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iforgotmypassword
05-19-2009, 02:24 PM
Here's my take

Coach: Shanny > Mickey D--- I'm very excited about the new staff but for the time being shanny gets the nod

Coaching Staff: last year < this year---the only good coaches we had last year we retained, minus a whiz kid

QB: Cutler > Orton, Simms---i'm over it

RB: injured reserve < Moreno, buckhalter, JJ, Lamont, Peyton Hillos, Torain, this is a position people aren't nearly as excited about as they should be

WR: last year < this year--- gaffney was actually a pretty decent pickup

TE: last year < this year---slight edge with the rook.

OL: last year < this year--- experience

DL: Bust----who realy knows... where will reid play? Thomas could be a dominant end I think, Thomas and Peterson at ends really isn't that bad... the rook could slide down too but I think he'll play outbacker.... withe UDFA I might have to go with the new crop

LB: last year < this year---Moss, Doom, Crowder could be good, Larsen could excel, DJ will find a role, Woodyard can make plays, Boss?, rookie rook could be defensive player of the year, andra davis could easily become the bargain of the year, not sure we have all the right peices, but we have enough peices.

CB: last year < this year---we have three solid, play-making corners

S: sh*tshows < anything else----most improved unit on the team by far.

Everything looks good on paper but I honestly think we've improved every spot of our football team (specail teams is up in the air) minus QB.... and with no cutler arguments i'd to like to hear what everyone else thinks about every other position minus QB.

BroncoBuff
05-19-2009, 02:34 PM
At quarterback we're about even, maybe a little better without Ramsey.

See? This is exactly the kind of unrealistic, blue-sky thinking that troubles me ... ;D

kamakazi_kal
05-19-2009, 02:48 PM
I think the OL will be a little more exposed this year.

Not trying to start an argument cause I'm over it too but, Cutlers ability to move in the pocket helped that sack total stay low.

RB will be better if we don't lose everyone of them this year. I would think we should be a run first team considering all the FA/draft influx and our less then solid QB setup.

WR = push. Gaffney .... meh. I think Royal has a better year then Marshall this year.

bronco0608
05-19-2009, 02:49 PM
See? This is exactly the kind of unrealistic, blue-sky thinking that troubles me ... ;D

I wonder what kind of numbers Cutler would have put up in Chicago last season with Reshe Davis, Devin Hester, and Greg Olsen as his pass targets?

25 ints maybe?

Orton > Cutler.

Get past his big arm, and watcha got? Its like a closer in baseball who throws 110 mphs per hour but only saves half his games because he walks as many as he strikesout.

But getting back to the thread, to be honest, I believe we have improved every position on the field, honestly, sans the offensive line.

colonelbeef
05-19-2009, 03:32 PM
I wonder what kind of numbers Cutler would have put up in Chicago last season with Reshe Davis, Devin Hester, and Greg Olsen as his pass targets?

25 ints maybe?

Orton > Cutler.

Get past his big arm, and watcha got? Its like a closer in baseball who throws 110 mphs per hour but only saves half his games because he walks as many as he strikesout.

But getting back to the thread, to be honest, I believe we have improved every position on the field, honestly, sans the offensive line.

Hilarious! :pigsfly: :homer: Uhh thwack :bs:

watermock
05-19-2009, 03:36 PM
Wrong!

Besides QB, (who we were going to pay 600k) we wasted a second on a blocking TE we pay 11 million to do.

We also drafted 1 tweener at DL, and gave away a probable top 10 pick we could of packaged for either a real QB or DT next year.

We got scrubs and unkowns all thu the front 7 as well as the secondary. Smith will probably start, but at what price?

The apologists for Mcdummy are blind lemmings. We spent 6 picks on offense and Knowshon can't even run a sub 4.6!

Flex Gunmetal
05-19-2009, 03:37 PM
Monroney can run a 4.1.

watermock
05-19-2009, 03:43 PM
Really.

Portis couldn't run a 4.1. Bull.

Freaking Alfozo can't run a 4.5 either.

Flex Gunmetal
05-19-2009, 03:50 PM
Alonzo ran a 4.2!

Flex Gunmetal
05-19-2009, 03:51 PM
Excuse me, I meant Alfonso. Alfonso Ribeiro. Perhaps you've heard of him? He was our 5th round gem.

GoBroncos84
05-19-2009, 03:54 PM
We've improved at RB and in the secondary. The front 7 is hard to call. It was our weakest area last year and it still seems like the weakest area this year. I hope that Ayers, Davis, Powell, Fields, and Hampton can all have an impact. But I am still very uneasy at this point, I think we should have done much more to improve that area. Offensive line retains all of its parts and gets a little deeper with the draft picks, but the system is changing a bit. They are still going to run a ZBS, but its going to be modified from what its been in the past. We will have to wait and see how it goes, McDaniels generally prefers big lineman and our guys don't all fit the mold. Receivers are about equal, I like McKinley and the fact that Gaffney has experience in the system. But again its going to depend on how the others adapt to change. Tight Ends will be about the same unless the rookie has a big impact. QB is a massive downgrade, though I am hopeful that Orton can thrive with the talent around him and the system. Coach is a massive downgrade until proven otherwise.


I am hopeful. But when people argue that our offense is going to be better I challenge that we could have drafted Moreno and still had Cutler. That offense would have been insane. We signed too many RB's in free agency. I like Buckhalter, Jordan, and Arrington each for different reasons. But with Torain and Hillis already on the roster and Moreno added, not to mention Darius Walker, its overkill. Money could have been spent on front 7 (Vonnie Holiday is still available). I have no trust for McD yet, he has to prove himself. It will be a very interesting year.

OBF1
05-19-2009, 04:00 PM
Wrong!

Besides QB, (who we were going to pay 600k) we wasted a second on a blocking TE we pay 11 million to do.

We also drafted 1 tweener at DL, and gave away a probable top 10 pick we could of packaged for either a real QB or DT next year.

We got scrubs and unkowns all thu the front 7 as well as the secondary. Smith will probably start, but at what price?

The apologists for Mcdummy are blind lemmings. We spent 6 picks on offense and Knowshon can't even run a sub 4.6!

Hey Mockdouchebag... We cut loose 6 starters from Shanahans defense and not a single one of them has been picked up by a single team. Get over your complaining already.

watermock
05-19-2009, 04:07 PM
RB Moreno hurt by 40 times
Chris Brown
Posted February 22nd, 2009
Tags: Knowshon Moreno, NFL Combine
Georgia RB Knowshon Moreno needed to run a solid 40 time to convince the doubters that he has breakaway speed. He didn’t.

Moreno ran a 4.58 and a 4.63 in his two runs. He was visibly disappointed after running them. It shouldn’t drop him on boards too much, but it certainly doesn’t help his cause.



I don't mind the Green pick, other than we allready had an ample draft to pick from, and it would of been a bonus to see what 2010 was avaiable for us.

watermock
05-19-2009, 04:16 PM
Hey Mockdouchebag... We cut loose 6 starters from Shanahans defense and not a single one of them has been picked up by a single team. Get over your complaining already.

So what douchebag, I said draft defense, and we spent our late 1st on Ayers, 6 of 10 pcks went to offense dumbass.

WE SHOULD OF CUT 6 STARTERS! Wasn't that the plan?
Maybe 8, or benched them.


