View Full Version : So, what has changed?
I posted this about 1 1/2 years ago -- back then Dems seemed to agree with me, and understand that spending was the problem -- not the solution. Now that we are even worse off, do you no longer see the cliff coming, and that overspending from a Dems will kill us, just as much as it would from R's?
Listen up. Right or left -- Americans will be dealing with this -- not just Donkeys and Elephants. I got this info from right and left, and neutral sites -- so it is what it is. If you guys know better, and can shoot the FACTS down -- please do, because the math holding up this house of cards is not good. The US Comptroller General (I never even knew existed) was on the Glenn Beck TV program yesterday. His name is David Walker, and he heads the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) and is in effect the USA's chief accountability officer. (Walker was voted in by congress for a 15 year term) unanimously under Reagan, and later under Clinton.)
Walker has compared the present-day United States with the Roman Empire in its decline, saying the U.S. government is "on a ‘burning platform’ of unsustainable policies and practices with fiscal deficits, chronic healthcare under funding, immigration and overseas military commitments threatening a crisis if action is not taken soon. (like ten years ago.)
On the Glenn Beck program yesterday, he said that the debt of the USA (on social security and Medicare) plus others is rounded up to $56 TRILLION. With $2 TRILLION USD ADDED EVERY YEAR!! Yes, much higher than some stats we usually see -- but look below at the USA Today. There are three books that are used in terms of reporting American debt.
This info was on USA Today:
Taxpayers on the hook for $59 trillion
By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY
The federal government recorded a $1.3 trillion loss last year — far more than the official $248 billion deficit — when corporate-style accounting standards are used, a USA TODAY analysis shows.
Bottom line: Taxpayers are now on the hook for a record $59.1 trillion in liabilities, a 2.3% increase from 2006. That amount is equal to $516,348 for every U.S. household. By comparison, U.S. households owe an average of $112,043 for mortgages, car loans, credit cards and all other debt combined.
Unfunded promises made for Medicare, Social Security and federal retirement programs account for 85% of taxpayer liabilities. State and local government retirement plans account for much of the rest.
This hidden debt is the amount taxpayers would have to pay immediately to cover government's financial obligations. Like a mortgage, it will cost more to repay the debt over time. Every U.S. household would have to pay about $31,000 a year to do so in 75 years.
BALANCE DUE
The cost per U.S. household of unfunded promises made by federal, state and local government:
Medicare $255,280
Social Security $144,251
Federal debt $43,380
Military benefits $25,863
State and local debt $17,537
Federal civil- servant benefits $14,374
State and local retiree benefits $13,114
Other federal obligations $2,548
Total $516,348
Source: USA TODAY research; numbers
Although I don’t agree with many of his views Ron Paul is one of the few that has the balls to say some of this stuff. We are bankrupt – some us just don’t realize it yet. The above stuff appears to be undoctored facts -- so what do you do? We send our troops everywhere, and we promise more medical bennefits? Yeah, that's smart.
Meck77
05-16-2009, 10:29 PM
The cost per U.S. household of unfunded promises made by federal, state and local government:
Medicare $255,280
Social Security $144,251
.
And tens of millions of baby boomers on the way. Isn't Obama the guy talking about sustainability?
watermock
05-16-2009, 10:55 PM
Don't you know that Glen Beck is Alex Jones iinsane little brother?
And who is this David Walker guy? I dated a Walker girl who's uncle owned Boulder in the 1800's, she was crazy.
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watermock
05-16-2009, 11:08 PM
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barryr
05-18-2009, 06:12 AM
History has shown you can't spend your way to balance budgets or by taxing people makes them want to spend more of their money. It just doesn't happen.
If we truly want to improve our system, we need economists not bought and sold by certain lobbyist groups to run our banking, treasury, etc. not a bunch of politicians who 95% are lawyers who don't have a clue with economics, much less ever run a business.
