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Mr.Meanie
05-21-2009, 11:12 PM
CHICAGO -- For those compelled by precision, for those looking for the exact moment when the Jay Cutler hype machine clicked into overdrive in Chicago, I propose May 17, 2009, at 1:40 p.m.

Coming off a Pro Bowl season, Jay Cutler has Bears fans dreaming.At that exact moment this past Sunday, Chicago Bears play-by-play man Jeff Joniak grabbed a microphone at the team's annual fan convention and formally introduced the new quarterback to a fan base long in search of its savior.

Some clapped; others yelled. Some pulled out their cell phones; others pulled out their digital cameras. Young and old, male and female, it didn't matter. From grandmas to baby girls, from frat boys to business execs, everyone wanted to see the hero, everyone wanted to hear him speak. With each passing second, more and more fans squeezed closer and closer to the stage. It was as if Cutler were John, Paul, George and Ringo all rolled into one.

And in a way, he is. That's what happens when a franchise that hasn't had a franchise quarterback in half a century mortgages its entire future on the right arm of a 26-year-old Pro Bowl answer.

"Anytime a team wants to make a trade like that and give up what [the Bears] gave up, there's going to be a lot of pressure and a lot of high expectations," Cutler said Wednesday. "And I welcome it. It's going to be fun. It's going to be a good challenge."

It has been 49 days since Chicago shocked the NFL world and dealt two first-round picks, a third-round choice and quarterback Kyle Orton to Denver in exchange for Cutler, and at this point, the honeymoon is in full swing. Although Cutler has spent the past six weeks working with offensive coordinator Ron Turner and his new receivers, this week has been his official coming-out party. On Sunday, he officially spoke to Bears fans for the first time, and Wednesday marked the Bears' first organized team activity of the offseason, allowing Cutler to shine in seven-on-seven drills while the Chicago media took its first look at No. 6.

At the Bears Expo on Sunday, general manager Jerry Angelo referred to the Cutler addition as "divine intervention." Team president Ted Phillips told Bears fans, "The energy level in the office, with the players and staff has never been at a higher level in the 26 years I've been at the club." Even the typically stoic Lovie Smith is drinking the orange and blue Kool-Aid, saying, "Spirit is at an all-time high," while joking, "I think it's safe to say that Jay Cutler is our quarterback."

After Wednesday's OTA, the praise continued.

Cutler was the center of attention at Wednesday's workout."That arm strength -- I've never been around someone like that before," Turner said.

"His athleticism, the way he moves, it's like he has been playing quarterback since he was 3 years old," receiver Devin Hester added.

Cutler grew up a Bears fan in tiny Santa Claus, Ind., so he's well aware the team started 21 quarterbacks during the Brett Favre era in Green Bay. He's well aware the team hasn't had a true franchise quarterback since Hall of Famer Sid Luckman in the 1940s. He's well aware of the toddler-sized shoes he's trying to fill.

But no athlete in recent memory has come to this city with greater expectations. Not Albert Belle, Alfonso Soriano, Patrick Kane. Nobody. According to the Bears' media relations department, the team sold more than 1,500 Cutler jerseys in the first four days after the trade. That's more than all the Brian Urlacher, Hester and Matt Forte jerseys sold in 2008.

Jeff Dickerson of ESPN Radio 1000 was on hand for Chicago's OTA workouts this week, and he offers complete coverage on his Bears blog.

Listen to enough of those Bears fans, and you get the feeling Cutler is expected to not only lead the team to the Super Bowl, but also balance the state budget, fix the city's parking meter privatization mess and hit a few Game 7 World Series home runs for the Cubs.

Move over, Barack Obama. This is the audacity of hope. Jay Cutler solves all. Yes We Can. Yes, we can have defensive linemen who get to the opposing quarterback. Yes, we can have safeties who make plays. Yes, we can have a perfectly thrown spiral that, if you listen closely enough, you can hear whistle on a 20-yard out pattern. In Jay We Trust.

"I think we've created a bit of a buzz," Cutler said. "The expectations are pretty high right now, but the fans and the players -- we're all looking forward to the ride."

That ride won't officially begin until the Bears travel to Green Bay on Sept. 13. In the meantime, Cutler is spending his free time throwing to his receivers and watching film with Turner. The two go back and forth, watching Bears tape so Cutler can get an idea of what the team likes to do and then watching Broncos tape so Turner can get an idea of where Cutler excels. Although Turner said there won't be any new plays tailored specifically around Cutler's strong arm or mobility in the pocket, he definitely will be diving into sections of the Bears' playbook where they've never gone in the past.

New Bears quarterback Jay Cutler speaks after his first practice with Chicago.

"When he started throwing that first day, it was like, 'Whoa,'" Turner said. "It's not a knock against Kyle [Orton] or Rex [Grossman] or anybody else. But when Jay is out there, it's like a different level."

Cutler, to this point, seems to love the attention, thriving in the spotlight. He has thrown out the first pitch at a Cubs game, dropped the puck at the Blackhawks' playoff opener and given gossips plenty to talk about by exploring the ins and outs of city night life with his new teammates.

Although the expectations would be unfair for even Joe Montana or Dan Marino, Cutler just might be up to it. He's part swagger. Part smug. And all quarterback. At the Bears Expo, he confidently pushed all the right buttons and played perfectly to the crowd. He predicted the Bears would win the season opener against Green Bay and "knows" they will make the playoffs.

When one fan asked whether he had started to develop a hatred for the Packers, Cutler laughed and then said, "I've never really liked them." When another fan wanted to know whether he had begun recording a new "Super Bowl Shuffle," he quipped, "Orlando [Pace] is in the process of choreographing that whole deal. We're just waiting for him to finalize it."

Then there was the little boy who wanted to know how many touchdowns Cutler plans to throw this season.

"How many do you want?" Cutler responded, knowing his career high is 25.

"Thirty," the boy said.

"We can probably get you 30," Cutler said. "I don't think that's going to be a problem."

The new quarterback even staunchly defended his teammates. When one fan began asking whether a quarterback makes his receivers better or vice versa, Cutler stopped the fan before he had a chance to finish.

"You're worried about our wide receivers a little bit? Let me put you at ease," Cutler said, before explaining how the Broncos' Brandon Marshall and Eddie Royal were relative unknowns before their arrival in Denver. "Receiving-wise, we've got what we need here. You don't need to worry about it."

Of course, none of this really matters. He can say all the right things. He can do all the right things. But it's irrelevant. The adoration of the fans, the first OTA, the circus that is likely to surround training camp come July -- at the end of the day, it is all irrelevant. Nothing matters until Cutler steps onto the field that September Sunday in Green Bay. That's when the touchdowns and interceptions will start to count. And that's when it will be wins and losses -- and not words -- that will determine how long this love affair lasts.

Until then, Cutler is enjoying the honeymoon. When asked by a female fan Sunday about his impression of Chicago women thus far, the quarterback-turned-rock star didn't skip a beat.

"Good city. Good women. I'm single, so I could get in a little bit of trouble."

Wayne Drehs is a senior writer for ESPN.com and ESPNChicago.com. He can be reached at wayne.drehs@espn3.com. Follow Wayne on Twitter at ESPNWayneDrehs.


http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/columns/story?columnist=drehs_wayne&id=4192431


Did Cutler seriously just take credit for creating Marshall and Royal?

broncocalijohn
05-21-2009, 11:21 PM
Might seem that way but i didnt see an exact and direct quote from him. We drafted those guys pretty high based on what they did in college not what MIGHT happen thanks to Cutler. Like mentioned, they are drinking the Cutler Koolaid just like the Obama zombies.

BroncoBuff
05-21-2009, 11:21 PM
If he meant that the way is sounds, I will break up with him.

watermock
05-21-2009, 11:25 PM
I think it's hillarious.

BTW, he's playing for less than Simms, and is signed thru 2011.

mhgaffney
05-21-2009, 11:31 PM
OK. But Obama supporters are not the only zombies in America. The phenomenon is non partisan.

Before Obama it was Bush kool aid -- which had a distinctly bitter taste as I recall.

