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Bronco Rob
05-22-2009, 06:18 PM
Well, one thing you can't say about the Broncos this off-season is that they weren't active. I think I just developed carpal tunnel syndrome typing up the list of players they let drift off into free agency and the players they signed.

They addressed needs. I can't say whether or not they addressed them particularly well, but they were at least thorough. They looked at free agency like Noah looked at the animal kingdom when he built the ark. They needed two of everything.

The coaching staff and general manager are new, too. It's like owner Pat Bowlen lost his copy of the list of team employees and just said, "Ah, to hell with it, I'll just start over again."

It's really hard to envision the Broncos putting together a record of .500 or better next year. There are new systems being installed on both sides of the ball, and a huge amount of roster turnover. And, oh yeah, they got rid of their franchise quarterback, Jay Cutler, in favor of either Chris Simms or Kyle Orton, neither of whom are on what you'd call a Hall of Fame career path.

I saw last year's Broncos as a team that needed to upgrade their defense, and they'd be in business, as they had the offensive tools to be good for a very long time. Obviously, ownership felt differently, and decided that they had gone as far as they where going to go under Mike Shanahan and Cutler.

They felt like it was time for change, and they certainly have their change now. Maybe it'll pay off down the line, but it's hard to picture the 2009 Denver Broncos being much of a factor in the divisional race, even in a weak division.

Progress: It almost feels like Denver's an expansion team. Everything's brand new, and the focus maybe isn't on winning right now, but the next year or the year after that.

Minus 3 games. 8-8 last year, 5-11 this year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Offseason-progress-reports-Denver-Broncos;_ylt=A9G_bxrXTRdK5JsAeQdDubYF?urn=nfl,1651 02




LOL

bap454
05-22-2009, 06:20 PM
"GULP".... i think we will shock the world this upcoming season and go 6-10!

Bronco Rob
05-22-2009, 06:25 PM
"GULP".... i think we will shock the world this upcoming season and go 6-10!

I realize we lost our QB and most of the coaching staff

BUT

C'MON! Give me a physical break!

Mike Nolan alone will help not to mention we have more RBs than season ticket holders to choose from....

Good grief.........

Hogan11
05-22-2009, 06:30 PM
Well, one thing you can't say about the Broncos this off-season is that they weren't active. I think I just developed carpal tunnel syndrome typing up the list of players they let drift off into free agency and the players they signed.

They addressed needs. I can't say whether or not they addressed them particularly well, but they were at least thorough. They looked at free agency like Noah looked at the animal kingdom when he built the ark. They needed two of everything.

The coaching staff and general manager are new, too. It's like owner Pat Bowlen lost his copy of the list of team employees and just said, "Ah, to hell with it, I'll just start over again."

It's really hard to envision the Broncos putting together a record of .500 or better next year. There are new systems being installed on both sides of the ball, and a huge amount of roster turnover. And, oh yeah, they got rid of their franchise quarterback, Jay Cutler, in favor of either Chris Simms or Kyle Orton, neither of whom are on what you'd call a Hall of Fame career path.

I saw last year's Broncos as a team that needed to upgrade their defense, and they'd be in business, as they had the offensive tools to be good for a very long time. Obviously, ownership felt differently, and decided that they had gone as far as they where going to go under Mike Shanahan and Cutler.

They felt like it was time for change, and they certainly have their change now. Maybe it'll pay off down the line, but it's hard to picture the 2009 Denver Broncos being much of a factor in the divisional race, even in a weak division.

Progress: It almost feels like Denver's an expansion team. Everything's brand new, and the focus maybe isn't on winning right now, but the next year or the year after that.

Minus 3 games. 8-8 last year, 5-11 this year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shutdown_corner/post/Offseason-progress-reports-Denver-Broncos;_ylt=A9G_bxrXTRdK5JsAeQdDubYF?urn=nfl,1651 02




LOL

"General Lee......I have no division"

Bronco Rob
05-22-2009, 06:34 PM
McDaniel's charge on AFC Westburg?!?

Hogan11
05-22-2009, 06:36 PM
McDaniel's charge on AFC Westburg?!?

For the glory of Colorado...form your brigade!!!

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 06:46 PM
His reasons are all based on straight forward logical analysis and predicting a 3 game slide seems not only reasonable but possibly overly optimistic. When you consider an entirely new coaching staff led by a rookie HC and a completely different system coupled with little attention paid to the D-line and the loss of Cutler, I'd say he's spot on.

