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Bronco Rob
05-15-2009, 03:20 PM
Quarterback rankings: Intangibles make the best leaders




Many factors go into grading a quarterback, and every scout places different levels of emphasis on different aspects of the game. Scouts also must consider things that can't be measured: Leadership, the quarterback's role within a system and performance under pressure. All this makes for uncertainty and goes a long way toward explaining why it is so hard to find agreement on players at the NFL's marquee position.

Here are our top 20 quarterbacks:


1. Peyton Manning, Colts. Critics point to the postseason loss to San Diego, but Manning is the reigning MVP and threw for more than 4,000 yards for the ninth time in 11 NFL seasons, tossed 27 touchdowns to just 12 interceptions and completed 66.8 percent of his passes. And he did it all while recovering from offseason knee surgery. He also had to adjust to life without the real Marvin Harrison. Healthy and with nearly the whole supporting cast back, Manning again should be the NFL's top quarterback in 2009.

2. Tom Brady, Patriots. Before that fateful September day when his knee turned the wrong way, Brady was on his way to becoming perhaps the best QB in league history. After missing the rest of the season, he is practicing with a knee brace and ready to battle Manning for the No. 1 spot. Brady never had elite mobility anyway, so as long as the system and the receivers are in place we expect vintage Brady in '09.

3. Drew Brees, Saints. Last season, Brees became the first QB since Dan Marino in '84 to pass for more than 5,000 yards. Brees also completed 65 percent of his passes and led the NFL in TD passes (34), attempts and completions and was second in yards per attempt (8.0). Here's the best part: He did it with RB Reggie Bush, TE Jeremy Shockey and WR Marques Colston -- his top three weapons -- missing a combined 15 games. They're all healthy now.


4. Carson Palmer, Bengals. Palmer has received the all-clear on his elbow, but it remains to be seen what kind of arm strength the man nicknamed "Jugs" will show in '09. Still, he is a smart, experienced leader who can win games on his own. The good news is an improved line, veteran receivers and talk of a balanced attack won't put the weight of the season on Palmer's arm.

5. Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers. The Steelers were battered by injuries and hurt by inconsistent line play for much of '08, so Big Ben didn't have his best statistical season. But he saved his best for the biggest games, didn't he? He is a tough, clutch performer who wins big games. As he heads into his prime and the Steelers become more entrenched in a pass-oriented team, he will get more chances to shine.

6. Philip Rivers, Chargers. Rivers has moved into the top tier of NFL quarterbacks the past two seasons. In '08, he set career highs in completion percentage, yards per attempt and touchdowns, and cleared the 4,000-yard plateau for the first time in his career. With LaDainian Tomlinson seemingly in decline, San Diego could lean more heavily on the passing game. Rivers has the perimeter receivers, and TE Antonio Gates is healthy and could again be a difference-maker.

7. Donovan McNabb, Eagles. Contrary to those who think McNabb is on the decline, he set a personal career high in passing yards last year and the 23 touchdowns were his most since 2004. McNabb still has a strong, accurate arm, so this season looks promising. The line has been upgraded significantly, and potential impact players have been added at the skill positions.

8. Kurt Warner, Cardinals. Warner got paid in the offseason, and now he can focus on putting his quick release back to work in the Cardinals' explosive attack. It looks as though all the pieces will be back in '09, and as long as he stays healthy -- a bigger concern as he turns 38 in June -- another 4,000-yard, 30-touchdown season is within reach.

9. Eli Manning, Giants. Giants fans will be irked that Eli isn't ranked higher. But Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer are gone, and we're not sure he will have a go-to receiver in '09. If they are relying on rookie Hakeem Nicks, Manning is in trouble. Elite quarterbacks can carry teams on their back, but Manning failed last year when Burress and Brandon Jacobs got hurt. The Super Bowl 42 win was great, but this is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league.

10. Tony Romo, Cowboys. The Cowboys' plan to run more in '09 speaks to the strength of their running backs and the relative inexperience and lack of depth at wide receiver. It also raises a flag with regard to the coaches' confidence in Romo after an up-and-down '08 campaign. He will be on a short leash as Dallas looks to limit turnovers and costly errors.

11. Matt Hasselbeck, Seahawks. This team goes as Hasselbeck goes, and that was good until last year. He turns 34 in September and has a history of back and leg problems. His receiving corps, even with T.J. Houshmandzadeh, lacks an explosive weapon. Still, Hasselbeck has proven capable of raising the play of those around him, so we're holding out hope for '09.

12. Jay Cutler, Bears. Cutler has a big arm, a competitive spirit, plenty of mobility and a knack for making big plays. The Bears should have an improved offensive line and a strong running game, and Cutler will be motivated to prove himself after a turbulent offseason. The big question: Who's he throwing to? We like TE Greg Olsen, but Devin Hester is terribly inconsistent and there isn't much else.

13. Matt Ryan, Falcons. The '08 Offensive Rookie of the Year, Ryan has a strong, accurate arm and displays more maturity and intangibles than anyone could have expected. Ryan has the support of a strong running game, and the addition of All-Pro TE Tony Gonzalez will make him more effective in the short passing game. Ryan is off to a nice start, and he should continue to move up this list.

14. Aaron Rodgers, Packers. Rodgers was among the league's top passers in his first year as a starter, throwing for 4,038 yards, 28 touchdowns and just 13 interceptions and showing a tremendous amount of toughness by playing much of the season after separating his shoulder. The talk in Green Bay has been about the defense, but everyone except OT Mark Tauscher returns on offense and Rodgers is sure to improve in Year 2 as a starter.

15. Jake Delhomme, Panthers. Delhomme is a fiery, emotional leader who got his team to the playoffs in '08, but he then turned the ball over six times in Carolina's first playoff game. He also hasn't delivered a strong statistical season since '05. He is in decline, for sure, but has a strong line and a great running game. Panthers coach John Fox will try to get him back on track by asking him to just play within the system.