Taco John
05-21-2009, 11:39 PM
It is true that Marshall and Royal were unknowns before Cutler put them on the map. This is going to be a big year for both of them to prove that they can do it without the strong-armed, risk-taking gunslinger. I think they both have shown that they have it in them. I'm less worried about Eddie Royal than I am about Marshall. Brandon just doesn't seem to have his head screwed on straight.

broncocalijohn
05-21-2009, 11:44 PM
OK. But Obama supporters are not the only zombies in America. The phenomenon is non partisan.

Before Obama it was Bush kool aid -- which had a distinctly bitter taste as I recall.

I will take a guess you use the search option as you sprung to the actual Broncos part of the website when you saw something that was a partial political stab. Go back to the War room or to your bat cave and make that follow up book to the one that nobody read.

Hulamau
05-21-2009, 11:45 PM
If he meant that the way is sounds, I will break up with him.

He Did ... and he's an arrogant prick .. period!

Here's the bottomline:

"Of course, none of this really matters. He can say all the right things. He can do all the right things. But it's irrelevant. The adoration of the fans, the first OTA, the circus that is likely to surround training camp come July -- at the end of the day, it is all irrelevant. Nothing matters until Cutler steps onto the field that September Sunday in Green Bay. That's when the touchdowns and interceptions will start to count. And that's when it will be wins and losses -- and not words -- that will determine how long this love affair lasts."

Hulamau
05-21-2009, 11:50 PM
Cutler was the center of attention at Wednesday's workout."That arm strength -- I've never been around someone like that before," Turner said.

Turner's acting like a 15 year old girl .. I'm sure he's never seen anything like it, and probably has no idea what to do with it either!

If Jay was just a borderline budding toxic Narcissist until now, this ass-kissing adventure is surely gonna push him over the edge.

~Crash~
05-21-2009, 11:52 PM
If he meant that the way is sounds, I will break up with him.

I bet cutler loses sleep at night thinking man I should be nice to broncos fans....he is a bear . I think he probably don't give a **** about the broncos or there lying ass of a owner .

Kaylore
05-21-2009, 11:53 PM
Um, Royal gets open and is hard to cover. That has nothing to do with Jay Cutler. Marshall has been dinged up and has the brain of a tube worm. However most of his big plays were yards after the catch, which again has nothing to do with Cutler. I think they helped each other tremendously. This is just wishful thinking by the writer who is concerned about his receiving corps and wants to pretend they're just as good there as they are here.

I would be more worried about their offensive line.

~Crash~
05-21-2009, 11:58 PM
Um, Royal gets open and is hard to cover. That has nothing to do with Jay Cutler. Marshall has been dinged up and has the brain of a tube worm. However most of his big plays were yards after the catch, which again has nothing to do with Cutler. I think they helped each other tremendously. This is just wishful thinking by the writer who is concerned about his receiving corps and wants to pretend they're just as good there as they are here.

I would be more worried about their offensive line.

If williams is health he will have a darn fine LT

Hulamau
05-21-2009, 11:59 PM
If williams is health he will have a darn fine LT

Ancient Olando Pace is left tackle by default, Williams is RT if his back holds up.

SouthStndJunkie
05-22-2009, 12:00 AM
At some point and time the Cutler haters are going to have to stop posting every single article that pertains to him....there will be hundreds of articles.

The Bears should be happy. They have their franchise QB. Of course they are going to drool over their investment. If the trade were reversed and we traded for Cutler this offseason this board would be blow banging him left and right.

Hulamau
05-22-2009, 12:03 AM
At the Bears Expo on Sunday, general manager Jerry Angelo referred to the Cutler addition as "divine intervention."

Okay Jerry you can get off your knees and wipe that off your lip, Jay's done now and he's happy.

Pick Six
05-22-2009, 12:04 AM
Cutler was very lucky that Marshall caught some of those balls in double and triple coverage. It's more like Brandon Marshall made the legend of Jay Cutler...

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 12:18 AM
I doubt his comment has anytihng to do with him saying that he made Marshall and Royal. Look at the context...the fan asked a question indicating he was concerned about their talent at receiver, and he pointed out that Denver had young receivers when he started here. Look at Chicago's roster...they have 4 rookie recievers and 2 second year guys. Earl Bennet, who Cutler played with at Vandy is the SEC's all time leading receiver. All he's saying is that they have young talent on the roster just like we did when he got here.

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 12:43 AM
Ancient Olando Pace is left tackle by default, Williams is RT if his back holds up.
"Ancient" Orlando Pace is 33...the same age Matt Lepsis was two years ago when most of this board was insisting we didn't need to bother drafting his replacement since he had plenty left in the tank. I don't recall Lepsis being a 5 time All Pro or 7 pro bowl appearances either. Offensive linemen play a long time. A better comparison might be to Gary Zimmerman, who DID make All Pro 5 times...and as I remember he did pretty well here until he retired at age 36...3 years older than Pace.

telluride
05-22-2009, 12:47 AM
Who's Jay Cutler?

Pseudofool
05-22-2009, 12:57 AM
I doubt his comment has anytihng to do with him saying that he made Marshall and Royal. Look at the context...the fan asked a question indicating he was concerned about their talent at receiver, and he pointed out that Denver had young receivers when he started here. Look at Chicago's roster...they have 4 rookie recievers and 2 second year guys. Earl Bennet, who Cutler played with at Vandy is the SEC's all time leading receiver. All he's saying is that they have young talent on the roster just like we did when he got here.Sure. But you can't deprive me of my hate for Cutler.

cutthemdown
05-22-2009, 01:09 AM
So now he has thrown the fans, and the women of Denver under the bus. Actually Royal was projected to go about where he did. He tore it up at the combine. Marshall set records at his school.

Hester a converted dback and it shows in how he runs his routes and his hands.

Cutler is ultra cocky and confident though we all know that. He can throw a pick and he will come back and try same throw again, and often complete it.

Also if Bennet good why did he show absolutely nothing in his rookie yr.

Usually you at least get some flashes from a guy in his rookie yr. I'd be surprised if all the sudden Bennett plays well. Royal you could tell he had it first game he played.

If Bennett as good as Royal, and Hester can become a converted WR and play like Marshall then Bears in good shape. I just both of those as pretty big ifs.

I'd say both those ifs as big as me saying Doom and Moss will kick ass at OLB.

Doom=Hester Both have made some plays, but have to learn new position
Moss=Bennet Both drafted and did nothing yet.

watermock
05-22-2009, 01:17 AM
People act like Da Bears are going to contend next year. Jay is signed thru 2011. They don't have a couple draft picks next ear, SO WHAT? It's an UNCAPPED YEAR IN 2010. They can go after whoever they want.

It's DENVER that will need to sign a QB, god you people are simple.

I'd be more worried about Denver. Our "savior" is a FA next spring. and since we spent our #1 on Sith, we won't be able to pick and choose in a stronger draft.

It's funny how people here think this somehow was Cutler abandoning Denver.

Oh yeah, he's going to hold out....morons...he's playing for his favorite team, and they can always trade him...Ha!

cutthemdown
05-22-2009, 01:37 AM
People act like Da Bears are going to contend next year. Jay is signed thru 2011. They don't have a couple draft picks next ear, SO WHAT? It's an UNCAPPED YEAR IN 2010. They can go after whoever they want.

It's DENVER that will need to sign a QB, god you people are simple.

I'd be more worried about Denver. Our "savior" is a FA next spring. and since we spent our #1 on Sith, we won't be able to pick and choose in a stronger draft.

It's funny how people here think this somehow was Cutler abandoning Denver.

Oh yeah, he's going to hold out....morons...he's playing for his favorite team, and they can always trade him...Ha!

Actually less players available in an uncapped yr because they have to have over 5 yrs service (or something like that) Also an uncapped yr means no minimum either and many expect if it gets to an uncapped yr teams will spend less.

Cutler has tons of yrs to win. Bears got a QB you can build around, there is no doubt.

Cutler just looks puffy in the face now though. I was looking at college pics of him and his face isn't puffy.

Blueflame
05-22-2009, 01:55 AM
Know what? A WR's numbers are directly related to his QB's numbers.

ZONA
05-22-2009, 02:15 AM
Kinda of a misleading post actually. Cutler said nothing to the likes of any notion that he created Royal and Marshall. When it works, it works. Both QB and WR have to do their jobs in order for it to work. The notion that one makes the other is silly.