The best hope for progress beyond this looks like Moreno and Hillis taking the ground game to an elite level from day one and establishing an offense that protects Orton from having to win games with his arm and keeps him from havng to play from behind all the time and throw the ball downfield. If we can dominate TOP and keep this D off the field, we'll be much better off and we might steal a couple wins. It will help if Ayers makes a splash from the beginning and at least one or two of the guys from last year step up like Larsen or Woodyard.

Cito Pelon
05-22-2009, 07:10 PM
His reasons are all based on straight forward logical analysis and predicting a 3 game slide seems not only reasonable but possibly overly optimistic. When you consider an entirely new coaching staff led by a rookie HC and a completely different system coupled with little attention paid to the D-line and the loss of Cutler, I'd say he's spot on.

The best hope for progress beyond this looks like Moreno and Hillis taking the ground game to an elite level from day one and establishing an offense that protects Orton from having to win games with his arm and keeps him from havng to play from behind all the time and throw the ball downfield. If we can dominate TOP and keep this D off the field, we'll be much better off and we might steal a couple wins. It will help if Ayers makes a splash from the beginning and at least one or two of the guys from last year step up like Larsen or Woodyard.

No, it's all speculation at this point. Total speculation.

TheReverend
05-22-2009, 07:29 PM
I call 5-11 optimistic in all honesty...

watermock
05-22-2009, 08:03 PM
No, it's all speculation at this point. Total speculation.

No, they are called PREDICTIONS.

SPECULATION was when we wondered if Cutler would be thrown away, if we would draft primarily for defense, and retain the Goodmans over a 100 name index card with no real GM.

We are in too weak a division not to win 6, with Moreno........

It's sad to read the general consensus of what's happened from independent sources, and as far as our draft, we did have THREE #1'S AND 2#3'S.

It wasn't that hard, we had a full slate before we traded our '10 first.

Just remember come April when those franchise players come up and we are sitting at 20 because Mcdummy didn't see any reason to quibble w/ Seattle. BTW, doesn't Seattle need a corner too?.

These are going to be realities.

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 08:12 PM
No, it's all speculation at this point. Total speculation.
Predictions are always speculative but that doesn't mean they can't be based on logic. What would you prefer they be based on...blind faith?

Cito Pelon
05-22-2009, 09:52 PM
I call 5-11 optimistic in all honesty...

Better to wait til the third preseason game is over before calling the season record.

telluride
05-22-2009, 10:04 PM
Man I'm getting tired of the Doomsayers. Both the print guys, and also the Watermock/27/etc. contingent.

They seem to have forgotten that even with their beloved Cutler and Shanny that we've been, on average, an 8-8 team for the past three years. It's not like anyone dismantled a Super Bowl squad.

We'll be as good as we were last year, or better. And two years from now, we'll be better off then we ever would have been had the status quo (and Shanny/Cutler) ruled.

TheReverend
05-22-2009, 10:08 PM
Better to wait til the third preseason game is over before calling the season record.

Meh.

I'm hoping Nolan is able to work some magic on the defense and that Knowshon is good enough to make Orton a viable football player, but take a long, hard look at this off-season and say it was a step forward... that I can't do. Was it three steps back to start moving forward? Hopefully, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if Seattle isn't picking top 5 in Denver's place.

Cito Pelon
05-22-2009, 10:49 PM
No, they are called PREDICTIONS.

SPECULATION was when we wondered if Cutler would be thrown away, if we would draft primarily for defense, and retain the Goodmans over a 100 name index card with no real GM.

We are in too weak a division not to win 6, with Moreno........

It's sad to read the general consensus of what's happened from independent sources, and as far as our draft, we did have THREE #1'S AND 2#3'S.

It wasn't that hard, we had a full slate before we traded our '10 first.

Just remember come April when those franchise players come up and we are sitting at 20 because Mcdummy didn't see any reason to quibble w/ Seattle. BTW, doesn't Seattle need a corner too?.

These are going to be realities.

Predictions are speculation. I'm not gonna get carried away one way or the other right now. I'll make a prediction after the 3rd preseason game. I'll wait for more info.