Rigs11
05-18-2009, 09:27 AM
you guys are funny. Obama inherited a clusterfvck. he has only been pres for a little over 100 days and all of a sudden you guys are fiscal proponents.:rofl:
barryr
05-18-2009, 09:31 AM
you guys are funny. Obama inherited a clusterf***. he has only been pres for a little over 100 days and all of a sudden you guys are fiscal proponents.:rofl:
What? Nancy and Harry Reid didn't fix everything? Frank and Dodd did such a great job with the housing market ^5
Garcia Bronco
05-18-2009, 09:37 AM
you guys are funny. Obama inherited a clusterf***. he has only been pres for a little over 100 days and all of a sudden you guys are fiscal proponents.:rofl:
OI sadi this the last 8 years and I'll say it again. The problem in this country ain't the executive branch. It's the Legislative Branch.
you guys are funny. Obama inherited a clusterf***. he has only been pres for a little over 100 days and all of a sudden you guys are fiscal proponents.:rofl:
You are right -Obama inherited a very serious problem, but he and Congress are making it much, much worse by adding to the problem of spending, why should Dems, R's or anyone give him a pass for not seeing the problem.
You are a strict party-boy, its sad really, are you able to see that the Titanic is sinking, or do you only care about scoring points, as we all collectively suffer? Its folks that think in small terms, that create problems by giving free passes to your club, while condemning the other club for doing teh same thing.
BABronco
05-18-2009, 11:44 AM
On the Glenn Beck program yesterday, he said that the debt of the USA (on social security and Medicare) plus others is rounded up to $56 TRILLION. With $2 TRILLION USD ADDED EVERY YEAR!! Yes, much higher than some stats we usually see -- .
I remember a few years back some guy from the Federal Reserve Bank was on 60 minutes saying our debt was much nearer to 54 Trillion than it was to 12 trillion. He explained that our debt measurement does not calculate in the money congress stole from Social Security and medicare.
Odysseus
05-18-2009, 12:03 PM
People need to stop putting their personal and petty differences aside and focus on the work ahead. "We the people" have become a whining populace more content with our fears than creating any solutions. What needs to happen to resolve this? I told you so is not an answer.
Congress is so wrapped up in gamesmanship that the whole concept of leadership is as foreign as American jobs. Politics has always been a messy business but times now are just silly. When do we stop talking about small ideas and get to the larger real issues at hand?
I resent the blame that Obama for problems that had nothing to do with him. He creates forums for dialog and to end partisanship and yet people are more content to wait, whine, whimper and complain. The tea parties were a childish imitation of the grass roots populism that elected Obama. I am looking forward to the Gay demonstrations then then the Relgious right demonstrations and of course the other protesters who create their own brand of "me too."
What has changed is we avoided some real problems with some short term fixes. We created an awareness of the political process. We opened the door to dialog but we have a long way to go. It has only been a few months. Right now change is at each of our feet. That change is to start talking to each other instead of endless conspiracy theories, one topic rants and the same polarizing understanding that divides us from fixing the problems we all know are common in our country. It counts on Americans acting with one voice.
Rigs11
05-18-2009, 12:07 PM
You are right -Obama inherited a very serious problem, but he and Congress are making it much, much worse by adding to the problem of spending, why should Dems, R's or anyone give him a pass for not seeing the problem.
You are a strict party-boy, its sad really, are you able to see that the Titanic is sinking, or do you only care about scoring points, as we all collectively suffer? Its folks that think in small terms, that create problems by giving free passes to your club, while condemning the other club for doing teh same thing.
Of course i'm a strict party boy, as are you, but only when your party is in power. As soon the other party is in power you all of a sudden are not and demand bipartisanship.Only problem is that the rightards scream for it and yet all they do is oppose obama at every turn with no plan of their own except tax breaks, which if you weren't paying attention did not work.So tell me, what should obama have done with these banks and corporations failing?Nothing? Would that have helped the economy?I'm not giving obama a pass for anything because he has not been in office long enough. Yet you are ready to pass judgement.
barryr
05-18-2009, 12:58 PM
The libs blasted Bush for 9/11 when he had been in office for 8 months, so will be interesting to see how long they give Obama to get things done. It is interesting that Obama has already changed many of his policy ideas from the campaign trail and is continuing with some of Bush's.