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 02:21 AM
So now he has thrown the fans, and the women of Denver under the bus. Actually Royal was projected to go about where he did. He tore it up at the combine. Marshall set records at his school.

Hester a converted dback and it shows in how he runs his routes and his hands.

Cutler is ultra cocky and confident though we all know that. He can throw a pick and he will come back and try same throw again, and often complete it.

Also if Bennet good why did he show absolutely nothing in his rookie yr.

Usually you at least get some flashes from a guy in his rookie yr. I'd be surprised if all the sudden Bennett plays well. Royal you could tell he had it first game he played.

If Bennett as good as Royal, and Hester can become a converted WR and play like Marshall then Bears in good shape. I just both of those as pretty big ifs.

I'd say both those ifs as big as me saying Doom and Moss will kick ass at OLB.

Doom=Hester Both have made some plays, but have to learn new position
Moss=Bennet Both drafted and did nothing yet.
Rod Smith was on his last legs when Cutler got here and Walker got hurt the next year and had only 5 starts. The Bears are better at TE and RB than the 2006 Broncos were. The real point is that nobody knows how players in the draft are going to step up.

How did Cutler throw the women of Denver under the bus? I must have missed this one.

cutthemdown
05-22-2009, 03:09 AM
Rod Smith was on his last legs when Cutler got here and Walker got hurt the next year and had only 5 starts. The Bears are better at TE and RB than the 2006 Broncos were. The real point is that nobody knows how players in the draft are going to step up.

How did Cutler throw the women of Denver under the bus? I must have missed this one.

LOL by making a comment about the women in Chicago being so great. Then what I do is use my hate and anger to generate a negative comment. Being somewhat creative it comes easy for me. I guess the musician in my appreciates being able to read between the eyes.

Like when Cutler says trust me the WR are good enough.......... I see......I am so good you could put an WR out there and we will rock.

Greg Olson is a good target but I wonder how happy Cutler will be handing the ball off a lot if they play conservative. I'm looking forward to see if he develops further this offseason.

He needed to work on his deep ball, not the outs, but the 9 routes where the WR will catch ball over the shoulder. His accuracy this past yr was bad, and had it been better we would have one the Bills game.

Also once again his ball handling was poor, couple fumbles lost, couple that should have been, got bailed out on a bad call etc.

I'm looking forward to the first time he scrambles and how he holds ball past the LOS.

elsid13
05-22-2009, 03:20 AM
People are overreacting (again). Cutler was saying that neither Marshall or Royal were house hold names when they were drafted. Freaking half of you were pissed they drafted Royal last season.

frerottenextelway
05-22-2009, 03:46 AM
Actually less players available in an uncapped yr because they have to have over 5 yrs service (or something like that) Also an uncapped yr means no minimum either and many expect if it gets to an uncapped yr teams will spend less.

Cutler has tons of yrs to win. Bears got a QB you can build around, there is no doubt.

Cutler just looks puffy in the face now though. I was looking at college pics of him and his face isn't puffy.

Teams w/ owners struggling w/ their pocketbook may spend less. Chicago won't.

elsid13
05-22-2009, 03:57 AM
He needed to work on his deep ball, not the outs, but the 9 routes where the WR will catch ball over the shoulder. His accuracy this past yr was bad, and had it been better we would have one the Bills game.

Also once again his ball handling was poor, couple fumbles lost, couple that should have been, got bailed out on a bad call etc.

I'm looking forward to the first time he scrambles and how he holds ball past the LOS.

Deep balls are more about the throwing an arch then arm strength. Remember Jeff Blake had great deep ball because he could rainbow it. But lets be real, most teams only throw deep 3 to 4 times a game. The money throws occur within that 5 to 15 yard range from line of scrimmage, where Cutler is very very good. And since most of the passing game is in that area that were you really want a QB like Cutler

watermock
05-22-2009, 04:23 AM
Deep balls are more about the throwing an arch then arm strength. Remember Jeff Blake had great deep ball because he could rainbow it. But lets be real, most teams only throw deep 3 to 4 times a game. The money throws occur within that 5 to 15 yard range from line of scrimmage, where Cutler is very very good. And since most of the passing game is in that area that were you really want a QB like Cutler

Maybe we should try to trade for him! He'd be awesome in McGenius' system!

The Joker
05-22-2009, 04:28 AM
Teams w/ owners struggling w/ their pocketbook may spend less. Chicago won't.

Chicago never go after big name FA's, they'll look to build the team around Jay no doubt but I don't expect some spending spree from them.

It's never been the way they do things there.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-22-2009, 05:23 AM
Know what? A WR's numbers are directly related to his QB's numbers.

Know what? A QB's numbers are directly related to his WRs' numbers.

TonyR
05-22-2009, 05:49 AM
If the trade were reversed and we traded for Cutler this offseason this board would be blow banging him left and right.

Funny because several of you are "blow banging" him and he's not even on our team any more.

TonyR
05-22-2009, 05:51 AM
A better comparison might be to Gary Zimmerman, who DID make All Pro 5 times...and as I remember he did pretty well here until he retired at age 36...3 years older than Pace.

So now you're comparing a washed up Orlando Pace to Zim? Come on, footsteps, have you been following Pace's career the past few years? There's a reason he was available and nobody was interested. He can't stay healthy and he's a shadow of his former dominant self.

chrisp
05-22-2009, 05:58 AM
People are overreacting (again). Cutler was saying that neither Marshall or Royal were house hold names when they were drafted. Freaking half of you were pissed they drafted Royal last season.

A-men! The article said that Royal and Marshall were not household names before THEY came to Dnver not before JAY came to Denver. One little word makes all the difference.

What I think we'll lose with Jay is the speed at which the ball arrived on those shorter bread-and-butter patterns. You might see that both guys get a little less YAC this season because the defenders are just an inch closer when the ball arrives and in this game an inch here or half a second there can make all the difference.....

But if we still have a solid O-line and Moreno gives us a ground threat and the everybody buys into the scheme and knuckes down we should be as good if not better without Cutler. Honestly, for all his arm strength and athleticism, he was never going to be the answer if he didn't buy into the system. This is a TEAM game, and important as the Qb position is, if the TEAM are not all on the same page, they fail.

I think Chicago's a good fit for jay, and I think they will be successful, but i think you have to forget about it now and realise that everything in the press is intended for a Chicago audience now, not a denver one! Move on.....

cmhargrove
05-22-2009, 06:02 AM
This article is really no big deal. Cutler is a bear, woo-hoo.

I'll say this for him, Jay knows how to put all the chips on the table.

If the offense drops a few games early, this home town crowd will let him have it. Then, they will point to Jay's shortcomings in Denver (taking too many chances with the ball, stalling in the red zone, etc.)

I really wish Jay the best, but my advice (as his friend, coach, or agent) would be to just shut up and save it for the field...

HILife
05-22-2009, 06:12 AM
Might seem that way but i didnt see an exact and direct quote from him. We drafted those guys pretty high based on what they did in college not what MIGHT happen thanks to Cutler. Like mentioned, they are drinking the Cutler Koolaid just like the Obama zombies.

Why in the world did you have to bring politices into this? It's like your looking for a chance to give a cheap shot.

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 06:18 AM
So now you're comparing a washed up Orlando Pace to Zim? Come on, footsteps, have you been following Pace's career the past few years? There's a reason he was available and nobody was interested. He can't stay healthy and he's a shadow of his former dominant self.
He was in the pro bowl in 2005 but got hurt and missed half the season in 2006 and almost all of 2007. He did start 14 games last year and there's no reason to think he's washed up. The Rams have a new regime wanting their own guys just like this one, and didin't want to pay him. Lovie Smith is not an idiot and they gave him $15 million over 3 years. Whether or not he's Zim at this stage only time can tell but there's no reason to think you can judge two injury plagued years and say he's washed up when he came back and started 14 games last year. He might not be the All Pro he was but you're acting like he sucks, which you're only doing to stretch the point on how bad Cutler's line will be. BTW...they do have a 6 time pro bowl player at center, and in fact that line is not nearly as inferior as you suggest. Pace's situation is similar to Ruben Brown's who had an equally sterling career with Buffalo before getting cut in 2003 despite making the pro bowl. He goes to Chicago, gets hurt and sits most of 2004, then works as a backup in '05 before getting back in the pro bowl in 2006. He was the same age as Pace.