As for the draft, well, the one head-scratcher was Al Smith. Paid a heavy price for the guy. But, the D needed playmaker TO kind of guys real bad and Smith seems like he has some skills that will make TO's. It was certainly a cavalier kind of way to get the guy.

The two 3rds for Quinn I'm ok with. The team will carry 3 TE's and it seems like he has some chain-moving skills. Graham, Tony, Quinn seems like a fine combo of TE's.

I think overall in FA and the draft they did a great job of building the roster up. Dumping Cutler doesn't break my heart. Overrated dude. His character spells L-O-S-E-R.

Kaylore
05-22-2009, 11:31 PM
Things we lost


Cutler
Shanahan
Bates
Our crappy defensive coordinator
Many of our crappy defensive players.


Things we kept that were good

Our offensive line
Our receivers
Our tight ends
Hillis
Bailey


Things we added that are better

Mike Nolan
The rest of the defensive staff.
All our safeties are huge upgrades.
Andra Davis
The added depth at the running back position.


Things that have yet to be determined.


Our rookies
Moreno
McDaniels as a head coach.
McDaniels as a game-caller whilst juggling head coaching duties.
New scheme adjustment in terms of learning it.
New scheme adjustment in terms of having the right personnel to run it.


I don't really buy that we are taking a "giant step back" when we improved in a lot of areas and in the coaching department. Obviously our brutal schedule will be a factor. However I don't buy that we are so "clearly a 3-5 win team" as so many seem to believe.

Cito Pelon
05-22-2009, 11:33 PM
Meh.

I'm hoping Nolan is able to work some magic on the defense and that Knowshon is good enough to make Orton a viable football player, but take a long, hard look at this off-season and say it was a step forward... that I can't do. Was it three steps back to start moving forward? Hopefully, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if Seattle isn't picking top 5 in Denver's place.

Orton's already a viable football player. If he can get that pudgy body of his into shape he'll have a good run here.

Cito Pelon
05-23-2009, 12:04 AM
. . . . .McDaniels as a game-caller whilst juggling head coaching duties.. . . . ..

That's gonna be a problem. Bowlen better exercise his authority and rein the kid in some.

watermock
05-23-2009, 03:18 AM
I've never heard 3 win team. Our division sucks. We might lose 6 on the east coast tho.

watermock
05-23-2009, 03:27 AM
That's gonna be a problem. Bowlen better exercise his authority and rein the kid in some.

It's allready been a problem. The only thing bowlen has done is **** up Shanahans contract so he has to pay 20 million,and give a rookie the same powers.

After this draft no GM, the damage is done. You think Marshall is going to be here in'10?. Scheff?

The '06 draft will be ancient history by next year.

The Joker
05-23-2009, 03:54 AM
I see somewhere between 6-8 wins, in all honesty.

The addition of Moreno will help offset the downgrade at the QB position, as an offense we'll be worse than last season but not as bad as some seem to think. We'll still move the ball decently, and I think we'll be better in the redzone.

On D we can't help but improve. I'm not sure Nolan is a great DC, but he's at least a competent one. We'll still suck against the run I reckon, but the upgraded secondary and the presence of a DC who might actually call a good play now and then will make us better on 3rd down and get us off the field now and then.

Overall I think this years group will be a better team than last years group, but with the schedule we'll be doing well to record an 8-8 again.

kappys
05-23-2009, 04:22 PM
I see 8 wins +/- 2 again because our division is the worst in football. The Raiders still suck and I'm very skeptical that the Chiefs will put a solid team tgether(though they will be improved from last year).

Bob's your Information Minister
05-23-2009, 04:39 PM
we have more RBs than season ticket holders to choose from....


You act like that's a good thing.

TheReverend
05-23-2009, 07:44 PM
Orton's already a viable football player. If he can get that pudgy body of his into shape he'll have a good run here.

<---Is just gonna disagree with this one.

It'd be awesome if you're right, though.

broncogary
05-23-2009, 08:11 PM
Heck, probably six games a year for each team come down to the last few minutes. If we can perform in crunch-time, we have a chance to win ten games.

Atlas
05-23-2009, 09:46 PM
I call 5-11 optimistic in all honesty...

Denver will finish last in the AFC West. It's a good think Denver traded their top ten pick for a 2nd round CB.

eddie mac
05-23-2009, 09:54 PM
11 wins for us and a horror show from Golden Balls in Chicago. Mark it down.