Rigs11
05-18-2009, 01:04 PM
the dems provided bush with ample warnings about an attack.the repubs provided obama with a failed economy and two wars. See the difference or too complicated for you?
TailgateNut
05-18-2009, 01:06 PM
Way to complicated for BarryR
barryr
05-18-2009, 02:16 PM
the dems provided bush with ample warnings about an attack.the repubs provided obama with a failed economy and two wars. See the difference or too complicated for you?
Yeah, the democrats were so worried about terrorism, that's why they sat on their hands and did nothing except throw a couple bombs at tents in the desert. Reality is too complicated for you.
barryr
05-18-2009, 02:18 PM
Way to complicated for BarryR
This from someone who still needs help taking a crap. And you have the wrong "to"-too. But they do teach that in 2nd grade, so you'll get there eventually.
Rigs11
05-18-2009, 03:06 PM
Yeah, the democrats were so worried about terrorism, that's why they sat on their hands and did nothing except throw a couple bombs at tents in the desert. Reality is too complicated for you.
Oh should we have gone after saddam instead?that would of helped right?oh wait all your daddy bush's wars did was increase terrorism and waste close to a trillion dollars.is that the reality of which you speak?
Odysseus
05-18-2009, 03:55 PM
The libs blasted Bush for 9/11 when he had been in office for 8 months, so will be interesting to see how long they give Obama to get things done. It is interesting that Obama has already changed many of his policy ideas from the campaign trail and is continuing with some of Bush's.
What part of "first terrorist attack on American soil" don't you get?
Obama is getting grilled by the left because he's a centrist. He's getting crap from the right even though he is putting exactly what they are asking for in their hands. I admire him not because he's an appeaser but because he has the stones to be President. Bush leaned on Cheney and Rumsfield. He should have listened to Powell. The people who actually gave him good information he fired or let go. I defend Bush when he is right but when's wrong he is just wrong.
Obama backed off several very strong liberal issues because his focus is ALL OF US including the ones that did not vote for him or support him. His biggest obstacle is not generating ideas but getting adults to support the NATIONAL issue of AMERICA. We are so distracted as a nation.
Look up the BYD E6. China is becoming innovators. They building better, faster, and cheaper cars. This is a 100% electric car. Warren Buffet has a 10% stake in this company. Think about it. CHINA is a world leader in innovation. Republicans need to focus on changing with the rest of the world because the longer we hold on to inertia the more countries take our leadership role from us.
TailgateNut
05-19-2009, 07:03 AM
Yeah, the democrats were so worried about terrorism, that's why they sat on their hands and did nothing except throw a couple bombs at tents in the desert. Reality is too complicated for you.
On the other hand, Bush decides to fabricate BS info, hoodwink the whole damn country in supporting his attack of a country which had NOTHING to do with 9-11, and in doing so, he alienates not only other countries, but also those citizens who didn't vote for him but believed he would exact revenge upon those who attacked us.
He committed treason by ousting a CIA agent.
He disregarded any and all intelligence which didn't support his agenda.
He used scare tactics to keep the sheep bunched up in support of his endeavors.
He endangered our troops by envoking the use of interrogationg techniques which do not adhere to the rules of the Geneva Convention, and by doing so
actually assists Al Queda in the recruitment of thousands of new terrorists.
He totally ignores the tens of thousands of american citizens in the Gulf States during and after Katrina, just because they do not fit the GOP model citizen. (Rich, White, Pompous ASS).
He spies on ordinary citizens through his use of wiretapping and Patriot act farce.
He allows Cheneys' cronies to line their coffers with hard earned tax dollars by awarding and allowing no-bid contracts to companies which have not performed up to standard and have robbed the goverment through fraudulant billing practices.
He and Cheney TOTALLY ingnore the economy sliding into an abyss. An abyss created in part by their lack of oversight and regulation of financial markets. Another one of the "take care of your own" policies.
So you may say the democrats DID NOTHING, but in hindsight, it may be much better than DOING EVERYTHING WRONG!
TailgateNut
05-19-2009, 07:08 AM
This from someone who still needs help taking a crap. And you have the wrong "to"-too. But they do teach that in 2nd grade, so you'll get there eventually.