Only 12 teams gave up fewer sacks than Chicago last year and that's with a QB who is nowhere near as mobile as Cutler is. Adding an experienced vet like Pace at a crucial position and a mobile QB will make that line look considerably better. Chris Williams is apparently healthy now as well so that may also upgrade them. To hear it told on here, Cutler will be running for his life on every snap, which is odd since Orton played behind a line less equipped than this one and his performance made McD want him here.

Try a little objectivity once in a while.

gyldenlove
05-22-2009, 06:25 AM
Um, Royal gets open and is hard to cover. That has nothing to do with Jay Cutler. Marshall has been dinged up and has the brain of a tube worm. However most of his big plays were yards after the catch, which again has nothing to do with Cutler. I think they helped each other tremendously. This is just wishful thinking by the writer who is concerned about his receiving corps and wants to pretend they're just as good there as they are here.

I would be more worried about their offensive line.

Absolutely, the WRs will be fine - for a WR it is harder to get established in this league than it is to stay established. Marshall and Royal have proven themselves and whoever starts at QB just have to take advantage of their natural playmaker abilities.

gyldenlove
05-22-2009, 06:28 AM
Know what? A QB's numbers are directly related to his WRs' numbers.

That is actually less true. Brees put up some damn fine numbers without having a single WR in the top 25. It is easier for a QB to compensate for average receivers than it is for a WR to compensate for an average QB, just ask Randy Moss.

colonelbeef
05-22-2009, 06:31 AM
That is actually less true. Brees put up some damn fine numbers without having a single WR in the top 25. It is easier for a QB to compensate for average receivers than it is for a WR to compensate for an average QB, just ask Randy Moss.

precisely. But Cutler haters, don't let facts get in the way of your blind dislike.

Rulon Velvet Jones
05-22-2009, 06:39 AM
I'm loving the Cutler clip on NFL.com where the receivers are dropping every pass thrown their way.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-bears/09000d5d8106e68f/Cutler-s-supporting-cast

Garcia Bronco
05-22-2009, 06:39 AM
It is true that Marshall and Royal were unknowns before Cutler put them on the map. This is going to be a big year for both of them to prove that they can do it without the strong-armed, risk-taking gunslinger. I think they both have shown that they have it in them. I'm less worried about Eddie Royal than I am about Marshall. Brandon just doesn't seem to have his head screwed on straight.

Eddie Royal wasn't an unknown. In fact in the college game I would say Royal was better known that Marshall or Cutler. All 3 though are east coast players.

There is nothing that Cutler ever did that caused Marshall to be near impossible to tackle. :)

TonyR
05-22-2009, 06:45 AM
To hear it told on here, Cutler will be running for his life on every snap...

I agree that the Bears O-line will probably be okay. I don't, however, agree that Orlando Pace is some automatic upgrade for them. A guy who turns 34 during the season and who's missed 25 games over the last 3 seasons is not someone you can count on to be protecting your QB's back side all season. Teams struggle without their LT, and the Bears will probably be without theirs for chunks of the season. Jay might miss Clady as much, or more, than he misses Marshall and Royal.

~Crash~
05-22-2009, 06:47 AM
Sure. But you can't deprive me of my hate for Cutler.

LOL become a charger fan ...opps my bad .... I was joking :sunshine:

TonyR
05-22-2009, 06:49 AM
Brees put up some damn fine numbers without having a single WR in the top 25.

I don't completely disagree with your point, however I wouldn't go comparing the Saints group of receivers with the Bears. That's just silly.

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 06:52 AM
I agree that the Bears O-line will probably be okay. I don't, however, agree that Orlando Pace is some automatic upgrade for them. A guy who turns 34 during the season and who's missed 25 games over the last 3 seasons is not someone you can count on to be protecting your QB's back side all season. Teams struggle without their LT, and the Bears will probably be without theirs for chunks of the season. Jay might miss Clady as much, or more, than he misses Marshall and Royal.
You conveniently ignore the fact that he returned in '08 and started 14 games. Evem of he doesn't play at a pro bowl level this year he's certainly an upgrade over John St. Clair who started last year and gave up 7 more sacks than Pace did.

gyldenlove
05-22-2009, 06:53 AM
I don't completely disagree with your point, however I wouldn't go comparing the Saints group of receivers with the Bears. That's just silly.

If Brees can get 5000 yards with the Saints groups mediocrity someone else should be able to get 4000 with the Bears group, considering Cutler already knows Earl Bennett, Greg Olsen is no slouch, Forte is solid out of the backfield.

~Crash~
05-22-2009, 07:02 AM
Funny because several of you are "blow banging" him and he's not even on our team any more.

nope we live in the real world give it a try some time .

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 07:06 AM
Another thing on the Bears line...Pace was not the only new edition. They also signed tackle Kevin Shaffer from Atlanta who started 81 games for them and Cleveland. He can also play guard. That gives them two new additions with starting experience plus Williams. That's a decidely better line on depth alone even if Pace gets hurt again.

Garcia Bronco
05-22-2009, 07:10 AM
That is actually less true. Brees put up some damn fine numbers without having a single WR in the top 25. It is easier for a QB to compensate for average receivers than it is for a WR to compensate for an average QB, just ask Randy Moss.

Except Drew Brees is a better QB than Cutler.

Ray Finkle
05-22-2009, 07:17 AM
Another thing on the Bears line...Pace was not the only new edition. They also signed tackle Kevin Shaffer from Atlanta who started 81 games for them and Cleveland. He can also play guard. That gives them two new additions with starting experience plus Williams. That's a decidely better line on depth alone even if Pace gets hurt again.

Pace was on the open market for a while....just like Levi Jones, what does that tell you about the leagues confidence in them? Just because you start 81 games for Atlanta and Cleveland does not make you a stalwart. Atlanta had Gibbs and Cleveland line last 3 years (expect 2 years ago) has been a mess.

You make some valid counter post on the OM but this is a stretch.

DarkHorse30
05-22-2009, 07:22 AM
What I think we'll lose with Jay is the speed at which the ball arrived on those shorter bread-and-butter patterns. You might see that both guys get a little less YAC this season because the defenders are just an inch closer when the ball arrives and in this game an inch here or half a second there can make all the difference.....



I would bet Cutler threw into double coverage at least 1 out of every three throws.....doesn't it follow that the WR was tackled soon after (limiting YAC) since the defenders were right there?

bpc
05-22-2009, 07:23 AM
Another Cutler hate thread because he said the WR's weren't "known" before they came to Denver.

Seriously? We're going to get upset about this?

BTW, how many passes did Brandon Marshall drop for Jay? A TON.

Chicago will be fine. Pace isn't the answer but Chris Williams could still develop into their guy. The one thing that nobody gives Cutler credit for is his pocket awareness. He has an elite ability to feel the rush and move.

Jay is going to be very good in Chicago this year. I don't know if he'll post 30 TD's as their WR's are pretty young, but he will easily hit the 25 TD mark. The ultimate winner is going to be Matt Forte. The kid is REAL good. He's gonna dominate this year.

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 07:25 AM
Pace was on the open market for a while....just like Levi Jones, what does that tell you about the leagues confidence in them? Just because you start 81 games for Atlanta and Cleveland does not make you a stalwart. Atlanta had Gibbs and Cleveland line last 3 years (expect 2 years ago) has been a mess.

You make some valid counter post on the OM but this is a stretch.
Pace signed for $15 million/3 years...maybe he was on the market because nobody was offering him the money he wanted. In any case, he gave up 2 1/2 sacks last year...7 less than LeClair so how is that not a major upgrade? Also...starting for Atlanta and Cleveland may not make you a stallwart but it makes you an NFL starter none the less...and what does Gibbs have to do with this? The point is they're better and deeper than last year in the line, they have a more mobile QB and the line they had last year finished ahead of 20 other teams in their sack numbers so this is a far cry from the "horrible" Chicago line I keep hearing about.

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 07:27 AM
Except Drew Brees is a better QB than Cutler.
Not after his 3rd season in the NFL he wasn't. He had more picks than TD's at that point and finished the season with a QB rating of 67...and i remember how we gave the Charger fans grief about how he sucked too. Cutler is further along than Brees was at this point.

kamakazi_kal
05-22-2009, 07:37 AM
I think haters are trying to twist this to fit their needs of flaming. Look, WR are only as good as the QB throwing the ball to them.

