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View Full Version : OT--WI police can attach GPS to cars to track anybodys movements w/o warrant


broncofan7
05-11-2009, 03:27 PM
www.chicagotribune.com/technology/chi-ap-wi-gps-police,0,5867383.story (http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/chi-ap-wi-gps-police,0,5867383.story)

chicagotribune.com
Wisconsin court upholds GPS tracking by police
By RYAN J. FOLEY

Associated Press Writer

2:42 PM CDT, May 7, 2009

MADISON, Wis.

Wisconsin police can attach GPS to cars to secretly track anybody's movements without obtaining search warrants, an appeals court ruled Thursday.

However, the District 4 Court of Appeals said it was "more than a little troubled" by that conclusion and asked Wisconsin lawmakers to regulate GPS use to protect against abuse by police and private individuals.

As the law currently stands, the court said police can mount GPS on cars to track people without violating their constitutional rights -- even if the drivers aren't suspects.

Officers do not need to get warrants beforehand because GPS tracking does not involve a search or a seizure, Judge Paul Lundsten wrote for the unanimous three-judge panel based in Madison.

That means "police are seemingly free to secretly track anyone's public movements with a GPS device," he wrote.

see the rest by using the link.........

footstepsfrom#27
05-11-2009, 03:31 PM
Figures. Hopefully there's an SC appeal to follow.

watermock
05-11-2009, 03:42 PM
Jesus christ,

God thing my monitor doent have a webcam....

USDA is allready applying tracking devices to livestock.

Mountain Bronco
05-11-2009, 03:42 PM
Soon enough there will be mandatory tracking devices installed shortly after birth. Think I am kidding??????

Malcontent
05-11-2009, 03:43 PM
I am going to invent a device that scrambles the GPS devices and make millliiooonnnsss!!!!! Muahahaha!

Hotrod
05-11-2009, 03:48 PM
I think this is a great idea. If we are to become a true socialist state under Barry Obama this is a good step

Meck77
05-11-2009, 03:55 PM
I think this is a great idea. If we are to become a true socialist state under Barry Obama this is a good step

The DNC was a great first step for Denver. They blew a million on cameras. Somehow I don't think they were taken down either.

http://blogs.westword.com/demver/2008/08/dnc_security_cameras_brings_ne.php

cutthemdown
05-11-2009, 03:56 PM
This needs to be appealed all the way to the Supreme Court if it has to be.

broncofan7
05-11-2009, 03:57 PM
I am going to invent a device that scrambles the GPS devices and make millliiooonnnsss!!!!! Muahahaha!

or at the very least a 'GPS detector'.......

cutthemdown
05-11-2009, 03:58 PM
I am going to invent a device that scrambles the GPS devices and make millliiooonnnsss!!!!! Muahahaha!

Great idea, but how about this instead.

If you go to strip club = GPS says you went to church
If you go to bar= Gps says you went to the Library
If you go to lovers home = Says you went to museum of art

and so on and so on.

That way it works on wives and girlfriends as well.

BroncoBuff
05-11-2009, 04:09 PM
It'll never pass Fourth Amendment muster ... maybe in Wisconsin courts, but not any federal Court of Appeals.

The state will try the "plain view" exception to unreasonable search probably ... but even if that works, what about if you drive onto private property? The police will have to "turn off" the GPS when a car enters private property? No way this survoves the federal courts.


Although .... this is the same place where the original crazy-expansion of the Commerce Clause to regulate interstate commerece was accomplished, even if you're growing wheat on your own farm for your own consumption ... the Wickard case in the 40s was about a Wisconisn farmer.

So I guess Wisconsin might be just the right place to restrict Fourth Amendment protections.

Los Broncos
05-11-2009, 04:17 PM
I person I know is a sex offender, they have him locked down wherever he goes.

Its kind of sad really, he cant go home because he is to close to a school.

Cant go to bars, they track his every move.

OBF1
05-11-2009, 04:27 PM
Stay out of trouble and no big deal... Maybe I need to start getting into trouble.

OABB
05-11-2009, 04:30 PM
I think this is a great idea. If we are to become a true socialist state under Barry Obama this is a good step

remember when he started wire-tapping our phone calls a few years back? WHat a commie!

BroncoLifer
05-11-2009, 04:31 PM
I person I know is a sex offender...

That's how far I read before I lost sympathy for him.

sisterhellfyre
05-11-2009, 04:31 PM
Wisconsin police can attach GPS to cars to secretly track anybody's movements without obtaining search warrants, an appeals court ruled Thursday.

So... um... what's the big deal on this one?

Even at our current state of technology, more and more cellphones include GPS chips. The police can already tap into those and track within a few feet where the phone has gone, by what route, and at what speed. Just a few weeks ago, also in Wisconsin, police used a GPS-enabled cellphone to track down and locate someone who was drunk and lost.