I feel sorry for you. You are a very sad excuse for a human being. I am however impressed that a person as blind as you are, can toe the line as well as you do. Must be due to the GOP blood which runs through your veins.
Smiling Assassin27
05-19-2009, 10:16 AM
Here's some change that we can, uh, live with...
Barack Obama 'breaks four aid pledges for Africa'
US President Barack Obama has broken four campaign promises on overseas aid and risks reversing the successes of the Bush administration, HIV-Aids activists have claimed.
By Mike Pflanz in Nairobi
Published: 2:50PM BST 18 May 2009
US President Barack Obama under pressure Photo: REUTERS
Key pledges to boost money for Aids funds, education programmes and poverty-reduction schemes have all been missed, the Global Aids Alliance (GAA) said.
The Washington-based organisation said that figures from Mr Obama's May 7 budget request to the US Congress set the administration on a path to breaking its campaign promises to the people of Africa.
Mr Obama had also promised to contribute about £1.8 billion on the Global Fund to fight Aids, tuberculosis and malaria, but his budget request fell short by £1.2 billion, the GAA said.
It calculated that this meant that one million people will not receive treatment for HIV, and 2.9 million women will miss out on services to help prevent passing the virus to their unborn children.
"Underfunding these critical programmes has grave consequences, especially during the current global economic crisis," said Paul Zeitz, director of the GAA, speaking in the Kenyan capital, Nairobi.
"President Obama has a moral obligation to demonstrate global leadership on behalf of the poorest and most marginalised people of the world, especially in Africa.
"But by turning his back on those needs, the President is betraying the trust of tens of millions of people around the world."
The two other broken promises related to stalling promised payments to fund education, and failing to increase foreign aid as a whole by a rate which will allow the president to meet his commitment to double such assistance by 2012.
Rigs11
05-19-2009, 10:32 AM
Ah silly rightards.So worried about spending money in other countries.Yet the first to scream socialism when money is spent here.Aren't you also the same idiots that say obama is bankrupting the country? So shouldn't you be happy?
Smiling Assassin27
05-19-2009, 10:37 AM
Ah silly rightards.So worried about spending money in other countries.Yet the first to scream socialism when money is spent here.Aren't you also the same idiots that say obama is bankrupting the country? So shouldn't you be happy?
The point is not the spending, fool. It's the fact that this liar ran on funding the programs fully and once again had to renege on, and hang out to dry those who depended on him to fund them, and voted for him because of it.
We have a complet and utter liar in the White House who has promised the world and delivered Rhode Island. Come to think of it, not much change at all.
TailgateNut
05-19-2009, 10:50 AM
The point is not the spending, fool. It's the fact that this liar ran on funding the programs fully and once again had to renege on, and hang out to dry those who depended on him to fund them, and voted for him because of it.
We have a complet and utter liar in the White House who has promised the world and delivered Rhode Island. Come to think of it, not much change at all.
A liar? You should be bowing, and worshipping him as you did the Liar who "occupied" the WH for the previous 8yrs. Or do you just worship "White Liars/ lies"?
I didn't realize the citizens of Africa were allowed to vote for the POTUS!
How's your aneurysm? I think it's just a matter of time before something will POP! You should get it checked.
BTW: I quite fine with cutting any and all programs which do not benefit the "homeland" as your hero used to call our country.
Smiling Assassin27
05-19-2009, 11:01 AM
A liar? You should be bowing, and worshipping him as you did the Liar who "occupied" the WH for the previous 8yrs. Or do you just worship "White Liars/ lies"?
I didn't realize the citizens of Africa were allowed to vote for the POTUS!
How's your aneurysm? I think it's just a matter of time before something will POP! You should get it checked.
BTW: I quite fine with cutting any and all programs which do not benefit the "homeland" as your hero used to call our country.
Uh, TN, we've been through this a million times. W was a snake and I've said as much here over a hundred times. You seem to be out of bullets. A sure sign is that you brand me a W lover when we've been round and round about my sentiments toward that guy. This is the same tack that Republicans take when they're out of bullets--they label someone a liberal or a socialist and ignore the issue. So let me spell it out for you once again.