That is what makes the QB position so important, He has to deliver the ball. WR are considered to have a very good game if they catch 7 balls. A QB is asked to read and deliver that ball on average 30 times a game.

We all know what Royal and Marshall are capable of. It's up to Orton to prove his Bears WR's were sub-par. How does anyone know if Devin Hester is an all world WR? Maybe nobody was getting him the ball on time or in the right spot.

These things will be awnsered this year.

I can't wait for this offseason to be over.

TailgateNut
05-22-2009, 07:43 AM
Know what? A QB's numbers are directly related to his WR's numbers.

There ya go.

John Elway wouldn't have won many of the games he won without some "artistic" work by Rod, Eddie, and Romo, and........


Blah, blah, blah......a tire's no good without a wheel and a wheel's no good without the tire.

gyldenlove
05-22-2009, 07:54 AM
Except Drew Brees is a better QB than Cutler.

25% better, does that sound about right? that means Cutler should have 4000 yards to Brees 5000.

kamakazi_kal
05-22-2009, 07:55 AM
There ya go.

John Elway wouldn't have won many of the games he won without some "artistic" work by Rod, Eddie, and Romo, and........


Blah, blah, blah......a tire's no good without a wheel and a wheel's no good without the tire.

don't know about that one, would brister, griese or orton won the superbowl in place of elway?

TailgateNut
05-22-2009, 08:12 AM
don't know about that one, would brister, griese or orton won the superbowl in place of elway?

Would Elway have won without Eddie, Rod, TD, Griffith, his O line and our defensive corps. NO. It's a teams sport and requires a balance. One Superstar can't do it alone.

Rashomon
05-22-2009, 08:15 AM
I would bet Cutler threw into double coverage at least 1 out of every three throws.....doesn't it follow that the WR was tackled soon after (limiting YAC) since the defenders were right there?

1 out of 3 throws? A little prone to exaggeration, aren't we? I think the receivers will have less double coverage this year, because teams will gear up to stop the run first.

There is no doubt that Cutler benefitted from Marshall's and Royal's abilities, but I think that Marshall especially benefitted from playing with Cutler. Marshall is a big, strong receiver that is hard to bring down, but he is not quick like Royal. He doesn't get a lot of separation, and I don't think that Orton has the arm, accuracy, or the confidence to hit him down the field anywhere close to the numbers Cutler did. I think you will see a lot of screens and drag routes for Marshall, with very few opportunities down the field. Coupled with the hip surgery, I think Marshall's numbers will drop considerably, and Royal will be the leading receiver on the Broncos this year.

Garcia Bronco
05-22-2009, 08:17 AM
1 out of 3 throws? A little prone to exaggeration, aren't we? I think the receivers will have less double coverage this year, because teams will gear up to stop the run first.

There is no doubt that Cutler benefitted from Marshall's and Royal's abilities, but I think that Marshall especially benefitted from playing with Cutler. Marshall is a big, strong receiver that is hard to bring down, but he is not quick like Royal. He doesn't get a lot of separation, and I don't think that Orton has the arm, accuracy, or the confidence to hit him down the field anywhere close to the numbers Cutler did. I think you will see a lot of screens and drag routes for Marshall, with very few opportunities down the field. Coupled with the hip surgery, I think Marshall's numbers will drop considerably, and Royal will be the leading receiver on the Broncos this year.


Cutler rarely hi Marshall more than 20 yards past the LOS.

Taco John
05-22-2009, 08:35 AM
Cutler was very lucky that Marshall caught some of those balls in double and triple coverage. It's more like Brandon Marshall made the legend of Jay Cutler...




Marshall is afraid to catch balls over the middle. He isn't great at catching in double coverage. He *can* do it, but he seems to have his concentration broken easily. There's no doubt that Marshall has some developing to do still.

Spider
05-22-2009, 08:59 AM
And on the 6 th day Cutler rested ............

elsid13
05-22-2009, 09:04 AM
Cutler rarely hi Marshall more than 20 yards past the LOS.

Because that was what the WCO passing attack was designed to do. Get the ball to WR and let make the plays.


The double coverage that Cutler was throwing was partial due to the fact that Marshall's hip was injured and he couldn't get out of his break as fast as he needed to. (With hip surgery should get him back to be a time in his breaks) Cutler was forced to hold the ball, letting the defense recover. And before he anyone says that he should thrown it to someone else, a throw to Marshall might be been the right read based on defense coverage.

TailgateNut
05-22-2009, 09:04 AM
And on the 6 th day Cutler rested ............

Actually he rested on Sundays while here in Denver. (7th day).:~ohyah!:

kamakazi_kal
05-22-2009, 09:13 AM
Would Elway have won without Eddie, Rod, TD, Griffith, his O line and our defensive corps. NO. It's a teams sport and requires a balance. One Superstar can't do it alone.

Not asking that.

With the same team would any of those QB's win the SB ..... I myself don't think so.

TonyR
05-22-2009, 09:20 AM
And before he anyone says that he should thrown it to someone else, a throw to Marshall might be been the right read based on defense coverage.

Well, maybe. But the guy double covered is rarely the "right read" and I recall numerous times last season when Jay would stare down Brandon and miss somebody else wide open. Sure it's easy to criticize from my couch, but he did it far too often. Maybe it will actually help him in Chi that he doesn't have anybody worthy of staring down...

TonyR
05-22-2009, 09:21 AM
Actually he rested on Sundays while here in Denver. (7th day).

Hangovers suck, no doubt about that...

Popps
05-22-2009, 09:32 AM
Wow, Jay Cutler is a douche-bag?

Holy crap! Who knew!?

Popps
05-22-2009, 09:33 AM
Another thing on the Bears line...Pace was not the only new edition. They also signed tackle Kevin Shaffer from Atlanta who started 81 games for them and Cleveland. He can also play guard. That gives them two new additions with starting experience plus Williams. That's a decidely better line on depth alone even if Pace gets hurt again.



Wow, you're an upbeat poster... when it comes to the Bears. Nice to see you show some optimism.

Rock Chalk
05-22-2009, 09:34 AM
Know what? A WR's numbers are directly related to his QB's numbers.

QBs numbers are DIRECTLY related to the skill of his WRs and the skill of his O-Line.

Rock Chalk
05-22-2009, 09:35 AM
Would Elway have won without Eddie, Rod, TD, Griffith, his O line and our defensive corps. NO. It's a teams sport and requires a balance. One Superstar can't do it alone.

One Superstar, one REAL superstar, can at least get you to the playoffs.

I seem to recall Elway doing it numerous times in his career.

broncosteven
05-22-2009, 09:36 AM
Well from what I heard on AM 1000 during the Waddle Silvey show Cutler already pulled something like he did to Apa's kid.

I didn't catch the whole story but some caller or "friend of the show" said that Cutler cut him off or made him follow some rule and was short with the guy. His quote was "Greg Olsen never treated me like that" not sure what it means, guess Cutler was mean to him and he took offense.

Then they talked about all great balls Cutler was throwing, which ened up being dropped.

I am starting to see the light from the other side of the story. If they keep up with the drops maybe things won't be as pretty as I thought they would be here...

TailgateNut
05-22-2009, 09:41 AM
Not asking that.

With the same team would any of those QB's win the SB ..... I myself don't think so.

Not to take away to Elway Factor during those seasons, but that "supporting cast" was hard to beat. Beat em' in the air, slaughter em' on the ground, ST's, Defense and Fans were a once/ err:twice:wiggle: in a lifetime combo.

TailgateNut
05-22-2009, 09:42 AM
Well from what I heard on AM 1000 during the Waddle Silvey show Cutler already pulled something like he did to Apa's kid.

I didn't catch the whole story but some caller or "friend of the show" said that Cutler cut him off or made him follow some rule and was short with the guy. His quote was "Greg Olsen never treated me like that" not sure what it means, guess Cutler was mean to him and he took offense.

Then they talked about all great balls Cutler was throwing, which ened up being dropped.

I am starting to see the light from the other side of the story. If they keep up with the drops maybe things won't be as pretty as I thought they would be here...

