then we swith defense andhave NOONE to run it. 36 y/o safety we gave 9 MILLON to.

Just wait. The Rev say's 5-11, I'm optimistic our division still sucks and say 6-10.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-23-2009, 05:26 AM
Boy, I just can't get enough of these threads. We're beginning to look like San Diego boards, circa three years ago, when the debate raged over Rivers/Brees and Schottenheimer/Norvell.

Can't wait.

Broncoman13
05-23-2009, 06:20 AM
Does it matter where TD and Rod Smith or Zimm came from? Or even Elway?

The FACT is the 06 and 08 drafts were beyond great, despite losing torain and Powell. /add in Larson and Woodson for good measure.

Mcdummy had THREE FIRST ROUNDERS, A SECOND AND 2 THIRDS.

5 IN THE FIRST 100. 3 IN THE TOP 37.

iT WAS CLAIMED THAT bOWLEN WOLD BECOME "MORE INVOLVED", THEN HE HAS TROUBLE REMEMBERING ONLY A DECADE AGO?

Not only that, he gives McDummy the same powers as Shanahan who has 3 lombardis and another 3 Hunts. FOR A WATERBOY.

BTW, he had Brady, Moss, Welker, Gaffney and boss at TE.

Second, bowlen could of fired Slowick over Shanny's head, but was either too stupid or drunk to do it. Then ?shanny could of walked, or maybe woken up that it was time to repair the front 7.

So, what do we do? draft 6 offensive players, sign 2 QB's and 3 30 something rnning backs, ONLY TO DRAFT A RB IN THE TOP 10 and get a project called Tom B. II in the 6th.

Then we swith defense andhave NOONE to run it. 36 y/o safety we gave 9 MILLON to.

Just wait. The Rev say's 5-11, I'm optimistic our division still sucks and say 6-10.


We didn't have three 1st rounders. We didn't draft a RB in the top 10. And, what 6 offensive players are you talking about? The RB, QB, WR, OT, TE, and C... all of which were in positions of need. You can make a case that McD messed up signing all of those free agent RBs. Wait and see which ones don't make the team though. Right now, I see a lot of good depth.

A lot depends on how Kyle Orton and/or Chris Simms play in this offense. Neither one is Jay Cutler, that much is certain. And, I'm guessing that McD knows that if neither of those two work out... there is an amazing crop of QBs in next year's draft. So good that you could see guys like Tebow or Colt McCoy going in the 2nd round. Here is a quick list of guys and potential draft positions:

1. Bradford (1A)
2. Snead (1B)
3. Tebow (1C)
4. Hiller (1C)
5. McCoy (1C)
6. Pike (2A)
7. Clausen (2C)
8. Lefevour (3A)
9. M. Hall (3A)
10. R.Skinner (3)

I don't think they will be selected this high, but they are certainly talented. Teams picking in the late 1st round often do not need a QB. The only team that I could see finishing in the mid to late 20's that would select a QB is the Vikings.

Plus a few other interesting prospects like OSU's Zac Robinson and WVA's Jarrett Brown. BTW, these guys are are all better sized than Mark Sanchez (per their current listings which could very well be BS.)

Punisher
05-23-2009, 06:40 AM
I dont care as long as the team wins. He can walk around in a tutu and a crown for all I care if the team makes a playoff run.


:Broncos:

I'm with this guy McD can dress like Rey Mysterio and go around play fighting players.

At the end of the day if this guy bring us back to the playoffs everyone will hop back on the Bronco Bandwagon and will make are way back up the "Power Rankings"

Premier-Ace55
05-23-2009, 06:56 AM
Does it matter where TD and Rod Smith or Zimm came from? Or even Elway?

The FACT is the 06 and 08 drafts were beyond great, despite losing torain and Powell. /add in Larson and Woodson for good measure.

Mcdummy had THREE FIRST ROUNDERS, A SECOND AND 2 THIRDS.

5 IN THE FIRST 100. 3 IN THE TOP 37.

iT WAS CLAIMED THAT bOWLEN WOLD BECOME "MORE INVOLVED", THEN HE HAS TROUBLE REMEMBERING ONLY A DECADE AGO?