For what we gave up for Smith, we may of passed on a probowler. Package it all you like. 5-7-7/8ths is smaller than Green, and slower.

Hey, he's a playmaker, we'll see how he does, and who Seattle gets, or what we could of gotten packaging picks for a QB/DT that isn't in a contract year.

Your arguments are fail.

Popps
05-19-2009, 04:26 PM
See? This is exactly the kind of unrealistic, blue-sky thinking that troubles me ... ;D

ROFL!

Popps
05-19-2009, 04:29 PM
So what douchebag, I said draft defense, and we spent our late 1st on Ayers, 6 of 10 pcks went to offense dumbass.


So, drafting 3 out of our first 4 top picks on defense doesn't matter?

How about the other 7 likely new starters on defense?

I love this kind of logic. We are likely to swap out literally more than HALF of our defensive personnel, along with our entire defensive coaching staff.

But, we haven't made any changes on defense.

I love this place.

watermock
05-19-2009, 04:59 PM
SiRB Moreno hurt by 40 times
Chris Brown
Posted February 22nd, 2009
Tags: Knowshon Moreno, NFL Combine
Georgia RB Knowshon Moreno needed to run a solid 40 time to convince the doubters that he has breakaway speed. He didn’t.

Moreno ran a 4.58 and a 4.63 in his two runs. He was visibly disappointed after running them. It shouldn’t drop him on boards too much, but it certainly doesn’t help his cause.

Simply using 2 of 3 first rounders on D and a 2nd on a blocking TE?

And reach for that unknown safety? Oh, right, he was "on our board". PFFt.

McDummy needs to watch Hoodie Sr, who not only got like 4 seconds, but like2 more in trades for '10. We simply traded our high picks like tin cans caled Cutler.

DeusExManning
05-19-2009, 05:00 PM
Really.

Portis couldn't run a 4.1. Bull.

Freaking Alfozo can't run a 4.5 either.

What are you Al Davis now Mock? Focusing on the 40 seriously distracts you from the truth.

Orange_Beard
05-19-2009, 05:10 PM
Last years team was short 1 middle linebacker, this years team will be short 2 middle linebackers.

I just don't see how the d-line will be any better. IMHO there is no reason to talk about the O, if we can't stop the run, we will get rolled up.

Orange_Beard
05-19-2009, 05:13 PM
So, drafting 3 out of our first 4 top picks on defense doesn't matter?

How about the other 7 likely new starters on defense?

I love this kind of logic. We are likely to swap out literally more than HALF of our defensive personnel, along with our entire defensive coaching staff.

But, we haven't made any changes on defense.

I love this place.

To me looks like we cast off 7 players from the D and replaced the with 6 castoffs from other teams.
Explain to me how this team will stop the run?

watermock
05-19-2009, 05:14 PM
What are you Al Davis now Mock? Focusing on the 40 seriously distracts you from the truth.

Seriously, do you believe that?

People laughed their ases of about Bey, not because he wasn't a first rounder, but because Crabtree was so much more accomplished and harvin was injured and is a smoker.

What BS are you making up now?

If we wanted to draft for a stonger D, we should of traded DOWN into a better class with /DT's and QB's.

That's MO, or has Mcdummy only have a 1 year contract?

And what truth is that friend? Just becase Smith is timed @4.29 under a stopwatch at PRO DAY?

Flex Gunmetal
05-19-2009, 05:17 PM
Mock, cheer up.

eddie mac
05-19-2009, 05:18 PM
Last years team was short 1 middle linebacker, this years team will be short 2 middle linebackers.

I just don't see how the d-line will be any better. IMHO there is no reason to talk about the O, if we can't stop the run, we will get rolled up.

Andra Davis is better than any player we've had in the middle since Al.

Rock Chalk
05-19-2009, 05:19 PM
Seriously, do you believe that?

People laughed their ases of about Bey, not because he wasn't a first rounder, but because Crabtree was so much more accomplished and harvin was injured and is a smoker.

What BS are you making up now?

If we wanted to draft for a stonger D, we should of traded DOWN into a better class with /DT's and QB's.

That's MO, or has Mcdummy only have a 1 year contract?

And what truth is that friend? Just becase Smith is timed @4.29 under a stopwatch at PRO DAY?

Walter Peyton and Jerry Rice both had slow 40 times.

Orange_Beard
05-19-2009, 05:22 PM
Andra Davis is better than any player we've had in the middle since Al.

Is or was?

How do you explain this drop off?
During the 2007 season he struggled starting only 10 of 16 games, finishing with only 67 tackles.

TonyR
05-19-2009, 05:24 PM
Walter Peyton and Jerry Rice both had slow 40 times.

Seriously, this guy is clueless with his 40 time fascination. I guess he'd rather have a track star than a football player at RB.

By the way, Mock, Terrell Davis says hello.

watermock
05-19-2009, 05:27 PM
Where are Moss and Dumberville going to play, huh?

Both have ZERO experience laying 3/4 OLB.

Tell me.

Basically, neither does Ayers, but he a talent. He has size and speed.

I sure would of taken that other USC backer....Matthews.

gyldenlove
05-19-2009, 05:30 PM
Walter Peyton and Jerry Rice both had slow 40 times.

Tomlinson and Randy Moss both had excellent 40 times. Stop living in the past :pimp:

Orange_Beard
05-19-2009, 05:30 PM
Seriously, this guy is clueless with his 40 time fascination. I guess he'd rather have a track star than a football player at RB.

By the way, Mock, Terrell Davis says hello.

What were TD's 40 times?

TonyR
05-19-2009, 05:31 PM
Where are Moss and Dumberville going to play, huh?


Where were they going to play in our old system? If he can't adjust Moss might play in the CFL or Arena League. Doom I have higher hopes for. And don't get so hung up on the 3-4, we're going to see plenty of 4-3 this year.

Rock Chalk
05-19-2009, 05:33 PM
Tomlinson and Randy Moss both had excellent 40 times. Stop living in the past :pimp:

Tomlinson < Peyton.

Moss < Rice.

That will never change.

Rod Smith wasnt the fastest guy either, but he did pretty well for us.

Besides, the point was that you dont have to have a fast 40 time. That doenst mean a whole lot on the football field. A player's game speed in full pads and the ability to go from slow to fast in about a step and a half is what matters the most.

Id be more interested in players reaction times on the 40 than the actual 40 time itself. Its not often that a players top speed comes into play, especially running backs. Its how they move, how their foot and legwork is that is far FAR more important than top speed.

Just ask Terrell Davis.

watermock
05-19-2009, 05:34 PM
I allready explained this.

You name 2 HOF GOAT's to make an argument.

First, Rice ran routes better than anyone and had game speed in the open field.

Peyton had move and explosiveness in bursts.

Smith had a great OLine, so did Davis.

WTF is your point?

Your goint to point out Jesus was a prophet now because he was a carpenter?

Inkana7
05-19-2009, 05:36 PM
We've improved across the board minus QB. If it wasn't for people being butthurt over the Cutler trade or the Shanahan firing to begin with, I feel that McDaniels' approval rating would be sky high. However I think that Cutler would have been gone regardless of what new coach was brought in. Our position coaching and coordinating has improved dramatically as has our talent level.

Inkana7
05-19-2009, 05:37 PM
Is or was?

How do you explain this drop off?
During the 2007 season he struggled starting only 10 of 16 games, finishing with only 67 tackles.