Denver's 911 info, on the city government site, says this: "Wireless Phase II, in effect now, requires carriers to provide far more precise location information - within 50 to 300 meters (approximately 170 to 1000 feet). The cell phone vendors have different methods in which the cellular phone handset can provide the latitude and longitude for the caller, either through triangulation, GPS or a hybrid of the two." This is not a local requirement: it's mandate from the FCC.

As far back as December 2006, there were reports that the FBI had found ways to turn on cellphone microphones to use them as eavesdropping bugs. Just as an "oh by the way," this technique was ruled legal by a US Superior Court judge in New York.

This report out of Wisconsin isn't really "news" at all, except that it's a different application of what the various authorities are already doing. If you think they can't get or don't have access to all the information they want about all of us, you're kidding yourself.

Broncojef
05-11-2009, 04:36 PM
I think this is a great idea. If we are to become a true socialist state under Barry Obama this is a good step

Our rights have been erroding for some time now, really quite disturbing.

STBumpkin
05-11-2009, 04:37 PM
It'll never pass Fourth Amendment muster ... maybe in Wisconsin courts, but not any federal Court of Appeals.

The state will try the "plain view" exception to unreasonable search probably ... but even if that works, what about if you drive onto private property? The police will have to "turn off" the GPS when a car enters private property? No way this survoves the federal courts.


Although .... this is the same place where the original crazy-expansion of the Commerce Clause to regulate interstate commerece was accomplished, even if you're growing wheat on your own farm for your own consumption ... the Wickard case in the 40s was about a Wisconisn farmer.

So I guess Wisconsin might be just the right place to restrict Fourth Amendment protections.

Private property is still plain sight. A police helicopter can fly over a compound without violating the letter of the law. I'm not saying it's right, but it's not illegal.

STBumpkin
05-11-2009, 04:40 PM
So... um... what's the big deal on this one?

Even at our current state of technology, more and more cellphones include GPS chips. The police can already tap into those and track within a few feet where the phone has gone, by what route, and at what speed. Just a few weeks ago, also in Wisconsin, police used a GPS-enabled cellphone to track down and locate someone who was drunk and lost.

Denver's 911 info, on the city government site, says this: "Wireless Phase II, in effect now, requires carriers to provide far more precise location information - within 50 to 300 meters (approximately 170 to 1000 feet). The cell phone vendors have different methods in which the cellular phone handset can provide the latitude and longitude for the caller, either through triangulation, GPS or a hybrid of the two." This is not a local requirement: it's mandate from the FCC.

As far back as December 2006, there were reports that the FBI had found ways to turn on cellphone microphones to use them as eavesdropping bugs. Just as an "oh by the way," this technique was ruled legal by a US Superior Court judge in New York.

This report out of Wisconsin isn't really "news" at all, except that it's a different application of what the various authorities are already doing. If you think they can't get or don't have access to all the information they want about all of us, you're kidding yourself.

Agreed, The chinese do this to us (military+?)too. We have to leave phones out of any of our tactical flight simulators as well as any spaces where we talk tactics or strategy because they can turn them on.

Meck77
05-11-2009, 04:40 PM
Our rights have been erroding for some time now, really quite disturbing.

No doubt about it.

Oh but we love to b**** about our rights on messageboards! Only problem is they are debated in our State Capitals. Oh by the way it's pretty rare to see average citizens at our state capital in Co. It's full of paid lobbyists though.

Bottom line is we only have ourselves to blame for our rights disappearing.

Hotrod
05-11-2009, 04:45 PM
That's how far I read before I lost sympathy for him.

Most likely but you can get labeled a sex offender for life for getting drunk in college and peeing in public.

We need more info

Los Broncos
05-11-2009, 04:52 PM
That's how far I read before I lost sympathy for him.

Same here, I mean at first I felt bad when it all happend.

But hearing him bitch and bitch about how they treated him in prison and now out in the world.

He did it to himself, the only part that really sucks is his kids, cant always be there with them.

But cheating in your wife with another woman and raping her gets no sympathy from me.

Florida_Bronco
05-11-2009, 04:59 PM
This needs to be appealed all the way to the Supreme Court if it has to be.

I agree.

Inkana7
05-11-2009, 05:02 PM
Wisconsin, really? They usually hold personal freedoms and such in higher regard. They are the home of Fightin' Bob, after all.

Pontius Pirate
05-11-2009, 05:17 PM
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/funny-pictures-cat-has-set-a-trap.jpg

elsid13
05-11-2009, 05:40 PM
There is something missing in that article. Because the original case cited the police did obtain a warrant to install the device, and then you state appellate court ruling saying that no warrant was needed. There more to this story then what was reported.

broncosteven
05-11-2009, 06:08 PM
Our rights have been erroding for some time now, really quite disturbing.

Anyone see Dick Cheny on Face the Nation talking about Obama repealing waterboarding and the other crap that the Bush regime pushed through.

He said it was Ok to do because they did it to our people too, when training the trainers. I am guessing a trainer didn't get the same treatment as a guy who has withheld info long enough to get to the waterboarding phase!