Not only that, he gives McDummy the same powers as Shanahan who has 3 lombardis and another 3 Hunts. FOR A WATERBOY.

BTW, he had Brady, Moss, Welker, Gaffney and boss at TE.

Second, bowlen could of fired Slowick over Shanny's head, but was either too stupid or drunk to do it. Then ?shanny could of walked, or maybe woken up that it was time to repair the front 7.

So, what do we do? draft 6 offensive players, sign 2 QB's and 3 30 something rnning backs, ONLY TO DRAFT A RB IN THE TOP 10 and get a project called Tom B. II in the 6th.

Then we swith defense andhave NOONE to run it. 36 y/o safety we gave 9 MILLON to.

Just wait. The Rev say's 5-11, I'm optimistic our division still sucks and say 6-10.

Calm down let's actually play the games and see what type of talent we have before saying how bad McDaniels is. He is a rookie head coach who is changing the way things are done here. The goodmans were alright but the broncos missed a lot on personell Shanny at the helm a lot, and man we sucked last year don't let the stats on offense fool you. He has had like 10 years post superbowl to get his team back and we went deep in the playoffs one year. I just think he was maybe getting outdated. At least we have an owner who isn't afraid to try something new to win. Would you rather have the raiders owner, or detroits owner, or Cincy's owner, they do not know what they are doing. Let's just try to give this man a chance he's doing what he thinks will win. I have to say I have much more respect for a person that has the courage to make moves that he thinks are right rather than listening to all the fans, analysts, and pundits who don't evaluate his team on a daily basis.

elsid13
05-23-2009, 07:07 AM
So did Denver release all it's scouts or just the Goodmans? If it's the former is the case that freaking stupid. Why hasn't anyone reported that story?

BroncoBuff
05-23-2009, 07:17 AM
For what it's worth, I was talking to one league executive at this week's NFL owners meetings when the subject turned to Denver. What he told me I did not know, which is that Josh McDaniels wields all the power there. I suspected he had plenty, but I was told that when the Broncos cleaned out their scouts it was McDaniels, not GM Brian Xanders, who chose the replacements. All of them. Interesting.

I hate to say I told you so.

Wait, no .....

I LOVE to say I told you so!!!

Nyah Nyah ! Nnyah!



Popps: "No BroncoBuff, no! It's a power-SHARING arrangement!'
Cito Pelon: "No BroncoBuff No! You got your facts all wrong!"

But I suppose if you didn't believe it when Pat Bowlen told you so ... and you didn't believe it when Jerry Angelo told you so ... and you didn't believe it when BroncoBuff told you so ... you'll still probably find a reason why this report is wrong too.

DenverBrit
05-23-2009, 07:36 AM
Another 'unnamed source' from an unnamed NFL team says he knows exactly what McDaniels is doing in Denver.
This is obviously indisputable evidence that the Mane's self appointed 'insiders' were right all along. Huh, ok, sure.Hilarious!

montrose
05-23-2009, 08:07 AM
As far as Xanders goes, it's seems apparent the guy is more of a cap/business type - although he did play football at Florida State and briefly coached in Atlanta so it's not as though he has no football experience. In addition, Mike Blueth is actually the guy charged with managing with Broncos salary cap I believe.

With that, I do believe it's McDaniels making most of the final decisions, with Xanders essentially as his #2. I could be wrong, but that's my guess based on the information provided.

TonyR
05-23-2009, 08:35 AM
There are Bears fans who think they gave too much and Broncos fans who think good riddance. In 1983, a young franchise quarterback, John Elway was traded to the Colts for two first round picks and a reserve quarterback.

It sounds sort of familiar.

The Colts would be in a downward spiral, that led to the team moving from Baltimore to Indianapolis and consistent losing until 1998 when they got another franchise quarterback in Peyton Manning.

The Broncos with Elway?

Well...


So now Jay Cutler is John Elway. Too funny.

TonyR
05-23-2009, 08:37 AM
...bowlen could of fired Slowick over Shanny's head, but was either too stupid or drunk to do it. Then ?shanny could of walked, or maybe woken up that it was time to repair the front 7.