Usually the previous season is a better indicator than two seasons back. Andra had 100+ tackles and started every game in 08.

Orange_Beard
05-19-2009, 05:37 PM
Tomlinson < Peyton.

Moss < Rice.

That will never change.

Rod Smith wasnt the fastest guy either, but he did pretty well for us.

Besides, the point was that you dont have to have a fast 40 time. That doenst mean a whole lot on the football field. A player's game speed in full pads and the ability to go from slow to fast in about a step and a half is what matters the most.

Id be more interested in players reaction times on the 40 than the actual 40 time itself. Its not often that a players top speed comes into play, especially running backs. Its how they move, how their foot and legwork is that is far FAR more important than top speed.

Just ask Terrell Davis.

Dude, the league was different. I don't disagree that those guys were better, but defenders are much faster then they were when Sweetness played.

Inkana7
05-19-2009, 05:40 PM
Dude, the league was different. I don't disagree that those guys were better, but defenders are much faster then they were when Sweetness played.

But not for Rice. Jerry was burning defenses in his late 30s. It's about production, not measurables.

watermock
05-19-2009, 05:43 PM
Davis had a bad hammy at Georgia, but great vision too. What's the point?

Elite speed is great only if its combined with instincts and desire.

So what?

Jimmy Johnson was able to draft well, players with both.

Go ahaead and tell us again how sopeed doesn't matter.

TDmvp
05-19-2009, 05:45 PM
this thread will be great revisited at a later date when we actually know something ... but until then...

TonyR
05-19-2009, 05:45 PM
Smith had a great OLine, so did Davis.

WTF is your point?


Rod Smith played RB?!? I don't remember that.

And you're asking what HIS point is?!?

Go watch some video of Moreno. He has plenty of burst and quicks. He's legit, and was the top ranked RB in the draft for a reason.

Orange_Beard
05-19-2009, 05:46 PM
Usually the previous season is a better indicator than two seasons back. Andra had 100+ tackles and started every game in 08.

According to this : http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=3669

He had 90 tackles.
He was also playing "behind" an all pro nose tackle.

watermock
05-19-2009, 05:49 PM
The fact is, they loved the spread offense so well under Moreno they abandoned it.

TonyR
05-19-2009, 05:49 PM
Davis had a bad hammy at Georgia, but great vision too. What's the point?
Elite speed is great only if its combined with instincts and desire.
So what?
Jimmy Johnson was able to draft well, players with both.
Go ahaead and tell us again how sopeed doesn't matter.

Am I the only one who pictures the Nic Cage character in Leaving Las Vegas (the guy who drinks himself to death) when reading this dude's posts?

watermock
05-19-2009, 05:54 PM
Where ya from Tony?

DenverBrit
05-19-2009, 05:54 PM
What were TD's 40 times?

A blazing 4.72.

Being infatuated with 40 times, instead of the play-making ability at game speed, means a lot of teams miss out on some excellent RBs.

The Broncos have proven that year after year.

http://www.fantasyfootballxtreme.com/2009/02/23/2009-combine-forty-times-for-running-backs/

Inkana7
05-19-2009, 05:57 PM
The fact is, they loved the spread offense so well under Moreno they abandoned it.

What? Moreno ran mostly out of split backs/single back.

footstepsfrom#27
05-19-2009, 06:01 PM
The primary thing I see is that most units are marginally either better or worse than last year, except for the all important QB spot. If football were Chess the QB is the Queen. Replace a true playmaker with a caretaker and you immediately diminish your offense very considerably.

The offensive line should be a little improved at the two OT spots and RG where the three young guys are. On the flip side I have my eye on 36 year old Casey Wiegmann to see if he slips any. I also agree that the unit's sack numbers will go up with Orton rather than Cutler under center.

The D-line looks about the same as last year except that we at least have more size, if not more experience. I don't see the LB's as a known factor at this point so I see no point in even predicting whether they're better or not. Davis is an improvement even if he's slowing down, but we already know DJ is best at Will, not playing inside, and we know nothing at all about either outside position. Can Dumervil play there? Can Moss? Can Ayers? Nobody knows...the most interesting battle might be inside where I see Spencer and Woodyard fighting it out. I wish they could both start.

In the secondary Dawkins is obviously an improvement but he's also 36 in October...more than he proves to be the answer, I'm hoping he helps mentor Barrett into a guy whose ready to put the talent he has to use as a starter within another year. Bly and Goodman are a wash and with Champ another year older, I'd say the secondary is about the same since Smith will probably be the same as a rookie that Foxworth was in a nickel role.

The biggest improvement is the RB spot where Moreno and Hillis could be a top duo in the league. The other guys are mostly journeymen so even though they're better than what we had, I doubt most of them see the field much anyway.

The biggest improvement we should hope for is on special teams, where almost anything would be better than what it was. That might be more significant than we realize, since we probably lost at least 2 games every year because of crappy special teams breakdowns with Mike's crew.

Orange_Beard
05-19-2009, 06:01 PM
A blazing 4.72.

Being infatuated with 40 times, instead of the play-making ability at game speed, means a lot of teams miss out on some excellent RBs.

The Broncos have proven that year after year.

http://www.fantasyfootballxtreme.com/2009/02/23/2009-combine-forty-times-for-running-backs/

I know he had a bad hammy his senior year. TD had something special. It did not show up on TV. I remember the first time I saw him run, he looked like he glided on the field.

DenverBrit
05-19-2009, 06:08 PM
I know he had a bad hammy his senior year. TD had something special. It did not show up on TV. I remember the first time I saw him run, he looked like he glided on the field.

He was the perfect Zone blocking RB.

I liked everything about him, a class act and a sure fire HOF RB, if it weren't for the injury.

watermock
05-19-2009, 06:08 PM
What? Moreno ran mostly out of split backs/single back.

Wrong. Georgia chocked against both Fla and Bama. They couldn't run Moreno in the spread.

DBroncos4life
05-19-2009, 06:14 PM
I think we should cut a few backs and bring back Tatum Bell.

DBroncos4life
05-19-2009, 06:19 PM
Tomlinson and Randy Moss both had excellent 40 times. Stop living in the past :pimp:

I hear that Peterson is kind of fast too.

cmhargrove
05-19-2009, 08:11 PM
Davis had a bad hammy at Georgia, but great vision too. What's the point?

Elite speed is great only if its combined with instincts and desire.

So what?

Jimmy Johnson was able to draft well, players with both.

Go ahaead and tell us again how sopeed doesn't matter.

Have you been talking to Al Davis?

~Crash~
05-19-2009, 08:29 PM
Wrong!

Besides QB, (who we were going to pay 600k) we wasted a second on a blocking TE we pay 11 million to do.

We also drafted 1 tweener at DL, and gave away a probable top 10 pick we could of packaged for either a real QB or DT next year.

We got scrubs and unkowns all thu the front 7 as well as the secondary. Smith will probably start, but at what price?

The apologists for Mcdummy are blind lemmings. We spent 6 picks on offense and Knowshon can't even run a sub 4.6!

but Knowshon dances really well .

Doggcow
05-19-2009, 09:09 PM
I hear that Peterson is kind of fast too.

Terrell Davis didn't have blazing speed. Brandon Jacobs is no Usain Bolt, Ronnie Brown was only a 4.45, Frank Gore is a 4.66-ish back, Shaun Alexander was slow as balls, Stephen Jackson ran a 4.55, Brian Westbrook ran a god damn 4.57.

