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BroncosinDC
05-12-2009, 06:03 PM
This is a slow time for football news, so to stem my increasing boredom I've been trying to design some cool elements for a website for the new joint I'm going to help open in a month.

Is flash the best way to make a big impact with pictures when you first enter...ie like Elways http://elways.com/Downtown/Default.asp

Thanks, I only ask as I know a lot of you on here are into a lot of graphic design.

Rock Chalk
05-12-2009, 06:06 PM
This is a slow time for football news, so to stem my increasing boredom I've been trying to design some cool elements for a website for the new joint I'm going to help open in a month.

Is flash the best way to make a big impact with pictures when you first enter...ie like Elways http://elways.com/Downtown/Default.asp

Thanks, I only ask as I know a lot of you on here are into a lot of graphic design.

This is a debatable topic.

Flash if done properly, is a very effective tool in drawing an audience in. Flash as a splash screen is garbage and should be avoided at all costs.

And websites via word of mouth are going to take a LONG time to take off. Its just a bad idea in general.

If you are going to make a website that is to help promote a business you need to market, end of discussion. Use a flash header or menu but keep it simple and dont over do it.

BroncosinDC
05-12-2009, 06:32 PM
This is a debatable topic.

Flash if done properly, is a very effective tool in drawing an audience in. Flash as a splash screen is garbage and should be avoided at all costs.

And websites via word of mouth are going to take a LONG time to take off. Its just a bad idea in general.

If you are going to make a website that is to help promote a business you need to market, end of discussion. Use a flash header or menu but keep it simple and dont over do it.

Thanks, the website is not really a big aspect of generating business other than complimenting opentable.com 's revervation system and I'm bored because I have almost nothing to do for like 2 weeks so I feel like playing around with it. That and at my previous spot the website was done in word and that always annoyed me.

I'd much rather be working on pumping liquor reps for tickets to the Broncos v. Ravens but have always been kind of interested in web design.

Thanks

broncosteven
05-12-2009, 07:04 PM
Isn't there an issue with the way that Google catalogs flash? Shouldn't he make sure that everything he puts in flash is duplicated somewhere else on the page in HTML?

Anaximines
05-12-2009, 07:05 PM
I consider myself an amateurish web hobbyist and would recommend you look into CSS - I used to overuse flash and it took me forever to come around and finally get into it, but it's really the way to go for just about everything web design as far as I can tell. And it's really easy once you get going with it. You can do a lot with it beyond just layouts and configuration (what it seems to be best known for).

Check out this resource to see how it can be used for flash-type stuff (like you're talking about): http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menu/

Other potentially useful links, also encompassing design in general:
http://www.noupe.com/css/5-popular-css-frameworks-tutorials-tools-for-getting-started.html
http://www.smashingapps.com/2009/04/29/50-promising-collection-of-resources-and-inspirations-for-designers-to-discover-the-best-of-the-web-in-april.html
http://sixrevisions.com/css/30-exceptional-css-navigation-techniques/
http://www.dynamicdrive.com/style/
http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2009/04/27/the-mystery-of-css-sprites-techniques-tools-and-tutorials/

All of those links are from the design category on Digg (http://digg.com/design/popular/24hours) which all of the best stuff seems to bubble up through.

Keep us posted on what you come up with!

broncosteven
05-12-2009, 07:08 PM
Alec recommended a ****ing gay book: HTML and CSS published by sitepoint.

I recommend it also. Quick and easy to follow, I cranked out a new site for a friend in about 6 hours following the sitepoint book.

telluride
05-12-2009, 09:53 PM
BDC: Simpler is always better, of course. That said, your flash intro works well and is pretty unobtrusive. (How folks with older OSs and browsers see it, who knows....)

Here's a purely fun suggestion: turn the dotted lines and grid into football-style Xs and Os, as if you're scheming a play, then have it morph to the images. If you keep everything as fast and clean as it is now, but gave a wink to football, it could be very cool.

80smith
05-12-2009, 10:54 PM
Thanks, the website is not really a big aspect of generating business other than complimenting opentable.com 's revervation system and I'm bored because I have almost nothing to do for like 2 weeks so I feel like playing around with it. That and at my previous spot the website was done in word and that always annoyed me.