16. Joe Flacco, Ravens. Flacco has a big arm and certainly proved himself as a rookie, but he was protected by an elite defense and the AFC's No. 1 running game. The coaches gave Flacco conservative game plans to limit his mistakes, yet he still threw 12 interceptions (14 touchdowns) and struggled at times against aggressive, pressure defenses. There is plenty of room to improve.

17. Matt Schaub, Texans. When healthy, he can look like a top-10 QB. Schaub just hasn't been able to stay on the field. Since coming to Houston in '07, he has missed 10 games. Last season, he passed for 3,043 yards in just 11 games while completing 66.1 percent of his passes and putting up an 8-yard per attempt average. With a growing arsenal of weapons led by WR Andre Johnson and TE Owen Daniels and consistency in the coaching staff with offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and line coach Alex Gibbs, Schaub could skyrocket up this list if able to stay healthy.

18. Jason Campbell, Redskins. Campbell struggled in Jim Zorn's West Coast offense last year, particularly in the second half of the season when he didn't post a 250-yard game. He also threw just five touchdown passes in that span. Redskins officials tried to trade for Cutler and trade up to draft Mark Sanchez in the offseason, so they don't believe Campbell can turn it around. He can be successful, however, in a system that takes advantage of his strong arm and athleticism.

19. Chad Pennington, Dolphins. We love Pennington. He's smart, deadly accurate, a natural leader and consummate pro and has a better arm than advertised. He made a run at NFL MVP honors last year by bringing the 1-15 Dolphins to the playoffs. With all that said, he has played only a full 16-game schedule three times in nine NFL seasons and it is only a matter of time before heir apparent Chad Henne gets a shot.

ROFL! 20. Matt Cassel, Chiefs.ROFL! Cassel wildly exceeded expectations in New England last year, but a good portion of his success can be attributed to the Patriots' system. New coach Todd Haley certainly will play to Cassel's strengths, inserting him in a pass-first, shotgun-heavy attack. Smart coaching and a favorable system are enough to keep him on this list, but he will not be lining up behind Patriots' line or have Randy Moss and Wes Welker outside. And it remains to be seen whether RB Larry Johnson has anything left to offer.




http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=548865

Bob's your Information Minister
05-15-2009, 03:26 PM
Cassel > Pennington, Campbell, Schaub

Personally I'd take him over Delhomme, too. That guy is about at the end of his rope.

gyldenlove
05-15-2009, 03:40 PM
Cassel > Pennington, Campbell, Schaub

Personally I'd take him over Delhomme, too. That guy is about at the end of his rope.

Talentwise Schaub and Pennington are both quite far ahead of Cassel, factoring in injury proneness the picture may tilt slightly, but Schaub and Pennington are both superior QBs. Jason Campbell has no business in a top 20.

Inkana7
05-15-2009, 03:42 PM
Barring injury, Schaub is just as talented as any QB in the NFL. He was damn impressive when he came back last year.

gyldenlove
05-15-2009, 03:46 PM
I would say:

1. Manning, 2. Brady, 3. Brees, 4. Rivers, 5. Mcnabb, 6. Rogers, 7. Cutler, 8. Romo, 9. Roethlisberger, 10. Baby Manning, 11. Ryan, 12. Palmer, 13. Warner, 14. Hasselbeck, 15. Delhomme, 16. Schaub, 17. Pennington, 18. Garrard, 19. Garcia, 20. Cassel.

Sacked by Croel
05-15-2009, 03:50 PM
**** Cassel. Cement feet got sacked more than any QB in football last year. If you like to be in 3rd and 18, he's your guy.

summerdenver
05-15-2009, 03:51 PM
Carson palmer is bit high and I would also bump Big Ben above Brees. Other than that not a lot to complain.

Inkana7
05-15-2009, 03:52 PM
Carson palmer is bit high and I would also bump Big Ben above Brees. Other than that not a lot to complain.

*spits water at screen*

Did you really just type that?

watermock
05-15-2009, 03:55 PM
I'd bump Rodgers down 4 spots.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-15-2009, 03:57 PM
Talentwise Schaub and Pennington are both quite far ahead of Cassel.

Disagree. Pennington has a much weaker arm. Schaub's is nothing to write home about, either.

And Cassel wins the mobility contest by a mile.

Pennington is a never-was has-been. Schaub has pretty much been a huge disappointment in Houston.

At least Cassel hasn't failed just yet.

Inkana7
05-15-2009, 04:01 PM
Schaub is a lot to write home about. No one really gets to see him because he's 6-6 and gets crushed a lot. He's a fantastic talent, however. And Pennington is a winner.

Pennington has led a team to the playoffs, multiple times, and Schaub is just a physically better QB than Cassel.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-15-2009, 04:03 PM
Pennington is a winner.


Herm, is that you?

Inkana7
05-15-2009, 04:06 PM
Herm, is that you?

He led an offense that included the star studded receiving options Ted Ginn rookie Davone Bess and Greg Camarillo to 11 wins. That's damn impressive.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-15-2009, 04:08 PM
He led an offense that included the star studded receiving options Ted Ginn rookie Davone Bess and Greg Camarillo to 11 wins. That's damn impressive.

And he will never, ever win a Super Bowl.

DeuceOfClub
05-15-2009, 04:13 PM
Cassel will be out of the NFL in 3 seasons.

Ironlung
05-15-2009, 04:17 PM
Cassel will be out of the NFL in 3 seasons.

beat me to it.

I mean, look how taking other teams backups has worked for the chiefs up until now. Elvis Grbac and Steve Bono, in their defense I guess they atleast started games between high school and the nfl.