ColoradoDarin
05-23-2009, 10:13 PM
Lets all get worked up over a hack article written by a hack who just read a few other articles and did no actual research.

"but but but, he agrees with me, therefore, BRILLIANT"

or

"but but but, he doesn't agree with me, therefore, IDIOT"

watermock
05-23-2009, 10:42 PM
11 wins for us and a horror show from Golden Balls in Chicago. Mark it down.


Got it. Willing to wager on those 11 wins?

Drek
05-24-2009, 08:27 AM
Quick summary of this opinion article:

The Broncos will lose five more games because they cut a bunch of guys no one else in the league wants, fired a bunch of coaches no one else in the league is willing to employ at the same positions they where performing here, and brought in guys who've had success at the roles they are filling for us.

Brilliant work there. I love seeing all the doom and gloomers buying into it too. We changed defense both of the last two years, once when Shanahan hired a capable DC and bailed on the guy part way into the season, and again when a guy who should never be allowed to get beyond a DB coach was allowed to run the show. Now we've got an HC who is giving a legitimate DC a chance to build a defense that suits our talent, but suddenly its going to get worse? It doesn't get worse than the crap Shanahan let Slowik field last year.

We're better at every single position with the lone exception of QB. Everywhere else we improved in at least some small measure. At a few key areas of weakness (RB and DB) we took significant steps forward. We've got a lot of young talent, and now we've brought in capable veteran leadership to help them. But yeah, there is no way we could do better than 5-11, despite playing in an incredibly weak division.

By the end of the '09 season a lot of people will be eating crow around here, the NFC East won't seem like nearly as tough a schedule draw, and the Broncos will be competing for the division with an offense in the top 10 in both yardage and points, paired with a defense that will be back in the middle tier of the league and actually be able to mitigate damage from the running game.

Bronco Rob
05-24-2009, 08:42 AM
Quick summary of this opinion article:

The Broncos will lose five more games because they cut a bunch of guys no one else in the league wants, fired a bunch of coaches no one else in the league is willing to employ at the same positions they where performing here, and brought in guys who've had success at the roles they are filling for us.

Brilliant work there. I love seeing all the doom and gloomers buying into it too. We changed defense both of the last two years, once when Shanahan hired a capable DC and bailed on the guy part way into the season, and again when a guy who should never be allowed to get beyond a DB coach was allowed to run the show. Now we've got an HC who is giving a legitimate DC a chance to build a defense that suits our talent, but suddenly its going to get worse? It doesn't get worse than the crap Shanahan let Slowik field last year.

We're better at every single position with the lone exception of QB. Everywhere else we improved in at least some small measure. At a few key areas of weakness (RB and DB) we took significant steps forward. We've got a lot of young talent, and now we've brought in capable veteran leadership to help them. But yeah, there is no way we could do better than 5-11, despite playing in an incredibly weak division.

By the end of the '09 season a lot of people will be eating crow around here, the NFC East won't seem like nearly as tough a schedule draw, and the Broncos will be competing for the division with an offense in the top 10 in both yardage and points, paired with a defense that will be back in the middle tier of the league and actually be able to mitigate damage from the running game.




:thumbs:

ScottXray
05-24-2009, 09:14 AM
Gotta agree that the Doom and Gloom crowd have some points, but I
don't think the team is going to be Horrible just because there are a lot of unknowns. Yeah there is a lot of turnover in coaches , scheme and personnel, but overall, McD seems to have a plan to get players that WANT to be here, WANT to play, WANT to improve, and WANT to be Winners at the end of games and the end of the season. Not just guys that WANT to be paid and relax on the couch. He does have a good resume for game days, and whether he wears a hoody or a business suit, If he wins Who the H*** cares!

If McD instills just ONE thing the team will be better, and that is an attitude that losing is NOT acceptable, and the players that PLAY the best will be the ones that Play on Sundays, not favorites that are good in practice , but fail to show up Game day. TEAM first, then worry about the stats. Play to win, not get through this problem or that one for this game.

The Schedule is going to be tough, but I think that the team will FINISH games, especially later on in the year. If we are not in too deep a hole (W-L) after the first 8 games, then we have a shot to go to the playoffs this year. If we are at least .500 after the first 8 then we have a GOOD chance.
Unfortunately we have to wait until then to see what the record is

There hasn't been a snap, or ball moved , outside of practice yet. We won't KNOW anything until after a couple of Pre-season games at least.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-24-2009, 09:29 AM
And to think that none of this would likely have happened if they didn't choke away the last 3 games of the season...