You make some fair points but I think Slowick was only one of many issues Bowlen had with Shanahan. And he tried and failed to fix the front 7 many times.

Kaylore
05-23-2009, 08:46 AM
I dont care as long as the team wins. He can walk around in a tutu and a crown for all I care if the team makes a playoff run.


:Broncos:

This.

footstepsfrom#27
05-23-2009, 09:46 AM
Here's a scary thought; maybe a high school coach in Ohio is actually the power behind the throne. ;D

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/30/sports/football/30patriots.html


“I always lean on my father for any advice that he can give me,” Josh McDaniels said. “He is obviously the person I molded myself after, and that hasn’t changed because my role here has changed at all. What he knows is still very important to me, and I feel like he still has a tremendous amount to give me as far as knowledge and input in any situation. He’s living vicariously through me, because he never had the opportunity to do this at the major college or pro level.”

Tombstone RJ
05-23-2009, 11:52 AM
McD now has Shanny's power and Shanny did very well his 1st 5 years as HC. Cutler is not gonna effect the Broncos one way or another, good or bad, the way Elway effected the Colts. Two totally different scenarios with the only common denomenator is the draft picks involved.

barryr
05-23-2009, 12:06 PM
If one looks at the roster of this team after last season and the draft choices spent on defense for the last decade, the scouts for the Broncos did not do a very good job on that side of the ball to say the least.

oubronco
05-23-2009, 12:11 PM
.

agreed ;D

BroncoMan4ever
05-23-2009, 12:32 PM
I think Xanders is a true business manager - a contracts/cap/money guy, and that's the type of person Bowlen wanted as GM. The football and player-personnel side however, I feel he wants run by the football people, so this doesn't surprise me. The art of personnel evaluation should be done by true football people, and the evaluators themselves should be chosen by football people too, otherwise you just get schmoozers and BS-artists in your scouting department.....

I'm also hoping that McDaniels knew some scouting people he wanted beforehand, and that it wasn't just a last-minute knee-jerk thing. I do suspect the former but you never know.....I was genuinely worried when we lost the goodmans...

this is just a new version of Shanahan and Sundquist(with less experience)

Paladin
05-23-2009, 02:15 PM
I hate to say I told you so.

Wait, no .....

I LOVE to say I told you so!!!


Nyah Nyah ! Nnyah!



Popps: "No BroncoBuff, no! It's a power-SHARING arrangement!'
Cito Pelon: "No BroncoBuff No! You got your facts all wrong!"

But I suppose if you didn't believe it when Pat Bowlen told you so ... and you didn't believe it when Jerry Angelo told you so ... and you didn't believe it when BroncoBuff told you so ... you'll still probably find a reason why this report is wrong too.

Who gives a shyt? If he wins games, it doesn't matter. And I am willing to give him two years to make it work.

There is much to be said for the system he was trained in. They won consistently. That will happen here as well.

Hope you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back over meaningless crapola....

TheReverend
05-23-2009, 02:17 PM
Who gives a shyt? If he wins games, it doesn't matter. And I am willing to give him two years to make it work.

There is much to be said for the system he was trained in. They won consistently. That will happen here as well.

Hope you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back over meaningless crapola....

McDaniels is his own man and will win or lose on his own merits.

The point you make that I've bolded is beyond stupid. If that were the case, Romeo and Mangini would be winning consistently, right?

...but it doesn't matter because it doesn't apply. Josh will succeed or fail because of Josh and not Bill Belicek.

Kaylore
05-23-2009, 03:54 PM
McDaniels is his own man and will win or lose on his own merits.

The point you make that I've bolded is beyond stupid. If that were the case, Romeo and Mangini would be winning consistently, right?

...but it doesn't matter because it doesn't apply. Josh will succeed or fail because of Josh and not Bill Belicek.

Yes and no. McDaniels is own man and I agree he will sink or swim on his own merits. However the quality of the franchises some of Belichik;s minions inherit should also be a factor. The Jets and Browns have sucked for years and years. They've had a lot of good coaches go through there to succeed in other places. I'm not saying Mangini and Crennel get a free pass, but I do think teams like Denver, Dallas, the Giants, New England and San Diego give their coaches more to succeed with than those other places. It's also why I feel Ken Whisenhunt should have been made coach of the year.