SportinOne
05-15-2009, 04:19 PM
Cassel > Pennington, Campbell, Schaub

Personally I'd take him over Delhomme, too. That guy is about at the end of his rope.

You are HIGH, Bob, HIGHER than I ever have been in my life.

Cassell took a team that went 16-0 and went 11-5.

All of the QB's that you think he's > than would have done a better job last year. Now he's in KC which has been one of the worst teams in the NFL over the last few years. He doesn't have McDaniels, he doesn't have Moss.

SportinOne
05-15-2009, 04:20 PM
Schaub is a lot to write home about. No one really gets to see him because he's 6-6 and gets crushed a lot. He's a fantastic talent, however. And Pennington is a winner.

Pennington has led a team to the playoffs, multiple times, and Schaub is just a physically better QB than Cassel.

Wait, so you are saying that despite being on a bad team that a quarterback can be a good player?

Bonkers.

Bronco Rob
05-15-2009, 04:30 PM
Elvis Grbac > Matt Casell















:wave:

loborugger
05-15-2009, 04:32 PM
Cutler not in the top 10? That makes our trade look a bit better, no. But alas, opinions count little towards the 'W' column!

With that said, go Orton!!!

Arkie
05-15-2009, 04:42 PM
bull**** > dog****, cat****, bird****, horse****

Personally I'd take it over Monkey****, too. That **** is about at the end of its rope.

What's your point?

telluride
05-15-2009, 04:50 PM
Scouts also must consider things that can't be measured: Leadership, the quarterback's role within a system and performance under pressure.

Cutler fails on all three counts, which apparently is why he's rated so low.

Greybeard
05-15-2009, 05:04 PM
Disagree. Pennington has a much weaker arm. Schaub's is nothing to write home about, either.

And Cassel wins the mobility contest by a mile.

Pennington is a never-was has-been. Schaub has pretty much been a huge disappointment in Houston.

At least Cassel hasn't failed just yet.

What does arm have to do with it?

Ryan Leaf had a stronger arm than Joe Montana . . .

-----

summerdenver
05-15-2009, 05:43 PM
*spits water at screen*

Did you really just type that?

Yep and here is my reasoning. Ben is not a perfect QB and his style of play only works if he can pull off one or two low probability throws per game. More often than not he just does that. He already has two rings and in all probability will go to HOF when he retires.

The problem with Brees is physical, he is 6' and playing behind OL and DL who are taller and typically with long arms. He does a great job of moving the pocket and finding the passing lanes but it is a limitation nevertheless.

leon
05-15-2009, 05:47 PM
Mike Vick Is #1

Hamrob
05-15-2009, 06:06 PM
O.K. where's Orton on that list? So, he's a bottom 12 QB heh?

All kidding aside. I think Orton will finish up in the top 10 this year. Really I do...and I'm stil a big Cutler fan!

Barring Injury...Orton will throw for 4k and 25 tds. That's my guess. This offense is too good for him not to play well. He's good enough to be a star with the right supporting cast! I say this...even though I'm still pissed that JC is gone.

I think Cutler will have a big season too. Great QB's make average WR's great...I just don't know much about their O-coordinator though to make a guess where he'll finish up. I do like the fact that he has Bennett and Olson. I'm really looking forward to see how Bennett does with his old QB throwing to him.

KCStud
05-15-2009, 07:09 PM
I would place Big Ben over Palmer simply because he makes the big plays when they need to happen.

I would also like to know how the Patriots had a better OL than KC last year when they gave up more sacks? Cassel is just as mobile as Thigpen.

And I would definitely put Cassel over "noodle arm" Pennington and Schaub. Schaub had the best WR in the AFC, a decent OL and a very good rookie RB and he was still average.

Inkana7
05-15-2009, 07:30 PM
Yep and here is my reasoning. Ben is not a perfect QB and his style of play only works if he can pull off one or two low probability throws per game. More often than not he just does that. He already has two rings and in all probability will go to HOF when he retires.

The problem with Brees is physical, he is 6' and playing behind OL and DL who are taller and typically with long arms. He does a great job of moving the pocket and finding the passing lanes but it is a limitation nevertheless.

Everything Brees has accomplished, particularly in the past two years, says that it's not.

oubronco
05-15-2009, 08:24 PM
just as I suspected Orton's NOWHERE to be found

Bob's your Information Minister
05-15-2009, 08:34 PM
What does arm have to do with it?

Ryan Leaf had a stronger arm than Joe Montana . . .

-----

We're talking about pure talent.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-15-2009, 08:35 PM
beat me to it.

I mean, look how taking other teams backups has worked for the chiefs up until now. Elvis Grbac and Steve Bono, in their defense I guess they atleast started games between high school and the nfl.

Worked out pretty good with Trent Green.

Barring Injury...Orton will throw for 4k and 25 tds. That's my guess

In what? Madden 2010?

summerdenver
05-15-2009, 10:13 PM
Everything Brees has accomplished, particularly in the past two years, says that it's not.

You are entitled to your opinion but watch what happens when someone forces him to stay in the pocket.

Btw, I am not saying Brees is bad but I would take Big Ben over him. I would actually take Ben over anyone but Brady and Peyton Manning. I understand that Big Ben holds on to the ball and it leads to negative plays. This style only workd if can make 2/3 big plays per gamewhen he is holding onto the ball. However, I am becoming a beleiver now - he keeps making these big plays even against tough defenses like Bal and Dal.

FireFly
05-15-2009, 10:32 PM
Contrary to popular opinion, I actually like how high Palmer is rated. On a better team, he could be the best in the league in any given year imo.

Injuries have plagued him lately, as has a cr#ppy environment, b****ing recievers and often sub standed coaching. Almost as much as Manning is the colts, Palmer is the only bright spot for the Bengals really.

He is a real leader. Even in the face of adversity and defeat he gives 100% while the entire team around him crumbles and gives up.