Borks147
05-24-2009, 10:45 AM
And to think that none of this would likely have happened if they didn't choke away the last 3 games of the season...

if Shanny had beaten the RAIDERS at HOME, none of this would have happened. That is the irony in this situation.

Cito Pelon
05-24-2009, 11:43 AM
if Shanny had beaten the RAIDERS at HOME, none of this would have happened. That is the irony in this situation.

Or the Bills.

It's a bit funny some of us were saying last year when the season started it may come down to the last game of the season at San Diego.

But, yeah, beating the Raiders at home could have made all the difference, so yes that's ironic.

DarkHorse
05-24-2009, 11:46 AM
Let's not forget we have a brutal schedule this year.

Pseudofool
05-24-2009, 11:49 AM
Things that will improve:
Secondary (Everyone simply ignores this point when they examine how we've addressed the defense, and we've improve here manifold).
Special Teams
Running Game (Analyst seem to ignore this, as well, and even count it as a minus since we signed so many RBs)


Things that will likely be worse:
Passing Game (The long ball specifically, but beyond that I don't think we'll see a huge drop off here)
Playmaking from QB (We can't count on Orton/Simms to make plays on their own)

Things that will likely be just as bad:
Interior Defense of line (Our lack of DE and DT depth hurt, but we've been horrible here for years).
Run Defense (yipes, but we won't give the long run like we did last year with the improved secondary)

Things I think that will improve but no one is talking about:
Redzone Offense (Adding Quinn and Moreno, and having a QB who won't do too much)
Pass Rush (Ayers, Dumervil, and the general scheme will help here).
Line backing (addition by subtraction, mostly, and scheme).
Turn over Ratio (Risk adverse QBs, along with much improved secondary)

Of course this is a bit of homerism, but the notion that we some how got worse is absurd. I see either a mediocre (7/8 wins) or a descent one (9/10 wins), but I can't see us losing more than nine games, even with our tough schedule.

TheReverend
05-24-2009, 11:55 AM
Things that will improve:
Secondary (Everyone simply ignores this point when they examine how we've addressed the defense, and we've improve here manifold).

Just sayin...

Drek
05-25-2009, 05:04 AM
Let's not forget we have a brutal schedule this year.

We've got no idea how the schedule will actually play out.

What I see is a team getting a pretty soft start of it. On the road to Cincy for the opener, home with Cleveland week 2, then to Oakland for our first of two with them. We then cap the first quarter of the season with the Cowboys at home.

Cincy is a very winnable game. For all our defensive problems last year they weren't much better. We still have a ton of offensive fire power whereas they just lost Houshmandzadeh and will be starting a rookie at LT. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we look surprisingly good in that game.

Cleveland at home, another team that is just about as bad as us on D, and also making adjustments to system and personnel overhauls. Another should win game.

Oakland in Oakland, last year early in the season we threw a smoke show on them at their house. I think its entirely possible we do it again because they have nothing at WR, a still quesitonable OL, and underperformers across the D except for at corner. Should be a field day for our much improved running game, and the first step to the consistent divisional success against our pushover regional rivals.

Dallas is a very questionable team to me. Their OL showed some real signs of age last year and I don't really see any upgrades made to it. Is Roy Williams a standout WR or was he just padding stats on bad Lions teams all those years? Will the D get it together to be something more than the Demarcus Ware show, giving up big plays if Ware isn't making the stops? Them coming to Denver makes me think that if we've gotten a 3-0 or 2-1 start we're looking at a highly winnable game to cap the firs quarter of the season at 4-0 or 3-1.

It goes into a tough run after that, but our hardest out of division games are home games (NE, Pitt, NYG) and we travel for teams that are very good candidates for a sophomore slump (Baltimore with Flacco) or their annual "new FA under performs" routine (Washington).

All in all I think the safe estimate would be that over the season's four quarters break down as 3-1/1-3/2-2/2-2, putting us at 8-8 again. If the team takes momentum from a hot start into the second quarter though we could steal a game or two there (not to mention its when we have our bye). Should that happen the D will begin playing more more confidence and familiarity for the second half of the season and we might actually begin beat some tough opponents.