DO I HAVE TO GO ON SON?

Orange_Beard
05-19-2009, 09:13 PM
But not for Rice. Jerry was burning defenses in his late 30s. It's about production, not measurables.

It's a mixture of both.

Doggcow
05-19-2009, 09:13 PM
Marion Barber 4.48 btw too. These are all EXTREMELY productive backs of late.

Orange_Beard
05-19-2009, 09:15 PM
He was the perfect Zone blocking RB.

I liked everything about him, a class act and a sure fire HOF RB, if it weren't for the injury.

I agree, did you ever get to see him play in person?

Popps
05-19-2009, 09:37 PM
Rod Smith played RB?!? I don't remember that.

And you're asking what HIS point is?!?



:spit:

ScottXray
05-19-2009, 09:48 PM
Overall, I think we will be an UNKNOWN at a LOT of positions.

Offensive coaching = Unknown , maybe better.

RB we are better. Just having a healthy backfield = better. Having Hillis and Moreno + others available all year = big improvement

O-line...Wiegman = older = worse but more experience at Ends = better.
Guards..Kuper better, Hamilton still in ?. Probably a wash. Orton and Simms will take more sacks though. Scheme should be more run oriented. Any Injury here could be a factor, but I like our depth on the line.

QB = less talent but more consistent = less OOH AHH moments, probably less OH.NO momments too. WASH.

TE= probably better, especially if rook is good and Sheffler can stay healthy.

WR= probably worse to about the same on the upside. Marshall may take suspension, Royal hits 2nd year, Stokely another year older and the FA pickups not impressive although they know the offense. Minor downgrade.

Overall offense should improve in the run, fall off some in the pass dept, and hopefully score more and keep the other team off the field more.

Special teams. We should see improvement in this phase more than anywhere else. We have a higher level of talent overall and it should show here first. I would have liked to see competition in camp for the kickers.
Coaching ????

Defense. Coaching hopefully improves here. Nobody could do worse than Slowik.

4-3 or 3-4 line we have Bigger players overall, so maybe they can hold the gaps better. Scheme should be better. It CAN'T be worse than last year so overall I think moderately improved. Not sure if we can run a legitimate 3-4 without a good NT. Anyone at that spot will be learning = bad.

OLB? No one knows, but I think we'll get killed in the pass game unless they can learn the new positions or are faster in coverage than they were. QB Rush should improve but will it be enough = Not. Overall about the same, maybe improving at the seasons end. Hopefully Micky will fine anyone who celebrates just doing their job by making a tackle.

ILB. should be improved, but who is going to captain and call out the defenses, especially if it's 3-4? Again , should improve as the season goes along.

Saftey...definitely improved, actually legitimate safeties in the backfield.

CB. Champ is another year along. Rookie may help Bly =gone , replacement = same. Wash.

Overall I think we are somewhat better overall but it won't show fully until the second half of the season. Injuries could kill those gains, but hopefully
depth overall will also be better and negate that. First half may be ugly then hopefully get better as it goes along.

DBroncos4life
05-19-2009, 10:03 PM
Terrell Davis didn't have blazing speed. Brandon Jacobs is no Usain Bolt, Ronnie Brown was only a 4.45, Frank Gore is a 4.66-ish back, Shaun Alexander was slow as balls, Stephen Jackson ran a 4.55, Brian Westbrook ran a god damn 4.57.

DO I HAVE TO GO ON SON?

TD isn't in the NFL anymore nor is Alexander. You act like Ronnie Browns fourty time was slow. Micheal Turner ran a 4.4 40, DeAngelo Williams had a sub 4.5 40, Clinton Portis 40 time was a sub 4.3, Adrian Peterson had a sub 4.4 40. Crazy that all them god damn sub 4.5 40 backs finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the NFL in rushing. Steve Slaton had a sub 4.5 40, Matt Forte, Chris Johnson, and LaDainian Tomlinson all in the top ten in rushing all with sub 4.5 40's. I think only Thomas Jones and Ryan Grant finished in the top 10 in rushing without a sub 4.5 fourty.

Speed doesn't make you great but it sure doesn't hurt you.

Oh I looked up Ryan Grant's 40 time was 4.43 at the combine so that leaves out Thomas Jones as the only top ten back that didn't run a sub 4.5 40 time.

BroncoMan4ever
05-19-2009, 10:06 PM
See? This is exactly the kind of unrealistic, blue-sky thinking that troubles me ... ;D

see to a point i agree. but it is a tradeoff. we lose the big time arm and the out of this world plays Cutler made, but we also lose his mopiness on the field, his ego which at times clouded his judgment, and his red zone mistakes. Add in that McDaniels runs a very QB friendly offense that was capable of working with a scrub backup running it last season. so it isn't out of the question that Orton will match what Cutler gave us last season.

BroncoMan4ever
05-19-2009, 10:11 PM
Tomlinson and Randy Moss both had excellent 40 times. Stop living in the past :pimp:

TD ran something like a 4.6 in the 40 coming out of college, but he had game speed. look at Moreno's highlights. he doesn't have the straight line track star speed, but he makes his reads in an instant, makes cuts lightning quick, and his initial burst through the hole is extremely fast, on the field he is very fast, and considering straight line speed doesn't mean **** in the NFL i don't care what his 40 time was. he is fast in and out of his breaks, cuts fast and sees the hole and explodes through it. he is a guy who is going to become a RB that gets you 5 and 6 yards a carry with regularity and wears defenses down, and occasionally he will bust long runs.

BroncoMan4ever
05-19-2009, 10:13 PM
TD isn't in the NFL anymore nor is Alexander. You act like Ronnie Browns fourty time was slow. Micheal Turner ran a 4.4 40, DeAngelo Williams had a sub 4.5 40, Clinton Portis 40 time was a sub 4.3, Adrian Peterson had a sub 4.4 40. Crazy that all them god damn sub 4.5 40 backs finished 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th in the NFL in rushing. Steve Slaton had a sub 4.5 40, Matt Forte, Chris Johnson, and LaDainian Tomlinson all in the top ten in rushing all with sub 4.5 40's. I think only Thomas Jones and Ryan Grant finished in the top 10 in rushing without a sub 4.5 fourty.

Speed doesn't make you great but it sure doesn't hurt you.

Oh I looked up Ryan Grant's 40 time was 4.43 at the combine so that leaves out Thomas Jones as the only top ten back that didn't run a sub 4.5 40 time.

Emmit Smith, TD, Jamal Lewis, Edge, some of the best RBs of the past 15 years didn't have track star speed.

Rock Chalk
05-19-2009, 11:03 PM
The primary thing I see is that most units are marginally either better or worse than last year, except for the all important QB spot. If football were Chess the QB is the Queen. Replace a true playmaker with a caretaker and you immediately diminish your offense very considerably.

Id so kick your ass in chess. Id even spot you my queen and kick your ass.


The offensive line should be a little improved at the two OT spots and RG where the three young guys are. On the flip side I have my eye on 36 year old Casey Wiegmann to see if he slips any. I also agree that the unit's sack numbers will go up with Orton rather than Cutler under center.

Orton will get rid of the ball by dumping off quickly. Idiot.