Ironlung
05-15-2009, 11:26 PM
Worked out pretty good with Trent Green.



In what? Madden 2010?

Yep. Thank god for Trent Green. He left a pile of Lombardi's in KC. Anyways...Trent had been a starter before kc.

footstepsfrom#27
05-16-2009, 12:02 AM
beat me to it.

I mean, look how taking other teams backups has worked for the chiefs up until now. Elvis Grbac and Steve Bono, in their defense I guess they atleast started games between high school and the nfl.
That's not the best argument to make on Cassel since he sat behind two Heisman winners at USC.

Popps
05-16-2009, 12:28 AM
We're talking about pure talent.

Dude, honestly... what would a chiefs fan know about QB talent?

You haven't had a QB worth a **** in your pathetic lifetime.

BroncoMan4ever
05-16-2009, 01:33 AM
Disagree. Pennington has a much weaker arm. Schaub's is nothing to write home about, either.

And Cassel wins the mobility contest by a mile.

Pennington is a never-was has-been. Schaub has pretty much been a huge disappointment in Houston.

At least Cassel hasn't failed just yet.

do you watch football, or just act like you know what you are talking about?

Pennington doesn't have the NFL arm, but he is accurate, makes good reads, and is a very good pro QB. he is never going to be a pro bowler, or mentioned as elite, but he is a solid QB that a few teams at least would be very happy to have.

Schaub when he is not injured can be as good as almost any QB on that list.

Cassel, what did he do that is so special that you think he deserves to be ranked ahead of these guys let alone in the top 20 at all?

McDaniels put him in basically a spread offense, and told him not to **** up. he took more sacks than anyone else in the league, he hangs onto the ball too long, but looked better than he actually was, because he played for a team that could put a monkey with good accuracy in at QB and win 10 games.

BroncoMan4ever
05-16-2009, 01:34 AM
And he will never, ever win a Super Bowl.

Cassel will never win a playoff game for the Chiefs.

BroncoBuff
05-16-2009, 02:20 AM
Cassel > Pennington, Campbell, Schaub

Personally I'd take him over Delhomme, too. That guy is about at the end of his rope.

Hilarious how self-serving your rankings are LOL

Aaron Rodgers should be higher, I think Ben is overrated, always have.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-16-2009, 05:13 AM
Hilarious how self-serving your rankings are LOL


How is bumping up Cassel a few spots self-serving?

If it were self-serving I'd be homering out of control and putting him in the top 10.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-16-2009, 05:13 AM
Cassel will never win a playoff game for the Chiefs.

This is the most retarded statement of the offseason. HTF do you know? The guy has 10 years ahead of him.

Drek
05-16-2009, 05:39 AM
This thread is great. Its like an advertisement for people who don't know **** to come in and spout off.

Just an FYI, but Chad Pennington is a top 10 QB in the league, especially by this list's criteria outlined in the first paragraph. But just from a statistical standpoint, the guy has a career 90.6 QB rating, a 101-62 TD to INT ratio, and he's currently the holder of the highest completion percentage in NFL history. He wins football games and he gets teams into the playoffs. He's everything a QB is supposed to be in this league.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-16-2009, 05:49 AM
This thread is great. Its like an advertisement for people who don't know **** to come in and spout off.

Just an FYI, but Chad Pennington is a top 10 QB in the league, especially by this list's criteria outlined in the first paragraph. But just from a statistical standpoint, the guy has a career 90.6 QB rating, a 101-62 TD to INT ratio, and he's currently the holder of the highest completion percentage in NFL history. He wins football games and he gets teams into the playoffs. He's everything a QB is supposed to be in this league.

And he'll be retired in two or three years.

And he'll get beat by the Tom Bradys and Peyton Mannings of the world 90 percent of the time.

No thanks.

BroncoBuff
05-16-2009, 07:16 AM
And he'll be retired in two or three years.
That is not one of the criteria.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-16-2009, 07:33 AM
That is not one of the criteria.

It is to me.

Bronco Rob
05-16-2009, 08:32 AM
Cassel will never win a playoff game for the Chiefs.


This is the most retarded statement of the offseason. HTF do you know? The guy has 10 years ahead of him.


Kansas City Chiefs vs Houston Oilers - January 16, 1994

Yup 16 seasons..

No playoff victories in Kansas City..

Heck the last team kc beat doesn't even exist anymore


BOB try winning more than TWO REGULAR SEASON GAMES before you say the word playoff...

Deal?

Bob's your Information Minister
05-16-2009, 08:43 AM
Chiefs have made the playoffs more recently than the Broncos.

Deal?

Bronco Rob
05-16-2009, 08:59 AM
Chiefs have made the playoffs more recently than the Broncos.

Deal?


Broncos last playoff victory 2006

Kansas City 1994

Feel free to do the math...




:thumbs:

Cito Pelon
05-16-2009, 09:17 AM
It never ceases to amaze me how Bob suckers people into replying.

It's like watching the 'what's the most annoying sound in the world' bit from Dumb and Dumber over and over and over and over.

400HZ
05-16-2009, 11:50 AM
You guys are cool with Cutler being outside of the top 5 now? :sunshine:

TonyR
05-16-2009, 12:11 PM
You guys are cool with Cutler being outside of the top 5 now?

I'm not aware that he was ever in the top 5...

boltaneer
05-16-2009, 12:37 PM
My bold prediction is that Cassel won't be the starting QB by the end of the season.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-16-2009, 01:29 PM
My bold prediction is that Cassel won't be the starting QB by the end of the season.

ROFL!

You must not have a very high opinion of Pioli...

Bronco Rob
05-16-2009, 02:41 PM
ROFL!

You must not have a very high opinion of Pioli...


Pioli plays QB?


Over/Under on Thigpen takin the reigns?