Popps
05-23-2009, 04:03 PM
Popps: "No BroncoBuff, no! It's a power-SHARING arrangement!'
Cito Pelon: "No BroncoBuff No! You got your facts all wrong!"
.

Buff, are these actual quotes?

Better be careful there, counsel.


Personally, I never really gave much of a **** how much power he had so much as what he did with it. I was fine with Shanahan running the ship until he ran it incorrectly.

As others have stated... the end results will be what matter. Shanahan seemed to have no problem with more power early on. But, he somehow got away from what made him successful.

McDaniels will have time to prove himself. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

The power structure matters less than the end results. You've been waging your own war against no one on this issue for the last six months. No one besides a few sore-assed Cutler fans really gives a ****.

Even Judge said... "for what it's worth." As in, how important it is... we can't really quantify. I think he also meant... my info may only be so accurate.

He quoted one NFl executive, nameless... of course. I wonder how finely tuned this mystery executive is into the daily workings of the Denver Broncos? Likely not very.

Again, I really don't care much either way. You feel free to obsess about it day and night.... just try using real quotes if you're going to quote me, sister.

Paladin
05-23-2009, 04:23 PM
Yes and no. McDaniels is own man and I agree he will sink or swim on his own merits. However the quality of the franchises some of Belichik;s minions inherit should also be a factor. The Jets and Browns have sucked for years and years. They've had a lot of good coaches go through there to succeed in other places. I'm not saying Mangini and Crennel get a free pass, but I do think teams like Denver, Dallas, the Giants, New England and San Diego give their coaches more to succeed with than those other places. It's also why I feel Ken Whisenhunt should have been made coach of the year.

Agree. Further, I think the others were D coaches and McD is an O coach. (I can be wrong about that). In any case, McD comes into a franchise that is not a piece of crap, unlike the other coaches.

Yes he will sink or swim, but I believe he brings some of the organizational skills and other intangibles from Boston. And he has limited the press and media access to the team and players. Not a bad idea, actually.

Whether the weenies hereon do not want to admit it or not, McD is more self-assured than most here would like. I cannot understand why some of the "fans" want him to fail.....

It's nuts...

BroncoBuff
05-23-2009, 04:58 PM
Another 'unnamed source' from an unnamed NFL team says he knows exactly what McDaniels is doing in Denver.
This is obviously indisputable evidence that the Mane's self appointed 'insiders' were right all along. Huh, ok, sure.Hilarious!
If you're referring to me, no way. I am no insider and have never claimed to be.

But I do listen to what's being said and what's being reported, and if you paid attention you would have noticed the Cutler situation was framed ENTIRELY in Josh terms, with Xanders rarely mentioned. That was the first clue. Then Bowlen wrote his letter to season ticket holders referring almost exclusively to Josh, then Jerry Angelo discussed the Cutler trade in almost exclusively Josh terms. A deaf dumb and blind kid could deduce from these factors that Josh was "all" in charge.

I told you so ;D

BroncoBuff
05-23-2009, 05:06 PM
Buff, are these actual quotes?

Better be careful there, counsel.

Personally, I never really gave much of a **** how much power he had so much as what he did with it. I was fine with Shanahan running the ship until he ran it incorrectly.
Be careful? C'mon, this is not the Supreme Court in here, I was just paraphrasing (accurately). You must admit I was out in front of this, from nearly day one, and I was shouted down quite a lot. So if this report is correct (and it is), you can't blame me for a wee bit of gloating ...

But I'll agree with 90% of the posts in here, Josh will succeed or fail on his own terms ... he's made some big mistakes in the front office, but that's all over now. For this year anyway. Now we get the gravy, now we get the good times, now we get what we hired Josh for - his coaching.

It's all downhill from here, and I'm looking forward to the ride! :Broncos:

BroncoBuff
05-23-2009, 05:08 PM
Who gives a shyt?

Hope you don't break your arm patting yourself on the back over meaningless crapola....
Fair enough ... it's not all that important.