The question is what has actually changed. Well, W--the guy you love to hate--committed a fixed amount for overseas aid, specifically AIDS prevention and general health aid. The change--try to follow me here--is that Obama pledged MORE than W for these causes in hopes of garnering votes from the communities that deliver and minister tangible aid to the suffering of Africa. In return, these organizations, and all whom they influence, handed over votes to Obama. Now that he's elected, he's abandoned those promises and with them, over 3 million Africans whom he said would get the AIDS prevention drugs and aid they needed.
Simply put, TN, the status quo was sending money to Africa for a cause that is humanitarian in nature. Obama vowed to change the status quo for the better by sending MORE money. He was elected and now is sending LESS money, thereby jeopardizing 3 million lives. Now THAT, my friend, is change.
Let's stop the 'you worshipped W' canard and get down to brass tacks. It's OK, you can admit what everyone here already knows--Obama has gone back on many of his promises which he used to get elected. He's a deceiver just like W.
Rigs11
05-19-2009, 12:06 PM
The point is not the spending, fool. It's the fact that this liar ran on funding the programs fully and once again had to renege on, and hang out to dry those who depended on him to fund them, and voted for him because of it.
We have a complet and utter liar in the White House who has promised the world and delivered Rhode Island. Come to think of it, not much change at all.
the humanitarian speaks!So now it's not about the spending? make up your freaking mind. No wonder your party is going down the shetter.did you ever think with that crevace you call a brain that obama can't please everyone?guaranteed that if he would have spent more than W, you would have railed him for that too.
I remember a few years back some guy from the Federal Reserve Bank was on 60 minutes saying our debt was much nearer to 54 Trillion than it was to 12 trillion. He explained that our debt measurement does not calculate in the money congress stole from Social Security and medicare.
I believe that was the former comptroller of the United States.
Smiling Assassin27
05-19-2009, 01:06 PM
the humanitarian speaks!So now it's not about the spending? make up your freaking mind. No wonder your party is going down the shetter.did you ever think with that crevace you call a brain that obama can't please everyone?guaranteed that if he would have spent more than W, you would have railed him for that too.
i'm sorry you just can't grasp such a simple and easy to understand argument. 'my party' is not the Republican party, pay attention. insults are only transparent masks used by the uninformed to not have to engage an argument. what's next, rigsy, a bumper sticker slogan?
the issue is not now, nor has it EVER been the spending, with regard to this issue. it's the PROMISE, dude. you may feel altogether comfy with the person you vote for lying to get elected and then telling the electorate to go pound sand. i am not. not fulfilling a promise shows a lack of planning, a lack of integrity, or both. which is it, rigsy? try to address the argument, not insult intelligence, ignore the point, and cover your arse as you run scared from yet another engagement.
Bronco Bob
05-19-2009, 09:26 PM
The libs blasted Bush for 9/11 when he had been in office for 8 months,
8 months in which he was constantly being warned that al-Quada was
planning something big and 8 months in which Bush chose to ignore
the warnings. Only an idiot or a Republican wouldn't blast Bush for that.
so will be interesting to see how long they give Obama to get things done. It is interesting that Obama has already changed many of his policy ideas from the campaign trail and is continuing with some of Bush's.
If Obama is constantly being warned we are in grave danger and yet still
ignores it, then you would have a point. But right now Obama is working
his ass off trying to fix things.
Rigs11
05-19-2009, 10:04 PM
i'm sorry you just can't grasp such a simple and easy to understand argument. 'my party' is not the Republican party, pay attention. insults are only transparent masks used by the uninformed to not have to engage an argument. what's next, rigsy, a bumper sticker slogan?
the issue is not now, nor has it EVER been the spending, with regard to this issue. it's the PROMISE, dude. you may feel altogether comfy with the person you vote for lying to get elected and then telling the electorate to go pound sand. i am not. not fulfilling a promise shows a lack of planning, a lack of integrity, or both. which is it, rigsy? try to address the argument, not insult intelligence, ignore the point, and cover your arse as you run scared from yet another engagement.if you believed that Obama or any president for that matter would fulfill all promises than you better wake up.you act like obama has been tje only pres to do this.funny lately everyone that bashes Obama likes to point out that they are not repubs and that they didn't like bush blah blah blah. It's a copout, nothing more.Oh and if your poor widdle feelings are getting hurt by the name calling perhaps you should stick to the football side of the forum.