Ha!

Cito Pelon
05-16-2009, 07:32 PM
Pioli plays QB?


Over/Under on Thigpen takin the reigns?






Ha!

I thought Cassell showed some good potential last year. Often, all it takes is for a QB to get a chance. Just look at Brady - if Bledsoe would have stayed healthy Brady would have had to wait to start. But Thigpen was surprising also once he got his chance.

Cito Pelon
05-16-2009, 07:44 PM
Juggling that same list, no additions or subtractions, and if one were to plug each one onto the same team, I'll speculate this:

Peyton
Rodgers
Rivers
Brady
Roth
Brees
Romo
Ryan
Warner
Eli
Cutler
Chad
Hasselbeck
McNabb
Palmer
Schaub
Cassell
Campbell
Delhomme
Flacco

Orton, he'd be around 15.

Bob's your Information Minister
05-16-2009, 08:02 PM
What the **** is anyone doing taking Pennington over McNabb?

Bronco Rob
05-17-2009, 10:59 AM
I thought Cassell showed some good potential last year. Often, all it takes is for a QB to get a chance. Just look at Brady - if Bledsoe would have stayed healthy Brady would have had to wait to start. But Thigpen was surprising also once he got his chance.



Cassel was swiming in a sea of probowlers in NE. In KC the only probowler was traded....






:wiggle:

TheReverend
05-17-2009, 11:05 AM
Juggling that same list, no additions or subtractions, and if one were to plug each one onto the same team, I'll speculate this:

Peyton
Rodgers
Rivers
Brady
Roth
Brees
Romo
Ryan
Warner
Eli
Cutler
Chad
Hasselbeck
McNabb
Palmer
Schaub
Cassell
Campbell
Delhomme
Flacco

Orton, he'd be around 15.

That's not in order is it? If so, Rodgers at #2...?

montrose
05-17-2009, 11:39 AM
My rough list:

1) Brady
2) P.Manning
3) Warner
4) Rivers
5) Brees
6) Roethlisberger
7) McNabb
8) E. Manning
9) Rodgers
10) Palmer
11) Hasselbeck
12) Ryan
13) Cutler
14) Romo
15) Cassel
16) Flacco
17) Pennington
18) Edwards
19) Shaub
20) Delhomme

KCStud
05-17-2009, 11:46 AM
Dude, honestly... what would a chiefs fan know about QB talent?

You haven't had a QB worth a **** in your pathetic lifetime.

Trent Green was a hell of a QB who had 4,000 + yards passing and stats close to Manning's for 3 years straight.

And yes, he was better than Plummer.

KCStud
05-17-2009, 11:48 AM
Cassel will never win a playoff game for the Chiefs.

As Orton will never win a playoff game for the Broncos

KCStud
05-17-2009, 11:48 AM
Cassel was swiming in a sea of probowlers in NE. In KC the only probowler was traded....






:wiggle:

Ever heard of Brian Waters?

KCStud
05-17-2009, 11:49 AM
My bold prediction is that Cassel won't be the starting QB by the end of the season.

LT will still decline and Marry-man is nothing without the juice

Bob's your Information Minister
05-17-2009, 11:53 AM
My rough list:

1) Brady
2) P.Manning
3) Warner
4) Rivers
5) Brees
6) Roethlisberger
7) McNabb
8) E. Manning
9) Rodgers
10) Palmer
11) Hasselbeck
12) Ryan
13) Cutler
14) Romo
15) Cassel
16) Flacco
17) Pennington
18) Edwards
19) Shaub
20) Delhomme

See, I actually agree with this list. Now call me a homer.

Miss I.
05-17-2009, 11:54 AM
Ever heard of Brian Waters?

yep, but what's going on with this situation:
Apr 19, 2009 Subscribe
News: Waters did not participate in Saturday's voluntary minicamp practices, the Kansas City Star reports. Impact: Waters reportedly feels disrespected by the new regime in Kansas City and has asked to be released or traded. The team said in February he will not be released, and a trade seems unlikely at this point.(RotoWire, 7:34AM)
Sat. Apr 18, 2009
News: Brian Waters is absent from the start of today's minicamp, according to the Kansas City Star. Impact: Waters previously indicated that he is not happy with the Chiefs. The club cannot afford to lose him, as he is currently the only solid starter along their offensive line. (Fanball, 1:40PM)

KCStud
05-17-2009, 11:55 AM
My rough list:

1) Brady
2) P.Manning
3) Warner
4) Rivers
5) Brees
6) Roethlisberger
7) McNabb
8) E. Manning
9) Rodgers
10) Palmer
11) Hasselbeck
12) Ryan
13) Cutler
14) Romo
15) Cassel
16) Flacco
17) Pennington
18) Edwards
19) Shaub
20) Delhomme

I agree with this list, though as of right now I would move Flacco up over Cassel and Romo due to his success in the playoffs.

KCStud
05-17-2009, 11:57 AM
yep, but what's going on with this situation:
Apr 19, 2009 Subscribe
News: Waters did not participate in Saturday's voluntary minicamp practices, the Kansas City Star reports. Impact: Waters reportedly feels disrespected by the new regime in Kansas City and has asked to be released or traded. The team said in February he will not be released, and a trade seems unlikely at this point.(RotoWire, 7:34AM)
Sat. Apr 18, 2009
News: Brian Waters is absent from the start of today's minicamp, according to the Kansas City Star. Impact: Waters previously indicated that he is not happy with the Chiefs. The club cannot afford to lose him, as he is currently the only solid starter along their offensive line. (Fanball, 1:40PM)

In February Fatlock said Waters wanted out. I honestly don't believe him because if it was true, than ESPN, Fox Sports, SI or NFL Network would have reported something.