I'd much rather be working on pumping liquor reps for tickets to the Broncos v. Ravens but have always been kind of interested in web design.

Thanks

Leave it! This has nothing to do with flash. As a consumer, I go to this site to set a reservation. If you want to do something different, have the picture change. But this site is something that people "just click" on to to make reservations. They do not want to be "wowed!"

It pays The bills right?

BroncosinDC
05-13-2009, 12:22 AM
Leave it! This has nothing to do with flash. As a consumer, I go to this site to set a reservation. If you want to do something different, have the picture change. But this site is something that people "just click" on to to make reservations. They do not want to be "wowed!"

It pays The bills right?

We shall see I guess. My question being do you go to a few sites to see what they offer and then choose one? I would like to see a good website for this place to compliment the amazing food, and awesome drinks myself and my boy are creating, while working closely with my best friend and his boy doing the food (roommates at the CIA).

As a consumer if you take the time to look at a restaurants website...what do you expect? I do hope more members of the Mane answer this question as well. I only met a few of you last year but you were all great.

Also I thank you guys for the help I will look more in depth at it in the morning.

*edit for me being a spelling idiot*

broncosteven
05-13-2009, 10:42 AM
We shall see I guess. My question being do you go to a few sites to see what they offer and then choose one? I would like to see a good website for this place to compliment the amazing food, and awesome drinks myself and my boy are creating, while working closely with my best friend and his boy doing the food (roommates at the CIA).

As a consumer if you take the time to look at a restaurants website...what do you expect? I do hope more members of the Mane answer this question as well. I only met a few of you last year but you were all great.

Also I thank you guys for the help I will look more in depth at it in the morning.

*edit for me being a spelling idiot*

Hours, Menu, contacts. I did one for a small mom and pop place. I stayed in their budget and did what they wanted. They don't have internet access at the resturant so they didn't want the reservation option or email to go orders. Depends on what the place has.

bowtown
05-13-2009, 10:57 AM
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/a0qMe7Z3EYg&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/a0qMe7Z3EYg&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Rock Chalk
05-13-2009, 03:15 PM
Isn't there an issue with the way that Google catalogs flash? Shouldn't he make sure that everything he puts in flash is duplicated somewhere else on the page in HTML?

Sorta.

Depends on how the flash is done. If all the text is generated by the flash software, then search engines dont know what the hell is going on. All they see is a flash file. But if the flash file gets its text from an XML file then Google can index the XML file and at least get some information about what is in the flash file.

Flash is good for like image rotation headers and such, maybe a little video of something but its a REALLY bad idea to make a site in flash unless you are an advanced flash designer that knows how to send and retrieve textual data from XML files and know the ins and outs of search engines.

Most dont.

Designers in general, are a bunch of morons when it actually comes to what works on the web. They are artists not tech savvy geeks like us developers are.

Rock Chalk
05-13-2009, 03:28 PM
Alec recommended a ****ing gay book: HTML and CSS published by sitepoint.

I recommend it also. Quick and easy to follow, I cranked out a new site for a friend in about 6 hours following the sitepoint book.

You know, me and my contractor are constantly arguing about CSS. I love doing sites in CSS and tableless layouts but he doesnt. He does all his in tables. His argument, and its a good one, is that tables look the same on all browsers, there isnt a lot of fidgeting with the CSS document to get it to look the way you want it. He's right of course. Tables make it quick and easy to make a site.

The problem with tables is they are extremely messy in the code. Now he doesnt give a crap because he designs and doesnt have to maintain the damn site but I do give a crap, because I do have to maintain the site.

More importantly, its extra markup for search engines to sift through and by the time the real content is reached in a table layout, its importance is way at the bottom because Google thinks it is less important than the stuff it already went through which was almost all markup.


<table>
<tr>
<td colspan="2">Header Row</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>Left Column</td>
<td>Right Column</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2">Footer Row</td>
</tr>
</table>


Thats cumbersome for a 2 column layout.


<div id="header"></div>
<div id="leftcol"></div>
<div id="rightcol"</div>
<div id="footer"></div>


Less markup this way with your CSS file or header styles generating the layout structure in a separate file that changes the entire site. So much easier.