But it's meaningful enough that there were some VERY heated arguments on this topic.

Popps
05-23-2009, 06:49 PM
Be careful? C'mon, this is not the Supreme Court in here

Yes it is. Every word is crucial to our freedom and prosperity!


It's all downhill from here, and I'm looking forward to the ride! :Broncos:

I know you meant uphill.

;)

footstepsfrom#27
05-23-2009, 07:11 PM
Buff, are these actual quotes?

Better be careful there, counsel.


Personally, I never really gave much of a **** how much power he had so much as what he did with it. I was fine with Shanahan running the ship until he ran it incorrectly.

As others have stated... the end results will be what matter. Shanahan seemed to have no problem with more power early on. But, he somehow got away from what made him successful.

McDaniels will have time to prove himself. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

The power structure matters less than the end results. You've been waging your own war against no one on this issue for the last six months. No one besides a few sore-assed Cutler fans really gives a ****.

Even Judge said... "for what it's worth." As in, how important it is... we can't really quantify. I think he also meant... my info may only be so accurate.

He quoted one NFl executive, nameless... of course. I wonder how finely tuned this mystery executive is into the daily workings of the Denver Broncos? Likely not very.

Again, I really don't care much either way. You feel free to obsess about it day and night.... just try using real quotes if you're going to quote me, sister.
You make some points, but one thing you might be forgetting here; maybe it's not the issue you're looking at...but here's a question: Why did Bowlen tell us he was going to change the previous model he utilized with Shanny and take more of an active role himself...and then decide otherwise? Bowlen reportedly has already had some disagreements with McD on the draft, perhaps other things. I'm just curious about this because it seems Pat is suddenly all over the map on who has what role. He says one thing and does another, just like with the Goodmans. I don't buy the memory thing but he's got something going on to make him suddenly looking like an owner that doesn't know what he wants half the time. I remember when Jerry Jones brought Parcells in and a lot of balogna was mouthed about the nature of that relationship and how Parcells was being given control, but in the end it was Jones meddling and bringing in TO without even consulting Parcells that caused the Tuna to jump ship. This is a different situation of course and Bowlen is not Jones, but the point is this; Is the relationship Bowlen has to this team crystalized or fluid? I'm not sure anyone knows.

Florida_Bronco
05-23-2009, 07:20 PM
I hate to say I told you so.

Wait, no .....

I LOVE to say I told you so!!!

Nyah Nyah ! Nnyah!



Popps: "No BroncoBuff, no! It's a power-SHARING arrangement!'
Cito Pelon: "No BroncoBuff No! You got your facts all wrong!"

But I suppose if you didn't believe it when Pat Bowlen told you so ... and you didn't believe it when Jerry Angelo told you so ... and you didn't believe it when BroncoBuff told you so ... you'll still probably find a reason why this report is wrong too.

Sorry Buff, but this has already been addressed.

Jim Goodman didn't want a full GM position, it was Josh's authority from the day he was hired.

You've got some sort of fantasy that Bowlen promised a division of GM/HC in which the GM picks all the players and the HC just coaches them. That is not today's NFL, and that is never what Bowlen promised. He wanted more balanced power, where the cap, player salary negotiations, player selection, hiring of coaching and other football related staff, etc. were not all handled by one man. More importantly, he promised to be more involved himself.

He's fulfilling that promise. Xanders now manages all things financial and McDaniels makes his personnel moves within those limitations, with input from Xanders and the scouting staff (probably the coaching staff as well).


http://orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2384705&postcount=135

TheReverend
05-23-2009, 07:35 PM
Yes and no. McDaniels is own man and I agree he will sink or swim on his own merits. However the quality of the franchises some of Belichik;s minions inherit should also be a factor. The Jets and Browns have sucked for years and years. They've had a lot of good coaches go through there to succeed in other places. I'm not saying Mangini and Crennel get a free pass, but I do think teams like Denver, Dallas, the Giants, New England and San Diego give their coaches more to succeed with than those other places. It's also why I feel Ken Whisenhunt should have been made coach of the year.