As of right now he is on the team though

Miss I.
05-17-2009, 11:58 AM
Trent Green was a hell of a QB who had 4,000 + yards passing and stats close to Manning's for 3 years straight.

And yes, he was better than Plummer.

Trent had some great stats, no doubt, and had skills perhaps Plummer did not, but let me ask how many playoffs did Trent lead any of his teams to? Stats are great, but victories are better. I couldn't care less about the QB's personal stats if he's delivering victories and making plays in key situations. In the end neither of these guys delivered the superbowl dream.

KCStud
05-17-2009, 12:01 PM
Trent had some great stats, no doubt, and had skills perhaps Plummer did not, but let me ask how many playoffs did Trent lead any of his teams to? Stats are great, but victories are better. I couldn't care less about the QB's personal stats if he's delivering victories and making plays in key situations. In the end neither of these guys delivered the superbowl dream.

Bailey and your defense were the one's who lead the team to the win against the Patriots. Plummer was horrible in the playoffs. He single-handedly ruined your teams chance to get to the SB and at home no less.

Neither proved to take their team far enough, but now that they are retired, Green is the one with the SB ring :~ohyah!:

Bronco Rob
05-17-2009, 12:04 PM
Trent Green was a hell of a QB who had 4,000 + yards passing and stats close to Manning's for 3 years straight.

And yes, he was better than Plummer.


Uh how many playoff games did the chefs win with trINT Green at the helm?


Oh ya...ZERO!





^5

Miss I.
05-17-2009, 12:08 PM
Bailey and your defense were the one's who lead the team to the win against the Patriots. Plummer was horrible in the playoffs. He single-handedly ruined your teams chance to get to the SB and at home no less.

Neither proved to take their team far enough, but now that they are retired, Green is the one with the SB ring :~ohyah!:

Yes, he does have one, I believe courtesy of Kurt Warner. So to use that logic his backup, who incidently salvaged the season when Trent was out of commision, Damon Huard is better then both of them because he has 2 rings (courtesy of being Tom Brady's back up in New England...hmm KC sure likes them Patriot backup QBs). Neither having a ring or getting great personal stats makes a QB unless those stats contributed heavily to getting the said ring for the team.

bowtown
05-17-2009, 12:08 PM
1. Kyle Orton
2. Chris Simms





3. Peyton Manning
4. Tom Brady




5. Tom Brandstater







Everyone Else












Jay Cutler

KCStud
05-17-2009, 12:13 PM
Uh how many playoff games did the chefs win with trINT Green at the helm?


Oh ya...ZERO!





^5

Just be thankful that Plummer didn't lose your team that game. Oh well his true form showed the next week with his stellar 5 INT performance against the Steelers. Did I mention that was in Denver !Booya!

Bronx33
05-17-2009, 12:13 PM
Chiefs have made the playoffs more recently than the Broncos.

Deal?


It was a gift from us so you could be slaughtered instead of us.

Miss I.
05-17-2009, 12:20 PM
Just be thankful that Plummer didn't lose your team that game. Oh well his true form showed the next week with his stellar 5 INT performance against the Steelers. Did I mention that was in Denver !Booya!
Actually, I thought he had 7 Int, but I could be wrong. Yes that sucked, but that game was not lost by Plummer alone (though certainly he was playing quite poorly). Our Defense gave it up to and for once let's give credit where its due, the Steelers are a difficult team to play against, particularly their defense. The Steelers won that game as much as we lost it, probably more. Just like NYG Defense won the SB for them. Why does this shock anyone?

As for Bob and the "we went to the playoffs more recently" thing so what? Technically the Raiders were the last of the AFC west to be in a Superbowl, let's have them brag about it. KFC backed into a playoff spot they never should have had and were subsequently slaughtered in the first round. When's the last time KC won the division? won a playoff game?

Bronco Rob
05-17-2009, 12:43 PM
Just be thankful that Plummer didn't lose your team that game. Oh well his true form showed the next week with his stellar 5 INT performance against the Steelers. Did I mention that was in Denver !Booya!


Just be thankful the last playoff game the chefs won was in January of 1994.

Wait...

That's 16 seasons ago.........ROFL!

montrose
05-17-2009, 12:45 PM
I agree with this list, though as of right now I would move Flacco up over Cassel and Romo due to his success in the playoffs.

I thought about it, although that's a hell of a defense Flacco's got. When it came down to it, I just asked myself who I'd rather have as my QB and that's how I ordered my list.

KCStud
05-17-2009, 12:46 PM
Just be thankful the last playoff game the chefs won was in January of 1994.

Wait...

That's 16 seasons ago.........ROFL!

Is that all you have? Broncos are barely any better. ONE playoff win and multiple blowouts in 11 years isn't any better.

But keep looking to the 1998 season for justification...

Bronx33
05-17-2009, 12:48 PM
Is that all you have? Broncos are barely any better. ONE playoff win and multiple blowouts in 11 years isn't any better.

But keep looking to the 1998 season for justification...


Well if you could reference one superbowl win by your team in the last 10 years you would be looking it up too so shut your yap until your team can support any argument too prove otherwise. :kiss:

KCStud
05-17-2009, 12:52 PM
Is that all you have? Broncos are barely any better. ONE playoff win and multiple blowouts in 11 years isn't any better.

But keep looking to the 1998 season for justification...


Well if you could reference one superbowl win by your team in the last 10 years you would be looking it up too so shut your yap until your team can support any argument too prove otherwise. :kiss:

Here's an argument to support.

KC 0 playoff wins this decade
Broncos 1 playoff win this decade

Not a big difference there champ. You going to beat your chest about one playoff win?

Bronx33
05-17-2009, 12:55 PM
[QUOTE=Bronx33;2419055]

Here's an argument to support.

KC 0 playoff wins this decade
Broncos 1 playoff win this decade

Not a big difference there champ. You going to beat your chest about one playoff win?