BroncoBuff
05-11-2009, 06:56 PM
There is something missing in that article. Because the original case cited the police did obtain a warrant to install the device, and then you state appellate court ruling saying that no warrant was needed. There more to this story then what was reported.
If the police did obtain a warrant, then you're right, this sounds like a non-story. And even if the court held they didn't need a warrant, that's just dicta then. it has no authority, because they did not reach the issue. It's not a binding decision on any other court.

But maybe it's about the sufficiency of circumstances shown by law enforcement to permit a GPS device ... maybe the argument was that it's too invasive to permit under a garden-variety showing of probable cause ...

That's probably it ... if you're tracking a guy's car all over, wherever he goes, that does not "state with specificity the place to be searched," which is a requirement for law enforcement affidavits for PC. Yeah, that's probably it.

elsid13
05-11-2009, 07:05 PM
If the police did obtain a warrant, then you're right, this sounds like a non-story. And even if the court held they didn't need a warrant, that's just dicta then. it has no authority, because they did not reach the issue. It's not a binding decision on any other court.

But maybe it's about the sufficiency of circumstances shown by law enforcement to permit a GPS device ... maybe the argument was that it's too invasive to permit under a garden-variety showing of probable cause ...

That's probably it ... if you're tracking a guy's car all over, wherever he goes, that does not "state with specificity the place to be searched," which is a requirement for law enforcement affidavits for PC. Yeah, that's probably it.

I think the case (which the reporter failed to accurately describe) was not that the police placed the GPS on the car, but what is the definition of "reasonable" search.

Br0nc0Buster
05-12-2009, 12:02 AM
Most likely but you can get labeled a sex offender for life for getting drunk in college and peeing in public.

We need more info

Are you sure about this?
I talked to a cop in South Padre and asked him if you would get labeled as a sex offender for indecent exposure and he said "nah"

Br0nc0Buster
05-12-2009, 12:03 AM
I person I know is a sex offender, they have him locked down wherever he goes.

Its kind of sad really, he cant go home because he is to close to a school.

Cant go to bars, they track his every move.

I understand the school, but why cant a sex offender go to a bar?
And what would happen if he did?

alkemical
05-12-2009, 07:00 AM
Are you sure about this?
I talked to a cop in South Padre and asked him if you would get labeled as a sex offender for indecent exposure and he said "nah"

There's a case up here in PA where some kids (boys and girls) are being charged as sex offenders for sexting each other.

alkemical
05-12-2009, 07:35 AM
http://www.teamdroid.com/archives/2007/09/07/diy-gps-jammer/

http://teamdroid.com/UserFiles/Image/gps_jammer.jpg

Hackers listen up. Everyone understands and enjoys the utilitarian benefits that GPS has brought to our lives but what if it didnít work any more? I suppose you could build some sort of surface to space missile robot that would systematically seek and destroy all the GPS birds in orbit, but that might attract unwanted attention by the authorities. No, your best bet would be to build a little portable device that just affected a small area. That is exactly what this does. It works by blanketing the GPS L1 frequency (1475.42 MHz) with noise rendering the receiver unable to get an acquisition code. Without one of those it canít see any satellites. Pretty clever. Now, I have to say that I have no idea if this circuit is going to work, Iíll leave that up to you. I mean, itís from Phrack magazine after all so that makes it pretty hardcore. Use some common sense in the operation of this device. It might be best used as a conversation starter and thatís all.


http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/security/story/0,10801,77702,00.html

Homemade GPS jammers raise concerns

Beantown Bronco
05-12-2009, 08:00 AM
So... um... what's the big deal on this one?

Even at our current state of technology, more and more cellphones include GPS chips. The police can already tap into those and track within a few feet where the phone has gone, by what route, and at what speed.

The big deal is this: they need a warrant to access all of the above. They can't simply do it on a whim.

alkemical
05-12-2009, 08:17 AM
The big deal is this: they need a warrant to access all of the above. They can't simply do it on a whim.

You can always see above and take care of business yourself ;)

Los Broncos
05-12-2009, 08:27 AM
I understand the school, but why cant a sex offender go to a bar?
And what would happen if he did?

I think its the drinking, I guess they think if your drinking it increases the chance of you wanting sex.

And if he did, they would come down on his ass big time.

sisterhellfyre
05-12-2009, 10:26 AM
The big deal is this: they need a warrant to access all of the above. They can't simply do it on a whim.

Righty-o, Beantown, whims have no place in law enforcement. I think of another area where we were all supposed to buck up, show our patriotism, and trust that "the authorities" could be trusted with the power that we handed them: the so-called PATRIOT Act. In June '07, just after an FBI internal audit found that PATRIOT Act powers had been abused over 1,000 times, a judge ordered the FBI to turn over the records detailing how, why and what. And that's coming from an *internal* FBI audit, not anyone else getting after them! In March '08, it came to light that FBI officials tried to cover their tracks on those abuses by issuing retroactive subpoenas. Oops.

Do you still trust them to abide by the letter of any requirements for using these abilities?