Mangini had an enormous amount of influence in NY. He's the guy who kicked Vilma out of town because he didn't fit a 3-4 despite having an established and successful 4-3 defense and also brought in Brett. No one else.

Romeo's influence was mated up with Phil Savage (he's got a pretty good resume), who was a new arrival and had nothing to do with Cleveland's previous failure.

So if you want to trump these guys were victims of the organization, that's really just silly and ignorant. What these guys did was come to town, immediately force feed their systems whether or not the players matched, removed star players who no longer matched, and then... failed miserably because of it.

Funny you mention Whisenhunt. A run first on offense, and a 3-4 defensive guy. He came to Arizona, did NOT force feed his systems. He ADAPTED to what strengths the team had on offense, and has slowly been evolving the defensive scheme to a 3-4. Never jamming a square peg into a round hole when it wasn't the best chance to win with the talent available.

So... honestly, if that's your POV on Romeo and Mangini, then it only spells bad things because what they did, and what there mistakes were are eerily reminiscent of what McDaniel's has done and is doing here.

TheReverend
05-23-2009, 07:38 PM
Sorry Buff, but this has already been addressed.




http://orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=2384705&postcount=135

Well then, that's a horribly ****ty job of addressing it. Pure speculation and poor speculation at that.

First of all, we've had cap guys before who handled "that side of things" so this isn't Bowlen wanting to not have "one guy managing all of it". Also Bowlen and McDaniels even said themselves that Jim Goodman would be acting as GM. McDaniels went so far as to PRAISE his work in getting great players.

uplink
05-23-2009, 08:30 PM
Well at least McD is smart enough to be able to grab so much power
so quickly.

I wonder is Xanders realizes that if things start to go bad he will be the 1st
scapegoat?

Drek
05-23-2009, 09:44 PM
Well then, that's a horribly ****ty job of addressing it. Pure speculation and poor speculation at that.

First of all, we've had cap guys before who handled "that side of things" so this isn't Bowlen wanting to not have "one guy managing all of it". Also Bowlen and McDaniels even said themselves that Jim Goodman would be acting as GM. McDaniels went so far as to PRAISE his work in getting great players.

You really don't get it do you?

Prior to Shanahan being fired it was his team in every single solitary capacity besides who signed the checks and who's name was listed on the invite to owners meetings.

Shanahan didn't just make decisions on personnel, or cap, or anything just simply football and football only. He determined how EVERY facet of the organization was going to run. That is largely what Bowlen's statement about taking control of his team again was directed at. Shanahan was deciding everything from the players they signed to the menu in the cafeteria that day. Bowlen got sick of paying someone else to effectively play owner with his team on his dime.

As for this article, unnamed executive guy who made one clear error in the referenced statement doesn't really hold a ton of water with me. We fired all of three people from our scouting department, keeping five times that many. Not what I'd call cleaning out the scouts.

TheReverend
05-23-2009, 10:05 PM
You really don't get it do you?

Prior to Shanahan being fired it was his team in every single solitary capacity besides who signed the checks and who's name was listed on the invite to owners meetings.

Shanahan didn't just make decisions on personnel, or cap, or anything just simply football and football only. He determined how EVERY facet of the organization was going to run. That is largely what Bowlen's statement about taking control of his team again was directed at. Shanahan was deciding everything from the players they signed to the menu in the cafeteria that day. Bowlen got sick of paying someone else to effectively play owner with his team on his dime.

As for this article, unnamed executive guy who made one clear error in the referenced statement doesn't really hold a ton of water with me. We fired all of three people from our scouting department, keeping five times that many. Not what I'd call cleaning out the scouts.

:spit:

Because there's enough time in the day...

watermock
05-23-2009, 10:21 PM
But Bowlen DIDN'T take control, he gave all the power to Beavis, and didn't even think about questioning the power grab. Xanders? He possibly could keep inventory on a used car lot.

The goodmans brought denver the best 3 drafts in two decades.

God it's SO OBVIOUS, yet the homers keep bantering like this guy's gonna be the savior.

When Seattle picks their new franchise QB, maybe then you'll get a clue.