The D-line looks about the same as last year except that we at least have more size, if not more experience. I don't see the LB's as a known factor at this point so I see no point in even predicting whether they're better or not. Davis is an improvement even if he's slowing down, but we already know DJ is best at Will, not playing inside, and we know nothing at all about either outside position. Can Dumervil play there? Can Moss? Can Ayers? Nobody knows...the most interesting battle might be inside where I see Spencer and Woodyard fighting it out. I wish they could both start.

Front 7 > last year due to coaching and the fact that replaced schmucks who couldnt even get jobs in the NFL this year.

In the secondary Dawkins is obviously an improvement but he's also 36 in October...more than he proves to be the answer, I'm hoping he helps mentor Barrett into a guy whose ready to put the talent he has to use as a starter within another year. Bly and Goodman are a wash and with Champ another year older, I'd say the secondary is about the same since Smith will probably be the same as a rookie that Foxworth was in a nickel role.

Entire secondary is ten times better than last year.

The biggest improvement is the RB spot where Moreno and Hillis could be a top duo in the league. The other guys are mostly journeymen so even though they're better than what we had, I doubt most of them see the field much anyway.

Was that something positive you colossal douche?

The biggest improvement we should hope for is on special teams, where almost anything would be better than what it was. That might be more significant than we realize, since we probably lost at least 2 games every year because of crappy special teams breakdowns with Mike's crew.

We lost Jay Cutler thus, we are a better team. No more staring down receivers, no more constant red zone mishaps, no more pouting for the team to get down on.

2009 Broncos will be a better team than any we have fielded since Jay Cutler took the field.

Thats a promise.

BroncoBuff
05-19-2009, 11:07 PM
I wonder what kind of numbers Cutler would have put up in Chicago last season with Reshe Davis, Devin Hester, and Greg Olsen as his pass targets?

25 ints maybe?

Orton > Cutler.
Whoa there cowboy ... Orton is NOT better than Cutler.

But you can't argue that Cutler had a much better supporting cast here, much better.

Even so, Cutler will definitely succeed in Chicago, don't kid yourself. He was SEC Player of the Year with teammates who were riduculously overmatched every Saturday. He'll be fine in Chicago.

DBroncos4life
05-19-2009, 11:28 PM
Emmit Smith, TD, Jamal Lewis, Edge, some of the best RBs of the past 15 years didn't have track star speed.

And some years ago NFL players didn't wear helmets. I don't think that would fly anymore. I understand that the NFL was one way in the past but if you can't see that the speed and size of the game is changing I don't know what to tell you. Like I said there will always be talented backs that don't run a 4.5 or faster but odds are the faster you do run the better off you are.

footstepsfrom#27
05-19-2009, 11:59 PM
Whoa there cowboy ... Orton is NOT better than Cutler.

But you can't argue that Cutler had a much better supporting cast here, much better.

Even so, Cutler will definitely succeed in Chicago, don't kid yourself. He was SEC Player of the Year with teammates who were riduculously overmatched every Saturday. He'll be fine in Chicago.
Rumors are surfacing in Chicago that the Bears talks with Arizona for Antoine Boldin have picked up again. If he winds up there all the sudden that's a pretty decent supporting cast with which to work.

BroncoBuff
05-20-2009, 12:13 AM
Rumors are surfacing in Chicago that the Bears talks with Arizona for Antoine Boldin have picked up again. If he winds up there all the sudden that's a pretty decent supporting cast with which to work.

That would be huge for them ...

How did Chris Willams do as a rookie? He was rated just a notch or twio below Clady last year coming out.

Hulamau
05-20-2009, 12:19 AM
Wrong!

Besides QB, (who we were going to pay 600k) we wasted a second on a blocking TE we pay 11 million to do.

We also drafted 1 tweener at DL, and gave away a probable top 10 pick we could of packaged for either a real QB or DT next year.

We got scrubs and unkowns all thu the front 7 as well as the secondary. Smith will probably start, but at what price?

The apologists for Mcdummy are blind lemmings. We spent 6 picks on offense and Knowshon can't even run a sub 4.6!

Wake up on the wrong side of the bed Mock? Go back to sleep and sweet dreams :peace:

Hulamau
05-20-2009, 12:28 AM
Well this wasn't suppose to be another Cutler Orton thread but the truth is NO ONE will ever know if Cutler would have been better than Orton in this Offense.

My guess is he could have been IF he had dedicated himself to learning under McD. No doubt he has the over all talent edge.

But Orton is no slouch and had very little time to throw in Chicago an hapless WR when he did. I think he do just fine here.

I have no illusion that Orton can throw the ball with the zip Cutler can but still think he will surprise a lot of people here with this line, system and weapons around him.... And the running game is gonna be a HUGE lift to this offense AND defense this year.

Bottom line is this is about Orton and whoever else comes NEXT if he doesn't succeed, NOT about Jay Cutler. He punched his own ticket out of town.

And What I lament is that most Cutler suckers will be stuck idealizing every little thing Cutler "would have done" here regardless of what Orton does!

Orton could win 19 games and MVP of the SB and a few here would STILL dream of how many more yards Cutler would have had with the same team! Time to move on!

Hulamau
05-20-2009, 12:41 AM
Tomlinson < Peyton.

Moss < Rice.

That will never change.

Rod Smith wasn't the fastest guy either, but he did pretty well for us.

Besides, the point was that you don't have to have a fast 40 time. That doesn't mean a whole lot on the football field. A player's game speed in full pads and the ability to go from slow to fast in about a step and a half is what matters the most.

Id be more interested in players reaction times on the 40 than the actual 40 time itself. Its not often that a players top speed comes into play, especially running backs. Its how they move, how their foot and legwork is that is far FAR more important than top speed.

Just ask Terrell Davis.

Exactly, and when Mock, have you ever seen Moreno caught from behind?
Sounds like you're catching 'Curmudgeons syndrome'.

BroncoMan4ever
05-20-2009, 12:59 AM
Id so kick your ass in chess. Id even spot you my queen and kick your ass.

Orton will get rid of the ball by dumping off quickly. Idiot.

Front 7 > last year due to coaching and the fact that replaced schmucks who couldnt even get jobs in the NFL this year.

Entire secondary is ten times better than last year.

Was that something positive you colossal douche?


We lost Jay Cutler thus, we are a better team. No more staring down receivers, no more constant red zone mishaps, no more pouting for the team to get down on.

2009 Broncos will be a better team than any we have fielded since Jay Cutler took the field.

Thats a promise.

you and i have clashed on quite a few topics in the past, but i am with you 100% on this post right here.

footstepsfrom#27
05-20-2009, 01:15 AM
That would be huge for them ...

How did Chris Willams do as a rookie? He was rated just a notch or twio below Clady last year coming out.
Williams got hurt...reagravating a back injury and had surgery but he's back now. One would assume they bring him along slowly to take over for Pace or else move him to RT while Pace can still play. Hester is a guy people dismiss...but he will probably see more balls and run deeper routes with Cutler throwing it. I could see him and Boldin being a pretty good combination.

watermock
05-20-2009, 01:17 AM
Your making alot of assertions and assumptions.

Ignorance is bliss.

BroncoMan4ever
05-20-2009, 01:21 AM
And some years ago NFL players didn't wear helmets. I don't think that would fly anymore. I understand that the NFL was one way in the past but if you can't see that the speed and size of the game is changing I don't know what to tell you. Like I said there will always be talented backs that don't run a 4.5 or faster but odds are the faster you do run the better off you are.

see now this post is just complete ignorance. TD in his prime in this age of football is still an elite RB. Emmit in his prime right now is elite, Jamal Lewis in his prime all of these guys you say had their primes in a different era, who didn't have the track star speed would all still be elite RBs in today's NFL.