2 superbowls, now shut up.

KCStud
05-17-2009, 01:05 PM
[QUOTE=KCStud;2419058]



2 superbowls, now shut up.

LMAO reading comprehension is not your style huh? "This decade" was the argument.

But while you're at it, since superbowls mean everything, I guess Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and Tom Brady are better QB's than John Elway.

Bronco Rob
05-17-2009, 01:34 PM
Kansas City Chefs

6 Wins in two seasons

Last playoff victory 16 seasons ago

Last Superbowl apperance 40 years ago....

Not Good.






:thumbs:

DHallblows
05-17-2009, 01:39 PM
LMAO reading comprehension is not your style huh? "This decade" was the argument.

But while you're at it, since superbowls mean everything, I guess Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw and Tom Brady are better QB's than John Elway.

May wanna add a "superbowl wins" into that one or you're arguing against yourself...

bandwagonjumper
05-17-2009, 01:39 PM
Top 20 qb doesn't make sense to me. There are only 32 startin qb. It would be more fun the top 10 worst starting qbs.

Bronx33
05-17-2009, 01:45 PM
Top 20 qb doesn't make sense to me. There are only 32 startin qb. It would be more fun the top 10 worst starting qbs.


That's a top 10 worst user name man.

Ironlung
05-17-2009, 02:02 PM
Kansas City Chefs

6 Wins in two seasons

Last playoff victory 16 seasons ago

Last Superbowl apperance 40 years ago....

Not Good.






:thumbs:
yep...thats rather pathetic, and laughable.
:rofl:

KCStud
05-17-2009, 02:56 PM
Kansas City Chefs

6 Wins in two seasons

Last playoff victory 16 seasons ago

Last Superbowl apperance 40 years ago....

Not Good.






:thumbs:

Denver Broncos

No playoffs since 2006

Blew 3 game division lead in the last month of the season

1 playoff win and 3 embarassing losses by double digits (one at home to go to the superbowl) since Elway retired

2-4 in SB's (all losse's were blowouts)

Tell me how much better the Broncos are than the Chiefs? And here's a better question. What do the 1998 Broncos have to do with the Broncos of today?

Your team has been below average and will continue to be below average this season.
Since you hide behind the SB wins over 10 years ago, I suggest you watch this video all season long when your team doesn't make it to the postseason again.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KYVDWK64L._SS500_.jpg

Bronx33
05-17-2009, 03:06 PM
Denver Broncos

No playoffs since 2006

Blew 3 game division lead in the last month of the season

1 playoff win and 3 embarassing losses by double digits (one at home to go to the superbowl) since Elway retired

2-4 in SB's (all losse's were blowouts)

Tell me how much better the Broncos are than the Chiefs? And here's a better question. What do the 1998 Broncos have to do with the Broncos of today?

Your team has been below average and will continue to be below average this season.
Since you hide behind the SB wins over 10 years ago, I suggest you watch this video all season long when your team doesn't make it to the postseason again.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KYVDWK64L._SS500_.jpg


I sense hostility is it the lack of winning that has your twat all tensed up?

Bronco Rob
05-17-2009, 03:10 PM
I sense hostility is it the lack of winning that has your twat all tensed up?


Four decades of abject failure seems to have that effect on chef fans.











:~ohyah!:

Ironlung
05-17-2009, 03:31 PM
Denver Broncos

No playoffs since 2006

Blew 3 game division lead in the last month of the season

1 playoff win and 3 embarassing losses by double digits (one at home to go to the superbowl) since Elway retired

2-4 in SB's (all losse's were blowouts)

Tell me how much better the Broncos are than the Chiefs? And here's a better question. What do the 1998 Broncos have to do with the Broncos of today?

Your team has been below average and will continue to be below average this season.
Since you hide behind the SB wins over 10 years ago, I suggest you watch this video all season long when your team doesn't make it to the postseason again.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KYVDWK64L._SS500_.jpg
We've watched our team win the Super Bowl in our lifetime...twice...in a row. I'm pretty sure thats what ITS ALL ABOUT! f'n mullet

Inkana7
05-17-2009, 04:20 PM
I doubt the kid's parents were old enough to see Len Dawson hoist the Lombardi. A pity, really.

KCStud
05-17-2009, 04:46 PM
I sense hostility is it the lack of winning that has your twat all tensed up?

I speak the truth. Nothing more. I find it hillarious just how many bandwagon fans there are. When Cutler was here, this board was sucking his wood. He was an elite QB. Now that he's out, he is an overrated prick.
Now there is a thread on this board about Orton being an upgrade? :rofl:
Threads like those turn this place into comedy hour central

LostPines
05-17-2009, 06:10 PM
Haha.. Oh man.. when he was bronco I would considered him top 5 but right now I dont feel the same.. Werids how Loyalist can be tricked.. Who gives Fcuk if I am drunk!

TonyR
05-17-2009, 07:37 PM
Tell me how much better the Broncos are than the Chiefs?

Your team has won a combined 6 games over the last two seasons. Denver has won 15. You do the math, genius.

KCStud
05-17-2009, 08:18 PM
Your team has won a combined 6 games over the last two seasons. Denver has won 15. You do the math, genius.

Ya and the sad thing is one of the two games KC won last year was against your team. Now what does that say? While we're on the subject, how about you tell me what your team did with those 15 wins? I'll give you a sec to think about it....



























Answer: You sat at home just like the Chiefs and watched the playoffs

TonyR
05-18-2009, 07:06 AM
Answer: You sat at home just like the Chiefs and watched the playoffs

I'm not aware that I was arguing about a playoff berth. I'm well aware that neither team made it. Your point, I think, is that the Chiefs are as good as the Broncos. Which is just stupid. The Chiefs have been among the worst teams in the league the last two seasons, the Broncos have been a middle of the pack team. Your argument is about as strong as your team.