Wait 'till he finds all the watering holes.:spit:

azbroncfan
05-22-2009, 09:52 AM
Well it was pointed out that Marshall and Royal were really shining all offseason leading up to the preseason. Marshall would of played pretty quick had he not got hurt and it's unheard of for shanny to start a rookie WR.

HEAV
05-22-2009, 09:53 AM
Know what? A QB's numbers are directly related to his WRs' numbers.



55 Percent of Matt Cassel's Passing Yards Came After the Catch.

BabyTO
05-22-2009, 10:04 AM
Marshall put himself on the map during his rookie year when he broke like 5 tackles and went all the way 70+ yards for a touchdown during the Seattle game. Cutler didn't do crap on that play.

In fact it's the exact opposite - Marshall put Cutler on the map. Cutler didn't have too many great throws. Marshall made him look better than he really is with all those circus catches and all the yards he gained after the catch.

Drek
05-22-2009, 10:13 AM
One Superstar, one REAL superstar, can at least get you to the playoffs.

I seem to recall Elway doing it numerous times in his career.

Yeah, Elway was a hell of a player.

Too bad Denver hasn't had a superstar like him since he retired and TD got his knee rolled on.

Blueflame
05-22-2009, 12:03 PM
Know what? A QB's numbers are directly related to his WRs' numbers.

Duh. But if a QB sucks, it doesn't matter how good his WRs are; their stats won't be stellar.

TonyR
05-22-2009, 12:15 PM
Duh. But if a QB sucks, it doesn't matter how good his WRs are; their stats won't be stellar.

Steve Smith was 3rd in receiving yards last season. Calvin Johnson was 5th. Antonio Bryant was 8th. Wes Welker was 9th. Tony Gonzalez was 12th. Santana Moss was 14th. Derrick Mason was 17th. Lee Evans was 19th. And so on. Would you put any of their respective QB's in the "sucks" category? Something tells me you would. And then there goes your "theory".

Blueflame
05-22-2009, 12:37 PM
Steve Smith was 3rd in receiving yards last season. Calvin Johnson was 5th. Antonio Bryant was 8th. Wes Welker was 9th. Tony Gonzalez was 12th. Santana Moss was 14th. Derrick Mason was 17th. Lee Evans was 19th. And so on. Would you put any of their respective QB's in the "sucks" category? Something tells me you would. And then there goes your "theory".

Nice strawman. My "theory" is that QB stats and WR stats are directly correlated and that good QB numbers translate directly into good WR numbers. Ergo, Jerry Rice's stats were probably a bit better working with Joe Montana and Steve Young than they might have been if he'd played with less-talented QBs.

If my "theory" is incorrect (as you appear to be arguing) then your position is that a good WR will have equally good numbers catching passes from Brodie Croyle as he would from Peyton Manning.... ::)

BroncoBen
05-22-2009, 12:40 PM
... Like mentioned, they are drinking the Cutler Koolaid just like the Obama zombies.

I'll bite... What exactly is a ‘Obama zombie’ ?

Archer81
05-22-2009, 01:46 PM
I'll bite... What exactly is a ‘Obama zombie’ ?


Anybody in the media.

As for Cutler, F him, he is in chicago.


:Broncos:

Bronx33
05-22-2009, 02:06 PM
Or one can say receivers make the QB and just so jay knows (mike shanahan) put them all on the map.

cutthemdown
05-22-2009, 02:15 PM
Teams w/ owners struggling w/ their pocketbook may spend less. Chicago won't.

Still in an uncapped yr many of the players that would have been unrestricted, will be restricted, thereby reducing the amount of available talent unless you want to give up draft picks.

An uncapped yr is not a bonanza for the teams or players, there will be less movement in an uncapped yr.

TonyR
05-22-2009, 02:22 PM
Nice strawman. My "theory" is that QB stats and WR stats are directly correlated and that good QB numbers translate directly into good WR numbers....


But that's not exactly what you said. What you DID say is this:

But if a QB sucks, it doesn't matter how good his WRs are; their stats won't be stellar.

And I just proved this to be a questionable statement at best by producing several WR's with very good stats (including 2-3 of the top 5!) playing with not so good QB's.

TailgateNut
05-22-2009, 02:27 PM
But that's not exactly what you said. What you DID say is this:

But if a QB sucks, it doesn't matter how good his WRs are; their stats won't be stellar.

And I just proved this to be a questionable statement at best by producing several WR's with very good stats (including 2-3 of the top 5!) playing with not so good QB's.

You are attempting to argue that Jay isn't the next best thing to Elway with BluFlame who KNOWS that he was leading us to the promised land.

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 02:38 PM
Wow, you're an upbeat poster... when it comes to the Bears. Nice to see you show some optimism.
Realism...just calling a strike a strike and a ball a ball. I'd be a lot more optimistic if we're talking about our O-line, not the untested D or why Cutler will go Ryan Leaf on Chicago like you homers want to do.

Blueflame
05-22-2009, 05:38 PM
But that's not exactly what you said. What you DID say is this:

But if a QB sucks, it doesn't matter how good his WRs are; their stats won't be stellar.

And I just proved this to be a questionable statement at best by producing several WR's with very good stats (including 2-3 of the top 5!) playing with not so good QB's.

You proved nothing. Crappy QB performance was the primary reason Randy Moss' numbers dropped in Oakland. You might notice that once he got a decent QB in New England, the numbers went back up.

Blueflame
05-22-2009, 05:39 PM
You are attempting to argue that Jay isn't the best QB we've had since Elway with BluFlame who KNOWS that he was better than Orton and Simms put together.

Fixed it for you.

Bronx33
05-22-2009, 05:42 PM
You proved nothing. Crappy QB performance was the primary reason Randy Moss' numbers dropped in Oakland. You might notice that once he got a decent QB in New England, the numbers went back up.


Don't forget moss got a decent coach as well.

Popps
05-22-2009, 06:25 PM
Anybody in the media.

As for Cutler, F him, he is in chicago.


:Broncos:

Dude, Bears are the new Broncos.

You didn't know?

rastaman
05-22-2009, 06:26 PM
I'm loving the Cutler clip on NFL.com where the receivers are dropping every pass thrown their way.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/chicago-bears/09000d5d8106e68f/Cutler-s-supporting-cast

Its early. The Bears WR's aren't the only ones droping passes. QB's and WR's across the NFL are all trying to work the kinks out.:thumbs:

TonyR
05-22-2009, 06:42 PM
You proved nothing. Crappy QB performance was the primary reason Randy Moss' numbers dropped in Oakland. You might notice that once he got a decent QB in New England, the numbers went back up.

Yes, I've proven that you won't admit when you're wrong about something. You're oversimplifying something you clearly don't understand.

On Randy Moss, the QB is only one factor. He also played on a lousy team with a lousy offense. More importantly the team had a losing environment, there was no respected authority to keep him in line, he wasn't motivated, and he basically gave little effort. He quit.

If the QB were the only factor as you suggest then why are Steve Smith and Calvin Johnson, just two examples, so successful? How about Tony Gonzalez and Dwayne Bowe? You say I haven't proved anything but you've completely failed to address this.

Every starting QB in the league is talented enough to get the ball to an open receiver. The best receivers are going to get open more often and make more plays both to make catches and to gain yards after the catch. Certainly a better QB is going to make a WR better to some extent, but not nearly to the degree you're arguing.

peacepipe
05-22-2009, 06:57 PM
Might seem that way but i didnt see an exact and direct quote from him. We drafted those guys pretty high based on what they did in college not what MIGHT happen thanks to Cutler. Like mentioned, they are drinking the Cutler Koolaid just like the Obama zombies. Isuppose you being a GWBS zombie would make you an expert on zombies.

Odysseus
05-22-2009, 08:24 PM
I'll bite... What exactly is a ‘Obama zombie’ ?

It's a hard core right wing Republican term for anyone that has brains. It's kind of reverse compliment. Rush is actually part of living dead. Check out the forehead. It's more of a five head if you ask me. Do you ever notice how when you listen to him your head hurts kind of like he is sucking out your brains? Yeah. Kind of like that.

Odysseus
05-22-2009, 08:35 PM
Duh. But if a QB sucks, it doesn't matter how good his WRs are; their stats won't be stellar.