Moreno's skill set is somewhat similar to TDs. neither had the track star straight line speed.(and honestly how often does a RB ever run a straight line on the field, so who gives a **** if he can run a 4.3 in the 40?) the most important aspects of the game for a good RB is vision, explosiveness through the hole, quick 1st steps, quick cuts, deciveness, strength, ability to shed tacklers, and fall forward, all of which Moreno has and does.

3 cone drill and shuttle run are better gauges on RB speed than the 40, and Moreno is 2nd best amongst RBs at the combine in the 3 Cone and top 10 in the shuttle run.

footstepsfrom#27
05-20-2009, 01:26 AM
Id so kick your ass in chess. Id even spot you my queen and kick your ass.
Is that so? How would you know? FYI...I started playiing Chess 7 years before you were born and I have never lost...never. Assuming you know who you can beat or can't, especially someone you've never met...LOL...stupid...totally stupid.
Orton will get rid of the ball by dumping off quickly. Idiot.
Yes he will...which is why you will see our receivers running shorter routes...and gaining fewer yards. What's your point? Do you even have one?
Front 7 > last year due to coaching and the fact that replaced schmucks who couldnt even get jobs in the NFL this year.
The current group: NT- Fields = career backup, nobody else with any experience has played there; DE- Peterson is a backup, Powell's never played a game in the NFL, most of the rest are UDFA rookies. Not even the coaches know if these guys can play...pretty sure that means you don't either.
Entire secondary is ten times better than last year.
10x better? With no pass rush they won't be better at all, let alone by a factor of ten. ROFL!
We lost Jay Cutler thus, we are a better team. No more staring down receivers, no more constant red zone mishaps, no more pouting for the team to get down on.
Yes I can see why you're a master chess player. ROFL!
2009 Broncos will be a better team than any we have fielded since Jay Cutler took the field.

Thats a promise.
Your promises mean nothing.

BroncoMan4ever
05-20-2009, 01:37 AM
Wrong!

Besides QB, (who we were going to pay 600k) we wasted a second on a blocking TE we pay 11 million to do.

We also drafted 1 tweener at DL, and gave away a probable top 10 pick we could of packaged for either a real QB or DT next year.

We got scrubs and unkowns all thu the front 7 as well as the secondary. Smith will probably start, but at what price?

The apologists for Mcdummy are blind lemmings. We spent 6 picks on offense and Knowshon can't even run a sub 4.6!

we now have a pair of blocking TEs who are going to bring us added size and strength in goal line, red zone and short yardage situations, also now we have depth in case Graham gets injured.

why draft players in the middle rounds if they are not going to be an upgrade over what is currently on the roster if you feel you can get another player at a different position that you like better and who will actually contribute. reaching on players because they played a position of need is why we got saddled with guys like Moss, Crowder, and a laundry list of other scrubs who couldn't cut it.

Smith will wind up starting opposite of Champ by the end of this season or the start of next.

given away a top 10. so many jackasses are already so certain this team will suck without having seen a single TC practice, preseason game or snap that means a damn thing.

this team went 8-8 last season with a defense that i could have run for 125 yards on, led by a QB who was amongst the league leaders in turnovers, with no running game, and a defense full of scrubs that can't even get signed as backups anywhere else in the league, coaches that sucked(we retained the 2 that were any good)

McDaniels system is very QB friendly, so friendly that a QB that hadn't played since high school was almost a pro bowler in it, so Orton is going to be fine and look pretty damn good. he was decent in Chicago with no line or receiving weapons, both of which he has an abundance of here in Denver. he will match or surpass what Jay did last season.

we now have a legit rushing attack in the form of Moreno, Hillis, and depth behind them.

we dumped the dead weight on the defense, and replaced them with high character, hard working guys.

we got a couple vocal and emotional veteran leaders to take these younger players and rookies and mold them into good players for us, for years to come.

this team will be much better than it was last season.

and on the Cutler thing. **** HIM! he punched his own ticket out of Denver and I say good riddance to his mopey, egotistical, mistake prone ass.

footstepsfrom#27
05-20-2009, 02:12 AM
this team went 8-8 last season with a defense that i could have run for 125 yards on, led by a QB who was amongst the league leaders in turnovers, with no running game, and a defense full of scrubs that can't even get signed as backups anywhere else in the league, coaches that sucked(we retained the 2 that were any good).
Career Turnovers:

Orton: 1 every 24.6 touches
Cutler: 1 every 27.1 touches

125 yards? Really?

watermock
05-20-2009, 02:29 AM
The only thing you forgot was his agent demanding a new contract.

We pay both backups 3x more than Cutler was due in 09.

Oh, and how about those 3 year deals for 30 something backup RB's?

Go on, by all means...tell us how D-Hawk is worth 9 million guaranteed.

BroncoMan4ever
05-20-2009, 02:30 AM
Career Turnovers:

Orton: 1 every 24.6 touches
Cutler: 1 every 27.1 touches

125 yards? Really?

Cutler - Great line that only allowed 12 sacks and 2 of the best young receivers in the game

Orton - terrible line, and no receivers

watermock
05-20-2009, 02:31 AM
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Cleveland Browns 70/1
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Denver Broncos 50/1
Detroit Lions 150/1
Green Bay Packers 25/1
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Tampa Bay Buccaneers 40/1
Tennessee Titans 20/1
Washington Redskins 25/1

BroncoMan4ever
05-20-2009, 02:34 AM
The only thing you forgot was his agent demanding a new contract.

We pay both backups 3x more than Cutler was due in 09.

Oh, and how about those 3 year deals for 30 something backup RB's?

Go on, by all means...tell us how D-Hawk is worth 9 million guaranteed.

Both of the backups as you call them want to play here and are working to start here for the Broncos. Cutler was being a whiny b****, and couldn't get past having his poor little feelings hurt. this is the NFL no one gives a **** how you feel

if Dawkins can guide Barrett, Bruton, and McBath and any other young Safeties on the roster, and help them become 75% of the player he was in his prime he was worth it. if he is half the vocal and emotional leader for this defense that he was in Phily he is worth it. add in, he is expnentially better than the starters we had at the beginning of last season.

footstepsfrom#27
05-20-2009, 02:39 AM
Cutler - Great line that only allowed 12 sacks and 2 of the best young receivers in the game

Orton - terrible line, and no receivers
Cutler: made his line's sack numbers better with his mobility
Orton: RB with 1700 yards total offense, TE's combined for almost 100 catches

125 yards...really? :spit:

footstepsfrom#27
05-20-2009, 02:42 AM
Both of the backups as you call them want to play here and are working to start here for the Broncos.
Which of these career backup RB's do you think could start here...and why?

Drek
05-20-2009, 04:08 AM
Whoa there cowboy ... Orton is NOT better than Cutler.

But you can't argue that Cutler had a much better supporting cast here, much better.

Even so, Cutler will definitely succeed in Chicago, don't kid yourself. He was SEC Player of the Year with teammates who were riduculously overmatched every Saturday. He'll be fine in Chicago.

Orton isn't better than Cutler, I'd agree there (at least from a raw talent standpoint).