Bronco Rob
05-18-2009, 09:27 AM
Denver Broncos

No playoffs since 2006


Kansas city Chefs 3 playoff wins in 40 years.










Hilarious!

Inkana7
05-18-2009, 11:26 AM
Ya and the sad thing is one of the two games KC won last year was against your team. Now what does that say? While we're on the subject, how about you tell me what your team did with those 15 wins? I'll give you a sec to think about it....




















Answer: You sat at home just like the Chiefs and watched the playoffs

So did the Patriots. I supposed the Cheifs are just as good as them, too?

KCStud
05-18-2009, 06:29 PM
So did the Patriots. I supposed the Cheifs are just as good as them, too?

Never said KC was as good as the Patriots. The point is that you laughable fans say that Denver is so much better than us, but yet you can't even make the playoffs. :rofl:

Bronco Boy
05-18-2009, 08:08 PM
There were more or less 15 teams better than the Chiefs that didn't make the playoffs.

Ironlung
05-18-2009, 08:09 PM
No, the point is.....The goal of NFL teams is to win the Super Bowl. We have seen our favorite team do this twice in a row. Have you? Next, the 0-16 Lions have more wins in the last two years than your team. Thats pathetic, the Broncos may not be a good team, but they're not on the pathetic level...................like your team.

80smith
05-18-2009, 08:11 PM
Never said KC was as good as the Patriots. The point is that you laughable fans say that Denver is so much better than us, but yet you can't even make the playoffs. :rofl:

ROFL! ROFL! LOL LOL :clown: ROFL! ROFL! LOL LOL

80smith
05-18-2009, 08:13 PM
Never said KC was as good as the Patriots. The point is that you laughable fans say that Denver is so much better than us, but yet you can't even make the playoffs. :rofl:

Why can't I stop laughing........................LOL ROFL!

80smith
05-18-2009, 08:43 PM
Never said KC was as good as the Patriots. The point is that you laughable fans say that Denver is so much better than us, but yet you can't even make the playoffs. :rofl:

Oh Good times........Hilarious! Hilarious!

Bronco Rob
05-19-2009, 06:55 AM
Never said KC was as good as the Patriots. The point is that you laughable fans say that Denver is so much better than us, but yet you can't even make the playoffs. :rofl:


KC hasn't sniffed a Lombardi in 40 years....

28 NFL teams have made the Superbowl since the chefs...

KC sucks...

Deal with it...




:curtsey:

Bronco Boy
05-19-2009, 08:31 AM
They have good BBQ there though.

Inkana7
05-19-2009, 09:50 AM
Never said KC was as good as the Patriots. The point is that you laughable fans say that Denver is so much better than us, but yet you can't even make the playoffs. :rofl:

And neither could the Pats last year.

KCStud
05-19-2009, 10:49 AM
KC hasn't sniffed a Lombardi in 40 years....

28 NFL teams have made the Superbowl since the chefs...

KC sucks...

Deal with it...




:curtsey:

Yawn...keep making fun of KC to hide your own teams failures in the post Elway era. Have fun watching the 98 season when your team is below average...again ROFL!

fdf
05-19-2009, 10:56 AM
Top 20 qb doesn't make sense to me. There are only 32 startin qb. It would be more fun the top 10 worst starting qbs.

OK. The official OrangeMane McPoopyHead list of the ten worst starting NFL quarterbacks is:

1. Kyle Orton
2. Kyle Orton
3. Kyle Orton
4. Kyle Orton
5. Kyle Orton
6. Kyle Orton
7. Kyle Orton
8. Kyle Orton
9. Kyle Orton
10. Kyle Orton

gyldenlove
05-19-2009, 11:26 AM
OK. The official OrangeMane McPoopyHead list of the ten worst starting NFL quarterbacks is:

1. Kyle Orton
2. Kyle Orton
3. Kyle Orton
4. Kyle Orton
5. Kyle Orton
6. Kyle Orton
7. Kyle Orton
8. Kyle Orton
9. Kyle Orton
10. Kyle Orton

I believe you left out Kyle Orton.

Bronco Rob
05-19-2009, 11:31 AM
Yawn...keep making fun of KC to hide your own teams failures in the post Elway era. Have fun watching the 98 season when your team is below average...again ROFL!



Is winning 6 games in 2 seasons below average?

Is not winning a playoff game in 16 seasons below average?

Is the Chefs 2008 season beginning with a 1-10 record, with the franchise losing 20 of 21 games over a two-year period below average?



Inquiring minds want to know......ROFL!

Tombstone RJ
05-19-2009, 12:17 PM
KCStud has great posting irony. He is making fun of Broncos fans because our team has not been to the playoffs since 06 and has been the epitome of mediocre. All the while the chefs have been horrid since Vermiel left. So his argument is somthing along the lines of "The Broncos suck just as much and the chefs, so there losers!"

Nice argument. Ironic that you feel so good not because your team is any good, but because the Broncos are restructuring.

It really must suck the be a chefs fan...

Bronco Rob
05-19-2009, 12:22 PM
KCStud has great posting irony. He is making fun of Broncos fans because our team has not been to the playoffs since 06 and has been the epitome of mediocre. All the while the chefs have been horrid since Vermiel left. So his argument is somthing along the lines of "The Broncos suck just as much and the chefs, so there losers!"

Nice argument. Ironic that you feel so good not because your team is any good, but because the Broncos are restructuring.

It really must suck the be a chefs fan...


restructuring for the Broncos : Missing the playoffs by one game.


restructuring for the chefs : winning 6 games in two seasons...


:rofl:

Bronco Boy
05-19-2009, 02:25 PM
When was the last time KC had a good team in any sport? Their MLB and NFL teams have been horrible for awhile now.