SureShot
05-25-2009, 06:34 AM
I still don't see how we are going to stop the run. D-line is ignored yet again.

Liquid Courage
05-25-2009, 06:41 AM
Let's not forget we have a brutal schedule this year.

And here is where that brutal schedule lies in comparison to other teams based upon win %. based on this, it doesn't seem near as bad as I had otherwise assumed it to be. and also note where the Bears are . . . .

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_2734_Dolphins_top_2009_strength-of-schedule_list.html

rastaman
05-25-2009, 07:12 AM
Orton's already a viable football player. If he can get that pudgy body of his into shape he'll have a good run here.

Kyle is who he is! Orton could come into training camp with 10% body fat and you won't see anything that much different than what you saw in Chicago. You barely win playoff games or SB(s) for that matter with QB's with the claiber of Orton.

Now I think we all agree Orton is a stop gap career journeyman QB. Nothing to get excited about. In fact, how many jersey's have has Orton sold as a Bronco? The realistic Bronco fans already know that Orton has a lot to prove......we won't get our hopes up for a Journeyman QB in a rebuilding mode for the next few seasons

Lets not get our hopes up folks and hunker down and hope for 6-8 wins this season and breath a sigh of relief. Lastly, let hope and pray Denver isn't about to embark upon drafting in the top 5 for the next 5 years!

rastaman
05-25-2009, 07:23 AM
Better to wait til the third preseason game is over before calling the season record.

Preseasons prove little. The starters play one quarter at best (for fear of injury), then you have rookies and FA trying to make the team; come the regular season, the FA's and lowly draft picks are long gone by September anyway.

rastaman
05-25-2009, 08:01 AM
Quick summary of this opinion article:

The Broncos will lose five more games because they cut a bunch of guys no one else in the league wants, fired a bunch of coaches no one else in the league is willing to employ at the same positions they where performing here, and brought in guys who've had success at the roles they are filling for us.

Brilliant work there. I love seeing all the doom and gloomers buying into it too. We changed defense both of the last two years, once when Shanahan hired a capable DC and bailed on the guy part way into the season, and again when a guy who should never be allowed to get beyond a DB coach was allowed to run the show. Now we've got an HC who is giving a legitimate DC a chance to build a defense that suits our talent, but suddenly its going to get worse? It doesn't get worse than the crap Shanahan let Slowik field last year.

We're better at every single position with the lone exception of QB. Everywhere else we improved in at least some small measure. At a few key areas of weakness (RB and DB) we took significant steps forward. We've got a lot of young talent, and now we've brought in capable veteran leadership to help them. But yeah, there is no way we could do better than 5-11, despite playing in an incredibly weak division.

By the end of the '09 season a lot of people will be eating crow around here, the NFC East won't seem like nearly as tough a schedule draw, and the Broncos will be competing for the division with an offense in the top 10 in both yardage and points, paired with a defense that will be back in the middle tier of the league and actually be able to mitigate damage from the running game.

Yeah right Derk! You are assuming everything goes perfect this season especially injury wise. Face it dude, Miracle McDaniel's will get the benefit of the doubt and apologist excuses all season long----perhaps even for the next 4 years.

We haven't seen any excuses come flowing in should McD suffer the bad luck of not having a running attack due to injuries or let alone should McD go into the last 3 weeks of the season with his running attack decimated by season ending injuries like Shanny had to endure! Lets hope McD doesn't have to face the adversity of juggling his OL because of injuries all season long the way Shanny did in 2007. Boy imagine all the apologist who would come to the aide of Orton and McDaniel's b/c they had no FREAKING running attack or the OL was decimated by injuries!

I expect to see pure hypocrisy and blind faith loyalty from the McD fans, plain and simple. The McD fans have lowered the bar of expectation when it comes to McDaniel's first 4 years in-comparison to what Shanahan achieved in his first 4 years. Why the blind faith and loyalty towards an egotistical--integrity challenged 32 year old unproven ROOKIE head coach is beyond me.

If McD doesn't go 46-18 regular season, 7-1 playoffs and SB, and consecutive SB victories in his first 4 years!!! Then he has under achieved! Hell, I'd be impressed if McD achieved this record in 6 or 8 seasons as the Bronco's head coach.