Why is this statement so hard for people to fathom? Maybe you should type this really slow using your weak hand.

When are posters going to stop weeping over Cutler. (Oh boo hoo hoo! I never liked him anyway! He was so mean to me! *sniff sniff*) I am going to watch Cutler play and see what he does. I am not going hate on some NFC guy who used to play in Denver. If the Bears win the Superbowl that would be great.

I would rather talk about the Broncos. Cutler is gone.

footstepsfrom#27
05-22-2009, 08:44 PM
It's a hard core right wing Republican term for anyone that has brains. It's kind of reverse compliment. Rush is actually part of living dead. Check out the forehead. It's more of a five head if you ask me. Do you ever notice how when you listen to him your head hurts kind of like he is sucking out your brains? Yeah. Kind of like that.
:rofl: :giggle:

watermock
05-22-2009, 09:15 PM
If you want a cerebral hemorage, i suggest Alex Jones.

At least he isn't a scrotum sucking moron.

Plus he's funny ina kinda odd way....

Popps
05-23-2009, 12:53 AM
Realism...just calling a strike a strike and a ball a ball. I'd be a lot more optimistic if we're talking about our O-line, not the untested D or why Cutler will go Ryan Leaf on Chicago like you homers want to do.

Oh really? I called Cutler Ryan Leaf? Go ahead and link that one, skippy.

I said he's a douche bag, but that's like saying the sky is blue.

Again, I'm glad you're so upbeat about your Bears. Nice to see you out of your sad clown act for a brief moment, even if it is just to talk up Jay's new team.

Popps
05-23-2009, 12:56 AM
Duh. But if a QB sucks, it doesn't matter how good his WRs are; their stats won't be stellar.


4338 Passing Yards
32 TDs
12 INTs
92 QB Rating
271 Yards per game


Want to take a guess on which Hall of Fame QB this was, Blueflame?

Blueflame
05-23-2009, 12:57 AM
Yes, I've proven that you won't admit when you're wrong about something. You're oversimplifying something you clearly don't understand.

On Randy Moss, the QB is only one factor. He also played on a lousy team with a lousy offense. More importantly the team had a losing environment, there was no respected authority to keep him in line, he wasn't motivated, and he basically gave little effort. He quit.

If the QB were the only factor as you suggest then why are Steve Smith and Calvin Johnson, just two examples, so successful? How about Tony Gonzalez and Dwayne Bowe? You say I haven't proved anything but you've completely failed to address this.

Every starting QB in the league is talented enough to get the ball to an open receiver. The best receivers are going to get open more often and make more plays both to make catches and to gain yards after the catch. Certainly a better QB is going to make a WR better to some extent, but not nearly to the degree you're arguing.

Again, you proved nothing. Unless your debate position is that it does not matter one iota if the QB is Marques Tuiasosopo or Tom Brady, a good WR like Randy Moss will still have the same numbers... guess what? He didn't...

Popps
05-23-2009, 01:06 AM
4338 Passing Yards
32 TDs
12 INTs
92 QB Rating
271 Yards per game


Want to take a guess on which Hall of Fame QB this was, Blueflame?

No guesses Blueflame, or are you still looking it up?

Blueflame
05-23-2009, 01:07 AM
Why is this statement so hard for people to fathom? Maybe you should type this really slow using your weak hand.

When are posters going to stop weeping over Cutler. (Oh boo hoo hoo! I never liked him anyway! He was so mean to me! *sniff sniff*) I am going to watch Cutler play and see what he does. I am not going hate on some NFC guy who used to play in Denver. If the Bears win the Superbowl that would be great.

I would rather talk about the Broncos. Cutler is gone.

Cutler is a gifted athlete. I dunno why some Broncofans feel compelled to demonize him and pretend that he's the second coming of Jeff George...

Blueflame
05-23-2009, 01:08 AM
No guesses Blueflame, or are you still looking it up?

I'd guess Drew Brees...

Popps
05-23-2009, 01:11 AM
I'd guess Drew Brees...

Scott Mitchell.

The most irrefutable piece of proof that this statement...

if a QB sucks, it doesn't matter how good his WRs are; their stats won't be stellar.

... isn't true.

Blueflame
05-23-2009, 01:19 AM
Scott Mitchell.

The most irrefutable piece of proof that this statement...

if a QB sucks, it doesn't matter how good his WRs are; their stats won't be stellar.

... isn't true.

So your position is that the QB has no part in the equation... and that Jerry Rice would still have had the same stats if he'd been catching passes from Scott Mitchell as he had with Joe Montana and Steve Young? Really? ???

watermock
05-23-2009, 01:55 AM
I said he's a douche bag, but that's like saying the sky is blue.



Dumbass

footstepsfrom#27
05-23-2009, 03:15 AM
Scott Mitchell.

The most irrefutable piece of proof that this statement...

if a QB sucks, it doesn't matter how good his WRs are; their stats won't be stellar.

... isn't true.
Sounds like the whole blind squirrel/broken clock thing...basically by cherry picking 1 season out of the 11 he played you're proving Montana (for example) was no more consequential to success for his receivers than Mitchell? I must be missing something because that surely can't be your point...at least I guess it's not...is it? ??? In any case this might be funnier if it weren't for the fact that Mitchell's career completion percentage and QB rating trumps Orton's to this point...maybe not the best example but stats don't mean much when it's an 80 yard drive you need in the 4th quarter to win a game and it's a playmaker at the QB position you need to move the team downfield.

watermock
05-23-2009, 04:12 AM
Again, I'm glad you're so upbeat about your Bears. Nice to see you out of your sad clown act for a brief moment, even if it is just to talk up Jay's new team.

Is it Blue's new team? Nows shes a clown act?

BTW, WTF is this?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=1043&dateline=1227861295

Is that you? or some other insult? huh?

I'll bet Blue is here long after you've made an extravigant exit.

Ya know what? Al Capone had a bar on every block in Chicago, and they are still there. Ever been to Cicero?

Da Bears are hungry as well, Bears to bring a championship.

Ya know, Elway, i kinda knew him...he demanded a trade, ran a HOF coach out of town, chocked in several big games...

The cops used to follow him home and tuck him in...true.

So get used to neckbeard, because Chicago has no regrets.

cutthemdown
05-23-2009, 04:21 AM
Know what? A WR's numbers are directly related to his QB's numbers.

Yeah but Bennett didn't even crack the lineup. That can't be the QBS fault.

Plus Hester deal is his routes are not consistent. Now if a QB can't make all the throws, and the routes have to be dummed down, then yes a QB can really hinder a WR.

Obviously a great qb can help mediocre wr, and great wr can help a mediocre qb.

It's all moot anyways after this yr. You can bet at some point if the rookie WR, Hester etc, don't pan out the Bears will be looking for talent at WR.

The only thing that makes it really matter is because the worst they do, the better our first round pick will be.

After that I could care less about Cutler or the Bears.

watermock
05-23-2009, 04:29 AM
Exactly. Why are we so worried about Cutler? Ha!

I can give you 2.

Circle Orange
05-23-2009, 04:37 AM
So your position is that the QB has no part in the equation... and that Jerry Rice would still have had the same stats if he'd been catching passes from Scott Mitchell as he had with Joe Montana and Steve Young? Really? ???

You know how it goes...some people love arguing for the hell of it, no matter what you say.

Generally what happens is good players will occassionally get numbers like great ones, but not on a consistent basis. Ergo...

Daunte Culpepper ALSO has pro bowl appearance and 4,000 yards.

Jeff George had 4,000 yards one year, I beleive.

Carson Palmer I still don't consider great, and he has all the so called 'tools.' Or not?

Vick was supposed to be the next "revolution" at qb, whatever that means. Running and throwing is revolutionary? Stop me if you've heard this before. Like, Randall Cunningham was the 'ultimate weapon.' Neither are going to the hall of fame.

Let me know when the revolution starts. Delicate punt returners don't make great qbs.

Great players don't always get great numbers, either. As a rule they generally produce when necessary, though. Which is why I find the fixation with Cutler so interesting...essentially dude's a strong armed qb who's done nothing, yet people rattle on like he's great. Again, please pause at every strong armed qb that's done nothing coming down the pike...and enough about potential. I didn't hear this much hype on the guy at draft day. Talented yes, but if I hit the mute button on tv I don't see anything I HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE.