Odysseus
05-19-2009, 10:34 PM
The point is not the spending, fool. It's the fact that this liar ran on funding the programs fully and once again had to renege on, and hang out to dry those who depended on him to fund them, and voted for him because of it.
We have a complet and utter liar in the White House who has promised the world and delivered Rhode Island. Come to think of it, not much change at all.
To call a man who has kept the majority of his promise to date a liar is a little bit harsh. Apparently the level of responsibilities you have in this world is pretty limited.
To call a man who has kept the majority of his promise to date a liar is a little bit harsh. Apparently the level of responsibilities you have in this world is pretty limited.
Obama has not done many things, I did not expect, and he did do the right thing in not releasing photos that would have meant more American blood spilt.
What gets my goat, is when he tries to suggest that he is cutting spending, when the over-all picture is that we are track on doubling the debt which he inherited from Bush (which in all honesty, is what Bush did while in office.) I also wish Obama would just speak to folks without a teleprompter, it doesnt help him come off well, if he needs one all the time (in terms of not being able to speak from his heart.)
Odysseus
05-21-2009, 02:26 AM
Obama has not done many things, I did not expect, and he did do the right thing in not releasing photos that would have meant more American blood spilt.
What gets my goat, is when he tries to suggest that he is cutting spending, when the over-all picture is that we are track on doubling the debt which he inherited from Bush (which in all honesty, is what Bush did while in office.) I also wish Obama would just speak to folks without a teleprompter, it doesnt help him come off well, if he needs one all the time (in terms of not being able to speak from his heart.)
I bought an energy efficient furnace that cost me quite a bit. Furnace lifetimes are pretty long. I thought it was a bit reckless at the time but when fuel costs spiked I was suddenly a genius. If we as a nation do not start competing as a nation we will individually all fail.
I wish that Bush would actually use the Teleprompter. He sounded like Biden on booze most of the time. It was embarrassing. The talking heads that attack him for his use of the teleprompter ALL use teleprompter or some kind of notes. As a professional key note speaker I am confused by how many people get hung up on the slightest thing this guy does wrong. Obama does a lot of town hall meetings where there really is no teleprompter but nobody seems to give him credit for the breadth and depth of the topic range he has to be proficient on. I don't think American's get how smart this guy is.
TailgateNut
05-21-2009, 06:08 AM
Obama does a lot of town hall meetings where there really is no teleprompter but nobody seems to give him credit for the breadth and depth of the topic range he has to be proficient on. I don't think American's get how smart this guy is.
Some of the "GOP Geniuses" on the OM have no clue how intelligent Obama is, and how well he is dealing with "the Legacy" of Dumbya. No one in their right mind would ever truly believe the McCain and Palin team could have done any better.
I bought an energy efficient furnace that cost me quite a bit. Furnace lifetimes are pretty long. I thought it was a bit reckless at the time but when fuel costs spiked I was suddenly a genius. If we as a nation do not start competing as a nation we will individually all fail.
I wish that Bush would actually use the Teleprompter. He sounded like Biden on booze most of the time. It was embarrassing. The talking heads that attack him for his use of the teleprompter ALL use teleprompter or some kind of notes. As a professional key note speaker I am confused by how many people get hung up on the slightest thing this guy does wrong. Obama does a lot of town hall meetings where there really is no teleprompter but nobody seems to give him credit for the breadth and depth of the topic range he has to be proficient on. I don't think American's get how smart this guy is.
I dont think that Obama is dumb, just a tad scripted, but your right Bush's presentation was horrific most of the time, and even when he was right on a issue, he couldnt sell it...