Let the excuses begin!!!!

peacepipe
05-25-2009, 08:53 AM
I'm not making Orton to be more than what he is, but with the protection he'll be getting with our O-line it will interesting to see how he plays.

bpc
05-25-2009, 09:18 AM
I see Orton/starting QB hitting 20 Td's, 15 INT's and around 3200-3500 yds with a emphasis on the passing game primarily out of the backfield.

HB game should be tough and gritty, something we've lacked since before Peyton Hillis got here. I hope both he and Moreno can stay healthy. That's what i'm worried about. If they do this will be an underrated unit.

WR's are in transition. BMarsh coming off a minor/major surgery on his hip. Eddie Royal doesn't have a QB with a strong enough arm to go deep. On most defenses. Hopefully he lines up in the slot and we allow him to go Wes Welker on teams. This team lacks true deep ball WR's even with Royal. His productivity IMO is centered between 5-20 yds and probably will be for his career. Stokely is going to fall off this year IMO.

OL should be good which is good which is why I think that the QB position will be on the plus side of the TD/INT ratio.

DL is mostly in transition. I think Powell starts at NT. It will be interesting to see if Marcus Thomas fits on this team. I think he's a 4-3 DT and thats it. DE does not suit him.

LB's are average. I hope that Dumervil can make the transition to OLB. I see some similarities in size to James Harrison. Ayers will be interesting to watch. He had some great attributes coming out from college but his primary move, the bull rush will be negated by much better technicians on the next level. We need more players here. Moss and Crowder look like they are busts.

DB positions should be improved but I think we got some older vet players with limited upside and signed them to longer contracts like the two guys from Miami. It will be interesting to see if McBath and Smith can steal starting time from any of these guys. Still, with the weak defensive front seven we have, it will be the same story this year as teams will probably run at will on us and we don't have enough impact pass rushers to keep opposing QB's from setting up in the backfield for 5 seconds and waiting for WR's to get open.

This team will have a few bright spots but not enough. I think KC/Oakland and Denver will all be bad this year. That should at least give us a split with those two. SD is far superior on offense and defense. They'll sweep us. We play against the NFC East and a host of other quality squads. I would consider it a achievement if we could get to 6-10. 5-11 is more realistic.

Worst of all we'll have a top 5 pick and we won't get a key cornerstone for our squad on offense or defense because our rookie head coach couldn't keep his d!ck in his pants during his first NFL draft. That will haunt us moving forward.

Hulamau
05-25-2009, 09:47 AM
Things we lost


Cutler
Shanahan
Bates
Our crappy defensive coordinator
Many of our crappy defensive players.


Things we kept that were good

Our offensive line
Our receivers
Our tight ends
Hillis
Bailey


Things we added that are better

Mike Nolan
The rest of the defensive staff.
All our safeties are huge upgrades.
Andra Davis
The added depth at the running back position.


Things that have yet to be determined.


Our rookies
Moreno
McDaniels as a head coach.
McDaniels as a game-caller whilst juggling head coaching duties.
New scheme adjustment in terms of learning it.
New scheme adjustment in terms of having the right personnel to run it.


I don't really buy that we are taking a "giant step back" when we improved in a lot of areas and in the coaching department. Obviously our brutal schedule will be a factor. However I don't buy that we are so "clearly a 3-5 win team" as so many seem to believe.

Good take Khan, I'm on board ...

Lolad
05-25-2009, 11:42 AM
Man I'm getting tired of the Doomsayers. Both the print guys, and also the Watermock/27/etc. contingent.

They seem to have forgotten that even with their beloved Cutler and Shanny that we've been, on average, an 8-8 team for the past three years. It's not like anyone dismantled a Super Bowl squad.

We'll be as good as we were last year, or better. And two years from now, we'll be better off then we ever would have been had the status quo (and Shanny/Cutler) ruled.

the thing about it. If we are not better then last year.. This season was a failure, you just don't want to admit it. EVERYBODY and their baby said if we improved on defense we would be going to the playoffs for sure. Another year in the same system on offense would've made us that much better.

If Mcdaniels doesn't win more than 8 games he's an idiot and so is Bowlen! You call us doomsayers but yet you guys wont even concede that your looking for nothing but progress on defense. We can go 6-10 for all your concerned as long as the defense is somewhere near #15 overall