Cito Pelon
05-24-2009, 07:33 AM
So did Denver release all it's scouts or just the Goodmans? If it's the former is the case that freaking stupid. Why hasn't anyone reported that story?

There were three Goodman's - Daddy Jim, son Jeff, son Ryan. Jim was titled Assistant Head of Football operations or some such. Jeff was Head of Scouting or some such, Ryan was and is still a scout.

All I know is Jeff was fired, why I don't know. Bowlen then decided Dad Jim had to be fired (I'll speculate because Dad wasn't real happy son Jeff got fired). Son Ryan is still on the scouting staff.

I guess there were too many Chief's trying to run the show and Bowlen had to make some decisions. Too bad they all couldn't get along.

elsid13
05-24-2009, 07:41 AM
You really don't get it do you?

Prior to Shanahan being fired it was his team in every single solitary capacity besides who signed the checks and who's name was listed on the invite to owners meetings.

Shanahan didn't just make decisions on personnel, or cap, or anything just simply football and football only. He determined how EVERY facet of the organization was going to run. That is largely what Bowlen's statement about taking control of his team again was directed at. Shanahan was deciding everything from the players they signed to the menu in the cafeteria that day. Bowlen got sick of paying someone else to effectively play owner with his team on his dime.

As for this article, unnamed executive guy who made one clear error in the referenced statement doesn't really hold a ton of water with me. We fired all of three people from our scouting department, keeping five times that many. Not what I'd call cleaning out the scouts.

Right now it appears every decision is being made by McDaniels. So what has changed expect the paint and the names on the doors?

elsid13
05-24-2009, 07:45 AM
There were three Goodman's - Daddy Jim, son Jeff, son Ryan. Jim was titled Assistant Head of Football operations or some such. Jeff was Head of Scouting or some such, Ryan was and is still a scout.

All I know is Jeff was fired, why I don't know. Bowlen then decided Dad Jim had to be fired (I'll speculate because Dad wasn't real happy son Jeff got fired). Son Ryan is still on the scouting staff.

I guess there were too many Chief's trying to run the show and Bowlen had to make some decisions. Too bad they all couldn't get along.

Bowlen reporting hates conflict, so I can understand his pussy actions that way.

In my mind conflict isn't bad if both side are passionate about arguing their side. But once a decision is made it time for everyone to act on the same page. The question did Bowlen make a decision and everyone didn't play nice or did he act so he didn't have any "conflict" at Dove Valley?

Cito Pelon
05-24-2009, 08:04 AM
I hate to say I told you so.

Wait, no .....

I LOVE to say I told you so!!!

Nyah Nyah ! Nnyah!



Popps: "No BroncoBuff, no! It's a power-SHARING arrangement!'
Cito Pelon: "No BroncoBuff No! You got your facts all wrong!"

But I suppose if you didn't believe it when Pat Bowlen told you so ... and you didn't believe it when Jerry Angelo told you so ... and you didn't believe it when BroncoBuff told you so ... you'll still probably find a reason why this report is wrong too.

:giggle: The evidence is mounting. Let's hope this kid playing with his new toy doesn't break it, and I don't think he has.

The FA signings were good. They(he) upgraded the RB corps which was a definite need, they(he) upgraded the LB corps, they(he) upgraded the secondary which was a definite need, they(he) upgraded 4th WR, they(he) upgraded the DL, they(he) upgraded ST's.

Cutler I don't think will be missed too badly.

For the draft, they(he) got some good players that should definitely improve the O, the D, the ST's right away. I can argue that they could have drafted some front 7 guys in round 2 (Brace, Barwin, Kruger), that would have also improved the D.

But, they(he) felt comfortable with what they had already, apparently. IMO, that's a roll of the dice, we'll just have to wait and see how the dice come up.

Cito Pelon
05-24-2009, 08:16 AM
As far as Xanders goes, it's seems apparent the guy is more of a cap/business type - although he did play football at Florida State and briefly coached in Atlanta so it's not as though he has no football experience. In addition, Mike Blueth is actually the guy charged with managing with Broncos salary cap I believe.

With that, I do believe it's McDaniels making most of the final decisions, with Xanders essentially as his #2. I could be wrong, but that's my guess based on the information provided.