TheElusiveKyleOrton
05-23-2009, 05:33 AM
Nice strawman. My "theory" is that QB stats and WR stats are directly correlated and that good QB numbers translate directly into good WR numbers. Ergo, Jerry Rice's stats were probably a bit better working with Joe Montana and Steve Young than they might have been if he'd played with less-talented QBs.



Right, but Montana and Young weren't helped out at all by Rice being on those San Fran rosters, huh? And I suppose Rich Gannon is really an all-time great for what he accomplished in Oakland with Rice and Timmy Brown.

And that must be why, no matter who Denver brought in to catch passes from John Elway, they didn't win a Super Bowl until he had legitimate targets and a strong line and running game.

The POINT is, blueflame, that the QB and WRs make EACH OTHER, one doesn't always make the other or vice versa. Elway had more talent in his little finger than cutler, but you and your ilk think that Cutler will automatically start winning super bowls in Chicago, even though he has a crappy WR corps and a less-than-stellar line.

That dog don't hunt.

HEAV
05-23-2009, 07:03 AM
Right, but Montana and Young weren't helped out at all by Rice being on those San Fran rosters, huh? And I suppose Rich Gannon is really an all-time great for what he accomplished in Oakland with Rice and Timmy Brown.

And that must be why, no matter who Denver brought in to catch passes from John Elway, they didn't win a Super Bowl until he had legitimate targets and a strong line and running game.

The POINT is, blueflame, that the QB and WRs make EACH OTHER, one doesn't always make the other or vice versa. Elway had more talent in his little finger than cutler, but you and your ilk think that Cutler will automatically start winning super bowls in Chicago, even though he has a crappy WR corps and a less-than-stellar line.

That dog don't hunt.


A great arm can make average recievers look good. Elway,Marino and Farve are just a few example of this. Also a great reciever can make a average quarterback look good. Just have to look at Tony Romo and his core group he had over the past few years.

Again it's about balance. A great quarterback and great reciever combo is deadly, but you need a running game and a defense to win games.

The Bears are still going to run the ball first. Cutler arm will keep teams from loading up-front, but his reciever core scares nobody. If the Bears try to become a Cutler passing team the wheels will fall off. Thier defense has been in decline the last two seasons and age isn't on it's side. So the Bears are going to have to keep the offense on the field for long drives and let the defense rest.

As far as us (Denver) the offensive core surrounding Orton is better than he had in Chicago. This will improve his numbers alone, then you take into play McDaniels system will be about getting the ball to play makers and let them get the YAC's and scores. Orton may not have Jay's numbers of 2008, but he could be in the 12 of the league next season.

Given a decent defense and running game both the Bears and Broncos will have success in 2009.

Hamrob
05-23-2009, 09:16 AM
Um, Royal gets open and is hard to cover. That has nothing to do with Jay Cutler. Marshall has been dinged up and has the brain of a tube worm. However most of his big plays were yards after the catch, which again has nothing to do with Cutler. I think they helped each other tremendously. This is just wishful thinking by the writer who is concerned about his receiving corps and wants to pretend they're just as good there as they are here.

I would be more worried about their offensive line.Somebody has to get them the ball. Just like we'll need to see if Jay can turn his new crew into legitimate NFL Receivers. We'll need to see if Royal and Marshall are just as good with a noodle armed QB throwing them the ball.

Personally, I think both groups will excel this year. Cutler brings confidence to the table. I think Bennett will have a break out year in Chicago, as will Hester. They have a few other guys that will contribute as well and everyone will be kissing Jay's butt in Chicago.

Orton's noodle is strong enough to get the ball where it needs to be in a timing offense and both Royal and Marshall have the talent to continue thier dominance.

As for Jay's comments: He's right on the money. Marshall was a 4th rounder who nobody knew about and Royal was a kid drafted in the 2nd who many thought was a reach. Now, they're both studs. Sure, because of their talent...but also because Cutler believed in them and didn't let them think anything but that they could excel at the NFL level!

Br0nc0Buster
05-23-2009, 09:29 AM
Somebody has to get them the ball. Just like we'll need to see if Jay can turn his new crew into legitimate NFL Receivers. We'll need to see if Royal and Marshall are just as good with a noodle armed QB throwing them the ball.

Personally, I think both groups will excel this year. Cutler brings confidence to the table. I think Bennett will have a break out year in Chicago, as will Hester. They have a few other guys that will contribute as well and everyone will be kissing Jay's butt in Chicago.

Orton's noodle is strong enough to get the ball where it needs to be in a timing offense and both Royal and Marshall have the talent to continue thier dominance.

As for Jay's comments: He's right on the money. Marshall was a 4th rounder who nobody knew about and Royal was a kid drafted in the 2nd who many thought was a reach. Now, they're both studs. Sure, because of their talent...but also because Cutler believed in them and didn't let them think anything but that they could excel at the NFL level!

wow how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you just make **** up?
Orton doesnt have a noodle arm....that is not a legitimate concern about his game.
You have clearly never seen him play a single snap of football in college or the pros.

oh and Marshall and Royal are good because "Cutler believed in them"?....lol yep thats it alright......

SportinOne
05-23-2009, 10:12 AM
Wow, either some of you really hate this guy or this offseason got very boring very fast. I'm not going to read through 5 pages of speculation and Cutler bashing to see if this has been said, but no, Cutler is not saying he "made" Marshall and Royal. He is saying that although some players don't get hyped as much as others, they are still talented. Hence, he is saying his receivers are plenty talented, despite the fact that no one knows about them. It is true, however, that he will get way more out of those receivers than Orton did. And it is true that had Orton or Simms been our QB the last couple years that Marshall and Royal don't have anywhere near the success that they had. I can say that, Cutler probably shouldn't. But if he did he would have been correct. The point is that he didn't.

Requiem
05-23-2009, 11:06 AM
Marshall and Royal will be good players, but I don't expect Denver to chuck up the ball 600+ times like we did last season. That'll be the real indicator in why their receiving yards and stats could plausibly be down, not that they lack having Diabetes Cutler tossin' 'em insulatin' chucked passes.

Popps
05-23-2009, 11:25 AM
So your position is that the QB has no part in the equation... and that Jerry Rice would still have had the same stats if he'd been catching passes from Scott Mitchell as he had with Joe Montana and Steve Young? Really? ???

I didn't say that.

You were the one that made the blanket statement, which was easily refutable.

As for Rice, I'd just say that he'd make any QB better. You may recall Rice having success with more than one QB.

Popps
05-23-2009, 11:35 AM
Is it Blue's new team? Nows shes a clown act?

BTW, WTF is this?

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=1043&dateline=1227861295

Is that you? or some other insult? huh?


Are you serious?



Mock, stick to the poo-poo face, McDummy stuff. Four paragraphs of disjointed and misspelled dribble just isn't that effective as smack-talk goes.

Circle Orange
05-23-2009, 12:57 PM
Although in truth, Rice was pretty much done in Oakland...which is why Shanahan gently told him he'd be a third or fourth wideout in Broncoville.

GAH. Still time to go for the season!

Also, Rice excelled in a system designed for his talents. Running after the catch, and in his day he had good speed. But if you put him in a bombs away O, he's average. So this argument can go in circles...

Just like having Moss go over the middle exclusively is senseless...he'd get cracked in half like a twig.

That's the funny thing about players...sometimes you're never quite sure if even GREAT players are made by a system.

Take Favre for example, and before anyone screams blasphemy, consider...

a cannon armed qb with a true WEST COAST OFFENSE his entire career...
Montana, not cannon armed with same styled offense...

One has four rings.
The other has one.

clearly, something else is responsible. Thus, the danger of cherry picking stats, systems and players to make a point.

cutthemdown
05-23-2009, 01:30 PM
Marshall and Royal will be good players, but I don't expect Denver to chuck up the ball 600+ times like we did last season. That'll be the real indicator in why their receiving yards and stats could plausibly be down, not that they lack having Diabetes Cutler tossin' 'em insulatin' chucked passes.

I still think we pass about 55% of the time, but also probably about 10% more thrown to running backs. So yeah I agree less chances for Marshall and Royal this next yr.

Still though Broncos could be behind a lot this season and need to throw a ton.