Odysseus
05-21-2009, 10:48 PM
Obama has not done many things, I did not expect, and he did do the right thing in not releasing photos that would have meant more American blood spilt.
What gets my goat, is when he tries to suggest that he is cutting spending, when the over-all picture is that we are track on doubling the debt which he inherited from Bush (which in all honesty, is what Bush did while in office.) I also wish Obama would just speak to folks without a teleprompter, it doesnt help him come off well, if he needs one all the time (in terms of not being able to speak from his heart.)
I like what he did today regarding opening a national debate on torture. He has opened quite a few national discussion but let's stay on this one topic. He did not say that his point of view was right. He simply called for checks and balances. Who watches the watchers? A good question.
Personally if I have a prisoner whose killed several people on my team the only reason I don't take him apart like Mr. Potatohead is the rules of engagement. I don't think I lack morality but in that instance I would be wrong. Our biggest problem is a corruption of our moral fiber. Here is where our real wars are fought, won, or lost. Obama is making a very important point that is clearly thought out.
Odysseus
05-21-2009, 10:56 PM
Some of the "GOP Geniuses" on the OM have no clue how intelligent Obama is, and how well he is dealing with "the Legacy" of Dumbya. No one in their right mind would ever truly believe the McCain and Palin team could have done any better.
McCain could have picked anyone else but Palin and made more sense. Palin is dumber than Bush and despite her snippy wit is not someone to be trusted. He would have done better with Jodie Foster the actress. She would have been relentless in the debates and despite not having the political experience would have taken on a lot of the tough stuff that Palin still avoids.
Odysseus
05-21-2009, 11:02 PM
I dont think that Obama is dumb, just a tad scripted, but your right Bush's presentation was horrific most of the time, and even when he was right on a issue, he couldnt sell it...
Bush was such a bad communicator that even when he was right he raised more questions than he answered. I don't know which hurt cowboy reputation worst Broke Back Mountain or Broke Down Bush.
TailgateNut
05-22-2009, 06:35 AM
I don't know which hurt cowboy reputation worst Broke Back Mountain or Broke Down Bush.
^5 That's some funny ****, true, but funny.
Odysseus
05-22-2009, 10:12 AM
^5 That's some funny ****, true, but funny.
I remember when being a cowboy was a good thing. Times have changed.
Rohirrim
05-22-2009, 11:19 AM
Some of the "GOP Geniuses" on the OM have no clue how intelligent Obama is, and how well he is dealing with "the Legacy" of Dumbya. No one in their right mind would ever truly believe the McCain and Palin team could have done any better.
Had McCain been elected he would have gone down as the worst president of all time. First thing he would have done, because he's so bull-headed, is allowed all the banks to fail. We'd probably be sitting on a double digit unemployment rate by now. Of course, who knows? Maybe Palin's Kenyan witch-doctor would have concocted some spell and pulled us out of it?
TailgateNut
05-22-2009, 11:20 AM
Maybe Palin's Kenyan witch-doctor would have concocted some spell and pulled us out of it?
LOL She was a "winner", at least in the eyes of the GOP Sheep!
Rohirrim
05-22-2009, 11:25 AM
LOL She was a "winner", at least in the eyes of the GOP Sheep!
I've been on a Roman history kick lately and one book I was reading the other day has quotes from famous Romans complaining that the reason Rome is failing is because too many Romans have lost touch with the Gods. They've lost their Roman "values" and haven't kept up with the proper sacrifices. Made me think of the rightard fundy whack-jobs like Palin. ROFL!
TailgateNut
05-22-2009, 11:40 AM
I've been on a Roman history kick lately and one book I was reading the other day has quotes from famous Romans complaining that the reason Rome is failing is because too many Romans have lost touch with the Gods. They've lost their Roman "values" and haven't kept up with the proper sacrifices. Made me think of the rightard fundy whack-jobs like Palin. ROFL!
It didn't have anything to do with the "two class" civilization and their conversations with their gods?
Odysseus
05-22-2009, 07:55 PM
I've been on a Roman history kick lately and one book I was reading the other day has quotes from famous Romans complaining that the reason Rome is failing is because too many Romans have lost touch with the Gods. They've lost their Roman "values" and haven't kept up with the proper sacrifices. Made me think of the rightard fundy whack-jobs like Palin. ROFL!