I think Nolan has had quite a bit of input about personnel. Xanders probably has a little input also. McD could be looking over everybody's shoulder trying to micro-manage, I can see that.

If that's the case, Bowlen better straighten him out slowly over the next couple months.

Drek
05-24-2009, 08:36 AM
Right now it appears every decision is being made by McDaniels. So what has changed expect the paint and the names on the doors?

The FOOTBALL decisions are being made by McDaniels.

He hasn't shown any power whatsoever in organizational moves that don't directly relate to the roster and the staff that works immediately with them.

If we're to believe that local reporters ever get anything right, then it'd seem safe to assume that the articles about Shanahan's and Bowlen's relationship beginning to sour this spring when Shanahan wanted to build an entirely new training facility hold water. Thats largely a non-football decision with a hefty dollar sign attached to it.

Furthering that, Bowlen explicitly said he was "taking control of his team back", again indicating there was a power structure in Dove Valley that had him basically on the outside looking in.

Other reports have suggested that while early on Bowlen was kept in the loop on pretty much all team decisions with Shanahan, the last few years it had stopped being the case.

Bowlen was sick of having someone else run his team. He's not a football guy and he doesn't want to be in charge of running the player and coaching personnel side of things, but he wants to be in the loop. Shanahan stopped that, and he probably gave Bowlen a perfect example of it when he said Bob Slowik wasn't going anywhere mere minutes after a 52 point drubbing was laid on his defense by a division rival in a play-in game for the division title.

I pretty firmly believe that Shanahan's firing was less a product of failing to deliver a playoff birth and more the end result of Shanahan no longer communicating with Bowlen about the direction the franchise was headed in. Pat signs the checks but it sure does seem like Shanahan forgot that over the last few years.

Cito Pelon
05-24-2009, 08:44 AM
Bowlen reporting hates conflict, so I can understand his p***Y actions that way.

In my mind conflict isn't bad if both side are passionate about arguing their side. But once a decision is made it time for everyone to act on the same page. The question did Bowlen make a decision and everyone didn't play nice or did he act so he didn't have any "conflict" at Dove Valley?

Hell, I don't know. It was apparent to me post-Shanny there would be too many people vying for personnel power, somebody was gonna go. Bowlen may have planned all along to let them fight it out. I don't know.

I can see both sides of the argument. I think Jim Goodman had been here since 2004, brought in son Jeff and son Ryan. The Broncs certainly got some good draft picks from 2004-2008, but look at the overall team they built - 2005 was the high point, '06, '07, '08, jeez they struggled. They couldn't even build one great unit.

Cito Pelon
05-24-2009, 09:12 AM
You make some points, but one thing you might be forgetting here; maybe it's not the issue you're looking at...but here's a question: Why did Bowlen tell us he was going to change the previous model he utilized with Shanny and take more of an active role himself...and then decide otherwise? Bowlen reportedly has already had some disagreements with McD on the draft, perhaps other things. I'm just curious about this because it seems Pat is suddenly all over the map on who has what role. He says one thing and does another, just like with the Goodmans. I don't buy the memory thing but he's got something going on to make him suddenly looking like an owner that doesn't know what he wants half the time. I remember when Jerry Jones brought Parcells in and a lot of balogna was mouthed about the nature of that relationship and how Parcells was being given control, but in the end it was Jones meddling and bringing in TO without even consulting Parcells that caused the Tuna to jump ship. This is a different situation of course and Bowlen is not Jones, but the point is this; Is the relationship Bowlen has to this team crystalized or fluid? I'm not sure anyone knows.

One can argue that Bowlen took control by firing the Goodman's because they thought they were gonna run roughshod over everybody else.

Bowlen is probably feeling his way through this. He sure shook up the organization. I doubt if he's totally pleased right now, but it's a fluid situation. McD as others have said is certainly under evaluation. Bowlen can smack him down anytime he pleases.

UberBroncoMan
05-24-2009, 01:34 PM
this is just a new version of Shanahan and Sundquist(with less experience)

Basically.Should be noted our HC has no prior HC experience while Shanahan did at Oakland.