But there is no guarantee that Cutler succeeds. He's still got all the same problems he did coming out of Vandy. He doesn't show great consistency in his footwork which leads to a lot of questionable balls, he's still willing to try jamming the ball into places it can't really fit, and he's still so unwilling to throw the ball out of bounds on a failing play that he winds up running around and taking sacks he doesn't need to.

He also still has some real iffy accuracy on his deep ball, and isn't as good as you'd expect someone with his arm to be on short range passes. He's a stud in between the 10-20 range, where his laser passes really shine, but he isn't consistent yet outside of that range and he makes a ton of mental mistakes in any game he's played, even the good ones.

Very far from a finished QB, and he just bitched his way off the team that currently has the best young offensive guru/QB coach in the NFL, so questioning if he'll ever make that next step up in his career is pretty valid.

That would be huge for them ...

How did Chris Willams do as a rookie? He was rated just a notch or twio below Clady last year coming out.

Chicago can resume talks all they want, doesn't mean it'll ever happen. They're looking at trying to trade value from the '10 draft without a first round pick now. Is AZ going to take a future 2nd for him? Hell no. And if they would Philly, the Giants, or a half dozen other better teams who can afford to give up their late 1st for him would jump in the pool.

Getting Cutler blew their wad. Their best hope now is beating out other teams for Burress, assuming he isn't suspended or in jail next season.

And Chris Williams spent a lot of last year dealing with a back injury, the same injury he had coming out of college. Ryan Harris has bounced back from his back problems pretty well but thats far from typical for most OLs. We'll see how Williams does but he's fighting an uphill battle at this point.

BroncoInSkinland
05-20-2009, 04:20 AM
Here's my take

Coach: Shanny > Mickey D--- I'm very excited about the new staff but for the time being shanny gets the nod - Agree, though I do think McDaniels on field coaching ability is very good, of all the problems I have with him, this is not one.

Coaching Staff: last year < this year---the only good coaches we had last year we retained, minus a whiz kid - Agree

QB: Cutler > Orton, Simms---i'm over it - Agree

RB: injured reserve < Moreno, buckhalter, JJ, Lamont, Peyton Hillos, Torain, this is a position people aren't nearly as excited about as they should be - Agree, though I think most people are excited about Moreno, they are just a little overwhelmed by the QB situation and thus unable to really invest in this aspect.

WR: last year < this year--- gaffney was actually a pretty decent pickup - Disagree, I think its a wash. Gaffney is good, but I think Stokely is trailing off.

TE: last year < this year---slight edge with the rook. - Depends on how McDaniels utilizes Scheffler, and on Schefflers post Jay attitude. I think this is a loss or a wash.

OL: last year < this year--- experience - Agree, though I am not certain how they can get much better.

DL: Bust----who realy knows... where will reid play? Thomas could be a dominant end I think, Thomas and Peterson at ends really isn't that bad... the rook could slide down too but I think he'll play outbacker.... withe UDFA I might have to go with the new crop - Wash, and this is one of my biggest issues this offseason. This was obviously the area of the highest need, and we did very little to address it. Yes the UDFA's with Ayers will probably be a slight upgrade, and overall I expect slightly better performance, but does anyone really believe we have found, or even tried to find a long term solution here?

LB: last year < this year---Moss, Doom, Crowder could be good, Larsen could excel, DJ will find a role, Woodyard can make plays, Boss?, rookie rook could be defensive player of the year, andra davis could easily become the bargain of the year, not sure we have all the right peices, but we have enough peices. - Agree to a point, though from watching the Browns for the past few seasons I don't put much stock in Andra. I hope I am wrong and that he has a career resurgence, but I doubt it.

CB: last year < this year---we have three solid, play-making corners - Agree, though it was awfully expensive

S: sh*tshows < anything else----most improved unit on the team by far. Agree with the improvement, but I think Special teams will be the most improved.

Everything looks good on paper but I honestly think we've improved every spot of our football team (specail teams is up in the air) minus QB.... and with no cutler arguments i'd to like to hear what everyone else thinks about every other position minus QB.

For me a lot of the positions are a wash, or very close to it. I think it will come down to which is more important, Coaching staff + RB or QB. The secondary is improved (probably significantly improved) as well, but until the line shows signs of life, it doesn't really matter. Give the recievers enough time, and even Champ will get burned. Overall I am expecting a wash on the whole team, but with us playing a tougher schedule I anticipate fewer W's say in the area of 5-11 to 6-10.

The real kicker for me though is we set ourselves up for the same thing all over again next year. Look I like Davis a lot, ton of heart, and Baker is close to the measurables you want at NT, but I don't agree with leaving our line to UDFA's and hope. Despite that I like these guys and will be rooting for them every down if they make it, I don't anticipate either of them to be with the team in three to five years. It is stop gap at best, at worst it could be a downgrade, and the line has been neglected far too long.

DBroncos4life
05-20-2009, 07:29 AM
see now this post is just complete ignorance. TD in his prime in this age of football is still an elite RB. Emmit in his prime right now is elite, Jamal Lewis in his prime all of these guys you say had their primes in a different era, who didn't have the track star speed would all still be elite RBs in today's NFL.

Moreno's skill set is somewhat similar to TDs. neither had the track star straight line speed.(and honestly how often does a RB ever run a straight line on the field, so who gives a **** if he can run a 4.3 in the 40?) the most important aspects of the game for a good RB is vision, explosiveness through the hole, quick 1st steps, quick cuts, deciveness, strength, ability to shed tacklers, and fall forward, all of which Moreno has and does.

3 cone drill and shuttle run are better gauges on RB speed than the 40, and Moreno is 2nd best amongst RBs at the combine in the 3 Cone and top 10 in the shuttle run.
A tenth of a second can mean a hole that was open is now closed.

gyldenlove
05-20-2009, 07:48 AM
For me a lot of the positions are a wash, or very close to it. I think it will come down to which is more important, Coaching staff + RB or QB. The secondary is improved (probably significantly improved) as well, but until the line shows signs of life, it doesn't really matter. Give the recievers enough time, and even Champ will get burned. Overall I am expecting a wash on the whole team, but with us playing a tougher schedule I anticipate fewer W's say in the area of 5-11 to 6-10.

The real kicker for me though is we set ourselves up for the same thing all over again next year. Look I like Davis a lot, ton of heart, and Baker is close to the measurables you want at NT, but I don't agree with leaving our line to UDFA's and hope. Despite that I like these guys and will be rooting for them every down if they make it, I don't anticipate either of them to be with the team in three to five years. It is stop gap at best, at worst it could be a downgrade, and the line has been neglected far too long.

I agree that a lot of positions are pretty much the same. I think TE, WR, OL, DL are pushes. QB is a downgrade. CB, LB, RB and S are upgrades.

TonyR
05-20-2009, 09:26 AM
A tenth of a second can mean a hole that was open is now closed.

This is exactly where this argument about 40 times is flawed. That time is measured over 40 yards. A RB needs to have burst/quick acceleration and quickness much more than high end speed over a longer distance. If you watch video of Moreno he has plenty of burst and quickness. Bryant Westbrook, whose 40 time is similar to Moreno's, is a perfect example. Not track star fast but very football quick.

Moreno's 40 time is pretty much a non-issue. We've got plenty of things to be concerned about regarding the team but this isn't one of them.

Plus, he does a very good touchdown celebration.