The Visagoths are here. In the end the Roman Army depended on strangers to bear their own standards. This lead to the Visagoths gaining a foothold and asking for their rights separate within the Roman empire. It was the divisions within the Roman empire that lead to it's entropy and destruction.
Cheney is no better than Blackbeard. He has stranded the boat, took all the booty and now selling the crew to stand fast while he sails away. Fear is a powerful manipulator. I wish that more people knew Cheney. The man is a tragedy of a person.
Bronco Bob
05-22-2009, 08:27 PM
I posted this about 1 1/2 years ago -- back then Dems seemed to agree with me, and understand that spending was the problem -- not the solution.
Spending in Iraq was the problem. The Dems felt the money should be
spent here in America to help Americans. Which is what is now being done.
Therefore problem solved.
Odysseus
05-22-2009, 08:36 PM
Spending in Iraq was the problem. The Dems felt the money should be
spent here in America to help Americans. Which is what is now being done.
Therefore problem solved.
I don't understand why spending money in America is bad and spending money in Iraq is good? We have put billions of dollars into that country and literally nothing in our own country. When is spending spending?
Bush was such a bad communicator that even when he was right he raised more questions than he answered. I don't know which hurt cowboy reputation worst Broke Back Mountain or Broke Down Bush.
Agreed...
For those that met him behind the scenes, he came accros better -- but with a politician, one would think that of all things they should be able to speak well.
Spending in Iraq was the problem. The Dems felt the money should be
spent here in America to help Americans. Which is what is now being done.
Therefore problem solved.
I wish the problem was solved, but war costs are the same (at least I think so) and domestic costs and commitments appear to have doubled, from when Bush was in office...
If we are bankrupt our military efforts are negated, and our efforts for social justice are erased -- almost every other issue is moot to me.
I don't understand why spending money in America is bad and spending money in Iraq is good? We have put billions of dollars into that country and literally nothing in our own country. When is spending spending?
Over spending regardless of where, will likely have the same effect...
But to answer your question, I think that R's typically are willing to over-spend on their pet projects (military/Big Business) and Dems are willing to overspend on domestic programs -- so when is spending an "investment" and at what point does is it create massive inflation?
I think we are at the edge of a cliff that may be impossible to pull back from (as we may have steped off it already) and those in charge are also not quite sure how close they can get, without falling off. Is it arrogance that makes them want to hang out right at the edge, or do they want to fall off, as it means much more power for both political parties?
I'm trying to figure much of this out, but the increase of the actual money supply should scare the hell out of folks -- who should demand for all parties a more responsible approach.
Odysseus
05-28-2009, 12:53 AM
Over spending regardless of where, will likely have the same effect...
But to answer your question, I think that R's typically are willing to over-spend on their pet projects (military/Big Business) and Dems are willing to overspend on domestic programs -- so when is spending an "investment" and at what point does is it create massive inflation?
I think we are at the edge of a cliff that may be impossible to pull back from (as we may have steped off it already) and those in charge are also not quite sure how close they can get, without falling off. Is it arrogance that makes them want to hang out right at the edge, or do they want to fall off, as it means much more power for both political parties?
I'm trying to figure much of this out, but the increase of the actual money supply should scare the hell out of folks -- who should demand for all parties a more responsible approach.
It will come down to people taking an interest in what is actually happening instead of listening to what ANY of the talking heads are saying.
It will come down to people demanding a CONGRESS that works. All politics is local politics. Our responsibility is to make the people to govern us accountable for the jobs they are doing. We are not doing that.
We are all so self absorbed in "our issues" that the thing which will unify us will ultimately be the disaster we refused to avert.
The Republicans created a "free market" system based on burning liquidity. The Democrats are upset because it actually worked for a time and they have yet to speak directly to this issue. Instead of creating accountability they seem more intent on "Democratic" issues which, for the time being, is actually what needs to happen. As things devolved we will get back to some of the real issues but like you suggested...at what price?