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_12407466

footstepsfrom#27
05-20-2009, 09:49 AM
I agree that a lot of positions are pretty much the same. I think TE, WR, OL, DL are pushes. QB is a downgrade. CB, LB, RB and S are upgrades.
The only one I'd differ with is the linebacking group. Davis by some reports, has slowed down a bit, but assuming he's an improvement, we still are faced with uncertainty at all the other spots. DJ has been shown to be at his best playing Will and not inside, plus nobody even knows how he responds in the 3-4. Elvis may or may not work out standing up. When I suggested we experiment with that a year ago people laughed and overwhelmingly rejected it. Moss looks like an OLB on paper but is there anyone who thinks he's a lock to even make this team? Ditto with Crowder. Reid's a D-lineman whose never played LB and a backup even at that position. The best hope IMO is that Larsen and Woodyard, neither of whom fits the 3-4 prototype, can defy the traditional wisdom that size is a necessary ingredient. Hoping a 220 pounder plays 35 pounds bigger is a lot to hope for in a defense we'll be brand new to and one where the NT in front of those guys is also going to be both young and undersized in all probability.

TonyR
05-20-2009, 10:01 AM
Everyone may be overly concerned with our ability to transition to the 3-4. I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot of hybrids and 4-3. If we see the 3-4 isn't going to work for us I think it's a safe bet the coaching staff will have it figured out.

BroncoBuff
05-20-2009, 10:36 AM
Williams got hurt...reagravating a back injury and had surgery but he's back now. One would assume they bring him along slowly to take over for Pace or else move him to RT while Pace can still play. Hester is a guy people dismiss...but he will probably see more balls and run deeper routes with Cutler throwing it. I could see him and Boldin being a pretty good combination.

Boldin would be such a colossal gift for the Bears .... I hope that happens.

Gcver2ver3
05-20-2009, 10:40 AM
Boldin would be such a colossal gift for the Bears .... I hope that happens.

that would lessen our 1st round position...you wouldn't really root for that would you?...

BroncoBuff
05-20-2009, 10:54 AM
that would lessen our 1st round position...you wouldn't really root for that would you?...

Good point.

Maybe wait to sign Boldin as a FA next year.

Pick Six
05-20-2009, 11:01 AM
Excuse me, I meant Alfonso. Alfonso Ribeiro. Perhaps you've heard of him? He was our 5th round gem.

EVERYBODY do the White Boy dance...ROFL!

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BroncoMan4ever
05-20-2009, 11:45 AM
Which of these career backup RB's do you think could start here...and why?

Orton easily. He was capable of getting WINS in chicago with no offense. he can lead a very QB friendly style of offense that McDaniels runs. so he is going to do just fine in Denver.

BroncoMan4ever
05-20-2009, 11:50 AM
A tenth of a second can mean a hole that was open is now closed.

look at the 3 Cone Drill and 20 yard Shuttle Run. those are the drills that are of more importance in seeing the on field speed of a RB and not the 40.

those runs incorporate change of direction, cut quickness 2 of the most important abilities for a RB.

and Moreno is amongst the fastest in both of those.

kamakazi_kal
05-20-2009, 11:52 AM
Orton easily. He was capable of getting WINS in chicago with no offense. he can lead a very QB friendly style of offense that McDaniels runs. so he is going to do just fine in Denver.

don't kid yourself they won on the legs of Forte. He was by far their most valuable offensive player.

NFLBRONCO
05-20-2009, 12:01 PM
Wrong!

Besides QB, (who we were going to pay 600k) we wasted a second on a blocking TE we pay 11 million to do.

We also drafted 1 tweener at DL, and gave away a probable top 10 pick we could of packaged for either a real QB or DT next year.

We got scrubs and unkowns all thu the front 7 as well as the secondary. Smith will probably start, but at what price?

The apologists for Mcdummy are blind lemmings. We spent 6 picks on offense and Knowshon can't even run a sub 4.6!


What did TD run coming out of college???? He wasn't fast in the 40 but, he had a HOF career

Rashomon
05-20-2009, 12:10 PM
Is that so? How would you know? FYI...I started playiing Chess 7 years before you were born and I have never lost...never. Assuming you know who you can beat or can't, especially someone you've never met...LOL...stupid...totally stupid.


Wow, chess trash talking on a football board. I would venture to guess if you have never lost at chess you have never played competitively. Why don't both of you give your chess ratings, which would give us a good idea who would win.

footstepsfrom#27
05-20-2009, 04:13 PM
Wow, chess trash talking on a football board. I would venture to guess if you have never lost at chess you have never played competitively. Why don't both of you give your chess ratings, which would give us a good idea who would win.
Yeah...pretty silly huh...like lots of Rock Talk's takes...competitive rating?...nope, never really have been interested enough for that but over the years from time to time I have played people who did compete and beaten them. One dude got mad, flipped out and turned the board over...lol In any case, I just thought it was straight up being a complete weenie for him....no big surprise I guess.

Hey Rock Talk...I, I, I...can shave closer that you! And my dad can beat up your dad too! ::)

2KBack
05-20-2009, 04:17 PM
don't kid yourself they won on the legs of Forte. He was by far their most valuable offensive player.

and of course Forte threw those 63 passes to himself

footstepsfrom#27
05-20-2009, 04:24 PM
and of course Forte threw those 63 passes to himself
Eh...I could hit 5 yard tosses to the RB. I imagine you could too...not the best point there. :thumbs:

fdf
05-20-2009, 04:54 PM
Wow, chess trash talking on a football board. I would venture to guess if you have never lost at chess you have never played competitively. Why don't both of you give your chess ratings, which would give us a good idea who would win.

You gotta love the offseason after the draft.

For example, did you know that I have never lost at anything, ever? And I've been doing things since before Abraham Lincoln! What that means is that my opinions on the Mane are better than pretty darn good--folks should count themselves fortunate just to be on the same thread. When fdf speaks, Bowlen listens!

Al Davis doesn't. Which really proves my point. Now, about 40 times . . .

footstepsfrom#27
05-20-2009, 05:20 PM
You gotta love the offseason after the draft.

For example, did you know that I have never lost at anything, ever? And I've been doing things since before Abraham Lincoln! What that means is that my opinions on the Mane are better than pretty darn good--folks should count themselves fortunate just to be on the same thread. When fdf speaks, Bowlen listens!
Sure...because I said all that and also because I'm the one that brought it up to begin with huh? Well in any case I suck at cards, board games and anything that involves random chance like games with dice.

That means nothing either.

DBroncos4life
05-20-2009, 05:25 PM
look at the 3 Cone Drill and 20 yard Shuttle Run. those are the drills that are of more importance in seeing the on field speed of a RB and not the 40.

those runs incorporate change of direction, cut quickness 2 of the most important abilities for a RB.

and Moreno is amongst the fastest in both of those.

Im not saying a RB without 4.5 speed in the NFL can't do well I'm simply pointing out to you that a better 40 time does help. I already pointed out 9 out of the top 10 RBs last year in rushing yards had a sub 4.5 forty time. More and more NFL teams are going to two backs, one with speed and one with power.

Dedhed
05-20-2009, 07:10 PM
the QB is the Queen.

Correction: the Qb was the queen.

Dedhed
05-20-2009, 07:11 PM
Eh...I could hit 5 yard tosses to the RB. I imagine you could too...not the best point there. :thumbs:
It's hard to throw the ball to a guy you never see though.